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tv   MSNBC Live Post Debate  MSNBC  October 20, 2016 1:00am-2:01am PDT

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that particularly when he is not really organizing poll watchers to go to these places, he is creating in the minds of his supporters around the country this idea that there are these people in inner cities all over the country, and you know who they are, and they're the ones who are stealing the election from you good people out there. nixon did this beautifully all through the '60s. in 1966, the people of iowa chicago were going to come ransack the streets of iowa and steal farm kids from iowa. they had a racial paranoia they stoked for law and order and to collection the election. there is a tapestry of this, a way we have done it. trump, i think, has weaponized it. >> rachel, the problem is the republican party faces in the big cities, which tend to sort in liberals, not just african-americans or hispanic. people that live in big cities want to be in a diverse environment. they like the feel of it, the enrichment of it. we have 69 voting divisions in philadelphia that didn't get a
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single mitt romney vote, not a single one. that's not stealing vote. that's not having any. the voter i.d. law intimidates older people from going and getting an i.d. card from the department of transportation. it is difficult to get one. the leaders in pennsylvania said, we are glad we got this bill through, it will mean we can carry pennsylvania. they know what they're doing. it is not about voter fraud. it is voter intimidation. we all know that. >> chris, i'm looking at the spin room. i am seeing rick perry and wondering, for how many more cycles are we going to have spin rooms? what minds are being changed behind new that room tonight that were not made up at the closing bell? >> as i said, we're on airplane mode here in so many ways. everyone said tonight except trump's latest if i lose, i still didn't lose. it is all back to what we said
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before. i think the spin room has gotten a little tired. i think your critique is nobody is changing anybody's mind in the spin room. we get to the audience first before they do. >> chris matthews, thank you. i want to read this from senator lindsey graham. like most americans, i have confidence in our democracy and election system. during this debate, mr. trump is doing the party and the country a great disservice by continuing to suggest the outcome of this election is out of his hands and rigged against him. if he loses, it will not be because the system is rigged but because he failed as the candidate. lindsey graham, republican from south carolina. hugh hewitt is with us from las vegas. he's the host of the hugh hewitt radio show. there is a moment when michael j. fox is on the phone with a member of congress and he says to that member of congress, it's just you and me. in effect, what's it going to
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be. on what many people will see the disqualifying point of contention here, where do you come down on donald trump tonight? >> the moment i thought he went 14 out of 15 rounds. he hit himself in the head and knocked himself out to express a contingent acceptance of the result. as chris matthews noted, he might have phrased it in a way na says, if there is a state that is contested by a small number of votes, i will, like al gore, contest that state. he didn't say that. the contingent nature of his commitment to the results is unsettling to many people. i believe he helped the down ticket. i think he introduced the project veritas issue. his media critique is well-founded about what gets covered. dan rather once said, news is where you look. that one exchange has dominated the post-debate and will travel
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until election day and far beyond. i hope that someone is speaking to him about the need to walk that back and clarify that you cannot be contingent about elections that are not close. i wrote a book the title of which is, if it is not close, they can't cheat. it's absolutely true that where there might be a florida 2000 situation where you have to look hard at one state in a close election, it is outside the norms of american political discourse way back as far as i can go. richard nixon in 1960 had a legitimate case to contest the election and chose not to do so because to have done so would have been to undermine the democracy. nixon did a noble thing. contingent rhetoric about results is not within our political norms. >> hugh, on the trump winning 14 of 15 rounds, i have to ask you, you have had such interesting
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back and forth with trump directly on foreign policy. i felt like when he was talking about mosul and iran being the big winner and that whole 42 commas answer where he was trying to come up with something to say about isis, i felt like there was no chance he won that round. i know you and i see things differently. we are pretty close on assessing whether or not people make sense on foreign policy. don't you think he was completely incoherent on iraq? >> no, i don't. salina zito said a lot of people take donald trump literally but not seriously. his supporters take him seriously but not literally. during that ramble, it was a walk-about, a very long, extended walk-about. what i have heard was the critique i have leveled about president barack obama was that his six words led from behind. the vacuum that led to mosul
