good morning and welcome to "am joy". the death of fidel castro, one of the most iconic and polarizing figures of the 20th century has prompted an outpouring of responses from around the world ranging from sorrow to celebration. while some responses read like a four-word gut reaction, president obama's statement read in part, we know that this moment fills cubans with powerful emotions. history will record and judge the enormous impact of this singular figure on the people and world around him.
it didn't take long for republicans to criticize president obama. among them, florida senator marco rubio, himself a cuban-american and one of the most outspoken critics who tweeted, president obama issued a pathetic statement on the death of fidel castro with no mention of thousands who he killed. jeb bush tweeted, failing to mention that millions have suffered because of fidel castro is a strategy. joining me, joan walsh, terrell germane star and senior political reporter for msnbc news. thank you all for being here. let's talk about the politics of the response. you had jeb bush, ted cruz and marco rubio leading the pack in terms of really being critical of president obama's statement, but on the other hand, you had
donald trump tweeting out fidel castro is dead, exclamation point. what was the response to both of those responses in south florida among the cuban-american community? >> well, i think this is one of those cases where the cuban-american community overwhelmingly was in favor of the response mentioned by donald trump, not so much his initial tweet which was a little bizarre at first to be honest with you but the followup response which the point is he should probably resist always the impulse to tweet and let his advisers and staffers craft a more sensible message. let's be honest, i think president obama's statement did leave a little wanting reaction, especially from some members of the cuban-american community, myself being one of them. but that isn't what i think is going to echo in history. for president obama's legacy, the words of his that will remain in history are the words that he delivered in the national assembly in havana when he went into the belly of the east and undressed the regime to their faces. while some folks want to make a
big issue about this statement, that will soon be forgotten. those words where he delivered earlier this year where he talked about that what regime was about i think will be obama's legacy on this matter and the regime. >> you do have this dynamic in south florida where second and third generation cuban-americans are drifting more toward the democratic party. barack obama won the state twice because he overperformed with cuban-americans who want more openness. i want to talk about the polling in 2015 that showed cubans in cuba want to have more openness. what do you think the politics are for the president at this time? he's continuing to try to teach donald trump about being diplomatic. >> i think it showed a lot of differences between the two of them. obama's statement almost moved beyond castro very quickly. it was written almost to the cuban people.
he used the phrase the cuban people want to move forward. it was much more about the population than about castro and it went to the idea that obama is trying to make this normalizing relations with cuba, opening the embargo, trying to make that a part of his legacy and he's trying to convince donald trump that he's right on this issue but early indications are donald trump -- reince priebus today said the trump administration will absolutely reconsider obama's policy on cuba. you're already seeing this two-month fight that's going to continue on issue after issue where the obama administration is trying to entrench their policies and the trump folks are trying to review them. trump during the campaign really blasted this policy so it will be interesting to see if he governs differently. >> terrell, i want to talk about the global reaction to this as well because you did have justin trudeau of canada, the prime minister of canada, tweet a positive encomb yum to fidel
castro. people are supposed to be world leaders are tweeting. he said both mr. castro's supporters and detractors recognized his tremendous dedication and love for the cuban people. now the president of south africa on the death of fidel castro, president castro identified with our struggle against apartheid. he inspired the cuban people to join us in our own struggle against apartheid. that actually became an issue in miami after nelson mandela was freed. he was dissed in miami. there's a big difference with how the world is reacting. >> one of the things we have to delve into is why do so many black people like fidel castro. one of the things i found is what's consistent in communist states, even though they don't live up to equality, there are
some positive results. if you look at russia for example where i studied, we have records going back to 1921 where communist leaders were conceiving ways in which they would fight what they would call counter imperialist states, america, so what they saw as an opportunity to take advantage of imperialism that was suppressing black people. so you take for example in many parts of africa, they engage in what we call education diplomacy. thousands of africans study in africa and in addition to that -- >> study in cuba. >> cuba and africa. so one of the main differences that we saw is that you have many states, if you think about zimbabwe, ang oh la, hundreds of millions of dollars were invested in those countries. in the case of russia, the russians were never able to
overcome their slavicness. even though you saw benefits education-wise, even financial, it didn't play out. cuba is the same thing. so upside is that the literacy rate in cuba and the life expectancy right is roughly the same. castro definitely did make sure that those aspects were realized. the downside was that the cubans, white cubans in particular, were not able to overcome their race privilege. either way, there's a strong respect for castro because they felt he tried to address race in ways that many western democracies did not. >> i want to go back quickly to fernand. that's something i kind of experienced in south florida. there's a difference the way cubans who are more spaniard lineage and black cubans experienced the world when they came to the united states. if you were a black cuban who came in the 1950s you suddenly were black. is there a difference between
the way afro cubans and angelo cubans are experiencing the death of fidel castro or are they united on him? >> they're united. he was a brutal dictator. i think adolph hitler is the only one who comes to mind where a man has single handedly destroyed a country. that's what fidel castro did. it doesn't matter he gave free healthcare and literacy to a population that was imprisoned. it's no accident that no one tries to go to cuba. everyone tries to leave cuba. young people, the number one desire for their future is to leave cuba. that's not much of a legacy for a totalitarian dictator. i thought justin trudeau's comments were at odds to what fidel castro has done to the people. he's not once allowed for
elections and freedom of expressions. good riddance to his death. >> you had newt gingrich say the outpouring of fidel castro who was a relentless dictator. ted cruz came out, ted cruz's father left cuba as well. i think they genuinely left as exiles. marco rubio may not have been so honest about the way his family left. you have stark dweriversions between the right and left. i'm not sure bernie sanders has made a statement. >> what i'm struck by, joy, in this situation as in so many others, president obama and to some extent the democrats but let's give credit to president obama is looking forward and these republican figures are looking backwards and they want to restart the cold war. they have this narrow parochial, bitter, stuck approach to this. i thought the president's statement was perfect. i thought it acknowledged the
divisiveness but didn't go over the top as so many republicans did. >> i want to say something. one of the things i want to start off with. i'm not cuban so it's not my place to tell you how to feel about fidel castro or that experience. i want to be clear about that. one thing i will say is that human rights has never really been a requirement for america to negotiate for any country. and so when we think about fidel castro's human rights abuses, i don't think i'm trying to lie niez him or say he's a saint. no one is saying that. what we are saying is that there are certain aspects of what he has done in his views towards black people, even though they weren't fully realized, were sentiments people appreciate. i think that's nuance and context. we know he was a brutal dictator. we know he was all those things that president barack obama said about him and his regime. another thing you have to keep in mind is that the reason why we hear the cuban-american exile
voice so often is primarily because of the proximity to the country. if you think about saudi arabia, saudi arabia officials sanctioned killings of people in public all the time. what's our proximity to them? oil. so if you think about kazakhstan for example, kazakhstan brutalizes its people every day. what's our relations with kazakhst kazakhstan? air space. i think the larger question americans need to ask is why do we hear the cuban american narrative so much. it's not to dishonor the tragedies and the pain of what they've experienced. it's just the fact that there are other states around the world that do terrible things but we don't hear their voices. it's no way disrespect to cuban people and the tragedies they experienced. >> i'll give fernand the last
word. >> my last word is that fidel castro for 56 years or more has created an apartheid state in cuba. it's ironic the word apartheid would be used. it's embarrassing to the legacy and honor to nelson mandela who was a true freedom fighter. castro put people in jail for expressing dissension of thought. that's a legacy that under no circumstances have been lie niezed, romanticized. i give president obama credit for having said that to the face of that regime when he spoke earlier in havana. i'll look past the statement which i thought expressing condolences to the family of castro may not be the best of touch but i think the sentiment is right. we need to think about the cuban people because it's them and the 12 million on the island that have been suffering over the castro dictatorship that need solace. >> interesting to see if this incoming administration can find the subtlety because diplomacy
is a lot about subtlety and i don't see a lot of it from the group that's coming into the white house. up next, donald trump had tough words for castro but he didn't mind doing business in cuba when castro was still running the show, and it wasn't exactly legal. stay with us. ♪ ♪ see ya next year. this season, start a new tradition. experience the power of infiniti now, with leases starting at $319 a month. infiniti. empower the drive.
