it's pretty strange to put something like that out with such little information right before an election. in fact, in fact, it's not just strange, it's unprecedented, and it is deeply troubling. >> and i will tell you without knowing anything the only reason, the only reason that they did this action that you saw yesterday was very, very serious things must be happening and must have been found. >> good morning and welcome to "a.m. joy." it's just over a week before election day, and we're still talking about hillary clinton's damn e-mails. that's thanks to fbi director
james comb who on friday notified congress that the fbi had found more e-mails and may or may not be relevant to the agency's investigation into clinton's use of a private e-mail server while she was secretary of state. that investigation has turned up no evidence of criminal wrongdoing by clinton but has been used by republicans to bludgeon the candidate at every turn. now, comey himself is under fire amid reports that he violated department of justice policy, not to mention decades of precedent, that advises against making statements that could potentially affect the outcome of an impending election. several democratic senators have called on the fbi to release more information by monday, including whether the e-mails, quote, are even in the custody of the fbi, whether any of the e-mails have been reviewed or whether secretary clinton sent or received them or whether they even have any significance to the investigation. joining me now from dallas is senior writer for "newsweek"
kirk eikenwald. donald trump said on the stump that there would be no reason for the fbi to make the announcement that james comey didn't if they hadn't, quote, discovered something big. does that make sense to you? >> well, only if we can say that james comey is lying. we don't know what's in them. we don't know if it's relevant. we think it's relevant. we don't know if there's anything class night. we don't know. here's my letter. i mean, it -- it is -- it was the height of irresponsibility because, you know, everybody is taking this scenario and trying to make it into an exclamation point when in fact comey's letter was a question mark. you know, his entire basis of what he was saying was we don't know what any of this means and that's why it was so irresponsible for him to put out
the letter at all. >> there's some reporting out there that the fbi isn't even in possession of the e-mails themselves because they have not yet obtained a warrant to actually review huma abedin's e-mails. is that your understanding, and if that's the case, does that mean that jim comey put out this information before his department has even actually read or reviewed the e-mails? >> oh, well they couldn't have reviewed all the e-mails with or without a warrant. you know, and an investigative process doesn't -- doesn't happen in ten seconds, and, you know, when -- when donald trump is saying they wouldn't have done it without. well, that, you know, would be a logical assumption but it's wrong and really what happened here is -- is just a major policy violation by comey. i could understand if -- i mean, comey has been making huge
mistakes from the beginning. the way the fbi is supposed to talk about an investigation is to say we've made no referral for prosecution, and that's it. you're not supposed to be going in and talking about here's my impression of the meaning of this. you're not supposed to be talking about anything. investigations are not actually closed unless there is a recommendation by the fbi for prosecution. the prosecutors decide to prosecute. it goes to court. there's a conviction, the case is closed. when you have an investigation, the case stays open. more evidence can be evolved and comey testified if we get more evidence we'll look at it, you know, of course, because that's the way procedures work, and so what happened was they got more evidence, maybe. they don't know, and -- and they are going to look at it, and -- and now everyone in the country
is confused or furious. i mean, i've been talking to people -- i know a lot of people in the fbi, i know a lot of people in the justice department and a lot of people formerly in the justice department, and it is universal fury at comey that, you know, he has done something that is -- is going to damage the reputation of the fbi for years to come and if it starts really changing the polls, if there's an effect on the election where, you know, because comey put out a letter that no fbi director should ever have done saying, well, we found something and we don't know what it is, if that changes the outcome of the election, the fbi will never recover. it will -- this will make, you know, the -- the scandals of the hoover years look like nothing. >> and, you know, whether or not hillary clinton becomes the next
president of the united states or donald trump somehow manages to, could there be consequences for comey because it seems to me that there are two issues here. you have the one issue that you made the point that he's damage the the reputation of the fbi. jamie gorelick and larry thompson, two former deputy attorneys general, one for a democrat and one for a republican, put out a scathing editorial. i'll just read a little piece of it. first the fbi director james comey put himself enthusiastically forward as the arbiter of not only whether to prosecute a criminal case which is not the job of the fbi but also best practices and the handling of e-mail on the matters and now he's chosen personally to restrike the balance between transparency and fairness. they described it as sort of reality show law-making where he's giving updates on a continual basis, by the second piece, apart from that, is the question of whether or not the fbi when they interviewed huma abedin somehow managed to not ask her for all of her laptops, because one of the things that seems to have come forward here
is that there was an additional device they didn't have in the first place. could there be any consequences here, and has this revealed that the fbi was derelict the first time around because how did they not have this laptop before? >> well, to a larger degree this is a function of, you know, e-mails completely. i mean, the fbi does not get every device that could have any piece of information on it and, you know, if they did, these cases would take -- they would be endless. they would never -- they would never get resolved so it's not surprising that they did not have this particular device. does huma abedin even know why there are e-mails on -- on -- on this laptop? from what i've heard she's telling people she doesn't know. she doesn't know what e-mails they are talking about, so, you
know, you rk, i want to point e editorial that i mentioned, larry thompson is a dyed in the wool republican. he was very high level in the justice department under george w. bush. a guy with a lot of integrity. people might say well, gorelick was a democrat, let's set her aside. larry thompson is saying exactly what i'm hearing from other justice department people, you know. the phrase is comey is swimming out of his lane. he is an investigator. he is not a prosecutor. and the way these procedures are supposed to work are that, you know, the fbi develops information. they put together a memo, particularly in cases involving public officials. they send it to the -- to the department of justice and, again, in public official cases it goes up the line for a determination of prosecution.
