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tv   AM Joy  MSNBC  October 29, 2016 7:00am-9:01am PDT

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vote something already under way in our country. so the american people deserve to get the full and complete facts immediately. the director himself has said he doesn't know whether the e-mails referenced in his letter are significant or not.
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>> the investigation is the biggest political scandal since watergate, and it's everybody's hope that justice at last can be delivered. >> good morning and welcome to "a.m. joy." both presidential candidates are trying to navigate the latest october surprise that's threatening to shake up the race just ten days before election day. and it's not oppo from the trump campaign or wikileaks. instead, courtesy of the fbi. once again, the e-mail issue that has dogged hillary clinton's campaign almost from the start is at the center of the firestorm. on friday, fbi director, james comey, sent a willer to congress, announcing the fbi had uncovered new e-mails that may be pertinent to its investigation into clinton's use of a private e-mail server, while secretary of state. those e-mails were apparently found as part of a separate
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investigation into anthony weiner, the estranged husband of huma abedin. the sudden twist came as a surprise to the clinton campaign, to say the least. >> no. we have not been contacted by anyone. first we knew about it is, i assume, when you knew about it. when this letter sent to republican members of the house was released. so we don't know the facts. which is why we are calling on the fbi to release all the information that it has. even director comey noted that this new information may not be significant. so let's get it out. >> nbc news justice correspondent, pete williams, has more details. >> reporter: joy, good morning. fbi officials insist, this case is not being reopened. they say that it had never been formally closed, largely because of pending freedom of information act issues. this new development became
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public after the fbi director, james comey, sent a letter friday, disclosing it to the republican chairman of senate house committees with copies to the eight ranking democrats. so the fbi didn't officially announce this. they sent a letter to congress. but that's almost as good as announcing it. the letter said the newly discovered e-mails were found by agents investigating an unrelated case. he didn't say in the letter what the case is. but law enforcement officials say it involves former congressman, anthony weiner. specifically, the fbi looking at whether weiner spent sexually explicit texts and pictures to an underage girl and say he used a laptop computer, and agents discovered that weiner's wife, long-time clinton aide, huma abedin, used that same computer. so in the e-mail case, investigators wanted to examine everything sent to that server to see if there was any classified information. now they say that this new bunch of e-mails has been found,
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numbering in the thousands. it has to be reviewed too. but we're told the agents have not yet examined these new e-mails. they have no idea what's in them. so it's possible many could be duplicates of what the fbi has already seen. but there is no way the review of these new e-mails can be done by election day. so there is no way yet to say whether they have any legal significance or not. joy? >> thank you very much to nbc news' pete williams. i want to bring in matthew miller, former aide to attorney general eric holder. matthew, you have been on a tear on twitter over what jim comey did. just give us a sense of just how unprecedented it is for the director of the fbi to give this much half detail about an ongoing investigation 11 days before an election. >> it is without any precedent in our nation's history. you really have to go back to jim comey's july press conference, where, you know, in that press conference, he
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announced he wasn't recommending the charges be brought, but he then went on to speculate, to make announcements that went beyond the fbi's jurisdiction. and it set in motion a series of events over the summer leading up to yesterday, where time and time again, he's gone far beyond the bounds of fbi precedent, fbi rules, and yesterday was by far the worst example yet. department of justice bends over backwards, not to do anything that can be seen as influencing an election in the closing days, usually interpreted 60 days before an election, let alone 11 days. for him to announce this expansion or review or whatever you want to call it without giving any facts, without giving people any basis on which he's doing it, you know, creates a political football, creates an opportunity for republicans to make hay and really puts the public and puts secretary clinton in a tough position. >> is there any chance that
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james comey, the director of the fbi, would not have been able to anticipate that putting out this vague letter that doesn't really say anything, but just announces that they found some additional e-mails and let people sort of draw their own conclusions, is there any chance he could have anticipated that the republicans on those committees, all the committee heads it was addressed to, the democrats or the ranking members were cced, is there any chance he wouldn't have thought that would be immediately leaked, immediately used in the election? >> no, not at all. he knew exactly what was going to happen. knew exactly what he was doing. i am not one of the people that thinks jim comey did this because he's a registered republican. i actually think he did this because he has, you know -- always cultivated a reputation for independence and integrity. and honestly, he's let it go to his head. and he has become kind of thin-skinned in that he can't take the criticism from republicans and he's let them pressure him and bully him into taking this step in which he's really violated department rules. he even -- if you read what jane
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mare wrote in the "new yorker", he was advised not to do this. and he completely ignored that and went forward with this. so it's unfortunate, and something that hopefully, you know, when all the dust settles and the election has moved on next year, congress really needs to take a look at the fbi director's behavior in this case, starting this summer and especially what he did yesterday. >> laurence tribe, constitutional law expert, tweeted out yesterday two tweets. one said comey's e-mail to his agents, trying to explain himself to his own agents, made clear that the e-mails to be investigated may have no significance at all and the second one, covering one's own back side is understandable. doing so by making voters think the candidate for president might well be indicted is inexcusable. last question to you on this, matthew. james comey has steadfastly refused to even say whether or not the fbi is looking into allegations that aides and former aides to the republican
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nominee, donald trump, are being investigated regarding ties to russia. that is the standard procedure, right? so for those saying why doesn't he then make that potential investigation public, what would you say to that? >> you're exactly right. so it is obvious to anyone that worked at the department of justice the fbi is investigating the trump campaign right now. we know they're investigating the russia hack, paul manafort for the time he worked in ukraine for a putin ally. in no cases does the fbi investigate a scenario with those two facts where they don't look at the trump campaign for investigation. they refuse to comment it. and that's good. they shouldn't be commenting on that case. but that ought to apply for the clinton case. the republicans in congress have been pressuring him to handle it otherwise. it's completely unfair to secretary clinton and ultimately unfair to voters. >> absolutely. thank you very much for your time. i know we have been using your
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time a lot here, not just our network but cable news. thanks for taking time with us this morning. i'm joined by joe canson, the author of the great new book, "man of the world" the further endeavors of bill clinton, and curt iken wald, senior write for news week, and steve cortez, a power panel here to further discuss this. i'm going to start with you on this, joe. sort of where matthew left off. which is the idea that there is protocol that there is a way that department of justice advises the fbi to deal with ongoing investigations. you wrote about that in the national memo this morning. elaborate, if you could. >> you know, joy, in the last election, attorney general holder put out a memo to all justice department employees that you can find on the internet, linked in my piece, which instructs them -- in months before the election in 2012, which instructed them in how to handle a situation like this. where they had to decide how to
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deal with an investigative situation in a case that involved a candidate for public office. and the instructions are very clear. first of all, you don't do anything that could influence an election. and the second was, if you face this situation, and you had to make a decision right away, you had to take it before the public integrity section of the criminal division. so the question is, did director comey do that? it seems unlikely, to me, at least, because what we know is that he found out about this on thursday. >> right. >> and gave it to jason chaffetz on friday. which would not have left any time for review by the public integrity section to decide how to handle this, particularly when, as matthew mill just said, you also have this russian case, which they have handled in a completely different way. and i wonder if they went to the public integrity section in that one and decided not to announce anything about it or disclose anything. >> yeah. >> because if they did, and they didn't do it with this one, that is a very big problem. >> and chaffetz, of course, immediately went on twitter,
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tweeted this out. you know, the question of where this came out. >> tweeted it out inaccurately. he said case reopened. which is not correct. there is no indication from the director at all that the decision not to prosecute hillary clinton is being reexamined. it isn't. >> and curt iken wald, you have written a ton about this, as well. there is a likelihood the supposedly new e-mails are duplicative, the same e-mails but just on a different device that huma abedin had before. so much about this that is unprecedented. you indicated in a sense comey tracked himself into having to do this. can you explain a little bit of your reasoning why james comey took this unprecedented step so close to an election? >> well, ultimately, comey has been engaged in a cascading series of mistakes. and what he did was, you know, when he started with the press conference, when he didn't simply, you know, make the traditional statements of the fbi regarding decisions on the investigation, it went on to
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give, you know, his opinion on certain things going way beyond the standard of what's done. and then going before congress and testifying and again going way beyond the standard of just saying the investigation is concluded. he gave -- put himself in a situation where he felt that, you know, he had to correct the record once the record was out there. this was -- i'm hearing from inside the fbi. this was a final straw. people are furious. they feel not that comey has been politicizing the situation. but that the bureau, bause of comey's missteps, is now going to be perceived as political. and, you know, agents are very, very protective of the reputation of the fbi. and i have never heard so much anger -- people saying the director is incompetent.