this kind of government knows how to help business to encourage it. the hotels here are bigger and swankier than any of the rough joints we put in vegas, and we can thank our friends in the cuban government which has put up half of the cash with the teamsters on a dollar for dollar basis as relaxed restrictions on imports. what i'm saying is that we have
now what we have always needed, real partnership with the government. smaller piece. >> who doesn't love that scene. the famous scene in the godfather 2 when the mob meets on the rooftop in havana, symbolically taking a piece of cake depicting the island of cuba. it was a nod to the king pin who helped fess toon cuba with night clubs and high stakes crime. we are not equating any real or fictional mobster with donald trump but he's now in a position to potentially profit from a more open cuba by turning it into the next hot marketplace for american consumerism. which trump will cuba get? back with me are joan, terrell, perry and fernand. i want to play two sound bites. these are from donald trump in september and one month later in october. this is donald trump in september. we'll play that one first. he's talking about barack obama, president obama's openness on cuba, his deal. go.
>> all of the concessions that barack obama has granted the castro regime were done through executive order which means the next president can reverse them, and that i will do unless the castro regime meets our demands. those demands will include religious freedom for the cuban people and the freeing of political prisoners. >> that was the hard line position that donald trump took on september 16th. he basically sounds like marco rubio, right? now this is one month later on october 23rd. this is donald trump on cbs in miami. take a look. >> the agreement obama signed is a very weak agreement. we get nothing. the people of cuba get nothing. and i would do whatever is necessary to get a good agreement. an agreement is fine. it has to be a strong, good agreement that's good for the cuban people. >> okay, a little bit softer.
but this is donald trump in an article that came out on september 29th news week's kirkicen wald brought out the following, a company controlled by donald trump secretly conducted business during fidel castro's presidency, according to interviews with former trump executives, internal records and court filings. you have a guy who's talking real hard line right now but when fidel castro before he handed over power to his brother raoul, donald trump was doing business there. >> no one knows because with donald trump there is no consistent position. it depends on how the sun rises. you hear that rhetoric, joy, and i think that's part of the problem with the republican party rhetoric on the subject of cuba. for cuban-americans of which i
am one, this has been a painful subject because the rhetoric has been bellicose and strong, but in terms of walking the walk on that talk, there hasn't been aa walk. i know that that tone did change after kirk iken wald's article came out. >> the cnn exit polling, perry, showed that donald trump won the cuban-american vote handily in florida. 54/41 versus hillary clinton. noncuban latinos went the other way, 71 for clinton, 26% for trump. so he does have some obligation to the people who voted for him to stick to the bellicose language that he did, but we do know that donald trump has already been meeting with business partners from mumbai and other places and he does have an interest in continuing his commerce. is there any way to tell what it is that he would actually want to do once he's in a position to open cuba for business? >> i don't think we do because
we know, you know, his base, we know those are already irrelevant in some ways. he said he's going to lock her up and this week said maybe not, i don't want to do that after all. i don't think his promises during the campaign tell us a whole lot. there's been evidence that his voters don't even really expect him to follow through on his promises which i guess is helpful in some ways. i don't think ivanka is going to open a trump hotel in havana but we don't necessarily know what he wants to do, how he's going to use his business to enhance the presidency and the presidency to enhance his business. we know the republican party wants to move in a different direction. reince priebus talked about it today. we know the republican party wants to walk back this engagement. >> joan, to that point, mike pence tweeted just days before the election on november 4th, donald trump will repeal obama's executive orders on cuba and continue the embargo until
there's real political and religious freedom. we talked to the congressman from south florida yesterday on the show. there's no reason to expect that the congress will roll back the embargo. so donald trump is essentially locked into that position, but we also have seen and experienced who donald trump is over the years, and commerce is really what matters to him. >> and we know there's open warfare between factions of the incoming trump administration with pence and prebus kind of hard line but still republican side and kellyanne conway and steve bannon, i don't know what they stand for except punishing mitt romney, we'll get to that later. but we all share this sense of bewilderment because we have no idea which trump we're going to get but we know that he really cares about his business and imagine that would lead him to keep up the obama course. he'll have business people advocating for that. does he care more about his business cronies or about the cuban-americans who voted for him. i think it's probably obvious.
>> that is the point because part of the pitch that donald trump made to american voters was that, look, i'm the guy who's going to bring back jobs and small business and we know there's a faction of the republican party that wants to sell people in cuba, wants marriotts and hiltons in there. there's a faction of his party that wants that. >> i think most americans, how has america benefitted from this embargo. it's hard to find it. really what i think is going on with this embargo and i'll get to your larger point, america long before fidel castro came into power was a hostile state to cuba. america, after the spanish-american war, for three years was a protect rat, that's white supremist language for occupation. before fidel castro became a thing, there was hostility between those two countries, so going into the larger point of
cuba is that there's so many -- jetblue is there, delta is there. so do you really think that the business community, forget about the general population, that the business community really wants to go back on that. i don't think so. this issue is much larger than donald trump and i think he's going to find out that the oval office is a lot more limiting -- >> than he thinks. really quickly, you're the only person on this roundtable that i know of that's actually polled on the island. do people in cuba want more commerce or are they concerned about being overrun from the marriotts and the hiltons that want to get in there? >> they're desperate. of course they want engagement. cuba is an island and the fear is that as raul castro operates that cuba transitions from a totalitarian dictatorship to a
monarchy that's now passed on to castros in name, whether it's cousins or uncles or nephews or sons. of course the cuban people want openness and engagement. they don't want an island dictatorship. >> dropping the embargo would give them the openness and commerce that they want but you have this political process not to drop it. we'll be talking about it more on this show. thank you very much. up next, a ridiculous wall and promises he probably won't keep. i'm not talking about trump's immigration plan. it's what he did to the people of scotland. that story is next. is just a few days away. changes to medicare plans could impact your healthcare costs. are you getting all the benefits available to you? call healthmarkets and we'll help you find the medicare plan that's right for you. hi, i'm doctor [martin gizzi.] it's a new medicare year. that means more changes ... and more confusion.
