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tv   The Last Word With Lawrence O Donnell  MSNBC  November 10, 2016 7:00pm-8:01pm PST

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of interest to the party-affiliated section of your brain, but if you are a cynic, it's further proof that your vote really, really, really does matter. it matters if you vote third party. 2500 votes difference in new hampshire? it's less than the population of dunnbarton. now it's time for the last word with lawrence o'donnell. >> last night i suggested that elizabeth warren could be busy four years from now, running for president, and i'm glad you narrowed that down and got her to admit that she's running for president. she didn't say no, i'm not running for president. in politics, that means you're running for president. >> that means yes, with an exclamation point. >> she may not be the only woman in the senate running four years
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from now. we'll see. >> thank you. >> for a second night in a row, people are peacefully demonstrating against the election of donald trump in cities across the country, including his hometown, new york city. milwaukee, baltimore, and just moments ago, the president-elect returned to twitter in classic form to lie about these protests. he called the thousands of people who spontaneously have risen up against them, he referred to them, as, quote, professional protests. that is, of course, a lie. and today, donald trump visited the oval office, where he met president obama for the first time, and also apparently for the first time he did not insult president obama. >> why do bad things happen to good people? you finally have the answer. the electoral college. >> more people in this country
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voted for clinton, not trump. >> so once again, donald trump benefits from a [ bleep ] college. >> it was a great honor being with you. >> surreal to watch, knowing the history of the two of them. >> it is important for all of us to now come together, work together, to deal with the many challenges that we face. >> that doesn't mean that he agrees with donald trump. it doesn't mean all the concerns he raised no longer apply. >> which donald trump are we working with? if it's the same donald trump that has shown himself throughout the campaign, then i don't want any parts of it. >> it looked to me as if he was starting to realize the weight of the job. >> you're probably looking at the map of the united states, and thinking, wait, how long has this wall got to be? >> i have learned how difficult politics can be, but that doesn't mean you run away. >> get with us, oppose trump when he is wrong. >> pick yourself up, as the president said, and you fight
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even harder for our country, because it's ours. it's ours! >> the peaceful transition of power ritual that was begun at the white house today is performed as much for the world as it is for this country. we take for granted the transition of power, but many countries do not. the president and president-elect played their parts publicly, with a version of the oval office script that has now been used for generations. >> i want to emphasize to you, mr. president-elect that we now are going to want to do everything we can to help you succeed, because if you succeed then the country succeeds. >> i very much look forward to dealing with the president in the future, including counsel.
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it was a great honor being with you, and i look forward to be being with you many, many more times in the future. >> there was a moment there we will show you later in our discussion where donald trump said i respect, and you would have expected him to say president obama, but he didn't. it wasn't at all clear what he respected. he just couldn't finish the sentence that way, because trump supporters are not quite ready to hear that, if ever. we'll have a full discussion and analysis of what we saw today. but first, in the coverage of today's ritual, there was an important historical fact that was lost. she won. she won the popular vote. hillary clinton got more votes than donald trump did. she won the presidential election held on election day, but that's not enough to win the presidency, because we don't elect a president on election day. the electoral college elects a president. when they meet on the first
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monday after the second wednesday in doecember. now you know you're deep in the world of ritual when your meeting must occur on the first monday after the second wednesday in december. it sounds like you're deep into the world of cultish superstition. those words are actually written in law to specify when the electoral college meets many of the and just by reading them, just by saying them, you can feel the absurdity of the electoral college, how outdated it is. the electoral college is one of the most enduring mistakes of the founding fathers. and the two men who designed the electoral college would be horrified at what it has become. they believed that the way it operates today was unconstitutional. a serious violation of the spirit of the constitution. the constitution was written by men who did not trust voters. they didn't trust them completely. in the federal government, they allowed voters to elect only
