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tv   MSNBC Live  MSNBC  November 13, 2016 1:00pm-2:01pm PST

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the search for relief often leads here.s, introducing drug-free aleve direct therapy. a high intensity tens device that uses technology once only in doctors' offices. for deep penetrating relief at the source. new aleve direct therapy. yoo good afternoon to you. i'm richard lui live at msnbc headquarters in new york city. we have our eye at trump tower blocks where where we are at 30 rockefell rockefeller center. protests against the president-elect continue to play out today. not just new york. thousands have take on the streets in portland, los angeles, miami, and other places across the country. nbc's rmorgan radford at trump tower, what do you have? >> reporter: richard, thousands of people are here in the streets. they started walking from trump international hotel. they then moved to trump tower.
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now, this group unlike yesterday was largely organized by a group of immigrant workers. you can hear them chanting behind me in the background. they're saying things like -- [ speaking foreign language ] it means not even one more deportation. we will not be silenced, we are here, and we are not going anywhere. i want to introduce you to a couple people who are walking. this is frank walking with his mom. where are you from? >> originally paraguay. >> your mom? >> cuba. >>. >> reporter: so why are you walking today? >> i'm walking, one, because i get to spend some quality time with my mother. but, two, i believe in the real mission of this ral p.a. raid, this rally, rather, to say there are social implications by what our president-elect has said and unless he is willing to condemn those who are now continuing to spread out that racism that has come about from his beginning of campaigning it's an issue and it needs to be addressed. >> reporter: when we were walking, you said, look, i'm from a mixed-race family and
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that's why it's also important for me to be here. when you say those social implications, what do you mean. >> i just mean the fact we are a nation of immigrants. that's most of the people you'll see here today. the issue we're having right now is we don't feel we're accepted and a lot of us are scared. i'm a citizen. i'm lucky. but many of my brothers and sisters here are not documented but who are also contributinging to this country and they are fearful because now they have a target on their backs. >> reporter: and it's that fear, richard, we're hearing a lot of people discuss, fear of what happens to the people who feel like they were marginalized by president-elect donald trump's comments prior to this moment before he was elected during his campaign, and that's why these people have chosen to take to the streets. >> morgan, thank you. we get a sense of all those numbers, right in middle of those protesters. clearly more energy than an hour
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ago. fred yang, fellow at the harvard institute of -- betsy woodruff, politics report we are the daily beast. we're watching these protests across the country right now. we're not getting a lot from the trump campaign, from the trump infrastructure, the transition team, if you will, on what has been happening here other than a couple of tweets from donald trump. dukes to hear anything from them? >> i think it might be fueling some of the folks who are currently protesting trump the lack of response from the transition team. some were concerned about the fact that the current secretary of state of kansas as well as senator jeff sessions from alabama are key members on the immigration side of trump's transition team since they're some of hawkish republicans who
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pushed hardest for more enforcement of current immigration laws as well as for more deportations. the fact we're hearing protesters today say they want all deportations to stop while simultaneously trump is bringing some of the most avid advocates of mass deportation into his fold means that these kind of conflicts, this kind of pushback, this kind of protest is really up likely to abate. >> you know, as you look at this as former deputy campaign manager for carly for president and what an administration, what a leader needs to do going forward, and, you know, betsy was saying based on the conversations about who might be on the cabinet, who's going to be part of the leadership here, that could be stoking some of the energy here, most of these protests have been peaceful, though. there have been some incidents of violence. but mtly peaceful here. who does he need to select on his team here that would make some of these individuals that are marching feel better about the president-elect?