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temporary insanity as they elect an ego maniac. well before we heard trump's pledge to build a wall and make someone else pay for it, he had already tried and failed to do the same thing in scotland. this summer when trump ditched the campaign trail for a promotional stop at the newest of his two golf courses in scotland, he ran into opposition over his first course. in the decade since trump first arrived there, he has clashed with residents in nearby ball moddy who resisted trump's attempts to buy their properties and force them to leave. when one couple refused to sell, they say trump built a wall on the border between their property and his course, then sent them the bill for $3500 in the mail. that bill, they told the times, went straight into the trash. they say they are still waiting
on him to make good on the promise of thousands of jobs and the billion dollar investment that initially helped him win public support for the course. as one official warned, if america wants to know what is coming, they should study what happened here. he suckered the people and politician until he got what he wanted and then went back on everything he promised. next, a story that got buried but not anymore. the standing rock tribe, the leader joins me leave when we come back. soi this is lulu, our newest dog.
mom didn't want another dog. she said it's too much work. lulu's hair just floats. uhh help me! (doorbell) mom, check this out. wow. swiffer sweeper, and dusters. this is what i'm talking about. look at that. sticks to this better than it sticks to lulu. that's your hair lulu! mom, can we have another dog? (laughing) trap and lock up to 4x more dirt, dust and hair than the store brand stop cleaning. start swiffering.
no intention of adopting.er, he was the very last kennel in the very last row. emaciated. he was skin and bones. usually what you see in neglected dogs. it was one of those complete, meant-to-be moments... i totally fell in love with him. (avo) through the subaru share the love event, we've helped the aspca save nearly thirty thousand animals so far. get a new subaru, and we'll donate another two hundred and fifty dollars to help those in need. ♪put a little love in your heart.♪ . a major new development in a grossly underreported story from north dakota. the army corps of engineers has given the standing rock tribe 12 months to vacate. if they reloose to leave, they
could face trespassing charges. the tribe say it affects their drinking water and disrupts sacred land. last week police used water cannons on protestors. the corps says that closing the camp is necessary to protect the public from those kinds of clashes and protect the protestors. the corps says it set up a so-called free speech zone to the south of the camp. the company that's building the pipeline says it is moving forward with construction. joining me now on the phone is dave arch 'em bault. chairman, this letter from the army corps of engineers says, quote, the decision is necessary for your protection, the protection from the public of the violent confrontations that have occurred in this area or to prevent death, illness or serious injury due to harsh winter conditions. do you buy that explanation, sir? >> i'm also concerned with
safety, but it seems like this move by the corps of engineers could have an opposite effect of keeping people safe. we understand that that the confrontations are escalating to where the police are starting to use aggressive force and intentionally hurt people, and now with this order from the corps of engineers to vacate the land, it's going to have our allies dig in deeper and say this is our land and we shouldn't be asked to leave when we're being prayerful and peaceful in this camp site. >> where is this free speech zone, how far is it from where you are now and in your view is it an acceptable alternative? >> i don't think it's an acceptable alternative because it's such a small space. what the letter is indicating is that the land south of the cannon ball river which is on the standing rock reservation
citing available for the free speech zone, but this is all federal land, this is all federal public land. we're occupying the north side of the cannon ball river which is off the standing rock reservation. it's a flat area that is able to accommodate the masses of people who are standing and supporting with us. >> to be clear, the land that you're on is public land, not private land that's owned by the company that's building the pipeline? >> right. this is all federal land. it's the corps of engineers' land, the land they have taken. >> senator al franken the minnesota issued a statement on the protest and said the reported use of water cannons for crowd control in subfreezing temperatures is access sieve and unnecessary and i've called on the united states department of justice to takes action to protect the first amendment rights of protestors and the physical safety of all involved parties. had you heard from the
department of justice or any federal agencies besides the army corps of engineers with regards to the issue of water cannons? >> we have awareness all the time. we've called the department of justice and the u.n. and said look at the inhumane activities taking place by the sheriff's department and they're using these water cannons. it's interesting, the county sheriff, the day after this had happened, he said they used the water cannons to put out fires that the protestors started. and then there's countless video that showed that they were targeting human beings with this water in freezing temperatures which is a real risk of causing hypo thermia. then they used rubber bullets and they're targeting people's heads. they say these are nonlethal weapons but when you have a projectile aimed at somebody's head, you have a chance to lose
somebody's eye and possibly kill them. this is not nonlethal anymore and that's one of the things that i'm concerned about is the aggressive force that the state of north dakota and the county police are starting to use. it's escalating. when we stand in prayer and peace and pray on these lands where the camp is, the confrontations have nothing to do with the camp. they're outside of where people are camping. >> just to be clear one last time, you said you've contacted the department of justice. have they responded to you, and if so, what have they told you? >> they had observers out and the observers and a mediator had come out to try to build communication between law enforcement and myself and people at the camp. the day after we had the meeting law enforcement then uses mace on water protecters while they're standing on water so it doesn't do any good. >> stay with me, please.
i want to bring in joan walsh and mark thompson. mark, you look at the history of movement such as this, the water protecters here who as what we are calling the protestors call themselves because they're on sacred land that's their traditional sacred land and are trying to protect themselves from water cannon. does it surprise you that you haven't seen a more robust response from the d.o.j.? >> not at all. from what dave described, i'm in solidarity with you, brother. stay strong. what he just described sounds like the group they normally send out in situations like this that really doesn't do anything with all due respect. it's the c.r.s., community relations service, and they come and try to talk and mitigate and be nice and it's meaningless if 24 hours later they're going to be using mace or fire hose. i guess a water cannon is a
firehouse. i'm troubled by this deadline and i think dave's right, that's federal land, they should be allowed to stay. they didn't do this in the bundy situation. they had guns. they were ready to shoot everybody and the government and everybody else backed off. why are they using birmingham style tactics. >> we saw the dogs. >> you saw with the occupation by people who came from the bundy ranch protest, this was the same protest metastasized onto the wildlife preserve where they occupied the buildings, prevented federal workers, did untold amount of damage and were completely let off the hook, no charges, no real consequences that the one person who drew guns on law enforcement and was killed. so with these precedents, the federal government allowing the bundy ranch situation to go on,
allowing the situation to drag on and on, how can they now say to these native american citizens, you have to leave at this date? >> how does the army corps of engineers not hear that this date is so orwellian. we're telling you we're moving to protect you, we're not telling law enforcement to stop brutalizing you. it's shocking. >> i want to ask the chairman one other thing. you have the person who's going to be the next president of the united states who was an investor in this pipeline. the "washington post" on wednesday reported that trump's share in the pipeline in a may 2015 disclosure, one of the few disclosures we got about his finance was listed between $500,000 and $1 million. it had fallen in value to less than $50,000 when he sold it last summer. does it trouble you, chairman, that you have the next president of the united states who was an investor in the pipeline and received campaign donations from the people behind the pipeline?