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members of the how long of representatives. the constitution said senators would be elected by state legislators. that want changed until 1913. the founding fathers clearly thought that the job of senator was too important to be decided by the man on the street. and that was back when most people couldn't vote. no women were allowed to vote. no slaves were allowed to vote. and only certain kinds of men were allowed to vote. in some areas, you had to own property to vote, indicating that you were a man of substance, a man of judgment, that's what the lelectors in th electoral college were supposed to be, because in alexander hamilton's words, they needed to be men who possessed the information and discernment to make that decision. the electoral college was designed by alexander hamilton and james madison. their idea was that on election day, voters would vote not for
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the president but for an elector. someone smarter than themselves who then would vote for president of the united states when the electoral college met at a later date. that date was formalized in law in 1887 as the first monday after the second wednesday in december. in madison and hamilton's view, the electors were free to vote for whoever they wanted to vote for for president. they believed that back then, new york state's is 12 electors each, could and should make up their own mind as to who the next president should be. new york might produce four votes for one candidate, three for another candidate, three for another then two for another. they didn't want new york state's electors to get together and make a political deal to all vote for the same candidate. madison and hamilton became
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alarmed when they saw electors in some states realizing that they could do that, that they could get together and choose a candidate. the electors in certain states then all banded together and voted for the same person so that their candidate would be more likely to win, and hamilton hated that. and he hated even more the idea that some of the electors would be pre-pledged to vote for a certain candidate for president. he didn't want electors who weren't going to think about who the best president would be. he didn't want electors who were pledged to a candidate and won votes from voters by pledging themselves to a candidate, which is exactly what we have right now. hamilton said that the point of choosing electors was to make sure that the president would be chosen, quote, by men most capable of analyzing the qualities that a president should have. hamilton didn't want robots in
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his electoral college. he thought that would be a violation of the constitutional description of how the electoral college should work. when he saw that the electoral college was being abused, hamilton actually wrote an amendment to the constitution to try to correct it, an amendment that was never passed. and so you win the presidency now, not by winning the most votes. you win the presidency by winning the most robots in the electoral college, an anti-democratic idea, an idea so anti-democratic that no democracy designed after ours has adopted the electoral college. our democracy has been a model for centuries for many developing democracies around the world, but none of them chose the electoral college. no one wants that. real democracies actually allow people to vote directly for the president. she won the popular vote. that's what you hear. the popular vote.
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a phrase that exists only in the united states of america. you know what they call the popular vote in the rest of the world? the vote. you win the vote, you win the office. and that is true for every elective office in the united states from school committee to town council to alderman to mayor, to state legislator to congress, every single elected office in the united states except the most important one, and of course, votes in the electoral college are not democratically distributed throughout the country, they are not fairly distributed according to population, wyoming only gets three electoral votes. that's the least that any state can have. north dakota and south dakota get three votes. but wyoming has 586,000 people. south dakota has 300,000 more people than that, but it doesn't get one more electoral vote than wyoming. it doesn't get anymore electoral
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votes than wyoming. it just gets those three. so south dakota voters are not fairly represented in the electoral college as wyoming voters are. but california has 39 million people, and it only gets 55 electors in the electoral college. if california voters got equal representation in the electoral college, california would get 1 t 99 electors. that is how this is. the electoral college was designed when california was still mexico. it was designed when the variation in population from state to state was nothing like the extremes that we see today. today's population numbers and the patterns of settlement across the continent were unimaginable to the men who designed the electoral college, but we're stuck with it. this archaic device designed by
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men who did not trust voters. it would fatake a constitutiona amendment to change it. which means we are stuck with it for the unimaginable future. if we observed a foreign country using it when we go there to foreign countries as election observers, we would say, oh, no, no, no, you can't do that. can't do that. i've been an election observer in foreign country on election day. watching people vote ma. and no one called it the popular vote. they called it the vote. no one said i'm going to have to come back on the first monday after the second wednesday to watch a small group make the final decision about who the president should be. in any real democracy today, the president today would be hillary clinton. but this is the country where you can win the presidency through a political card trick called the electoral college.