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having to be fought, whether or not it is strategically correct, that has been around for a long time. i thought the base and indeed some americans that were disturbed that neither candidate mentioned that thousands of americans are in the battle for mosul and in harm's way and we ought to be praying for them. i think people hear differently when they talk about foreign policy based upon their understanding of how we got where we are. i have to disagree with you on that. it deserves a much fuller exploration of the details. much of what was said, as they say in a courtroom, evidence not in consideration. they have not made the argument fully. people upset with president barack obama's foreign policy and secretary of state clinton in libya, syria, the russian reset button, the worst photo taken by a secretary of state in history. i think we have to disagree on
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that. >> i hear that you could make sense out of what he said. i maintain that he actually literally made no sense. >> hugh, this is gene robinson, very quickly. the question was, would you send in u.s. troops to hold mosul after its taken? that was the question. hillary clinton said, no. did you hear donald trump answer the question? >> i heard him say that he would not be telegraphing his foreign policy in the way that president obama has done when he drew the red line and did not enforce it. i hear a consistent critique throughout the trump campaign that one does not telegraph what one is going to do when it comes
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to a war zone like that. i also heard him. when chris wallace said, aleppo has fallen, he said, what do i want? a signed deed. i understood him completely. i think a lot of americans in the middle did. it is all overwhelmed by the center round. i just don't think all these other conversations when he brought up inciting violence at his rally in chicago. he introduced the project veritas program. today, that man re-signed from the campaign. he had been to the white house 20 plus times. it is a real legitimate critique as to whether or not the democrats nominated the republican nominee. that will travel a long way. much was lost in that one exchange. >> hugh hewitt, thank you very much. to hugh's point, i was surprised too. there are thousands of american mom and dads and sons and daughters and sisters and brothers on the job tonight in a very scary place.
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they are submarine officers, working on carrier decks, american pilots in the sky right now, intelligence officers, some of them are with armored platoons and artillery. it is a very real shooting war. i was kind of amazed we didn't have an expression, a statement of that. donald trump has spoken, apparently, from a moving vehicle and apparently he won tonight's debate. >> that was really exciting. made all of my points. make america great again! from that, we pivot to chuck todd. our political director, moderator of "meet the press." i don't know how much of our discussion you have been able to audit, but we found that one moment. >> well, look, i, obviously, it goes to this issue with the headline of the debate goes to him not necessarily conceding that this election is going to be held fair and square. it overwhelms any progress he
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may have made. i thought the first 30 minutes, if you were a republican on the ballot with donald trump, you were relieved with the supreme court was the leading topic. that was very important aspect of it. you were relieved that trump handled the question as well as could be done with sort of base conservative talking points. in that respect, it probably helped some down ballot republicans. at least he reminded wayward republicans that don't like trump why they might want to show up for the polls and vote for republicans for the senate and the house. after the first 30 minutes, we had the next hour. i think just like these last two debates, trump might be able to answer a question and do pretty well for about 10 seconds and then he reiterates the same point over and over again and it gets to the point that rachel and hugh were talking about it, hugh called it a walk-about.
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rachel was confused. that sort of happens, he talks in circles and never figures out where to put the period on. it feels good in the moment and is a disaster in the post debate. i feel like tomorrow and tuesday, that weird interjection on the nasty woman comment plus some of the fact checks. he is going to lose the post debate spin. that's for sure. >> chuck, i want to come back to you. post-debate spin. let's listen to donald trump jr. on his way out. >> that was the back of donald trump jr. on his way out of the debate venue. chuck, back to the point you made before the debate. that was paul ryan, where is he tonight? where did he watch this? what was going on with him? will we hear from him on this very point tomorrow? >> i do think paul ryan has got
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to speak about the integrity of our election system beyond just a paper statement. so i do actually expect we will hear from paul ryan on this in some form. there is your problem if you are paul ryan. you wish you could bottle up the first 30 minutes on the supreme court and hope the rest of the country was on mute for the rest of the debate. trump sort of made that. that was when you could make the argument, the partisan argument, the idealogical argument for the republican side of the ticket. again, i think tomorrow gets dominated. every house republican, every senate republican is going to be asked if they agree with donald trump that the election may not be on the up and up. >> chuck, here now, is donald trump jr. >> he hasn't spent a whole career waiting for a debate like these politicians. you was building things,