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>> well, i just think donald trump has done so far a particularly good job of nodding to conservatives, calling the prime minister of the united kingdom and asking to return the churchill bus, for instance, to white house was a very important moment for conservatives. right now on twit ter speculation is that reince priebus will be claimed chief of staff shortly, at great move for the transition team. barack obama had increased deportations under his administration and they weren't protesting that, so i think what we're seeing with the protests is hillary clinton effectively used scare tactics as the main reason to vote for her so when she lost she is left with a lot of voter who is now believed her scare tactics. i think they should wait until the president takes office, see what action they actually disagree with, not just protest that they lost. >> yeah, and democrats will say that donald trump also used scare tactics in order to win
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the election as well. fred, to you on this. who are we seeing in the streets here? the poll numbers were showing us that there was a large class divide, if you will, of groups across different ethnic groups, for instance, that said i'm going to go with donald trump and that was the margin that donald trump was able to win by here. when we're looking at these individuals, some of which are marching for immigration, others for other issues, who are they? >> well, i think we are seeing probably not all but a decent collection of progressives and democrats who hopefully voted on tuesday, even if their candidate didn't win. and i think, you know, look, one of the things i think the new president will learn is that governing is like campaigning. and, look, sara's right. donald trump won fair and square, but these protesters also are protesting what they think they heard from
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president-elect trump during the campaign trail. and, look, i think we all have to give them a chance, but this is their constitutional right to protest policies they think are unfair, and we veal to see with the new president. it would have been the case if hillary clinton had been elected what the new president will do to sort of get from the campaigning to the governing and to hopefully unite this nation. again, we'll see. >> if hillary clinton had been elected president and there had been trump voters protesting in the streets i think we would have heard how illegitimate that was, that trump should come out and condemn those protesters. we were hearing it before the election when people said they wanted to protest hillary clinton's win. again, we hear silence from the democrats. of course it's their constitutional right. but elections have consequences, which is something our president said on his third day of his inauguration. where is that coming from the left right now? >> that's a hypothetical, though, because that did not happen.
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sarah, yesterday as we were talking with some of the protesrs out there, there were groups of women standing up saying we want to make sure we get heard, we do not support misogyny or sexual assault, one of the thematics that came out of the election. as a person that knows carly fiorina and we understand that there was a call between donald trump and carly fiorina, would she be a good choice for those who are focused and interested and committed to those very issues, women's rights? >> i think carly fiorina has always been a face of women's rights. she was is first woman to run a fortune 50 company. she ran a fortune 11 company as it turned out. so i think a lot of women do look um to carly fiorina. but we'll see. the trump administration has to put together their cabinet, their leadership. so far the signs are good for conservatives, but we need to give them room to do that. >> let's move the another potential headline today, betsy. we're waiting to get that chief of staff announcement.
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kellyanne conway saying that, you know, that decision is imminent so we could get that moiny moment, who knows when. the person who has been said to be closer to the top of the list is reince priebus. what are you hearing in terms of who might that choice before? >> it looks like reince priebus is the front-runner. there's a possibility steve bannon who came onto trump's campaign late during the election cycle and became the campaign's ceo could also be a contender. he has a lot of clout in trump's inner circle and of course is extremely well connected to the conservative media world as he used to be the chairman of breitbart news. so i'll be surprised if the chief of staff isn't one of those two men. that said, of course, trump's signature move is shocking people so it's hard to rule out anybody at this point. but keep an eye on those guys. >> betsy, those are two very different choices here as you're intimating. if they go with reince priebus, this is establishment. if you go with bannon, you're going with somebody who is
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certainly not establishment. >> bannon isn't even just not establishment. he tried to help paul ryan's primary challenger to defeat him. he brought paul nilan on many times in that time period. he said paul ryan was grown in a petrie dish at the heritage foundation. he's been completely unvarnished in his distaste and opposition to paul ryan. so, yeah, if he's the guy running the white house staff, that's going to make for some interesting conversations between the white house and the house of representatives. >> kellyanne conway saying that is imminent that announcement of who the chief of staff would be. sara, when you look at the idea of reince priebus potentially being that choice, what would that tell you about the trump administration? that's that key first role. >> i've worked for reince priebus. he's an incredibly hardworking,
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organized manager and leader. that would be a sign to conservatives that trump wants to govern as a conservative. reince priebus also hatz significant relationships with republicans on the hill, as betsy was saying, not just on the house but on the senate side as well. he's the longest serving republican chairman. so pretty much every republican in the country knows and trusts reince priebus at this point. so again, i think it would be the smart move between those two in particular, but between anyone for trump to signal to republicans and conservatives that we had a rough primary, maybe had a rough general, but now we're going to move forward as a united republican party. >> fred, the united republican party, though, is not there yet. as we saw from the election, there is a group of those who are republican and those who did vote that say we don't -- not only dislike the democratic party, we dislike also the establishment republicans too. and a reince priebus potential choice would be saying, well, we're not listening to you, at
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least to that one voting group. >> well, i mean, look, first of all, he or someone else has to be picked chief of staff. then the political ramifications will be clearer. all i'll say is a i know the analysis of last tuesday's election and it's hard to believe it was just tuesday will be ongoing, but at the end of day, when it came to partisans, republicans voted for donald trump and democrats voted for hillary clinton, and whatever intramural, internicene rivals there will be, those will happen behind the curtain. but tuesday was a republican victory up and down. >> betsy, reflect on that, because there's management styles too. reince priebus having to run the rnc, which has not been an easy job in recent years certainly as things have definitely zigged and zagged here. what is he known for in terms of the way he ran the rnc? >> you know, he's very well respected.