>> that's what we're up against. we're up against politicians who receive money all the time for their political campaigns and for their office. the state of north dakota, every elected official here gets a large amount of money -- even the democrats get money for their position. so it doesn't surprise me that the next president is going to be intertangled with this industry. so that's what we're up against and we understand that. what we do is we just let everybody know the only thing that we have is the support and the people who stand by us, and if we could continue to build awareness about the situation and build awareness about what's happening to our water and what's happening to mother earth, we do have a force as well. it's a challenge when you're up against politicians who receive money. >> and mark, one of the things
that we're starting to see is environmentalists and other supporters targeting bankers who are behind the pipeline, financing it, banks that are behind it, funding it including citibank, wells fargo, t.d. bank of canada, is that what we're going to see as the next phase, targeting the people behind the pipeline? >> i hope so. we need full-time activism, full-time solidarity. the segment about fidel castro in which people line up his legacy and the pros and cons, perhaps this can go in the pro column. he supported civil indian nations seeking sovereignty in the united states when he took over cuba. even he stood for sovereignty of native americans before the united states did. i think that goes in the pro column. we should follow that example and use this weekend which we call thanks taking to say this these original people in the united states deserve their rights, deserve to be upheld and
the land deserves to be protected. >> the number of promises broken to the native american people is a scandal and we apparently cannot stop breaking promises to them. joan walsh will be back our next hour. thank you all for being here. we will keep up with what's going on. >> thank you. up next, whose advice would you seek to help pick a secretary of state? if you're donald trump you ask fabio. yeah, that happened. stay tuned. gaviscon is a proven heartburn remedy that gives you fast-acting, long-lasting relief. it immediately neutralizes acid and only gaviscon helps keep acid down for hours. for fast-acting, long-lasting relief, try doctor-recommended gaviscon.
the "new york post" reports that over turkey and the trimmings at his mar-a-lago estate, trump was seeking advice about whether to go with mitt romney or giuliani. among whose sage advice trump received, romance novel hunk fabio and boxing promoter don king. let's bring in my pal and nbc senior political correspondent. i can say they're my pals, but we're not friends. >> that's right. >> let's talk about this weird dynamic where donald trump seems to be so confused as to what to do. he's taking advice from his dinner guests including fabio. what is going on here? >> i wasn't at dinner so i can't -- >> how did you not get invited? >> had i been there and it's a nice place, but donald trump is fairly inclusive with everybody. he's asking them -- it's obvious
he's asking everybody's opinions. >> only people from the '80s. >> well, a lot of us are from the '80s. i'm not sure he wasn't being polite in this case or whether he was really asking their opinion. a lot of times i think when you watch donald trump he puts that sounding board out there to see what people are hearing in public too because i think you're getting ready to see the first president that will soon be isolated from all this talk and all this stuff that surrounds the presidency in my opinion, and i see that with the way that he's hiring the cabinet. but i think it matters to him how all this is being perceived. i don't think fabio can give me a really good answer on how it's perceived. >> this is unprecedented. i have to play this kellyanne conway sound bite because her twitter feed has been fascinating lately. she seems to be completely going against her own way and decided they do not want mitt romney.
this is kellyanne conway on cnn this morning. >> the number of people who feel betrayed to think that a governor romney would get the most prominent cabinet post after he went so far out of his way to hurt donald trump, there was the never trump movement and then there was mitt romney. he gave speeches against donald trump, he attacked his character. >> have you ever heard of a member of a team of an incoming president going on television and essentially throwing one of his choices that he seems to be interested in over the side? >> well joy, the twilight zone presidency of donald trump continues. what's he going to do next, make mitt romney grofl and apologize or consult with vladimir putin on who should be the next secretary of state. that's exactly what he's going to do next. if it wasn't so funny, it's actually frightening. for me at least this recalls back to the runup of the iraq
war back in 2002 when it seemed like the mainstream media and the political leaders were completely divorced in a major american issue that was going to potentially reshape a generation. we're seeing all of these signs of weirdness, strangeness and ridiculousness at odds with the facts and yet people are son only you liesed to this sense of appreciating this madness and madness is what it is. >> there's a term that's being thrown around that basically means government by the worst people and the most incompetent people. kak stock rasy is a term that's popping up. you see this rag tag team between the pence camp and the other wing led by breitbart's stephen bannon. they're openly fighting and even the choices on the table, bolton, giuliani, these are the best choices they can come up
with. poor mitt romney who one would assume they may make him apologize and still not pick him. is there any sanity taking place or any attempt to intervene? >> not so far. you've seen people on capitol hill saying mitt romney would be a good choice. he would be reassuring considering who trump has picked so far. the pattern so far is trump has picked people who are very conservative like jeff sessions and very inexperienced. ben carson, the idea he would run hud is shocking. nikki haley has virtually no foreign policy experience will be the u.n. ambassador. mitt romney would be a very good pick in this lineup but i wonder if the goal is to sort of get mitt romney to publicly apologize and walk back everything he said in that speech he gave blasting trump. i wonder if this is some kind of -- the goal is to sort of humiliate him or what.
like you said, i've never seen the way kellyanne conway is essentially supposed to be an advisor advertising donald trump internally is trashing mitt romney. mike huckabee doing the same thing. if you're mitt romney do you want to take a job in this circumstance? if mitt romney was chosen it would be reassuring to the country. >> you are the republican consultant at the table, what is going on here? >> for full disclosure, i love kellyanne conway. i think she did a tremendous job in managing a campaign that had fallen apart for a brief moment. they won, they did a good job -- >> other than the white nationalism. >> we'll move that to the side. that's a whole other argument. >> we'll move it to later in the show. >> i can understand why kellyanne is so outspoken because anybody that knows mitt romney and we got to know the whole family in south carolina. they're gentlemen, they're
ladies, they're nice people. his speech caught us all by surprise, completely something that's out of his orbit to give a speech against donald trump or anybody. if you know him, something else pushed that button. i don't know whether it was the connection with bush 43 or the bush family. that was a strong connection when he ran for office. to this day i don't know who wrote that speech but it wasn't mitt romney. >> you don't think he's a pick that makes any sense? >> i don't. >> we're going to keep perry and caton and fernand -- no. thank you very much. i'll see you soon. up next, the lone senate seat still undecided. why democrats are making a big mistake, a huge, giant mistake ignoring the upcoming runoff election in louisiana. what are they thinking? more "am joy" after the break. simulation initiated.