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creating jobs, signing the front of a paycheck. he wasn't taking bribes from countries from foreign lands and using it to sell american influence. he was creating american jobs, putting people to work in this country. that's what we need to do. the dignity of work, bringing that back, allowing companies to bring that money back. guess what? hillary clinton can raise taxes but more people will just offshore their stuff. they won't ever bring it back. it will never be taxed and go back into the economy. we could bring that back. we have an opportunity to bring it back, put it on our shores, put americans to work. let them have the dignity of work and let them get their kids a great education and break the cycle of poverty that's been so prevalent in so many parts of america. that's what i want to see. >> you gave a very pro liberty speech at the rnc. you talked about common corp, economic freedom in ways other republicans are not going to talk about. when are you going to run for office? >> my only goal is to put him in here. i'm sick of politicians on both sides. people who make these promises. the only people that have gotten rich during this last cycle have
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been people around d.c. they create problems that only they can fix. i love what my father said about term limits and preventing people at the highest levels of government from then going back and selling america to the highest bidder offshore. that's the kind of stuff that needs to happen. we can't let government be the way for people to get rich by selling america's future to foreign lands that can't stand us and can't stand our values. that is the most important thing we can do. >> three weeks ago, don, your dad said he would absolutely accept the results of the election. don, what changed? >> apparently, earlier when asked about the moment of would your father accept the will of the voters. he said, give me a break. in the control room, what was the quote? hallie jackson. >> are we in space and no one can hear you. >> i'm listen to someone talk. hallie jackson, can we please
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have the quote from donald trump when he was asked about his father's remarks? >> reporter: absolutely. i can't give you the quote exactly. i'm going to paraphrase what he said. we were out in the hallway. we got don jr., donald trump jr. we asked him this issue about what his father said, this idea that he will look into the results of the election. donald trump jr. said, we have heard other surrogates, kellyanne conway and jeff sessions and chairman reince priebus, that if there is voter fraud, adding that qualification, if, then he would potentially challenge the results of the election if there is voter fraud. we pushed him on the idea of this qualification issue. what does that mean for democracy as he was in a scrum of reporters out there? he sort of turned around and said, if there is voter fraud, the implication being, then of course he would potentially move to challenge. i am going to move to get him here. if you can stick around or come back. we are going to try to talk to him more about this.
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eric trump is here spinning for his father, who, as you know, has left the debate hall. no longer in the building, leaving it to his surrogates to talk about this. i would also not note we did interview rnc chair reince priebus, who has been silent. we said, where have you been? he said, i'm here talking to you now, defending donald trump and essentially saying he was going to clarify the remarks donald trump said on stage in saying he would accept the results of election if there weren't widespread issues. >> hallie, if i get him, we'll roll tape. we'll come back and show that. i have to get to chris matthews who has two special guests. >> i have the number one surrogate for donald trump and also the campaign manager for donald trump. ladies first, what about this kerfuffle now, bigger than a kerfuffle, about whether donald trump will accept the results of this election? will he? >> yes, because he is going to win it.
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>> if he doesn't? >> we all say, absent irregularities and widespread fraud and any kind of mischief that is reported, sure. he has to adjudicate the time. al gore had already conceded the election to george w. bush in 2000 and then he called to retract his concession, all the way to the united states supreme court. >> it happens. >> it happened in our lifetime, 16 years ago. i am sure if you asked al gore, he said, sure, i will accept the results and then he did not. >> donald trump seems to be saying the media is supporting the other candidate. will he say the election was stolen? will he say it's not a legitimate election because he says the media supports the other candidate. will he say that's the grounds for denying the results of the election? he keeps saying the media and then he says election results. does the media have anything to do with whether he decides to accept the legitimacy of this election? >> legally, it would have nothing to do with it. the only way you could challenge the election was if there was election fraud.