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he has a lot of close relationships with really influential conservatives and top republican leaders and he's been a very effective fund-raiser. when you're the rnc chairman, one of the most important jobs is raking in enough cash so the republican party can be effective nation wild. he would often talk about the fact we're currently and basically four-year presidential election cycles, one of the things he focused on is saying the rnc needed to always be laying the ground work for whoever the presidential nominee was years in advance. >> i want to interrupt you quickly because according to sources we are now hearing that reince priebus has been chosen as the next chief of staff for the president-elect and his administration. sources saying reince priebus will be that choice. betsy, surprised? >> not surprising at all. certainly a cautious choice to be making, the fact that trump is picking someone so plugged
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into the d.c. establishment, he wants someone who's a weathered washington handle to be there to perhaps balance out his inexperience. we see choices like this on the hill when a new member comes in. he or she will often pick an experienced hand to be chief of staff. that said, trump will get some pushback in large part because the theme of his last presidential campaign was drain the swamp. folks are going to say how can you when you have someone like reince priebus running your staff. we'll see how it goes. >> sara, is this a result of potentially a mike pence leading the transition process here? an establishment republican saying donald trump, you need to go with reince priebus here, you need to bring along the party, you need to bring along the energy, the money, the people that will drive your administration forward? >> well, i do think that putting mike pence in charge of transition was, again, a very smart move, a good nod to conservatives about the direction that this administration will take. i bet when we hear the background about how this
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decision was made we'll hear that it was a unanimous decision. kellyanne conway, i'm confident, was on board with this. mike peps was on board with this. reince priebus is the one who said four years ago we're foipg to make an investment in data and digital in the ground game in four-year cycles like betsy was saying. that turned out to be a highly important decision for the trump campaign that didn't have that walking into the general. so reince priebus is really why donald trump won this campaign in large part on the tactical side. so i won't be surprised if this was a unanimous decision from the group, and reince priebus isn't just a republican om ra tif but is really considered by conservatives to be a conservative as well. so i think for those who are willing to give the administration a chance this will be a good sign. >> right, right. and, fred, he is not only the head and the chair of the rnc, he is a midwesterner. as we looked at what happened on tuesday, as you were saying,
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seems so far away at the moment, this is potentially also a head nod to those states which brought donald trump to the presidency. >> well, i think as betsy and sara have intimated, as a democrat i don't know him at all, but it seems the pick is not only that aspect, richard, but just i think the recognition that in addition to winning he has to govern that. >> as he starts to govern donald trump, betsy, the question, as he's grown in the rnc and you probably remember his -- how he was dealing with press early on versus the way he deals with press today, the way he was managing the rnc earlier versus the way he does today, he has certainly grown in the role and now this next big role as chief of staff, according to nbc sources in case you're just joining us, our viewers here, reince priebus, the chairman of the rnc chosen as chief of staff.
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and actually nbc's hallie jackson has been working her sources on this sunday afternoon, can now join us. she was the one to help us to get to this point where we understand now according to our sources, hallie, reince priebus going to be the next chief of staff. >> that is the expectation, richard. i have a little background noise in my ear but we understand from sources with knowledge of the decision that reince priebus is expected to be namd the chief of staff for the trump administration. this is from sources close to both myself and katy tur, my colleague who has been covering the trump campaign. that's what we know. there's obviously a lot of implications because it does open up a position if it does happen, who becomes then the next head of the rnc is one question. the second is who does priebus bring into the west wing to work with him snl people who have been potentially working with him throughout the campaign,
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people in donald trump's orbit. it raises the question of what happens with steve bannon, who is expected to have an advisory role with donald trump. bannon of course former head of breitbart news and somebody who has been influential in trump's orbit for months now. so sort of a lot developing, rism ard, as we work our sources on this. when you look at the connections between priebus and paul ryan, longtime friends. there is a sense this will help shore up the bona fides with the establishment. but it raises questions from grassroots conservatives who may be skeptical of priebus as a pick give than as the chairman of the republican national committee he represent ts the establishment in a real way. >> in those conversations with your sources, any sense of tone this was a tough decision or it was pretty obvious this is the person we needed to go for? >> we have been reporting for a day now that priebus is considered and was considered the front-runner for this