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if you're in wisconsin or nearby, please consider signing up to volunteer and to be part of the grassroots mobilization that is required in order to do this recount. this is a recount undertaken by volunteers who will be trained and supported in order to do this. so onward to a voting system that we can count on and where our votes will be counted. >> good morning and welcome back to "am joy". former green party candidate jill stein has already raised nearly $6 million in her campaign for election recounts in wisconsin, pennsylvania and michigan. since the election commission agreed to the recount, the hillary clinton team has agreed to join the effort. but a lawyer for hillary for america cautioned that the clinton team had not recovered any actionable evidence of hacking or outside attempts to alter the voting technology. several democrat are still funneling money to stein.
but there's another key battle that democrats may be ignoring at their own risk. in louisiana there's still a senate race to fight for. since none of the 23 senate candidates in the november 8th ballot won a majority of the vote, the two candidates who earned the most votes will face off on december 10th. that's democratic hopeful foster campbell versus republican state treasurer john kennedy. a campbell victory is the only thing that could relatively balance the senate which currently stands at 46 democrats plus two independents and 51 republicans. but campbell really needs some money for that uphill senate race, perhaps some of the $6 million that jill stein raised. joining me joan walsh, perry bacon junior, michelle bernard, and jonathan capehart. jon, what do you make of the democrats seeming to walk away from and not even really bring up or talk at all about the
louisiana senate race? what's going on? >> one, it could be because it's louisiana, a republican state, and when you showed the graphic there of the standings between kennedy and campbell, campbell is a few points behind so maybe democrats have figured out or decided that this is just one race where they would be throwing good money after bad. >> except, jonathan, john bel edwards, the current governor of louisiana is a democrat. democrats won that special election for the governorship. they were able to win a state-wide race in louisiana. louisiana politics are complicated. in certain circumstances democrats actually do pretty well in special elections. it's one of the few things that they consistently normally do pretty well. walking away from this when he's only a few points behind their candidate, i don't understand why that's not worth a go. >> what was that race in florida
where democrats walked away from patrick murphy i think in his senate race. maybe there's gun shyness involved here. i'm not sure. i do think that maybe the democrats have decided that it is too much of a long shot to try to go for it in this case. but look, i understand that if the democrats take one more seat, that puts them one more seat closer to making life difficult for republicans, but there are enough people there to stop republicans. i understand you would want to have one more person there, but i can understand it from the democrats' hierarchy why they might not want to put money into that race. >> let me play a sound bite of foster campbell. he was on tamron hall's show on tuesday. >> you might have heard it before, there's no wrong way to do the right thing. i'm doing the right thing.
i'm going to vote for what's right in washington wash. i was in the state senate for 27 years. i'm on the public service commission. i've always represent the people's interests. that's the difference between me and john kennedy. >> there are two ways to think about politics. one, you look at the polls, john kennedy is up over foster campbell and you look at it as a daunting prospect. or it's a golden opportunity to register particularly african-american voters and i would guess has some of the lowest black turnout relative to the populations in the united states. they are a boom town in terms of african-americans sitting there untapped. >> i agree with you. we are talking about a nation who elected donald trump for
president. so i would say one thing we should be careful of noting, i think there is probably some underground efforts we don't know about. i suspect if there's a national effort that's going to happen, it may be a little more subtle and we may not know about it in total because the one thing that campbell probably needs is kind of a low turnout rate to be helpful to him. that's how edwards won in 2015. the path to victory has to be a race in which louisiana voters like campbell is not part of the broad democratic party. that's what he's doing now. he's running a populist campaign. you saw him, people are not going to think of him as the same as hillary clinton because he's an older white man. he's running a localized campaign and he needs more money is my understanding.
the key will be for him if he could get the national democrat -- people are getting jill stein money. the individual donors should give money to him instead of jill stein. i don't think he should get the national democratic party to weigh in in an aggressive way because it will probably be counter productive. >> michelle, that is true. and i think foster campbell is not running as a barack obama democrat and the way that democrats won in 2006 was by running people who are particular to their state. you have to relax some of the orthodox and do what makes sense for the party overall. what do you make of this aggressive push to put money into the jill stein effort which is highly unlikely to overturn 27,000 and 30,000 vote margins but really not so much even just in the mental space, the mental real estate of democrats being occupied by this seat? >> i find it fascinating and i keep thinking hthere has to be
strategy behind this that we're just not seeing because i don't think jill stein can get enough votes to turn this around. jill stein might be part of the reason in some states why we didn't see hillary clinton elected, at least on the electoral map across the country. i don't know if it is to get voters engaged. we have seen so many people across the country that voted donald trump and basically became red all over the nation and maybe this is the same sort of grassroots efforts to get people who are upset about the way the election turned out revved up, engaged in issues, whether they're at the state level or at the national level and start building voter lists, donor lists and start looking forward to the mid-term elections and to 2020. >> joan, the people doing that are the green party. jill stein obviously has thought of a strategy -- that's what she's doing. >> i'm very concerned about that. i think this also reflects -- we
can criticize it and i go back and forth but this reflects a despair on the part of democrats nationally who see hillary clinton building up her lead in the popular vote, it's going to be 2.5 million at least, and also see irregularity. some of them may be explained. nate silver has explained some of them but i think people wanted to see someone fight and ask why these margins were so close and what's going on. this is the thing. whether it's russian hacking or some other kind of hacking, it might not have changed the vote but what we're seeing is we do have uncertainty about our system of voting. the president, the white house came out yesterday and said we know there's concern but don't be concerned. i don't really think that reassured anybody. i think we have to face that there's a large number of people -- maybe we should direct our energies -- i didn't give any money by the way. that's not me. but there are people really learning about the electoral
college and how much the coasts are disadvantaged and how much our votes don't count. it's coming out in this particular way. >> jonathan, that is a good point because you did have something highly irregular happen in this election which is that there was massive voter disenfranchiseme disenfranchisement. a list of 7 million people who were sent out to secretaries of state in republican run states and said this person may be a double voter and you might want to strike them off the list. the one thing that could come out of the jill stein recount, you've seen in wisconsin like 5,000 votes for trump disappear because it just so happened that the number of votes in total didn't add up to the same thing as the number of votes when you added trump plus hillary so you did have irregularities and odd things happen but it seemed that jill stein is fixated on russian hacking. i feel like the anxiety is appropriate, but i'm not sure that the message that the stein
camp is putting out really even answers it. >> right. also i think joan hits the nail on the head here, that the effort by jill stein is the release valve i think for a lot of democrats who are still reeling over hillary clinton's defeat who are angry about what happened and who want hillary or democrats to fight the election results. i would also say just in terms of democracy, what's the harm in a recount? if all it does is to make it clear that the results which are initially accepted are the true results and every vote was truly counted and counted again to bring about certainty to the election results, then what's the harm in that? so i think in all of this, everyone gets something out of it. democrats get a fight and if the recount certifies what we found out on election night, then that makes it possible for all of us to look and say, okay, look, we
tried our best, it didn't turn out for the candidate, and now donald trump is certainly president of the united states. >> and fabio as his advisor. >> fabio. >> we're going to have you guys back. hold that thought and bring it back when we come back later. we have to go to a break. up next, what conflict of interest? how donald trump could use the oval office to line his own pockets with billions and billions of dollars. that is next. with the right steps, 80% of recurrent ischemic strokes could be prevented. and i'm doing all i can to help prevent another one. a bayer aspirin regimen is one of those steps in helping prevent another stroke. be sure to talk to your doctor before you begin an aspirin regimen.