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>> has he said this? >> legally the only way you can challenge it is if there is some kind of election fraud or a miscount, which is what gore did. we didn't get a presidential number. he may in his heart of heart feel that the media stole it from him by the way they treated him. nothing he can do about it. >> you don't think he will call foul. >> he can call foul but it won't do any good. there are times you feel you have been treated fairly and times you feel you haven't been treated fairly. he feels he has been treated very unfairly. i agree with him. that's different than the issue of, do you accept the election results? if he wins by 2 million or she wins by 2 million, then they are both going to have to accept it. if it is a 400 vote election, there is going to be a recount. >> why in this election is one of the candidates saying i will accept this if it is clean? most candidates don't feel they have to say that. why is he saying that? >> there are indications by a lot of fooling around. >> where? >> this whole veritas thing where they are paying people to
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create violence. >> how does that say the election count will be wrong? >> to what extent would they go? >> that suggests that the electoral college would be affected in its results. where do you see any gross example of where there will be a crooked election. i don't see it. >> all these people that are on the ballot that don't exist. all the dead people still on the ballots. >> that's new? that's new? we had that in chicago in 1960. >> i had it in new york in 1989. >> how is that affecting the results? >> we are talking about who won and who lost and will there be a concession speech or not have this man has been talking from day one about the corrupt system all the way around. he is running against a woman, probably the most corrupt candidate to run. >> that's election language. >> no, this is important because only somebody who is so far outside the system as donald
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trump is can legitimately say they are going to take a better look at the system and turn it upside down. this is part of that. he has been reading these reports about the dead people on the rolls, the irregularities. you have to take his whole comment together. you have 96% of the donations from working journalists going to hillary clinton. that's not even a close call. >> it is your right to say that. >> that's part of what he is saying. >> why did he make the headline here tonight and it will be the headline? >> it shouldn't be the headline. the headline should be that hillary clinton was rattled and donald trump turned a masterful debate performance and the polls are going to tighten as a result. he held her to account all night long, on the russian reset long, on the russian reset syria where 80,000 kids have been innocently slaughtered, libya, benghazi. he held her to account for the lack of jobs in upstate new york. those are the headlines to me. >> he said this. i'm going to hold the american people in suspense as to whether i'm going to ratify the results
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of this election. why did he say that? i'm going to hold the american people in suspense. why would he say that? >> you've never said it. >> we are in suspense. >> how many elections are contested? numerous elections. >> you beat ruth messenger on the west side. >> when i lost, there were a lot of people that wanted me to contest it. i decided not to. i might have contested that. >> you believe this is about a questionable result. >> i think you are talking about this, your station, because he knocked her out tonight. >> you figured out my motive. >> he knocked her out tonight. when she said, you have violence at your rallies and he said, yes, you paid for it. he knocked her out. >> how many decades have i been work on pro life, i have been waiting for a republican nominee for president and vice-president to talk about the fact that the
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democratic party is so extreme. they say they are pro choice. they are for abortion any woman, any time, anywhere. she couldn't defend that. >> the partial birth, the child, if you will, ripped out of the womb days before delivery. were you surprised he used that? >> no, i wasn't surprised at all. i was really happy he did it. people should know you can't just call yourself pro choice and not realize what that means. this is not bill clinton's democratic party of 1992 where he wanted a centrist, moderate, southern governor. he said, abortions should be safe, legal and rare. there are no restrictions, no regulations. >> you are pro choice. >> i consider that killing a baby. we have all had babies that are born in the 7th, 8th, 9th month. >> i like the fact that donald trump and michael pence shined the light on that.
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you have all of these republicans hunkering on the death hoping the shrapnel won't hit them. the second amendment, that was a really low point. she looked very defensive. >> chris, thank you so much to react to and yet -- >> can we just stop this for a second? that was absolutely, completely and totally insane. can i just express that mild feeling? >> yes. >> that was absolutely, totally, completely insane. i give credit to my calm, cool and collected friend, chris matthews for that. for them to say donald trump saying he will not accept the results of the election is totally normal, this is what people do all the time, rudy giuliani was right there, it was a knockout. >> only donald trump who has been outside the system can say the whole system is corrupt and rigged. >> he attacked this network and our focus on it.
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here is laura ingraham, very well-known conservative. he should have said he will accept the results of the election. there is no other option unless we are in a recount again. this was the headline. this was the headline. again, it is donald trump stepping and smashing and crushing donald trump's road to the white house. >> we have a pull report from inside the room. this is a pretty well-behaved debate audience compared to the others we've had. there were a few little moments and chris wallace was right on it. there was an uncontrollable, audible gasp when he made the comments of not accepting the results of the election. that was not because those people were a group of msnbc employees tittering about the fact that we are going to lose this narrative. kellyanne conway, a nice and normal person and rudy giuliani
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are sitting there playing that violin song, are saying, yeah, we're winning. can't wait to pick my cabinet seat. >> they do feel they were involved in debate prep. they do, think, want to take a little bit of credit for an improved performance, which is true. >> the first 25 minutes were better. >> you can't separate the headline. >> nor from the fact he was screaming wrong, wrong, wrong, and what a nasty woman and back with the sniffling. insanity on mosul. >> no stamina. >> i am merely trying to stick up for 32 very nice people in columbus, ohio, who agreed to stay up with us. democratic pollster, chris cafinas has put together a focus group of 32 very nice citizens of columbus, ohio, where it is late for them.