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position. this is not surprising even before trump's election there was speculation if he won the white house it would be reince priebus who would be his chief. this is not shocking. that said there is question marks about what this means for those who selected donald trump as president, those who voted for him who may want him to be more anti-establishment in other areas. so we will see how the rest of his administration fills out. this was kind of first domino to fall. you had to pick the chief of staff and fill in positions from there. this was kind of the first one so we'll see how the rest of it shakes out now that these moves have started to be made. >> you and katy tur covering this trump transition process, and katy tur letting us know that there were two reasons in terms of why reince priebus was chosen and i'll just read what she sent to us. she said, one, he proved his
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loyalty to trump over the course of the campaign, throughout the campaign over the last year, often traveling with him and introducing him at rallies and that he stuck with him visibly during some tough times even after again that audio that we had heard where the commentary come out that was seen as misogynistic. two, the other reason that katy tur is telling us in terms of why he was chosen, reince priebus, he knows and is liked on capitol hill and potentially seen here as an olive branch to the establishment consistent with what you were saying, hallie, just moments ago in terms of some of the strengths that basically reince priebus can bring to this transition. >> i would say that was clearly a reason for the selection of priebus, obviously, as our reporting reflects. as you look back throughout the primary campaign, throughout sort of the 18 months or so that donald trump has been in this campaign, he and priebus did not always see eye to eye. you think back to what was happening in the spring, what was unfolding then during the
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primary. the two have not always had a particularly close relationship once trump became the presumptive nominee in may and officially the nominee, became much stronger. we know the two talk frequently, talk all the time. priebus was in trump tower over these last 48, 72 hours, working on the transition, had been a key part of the transition, the transition team and figuring out what roles people would get placed in. again, not surprising. it is seen as outreach to establishment. again, because of his relationships with people here in washington, but i would note as my colleague points out the tea party patriots citizens fund co-founder said naming priebus chief of staff would make it more difficult, not less, for trp to achieve the change people voted for. so concern from the grassroots activists what this would mean. >> what has been the relationship with the rnc, reince priebus, with tea party
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activists, tea party candidates, members of congress twn last two to four years? >> tumultuous, i think it's fair to say. again the selection of priebus is about making sure that -- i think it is a signal to washington that trump wants to get -- the president-elect wants to get his legislative agenda through congress, that there are things the president-elect would like to do, somebody like a reince priebus in the chief of staff position would understand how to work with congress to get that done. remember the relationshiple with house speak eer paul ryan and ve president elect mike pence. there were clearly mat lly masl tham an outsider like donald trump is able to have pieces in place, people who understand washington and who understand i believe in the president-elect's view how to get things done. >> one of the functions as many know chief of staff, basically the gatekeeper, needs to have
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the ear to the ground. >> let me instrument you here because we are getting a press release this moment naming officially, confirming what we have been reporting, that reince priebus is the white house chief of staff and that stephen bannon, the campaign ceo for donald trump, has been named chief strategist and senior counselor. there were questions over who would be chief of staff. some factions that had begun playing out already between the priebus wing and the bannon wing. both will now have senior roles in the administration. if you don't mind, i'd like to read you a little of this. bannon and priebus will continue the effective leadership team they formed during the campaign working as equal partners to transform the federal government making it much more efficient, effective, and productive. again, this is from a press release that popped into my inbox about 25 seconds ago. ut adds they'll work together with mike pence.
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here is a quote from the president-elect. i'm thrilled to have my very successful team continue with me leading our country adding steve and reince priebus are highly qualified leaders who worked well on the campaign and led us to historic victory. i will have both of them with me in the white house a we work to make america great again. i know you're trying to get it on t seen so folks can read it. steve bannon according to the press release thanking the president-elect to work with reince priebus adding more about their very successful partnership. we'll have that same partnership helping donald trump with his agenda. now from reince priebus, it is truly an honor to join president-elect trump in the white house. grate to feel the president-elect. then talking about some of the policy priorities saying we are working to create an economy that works for everyone, secure our border ts, repeal and
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replace obamacare and destroy radical islamic terrorism. he will be a great president for all americans. what i find interesting here m the line about them working as equal partners to transform the federal government. that seems to be an indication while priebus may have received the chief of staff title bannon will still hold influence in the west wing. that fits. both will have considerable influence. they both stuck with him. lots happening. >> you're the right person to have on air.