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set up some type of trust or whatever, and you don't. and i was actually a little bit surprised. >> that's what donald trump told the "new york times" in response to questions about the ethical conflicts raised by his mixing business with the presidency. but only weeks since he was elected, trump has already blurred that line. there was last week's meeting with his indian business partners who are building an apartment complex and paying trump to brand it with his name. there was the "washington post" report of foreign diplomats who wined and dined at trump's d.c. hotel hoping to impress the american president by throwing business his way. there was ivanka's trump's presence at the meeting with the japan prime minister and then all three of trump's older children serving on his company and serving on his transition team. that's just to name a few. there's a word for governments that use political power for
personal gain, clep tok krasy. how concerned should we be about an american president joining that notorious list. joining me caton dawson, perry bacon jr., and sara kenzior. sara, you are new to our panel so i want to go to you first. americans say they want a businessman to be the president and think he could be a better president but we've never actually had a better less coney situation where the president of the united states was in a position to profit from his office. educate us on what that could mean for the people here and for donald trump. >> i think it's important that americans realize this can happen here, that this is something that has happened in countries all over the world.
trump's slogan may have been america first but it's really america last. who comes first is trump and his family. all the incidents, described of installing his family within the administration, not divorcing his business interest from the government, not disclosing his tax returns. those are all signs of clep tok krasy. it often goes hand in hand with rule in which the person in power can abuse executive laws, can rewrite laws in order to keep that financial benefit flowing. so we are much more vulnerable than we think. our systems of checks and balances of legal procedures may not hold when somebody whose primary goal is personally benefitting himself by stripping down the state to its parts. >> is there any reason to have confidence that a fully republican government, meaning republicans in control of both
houses of congress as well as the supreme court, as well as all the mechanisms of the state would be a check or a balance on that kind of impulse? >> i think it is in their interest to be a check and balance on this impulse. i think this is a nonpartisan iss issue. in the end. everyone in america will be hurt by this, regardless of political party, except for trump and his team of backers whose foreign ties should be investigated, foreign assets should be investigated. so i do think it's in their interest to investigate this as well, even if you are a republican, even if you are in his political party. you should kind of wonder is he working for you, is he working to serve the public, or is he working to serve himself. there's a wealth of evidence out there. there's a long article in the "new york times" just today that details a lot of these nefarious financial transactions and a lot
of information we don't know like his tax returns. i would call for a congressional investigation of all of this, and i'm pleased to see that some republicans have taken the lead on looking into these things and i hope that both sides, the democrats and the republicans continue to do so. >> we have had the congressman from michigan raise concerns about this but the person who runs the house oversight committee is a vigorous trump supporter. there's polling that's out that asked the american public after the election are they concerned. here are a couple of the questions. in handing over his business to his children, does trump go far enough to prevent conflicts of interest? 59% say he's not going far enough, 39% say he's done enough. democrats only 8% say he's done enough. only republicans have confidence in trump on that score. let's go to the next one. this is, do you have a concern that trump would veto a law that would be good for the country because it would hurt his
business interest? 53% of americans are concerned, 46% not concerned. could this become a real live issue at last after this election? >> about 46% of americans voted for donald trump so there's the not concerned number right there. right now we're seeing rand paul, we're seeing a few republicans honestly who don't have a lot of influence. we're not seeing a lot of committee chairs, a lot of republicans. we're not seeing mitch mcconnell, we're not seeing paul ryan. right now authoritarianism should be a nonpartisan issue but right now they are partisan issues because republicans are very invested in this stage in defending donald trump. the other thing to note is if you look at the "new york times" interview, donald trump on climate change, on torture, on policy, i don't really know what he was saying. he was a little bit all over the place. on the idea that he can run his
business as he chooses to and conflicts of interest laws that apply to him, he was very definitive. he had read the law, knew the law and was arguing strongly, i can do as i please, my kids can do as i please. it's very worrisome to see early on trump is taking a very strong line on this and republicans in congress are saying almost nothing about it. >> caton, you saw the squeamishness around the issues of donald trump's lewd behavior. you saw visible cringing. here you see kind of nothing, other than justin amosh and rand paul. why do you suppose it's not a bigger issue and should republicans be the ones to step forward? >> there are a lot of things in a very serious nature of what's getting ready to happen. donald trump has not taken the oath of office and george bush 43 told us how his world would change. donald trump's world and demeanor will change when he takes the oath of office and
he's the president of the united states. i promise you that. i haven't seen a lot of concern about his business interest because he came out on day one and said i'm really rich and successful. donald trump's wealth probably is not going to increase, in my opinion, because he's very wealthy and his assets, when you look at his assets overseas and talk about the war on terror, what's going to happen. we're going to go from soft targets to hard targets. >> you mean things with his name on it? >> the twin towers in istanbul is a good one. i'm being pragmatic about the threat that donald trump and his family and his businesses are getting ready to have once he becomes president of the united states. i understand why they wanted to know some of the intelligence, why they needed to make some plans. i have all confidence that donald trump is going to be plenty busy being president of the united states and not have the opportunities to run any of that and plus he doesn't need anymore money. >> his children certain would like to have more money. they've made very clear that they want more investments in russia, more hotels, they want
to build hotels in mumbai. the children and trump have shown that they love to make more money, so why would should children stop attempting to sell his name just because he's in the white house. he said to the "new york times" we're going to keep doing this. >> he has a brand and i think there's a lot of work and expense for the children to protect that brand. >> sara, before we go, what about that aspect, the fact that all of these hotels in mumbai, in istanbul, places around the country that are not as secure now become a security risk because they've got the trump name on them? >> yeah, i think that's important that that could be a security risk. it's something that both is troublesome in terms of being targeted but also something that god forbid there is an attack of some kind can easily be manipulated. other scholars in other regimes
have noted that if they should be attacked that's the thing that could call into lquestion executive law. a trump property becomes by default an attack on the united states and i think it's important to keep those things separate and not allow the abuse of executive power conjoined with business arrangements to allow us to pass laws that limit civil liberties in the future that can have consequences far beyond what happens immediately during a trump administration. >> sobering stuff. we're going to have you guys back. thank you all. next, 8 years after jeremiah right, is steve bannon getting a pass? we'll compare and contrast when we come back. simulation initiated. ♪
delivered by reverend jeremiah wright. abc news publicized experts in which wright preached the gospel about american injustice, words that were familiar to christian followers that were amplified by breathless media coverage and interpreted by others as frightening and inflammatory rhetoric. for that moment, jeremiah wright threatened to overshadow his former parishioners candidacy. "he was a closet racist who neither loved america nor write people." the loom is threat was so great is that obama was forced to