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she got more votes. more people voted for hillary clinton than voted for donald trump. and we are now 48 hours into the discussion of what hillary clinton didn't understand about america. what she didn't understand about the voters she had to appeal to, 48 hours into the discussion of what the democrats have to do now to change their message. 48 hours into the discussion of what the party and the candidate who got the most votes must do. to get more votes. in order to actually win. only in america. that is a discussion that can happen only in america. where winning the election is not enough to win the office of the presidency. winning the most votes, not enough. that's what winning the election is in a real democracy, winning the most votes. the world knows this.
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we have embarrassed ourselves to the world once again. with the world watching, twice in 16 years now, the winner of the vote was not sworn in as president of the united states. do not expect the world to understand that. do not expect the world to admire our democracy. alexander hamilton would be horrified to see the perversion that his electoral college has become, and he would surely be horrified to see the kind of man who sat beside president obama today, thanks entirely to alexander hamiltohamilton's ele college. coming up, president obama and donald trump. in the oval office, meeting for the first time. [ sneezes ] i have a big meeting when we land, but i'm so stuffed up, i can't rest. nyquil cold and flu liquid gels don't unstuff your nose. they don't? alka-seltzer plus night liquid gels fights your worst cold symptoms. plus, unstuffs your nose.
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keeping the power lines clear,my job to protect public safety, while also protecting the environment. the natural world is a beautiful thing, the work that we do helps us protect it. public education is definitely a big part of our job, to teach our customers about the best type of trees to plant around the power lines. we want to keep the power on for our customers. we want to keep our community safe. this is our community, this is where we live. we need to make sure that we have a beautiful place for our children to live. together, we're building a better california. the next president of the united states got his twitter machine back, and he's already
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complaining about peaceful protests against his election, and lying about those protests, saying that they are professional protests. the one in new york city is taking place, as you see there, right in front of his home and office building, trump tower. up next, we will have reaction to what happened today in the oval office. [burke] hot dog. seen it. covered it.
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we know a thing or two because we've seen a thing or two. ♪ we are farmers. bum-pa-dum, bum-bum-bum-bum ♪ we had never met each other. i have great respect. the meeting lasted for almost an hour and a half. and it could have, as far as i'm concerned, it could have gone on for a lot longer. >> joining us now, msnbc political analyst, and april
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ryan with american urban radio networks. and april, for me, a most fascinating home in there was when donald trump said "i have great respect", and he kpdidn't say, there was no word, there was no object, as they say, in that sentence, because i think he realized that if he were to say, as would logically make sense in the words he was saying there, i have great respect for president obama, that would be instantly horrifying to all of his supporters who heard exactly the opposite from him for oh, over five years now. >> yeah. well, lawrence, you know, and i picked up on that as well, but when i walked into, i was part of the pool that walked into the oval office today, and just that sight alone was, was stunning. to see these two men who have been fighting for a while and the crescendo moments have happened in the last couple
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days, the accusations and the name-calling and things back and forth, and then election day happened, and they called for their better selves, and today we saw both of them calling on their better selves to sit here for the greater good of the country. and what struck me, lawrence, is when i heard donald trump say he would look to president obama for counsel. >> yes, yep. >> because i had to do a double take when i was in the oval office, he said wait a minute, did he say that? he did. and we pressed josh earnest. i asked him, how does that look? what is the construct of that, talk to us about how that happens. and he said something, josh earnest said something on how president obama has called on george h.w. bush on occasions. i talked to bill clinton a couple years ago, he said he had actually talked to george w. bush about some issues to include, trying to work out the
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pricing for drugs for those in africa, with hiv and malaria and things of that nature. so it really struck me. i don't know if it was surreal, but it was a re severy serious for the good of the country. both men had not agreed before, but they are doing it for the good of the country. and it seemed like a real moment. an hour and a half is not a short time for the president of the united states and for this president-elect. >> so jonathan alter, it turns out donald trump went beyond the known maximum of his attention span and went to 90 minutes. but what we know with absolute certainty is today was the day in donald trump's life where he spoke to the wisest man he has ever spoken to about government. >> i think he may have realized that. that was the look on trump's face, kind of like i got a little more than i bargained for