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>> sprinting from the office. >> chief strategist bannon not chosen to be chief of staff. what does that tell you in terms of the trump transition? and how have they worked together in the past, reince priebus and steve bannon? >> they're in different factions of the republican party. bannon is a flamethrower. he led breitbart, tried to lob grenades at house speaker paul ryan and members of the establishment. priebus the opposite of that, a member of the republican establishment as head of the republican national committee. his office is steps from capitol hill. while the two may have had diametrically opposed view points when it came to viewing the d.c. insiders, they both did
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in the end work toward a common cause which is getting donald trump elected as president of the united states and they were successful. donald trump tends to put people together and let folks fight it out. we've seen that in his campaign. possible by having a variety of viewpoints in the west wing that trump believes that is a way in which he'll get sort of better decisionmaking. what i'm curious to see is how the rest of the west wing fills out, who comes proefr the rnc, who doesn't, who from the campaign comes over, who doesn't. who ends up over by the rnc running that branch. so there's stale lot of dominos thatave to fall into place here setting aside, again, the cabinet and the administration positions that are yet to be filled in. we expect movement on those soon. >> we have to be talking to the trump children i'm guessing to
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get a better insight as potentially some of our sources for that. thank you so much. hallie jackson, i know off busy night ahead. >> got to run for "nightly news." >> thanks, hallie. >> thanks, rism archard. reince priebus announced as the next chief of staff for president-elect donald trump. i want to bring back our panel who has been patiently with us bringing out this breaking news. thanks for being here. sara, reince priebus, you know him well. the question is he's chief of staff. i was going to talk with hallie about this. chief of staff really the gatekeeper. who does the president talk to? what are the topics -- the pieces of paper that will be sit in fromt of the president to consider each and every day
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testimony what sort of c.o.o. is reince priebus, sara? >> the rnc, we saw quite a bit of that. he is someone who thinks forward, thinks long term. that's why we saw the investment in the ground game and the data and digital efforts. and sticks around. he was the longest serving republican chairman which shows he likes to see the job through. i think that with a unified republican government holding the senate, holding the house and now the white house, it's very important to have someone like reince who can see the whole board. so when you're looking at moving forward legislation, that's going involve a lot of different players and that's something that reince really has excelled at at the rnc. it's why the republicans have had such a sturdy bench over the last four years until particular something that democrats did not have. so it's a great move. i think reince will be very good at the management side of this in particular, and i think it's a great nod to conservatives
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about where this presidency is headed. >> is he known as a collaborator from what you know and your contact with him to balance out, if you will, what donald trump's fame is about, you know, he as the principal, the top of the hierarchy making decisions the way he wants to? will reince priebus be the opposite of that, bringing in various ideas, various individuals and being able to moderate that energy so they get a win-win here? >> i'll tell you one of the things i was most impressed working with reince is that for him he wanted all the people in the room. title wasn't the issue. it was what you could bring to the table. when we would have senior staff meetings anyone could speak up. there wasn't any sort of hierarchical structure. at the end of the day, he would make the decision and that's how we would move forward. he has a collaborative style. he wants to hear from smart people around him. i think this is a positive
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choice for uniting the country. you even see that in growth and opportunity report that he asked for at the end of 2012. that was collaborative effort among republicans from arnold the country as well. so i think that is really his style. he cares about issues, conservative policy, but he does that by bringing everyone to the table. that's his style. >> betsy, your reaction. >> not surprising, but it's going to be fascinating to watch the tensions play out between priebus and steve bannon. steve bannon has said in e-mails that were leaked to the media that his end game was to have paul ryan lose his speakership by spring. meanwhile, of course, reince priebus is very close to paul ryan. paul ryan could get torn between thee two men as they vie for influence over trump. it's very likely that on a number of issues reince priebus and steve bannon will be telling then president trump to make very different decisions. it will be important to see which gets the most clout in the
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white house and that will have a massive influence and impact on what kind of policies trump adopts, how we handle issues with immigration, of national security, priebus and bannon have different views, at least as far as we can tell on these. also importantly, reince priebus is often a peacemaker. remember, he was loyal to trump throughout the entire republican primary in his role as a fair arbiter over the republican warring factions. and priebus was under a lot of pressure from many moderate republicans to denounce trump, to try to push him out of the party, try to marginalize them. he didn't bow to that pressure and of course that seems to be a large part of why he's going to have this incredibly influential role in the white house. that said, priebus has open communication with those moderate republicans and with donors. so he's going to be an important person to be able to reach out to folks who might feel dils affected by trump's presidency on the right. however, of course that tension between him and steve bannon is going to be so fascinating to watch and it will be kind of a
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microso microsoft kompl of the tensions that exist on the right. does the republican party become the party of priebus or bannon? we'll see in a year or so. >> a question of how they'll work together bagszed on how they have worked together in the past in the ection. bottom of the hour. m breaking news. the first key decision by president-elect donald trump. that choice for his chief of staff is reince priebus. the ceo of the campaign steve bannon will become the chief strategist and senior counselor. reince priebus named white house chief of staff. steve bannon named chief strategist and senior counselor. in the press release that came to us in the last ten minutes shows they will be the two key
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individuals that will president-elect donald trump will be going to to try to drive policy and the dmur future of h administration. more reporting from our reporters on the ground. allie vitale saying a campaign source with knowledge of the decision saying that reince priebus was the pick last night and then you had kellyanne conway telling us today that the announcement of the decision was going to be imnegligent and then we get that decision and the press release at this 4:00 hour in the east. this source say iing, quote, instead of draining the swamp, we just put in the head alligator. that had been said by allie vitale, a nonplussed reaction to choice. carly -- i'm sorry. sarah, what is your thought on that statement, putting in the head alligator?