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they have already worked all day. they have stood by for us. so, chris, tell us about your findings and far from this brunch, far from vegas, how did it go over in ohio? >> a mixed reaction. in terms of who won the debate, it split down the middle. you had 11 that thought that hillary won the debate. you had 10 that thought trump won the debate and another 11 that thought it was neither. what was interesting was, as much as they were kind of torn and they kind of kept yo-yoing back and forth as to who was doing well, hillary clinton, trump and kind of tied and hillary again. in terms of who moved in terms of actual votes, here is what is interesting. you had 11 that went to hillary, five that went to trump and the rest of the room undecided. what's really fascinating, the conversation we were just having, what really was interesting is the missed opportunity that trump had in this debate. what really hurt him was the
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negativity, the personal attacks. you saw that. when asked, who was more negative in this debate? it was 21, trump, 1, hillary. 10 thought they were equally negative. that speaks to the larger problem that trump has. every time he tries to connect and he does connect especially with this audience on issues like trade and speaks to the frustrations of the economy, he ends up being his own worst enemy. he starts with the personal attacks and starts interrupting. that just loses people. that just reinforces this narrative that is out there that he is not ready to be president. >> chris, do you have a microphone? is there a foreperson that emerged from both camps that we could hear from? >> michelle, give me your thoughts. what did you think about the debate? >> the debate went well. the thing that stuck out for me was when trump asked that he
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would concede, and he said no, i felt like it was disrespecting the democracy of the united states. >> bill, what stood out for you. >> blown opportunities on the part for donald trump. i think hillary did a good job keeping her poise under fire. i think mr. trump blew a lot of good opportunities to put himself in a better position. >> which did better for you in the debate? >> i think both candidates have missed opportunities. i think it could have been a much better debate if the candidates would have stuck to the issues, explained the reasons and their platform and that way the american people could understand where the candidates were coming from and make a decision based off of the actual issues. >> so everybody has an idea in terms of where the room is divided. we have folks on the left that leaned hillary.
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the folks in the middle were undecided. the folks on the right leaned trump. i want to just ask the folks, everybody in the room, a question again that i asked earlier. if trump had been more positive in this debate, not in this election, not just this debate, how many in this room think that trump would be winning this election right now? raise your hands. >> that is nearly the entire room. what's amazing to me, depending on what happens, if the polls we are seeing, the battleground polls stay where they are, this was another missed opportunity. this was a missed opportunity in terms of an election. when you speak to these voters that are undecided or leaning one way, they do want change. the problem is, they haven't bought the change that trump is selling. >> pollster, chris cafinas. a favor for me, thank everybody in that room on our behalf. >> seriously. >> nicole wallace was in ohio. the rest of us were planning trips there, multiple days with our families to repay them for their kindness. thank them for their time,
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attention and that show of hands is the republican frustration. >> that's what i was saying in my somewhat feeble defense of rudy and kellyanne and frankly everybody that's been part of the trump effort has expressed some degree of that exact sent imof what you saw in that room. he is the one who gets in his own way. never before in my party has someone been in more control of their own destiny. hillary clinton's liabilities are the known knowns. she has been on the stage. his best message in his adviser's view is to rail against long-time establishment politicians in both parties. that's how he won the nomination. that was his opportunity in a general. he turns in a performance that for him was better than his other two and blows his own performance, blows himself up. i called him a suicide bomber last time. he blew himself up tonight by doubling down. chris wallace, i thought, almost
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threw him a life line. are you sure you want to say that, pal? you just said you won't accept the american democracy. >> here is why it is important you give a different answer to that. here, why don't you give me a different answer. >> their answer now is, well, gore didn't. that is not going to win back that room in columbus. forget about us. we do not determine elections but those voters in ohio, they decide. >> forgive me, gene, from one second. we have a remote from overseas, richard engel. this is day three of the battle for mosul. richard has been covering that, which includes thousands of american men and women. richard, your reaction to the discussion you heard tonight. >> reporter: before we get into mosul, we are now really understanding what kind of foreign policies the two candidates are championing. secretary clinton describes what is really a continuation of
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president obama's policy, which is to drive isis out of mosul and then to continue on to raqqah. she has this add-on of a no-fly zone in syria. that has been debated but there hasn't been the time or the will for it. what we've seen from trump is he will embrace dictators around the world, praising putin and assad for being effectively much smarter than washington has been. now, on to mosul. he specifically referenced mosul. he said, even though this operation has been in its early days, it has been a lot harder than people expected. take a listen. >> we'll take mosul. much tougher than they thought, much, much tougher, more dangerous, going to be more