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i mean, i have never heard that kind of blowback from inside the fbi towards a director. >> yeah. and april, you know, you cover -- have been covering capitol hill and various white houses. have you ever seen anything like this? this is -- you know, we search our memory to go back to hoover, putting the fbi on the table ten days out from an election. what are you hearing on capitol hill? because it seems that even some republicans, chuck grassley's statement on this was not exactly like chaffetz. he wasn't cheerleading this the way chaffetz has been. he would like to know why the director came out in this manner. even grassley is saying that. >> well, we are hearing so many different things from different people. but one thing for sure. i'm hearing from a lot of leaders on the hill who are saying this definitely is foul and wrong for this man who has this job, who to investigate
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secretly, to find out what is going on. to do this open and publicly. i talked to congressman elijah cummings this morning and he sat on the benghazi committee and he is calling for an open disclosure of what the fbi says. and two, he says this is something -- this has all changed the dynamic, because the investigator has been investigated. meaning comey was investigated by the trump campaign and other people who were saying he was wrong, and what end in july when he said that he was forwarding the information that he obtained from that investigation to the department of justice. and he said he was not going to file charges. but he also said that at the same time, that hillary clinton was careless in how she handled the e-mails. he never said anything else beyond that. so the -- what we thought was closed was closed. ando this, a couple of days -- days -- within two weeks of an election, it definitely brings a lack of integrity for what he has done.
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and this is what people are saying on capitol hill. and also just the fact it could change dynamics when it comes to some elections in this country. >> yeah. and, you know, steve, i'm sure that while your side is cheering this, i want to play what donald trump has said. he's now being able to introduce all sorts of things that are not facts and use them on the campaign trail. let's listen to donald trump last night. >> the fbi would never have reopened this case at this time unless it were a most egregious criminal offense. as you know, i've had plenty of words about the fbi lately. but i give them great credit for having the courage to write this horrible wrong. justice will prevail. >> so steve, you have your candidate now telling his crowds that the fbi has essentially decided to indict hillary clinton, is what he is saying, in so many words. but jim comey's own letter to
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his staff says, of course, we don't ordinarily tell congress about ongoing investigations but i feel an obligation to do so because i testified repeatedly that our investigation was completed and i also think it would be misleading to the american people were we not to supplement the record. at the same time, however, given that we don't know the significance of this newly discovered collection of e-mails, i don't want to create a misleading impression. comey himself is refuting what donald trump has said. >> well, listen, joy, i think it's important to note, by the way, we are not cheering this by any stretch. i'm an american first, before a partisan. and as an american, i am very troubled that our secretary of state jeopardized our national security as often and as badly as she did. the clintons want to get back into the white house. they want to occupy our highest public office, yet have acted for decades in the shadows and want to have it both ways. secret servers. >> there is nothing that we just scussed that has anything to do with jpardizing national security, steve. you know better than that.
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i respect you too much to let you go on a rant that is full of unfactual information, sir. >> joy -- >> no, no. what is at issue here in this new release is the discovery of huma abedin -- i'm going to let curt ikenwald tell us what we know about what this new tranche of e-mails is about. i didn't read anything in any statement that comey has made that talks about jeopardizing national security or e-mails to or from hillary clinton. curt iken wald, your witness. >> let me start with one very open, general thing. the investigation relating to hillary clinton is about did she send national security -- you know, classified information over her personal server. that's it. and so what we have here is, oh, there are more e-mails that have been found. that's what comey has said. that's the full extent of it. they don't know if they're classified. they -- >> well, and curt -- comey told
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us, by the way, the answer to your question is yes. he already told us that. he just said a prosecutor wouldn't bring this case. but the answer is, yes, she did clearly send classified information over nonsecurity channels, which is -- >> one at a time. one at a time. >> unfortunately, it is so easy to throw out false information, and we don't have time in order to go through the details of this. >> okay. >> what i'm going to do -- hold on a second. hold on. i'm going let -- we're going to take a quick break. hopefully everybody can stay with me. i want curt to finish his answer and steve to respond. if you guys wouldn't mind sticking around longer than we planned. i'm going to get curt finish and steve finish when we come back. p you stay regular caus unwanted s. not good. then we swit to m. only mirafer suppos regularity with daicomft fir. d is less kely ause... unwaed gas. finally. switch to mirafiber. f the makers of miralax.
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we are back with my panel. i want to let kurt eichenwald finish his answer from our previous segment. curt, go. >> i just want to start off by saying, you know, this is what's happened with comey that's so wrong. we have a very serious situation of, you know, a very narrow set of facts. and he's created a situation where political advocates are able to go out here and start talking about broad, sweeping things. here is what we know. and this is all we know. there are a series of e-mails that were found on a laptop that was shared between huma abedin and her husband, anthony weiner. those e-mails have not been found to be classifi. they are looking to see what they are. the way that huma abedin -- this is what i learned yesterday and reported in "newsweek." huma abedin had a practice of transferring e-mails she was going to print for secretary
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clinton from her state department private account to another account. a yahoo! account or an account on clinton e-mail.com. and from there, she would take them and print them. what i'm hearing is that people believe that that is probably how these documents ended up on the laptop. so what we're talking about is something -- the fbi already knew about that. the fbi already knew that, you know, which -- that abedin was, you know, doing this process. and so now they found e-mails. that's it. that's all we know. and when people are trying to spin it as, well, it's clinton. there has been nothing connecting this to hillary clinton. in fact, when you follow through the chain of information, the only person whose actions are at issue here is huma abedin. >> yeah, absolutely. and steve, you know, the point that i want to make to you,
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steve -- i know you have a job to do here as a surrogate. if we are now criminalizing the mundane, at least in the minds of the public, casting an as persian that -- to the public can sound as if some crime was committed when what we're really talking about is an aide to a politician prohibinting things for her boss and unfortunately being married to a creep. if that now becomes the basis to cast a broad, sweeping aspergs as somebody who can be president of the united states, politicians only go down from there, steve. is that the kind of politics you want to be a part of? >> we have to be careful. we don't know that a crime has been committed. when you say -- >> you suspect? >> when you say it's mundane, let me tell you someone who doesn't agree, not from me. carl bernstein of watergate fame, who knows quite a bit about political sandal. he said, this is, quote, a bombshell. he said it is unthinkable the director of the fbi would take
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this action light. he believes it's a bombshell. i think most of the american public understands this is a bombshell. >> i don't care what carl bernstein says. >> yet more evidence that hillary clinton is disqualified from serving as our commander-in-chief. >> i think it's my turn. >> april, please. >> yeah. the bottom line. and let's look at the facts. james comey has been pressured by donald trump, and by all the other republicans who intrinsically feel a pure hatred for anything to do with the clintons or hillary clinton. so that has been out in the public square. and debated. and james comey came back with this to give them something to get off of him. again, like congressman elijah cummings said, the investigator has been investigated. now the fbi is supposed to be doing this secretively and going about their business instead of coming within an 11-day period
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to possibly change the election. that is wrong. that is going against procedure. and let's go back to something that james comey said in july, when he did say he was not going to charge hillary clinton. we have to remember that. that he said -- he said out of his own mouth he would not charge hillary clinton. he also said, when you talk about this national security issue, he said whatever she did, even though it was careless, he said she did not do anything malicious against this country. or to aid other countries. so we have to remember that, as well. when you try to bring in the issue of national security. so what is this really? the fact that they have a server, a private server, a former president and a former secretary of state. they can't use aol. they can't use google. they can't use the typical thing. it's not about the server. it's just about the fact of what could possibly have been in these e-mails. am i right or wrong? >> yeah. i'm sorry, we are running out of time. i've got to give joe conson one more bite at this apple. >> first of all, mr. cortes is speaking for a campaign whose manager had to leave because of
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connections to a foreign power. if he want to talk about security we can start there. that is under investigation. >> sorry -- >> you just cannot throw that out. >> that is an investigation. >> he is not with our campaign and he wasn't -- >> running your campaign. >> he is not secretary of state. and there are additional aides -- >> please. >> he cannot jeopardize. he has no power. >> we've got to go. we're going to have everybody back. i'm sure this is going to be ongoing. so we're going to have everybody come back. thank you very much. thank you guys. some will be back. as we have seen with the fbi's october surprise, literally anything can happen in campaign politics. so when we come back, just in time for halloween. take a deep breath. we're going to take you to an alternate reality where donald trump actually becomes the president. what would that mean for the economy, for foreign policy, for
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women and for people of color? the big downright scary stakes in this election. because these stakes are incredibly high. we're going to take you through those stakes and that is coming up next.