well, all of that has been turned on its head. you know, comey used to be the number two at the justice department, and if an fbi director had done this to him, i have no doubt comey would be out there seeking the guy to be fired. >> it's interesting. we'll talk a little bit later in the show about just that aspect of it because his boss is the attorney general and we're used to hearing the attorney general speak on these matters of prosecution, not the director of the fbi. your reporting can be found at "newsweek".com so check that out. thank you. >> thank you. up next, two numbers out of two key battle -- new numbers out of two key battleground states, florida and north carolina. stay with us for that. cke mb, j, jack knocked over calestick on the shag carpetg... ...a hisants ignited in flames, caing hito on thestop, drop and roll. luckily jack receny had geico help him
maas maas >> i'm winning in certain polls, and then in other polls, the dirty polls we call them, i was losing by, you know, numbers that were ridiculous. >> yeah. i have all the polls here. >> i mean, i think we're winning, but, bill, you look at some of these polls it's absolutely ridiculous. the only ones i really like are the ones that i'm winninging. >> at least you're honest. >> hey, bill, something is going on. bill, something's going on with the polls. >> new nbc/"wall street journal"/marist polls from the key swing state in the north carolina were released this morning. here's what's going on in those clean/dirty polls depending on how donald trump feels about them. in north carolina clinton is leading trump by six points but in florida the candidates are running neck and neck ration towards the finish line. clinton polls at 45% while trump has 44%. unlike clinton trump actually
needs to win florida but with early voting under way is the fbi's october surprise enough to change the temperature in the sunshine state? joining me now are the nation's joan's walls, jonathan cape hart, former pollster cornell bechcher and fernand amandi and strategist jamal simmons. let's talk about whether or not the new fbi bombshell or october surprise could possibly change the race. there's a new abc tracking poll that's out that finds that 34% of likely voters say they are less likely to vote for hillary clinton. this is that tracking poll. i don't know what, if anything, that means, but let me go to you on this, cornell. is that a meaningful number for you as a pollster? >> the 30% is kind of low but it depends who the 30% are. are those voters who tend to be republican anyway, and a lot of this, joy, as you know, and, you know, i'm going to pedalt dirty
polls, but a lot of this, joy, you know, to a certain extend it's baked in, the "usa today" poll came out, 6% or 7% of people still out there undecided. typically, you know, and hillary clinton in this race is sort of the incumbent even though she's not literally the incumbent and typically, you know, in races undecided voters break more heavily for the challenger. the problem is donald trump is not a very good vessel for that because his numbers are still 30 points under water and he makes the case about hillary not being trustworthy voters don't picture him as more trustworthy. i do think the polls will tighten up this week because quite frankly in the battleground. democrats won't win a battleground state by five or six points so they will tighten up. republicans will begin to come home this week in a way that tightens this race up a lot. >> let's look at the state where that matters the most because this is a state-by-state situation. not a national race as we think of it. the must-win states for donald
trump, florida, north carolina, pennsylvania and ohio. joan walls, any of those states seem plausible for donald trump at this point? >> i guess florida does, you know. it's really close. she's lost a few points, but, you know, we don't know. we still vent seen polls that tell us what the real reaction to this -- i hate calling it a bombshell. >> yeah. >> but this news, is and i think that's going to take a few days. that abc tracking poll is always volatile. it dropped six points for her before the comey news. so something odd is going on. i'm not saying it's a dirty poll. >> it's odd. >> it's odd. >> it's a little bit more volatile so, you know, i think florida is possible. pennsylvania is not possible. north carolina hard to say, but they have got an early -- the clinton folks have an early voting operation there that is unrivaled. >> so let's talk florida there and look at our nbc/"wall street journal"/marist poll.
among florida likely voters hillary clinton and donald trump neck and neck. white voters with a college degree in florida in our poll donald trump is up two points -- or three points over hillary clinton, 47-44. what does that tell you fernand, if anything? >> in florida, as cornell said earlier, the ultimate battleground prize, going to be close no matter what. barack obama had a jewel of a ground operation in 2012 and only managed to win the state by less than a percentage point, but what has changed since then, joy, the state has gotten more hispanic and certainly a little bit less white in its ethnic composition and i think that, coupled with the fact that even the trump campaign and surrogates recognize there is no ground operation in florida, suggests to me while it may be tight, it's certainly not going to be a five or six-point blowout for the clinton campaign. she seems on path to win, and, joy, a lot of nokes ask me, a
lot of democrats and clinton supporters say do i have reason to be worried on november 8th that this thing is not going to work out, and i say unequivocally yes. you have reason to be worried but nothing that a good pair of safety goggles can't solve because there's 100% forecast of raining glass. you're going to see glass ceilings shattered all across america because hillary clinton is going to win this election. let's be honest. >> bringing the props. >> got to -- >> you can maybe stay with florida, our latino numbers in the nbc/"wall street journal"/marist poll, jamal, hillary clinton is up big with latinos and with african-americans pretty much a blowout, 93-4 but the big question is whether or not african-american turnout will match that magnitude in terms of intensity. what are we seeing in terms of african-american voter intensity
in this election because hillary clinton needs that? >> you know, joy, we did some work with the poll out of the university of chicago and one of the things they found when you look at millenials hillary clinton's support is about the same level of support that barack obama had in 2012, brut f you look at latinos and african-americans, there's a lag of 11% among latinos and african-americans and one of the things that the campaign is so good at in terms of its mechanics is they are trying to find those voters and turn them out and get them to the polls in the old school knock and drag sort of way that we all who work in politics sort of came up learning to do and they will have to do it. >> let's look at one of the ways they are doing that. jds uniphase who helped out a lot in 2008. he came out in florida and did some concerts, if you registered to vote or early vote the he'll be helping out in cleveland and let talk ohio.
the polling shows this is donald trump's best state outside of iowa. what are we looking at there? are african-americans in cuyahoga county going to come out or white suburbanites in hamilton county going swing that state for trump? >> if black voters come out, one great way to try to get them to come out is to do a concert with jay-z. it's very smart to get as much hall wood star power or entertainment star power and certainly african-american entertainment star power to give people a reason to come out and see them and also to remind them that they are -- that they are there for hillary clinton. now in, terms of donald trump and the map that you showed before, one of those states that is a state that donald trump must win is ohio, and as we all know, no republican has won the white house without winning ohio, so as much as donald trump needs florida in order to become the next president. united states, he definitely needs ohio, and if -- if hillary
clinton can pull off -- not only snatching florida but also ohio, thenfernand's fabulous analogy of having to wear safety glasses because of raining glass will come true and it all comes down to turnout. jamal raises a very good point that if millenials are not enthusiastic about hillary clinton in the ways they were for president obama, that could pose a problem, but, again, if the clinton campaign has a superior ground operation and can successfully, what did you say, knock and drag? >> knock and drag. >> knock and drag. >> the millenial voters to the polls, then i think she will come across the finish line not just the winner but with a lot of african-american votes from across age ranges. >> well, let's go to cornell on that. cornell, you've been working on some focus groups that have answered some of this question,
not in a very good way necessarily for the clinton campaign. how much intensity is there for clinton, against trump, what are we looking at in terms of millenial voters? >> that's really the "x" factor. the millenial generation is the most diverse, disproportionately made up of brown people, right, and that's the key. i almost don't even care about the percentage that she's winning over trump with hispanics or african-americans. i'm going to assume that's going to be a large percent. what i'm concerned about is what proportion of the electorate do they make up. in 2012 and 2008 younger voters made up a larger swath of the electorate than seniors and they broke for barack obama and seniors broke, of course, for the republican. in 2010 and 2014 in the off years seniors made up a large swath. if going into the election seniors make up a larger swath of the electorate than do younger people, she's probably not going to be president of the united states. if in fact the electorate is 74,
73% white, she's probably not going to be president of the united states, so in the close here, bringing that enthusiasm and getting the obama-like turnout especially in florida where you need to wear your goggles apparently is going to be critical for her to get across the finish line. >> i never thought anybody could outdo jonathan cape hart in eye wear so that is a coup for fernand. let's do a quick lightning round and you tell me what you think is going to be the state that pay attention to on election night. which is the state that we should stay up and watch to see where this election is going. i'll start with you, joan walls. >> north carolina. >> that number is actually shock being, the lead that our polling is showing for hillary clinton. >> it is shocking. it doesn't feel that big, but we've also got a lot of down ballot. debra ross for senate, roy cooper for governor. we've got reverend barber leading people to the polls.