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>> that's someone who doesn't know reince priebus very well. one of the things at the rnc that reince would often do is host a happy hour for conservative bloggers and writers from across d.c. and northern virginia as well. so he's actually very well respected by a lot of writers on the left. that sounds to me like someone who is basing this off of past chairmans of the rnc perhaps and doesn't actually know reince. reince is a wisconsin conservative father of two young kids, a great lawyer who had worked in the state of wisconsin as well, and has actually reassembled the republican party over the last few years to have a mission and to build out that data and digital, the ground game, the growth and opportunity report. it's why you see the bench that the republicans have. it's not an accident republicans not just won the white house but won the senate, now control even more state legislatures after they took kentucky, controlled
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the vermont governorship, for instance. this is a sign of having a deep bench and that takes years to build. that is due to reince priebus. >> talk about deep benches, i want to bring in somebody who's been part of the deep bench, msnbc contributor jarrett bernstein. also petr morris si, bringing you in. reince priebus chief of staff. what do you think about this choice? your reaction to the head not to the establishment. >> exactly that, a head nod to the establishment. and a nod away from the anti-establishment not choosing bannon. a pretty clear statement there that the anti-establishment part of the trump phenomenon is on hold at least for moment.
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i think the connection to paul ryan shouldn't be underappreciated because that suggs to me a couple agenda items including the big trickle-down tax cut that both donald trump ran on them, also paul ryan has teed up in the house now for years on end. he's got his own version of that tax plan. so i expect to see that lifted quite high up on the legislative order and also repealing key parts of the affordable care act a long paul ryan preference, one of donald trump's as well. one other point. when i worked for first obama administration there was no meeting i had in the oval office that rahm emanuel wasn't there. i think people can't overestimate the importance of the chief of staff and their connection to new president. >> you have to dig um old episode of "the west wing" and then you could get a sense of the importance of this role and how it actually works day to
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day. peter morici, reince priebus from the midwest, wisconsin, key states affected by it will movement of our economy within the last two decades away from manufacturing, a space where individual individuals have shown, hey, don't forget about us. don't forget about how to talk to us. reince priebus is from that space. he could be here, peter, somebody that will really be able to bring that language, this that message to the white house. >> he certainly will be and the liaison to the house of representatives in a very important way. if trump went in the other direction to bannon, he'd be facing two opposition par anies the house, have the democrats to contend with and paul ryan in the opposition because they would be at loggerheads.
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ryan himself has problems within his own caucus because of the tea party. we know obamacare will be repealed but with some popular elements maintained or it will be severely amended. this means it's going to be ryan's architecturarchitecture. that doesn't mean it's smooth sailing because he'll have problems of his own with regard to the very conservative elements of the republican party. it also means that we're going to see a toning down of the trump tax cuts. the trump tax cuts, this notion they could pay for themselves on the growth they generate alone, that's not going to happen. we'll see something more along the lines of the kind of tax reforms that congressional republican republicans have been advocating and that's probably a good thing. it's affordable, it will generate growth, and i think it will be generally positive for the country. at the end of the day this limits the presidential power. you can govern by executive order but it's not very smart because the next guy can come
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along and undo it. what's more it create an awful lot of contention. go back to the eisenhower administration. dwy eisenhower did not have the experience to be president of the united states and a consensus of republicans ran the country. i think that is what we are looking towards but with people like bannon still in the white house, look for it to have a conservative bent. >> i want to add to our virtual table here. allie vitale, who i was quoting earlier, the draining the swamp metaphor and allie, you were saying what you were hearing from this will nonplussed individual's reaction was they put in the head alligator. what else are you hearing? >> that's exactly what i'm hearing. we heard this late last night when the decision was being finalized they were going to put reince priebus in the chief of staff spot. i would think of it as you heard that quote from earlier, a source telling me we look to drain the swamp and we ended up putting in the head alligator.