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my plan for the economy can be summed up in three great beautiful powerful words. jobs, jobs, jobs. they have been taken away from us. >> so what would donald trump's economic policies actually do to the u.s. economy. joining me now to explain is david k. johnston, pulitzer prize winning journalist and author of "the making of donald trump." jobs, jobs, jobs is normally what democrats say. big city democrats usually use that line. what is donald trump's jobs plan as you understand it? >> well, it's pretty hard to understand, like most things donald says. it's big, it's big, it's jobs,
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jobs. there's lots of jobs. and that's about the end of it. moody's analytics says 3.5 million jobs, that's every 35th person currently employed with lose their job. and 4 million jobs that would be created in the first four years would not materialize. so that would be pretty damaging. trump would start us into a trade war. he would undo nafta, and, of course, china -- mexico and canada are very big trading partners of ours. countries in the pacific rim would tilt away from us and look more to china, which would benefit china. and perhaps donald trump, who is in debt to the communist chinese bank would find that to be actually a good thing, and he could make his ties there happily after he takes office and make more money through his connections to china. >> we do understand that donald trump and a lot of folks in ohio are looking at donald trump, may
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not even know that he built his buildings with chinese steel rather than american steel from places like ohio. >> that's right. >> and so -- >> there's another -- >> go on. >> there's another big impact he would have. in 2013, the median wage in this country, half make more, half make less, went up. it went up by three times as much in 2014 and more than tripled again in 2015. so we have suddenly had wage growth in this country since two things happened. the obama care program began in 2014 and in 2013 tax rates on the top 1% went up. trump would radically cut even more than george bush did taxes on the very, very top like himself and create vast tax loopholes. and while there is no causal relationship, there is a clear core relationship. what taxes at the very top come down, the job situation gets worse. >> and we can see from the chart under the policies of the
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current president who has a 54% approval rating. when barack obama took office after the bush economy, which is also lots of tax cuts for the rich we had the bottom dropping out of the job market. you can see it's grown every month since then. and david k. johnston, you look at this new gdp number we just got. 2.9% gdp growth in the third quarter. is there anything that donald trump has proposed that would improve on that? >> no. he would run up huge budget deficits while under obama, the deficit has been coming down. the debts doubled. but the deficit per year has been coming down until right now. and donald trump is not proposing any way to finance what we really need to make the economy grow, as wall street started saying last week, and that's public investment in infrastructure, in the commonwealth goods and services which make private wealth creation possible. >> yeah. and i think a telling thing to note for our viewers out there
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is that when the fbi dropped its october surprise, the markets went down. i mean, they were actually really destabilized by the idea of donald trump having a better shot at the presidency. thank you very much. really appreciate it. coming up in our next hour, lawrence o'donnell will be here to explain whether a republican congress would rubber stamp all of donald trump'snomic plans that you just heard david describe. spoiler alert. yes. yes, they would. but up next, president trump. his deportation force. that's next. stay with us. something nehaarrid. iquely designefor the dren. inoducing the first-ever finiti qx30 osver. visit your local infiti retailer today. infiniti. empower the drive.
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and then we get 'em out. if i'm elected, they're going to be out of there day one. we're going to get them the hell out of our country. they shouldn't be here in the first place. >> welcome back to "a.m. joy." trump's signature catch phrase, get 'em out, isn't just a policy position. it is for many the defining promise of the donald j. trump campaign. joining me now is maria, the executive producer and maker of npr's latino usa and founder of define america and donald trump surrogate, steve cortes joining us. thank you to our panel. let's go around the horn here and talk about the practical meaning. i want to start with you on this as our attorney, the deals in these immigration matters. what kind of a practical effect could this idea of mass deportation have on not only immigrant communities, but their families who are, you know, u.s.-born here in this country. >> the practical effect in
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theory is extremely troubling. you're talking about your undocumented people, two-thirds here over a decade. one fifth 20 years or more. you're talking about tearing apart families and communities. what i think is most important, when we hear donald trump's words about day one, he's going to do this, day two people gotta go, that will not happen. number one because of the congressional component. it needs a legislative -- that's why george w. bush couldn't do reform, president obama struggled. people don't know this, especially donald trump. under the 14th amendment, undocumented people are entitled to rights of due process. so nobody is being sent home, quote unquote, on day one. they're entitled to a hearing, and due process rights. that's how our system works. so what he's proposing is number one, not going to happen. what is very alarming, is undermines the hopes of immigration reform. whenever we do get around to it, because he's put out this notion that we could solve the problems like that. whenever we do -- try immigration reform again, there is still a component of people
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who say we should get them out tomorrow. that cannot happen. >> except, maria, that the pieces we put up earlier of donald trump's idea, build a wall and catch and release, meaning people are released into the community. his new deportation task force which would presumably go door to door and question families as to the immigration status of people living in the household, ending sanctuary cities, penalizing cities who don't throw out undocumented migrants and whatever extreme vetting is, meaning no more muslims get to come in the country. that would have to go through congress. trump said the american taxpayer is going to pay for the wall and somehow compel mexico to reimburse us. it's not going to go through a hostile congress. if donald trump wins, he's going to have a sew list to us republican congress that's going to know his voters are their voters and if they want to get re-elected they're going to do whatever he says. this is the opposite of what
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happened with immigration reform. he will get to do these things because congress will let him. >> right. and if that happens, just because i got these numbers right from ucla with the congressional budget office. 2.6 trillion loss to our gdp if that happens. can we just say that again? $2.6 trillion loss to our gdp. so i really want to bring it to numbers. apart from the fact that the issue of due process right now is being tested every single day, like right now is being tested on the backs of immigrants, undocumented immigrants or immigrants with green cards being held in detention centers not given that access to due process, basic due process, being tested every day. let's bring it to numbers. we know that the polling across the country, no matter what, it's about 60th the lowest, 75% at the highest of americans who want to see immigration reform and believe there should be some path to fixing this. those are the numbers we need to be looking at. if that happens, you know -- if
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i was running a campaign, but i'm not, i would have, you know, the candidate with his or her arm around, you know, raoul and around joe, and i would be saying, legalize raoul, so that our personal economy goes up. because that's what we're talking about. when we're talking about those families, right now they're in fear. so we need to recognize that. and that fear means they're not buying the house. they're not buying the car. they're not sending the kid to college, because they're worried that they could be deported. what is that doing? it's decreasing our economic growth. so apart from all of the humanity, let's come down to what do we want, we want to grow our economy and they're not going anywhere and it's unrealistic to think they can do this. it's just unrealistic. >> and antonio vargas, talk about what is happening. like on the ground in terms of people's real fears. because in addition to the list that i gave before, you also have what is sure to be a reversal of the executive order