a lot of ferment. there's a movement there that i think is really exciting. >> all right. lightning round style, let's go to jonathan cape hart who has the "b" eye wear, the b-lister, shocking for the american people. >> i know, i'm shocked and appalled but i'm going to agree with joan that north carolina is the state, and it's the state because barack obama won it in 2008 but he lost it in '12 so to get north carolina that is a gain for hillary clinton, and that's a state i'm watching but that's also the state that the clinton campaign is watching. >> yeah. jamal simmons, state to watch? >> i was super impressed by all of cornell belcher's figures, must be in his new book "a black man in the white house." >> well said. >> you get the plug with that one. >> that's a friend assist. >> if the host fails, the fri d friend, north carolina and also
new hampshire because i think the way the presidential election goes will also determine who wins that senate see. as a matter of fact, we may not know whether or not the senate maggie hasan is pulling hillary clinton across the finish line or hillary clinton will pull maggie hasan across the finish line but i think they finish together. >> wow. let's go to friend cornell. what's the name of it again, cornell? >> "a black man in the white house." go pick it up today. >> yes. >> i'll be reading that as i watch north carolina come in because i'm going to agree that north carolina is critical, and if democrats are weighing north carolina republicans are not wing the country and an african-american candidate there also on the battle, african-american woman statewide hoping to sort of gin up more minority candidate. >> fernand, everybody is watching north carolina, what is the state to watch? do we daresay it's anything but florida? >> one in doubt cite the russert rule.
florida, florida, florida, watch out for raining glass. >> florida, florida, florida. >> the only thing i can do to try to take down amandy in this segment, very difficult, hillary clinton up four in alaska. we don't have the graphic. just have to trust me on this. maybe it's a dirty poll. >> maybe. >> maybe alaska is going to be the exciting state. let's give it up for the state that nobody gives a break to. they can come back from being the state of sarah palin. they can be the state that changed america. thanks very much. a great panel. joan walls, and jonathan cape hart. cornell belcher, pick up his book, great christmas give, fernand, go get yourself some goggles and jamal, we just love you. bye, guys. coming up, will conservative women turn their backs on the party of trump? stay with us. or fill a big order expand yo office antaken whatever comes nex
that she had released all of the e-mails from the get-go we wouldn't be having this conversation. >> well, that's true. but i -- i don't know where this e-mail came from. >> apparently weiner. >> oh, god, anthony weiner. i should not comment on anthony weer wiener. i'm not a big fan. >> up next, a panelch four republican women on the choice they face in this election and in the republican party after november 8th. stay with us. cough shh.
if trump is a sexual predator, that is -- >> he's not a sexual predator. >> okay. that's your opinion. i'm not taking a position. >> you can't defend that statement. i'm sick and tired of people like you using language that's inflammatory that's not true. >> excuse me, mr. speaker. >> donald trump was not -- >> you have no idea whether it's true or not. >> and neither do you. >> that's right, and i'm not taking a position on it. >> you are fascinated with sex and you don't care about public policy. >> me, real me? >> that's what i get out of watching you tonight.
>> you know what, mr. speaker. i'm not fascinated by sex but i am fascinated by the protection of women. >> the showdown between fox news host megyn kelly and former house speaker newt gingrich underscores the tension between the gop and some conservative women, but donald trump, he loved it. >> congratulations, newt, on last night. that was an amazing interview. amazings. we don't play games, newt, right? we don't play games. >> now trump needs women's vote and things like the 2005 "access hollywood" tape and the now 12 women accusing trump of sexual misconduct are to put it mildly unhelpful. take conservative voter mary beth glenn who called out the men in her party in an epic tweet storm writing, quote, i'm so done. if you can't stand up for women and unendorse this piece of human garbage you deserve every
charge of sexism thrown at you, unquote. i'm joined by an all-star panel of conservative women, msnbc analyst elise jordan, digital communications director, republican vat gist and amy kramer, founder of the women vote trump pac. thank you all for being here. this is going to be great and i'll start with you elise here at the table. there's new polling out abc/"washington post" tracking poll that shows hillary clinton up over donald trump 51 to 41 with women and sort of the reverse with men. that poll doesn't pars it out by race. if you take out women of color, it's a lot closer, but you're even starting to see republican women, conservative women, suburban white women trending away from donald trump. does the overall atmospherics of the trump campaign, you've been doing lots of focus groups and going around talking to women, the overall atmosphere, the man cave at mott fear, the newt gingrich stuff, is that hurting donald trump with conservative women? >> i think that it really puts
women on -- who are on the fence, it really sends them over the edge because it comes down to a basic question of temperament and that is what this election is all about, so you have women who wanted to vote for trump and then it's alina machado tweets in the middle of the night. it's the "access hollywood," all the incidents that really make them fundamentally question is he stable enough to be president and that's hillary clinton he's message that he isn't stable enough. >> it isn't just newt gingrich, sarah. you've got dan skovino, a senior trump adviser, social media director or digital communications, after the megyn kelly dustup with newt gingrich, he tweets megyn kelly made a total foofl herself attacking donald trump. watch what happens to her half this election is over. megyn kelly happens to be probably the most -- probably the most popular personality on fox news. she's a woman who isn't associated with feminism but now
being hailed as kind of this feminist hero for going after -- or for going, you know, being tough on the trump men. what does the -- not just donald trump himself but the people around him, what is that doing to republican women's conception of their hone party, sarah? >> well, i would say that it's incredibly frustrating when you see a news story about an athlete or actor getting away with some crime because they are famous. you shouldn't be able to get away with rape because you can throw a football, and we're getting a similar message honestly from the republican party, that because of this hypothetical promise that donald trump will be able to appoint good conservative supreme court justices that we should overlook decades of bragging about adulterous affairs, disrespect of women, repeated stories of harassment and possibly worse. he's praised jeffrey epstein who went to jail for having sex with underaged girls. this is not somebody who is a role model for women. this is not somebody who respects women despite the fact
that he constantly says no one respects women more than me. he has a very funny definition of the word respect and not the way i define the word. >> amy, i'm sure you hear this among some of your conservative friends, you're still supporting donald trump, how do you react to this? >> joy and i would say to everybody on the panel who thinks that women are breaking away from donald trump. have you seen the rallies with all the pink stein signs everywhere? women support him because her not focused on name-calling or all these allegations and that's exactly what they are is allegations, they are focused on jobs and the economy and national security and health care and they know that he's the only one that's going to turn it around. at the end of the day women are going to vote on what affects their children and their pocketbooks, and like i said, all of this other stuff is allegations. it's all noise. this is a binary choice. it's either donald trump or hillary clinton. we have to decide. >> sarah i think would beg to different that it's a binary
choice. you're supporting evan mcmullin and his running mate is a woman, we should point out as well, and you seem to have already taken jennifer run's advice to heart in terms of where you are going in this election. this is what jennifer rubin, a conservative writer for the "washington post" wrote, hard to imagine independent professional women, real any women, remaining in a party that's so rife with abuse and disrespect, so reminiscent of old-boy networks 30 years out of date. it's not even clear what the party could do to purge itself of the misogyny. while amy is still on board but the polls show she's not in the majority of even particularly suburban women. >> well, yeah, and i would also add that when i was on your show last time and we talked about what donald trump was bragging about, kissing and groping women without their consent. that's sexual assault, and in the days after that appearance i was just buried in messages and phone calls, people i went to
school with, work with, people back home in florida who experienced sexual assault and sexual harassment, women and even some men and the stories were heartbreaking and i realize that had this is something that's a very real issue for a lot of people, and to hear donald trump so callously talk about these things like it's great that he can get away with it and then the republican party leadership to say you are not allowed to be mad about this because we need this guy to get elected. >> sarah, they haven't said that. >> that's the message that we've been getting, that it's not important and it's just locker room talk and it's very frustrating. >> and aim, you even minimized it. you said it's not important essentially. >> listen, i mean, this is the thing, you know, what we've all said that we regret and i do believe that men talk a different way when women aren't around. i know that because i've heard men talking in my kitchen when they didn't think that i was there. >> amy, hold on one second. >> i'm not saying it's okay. i'm not saying it's okay. >> amy, hold on.