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deaths than they thought. >> reporter: well, in the early days, it actually hasn't been tougher than people expected. i have spoken to american commanders. so far, it is going a little better than expected. donald trump did have one point i think a lot of people will agree with. why advertise this campaign? why tell isis that you are coming? why make this such a moment of an it is payment? isis has had a lot of time to dig in. they already found some tunnels. there is concern that isis could use chemical weapons, crude homemade chemical weapons. if this turns out to be a very bloody campaign, if there are hundreds of thousands of refugees, if there are some crude chemical weapons used, i think trump can go back and say, i told you, we should have never alerted isis that we were coming. >> on the issue of the nukes, he continues to be very loose in his talk about nuclear weapons. he was talking about how the
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united states needs more warheads to balance russia and then he was talking about how he never said that specifically saudi arabia and south korea shouldn't have or should have nuclear weapons. he has said that in the past. that was a clear contradiction and i think we have those clips lined up. >> our country cannot afford to defend saudi arabia, japan, germany, south korea, and many other places. we cannot continue to afford that. she took that as saying nuclear weapons. look. she has been proven to be a liar on so many different ways. this is just another lie. >> well, i'm just quoting you when. >> it was no quote. you are not going to find a quote from me. >> you are okay with japan having nuclear weapons? >> we are better off if japan protects itself against north korea and south korea is going to protect itself. >> saudi arabia?
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>> absolutely. >> so he says you are never going to find that quote from me. that quote was on national television. that quote wasn't even that long ago. this is the problem. you can have mixed truths about a lot of things, your record, not put out your taxes, delete e-mails but you don't want to be inconsistent about nuclear weapons policy and about nuclear proliferation. this has enormous consequences. you don't want to get this one wrong. you don't want to be either misremembering things or lying about them or not quoting yourself accurately when it comes to nuclear weapons. >> richard engel in irbil where it's 6:35 a.m. i am told i have time for one follow-up with you. it would be this. why did we announce so far in advance the offensive was coming to mosul?
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>> reporter: well, it depends on how cynical you want to be, frankly, brian. in one sense, i think it was politically timed. i think the mosul campaign, there was an objective to get this done while president obama is still in office. the rise of isis in iraq and syria, the birth of the so-called caliphate has probably been the blackest stain on the obama administration. i think there was a determination to get this operation underway and to get mosul liberated from isis while president barack obama is still in office. i think they wanted to project that. down the road if this operation goes badly, that could be a serious liability. if it goes well, president obama will have a feather in his cap. he can say, i wasn't weak on isis. we just took back mosul and
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eliminated the isis caliphate while i'm still in office. if it goes badly, there is a risk. >> under the official banner of an iraqi led effort with american air intelligence and artillery backup. richard engel, our chief foreign correspond department, irbil, iraq, just after dawn for us. richard, as always, you have been there for us. a break for our coverage. we're back with more right after this. my advice for looking younger, longer? get your beauty sleep. and use aveeno® absolutely ageless® night cream
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she should never have been allowed to run for the presidency based on whoo she did with e-mails and so many other things. >> sir, there is a tradition in this country, one of the prides of this country is the peaceful transition of power, no matter how hard-fought a campaign is, at the end of the campaign, that the loser concedes to the winner, not saying that you are necessarily going to be the loser or the winner but that the loser concedes to the winner and the country comes together in part for the good of the country. are you saying you're not prepared now to -- >> what i'm saying is i will tell you at the time. i will keep you in suspense. >> that was the disqualifying moment for so many people. let's hear from pete williams,
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part of our truth squad, who has been looking into this issue of voter fraud. donald trump tweeted out the words widespread voter fraud a few days ago. pete? >> when he was asked tonight just before the clip you played about his statements that the election is rigged and that he fears it won't be fair, he referred to a study done four years ago by the pew center on the states. here is what he said. >> if you look at your voter rolls, you will see millions of people that are registered to vote, millions, this isn't coming from me but pew reports and other places. millions of people that are registered to vote that shouldn't be registered to vote. >> he is right about one thing. the study did find 24 million voter registration, or 1 out of every 8 are no longer valid or contain inaccuracies. a lot of that is because people move and their addresses are out
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of date. it also said it contains almost 2 million people that have died. the system for keeping the voter rolls is inefficient and in need of an upgrade. that was the point of it. the report did not say that this leads to fraud and the pew researchers themselves have said that the perception of the possible bhilt -- possibility of fraud drives hyper partisan party making. the number of cases of in-person voter fraud, somebody going to the polls and pretending they are one of these people that shouldn't be on the registration list, the number of those cases is extremely low. one study found 31 verified cases out of one billion votes cast. >> i don't think dead people have ever played such a prominent role in a presidential debate as they have tonight. pete williams, our justice