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on dhaka, meaning that kids brought here as children would now have come forward with dhaka as their shield would now be exposed and now be known to the trump administration and subject to deportation. your thoughts. >> well, i mean, i think we have to remember with dhaka, 750,000 young people had to basically give their names, their home addresses, their phone numbers, their information, to the very government that may just want to not only get rid of dhaka, but to deport them under a president trump. we have to remember that, right? so i'm here in los angeles, which is the demographic epicenter of the country's undocumented population. 800,000 undocumented people in the l.a. area. and i can tell you this. i as an undocumented immigrant, as an undocumented business owner, i employ u.s. citizens in this country. talk to the irs about that. i'm not going anywhere. like, we are not going anywhere. but back to maria's point. the level of fear and anxiety, i
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just got maybe yesterday five e-mails from undocumented young people who are in college right now, who have dhaka, who are wondering, so what do i do? like, do i just stay in college? do i try to just, like, not say anything? do we not rock the boat? you know, when you go to our website, we now house the largest stories of undocumented immigrants online. people who have actually come out to change the narrative of this whole issue. this is more difficult now. it is more difficult to ask people to say who they are. to explain why they're here. and to bring the humanity and, again, the economic factors of this. at the end of the day, you know -- i have to say as someone who is subjected to a lot of twitter followers from the donald trump campaign, they're trying to scare us. they're trying to intimidate us, they keep telling us to go home. i am am. this is my country, this is where i built up and where i'm staying. >> steve, i want to talk about
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the politics, specifically. for donald trump's base, for the people who go to his rallies, the build the wall chant is very popular. the idea of on day one shipping millions of people out of the country is something that rallies his base. what do you think the politics would look like if, let's say, a year from now, people were watching the nightly news and seeing homes being raided and screaming children being dragged out and grandmas being deported. what does that do to the politics of a party that does need to grow its nonwhite base? >> right, joy. that would be terrible, but it's not going to happen. and that's not what donald trump is talking about. those tapes you played of him saying they have to leave on day one, he's talking there about dangerous criminals. and we do know that they are hiding in plain sight in sanctuary cities. we know there are 13,000 known violent criminals that we are trying to deport, mostly in the latin american countries. they won't accept them so we're keeping them right now. that's an absurdity. those people need to be out
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yesterday. on day one of a trump administration, they will have to leave. look, i'm incredibly pro immigrant, like you. the child of an immigrant. like probably many people on our panel. immigration is a treasure to this country and the dynamism and work ethic is immeasurable. it is most unfair, though, to legal immigrants to allow illegals to hop in front of them and cheat the system. and that is what is -- >> wait, wait. >> you are on a roll there. >> so you are going to use -- i don't know how -- in fact, it was just yesterday, i think, i had to put another tweet. illegals is not a noun. it is not a noun. you cannot -- >> illegal immigrant. i'll use that as an adjective. if you're here and you're not allowed to be here -- >> what you can do is you can say it is an immigrant living illegally or an immigrant living without papers or without documents in this country. but what you cannot do is to label a person illegal. and the reason why i say this is
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not because i learned it from some radical latino or latina studies professor. when i was a college student. i learned it from ellie advisel who survived the holocaust. the first thing they did is declared the jews to be an illegal people. this is real fear. when i was looking at the numbers -- in terms of the early voting, what about those families who are in the states who are going to go for trump and there will be? what about those families. and, again, we're not going anywhere. so you have to tell us what that feels like, to allow people living in fear in our united states of america. >> and as a appointment of order, no one can declare another person in quote, unquote, illegal, except for an immigration judge. not you, not me, not a law enforcement officer. >> that's going to have to be the last word. >> the english language matters. >> steve, that's the end of the segment. sorry. we'll be back.
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thank you. i'm sorry. we just are short on time today. coming up, a trump biographer tells exactly the kind of president donald would be. have no fear. stay with us. its way into yr day,i hear. toverywi this in that mes ordinartasks extraoinarily painful, i hear you. make sure your door hears you too! i hear youecause i was there wh my dad suffered make sure your with diabetic nerve pa if you have diabetes and burning, soting pain in your feet or hands, don't suer in silence! step on up and ask your doctor about diabetic nerve pain.
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i don't like to analyze myself. because i might not like what i see. i don't like to analyze myself. >> in 2014, donald trump gave a revealing interview to my next guest, journalist, michael dan antonio, "the truth about trump." we're doing this thought experiment. what kind of a president donald trump would be. based on your hours and hours and hours of listening to him talk, what do you think he would be like as president? >> well, i actually think he would surprise a lot of people.
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and be less crazy than those who fear a trump presidency. often here's playing a role. and yes, when i interviewed him, he did avoid introspection. he talks about things in a really extreme way. you think when he's campaigning that he's practically out of his mind. but there's a lot of role-playing going on here. and he has great theatrical interest and performance skills. and i actually think he would adopt a presidential persona. and if he can persuade really good people to gather around him, he might be a decent president. >> and what kind of -- the sort of defining feature as we have seen him seems to be the sense of vengeance. wants to get back at the media, sue the women. how much does that kind of sense of vengeance play a role in his sort of leadership style? >> well, i think it plays a role in his style as a business person, and definitely as a performer.
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you see on television where he just lambastes people, and he has this idea of you hit me, i'm going to hit you back ten times harder. now, i would be afraid to be on his enemies' list, and i think that's a bad thing if you're concerned about the abuse of power. but i also think that we have to understand that this is almost a promotional tour. and i doubt he would sue any of these women. i doubt he would try to go after journalists in any aggressive way. he'll talk a big game, but, you know, he understands the limits of the constitution, and the limits of the law. >> and what would happen, then, if he disappointed his supporters. >> well, this is an interesting thing. i sometimes wonder if he would be committed, even to a second term. you know, for donald, the prize is everything. so he is always interested in building the biggest building, he's interested in getting as
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much money as possible. but he's not an operator of complicated enterprises. so he may just say, i did it once and that's enough. >> interesting. well, michael d'antonio, everyone should check out your audio on the "new york times." fascinating stuffer. appreciate it. >> thank you. lawrence o'donnell gives us his take on the hillary clinton firestorm. don't miss that. ent? is it cagiver determed to take ref her own? or is it a lifetime ofork that blazes thth to your psions? yo personal suestakes a financial partr who lues it as mh y d yo personal suestakes a fn atiaa.orgtr for mecare.