>> do you know any men who have admitted touching women in their private parts uninvited? >> no. >> this isn't talking. i want to get sarah in as well. nancy french whosehell for oppo donald trump, they have had death friends and attacked and she wrote a piece in the "washington post" where she said what it's like to experience the 2016 election as both a conservative and a sexual abuse survive and one line from it she says my party, which should have been a place of a certain set of values now shelters an abuser. you also have a judge in texas named lauren parish who has left the republican party over values. she says in short my family values, my christian values, my core beliefs have been disenfranchised by my party's nominee for president and after much deliberation i said it would violate my conscience to continue to be a member of the republican party. which side are you hearing more of, amy kramer side that men
talk this way and it's not important or the other that says my party should be protecting us? >> the concerning part is that it's highlighting the fracture witness the evangelical movement and social conservatives and within legal conservatives among women and men and so looking forward past this election republicans are going to have their work cut out for them. this gender gap is closing in the last few weeks here, it's gone from 20 points at its high point to now it looks like about 10 points in a state like virginia, and that is because women are coming home to the party. however, i think ming forward if hillary clinton wins, tim kaine's seat will be hope in virginia, it will be extraordinarily important that republicans, if they want women to continue to be members of this party, show that donald trump was an outlier, not what the party stands for. these primaries for 2018 which republicans are we picking moving forward will be the question that defines the republican party for the next generation. >> and elise, can the party do that? can the party say that donald trump is not what the party
stands for if you have republican national committee standing foursquare behind him, urging people to vote for him, marco rubio saying he's distasteful and urge you to make him president of the united states. >> so many voters really do not see donald trump as a republican and that's the only silver lining for republicans with this entire debacle, just that because donald trump is seen as having gone against the party so frequently, the party isn't completely behind him. there are a lot of divisions. there's a civil war going on that how quickly can the party just cut and run and try to forget that this ever happened. >> do you think there's a possibility that significant numbers of women actually leave the republican party after this is over, or do you think that that fracture winds up healing after this race? >> i think it could be a defining moment for the republican party much like barry goldwater completely ran away african-american voters from the republican party, and, you know, maybe like governor pete wilson in california in '92 with his proposition against illegal immigration and federal benefits and then you look at how that
state went completely blue after, that so, yes, i do think it could be a defining moment. >> very interesting. >> joy, can i say -- >> we're out of time. >> back to what sarah was saying that she's heard messages, we've heard messages from women raped and abuse that had they still support donald trump and can you go to our website at womenvotetrump.com and those stories are up there, some of them, but it's important to know there are women on both sides, and we don't -- i don't condone what trump was saying, i don't think it's right, but at the end. day it's about the issues that affect us as americans in this country. >> and i think that's just important to note that sexual assault is one of the issues that affect women in the country and if someone is bragging about doing, it i don't think it appeals to most women. >> it's in his whole history. >> an ongoing debate taking operation among conservative women. thanks for doing it. really appreciate it. thank you all. >> thank you. all right. in our next hour, voter fraud,
>> the dramatic standoff over the construction of an oil pipeline in north dakota reached a new level this week when hundreds of law enforcement officers moved in to evict demonstrators from a makeshift camp on private land. at least 141 protesters were arrested, some after being pepper sprayed. the clash follows a month-long conflict in which protesters have tried to halt construction of a pipeline that they s will threaten the water supply of the standing rock sioux tribe and destroy their sacred land. joining me are dallas goldtooth, an organizer with the indigenous environmental network and david archibald, chairman of the standing rock sioux tribe. there's disturbing images coming out of this coming out of the protest, one of them is video showing a man with an assault rifle pointing it or at least wielding it in the general direction of pipeline opponents
on thursday. the reporting is saying that he's a security guard for the dakota access pipeline. can you tell us a little bit about what those private security guards for the pipeline have been doing regard to your tribal members. >> well, this is -- this is just another example of what type of company energy transfer partner is and all the companies like enbridge. there has been in the past actions where they used guard dogs without a license to handle guard dogs in north dakota and they used guard dog handlers that were not trained on how to make them calm down. instead, they pushed the guard dogs on protesters. this is the security company and now they have security guards infiltrating and disguising themselves as water protectors
come in and becoming the agitators. we've been maintaining that this is a prayerful, peaceful demonstration, but it's really hard when you have different forces coming at you and boxing you in a corner and then having agitators with assault rifles posing as water protectors. it just creates a dangerous environment and it's not right. >> and just for the audience that's listening to chairman dave archambault, protectors is what they consider themselves, not protesters. dallas goldtooth, you're actually quoted in one of the reports about that assault rifle-wielding man. how are those of you who are out there as protectors as dave archambault stated, how do you distinguish the difference?
>> it's hard to distinguish the difference between there's plain clothe police officers on site so it's actually very difficult. in this situation with this gentleman, he did identify himself as dakota access, working for dakota access. he had i.d. cards on him that identified him as working for dakota access and thank god, i just really have to commend the actions of some of our military veterans who are protectors within the camp and saw the situation and stepped up and de-escalated. they basically became negotiators talking with the man face to face to make sure that he did not shoot anybody, and they were able to hold him at bay until the bureau of indian affairs police officers got on the scene to arrest him. so, you know, it's -- it's just a demonstration that we're faced with a multitude of different types of attacks. we have, as the chairman had stated, it is very difficult when you're trying to remain peaceful and dedicated to a
prayer, that we have to deal with infill traitors who are hell bent to try to make a scene like we're a violent people. the gentleman that -- the guy that was -- the armed gunman here actually threatened was stating to our negotiators that he was being asked to negotiate and instructed to agitate and potentially fire upon police officers within the crowd of our water protectors. what kind of company advocates this type of violence? what kind of company pushes ford this kind of strategy in order to respond to peaceful people who are -- who are peaceful civil disobedience to stop this pipeline. >> chairman archambault, the company energy transfer, the guardian reported this week that donald trump is actually an investor in that company. what do you want to see the presidential candidates do. there's also been a statement from the standing rock youth to clinton on thursday asking her to stand with the tribe during her first 100 days in office if
she's elected. your comments on the two presidential comments and their reactions so far to what is happening. >> with presidential candidate trump, we know what we're up against. i always ask myself who are we up against. we have senators, senator hogan and congressman kramer, representatives of north dakota receiving contributions from their office here from the oil industry. we also have a governor who is very supportive of the oil industry and it's for economic development energy, independence, national security, these are things that they are saying. we also have the unions who are upset with the water protectors who say if we're stopping this pipeline we're hurting jobs. we don't have anything against unions. unions are very powerful force.