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here, and i better learn from the president about how to be president, which could be very productive and helpful for the country. obama, as i found out when i was researching my first book about him, was very appreciative of george h.w. bush or george w. bush's help in the transition, so he wants to be really helpful to trump, but he can also get something out of that, which is maybe a little bit of trump's time when it comes to deciding which of those executive orders to repeal. remember, trump has committed to repealing some, but not all, of obama's executive orders. obama is very concerned, rightly, with his legacy. if he can help trump become president, be, you know, a successful president in his early days, maybe in exchange, because trump is a deal maker, trump, who's not an ideological guy, will not repeal everything that obama did. >> my personal bet is he probably, the thing the president probably stressed the
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most is do not try to undo this iran deal, but let's listen to what elizabeth warren just said to rachel in the last hour. let's listen. >> donald trump did not get the majority of americans voting for him. they did not. that's not how it worked in this election. but he is the president. that means he will have certain tools, but we are the american people. and we speak for the american people. and we have the values that have made us a strong country. >> april, i'm hoping every discussion of where we are today begins with "donald trump did not get the majority of americans voting for him ". . >> i don't know if that is the discussion in the white house. but i can say this. he's very well aware of the fact that, donald trump is on twitter as we know and on social media. i'm sure he's aware of that fact. at the same time, he's aware of the fact that he has to unify
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those who are in his corner and those who support hillary clinton as well as bernie sanders as well as elizabeth warren who voted for hillary clinton. he's got to unify, and he seemed very serious about that today. so, at issue is how does unification work out for him. what does that look like? and from the way i understand it, what, a lot of that rhetoric that was on the road leading up to his win to the oval office to become number 45, i understand he may not come back with that. some of that may be gone. this is what i'm hearing. it remains to be seen, but if he indeed tries to do that, that is unification of those who voted, the more, the most votes that voted for hillary clinton versus him and trying to unify his group who didn't vote as much as hillary clinton's people did. >> jonathan alter, it turns out, if you go back far enough in
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donald trump's twitter feed you can find spots where you agree with him. here he is in 2012. donald trump said, the electoral college is a disaster for democracy. [ laughter ] i'm going to have to retweet that tomorrow. >> that's great t. clearly it is right now. i think one of the things people can do to channel this anger at the electoral college is at least learn about what's called the national popular vote compact, npvc. what it is, state legislatures determine the details of their lect electors. and 13 states have declared that their electors have to vote for the popular vote winner, when it gets to 25, we won't need a constitutional amendment, it will be the end of the electoral
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college, because it will be a majority committed to being with the winner. so if pennsylvania, if the three states had, hillary clinton would be president. people do not understand that there is a way to reform and get rid of the electoral college without a constitutional amendment, it's a tiny bit complicated, but these states commit to voting, their electors commit to voting for the popular vote winner, and we're halfway there, we've gotten 13 of them in the 15 years since the 2000 election, and people can work in their state legislatures to get every state to commit to this. >> if you are watching this from a foreign country, you might be tempted to use a word like "rigged", or something like that. thank you both for joining me tonight. appreciate it. >> thanks, lawrence. up next, donald trump is back on twitter, which means
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he's lying once again. and about these protesters.
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tonight the next president of the united states got back to twitter and, of course, lied. he tweeted now professional protesters incited by the media are protesting. very unfair. msnbc's cal perry is outside
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trump tower in new york city. >> reporter: i'm joined by diamond and michael. now professional protesters incited by the media are protesting. very unfair with the standard donald trump exclamation point. what's your impression? >> this guy's crazy. nobody's paying us to be here, we're doing what our democracy allows us to do. >> i'm not a professional protester, i'm here because i want to be. >> reporter: this is much like a rally, a campaign rally. we'll get the pro-trump folks come by, yell at the media, yell at these folks. the other thing talking to new york city police officers, this is a protection nightmare. 56 stories of a glass building in the middle of downtown manhattan, this is going to be a challenge. >> it's really changed traffic patterns in that area and the way of life in that neighborhood. >> reporter: yeah, traffic is
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backed up all the way down fifth avenue. in talking to some of these officers, there's no place to land a helicopter. closest place is central park. that's not going to work. >> coming up, donald trump's other big meeting in washington today with someone else who he insulted time and time and time again. (vo) maybe it was here, when you hit 300,000 miles.
