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tv   Hardball With Chris Matthews  MSNBC  November 29, 2016 4:00pm-5:01pm PST

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and only gaviscon helps keep acid down for hours. for fast-acting, long-lasting relief, try doctor-recommended gaviscon. thanks for watching. we'll see you tomorrow. and for now, we say sayonara. "hardball" starts now. tweet to tweet. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. throughout the campaign, whenever donald trump was down, he knew he could rally his base by saying or tweeting something proceed vvocativ provocative, something many would cause crazy. the campaign is over, but president-elect donald trump seems to be following the same
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pattern. he's attacked the media, going after protesters and said millions illegally voted. today he wrote nobody should be allowed to burn the american flag. if they do, there must be consequences, perhaps loss of citizen ship or a year in dale. well, trump seemed to be responding to the story about military veterans protesting a flag being burnt on the campus of hachl shire chenlg. the supreme court has twice ruled it's protected by the first amendment. in fact skail said if it were up to me, i will put in jail every sandal wearing scruffy bearded weirdo who burns the american flag, but i am not king. good for him. some top republicans also spoke out today. here is republican congressman kevin mccarthy and mitch
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mcconnell. >> where i come from, you honor the flag. i'd be ofafraid for their own safety, but we appreciate the first amendment. in s. >> so you don't like it but you believe it's protected under the first amendment? >> that's what the supreme court has upseld. >> the supreme court has held that that activity is a protected first amendment right. a form of unpleasant speech and in this country we have a long tradition of respecting unpleasant speech. i happen to support the supreme court's decision on that matter. >> so what is trump up to here? barney frank and michael steele and eli stokels. congressman franks, great to have you on. tell me, what do you think about this morning glory of trump's this morning? >> well, it's a diversionary tactic.
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we know he's a very clever politician. he has two serious problems he's addressing. because you also have this ridiculous claim without any evidence whatsoever and contrary to what everyone knows that millions of people voted against him. so here he has two problems. first of all, he takes office as president who did worse in the popular vote. this is a man who wants to talk about his mandate to do all these great things, but majority of the american people voted depends him. by millions. so he's trying to discredit that by this phony argument. the other rob he has ether prob made about a lot of promises he won't be able to keep. he won't be able to build a wall. some of what he's promised do is contrary to what he wants do. you want to help the little guy, you want to help stand up to big business but you don't abolish the consumer protection financial board and you don't give tax breaks to very wealthy people. so what you have here, he has to find some way to take attention away from the fact that he is a
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minority president, almost an accidental president, who is advocating in fact a lot of things that go against what he said. so that is why this notion that flag burning is a serious american problem, the only way to explain it is that this is a man who needs to -- he understands he has to begin to change the subject from his inability i believe to deliver on his promises. >> let me ask you about the first question. does anybody believe that you can under any constitution reading of the constitution, any supreme court we can imagine having, and having a statute agreed to by the court that you can be punished for flag burning? >> no. >> i'm with michael steele now. sorry. >> by any reading and interpretation by the court, i don't see that whether you're talking about language that they have drawn -- >> hillary supported by the way a year on this, but i think that was a dodge to avoid having to come out for a constitutional amendment which democrats often do. >> it is an ugly form of speech, but it's free speech.
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it is protected speech. it is not cordoned off as some other speech has like you can't go into a theater and yell fire, that has potential to harm other individuals. this is a singular act by an individual broke is making a protest and the court protects it.broke is making a protest and the court protects it. so i think the congress may be credits donald trump with too much. i don't think there a grand plan to -- i think he got up and he saw this story about the burning of the flag on the college campus and it annoyed him and he just tweeted out anyone who does that, by god, sththey should go jail. i don't think there is any grand thinking behind this, this is just donald trump responding to something he saw advice early and that will be the opening -- >> eli, let's understand our american culture.early and that will be the opening -- >> eli, let's understand our american culture. in wasn't somebody at west point doing this, this was hampshire college, a bit to the left and proud of it.wasn't somebody at doing this, this was hampshire college, a bit to the left and proud of it.