disavow wright. barack obama gave a searing speech of race and racism in america. >> the fact that so many people are surprised to hear that anger in some of reverend wright's sermons simply reminds us of the old truism that the most segregated hour of american life occurs on sunday morning. that anger is not always productive but the anger is real. it is powerful. to simply wish it away, to condemn it without understanding its roots only serves to widen the kassism of misunderstanding. >> the closest advisor to the next president of the united states has created a platform for the hateful ideology of white nationalists and is accused of making bigoted
comments. thousands of lawyers signed a letter this week opposing bannon's appointment, citing what they call contempt for our long-standing governmental institutions. trump shows no signs of abandoning bannon. why is steve bannon given a pass when jeremiah wright was kicked to the curb for less. time to call the so-called alt-right what it really is when we come back. [ sneezes ]
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the first clan emerged in the post reconstruction south, by the end of the 19th century some had begun to move into more respectable circles by using science and darwinism to explain their views. those ideas that opponents from across the country concerned with influxes of immigrants from southern and eastern europe. the so-called alt-right is no different. disguising themselves with academic sounding think tanks like the center for immigration studies and the national policy institute which packed into d.c. last week only to break out in nazi salutes, forcing the restaurant to issue a statement of apology for hosting them. don don't be fooled. it's still plain old racism. john tanten advocates the idea
that nonwhite immigrants will be less intelligent than nonwhite immigrants. even the term alt-right is a dodge. spencer, the avowed white supremacist who advocates for whites only earth know state inside the united states and peaceful ethnic cleansing and whose organization through that nazi party came up with the term alt-right. stephen bannon, now trump's senior advisor bragged to mother jones that he made breitbart the home of the alt-right. from now on, let's drop the nicety, shall we, and call them what they are. just your garden variety white nationalist, no different from the earlier kind. dean, i woke up this morning to tweets about a column in the boston globe by matt visor. this is the way that matt visor tweeted out his own column which sends up stephen bannon, a biography of stephen bannon.
at harvard, steve bannon was fit, trim, good looking and reminded some classmates of robert redford. that is the way that matt visor of the boston globe promoted his own story about stephen bannon. what is going on here if we are taking people who are advocating white nationalism and turning them into robert redford? >> i agree with you and why are we being politically correct with a group that hates political correctness? these guys are not just white nationalists, they're racists, anti-semit anti-semites. the one thing in this conversation that's upsetting to me and i wrote about it in the handcuffi g "huffington post," we have not talked about breitbart under bannon has become the home for anti-muslim bigotry, writing things like ban all muslims, and not one article or two. over the years he's given them
extensive places to legitimize hate. now steve bannon in the house is a wakeup call. he's going to move his hate of muslims and jews. we can never going to let that happen. we must continue to fight this. >> i said earlier that you wrote about something else but you did write about this weird dichotomy between the way the media clutched its collective pearls as if they had never heard a black preacher in their entire lives when you had jeremiah wright but now you have stephen bannon who let's look at a couple of the headlines. what dean talked about, it is a cesspool of anti-muslim bigotry, a cesspool of anti-semitic bigotry. when they talked about donald
trump going back on his birtherism, they used a picture of harambe. when they talked about bill crystal, they called him a republican spoiler, renegade jew. this has been a cesspool of hate. how is it that there is no pearl clutching by the media? >> for several reasons. one, victory seems to cleanse a lot of sins. two, there is by custom a bit of a honeymooning grace period given to the president-elect and his selections of people in his administration. that's why you have a rather disturbingly glowing description of steve bannon by matt visor. what we have here, you've got jeremiah wright there on the screen. the pearl clutching that took place, as you called it rightly,
pretty much almost upended barack obama's campaign for the presidency because of his pastor gave a sermon several years earlier where he wasn't even president and yet he had to atone for that. meanwhile, a guy who gives a platform to white supremacy and then goes and joins the presidential campaign of donald trump as its chairman and will soon be a few steps away from the oval office and in the ear of the president of the united states, to me it's mind boggling that there hasn't been the same amount if not more pearl clutching going on. because what we have here is someone who is completely anti-thet cal to who we are as a country and who we are as a people or at least i thought, at least i was taught. and i think that's one of the reasons why myself, dean, you, a whole lot, millions of other americans are simply horrified that this man is so close to power. i also say that that then
requires all of us who are concerned about this person and his influence that we remain vigilant and to make sure that he is as faithful to the constitution as he should be and as we should demand he be as he then soon come january 20th president trump looks out for all of our interests. we should be concerned and horrified that this person who has not shown any concern about all americans is now going to have the fate of all americans in his hands. >> michelle, even using the t m alt-right which i used early on because this is their nickname and i would have conservatives on panels say i've never heard of steve bannon and i've never heard of the alt-right. this is a nickname for thinly disguised naziism and racism. i want to read a letter from one
white nationalist to another. richard sponsor made up the term alt-right. keep that in your mind. another white nationalist named willi william johnson writes, dear richard, knock it off on the nazi salutes. any of your positive discussions on the decline of western civilation is obscured. the term alt-right has given us a startover moniker on which we can build a solid, positive reputation. if you don't reign in the negative national associate's leftist imagery we will be viewed as that person driving the ford galaxy driving with his right turn signal on while driving left. he goes on to complain that the nazi salutes are cutting into william johnson's tv bookings and that if richard spencer doesn't stop doing nazi salutes they won't be able to get booked
on television. what is going on here, michelle? >> i am so saddened. earlier today i was talking to jonathan earlier in the green room and somebody referred to everything that we are witnessing right now as the american horror story and it really is. the term alt-right is a euphemism for open bigotry of every sort imaginable. there was a time when people would keep these thoughts to themselves and the thing that is so frightening since the election of now president-elect donald trump is that we are seeing americans all over the country and people all over the world normalizing hatred, bigotry, racism, anti-semitism, religious freedom people are completely against it and we don't bat an eye. i saw a headline in the guardian that said something -- i'm paraphrasing but something akin
to when do we call a nazi a nazi. you call a nazi a nazi when they self-identify as a nazi. you don't call them a member
of the alt-right. you call an anti-semite an anti-semite. there was a fascinating article in the "huffington post" by luke o'brian about his sort of spending time at the center of the alt-right during the election period, and he warnings us that there are sentiments of these quote unquote keyboard race warriors are going to be with us for a very long time. we see areas in northern virginia and i'll give you a couple of names where we see a move to name a body of water in northern virginia, it was once named n lake and now the moniker it's been given is lost coon lake. some of the websites that are online now, the daily stormer, the traditionalist warrior party, if you go on and take a look at these websites and look
at the traffic and the things that they write about, many americans are concerned about the use of the internet for purposes of terrorism outside of the united states, these people are breeding terrorism within the borders of our country. >> the one piece of good news is mother jones found that their overall traffic is not up. they're the same size. they just have an entry into the white house. >> that's what's changed. we've always had racists in this country and white nationalists. they've kind of been under rocks and now they've come out from under their rocks. dean and i daily try to figure out a silver lining to this nightmare. this might be the silver lining. jonathan says this is not the country we are. jonathan, yes, it is. that's the bad news. we've got to fight it more openly. >> we're
going to come back. hold your thoughts. my guests are sticking around for a few hours this morning. intrepid researchers looking for trump tower on google maps got this instead.