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mcconnell. mitch mcconnell said his meeting was quote, first class, and paul ryan described it this way. >> wonderful, wonderful. >> you're not just saying that. >> no, i'm not just saying that, wonderful. >> a month ago, exactly a month ago, donald trump said this about the man he had a wonderful meeting with today. >> paul ryan, you know, open borders and amnesty and lots of -- and bad budgets by the way, very, very bad budgets. frankly, the only one that obama negotiates well with is paul ryan with the budgets, because that's the only negotiation he can win. >> if you're elected president, you're going to need mccain, and you're going to need ryan. you're going to need these guys. >> they'll be there. i would think that maybe ryan wouldn't be there, maybe he'll be in a different position. i wouldn't want to be in a foxhole with a lot of these people, let me tell you, including ryan. >> he's a brave man. >> including ryan. >> i got that. >> joining us now, sam stein,
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and a great guy to be in a foxhole with, and michael medved. i've been saying all year when trump would go on these rapnts about people like paul ryan, that the president spends a good deal of the time begging these people to get packages through. >> i don't think begging is promo appropriate, but i think's appropriate to respond the way mr. ryan did, which is to cut mr. trump some slack, if you look at the video that you're showing the whole world here, one of the things mr. trump said today, he said barack obama was a very good man. now that's a very good thing for him to say. it's obviously true, and i believe that he honestly is trying to sort of put some of the excesses of his previous 70
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years of life behind him and to become presidential. and i think that what patriots should to, whether they're left, right, or center, is try to encourage that. because what president obama said today was emphatically true, which is the only way for america to succeed is to have a successful president. we shouldn't, no one should repeat the mistake that some conservatives made when obama became president and say we want him to fail. i didn't support trump, but i want him to succeed, because i want my country to succeed. >> sam stein, there's donald trump a month ago talking about paul ryan's very, very bad budgets. donald trump is going to be handed one of those, or i mean the ritual is that the president hands a sketched-out budget to the congress, which the congress always ignores, and then they write their open and hand it back to the president. >> so i keep going back to a story that came out over the summer. i believe in the "new york
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times" magazine, i might be wrong, and it detailed how donald trump was offering the vice president's shot to john kasich. and the basic premise of the story was this, was that donald trump wanted to give john kasich the domestic and foreign policy portfolios of the white house while he, donald trump, went and made the country great, ostensibly through pr exercises, which i think is what his interest is primarily in. did that deal offered to john kasich extend to mike pence? and if it did extend to mike pence, is what you are looking at is the possibility of conservative budgets authored by a very conservative republican-run house and senate becoming law by donald trump having no interest in the details. that is a shock to the system of liberals. they could see a lot of president obama's legacy torn away from them. what they have to hang onto is
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that donald trump is unpredictable. and maybe he will want to gain control and he won't give all that responsibility that he promised to mike pence and john kasich. but that's something that democrats will have to figure out, how much can they use carrots, and how much can they use sticks going forward. >> a conservative republican budgets like to take money out of social security and take money out of medicare, because those are giant piles of money, that's where the money is, in effect. >> yes. >> and donald trump has said he doesn't want to do any medicare cuts at all. doesn't want to do any social security cuts at all. >> yes, he has. he's been very explicit on that. and i don't believe that he's going to walk that back. i don't think he's going to mess with entitlements, and i don't think there's any eagerness on the part of paul ryan or mike pence to fight president trump on entitlements. what i think will be very telling will be what his first priorities are. and people are talking about the
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very first priority will be an infrastructure bill, some stimulus spending to get the economy going, to create some jobs. there are a lot of democrats who will join in that effort. and i think, if they can actually begin accomplishing things of that nature, if, if they can do tax reform, i spoke today on my show to larry kudlow who's going to be one of, i believe, one of president trump's major economic advisers, they're talking about doing tax reform. if the democrats insist that any tax reform should actually also do something to reduce the deficit, which i think would be a great position to take, there are all kinds of deals to be made. the best part about trump, maybe he really is a great deal maker. we'll see. >> so sam, what if, and donald trump, the only thing he talked about the other night was infrastructure spending, house republicans do not like, and they haven't gone for. but what if the deal, the paul
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ryan/mitch mcconnell deal is, here, president trump, here's your infrastructure bill, it is paid for with cuts from medicare. >> that's, that's sort of the million dollar question. what does he do at that juncture? you know, i keep thinking that trump has promised his supporters an incredible set of realistic visions that they can both get all their jobs back that have been gone away from decades of globalization that has nothing to do really with politics, that they can see border wall constructed that mexico will somehow pay for and that will stop heroin from coming into their communities. i don't know how that works necessarily. so there's all these things at some point in time reality will hit the road. the question is, does it hit sooner or later? and is trump the guy who makes that happen? so does he go and say, you know what, i'm wrong, i'm going to cut your medicare. i'm not going to do the wall, or does he let that message be delivered by the republican congress?