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just like the people wh, ery business is different. but every one of those sinesss will need legal help as they age and grow. whether it be help staing your business vendor contracts or employment ements. gaoom's netwk of aorneyss can he you every ste t way so you can focus owhat you do. we'lnd the legal stuff at com ulegalzoom.e if the leaders were helping me, we couldn't lose this election. it would be an impossibility. >> welcome back to "a.m. joy." would the leaders be with donald trump if he actually became president? joining me now to discuss is the host of msnbc's "the last word," the one and only lawrence o'donnell. i'm going to set that aside for one moment. >> for what? what could be more important? >> what could be more important. i want to talk to you eventually about if trump were to be president, would the leaders, quote, unquote, be with him.
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but before we get to that, we've got to talk about this breaking news that came out, james comey inserting the fbi in an unprecedented fashion into the election. your thoughts. >> unlikely at this point to know more than we currently know. based on everything that's been revealed, and the investigative reporting indicating they're looking at a computer that was shared by anthony weiner and huma abedin. let's assume for the moment we won't know any more than that between now and election day. it's -- there's no information in that for -- of an undecided voter to say, ah, this is what i need. to go against hillary clinton or for donald trump. it just isn't there. it's just, oh, something else with the e-mail. and hillary clinton's answer last night to that question, she thinks it is baked into the polling already. it's very hard to argue with that. i just don't see what -- and nate silver, the last guest on my show last night, which is the
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way i wanted it. okay, here's the whole story. now, what do we think it means in the polls, and he said -- he showed us that when the worst day of the clinton campaign occurred, which was james comey's last entrance -- >> surprise. >> in july. july 25th, i guess it was. that what happened was hillary clinton lost a close to 2%, and donald trump gained nothing. this was the really important part. he did not go up. the voters moved out into undecided for a while and then came back. nobody moved to donald trump. >> that's right. >> so that's what has to happen now. we have to get a reaction to this from voters that is different from the one that we got in july. so it seems to me, and nate silver was -- he started the day yesterday with an 80% chance of hillary clinton winning. >> yeah. >> he ended the day with hillary clinton maybe out of 68 -- he can't calculate it yet. >> yeah. >> until tuesday/wednesday when we get the polls.
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>> sure. the tracking. and i think it cannot be said enough that people are already voting. so this is something that -- in the rear-view mirror for some people, too. >> that's right. >> so let's talk about if, by chance, this revelation were to somehow convince no one ever that they were going to suddenly decide i really would rather have donald trump. let's say that happens and he becomes president of the united states. we started off with a sound bite and said if only the leaders were with me, we would be winning in a land side. does that mean they would be a check and balance on president trump or go along with whatever it is he wanted to do. >> there is only one agenda item i see in the trump agenda that the congress would definitely do -- a republican congress would with do. >> right. >> and so there's two ways to discuss this. the democrats control the senate or the democrats don't control the senate. let's go with status quo, okay? republican control of house and senate. they would do the tax cut. >> for sure. >> it would not be the trump tax cut. they already rewrote the trump tax cut which is something the
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paul ryan tax cut. the original trump tax cut was the most insane anybody has come up with. now it's half as insane. so it's basically the ryan tax cut. they would do that. it would be written entirely by paul ryan in his office, the white house would have nothing to do with it. he would be handed it and have to stem it. everything else trump has now said, the wall. the wall. >> we pay for. >> he's going to go and get an appropriation from congress to pay for the wall and then he's going to send the bill to mexico. nobody in congress is going to vote for that. nobody. they're all -- all republicans go, no, no, you said mexico is paying for it. they have to take the money from somewhere at that point. and you go right down the list. and i don't see anything else on his list. >> what about repealing the affordable care act? >> that's the interesting thing. sure, the house will absolutely repeal it, as long as ryan knows for certain that the repeal cannot get through the senate. and that's the game that has always been played here. you get to vote in the house of representatives on repealing
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obamacare, and you get to tell everybody you did it. and you never, ever have to pay the price. you never have a constituent -- >> why would they want it to go through the senate? >> because they don't want to repeal obamacare? are you kidding in he? they know that's insane. paul ryan, at least, knows -- there's 100 house members who think it's a great idea. the rest of them know it's a thing they have to vote for. so the senate has always been there to make sure it doesn't happen, and president obama has been there to make sure it doesn't happen. but now if you had a republican senate and a republican president, i still think they would find a way. mitch mcconnell would be very happy. very happy to see the democrats get this all tied up in the senate. he would do everything he could to help them tie it up in the senate. >> and is that because, as we all went through with the summer of 2009, the hell of passing the affordable care act in the first place, republicans would be -- it would be political malpractice to bring that on themselves. >> you might think it's a very ugly building. but if you pull this foundation
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out of it, it collapses on people. it lands on people in your district, in your state. for senators, it lands on thousands and thousands of people in your state. who the next day have no health insurance. the next day. and so they don't want to do that. they want to say they want to do that. it's one of those great things you get to do when you're in the opposition party. you know, you get to claim this is what we should do. >> right. >> as long as i'm not in a position to actually do it. but there's never been a more irresponsible version of that than what we have seen during the republicans during the obama administration. this kind of stunting always occurred. but it was over relatively minor things. on each end of the -- you know, the political menu of the parties. >> sure. and i think about matt bevin who took over in the state and mitch mcconnell's home state of kentucky and undid the affordable care act, which was very popular in the state and now having hell to pay because
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now they're on the federal exchanges, which are what's losing insurers, so he took people from a secure system they liked to a chaotic system they hate and he did that on purpose. >> right. >> so they would have to do that nationwide. >> all of that is president obama's mutli. >> of course. >> that's one of the great burdens when you legislate something this big. what happens, this is unfair, but so is politics. every single thing that chance in the health care sector, after you pass this bill, is your fault. >> that's right. >> you own every thing that happens. even though, most people's health insurance has nothing to do with obamacare. absolutely nothing to do with it. and so, you know, now you have premium increases and you own those premium increases, and i'm sorry. but america is not an economics classroom, where everyone sits down and says, hey, wait. tell me what the increase would have been if we didn't have obamacare. >> exactly. >> they don't do that. >> exactly. >> so you own it, politically. and it's -- it's a big burden to
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own. >> lastly, let's talk about immigration. we had a bit of a debate in our previous panel as to whether or not donald trump really would do a national deportation force, something he could do through i.c.e., wouldn't need congress to do it. i guess he would need money to do it. >> would need a lot. >> what do you think happens on immigration, knowing the republicans are looking at 2018 and 2020, with two conflicting political tugs on them. one was 2018 where their base is like deliver and 2020 where they are crushed. >> once again, to do the mass deportation, you have to spend these extra billions of dollars, hire all these people, you have to -- by the y, build a tremendous amount of actual infrastructure. like buildings and offices and all of this stuff. and, you know, penal institutions to hold these people in transit. this massive spending bill is the first thing you have to ask for to do this. they wouldn't pass it. they just wouldn't pass it. so, you know, remember, there's
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two ways to talk about trump. trump, the horrible, threatening person, which he is. horrible and threatening on all of these fronts. the other thing, a complete fraud. a complete fraud. he's the same guy who is telling you, you know, this is what's going to happen in this casino. this is how this casino is going to transform the town. it's the same fraudulent guy who is telling you, i'm going to deport everyone. so it's one of those things where you have to say, okay, do i take trump promises seriously or not? you know, and i don't take them seriously. so in government, what you have to say is, i never care about a president's promise. i care about will the congress go along with that promise. are you you have to look at what's required to carry out that promise. and you go, no, they're not going to do that. >> yeah. lawrence o'donnell. i think a shorter version of what you said is, if you want to know what trump is going to do, ask a trump university graduate. because that's the best -- >> there you go!