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correspondent. >> arguably, depending on the roles of zombie policies that sometimes affect our brains. in terms of the impact of this comment by donald trump, we have heard it tried to be levied by his campaign manager and rudy giuliani, saying it is not that serious, what he is talking about is a potentially contested election. there is also just political and sociological impact of him making this claim about the election we are about to have. for comments on that, want to go to our friend, joy reid. what's your take on that moment? some saying it was the most important part of the debate and this subsequent explanation we are getting. >> i agree. it was a chilling moment in our democracy in over 240 years. it is the standard, the turnover
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of power, no matter what you think of the election and the results. the idea that donald trump was given the opportunity in a direct question to say he would accept the results of the election when his running mate has said he would and kellyanne conway has tried to say he would. he would not say that. he said, he will keep us in suspense, keep the country in suspense as to whether he will respect the results of the education. it was a fundamental mistake, but it was what donald trump actually thinks, which is quite frightening. there were several other moments that will resonate negatively for the trump campaign tomorrow. several mistakes. one of them saying he did not apologize to his wife, something that contradicts not only what she has said but what trump has said and his continued call loss -- callousness towards
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the women, nine now and counting that have now made claims that he groped them and kissed them without their concept. his direct statements about what the trump foundation did or didn't do are sort of an open invitation for david fairen hold and other reports to check him. one other thing is calling hillary clinton a nasty woman at the end. it did innocence a lot of women. this bad ombres comment. we haven't talked a lot about it. i am here in nevada where you have the possibility of electing the first hispanic woman to the senate and a house race involving an hispanic contender, a democrat. that is going to resound so negatively with latino voters. it is beginning to get negative blowback. the overall presentation, the sweating, the interrupting, the sort of meandering answers.
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i think donald trump did no good. i think hillary clinton came loaded with oppo. she laid out her research in a way i bet marco rubio wish he would be able to do. on hiring the bullish workers, on comments about women. she kept rolling out the receipts. i think she did very well tonight. >> joy reid for us in nevada. thank you. a very good point about the bad hombres comment. the weird thing is it wasn't something he got a big rise from. it wasn't something that he set a big score on. it was an aside. he didn't need to make to make his point. he threw it out there as a gratuitous racial insult. causing himself only harm, i think, unless there are people a trangted to him using that kind of language. >> our next guest was scheduled to be maria teresa kumar. you might as well take on the
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bad hombres. >> i was a little surprised there was no audible reaction in the room. >> because everybody was on twitter. i have to say, when you have bad hombres, you have that mexican thing, muslims, these are things that are in a parallel universe that is very much on the pulse of another voice. i have to say what i am looking at in this debate is whether or not george w. bush is going to come back and say donald trump is disqualified as a candidate because of what he said, that he's going to undermine an election. the reason i'm looking for george where bush, texas is up by only two points for donald trump. texas hasn't gone democratic since 1976. you have roughly 4 million latino eligible voters in that state. people are paying attention. i would look at that. this whole time, donald trump has done such a smart job of taking us down a different road. we don't know what smoke and
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mirrors he is really trying to do. at the very end when he said he wanted us to tune in to election night to see if he was going to concede, my bet is that he realizes that he was losing this election. he lost this debate. he gave himself the biggest platform for an infomercial. today, he launched a soft launch of trump tv on facebook. he had over 200,000 people watching. governor jan brewer from arizona, the governor who says, show me your papers, the controversy on immigration law. he had a former lieutenant on there as well. i wonder if once again, he is playing us. he is basically saying, this game, i have lost this election. i want to get the biggest bang for my buck, the largest infomercial to launch my tv. >> maria, in the way he comes to his entertainment roots
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honestly, he went there when accused of believing the emmy system was rigged. he said, yeah, idea served a third emmy. >> you guys are right now on set but the emmys are now tweeting around saying the emmys are not rigged. julia dreyfus saying it is not rigged. he knows how to play to his audience. he also knows how to play us. he kept saying the media was rigged. he is starting to see where he wants to go next. this will be chapter 2 for donald trump. >> smart stuff. really good to have you here. in terms of the crooked media, the a.p. has posted its headline story on the debate. it's top headline on it is debate stunner, trump won't say he'll accept election results. check out this lead. he refused to say he will accept the results if he loses to hillary clinton. the democratic nominee said his
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resistance was, quote, horrifying. that is the lead. >> wire service reporters are obsessed with pillars of democracy. it's a thing with them. >> leading with those dependant clauses. >> said the print guy. >> said the pulitzer guy. >> we are going to take another break and come back with more right after this. your whole house and every room that's in it floors, doors, walls, halls he's so tough, he cleans 'em all mr. clean!