we want jobs for them. reroute this the pipeline away from our ancestral lands so we can protect our water. we would be happy. what's going on here is the federal government laws that allow for this pipeline to go throu through. >> now we have a presidential candidate investing in the pipeline, so we don't have anything. we just have unity, prayer and the support around the world. and with secretary clinton, what's going on is she makes a statement that she supports the first amendment right for people to speak out against what's wrong, the laws that are wrong. >> right. >> she also says she wants the workers to have a safe place to work so she really on the fence with the comment. what we understand is we want people to have a safe place to work and we also want clean water. clean water is important to us. >> absolutely.
i'm sorry that we're out of time. chairman dave archambault and dallas goldtooth, thanks for being here, appreciate you both. coming up next, donald trump's rhetoric against the media and the trump campaign's effort to suppress certain votes. more "a.m. joy." ♪ using 60,000 points from my chase ink card bought all theramework... wire... and plants need to give my shop... a face. need tno o wforgetop... e at the perf po can for your buness. len more at chascom/ink
this dishonest media, the world's most dishonest people, terrible people. you can have 100% home run and they will make it look bad. they make it look bad. they are bad people. >> good morning and welcome back to "a.m. joy." donald trump is on the attack against the media as he -- and had received an enthusiastic response from an audience of supporters at phoenix rally saturday night, but one of those supporters made that attack very personal when he directly confronted members of the press who were gathered in the press pen at the event. now, we're going to play some video of his anti-semitic
shouting, and i want to warn you it's obviously offensive and disturbing. >> you're going down. you're the ones working for the devil. >> usa! usa! usa! >> jew-sa. jew-sa. >> jump twain manager kellyanne conway appeared earlier on cnn and here's what she said about that incident. >> we have seen a lot of anti-semites and racists and misogynists who support the trump candidacy. >> wow. >> would you call that man deplorable? >> wow, yes, i works his conduct is completely unacceptable and does not reflect our campaign or our candidate. wow, i have to push back on some of theed a jecttives you used to describe. i hope you've been to trump rallies. these are usa-loving americans who just want -- >> absolutely.
>> who want their country to be prosperous and safe. >> enjoining me now are msnbc political analyst jovan wall, and e.j. deion, former rnc chairman michael steele and rick wilson, senior veras for the evan mcmullen campaign. i've got to go to you, mr. chairman, because the party of lincoln, the party of reagan and the party of eisenhauer n eisenhauer --ines hour -- eisenhower who are not afraid to go on tv screaming something like that man said. what should be the pare be doing to distance itself from the alt-right element that's clearly there, attacking journal i was and clearly anti-semitic and it's open. >> i think the bottom line is exactly what you said. not only do you distance yourself, you emphatically double down on your disdain for that type of behavior and rhett ring. you make it very clear from the
top of the rnc to the top of the presidential campaign that this is not reflective of who we are first off as americans but most especially as republicans, and the fact that there is no categorical denial or distancing of the campaign from this nor has there been outside of the perfunctory, you know, requirement, if you will, i think speaks volumes. the fact that these folks get to come back and they feel free to use the trump campaign as a vehicle for this bs is absolutely stunning to me. >> you know, e.j., i come back to you because you've written so much about this concept of turning points in the republican party and sort of who they are to the rest of the nation. it does feel like there's something in the trump campaign whether it comes to issues of misogyny or these issues of nazism essentially, a form of nassism where there doesn't seem
to be a push that suggests concern that this is becoming an image problem for the party. why do you suppose that is? >> you saw kellyanne conway who knows in the last week of the campaign doesn't help trump so there was that statement, these aren't our people. >> sure. >> but what you've had i think is an encouragement on the part of the republican leadership over the last five, six years, not of this ultra right neo-nazi part but a real disruptive american force in politics where they gain from that, they felt the gain through the tea party, they won in 2010. it's just so deeply oppositional and the leadership has had a kind of approach avoidance thing with it, the whole leadership of the party where they really want these folks out there for energy and for turnout and they try to pretend, well, we don't really -- that's not really us, and i think trump sort of called their bluff. he beat them in the primaries, and it really shows you how right wing the republican party
has become because trump got about 45% of the vote and then ted cruz got 25% of the vote and you really now have about two-thirds of the republican primary electorate, again, these aren't people like that guy. >> sure. >> but this is a very, very conservative party now in a way it wasn't 20, 25 years ago. >> you know, i feel like it's perfect that we seated the two of you next to each other because i do tell people in a lot of ways the books you've kind of written are companions "why the right went wrong" and "joan, "what's wrong with white people" and you talked about this conversion of blue collar democrats, not because of open racism like we saw there but nibbling at the edges of racial anxiety to pull people over. somewhere that balance for the republican party of still trying to do that? we were in lorraine, ohio, talked to union voters who voted for barack obama twice who were tempted by trump, you know, their economic need. is the republican party so afraid of not being able to keep pulling those people over that they don't feel they can push
away people like that guy? >> everybody will -- our republican friends in this panel will push them away. kellyanne did push them away to some extent and there's still too much tolerance of crazy. we have too many debates back in 2010 about how, hey, the tea party is really just people standing up against government. they don't like the deficit rising. they don't like the still lurks and i would say but what about the people with the photos of obama as an african witch doctor with the bone through the nose and michelle out of the "plant of the aepes" and so much racis in the early tea party and ben howe and prominent conservatives saying i should have said something then. i've heard that a lot. >> something real quick to that because i admire your book, too. i think there is a republican problem and a democratic problem. the republican problem is they have got to deal with this
racism, anti-semitism, this ultra right that has entered their ranks, and that's part of this phenomenon. what progressives have to deal with is what you raised is there are people out there hurting from the economy. it's the job of progressives to do something about their problems along with the problems of african-americans and the inner cities and latinos and after this is over progressives got figure out a way to talk to all those groups and say here's what we can do to create growth that's distributed fairly. >> let me get the two gentlemen in who are operating outside of the bounds of the republican party, conservatives, let me start with you,ry, because your candidate evan mcmullen is out there sort of walking that line of trying to i guess in a sense reinvigorate the conservative conservative movement. >> right. >> from outside of the republican party. is that the only way to do it at this point? >> listen, joy, i -- i've worked in the republican party for over 25 years, i've tried to elect conservatives and moderates and
not so moderate republicans in places where they could compete. you can't elect had a hard core alabama conservative in vermont but right now the party has become ideologically homogenous, all become a trump party. they ignored the autopsy report nor 2012 on how we could possibly reform and revive the party. if you look at the 2012 autopsy it's as if donald trump picked every single bullet point and said i'm going to do the exact most destructive racist opposite thing i can do, and he has mainstreamed a lot of these folks who were very much on the fringes and now turned them into part of the shock troops of his very authoritarian inflicted campaign, and i -- i've told this to folks for a while. the racism, the anti-semitism, the xenophobia and misogyny, aren't a bug of donald trump's program, they are a feature. something that's built into him, and if the republican party as its leadership has failed time
and time and time again to hold him to account for the statements and activities, that's why people are looking for new conservative leadership and a new generation of conservative leaders. we may end up with a situation where conservatives do have to form another party because the republican party has become so deeply poisoned by the trump brand. >> yeah. josh, what do you make of that, because there is this rumbling out there that after this election is over there may -- there may be a movement of conservatives out of the republican party to form something new. is that even practical? >> well, i think the party is in a very difficult position because the reason the autopsy report didn't get followed is there's a lot of voters in the party who wanted the opposite of what was in the autopsy. they wanted what donald trump had to offer, and i think the way we talk about donald trump. he's an extremist. i don't know that it's right to call him right wing when you look at other policies. he wants to protect social security and medicare and medicaid. very skeptical of free trade deals and part of it it's like a post-policy white grievance
candidacy. if you're going to try to run up the score so much with white voters that you can win with no minority support, have you to have white voters were a wide variety of policy preferences and basically when you strip away all the policy and say i'm not going to get into the divisive stuff all you have is the white grievance politics so there's a reason as rick says this is a feature if you're going to try to build this coly, you have to be nasty and tolerant of bigots and sexists and such as donald trump has been so i think it's going to be very tough for the republican party. can you follow the instruction of the autopsy and call back a lot of college-educated people who left party and where could would that leave voters who left the trump coalition? some cases they may vote for a new terrorismist political party like all across europe. you see the nationalist parties that are extremists in terms of -- trump most resembles the
far right parties in europe and he's imported this kind of politics into the united states and it's actually very unusual for us to have that. >> and he also now controls a lot of the rnc data. they have merged the trump data with the rnc data. sean spicer is in this wonderful josh green piece earlier this week talking about it so that trump now hats capacity or steve bannon how has the capacity to use that data to target the -- his enemies in the party like paul ryan, so whether, you know, authentic conservatives have to least party behind because it's trump's party or whether they can wrest it back, that's going to be very interesting in november and december. >> michael steele, who owns the voter data at the end of this campaign? >> the party does. i mean, you know, obviously the -- the campaign will have its own data that it's developed and, you know, they will have access from the merger, but it's not a literal merging. the rnc has its data.