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it's weird, because we are then suggesting that there's something harmless about this guy. which is not the case. i mean, he is -- he is threatening. and in an extreme way we have never seen before. luckily, the founding fathers anticipated this guy. and they have set up structures that make it very difficult for a threatening character like this to carry out his threats. >> well, lawrence o'donnell, thank you very much. i think you've brought a lot of people's blood pressure down today. >> it's my job. >> it's what you do. and after the break, who a president donald trump would target for his revenge. that's next. boost it's about moving rwd t back. it's looking up not down. it's feeling up it beingn motion... in bod in spirit in the. boost. it's not ju nutrition, it's intelligent nutrition. with 26 vitamins and minerals and 10 gra of protein. all in 3 delicious avor it's choosing to go in one direction...
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proposition 61 is a very, very it is time for theward. pharmaceutical industry to stop the entire nation is looking at pharmacepacalifornia.ry. e... let's go forward together. thank you all very much. i have great respect for the fact that the fbi and the department of justice are now
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willing to have the courage to right the horrible mistake that they made. >> donald trump has said he will appoint a special prosecutor with one goal in mind. to put hillary clinton in jail over her use of a private e-mail server. but while clinton might be number one on trump's revenge list, it's a mighty long list. joining me, former white house council for the nixon administration, john dean. i start with you first, john dean. you know more about this type of personality than probably anyone else that we could have called on today. the idea of donald trump wanting to use the presidency in part to punish hillary clinton, and now today being fueled because of this fbi october surprise, for lack of a better word. your thoughts. >> well, he is a man with deep revenge, and collected a lot of enemies. the first thing he shouldn't do
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is record his conversations in the oval office. that would be the opener. >> especially him, given what we heard on that "access hollywood" bus. >> absolutely, absolutely. but, you know, this idea of his appointing a special prosecutor to prosecute his opponent is really unsettling. this isn't the way mature democracy thinks. and first of all, i think he would have a lot of trouble getting his attorney general to do it. theoretically, a president could do it himself. but it would really upset department of justice, and i just -- it's not going to happen. it's just not going to happen. >> gideon, it sort of depends on who the attorney general is, right? rudy guiliani an ewould be happy to do it. i'm sorry, john, really quickly. gideon and then john. >> either rudy guiliani or chris christie if he survives the bridge gate trial.
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either one of those people might fit a political agenda that donald trump is putting forward that has solely to do with prosecutoring hillary clinton. but yeah, it doesn't seem like such a good idea in practice, once you actually get to a white house administration. >> yeah. and so john, you had another thought. >> well, i don't think that either rudy or chris christie could get confirmed. they might find themselves with a filibuster, given the way they've handled themselves in the campaign. the democrats have long memories, too. >> yeah, absolutely. i want to go through a couple of the other thing that donald trump has threatened to do and get you guys' take on whether these sound practical. let's go to -- this is number four on our list. this is donald trump threatening the women who have accused him of sexual misconduct. >> every woman lied when they came forward to hurt my campaign. total fabrication. the events never happened.
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never. all of these liars will be sued after the election is over. >> gideon, the pragmatism of that kind of threat. what do you think? >> yeah, it's ridiculous. you know, these are frivolous lawsuits that he threatens all of the time. when the "new york times" publishes a story he doesn't like, it's a lawsuit. when women accuse him of things that he may or may not have done in the past, it's another lawsuit. this is just the litigious nature of trump. frequently caught up in these situations where he himself is, in fact, being sued for legitimate means, and ends upturning them back around at anybody who seeks to slight him in any sense of the word. >> yeah. and so more to the point, though, john dean, is that he has also threatened to go after the media. so change the rules so that the media could be sued for a story that let's say a president or someone in his administration didn't like. how does that strike you? >> first of all, he will bring a number of lawsuits in with him,
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where he indeed is the defendant in some of those lawsuits, where he's being counter sued. as a result of what happened during the clinton administration with ken starr, the supreme court has ruled that indeed a president can be civilly sued while he's sitting in office. there's no immunity. so that's the first thing. he's going to bring a lot of lawsuits with him. as far as your second question was, joy? >> whether or not donald trump could really try to go after the media to use the powers of the irs or whatever the fcc to go after media companies. >> well, he's talked about liberalizing the libel laws. he can't do that. that's controlled by the supreme court. with "new york times" versus sullivan and that -- the prodigy that came out of all those fellow cases there. they really dictate that body of law. and that's not anything a president can really do or a congress, for that matter, if he can get a congress to go along. so i -- as far as going after the media, using the fcc, that's
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pretty tough. the departments and agencies do not like that kind of business. and somebody in the department who is a long-time career person is going to blow the whistle on that, as soon as that sort of thing starts happening. >> yeah. and gideon, the relationship you would anticipate between a trump white house and the media would -- presumably be very rocky. what do you think? >> yeah. he's, you know, had these scenarios where he's just virtue lent liang tag nice particular toward the media. there is no indication he's a proponent of the first amendment in a lot of senses. even in terms of the campaign press that have been covering him for months and months and months. he doesn't allow them to be on their plane with him. he doesn't allow these sort of interactions and things like that. and in recent weeks, also sort of parsed down all of the media appearances he does to the safe havens of sean hannity on fox news. there is not any indication he would be friendly to the press
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if he were to win and he would give them any kind of access to him the way that other presidents have in the past. >> yeah. except, perhaps, to promote his hotels and golf properties, which we didn't have time to get into. gideon resnick and john dean, thank you very much for being here. and coming up, what a commander-in-chief trump would do to america's place in the world. more "a.m. joy" after the break. ♪ using 60,000 pois from my cse ink card i bought all the framework... wire... and plants needed to gi my shop... a face... e wh the powf poin can do f your siness.