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i am on record as saying we need to put more money in the social security trust fund. that's part of my commitment to raise taxes on the wealthy. my social security payroll contribution will go up as will donald's, assuming he can't figure out how to get out of it. >> such a nasty woman. >> many people's choice for the nastiest moment of the debate. having nothing to do with the rigged media. james carville, watching from new orleans. james, that was something as well. >> there were a lot of moments in the debate. a lot of news that was made. from a political person's point of view, we started tonight before the debate. it was generally acknowledged or it is acknowledged the fact that she had a pretty comfortable lead. would anything happen that would jeopardize that and change the
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fundamental dynamic in this race. i honestly think clearly nothing did. where we were, if anything, she might be slightly better off. trump had to make gains. i don't see he did that tonight. some people say his performance was better than other debates. other people said her performance was better than other debates. i am very favorable. i thought she did great. i thought the visuals were good. at a minimum, i think we are faced with the same situation we had five hours ago, which is a pretty favorable thing for hillary clinton and the democrats going into this election. that's where we are tonight. this is the end of the public part of the campaign. we are not having any more debates. we are taking this puppy into the house right now. right now, for anybody, it is a pretty commanding position she is in. >> other than the puppy in the house, the issue, james, is that
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if this goes her way, and let's say there is a qualified concession or no concession, the permanently angered group of americans numbering in the tens of millions for at least one presidential term, what do you do about that? who do we see about that? >> a couple things. once you lose an election, you become diminished. right now, he is saying he is going to win. he looks like he's a real strong guy. if he loses this thing like i suspect is going to happen, he is not going to look good on election night or strong. it is going to be presented as a massive rejection of trump and trumpism. will he be able to conduct some kind of guerrilla operation and take some people and do some new something? that's possible. i think the scope of this thing is going to be such that whether
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he accepts the verdict or not, people will. some of the harder core people with him won't. will there be fraud in the election? there will be between 130 and 140 million people vote. of course, there is going to be some fraud. you couldn't have 130 million, 140 million people do something perfectly. the other point, he has no support in his political party for his position. literally, every republican, officeholder, every republican official, everybody says, no, we can't do that. even republican commentators. we can over blow his ability to take a large swath of voters with him and not accept the legitimacy of this election. we have to look to see the way it is going to feel on november 10th after the election is over. i think it will be quite a bit different than tonight. >> james carville, joining us from louisiana tonight. james, good to have you with us. >> absolutely. thank you. >> to james' point, there is something that chris matthews got to tonight with rudy
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giuliani and kellyanne conway, trump isn't making the case that there is going to be widespread voter fraud and that's why trump might not concede the election if and when he loses. he goes from saying he won't concede to complaining about the media, as if the media is the reason why the election is rigged or the media being stacked against him and therefore it is inherently unfair and therefore it can't accurately decide the will of the american people. there is a case he is making that is different. giuliani and kellyanne conway are making a case about the voter fraud and donald trump is making a case about the media. that sets you up for your web radio show or whatever it is he is going to try to do. >> one pretty picture that came out of tonight has come to our attention. do we know anything about what flight this was on what airline. it is virgin, virgin american. in all those seat backs, save
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one or two, is the debate. all those folks on that plane, i would love to hear the results of that informal poll. >> that warms my heart. you know what i mean? you know, people caring look, for everything i see has no respect for this person. >> well, that's because he'd rather have a puppet as president. >> no puppet. >> it's pretty clear -- >> you're the puppet. >> if there was even a time when he didn't get an emmy for his tv program three years in a row and he started tweeting that the emmys were rigged against him. >> should have gotten it. i didn't even apologize to my wife, who's sitting right here, because i didn't do anything. i didn't know any of these women. i didn't see these women. >> my social security pay control contribution will go up, as will donald's, assuming he

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