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it wasn't considered off beat or even out of line in a place like that. it was a righteous statement of indignation. and people have a right do that. >> and it may be a compulsive reaction by trump to just see that on fox newsdo that. >> and it may be a compulsive reaction by trump to just see that on fox news which is playing that story because it will really up conservatives who don't like to see that. but it's also muscle memory. he's done this so many times and he understands that when he goes out here and takes the side -- i'm no constitutional expert, but it's not just the first amendment. it's the 14th amendment. you can't strip people of their citizenship. >> so we agree -- >> saying this is over the line. >> but he's distancing himself. >> he's driving that wedge. he's with his supporters. he's saying i'm with you and he manages to get the mainstream media and the establishment. we saw mitch mcconnell somehow seeming like they are defending flag burning when they are actually defending the constitution. >> i think we can all agree that you can't outlaw flag burning
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and you can't strip someone of their citizenship under the 14th amendment. you're born here, you say here. anyway, congressman frank, i have to ask you about something your former colleague newt gingrich said the other day. he said what trump does, if the media will chase a rabbit, i'll pick the rabbit. and i'll come up with something, he'll chase it. this is an sx annual spell perhaps. your thoughts. >> absolutely. i disagree that he just got up in the more than and said it. let's not under estimate this man's screwed accepts. he has a great abilitythan and . let's not under estimate this man's screwed accepts. he has a great ability to find out what will anger people. he made the preposterous claim that there was voter fraud. he understands that when he proposes a controversial thing, the fact is that he is by far the most minority president we've ever had. so this is i think part of a calculated strategy.
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i don't think-o -- it is interesting that as you noted, scalia wrote the opinion and was strongly on the other side of this and he cited scalia as his favorite judge. i think there was a pronunciation problem. scalia was actually the leading advocate of fag burning, not flag burning. and i think that's where he got himself confused. >> okay. let's mf of-that's not funny. anyway, let me go to this thing here about trump and his ability to keep contact with his people. i have a theory that he gets up every morning with flop sweat and congressman frank may break with it, he feels he's lost his audience overnight and he has to reconnect with them.break with it, he feels he's lost his audience overnight and he has to reconnect with them. even when he was doing terribly, he always went past the teleprompter and said no, i want in audience to react right now. i want to know they're there. he has to constantly check to see if he can connect with those people. and he does it every day. >> he has a need for that sort
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of gratification. you see him retweeting supporters. he's bashing members of media by name just by retweeting things that his supporters are sending. >> let me go to michael on this. when you say -- i know people have sometimes legitimate concern about illegal immigration. and work permits make perfect accepts everywhere el sense everywhere else. but the idea that 3 million people got the ability to get in the voting booths and somehow they all got the license from local political democrats to vote and nobody noticed it? nobody noticed several hundred thousand mexicans who weren't americans voting in new hampshire? i mean why would his right wing most alt-right people believe this nonsense? >> you know how the shifty
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democrats are. they work the angles. this goes back to what eli was saying about how donald trump kind of works the angles. and he works the angles with his base all the time. this is a continuation of a narrative that says you're sitting there thinking logically why are you having this fights. what it does, it reinforces the arguments he wants to make downstream. to barney's point, that is the shrewdness of what he does. he provides the rabbit, but i also digs the holes. >> the metaphor is getting too complete. congressman, you can imagine i assume there is some illegal voting everywhere. probably somebody shows up, maybe somebody who wants to be an american and isn't documented who really wants to vote votes on occasion. i don't know. but the idea of 3 million people, the hillary surplus if you will over him? >> it's nonsense. everybody who looked at this seriously understands these
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sorts of things. and by the way there wasn't a pattern in which that would have plenty more votes not just for hillary clinton, but senate candidates, others who didn't do as well. but this is not -- you mentioned flop sweat. first of all, this man with an enormous ego obviously is unhappy that he has gotten a smaller percentage of the two party popular vote than anybody's ever been president. he's behind her by 2.5 million votes. that clearly is a problem for him. and secondly when you talk about flop sweat, he has already begun to back down on expelling 13 million people, so building the wall, on doing waterboarding. i have seen more -- he could have powered a state with the back pedaling. so this is not accidental. he is aware that he's not going to be able to give the people many of the ones who voted for him what they most wanted which