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someing new has arrived. ♪ uniquely designed for the dren. introducing the first-ever infini qx30 crosver. visit your local infiniti retailer today. i don't know putin. he said nice things about me. if we got along well, that would be good. putin has outsmarted here and obama at every single step of the way. what do you call a relationship? >> i'm asking you. >> we were both on "60 minutes," we were stable mates, we did very well that night. he's been a leader far more than our president has been a leader. he said donald trump is a genius and he's going to be the leader of the world. >> an affinity for putin is one
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part of trump's foreign policy that sets american foreign policy experts hair on fire. joining me is steve clemens. good morning, steve. we know that ooh national security officials have put out a warning about donald trump, they put out a letter, essentially saying he would put the nation's security at risk. to what do we attribute those fears? >> well, i think a number of things. michael morell, former deputy director of the cia basically accused donald trump of being a tool of vladimir putin. i joined on twitter, saying i wonder if vladimir putin would get the first dinner in the trump white house. >> the issue there is more than vladimir putin and wanting to cozy up to russia. he is throwing off the entire strategic map of hugging america's enemies right now, while at the same time, putting our allies on edge that unless they pay up, unless they do more to earn our affection, attention and support, that he will not be
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there for their time in need. we've got russia carving up ukraine, threatening eastern europe, and that is a big problem. he has questioned nato, he said japan and south korea, not only ought to pay more for protection but ought to nuclearize. donald trump in just a few speeches has thrown the entire strategic map of the united states into disarray. if he were to win the white house, i think that every nation in the world that has been allied with us is going to wonder whether we're there for them or not. >> on the points you just made about nuclear weapons, let's play a couple donald trump sound bites. this is one in which he's talking with our own chris matthews at one of these town halls, and he talks about the use of nuclear weapons. take a listen. >> they're hearing -- guy running are for president of the united states, talking about making using nuclear weapons. nobody wants to hear that. >> why are we making them? >> you tell the middle east we're not using a nuclear weapon. >> i would never take my cards off the table. >> what about europe? >> have you ever heard somebody who wants to be president,
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steve, make that kind of an assertion that essentially this casual idea of using nuclear weapons? >> no. i mean, he's gone beyond to say hey, we have them, why don't we use them? it's a remarkable, naivete and ignorance about american power, how it works, what destruction really means, and the recklessness of -- of just the innuendo in his words is so dramatic that it would really create a crisis from day one of his presidency. and i think that if he were to become president of the united states, the strategic crowd is going to have to sit down with him and educate the guy very quickly, because these are no laughing matters. we're laughing today, sort of on halloween weekend, and we think it's kind of amusing in some quarters. but it's not at all. and it really is shaking the international system. if hillary clinton were to win, she is going to have to still explain how someone like him got as much support as he did, and they too are going to be worried about the solvency of their
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relationship with the united states. >> i want to play one other thing that's no laughing matter, trump talking about what he would do if iranian ships and people on them were to make gestures he didn't like. take a listen. >> and by the way, with iran, when they circle our beautiful destroyers with their little boats, and they make gestures at our people, that they shouldn't be allowed to make, they will be shot out of the water. okay? believe me. >> steve, what would happen if an american president were to order the american military to shoot iranian boats out of the water for making gestures? >> very possibly world war three. because when you have something like that, it reminds prince ferdinand being sat natusas mat. you could have very quickly an escalation that involved the world's great powers. he's talked about how great his
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temper meant is. people talk about him being near the buttons. there are lots of other weapons that could trick us into a nuclear war or an escalation with russia, with china, with iran, with india and pakistan, that really set off a kind of chain reaction, if you will, globally. that would be just really unbelievable. unbelievable, unbelievable, unbelievable. and he is reckless with his words and possibly his behavior if he were to be president of the united states. >> to say nothing of the fact while james comey didn't put it in a memo or do a press conference, you still have an ongoing investigation of former trump aides and their ties to russia that would be ongoing in a trump administration, presumably the professionals would keep it going even if the political appointees did not want to. steve clemens, thank you very much for being here. appreciate it. >> my pleasure, joy. >> thank you. more "a.m. joy" after the break. ilneon on the road again ♪ [ rear alert sounds ][ mus] ♪ just can't wait to get on the roaagain ♪
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when you're a star, they let you do it. you can do anything. >> whatever you want. >> grab them by the [ bleep ]. >> donald trump calls it locker room talk. it's easy to see why the idea of a donald trump presidency is frightening for many women. it's not the only tape that shows donald trump belittling and objectifying women. in a video, newly unearthed by the huffington post, trump decides, in his words to get even with a former miss universe after she apparently declined to introduce him at an event in australia. so he called her up on stage. >> this is about getting even. i was so angry at her yesterday. seriously. because as i said, i thought that she dised me. so i was actually going to get up and tell you that jennifer is a beautiful girl on the outside, but not very bright. but that wouldn't have been
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true, but i would have said it anyway. >> and then he went on to make this little joke. >> so what happened is, i -- you know -- she came tonight. she came. . she came. see -- filthy minds. >> and then after she explained herself and apologized, trump went in for the kiss. >> i'm sorry. i feel really bad. >> i don't know too many women that are -- >> meanwhile, a 12th woman said this week trump touched her inappropriately. the former miss finland said trump grabbed her by the rear end while posing for a photograph in 2006. trump denied the accusations and at one point threatened to sue them. joining me now is liz smith, former deputy campaign manager
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for martin o'malley. ladies, i want to talk about -- i don't know if you've been seeing in your social media time lines as i have, a lot of women's alarm bells going off. michael d'antoni oon earlier and described what trump does as an act. but tony schwartz who knows him really well describes it as something much more than that. sort of -- i don't know. an attitude toward other people that lacks humanity and lacks compassion. liz, if donald trump were to be president and he were to sort of set the culture of the country, which presidents do, what do you think that would mean for women? >> i think the much troubling thing, this is a guy who judges women's worth solely on their attractiveness and his desire to cop late with them, the way he talks about women, he ranks them on a 1 to 10 scale and it sends a really bad message to women, to young girls that their only value in life is their looks. it's not their branls, not their talent, not their kindness, not their generosity, it's not their
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work. it's how they look, and that's a very damaging message for young girls. and that's why you hear people like, for instance, my sister, won't let her daughters watch donald trump on tv, because she doesn't know what they're going to hear. and she doesn't want them to judge themselves just on this 1 to 10 attractiveness scale. >> and bhmaria, sometimes we overelevate what the presidency is. they can't do everything that people think they can wave a magic wand without congress, which is the first branch of government. one thing presidents do is set the tone. in the obama era, the obamas kind of set the tone for what the country believes itself to be. they're like our national avatar. donald trump -- sort of vulgarity of him, what does that do to our sort of national sense of self? >> so, you know, i've been thinking about what was going on when i was 6 years old, and george wallace was running for president, and i remember talking to my best friend who is jewish about where we were going to hide if he won. that was many, many years ago, right? and i still don't forget that
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moment. so i'm thinking about the young girls, you know, who are seeing this. it's everywhere, on the newspapers, front page. how they're interpreting this. we don't know how deep it's going to go. i mean, the good part about getting older is, like, i don't care. i don't care what you say. it's not going to affect me. and how i feel about myself. but the younger women, my daughter, and you know what? in a trump presidency, here's the problem. we need more women becoming engaged in the political process. we want more women running for office across the board. i worry in a trump presidency what it's going to do is just turn women off to the political process. they're just going to be like this is not for me. and that -- that's a loss for our entire country. it's not just the loss for one president. it's a loss for our country. and that's real. >> yeah. let's talk about some of the pragmatic things. trump would be in a position to appoint members of the supreme court, and we know that roe v. wade, a lot of young women finding out it hangs in the
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balance. people thought it was settled in 1973. this is a town hall with chris matthews in march when he talked about whether or not he thought women should be published for abortion. take a listen. >> do you believe in punishment for abortion, yes or no, as a principle? >> the answer is that it has to be some form of punishment. >> for the woman. >> yeah, there has to be some form. i have not determined what the punishment -- >> why not? >> and set that aside. now let's hear what he says about the man involved in an unplanned pregnancy. take a listen. >> what about the guy that gets her pregnant? is he responsible under the law for these abortions? or is he not responsible for an abortion? >> it hasn't -- different feelings, different people. i would say no. >> i would say no, liz. not responsible. >> yeah. well, it's indicative of his world view. and when it comes to what a woman's right to choose. his first big decision was putting mike pence on the ticket. and mike pence has been one of the most anti choice governors -- the most anti
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choice governors in the country with the most extreme abortion bill that he signed into law. so, look, donald trump has been so cavalier in the way he's talked about a woman's right to choose, the way he talked about it in the debate the other night. clearly he doesn't believe women have the right to make decisions, their own health care decisions and i think women should be concerned about what he would do as president and how he views our agency in all of this. >> and maria, i thought it was really important for lawrence to set up the limits of what a trump president could actually accomplish. you know, he is sort of pulling the wool over a lot of his supporters' eyes. he would owe the supreme court nominations he promised. there is no way to get around that. the decision would be made by republicans in congress who they themselves have to answer to the far right. so we're talking about the overturning of roe and the empowering of mike pence who made women in indiana have funerals if they had a miscarriage. for the fetus. funerals for an abortion or miscarriage.