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and i'm not sure what happens. >> thank you both for joining us. up next, elizabeth warren's read on trump voters. ♪jake reese, "day to feel alive"♪ ♪jake reese, "day to feel alive"♪ ♪jake reese, "day to feel alive"♪ could be you've got the wrong bed. enter sleep number... she likes the bed soft. he's more hardcore. you can both adjust the bed for the best sleep of your life. right now, save $500 on the queen cse mattress. plus 36 month special financing. know better sleep with sleep number.
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so when you get there, you can enjoy yourself all the more. for less. there were millions of people across this country who voted for him, not because of that bigotry because in spite of that bigotry. there are millions of people across this country who voted for him because they are angry about what's happening in this country, because they are worried about what's happened in this country, and because they are hopeful that he is someone who will come in and break a system that is not working for them. it is not working for them economically. it is not working for them politically. >> and one of the states where those trump voters live is wisconsin. as the results came in on
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tuesday night, steve kornacki went to the boards and showed us what it looks like when democrats lose in wisconsin. >> look at this sea of red in wisconsin, a state that last voted for a republican 32 years ago in 1984. what did this look like just four years ago? look at all that red in the obama election, look all that blue. drum has ta donald trump has taken them and turned them rhette red tonight wisconsin. >> joining us, former democratic congressman representing northwestern wisconsin for 42 years before retiring in 2010. thank you for joining us tonight. >> happy to be here, lawrence. >> what happened in wisconsin? >> well, it's been happening for the last 30 years. i mean, in 1986, and then again in '96, i issued this report when i was chairman of joint
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economic committee, talking about income disparity in the country and how wages had been suppressed. if you take a look at what has happened, tax policy, retirement policy, moving from defined benefits, retirement program to 401(k)s, which is a rip-off for worker, nafta, a steady progression of events that has been seen by many middle class, blue collar and white collar workers as shall bbeing against interests and helping create more miserable economic conditions and what happened is those workers finally had it. yes, trump appealed to racism, and yes, there were some racists who got sucked up by that, but that wasn't the main problem. the main problem is that this
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country has had a policy for the last 30 years that has not been worker friendly, and the second thing that's happened to wisconsin is labor has been destroyed as a political operation in wisconsin. the governor and the legislature wiped out much of union protection in that state. the labor movement used to be the transmission belt for information that would get information about these issues back to the grassroots. that's virtually gone now, and so that also really, really hurt democrats in the election. >> what did those voters who used to vote for dave obey, what did that tell you about why they couldn't vote for hillary clinton? >> i think it's because she was seen as the person who was in office. she has been around a long time. they were trying to send a message that they wanted, they wanted a really strong departure from past policies.
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and they didn't see hillary as getting that. the other problem is simply that for 30 years, she has been pounded like nobody in public life. and so after 30 years, it takes its toll. >> chairman dave obey, former chairman of the house appropriations committee. thank you for joining us. >> thank you. coming up, how the world is preparing or should we say bracing, for the next president of the united states. [burke] hot dog. seen it. covered it.