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is the economic situation, the war on immigrants, the wall. and this is a beginning of his effort to divert attention. he will blame i wimmigrants for illegal voting instead of expelling all of them. i think it will get heard because he will be the president. he will have a republican house and republican senate. and he will continue to look for scapegoats, but it will be hard when you're in total control of the government to explain your failures. >> when the trash doesn't get collected on thursday, you can't blame obama anymore, you have to blame the guy in charge. that is the tricky part. >> obama was pretty good at it for a while, so we'll see. >> i'll blame him too for that stupid war. anyway, thank you. congressman frank, good to have you on sir. coming up, trump's hunt for secretary of state,'s running it like a special episode of the apprentice oig. and the five men each bring plus and minuses to the board room
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table. and by the way he's having dinner with mitt romney tonight. dinner with andre. anyway, russia's role in the 2016 campaign, members of congress on both sides of the aisle oig are calling for an investigation into what russia was up to and the impact it made have may have had on the presidential race. and the "hardball" round table is here to tell us three things, about the trump transition that i don't know. finally, let me finish with my trump watch for this tuesday night three weeks after the election. and this is "hardball," the place for politics. my hygienist said the most random thing. she said i should think of my teeth like an apple. it could be great on the outside not so great on the inside. her advice? use a toothpaste and mouthwash that strengthens both. go pro with crest pro-health advanced. it's uniquely formulated with activestrength technology to strengthen teeth inside and is better at strengthening the outside than colgate total. crest toothpaste and mouthwash makes my whole mouth feel amazing. advance to healthier gums and stronger teeth from day one.
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welcome back. donald trump continues to deliberate over his choice for secretary of state and tonight he's having dinner with mitt romney who is viewed as a top contender alongside rudy giuliani. trump also met with senator bob corker and david petraeus yesterday. while the candidates each have their own draw backs, there is continued backlash against trump allies among them rather against mitt romney . and here's what newt gingrich had to say last night. >> it would be a huge mistake to betray that base on behalf of somebody who this is not a team of rivals. there was nobody in lincoln's cabinet who was a bitter opponent through the general election. so this is a totally phony comparison. and i think it will be a significant mistake. >> however as the "washington
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post" reports, trump is said to be intrigued by the notion of reconciling one of his fiercest republican antagonists. even as giuliani campaign openly for the job. i'm joined by katie packer as well as ken vogel. first of all, everybody is sort of amazed -- a bit surprised that mitt romney wants to be secretary of state for donald trump. i know it's representing the united states, but you're the personal envoy to the president. he trashed him during the campaign and now he wants to be his to be cabinet official. explain. >> i don't know that we know that that is what mitt romney wants. mitt romney is meeting with the president-elect. i think it's somebody that he feels he owes respect to because of the office and in a is the way that mitt romney is wired. and i think that he would sit down and he would have these conversations. mitt romney obviously in my mind would be very good at handling foreign policy. i thought he would make a great president. you can't be a great president if you're not qualified to be be secretary of state.
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>> does he respect donald trump? >> i don't know that he does. >> isn't that a prerequisite? >> but i think it's interesting that i think donald trump is somebody that needs people's approval. and this was a guy in a castigated him very aggressively in the primary. and to have his approval now would be a big accomplishment for donald trump and i think that matters to him. >> one of the problems will be getting rid of the body, if you will. what does he do with rudy giuliani if he doesn't give hip t him the job. he's done a lot of trash talk in favor of helping trump. when trump was in trouble, mitt romney was dumping all over him. >> my sources tell him that rooud rudy could be up for the office of national intelligence, sort of plays into some of his strengths as a tough minded former prosecutor. and maybe also would have the