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that's a real threat to women. >> right. so i'm going to take it to the silver lining part of it. all of this, while it is depressing and it feels disempowering to many women, the flip side, and we have seen this in our history in this country, is it could potentially motivate a woman's movement in the united states like we have never seen before or haven't seen since the 19 -- that i haven't seen since the 1960s or '70s. if that happens, then we flip the narrative, right? and women are, in fact, saying, hold on, hold on, hold on. we are not going to law you to do this. we are not going to allow you to set the narrative about who we are. and to tell us that we have to be punished. i haven't been talked that way since my dad and even then i was like, pappy, come on. what do you mean? so the flip side, and i think part of the conversation about a real trump presidency has to be not what dear president jimmy carter said, which is i'm moving to canada. but rather, we have to stay, we
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have to own our american role in democracy. and own our voices. we cannot allow a presidency like this to disempower and take away our voices. so, you know, what young women are going to do, who knows. but i know that they are fired up, and that they -- we might be seeing something we can't even predict. >> and to that very point, we're even seeing among conservative women, liz. we saw megyn kelly, who is a conservative journalist, top-ranked host on fox news stand up to the exact kind of trumpian bhenlt mentality, stephen bannon, rudy guiliani, they're even taking on to tv, the way they talk to people interviewing them on television. starting to manifest right there. megyn kelly stood up to newt gingrich and shut him down. so are we seeing on the flip side of this kind of depressing trump annism, women saying, wait a minute, we're not going to take it. >> yeah and from republican
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women. and what will be interesting to see is where the republican party goes on november 9th, where they go post november 8th. because i -- you know, it's my opinion a lot of these republicans who stood by donald trump throughout, you know, sexual assault allegations, and all language, they will have to answer to women. what side were you on? were you on the side of women in the election, were you on the side of the guy who, you know, allegedly sexually assaulted all these women, and, you know, talked so crassly about them. and that's something that will haunt the republican party for months and years to come, i believe. >> and in one of the things, maria, we are seeing is a coming together of women of color who are traditionally democratic-leaning who this year are even more so. really donald trump getting routed among women of color and also white women starting to move in that direction, particularly white women with a college degree. >> you know what's interesting, when all of this broke, the lack of presence of women of color in the conversation. i mean, it was like -- as if we
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just, you know -- this doesn't happen to us, although i suppose with donald trump it may not, i don't know. which is disgusting. but you know, we are all part of this conversation. right? so for me, the notion of somehow donald trump being able to create this narrative, no. and i think, again, it's going to be the republican women and others who actually start talking to each other about this common ground, was their interest that republican women and democratic and progressive women would actually find this common grouped? that is, again, going to be another unintended consequence, an amazing consequence, potentially, to be able to sit down with republican women, conservative women and find common ground. i think that's fascinating and extraordinarily uplifting in terms of what we could create. >> yeah. and on that uplifting note, i think that's the best place to leave it. we're trying to get people -- >> it's about joy. >> it's about joy!
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>> joy, joy, joy. >> that is an excellent tease. and thank you guys. girl power. coming up at noon, a former ton fbi official discusses the latest wrinkle in hillary clinton's e-mail investigation. but first, the latest on the dakota access pipeline in north dakota. that's next, stay with us. an important message for amicans igible
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david archen bald, and digitous organizer, dallas gold tooth. stay with us.
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the problem is not the presence of police. but the absence of police. we need really a great group of people to keep you safe, to keep us all safe. >> that is donald trump's promise to african-americans, should he win the white house. more police. it was part of what trump called a new deal for black america. in a speech he delivered wednesday in charlotte, before an audience composed mostly of white republicans. trump revisited his bleak vision of african-american communities which he called more dangerous than war zones. and he elaborated in that vision on another speech, elaborated on that vision in another speech thursday where he said this. >> we're going to work on our ghettos so -- you take a look at what's going on where you have pockets of areas of land, where you have the inner cies, you
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have so many things, so many problems. so many horrible, horrible problems. the violence. the death. the lack of education. no jobs. >> joining me now, co founder of empower change. hunter walker for yahoo! news, and campaign zero joining us by phone. brittney, our ghettos. donald trump has promised to expand stop and frisk nationwide. he said that we need more police and essentially revisited his talk about the black community as a hell scape. your thoughts. >> well, you know, he's also asked the african-americans, as he likes to call us, what we have to lose by voting for him. and apparently the answer is our civil liberties. he -- what he is proposing is a police state. nationwide stop and frisk is a nonstarter for us, ineffective
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and racist. in new york, where that practice was undertaken, 87% of folks stopped and frisked were found completely innocent and disproportionately affected black and brown folks, the ones stopped the most. and we're not inherently criminal people. he clearly doesn't know us, we don't all live in the ghetto and this kind of proposal is exactly why it's entirely too dangerous for him to be the in the oval office. >> one of the biggest proponents of donald trump's supposed pitch to black america, really a pitch to white america, let's be frank, has been ruud julie. maybe the most despised new yorker among african-americans who live in new york ever. take a listen to rudy guiliani talking to stephanie rhule about racial guilt. >> i have no racial guilt, not a single bit of it. which is why i'm willing to tell the truth about black crime and what has to be done about it. and there is no mayor in the history of the city that saved more black lives than me. nobody even close.
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>> brittney, quickly. the idea of rudy guiliani saying he saved more black lives than anybody affiliated with black lives matter. >> i find that fascinating. black people don't need saving. we require empowerment in the room to be free. second of all, if you look at rudy guiliani's record on black people, it speaks for itself. black and frisk. like i said, the evidence speaks for itself. i think most people find that laughable. >> and hunter, you brought up during the break, donald trump's history -- colorful. >> with rudy guiliani, he was dropping this line about all the black lives he's saved on me. and i kept asking him, if you were so great for the black community, why did you have single digit approval among african-americans during your time in new york? and he just couldn't answer the question. getting to trump, i think this
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is one of the interesting things about him. he has said he's made a point of doing black outreach. but the people he's got doing this, you've got rudy guiliani, omarosa, mega church pastors, so different from the clinton campaign, where hillary clinton has made this effort to -- i've called it artisanal outreach, find activists within communities and tailor a pitch to each of them. donald trump has these people who may not be popular in the black community coming and make arguments that the community doesn't necessarily want to hear. and that's his outreach. very strange. >> and linda, beyond that, his sort of criminal justice platform at large, also involves, you know, black and brown and muslim communities, all of whom would be on the other side, when it comes to his plans and his ideas. >> oh, we've heard him say things like we need to monitor the mosques, we need to register the muslims in a database, when we hear terms like law and order. we know exactly what he means, and particular the cracking down on social justice movement. we watched protesters expressing their first amendment rights in
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his rallies, either physically beaten or dragged out for doing something constitutional. when he says we want nationwide stop and frisk in new york we proved through supreme court decision, it is unconstitutional. here you have a man who wants to go to the white house, who is basically telling you, i want to do unconstitutional things, and i don't care about the constitution. and if rudy guiliani tells you anything, that should tell you all you need to know about how communities of color are going to be treated under a trump administration. i won't say these things are not already happening, joy. and you already know that. we are already impacted by these issues. so what scares us more, we're already directly targeted. imagine what would happen under a trump administration where people are going to be unapologetic about violating the civil rights of americans. >> that is the concern, even for media. being a part of it, that you're watch egg these communities of color, trying to stand up their rights and already being -- having their rights violated by law enforcement. what would it be like under trump. and you made the point earlier, he doesn't treat his own
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supporters at rallies well. an african-american supporter who showed up and he got thrown out. >> this incredible moment on wednesday evening, trump in north carolina, and this man who said he was an ex-marine, attempting to deliver a letter to donald trump. >> a report. >> no, the letter was actually telling trump to talk about african-americans more nicely. and as he approached the stage, trump pointed at him and said are you a paid thug and had security escort him out. >> step one, figure out who african-americans are and thugs are. thank you very much. that is our show for today. be sure to tune into "a.m. joy" tomorrow, 10:00 a.m. eastern. next, the clinton investigation. stay with us on msnbc. ♪ ♪ ♪
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