it has -- that it's developed and it's dispensed across the country to the state parties. the presidential campaign tabbed into that and the party taps into what the presidential campaign has developed, but problem is that has not been a feature of this presidential campaign. they have not done of the basics of grass roots development, if you will, that you would see to create the kind of ultra database that would benefit both campaign and the party. >> yeah. >> if i could just real quick on one thing since i was the chairman that the tea party rose under, i understand that and appreciate everybody's book about the tea party and actually lived in the experience and sat in the room at the beginning of this phenomenon, the tea party did start out very much angered in the idea of constitutionalism and economic reforms within the party itself. like all movements, the battle that it had a h because it was not centralized in organization and leadership, you had a lot of
outside influences in various parts of the country that could infiltrate, if you will. so we had success in growing the party and expanding its opportunity, electing a number of african-americans, hispanics to governorships and the congress with a different strategy, didn't need an autopsy to do that. it was just basically tapping into the base, that conservative base that had grown disaffected and growing the party from there. >> all right. thank you for making that point. always good to have a chairman on with us. we'll keep this entire panel because we think they are great. up next, we're going to flip the script and talk about the democratic side of this -- of this situation. bill clinton's visit to loretta lynch's plane, what has that got to do with comeygate. don't go away.
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the department of justice was fighting the fbi, and that's because the department of justice is trying so hard to protect hillary. there are those, and i happen to be one of them, who think hillary offered loretta lynch a reappointment as attorney general. >> donald trump has been quick to try to capitalize on the new developments in the fbi investigation into hillary clinton's e-mail server, firing off a tirade against both his opponent and the department of justice led by attorney general loretta lynch. the justice department officials reportedly individuals fbi director james comey against updating congress about the newly discovered e-mails so close to the election. trump suggested the doj did not want comb toe proceed with the investigation. the unfounded claim that ag lynch is compromised by the clintons has been a feature of
the trump campaign since june when former president bill clinton and lynch had an impromptu meeting aboard a parked plane in arizona just as the fbi's initial e-mail probe was winding down. back john that incape hart, michael steele and rick wilson. >> john thanks, i'm going to play yourself to yourself. this was back in judgment had you a conversation with loretta lynch at the aspen ideas festival, and you talked a little bit about the uproar over her impromptu meeting with bill clinton. let's take a look. >> what on earth was she thinking talking to bill clinton, so what on earth were you thinking? what happened? >> certainly my meeting with him raises questions and concerns and so believe me i completely get that question, and i think it is the question of the day, but i think the issue is, again, what is the role in how that matter is going to be resolved? it's important to make it clear that -- that meeting with president clinton does not have
a bearing on how this matter is going to be reviewed, resolved and accepted by me. >> jonathan, i guess the question is, you know, she asked the question what is my role is how the matter will be resolved and did this weaken the attorney general's ability to the fbi direct tor stand down to the point where her suggestion to stand down was ignored? >> on the face of it that's what it looked like. in the interview, i asked her at what point, by the time president clinton boarded her plane had she already made the decision that she was going to accept the findings of the fbi and career prosecutors and of the fbi director and she said yes primarily because to ensure that there would be no sort of -- no political taint on whatever decision came out of the justice department, and as we've seen going forward that,
you know, that just hasn't helped, and so what's going on here now is that, yeah, you've got director comey who is ignoring justice department officials and the one thing that jamie gorelick and larry thompson right on the op-ed page of "the washington post," the one reason why the justice department is furious with him because it's been long-standing traditions for decades, memo is sent out every four years that when you are within 60 days of an election that you should err on the side of not handing down any indictments, not revealing any new investigative steps for fear of looking like you are trying to influence the results of an election, and so when you hear donald trump talk about the so-called war within the justice department, it's not that, you know, the justice department officials want to protect hillary clinton, it's that they view -- i'm sorry, that director
comey has violated a decades long tradition that damages the impartiality, the now tralt and the standing of the justice department which those career officials take very, very seriously. >> let's play that question being asked to john podesta, the senior adviser to the clinton campaign and on with jake tapper this morning answering the same question about loretta lynch's role. >> do you think if he had not done, that that attorney general lynch might have had more control of what happened in this investigation? >> again, i can't speculate about that. you sort of gave the money pitch there, jake. she said that she would accept the advice of career prosecutors, you know, the republicans wanted to spin that up into a conspiracy where there was none. >> talking about spinning a conspiracy, michael steele what, would the party do with the information if -- if the fbi director had come out and rather than give this update to the
congress about the e-mails, if comb he come out on friday and announced that the fbi was indeed looking into donald trump's former aides' ties to russia, you know, how much hay would republicans be making about him intervening in an election? >> i'm sure there would be a whole lot of political noise about that, but that's not what we're talking about right now. so speculation about what republicans would say in that instance is, you know, kind of moot. the reality is that the combination of actions by the justice department and the fbi over the last six months has raised a lot of eyebrows and concerns on not just among republicans but among a lot of americans, you know, who sort of look at this rather dispassionately and say that does sound funny or smell funny and that's the problem for the clinton campaign. your reference to the long-standing tradition and the memo that goes out every four
years notwithstanding. clearly comey had in mice his mind to take an action that disregarded not just that tradition but what loretta lynch and her people had recommended to him has well for a reason. i'm very curious myself as to what the rationale or the reasoning, is and if -- if he gets a chance to go before the congress and share that, i think we'll all -- all ears for that. >> yeah, rick wilson, your candidate, the campaign that you are a part of, the evan mcmullen campaign came out pretty forcefully on this, essentially saying that the investigation had been reopened. it really hasn't been reopened, but as far as the evan mcmullen campaign is concern, you see this as an opportunity, do you see it as an outrage, where do you stand? >> when you look at this as part of the continuing sort of dialogue about a country that's faced with two very challenged unacceptable candidates. you've got donald trump who is obviously, you know, for all the reasons we've already covered an unacceptable candidates for many millions of americans and of a lot of folks who would