they replaced trump tower with dump tower. we here at "am joy" cannot resist giving a nod to excellent trolling. later, is the trump campaign worried about the recount? they sure are, he's tweeting a lot about it. more "am joy". l is for loving the seasonal cuisine. a is for access to everything, including the aisle. r is for reclining in tailor-made bedding. and i, must be dreaming. s... so long, jet lag. polaris, from united. 80% of recurrent ischemic, strokes could be prevented. and i'm doing all i can to help prevent another one. a bayer aspirin regimen is one of those steps in helping prevent another stroke. be sure to talk to your doctor before you begin an aspirin regimen.
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generosity is its oyou can handle being a mom for half an hour. i'm in all the way. is that understood? i don't know what she's up to, but it's not good. can't the world be my noodles and butter? get your mind out of the gutter. mornings are for coffee and contemplation. that was a really profound observation. you got a mean case of the detox blues. don't start a war you know you're going to lose. finally you can now find all of netflix in the same place as all your other entertainment. on xfinity x1. what will be the big headline next week? michelle, what's the big headline? >> americans tried and true have decided to take the economic boycotts to the internet. we have seen three big movements over the weekend. blackout black friday. redistribute the pain. and grab your wallet. people can take a look at them
on the internet but they are economic boycotts. >> a lot of momentum for that. jonathan? >> we're going to talk about the recounts in wisconsin and possibly two other states. and while they're there astarte jill stein, we will talk about -- the headlines will be about the impact they have or might not have on hillary clinton's standing. >> i hope that hillary clinton is able to zero in on the voter suppression aspect and knocking people off voter rolls. we shall see. what's the big headline? >> donald trump is going to lose access to his twitter account again. they have to take it away. i don't know if it's kelly and or bannon -- i think they have to come up with a solution. maybe they will hack twitter. they will bring it down so he can't tweet. eight tweets this morning. he wakes up and gets on his phone and tweets. i do that but i'm a cable talk show host.
this is insanity. what's the big headline? >> trump will try to make up everything for the muslim community and pick a muslim for the head of -- >> that's not going to happen. >> just to watch breitbart explo explode. >> it would incinerate. >> he will appoint someone as bad or not worse for the administration. maybe giuliani for the head. he picked an education person. maybe supreme court payback, david duke. he owes these guys. >> we haven't talked about the picks. betty devos, doesn't believe in public schools. they have been looking to privatize for a long time. we heard jerry falwell junior was initially offered the secretary of education job, which might be even scarier that he would be secretary of education. these picks are not getting better. my picks for headlines of the week, i wrote a piece for "the daily beast." thank you because it did trend
this morning. talking about the normalization of trump. unfortunately, a lot of the headlines you are going to see are going to be things like we saw in the boston globe where we glamorize trumpism, normalize it. more steve bannon profiles about what he looks like or what he looked like in college. i worry you will see more normization despite the fact that so many americans -- two million more voted for hillary clinton. i will do one more. there will be a huge moral mondays protest that is taking place tomorrow in the capital of raleigh, north carolina, the north carolina state capital. the naacp and the forward together movement, they are gathering for no fear, no hate, no stealing our vote at 5:00 p.m. tomorrow. i hope that the media, my friends in the media will cover it. this is the important movement of our lifetime as people fighting for civil rights. it's civil rights. it's equality for everyone. access to the ballot box for everyone. access to good health care, decent schools. those are fundamental american
things everybody can agree with. hopefully, we will see action and coverage of it. i appreciate you being here. we have one more minute. do we have one more minute? let me give you on a scale of one to ten, zero never going to happen, ten dead certainty, will donald trump pick anyone next week that democrats support? let's start with michelle. >> the question is, that's never going to happen. >> that's a zero. >> that's my answer, zero. >> jonathan? >> i would say three. donald trump loves the idea of messing with people. >> he is needy. joe lieberman doesn't count. he will support whatever. >> i would say one. not nothing but close. >> 7.5. >> why do you -- democrats -- >> he wants to pick one person that the democrats are going to like. look, i gave you someone and you still rebelled against that person. >> i think it's about need.
it's about his bottomless need for affection and love. he will try. i don't know if it will work. democrats, we will see if they have any fight in them. thank you guys. that's our show for tonight. next week, we will have a special boot camp for democrats. a boot camp for democrats, because it's time for democrats to buck up, stop sulking and fight back. alex witt has more on the recount and more reaction on the twitter. is it a sign he is worried? alex witt at the top of the hour. to help prevent another one. a bayer aspirin regimen is one of those steps in helping prevent another stroke. be sure to talk to your doctor before you begin an aspirin regimen. the full value of your totaled new car. the guy says, "you picked the wrong insurance plan." no, i picked the wrong insurance company. with new car replacement™, we'll replace the full value of your car plus depreciation. liberty mutual insurance.