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that's one side. on the other side off group of people in the establishment wing of the gop who are overjoyed with reince priebus because it looks like an olive branch to them. donald trump ran as someone giving a lot of red meat to this right wing ultraconservative piece of his base, this is more of an olive branch to them saying he's going to work with people like paul ryan on this better way plan they've had for a long time in congress and that's going to be something he'll focus on they hope going forward. at the same time putting in steve bannon also assures the base that he's still the same candidate who has those ultraconservative values he did run on during the campaign so this is definitely a straddling of positions and it's so soon after the election i think i had one source telling me this might be a sellout. to hear that so soon from people who have been both with the campaign and around the campaign for so long is definitely something you want to watch when
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you see of course half of america who didn't vote for trump reacting and now the people who voted for him feeling a little betrayed about this choice. he has to walk this line in the days and weeks ahead. >> allie, that's what's interesting, the fine line and how they're negotiating it. as you've been talking with your sources, any sense of the tone or how this process is working out? are they lock step together, the children as well as mike pence or is there some difficulty? what are you hearing or sensing? >> i'm not sensing that there's, you know, disagreement. there are multiple camps pushing for different things. there were people who have been pushing for reince priebus to be chief of staff, taking the a little more of the republican establishment route, people pushing for the same kind of campaign they ran, no holds barred, say anything and
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establishment be damned kind of campaign he was running at one point. there are still those camps there. i had one person describe it to me as multiple feast doms during the campaign, different people pushing for different things. that being said, the buck does stop with donald trump and he's made it clear these are his choices through the campaign during the campaign and now as president-elect. as much as he listens to the last person he spoke to, this is very much his choice. >> great stuff, allie. if you're just joining us, just getting this in. m receiving the perez release from the president-elect and his transition team that reince priebus will be the next white
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house chief of staff. steve bannon, the ceo of the campaign, named chief strategist and senior counselor. in that press release, clear to say these two will be extremely influential, obviously the white house chief of staff in that position being the key gate keeper to the president-elect. peter morici, at the bottom of the press lease it says from reince priebus, in part, he mentions that he wants to serve the president and the country as it works to create an economy that works for everyone. one of those points, we were talking about it earlier here, peter, was about the tax plan. you and jared were hinting toward that. the tax plan when we look at it, helping those who are financially challenged, the numbers don't seem to be right
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how it is now. the tax policy center saying trump's tax plan will hope those at the very top reduce their tax burden by 14%, those at the very bottom by only 1% a year. will we see this tax plan change, peter? >> i think we will. first of all, the tax plan is too ebs pensive. second of all, the tax structure is very complex and hopefully we'll get a less complex tax structure, easier to comply with, maybe a much larger stan darld sta standard deduction. donald trump indicated he wanted one for children with families. we've gone through a succession of presidents after reagan who basically the republicans would cut taxes for everybody then the democrats would raise tacks on the wealthy, the republicans
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would cut taxes for everybody. so we've gotten to a much more progressive tax structure than we had say in the days of jimmy carter. now it's hard to have a program that encourages investment, that encourages entrepreneurs without cutting taxes more at the top than the bottom. there's no way around that. our corporate taxes are among the highest in the world and with britain cutting its taxes further, breaking away from europe, becoming more entrepreneurial, we'll have to be competitive. there's nothing that donald trump can do that's right for the economy and right for fiscal sanity without having folks on the right saying he's not conservative enough and on the left saying that he's in it for the big guy alone. in the end, getting the economy to grow, that's the real key to helping ordinary people. 50% of the country doesn't pay a whole lot of income tax now so you can't benefit them by cutting taxes. you can give them some more
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child care money, but at the end of the day, the best thing you can do for them is to go from 2% growth to 3% growth. you have no -- i'm sure you have an idea, our viewers need to understand the absolute consequences of 3% verls 2% growth. it means wages rise, it's easy to gate job, new college graduates aren't working at starbucks in so many numbers. there are so many positive things that happen. there has to be a focus on that, not just the immediate effect on the 1040. >> i don't want anyone on this panel to get mad at me for saying this, the whole idea of shovel ready projects which we've heard before, and donald trump saying i'm going to put a trillion dollars towards some of those ideas of shovel ready projects. is that what will boost the goose, the gdp, that peter morici is saying there will help all those across america? >> if we were to do an infrastructure investment plan, that would help a lot more than the tax cult.