ordinarily be going away from trump look at hillary clinton as an ethical train wreck. a lot of these things with the e-mail and the new revelations, i think a lot of them are baked in the cake about how people feel about hillary clinton and her team. they will do things that either are or appear to be unethical even if they don't have to, and i think this sort of -- the sort of, you know, discomfort you're seeing at the justice department in part was because the tensions between the professional staff and the political, you know, nokes in that same orbit appear to be, you know, sort of bubbling to the surface. there's always something with hillary trying to avoid accountability or the perception that she's trying to avoid accountability, and i think this is one more chapter in that and it's why we're seeing people, you know, who are uncomfortable with both trump and clinton moving towards us. >> why do you not see more of that if that is the case, rick, because you do see a boomlet for evan mcmullin in utah, for instance, but you're not seeing republicans who are expressing
open disdain for donald trump endorsing your candidate. why do you support that is? >> we meet with these guys behind closed doors, met with close to 60 republican officials at this point and they say behind closed doors, i hate donald trump, he's loathesome, destroying my party and is a horrible human being and i'm afraid he'll send a mean tweet and there's aloud of cowardice and people who say in public they support donald trump have been loathe of him. >> up next, republican voter fraud. you i don't want to miss it. (war dru beati fight hetburn fast the uthwating ft cheths. goes to work in conds to conquer heartburn fast. the uthwtum tum tum tus. goes to work in conds conlyrom tums
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get your ballots in. trying to have pretty good supervig. we have a lot of people watching you people who collect the ballot. a lot of people watching the people who collect the ballots. >> donald trump has spent weeks questioning the integrity of the election and encouraging his supporters to, quote, watch the ballots and monitor election officials. but this week his campaign's intimidating rhetoric reached a fever pitch. a senior trump official told bloomberg business week we have three major voter suppression efforts under way and bloomberg says it targets white liberals, young women and tactics of tying hillary clinton to bill clinton and we want to talk about some.
more serious voter suppression tactics than just trying to be rhetorical, but before we do that, i want to talk to you a little bit about what happened in iowa. the trump campaign and donald trump himself like to talk a lot about supposed in-person voter fraud this, idea that people show up, i vote and then i come back and say i'm ar ari berman and you can see it up on the screen, a trump supporter, a woman charged with voting twice in iowa. how could that have happened? >> leave aside the fact that the first voter major fraud is a republican trump support per, but the real news here is she was caught, right, and she was caught in a state without a strict voter i.d. law so that shows why people aren't voting ten times like donald trump said because even if you're a trump supporter and you try to vote for your candidate ten times or even two times you're going to get caught. >> can you explain really quickly because every time you hear this in-person voter fraud, why would you stand in line four hours two times, how does this
theoretical fraud work? >> she voted at two different locations for early voting and they flagged it and lists of people who vote. if you vote more than once you're going to get caught. that's why you're more likely to be struck by lightning than you are to impersonate another voter because the risks don't equal out to the rewards of casting one or two votes and getting a felony. >> it doesn't even make sense. there's also been this sort of specter of voter fraud raised by john hughstead, the secretary of state in ohio, who is constantly coming up with inventive new wayed to make it harder to vote. we've recently found out that donald trump, his foundation, put money into this operation project verrettias by james o'keefe who is a felonious i don't know what you would call him an activist filmmaker who is threatening to have his people show up at polling places in swing states like ohio and watch
people with cameras. what is the threat of that to happen and is it legal to slow up and film voters were a camera? >> i've certainly heard people express concern. i've heard people associated with the clinton campaign who are involved in their voter protection operation express real concern, that there might be people who come who are self-appointed vigilantes who have decided to disrupt polling places and intimidate people. the problem, of course, is that violates federal law. federal criminal law makes it a crime to engage in conduct that is an attempt to intimidate voters and exercising their rise or franchise in federal elections. it could also violate ohio law, including a statute called interfering with civil rights so there's a real concern that this might happen because donald trump and his friends have whipped people up into a frenzy. but. you know, you need to keep that in mind in addition to violating the federal statutes and state statutes it might
violate a federal consent decree that the republican national committee has been under for many deckates because of its prior misconduct in trying to target minority voters and dissuade them from voting. >> and we can put up a little clip from that consent decareer, and it's a consent decree that was signed by both parties after the parties sued the rnc back in 1981 in a new jersey gubernatorial election. that decree enjoins the republican party to refrain, the rnc refrain from undertaking any ballot security activities in polling places or election districts where there's a racial composition of such district a factor and democrats have accused the rnc of sly lating that consent decree, ari. what could be the effect of the democrats going back and accusing the republicans of violating that consent decree? >> well, democrats have also said based on everything that we've heard from trump in the campaign that the rnc has violated this consent decree. what happened in the 1980s is the republican party in new jersey sent mailers that were
inaccurate to black and hispanic voters, and then they sent off-duty cops who were armed wearing -- wearing arm bands that said ballot security task force to black and latino polling sites in new jersey, and the court found that that was intimidating, that it was illegal and the rnc needs to refrain from doing this stuff and here you have trump saying, for example, that law enforcement has to monitor the polls in places like pennsylvania, the very thing that the rnc is blocked from. trump supporters talking about racial profiling so this could violate the law in a lot of different ways. >> i was just going to say let's not forget donald trump is. he is the official nominee of the republican party, and so i think that any kind of orchestration or encouragement by donald trump as the nominee of the republican party gets tagged to the republican national committee because he's acting as their agent and vice versa. >> absolutely. ari, you've been reporting a lot about what's happening in wisconsin so we can get in all the breadth of things going on.
a city clerk in wisconsin oppose putting an early voting site on the university of wins wins green bay campus specifically because students lean more toward the democrats. what is going on in wisconsin and what is the justice department doing about it? >> there's been a big battle over voter i.d. in wisconsin which we've discussed and early voting has been another big battle, republicans cut and most were restored from the courts and what happened in green bay during the april 5th primary, very, very long lines on campus and student groups across the ideological spectrum asked for an early voting site on campus. said there was no money or security for it but the e-mails that the nation obtained showed that the city clerk cult voting because in her word students lean more towards democrats which is really an absolutely outrageous statement for a non-partisan city clerk to make. >> we want to have you guys come back on and find out what the justice department is doing
about it. we'll follow up with you on that. thank you both very much. >> coming up at noon, a kendall coffey, former federal attorney and prosecutor weighs in on the e-mail investigation and the controversy over fbi director james comey. more "a.m. joy." that gives powerful ptomelief without raising your blood pressure. ricidin hbp.