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advantage of not having like such marsh scrutiny during a confirmation hearing. >> do you really think he will get a softer ride for a lefter job? he may get higher for a lesser job. >> potentially. and there is a lot of fodder out there. >> would you take that job and give up your fortune you're making in the private sector? >> he has clearly shown he wants to be part of the administration. so i think probably he would take what was offered. and it's looking like it's almost certainly not going to be secretary of state. >> i think he said take it as an insult. >> when you hear the worditity proceed maes, i'm not sure rudy giuliani's picture pops up. >> let's talk about petraeus. i think petraeus is being looked at. i think he brings the grit of giuliani but also the world war reputation of a warrior. >> and he has unquestioned
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foreign policy experience. there is obviously the optics issue there that what he got in trouble for, mishandling of classified information, something that donald trump criticized hillary clinton for. >> do you think if he shows up overseas a beautiful woman meets him at the airport, nice to meet you, can we have dinner? >> strong tactic. >> i understand you're interested this journalism. anyway, so let's talk about these other appointments. the "post" also reports that trump is looking for assurances that romney could be trusted to defend and promote trump's markedly different world view around the globe. for one, trump's accommodating stance toward russia is at odds of that of romney. here he was, mitt. >> russia i indicated is a geopolitical foe. i have clear eyes on this. i'm not going wear rose colored glasses when it comes to russia or mr. putin. >> laura ingraham today raised romney's differences toward
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russia as a concern for trump and his backers. here she is. >> what does romney want to do with russia, are we going to invade lithuania if russia goes into lithuania, are we prepared to do that? we should talk about that. because i think in a that would probably surprise a lot of republican voters who supported donald trump.that would probably surprise a lot of republican voters who supported donald trump. >> i get the feeling your guy romney is not the most original thinker. i think he has inherited the mechbtality of the cold war. russia is bad, we're good, keep it simple. russians are the bad guys, still kgb. and how will he go along with a guy that believes our bitter national partner will be vladimir putin? how does he go along with a 180 philosophy from his own? >> i remain very skeptical that this job will be offered or that he will accept this job. i am very skeptical that that
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will happen. that said, i do think that mitt romney is somebody that seeks out a lot of expert opinion. he's very well read. very well studied on these issues. and so i think that this notion that he's just a. adopted a foreign policy from ronald reagan isn't quite on the mark. >> and because on russia,. adop foreign policy from ronald reagan isn't quite on the mark. >> and because on russia, adopt foreign policy from ronald reagan isn't quite on the mark. >> and because on russia,adopten policy from ronald reagan isn't quite on the mark. >> and because on russia, which is the conflict that we see most to the extent that there are any, it's important to point out, first of all, romney was a little bit outside of the main stream of the foreign policy community when he said. there were people talking about about the rye seset with russia. and what he just said is a lot closer to the republican p foreign policy establishment as well as just the foreign policy community generally than trump is. >> let me tell you why i like trump's foreign policy. i think he's trying to avoid us getting in the middle east mess any deeper than we are and hoping we can leverage some
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relations with russia to get assad to move out of the throne somehow. some kind of accommodation where we say we'll give you three, four years so the rest of the country gets to have its own sunni form of government. and the neocons say we'll just fight over there. no, that won't work. the regime change thing has made it worse. so i'm against the stuff that got us into iraq, syria, libya. i think we have to go with a new approach that leverages international guy he oae owe po deals whereas sad oig is willing to take a smaller piece of the country and he said the war. >> no matter who the secretary of state is, that won't be the person that is developing the foreign policy. the job of the secretary of state is to advocate the president's foreign policy. and i think that is something that donald trump needs to flush out a bit. >> i think that is one part of his policy i could get into.flu
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out a bit. >> i think that is one part of his policy i could get into. we have to stop the killing. katie, ken, happy holidays. coming up, one thing democrats and republicans are beginning to agree on is that they need to investigate what role russia did play in our own 2016 race here. the latest on that coming up next. it this is "hardball."