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what peter is describing is something that really just has never worked in the history of the last 30 years of republican trickle down supply side tax plans. so the idea here is that -- >> ronald reagan's plan worked. >> if you cut tacks for those at the top of the scale, far more for those at the middle or the bottom, the people at the top will somehow spend it or nvms it in a way that will create faster growth. this didn't work for ronald wray rey gan or george w. bush. it worked in reverse for bill clinton who raised taxes and got a productivity boom. this is simply supply side trickle-down economics. you can dress it up however you want, but historically it leads to an exacerbated inequality problem at the same time whacking the heck out of our fiscal casualties and it means you don't have the resources to do the infrastructure investment that you need. by the way, this holds whether you're doing donald trump's tax plan or paul ryan's tax plan. they're essentially very much
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structured in that same trickle-down way. so please let's not fall for that once again. >> all right. i see that you, gerald, and peter are lock step together on the way you think this will work. thanks for sticking with us as we went through the breaking news. we'll talk more about this topic. but things happen as they do. the breaking news is that reince priebus announced by donald trump and his transition team to be the next white house chief of staff and one of the first comments he made after being named as that is that he will work to help and create an economy that works for everyone, hence we were talking about tax plans and gdp and how to help the economy for everyone. our panel is still with us. fred, sarah and betsy.
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openness, inxlugs, having a very welcoming view. that said, of course, it's not surprising coming from reince. just four years a ago after mitt romney lost his bid against barack obama reince priebus oversaw the publication of the growth and opportunity project report referred to as the gop autopsy. in that report a lot of folks close to the bush administration made the case that the republican party needed to embrace comprehensive immigration reform often known as amnesty, in order to improve
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the economy and the elections going forward. trump did the opposite of that, pushing for a more restricted immigration policy and had this amazing win on tuesday. the fact reince is talking about building an inclusive open economy, that's vague language, but it will be interesting to see if folks on the right who supported a lesser restrictive immigration policy are hoping reince might be the person who makes the case to trump that maybe we shouldn't have as many deportations or maybe we should look at expanding or maintaining the visas we have for high-scale immigration. reince priebus will probably be the most effective person to make that argue tomt trump. likely he's getting phone calls from those who hope it will build a stronger economy for everyone. >> he's also getting tweets. newt gingrich tweeting about this decision.
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he says this -- sar sarah, where does newt gingrich go now as we think of what might be the next position to be called now that they've decided where two very influential individuals will go? >> well, newt gingrich has always been the idea guy within the party. i wouldn't be surprised if there's a special carveout for newt gingrich somewhere where he can just sit and have ideas all day, some of which, you know, a little on the zany side, some of which are great conservative ideas to move forward on. we'll see about that. another neat ote on reince prie. he appointed katie walsh his chief of staff at the rnc, the youngest woman ever to run a national political party. if that says something about who reince will be looking at within
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the trump administration, i once again think that's a very good thing for the republican party. >> fred, as you've been listening to the conversation here, the question might be at least we discussed this today on msnbc, might they bring in now as future decisions will be announced, might they bring in a centrist democrat? might they bring in somebody who as you bring in this team of rivals, right, to work together that is a variety of perspectives from all across the political spectrum and for that maer from across the country that might react to who brought president-elect trump to the white house? do you see that as a possibility? >> it's very hard to prognosticate as a democrat. if he did something like that, a
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big if, it would show that he understands that the mandate, if there was one from tuesday, it's murky, let's not forget, richard, if not for a switch of 58,000 votes total in wisconsin, michigan, and pennsylvania, hillary clinton would be president. so to me that would be a pragmatic practical thing to do. i'm not sure that pragmatism or practicality is what you do as president-elect looking forward to your honeymoon. >> you heard our panel discuss what might be next and who might be good for this administration. what might be next, allie? >> i think when you're looking at what might come next, a lot of people are buzzing about the idea of infrastructure. i think in light of this decision wa you'll want to look at is definitely the fate of some of his more controversial policies. you'll want to look at what happens to the wall.
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the wall was one of the things that he ran on most successfully during the election. you would like to see wit the ultraright that kind of bolstered his rise in the beginning and propelled him through to the ultimate position. >> all right. msnbc's allie vitale, thank you so much. i thank our panel as well. fred, sarah as well as belt si woodruff. thank you all four as we have been covering breaking news. reince priebus about 30 minutes to be the next white house chief of staff and steve bannon being the chief strategist and senior counselor. this as we are watching in the streets across the country
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protests that do continue in new york city, for instance, now as we hit another day where people are taking to the streets. all finished. umm... you wouldn't want your painter to quit part way. i think you missed a spot. so when it comes to pain relievers, why put up with just part of a day? aleve, live whole not part. painter: you want this color over the whole house?
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