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intercom: the library [ kis now closing.] ok kid, closing up. goodnight. the hardest part about homework shouldn't be figuring out where to do it. through internet essentials, comcast has connected over 3 million people in need to low-cost internet at home. welcome to a brighter future. comcast. all right. time to find out what the big headlines will be next week with joan, e.j. and josh. all right. we'll go in reverse order. josh, what's the big headline? >> i'll be watching all the
polling that comes out because i think people are very interested to know how much this fbi news will affect the polls at all. we've been seeing some really weird trends at the state level. nationally that's been clear there's been some tightening with trump catching up to clinton, but like, for example, florida, there seems to be a real deterioration for clinton. she looks like she's in trouble whereas in north carolina looks like she's only getting stronger. i would be really shocked at this point if she lost north carolina and pennsylvania seems to be looking well and ohio quite bad and weird the states are splitting. so far it's looking like the map is holding up for her. if she's wins pennsylvania and north carolina she's basically won the presidency, but i can't quite understand in my head why it would be that she would be falling off a cliff in florida and getting stronger in north carolina. >> you've never lived in florida. just weird things happen there, and it is interesting. i wonder if you think there isn't such a thing as an undecided voter. i don't understand why there are shifts and people are so hardened in their partisan
positions, even independents really leaners. >> the movement in the polls, the abc tracking poll that went from a 12 point lead it is abou changing how sure they are they will vote. trump supporters have gotten more enthusiastic. clinton supporters have gotten less enthusiastic over the last week. experts say the public polls tend to overstate somewhat how much people's odds of voting actually move around. the internal polls the campaigns have are more stable. hillary was never really ahead by 12. i think they are hoping that the new public polls showing her ahead by one are over -- >> that makes sense. >> on florida, i was talking to a prominent florida politician. i said, i can't figure out florida. he said, i've been at this for 30 years and i can't figure out florida either. my headline is some new revelation about trump. i have no idea what that revelation is. but two reasons. one is, there is just such a
cycle to this campaign. so hillary had her cycle this weekend. so we're in for something else. i know it doesn't work like this. have the hillary folks sat on something in case of -- is there other stuff? it feels like there's room for one more turn. >> this would be the week to use it if they have something they haven't used. >> my headline is, what did jas jas jas jason chaffitz know. he tweeted it out allegedly before his republican -- his democratic colleagues had gotten the letter. he seemed to know something was coming. he actually versed his reversal of the trump endorsement the day before. a lot of reporters are asking about his role -- was he leaked
some of this new information? he put pressure on comey? there's a lot of stuff coming out as people report out what drove comey to this. >> if you have conservative fbi agents who are working in tandem with people on the hill, if hillary clinton holds on and wins, which i still think kind of -- i think she will. i think comey at the end of all this, a big explanation of why he made this decision the way he made it and why he said what he said and didn't say more. this is now a bipartisan call. there are a lot of republicans saying, why was he so cryptic in this message? >> that brings me to what i think the headline will be, which is comey under fire. let me play actually kellyanne conway. she was on "this week with abc." this is how the trump campaign would like this fbi story to be
characterized. take a listen. >> a criminal conspiracy led by the president of the united states that had 48 people plead guilty. >> but, george, if you look at what's happened with hillary clinton and two fbi investigations this year, what jim comey did on july 5th, he said, we decline to prosecute her. then he went on to give us all the lists reasons -- >> but he didn't bring prosecution. he said no reasonable person. >> he is a reasonable person. he went through the list on july 5th in his public statement of how reckless and careless she was. >> i think that if you look at what kellyanne conway was saying, we decline to prosecute her. james comey is not a prosecutor. james comey is the fbi director. he made a recommendation to the actual prosecutor, the attorney general. he was probably overbroad in his sort of editorializing about what he was going to do. which set us up for this moment right now. republicans are setting up trump voters to believe that he is reversing course on this idea of whether hillary clinton should be prosecuted.
that in and of itself interferes with the election in a way we have never seen before. next week, i think you are right, it's going to be a question of, why is james comey doing this and what is chaffetz's role? he is the guy who hauled jim comey before his committee when the previous decision was made. do you think the politics of this start to reverse on jim comey and republicans in any way next week? >> so i actually think that this story may be less big next week than we expect. i don't expect news developments on it. i don't think jim comey -- >> he said there won't be. >> he has drawn more attention to himself than he wanted. i think in one way or another he got pushed into putting this letter out. i don't think he wanted to do it. and i don't think it's in hillary clinton's interest to talk about it, even if she has a good point about comey, even if they have get clarification that are positive, she doesn't want us to spend the week talking about the fbi investigation into her e-mail server. she would rather talk about most anything else.
ideally, something stupid donald trump is doing. >> here is the reason it doesn't go away. you have things within the fbi. they are investigating eric garner. there's a story under the radar, which is what happens with the garner prosecution and the tension between the new york fbi and the d.c. fbi if the justice department decides to prosecute. do we have a conversation about this sort of war between these two divisions of the fbi? >> i think there's a short-term issue and a long-term issue. the long-term issue is, yes, i think all of this means we're going to spend a lot of time looking at the fbi, the politics of the fbi, what's going on inside. the question is, what happens in the next several days? the one sort of flip side of this story, if you will, is the anger that you saw on the democratic side starting on day two, starting yesterday, was
really enormous. you wonder, does this have a turnout affect for the republicans? but also for the democrats. but i agree, over the long run, jim comey created a situation where a lot of people are going to ask, what is going on inside the fbi? >> does jim comey -- these terms are ten years in general. he has been in since 2013. does jim comey stay on as fbi director? >> i don't think he can. he will be so compromised after this, whatever happens. i would expect him to resign. >> would it be possible to keep or dismiss him? she would be in the awkward position if she becomes president of saying, this guy who potentially hurt me is out. that's politically difficult for her. >> a better chance of staying under hillary clinton than donald trump ironically. it would be more difficult for hillary to push him out. >> is this a lame duck -- is this something that happened in the lame duck? >> comey is the headline next week. thank you to joan, ej and josh. that is our show for today.
after the three of us -- the four of us take a selfie, i will be back tonight. join us from 5:00 to 7:00 p.m. up next, alex witt. more news at the top of the hour. will yousiness be ready wh groh esents itself? american express open cards can help you takon a new job, or ed yourffe find outow amecan exprs cards and rvices can helprereou for grow at op.c. find outow amecan exprs i'm teihe is.olf. but i'd like tke bei terribib alf foas long as i can. new pateed ensure live has hmb plus 20 grs of protein to help reild muscle. for thstngth and e ey to do what you love.
at cloro2 we've turned ving sins in a science. now pr! watch staiisappearright b. reve times more than deterernt. good day, everyone. i'm alex witt here in new york at msnbc world headquarters. nine days until election day. a number of new polls suggest tightening in one battleground state but a wider lead for one candidate in another key state. these details ahead. in fact -- in fact, it's not just strange, it's unprecedented and it is deeply troubling. >> hillary clinton not talking about the whole of this campaign season, just the latest wrinkle from the fbi on e-mails. there's plenty of new reaction from all sides within the past couple of hours.