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leaders of countries around the world are placing and receiving phone calls from donald trump. one woman who hasn't heard from him yet, you will hear what she has to say about that next. why are you deleting these photos?
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like bundling home and auto coverage, which reduces redney. tape, which saves money. when they save, you save. that's home and auto insurance for the modern world. esurance, an allstate company. click or call. donald trump has been following the tradition of phone chats with leaders around the recalled would. but as of now he has not yet spoken to germany's angela merkle. yesterday she said this.
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russian president vladimir putin was within of the first to reach out to donald trump after the election. the trump campaign always denied contact with the russian government, but today russia's deputy foreign minister said there were contacts with trump's team. obviously, we know most of the people from his entourage, i cannot say all of them, but quite a few have been staying in touch with russian representatives. joining us, senior editor at fusion and a senior fellow at atlantic council. so they've been staying in
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touch. >> the russian ambassador was at trump's speech in april, the major foreign policy speech, which richard burt worked on. that's regular contact with the russian government. and, you know, carter paige and general flynn who has been a, has made paid appearances at russia today, the propaganda channel. so it's an opening secret, a guy that's saying that they're a little more ongoing than those earlier meetings. i think these guys, some of them work for them. this is the k street lobby that russia has bought, and much of it is in the trump family. >> felix, where do you think donald trump needs to direct his attention, most of his attention in his first, say, 90-100 days around the world? >> right now, angela merkle is the leader of nato, right? >> yes. >> she has nato, because he
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doesn't want it. and so he needs to decide whether that's something that he wants to get behind or something that he doesn't. internationally, that's all that matters. >> according to the campaign, his first set of phone calls on that is supposed to be calling up countries saying pay your dues, pay your dues. >> right, it's not a great look. our entire history, we have this american hedge mawn, he's decided he doesn't want to do that anymore, he'd much more deal with the russians. that's turning the entire international order on its head. you can't do that in the first 90-100 days, but where there's a vacuum, i think merkle will step in. >> vladimir putin will be very encouraging to donald trump, make them pay doubling their dues. >> mrs. merkle oddly enough is moving toward the 2% share gdp.
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so oddly, some of the people he's not yet communicated with are fulfilling that promise. i do think that we should be a little more kind of wary of the idea that putin, that putin is going, i think putin's going to try to manipulate trump. but i don't know if it's going to work. >> what is the putin agenda? >> it was chaos and disorder within the alliance, doubts. i think he likes the idea of a tar key that the united states pulls out of relationships. so i think that fits his bill much more so than some concord act with russia. >> what about trump and putin in a discussion about ukraine? >> i think trump will do whatever putin wants in ukraine. trump was the one who famously came out and said during the campaign and said oh, yeah, putin hasn't invaded ukraine.
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he's completely got the russian points down cold. there's going to be no opposition. and i think putin knows how to buy off greedy politicians. and trump is nothing if not a greedy politician. >> what investment imperatives might be involved in donald trump's dealing with russian leadership? >> well, we don't know. there are all these suppositions that he has some sort of deep, capital interest in his investments. but there is one thing that we should be aware of, that there is another group of niemi that entourage, senator corker, sessions, newt gingrich who are not of the same ilk as general flynn. there will be a tusing between the two tendencies. >> it's going to be amazing to watch. thank you both for joining us tonight. really appreciate it. msnbc's live coverage continues
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now into "the 11th hour with brian williams". that's next. tonight, mr. trump goes to washington. his first-ever meeting with president obama, what he's ever meeting with president obama and new demonstrations over his win unfolding for a second night in cities across the country. also the president-elect and the speaker of the house tonight on the hill. a look at the agenda the new administration is planning to roll out come january. and down time for hillary clinton as we get a new look at just how close she came to being president. "the 11th hour" begins now good evening once again from our headquarters here in new york and agains tonight as we come on the air it's the election of donald trump that is driving protesters out into the streets of several american cities. that's baltimore earlier tonight. and philadelphia. they're also in the streets of new york and just tonight in

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