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breaking news to report and hallie jackson in new york. >> we have just now learned that governor mitt romney has sat down for his dinner, his second time face-to-face here with president-elect donald trump here in mants. t manhattan. we're told with ann romney and reince priebus dining in a restaurant just off central park. this is interesting given there is a lot of discussion within the transition team and close it that mitt romney is being considered for the spposition o secretary of state, locked in the battle with rudy giuliani. no word yet on timing for when we might see a state department pick from donald trump. but tonight we are learning about a couple of other picks from the president-elect specifically when it comes to his economic team. so nbc news can report based on information from a top transition source that donald trump is expecting to name
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steven mnuchin as his pick for treasury secretary as early possibly as tomorrow. remember, mnuchin is a former gold man sax partngoldman sachs worked with him during his campaign. he had been the leading contender for days. we're also learning that as early as tomorrow, the president-elect is expected to make wilbur ross as his commerce secretary. again, not particularly surprising. ross had been a name that had been tossed around in business circles for a while. just today, he was at trump tower leaving by the way in a camouflaged make america great again the hat and a big smile on his face. again, we're expecting those announcements as donald trump fills out husbais cabinet maybe early as tomorrow. more as we get it. now back to hardba"hardball." during the election, then candidate donald trump famously promised to improve ties with
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russia. let's watch. >> i said why wouldn't we want and wouldn't it be nice if we could at the tiget along with r. they say donald trump loves putin. i don't love, i don't hate. we'll see how it works. we'll see. i think i'd get along very well with vladimir putin. if we could get russia to help us get rid of isis, if we could actually be friendly with russia, wouldn't that be a good thing? is that so bad? >> during the campaign, american security agencies suspected russia and vladimir putin himself of orchestrating a breathtaking cyberattack into undermining u.s. democracy. in october, the u.s. formally accused the kremlin of directing hacks of the democratic national committee and last friday, the "washington post" reported that
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russia helped spread fake news in an effort to damage democratic candidate hillary clinton. specifically russia's propaganda arm falsely alleged clinton was taking a parkinson's drug. the kremlin's propaganda machine also pusheded a fake story that people were paid to protest at trump rallies. some of these stories were read more than 8 million times. we're joined by malcolm nance and author of the plat for hack america. give us a sense, we know about the hacking of the dnc material and john podesta's server and the democratic world embarrassed some people. the donna brazile, people like that get into trouble over that. so we know that part. tell us about the other part of their mischief making here, this fake news, this attempt to create propaganda that gets in to the hearts and minds of voters here. >> well, it's been very, very
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well documented over the last three to four months in a russia has and we've always known this because as you said amoun littl earlier, people running around chasing the kgb, they have not changed their propaganda and intelligence operations machinery. and they applied every aspect of that against this u.s. election including highly detailed propaganda organizations and using their state organ "sputnik" russia today and paid troll who operated the "new york times" identified them operating out of st. petersburg, the trolls who created thousands of pro trump organizations and twitter feeds and facebook feeds and spread propaganda on a massive scale. >> have there ever been examples where they penetrated into the mainstream press here, have they gotten in to major quality
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newspapers, have they broken into our system -- i know the right doesn't, but i trust -- have they ever broken through the real journalism here? >> well, i personally can't attest to them breaking in to the mainstream media. but what i can attest to is that they broke through the entirety of the alternative media world that guided all of the trump campaign, tweets coming from donald trump and twrooeets throughout the constellation of pro trump organizations. i myself was attacked by pro trump trolls and featured in "sputnik" once it came out that we had identified their intelligence operation. >> what do you think their primary goal if they have one, was to get trump elected or t y diminish the worldwide respect for our democracy? >> i would like to think that an organization of the fsb's magnitude led by a former director of -- former kgb
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officer and director of the fsb would only want to create mischief and mayhem in the electoral system. but the process was so deliberate, an operation like this would have taken hundreds of operators who would have had to have watched carefully the machinery of the united states on a minute to minute basis with regards to hacking and leaking the information in the way that they did. do that, that means that they were -- and offer yulsly they only favored one candidate and that candidate was elected. >> and clearly going after the democratic national committee was not addressed to the republican national committee at all. >> no, not at all. as a matter of fact, the only hacks that occurred as we understand it was lindsay graham, opponent against russia and the ukraine, john mccain and colin powell. colin powell who would have been the most noteworthy of the
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conservatives who would have endorsed hillary clinton. and they took him out very early by mid september. so this was watergate 2.0, only they got away with everything. >> i love your reporting. thank you so much, malcolm. it's fabulous having you on. we're now joined by senator chris murphy, fsenate foreign relations committee. we like to have you here. what can the senate do in a bipartisan fashion to really do a fulbright kind of investigation, really bring to light what the russians attempted do, what they got away with, and the consequences of their nasty or mischievous work here in. >> two things. one, we can have a bipartisan investigation and we can do it right now. there is no reason to wait until trump is inaugurated. we can begin to collect the information right now and put it on the record to have open
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hearings, talking about what the russians did to try influence this election. maybe they didn't break into the mainstream immediamedia, but mog voters get their information from facebook and they clearly penetrated that space. if they get away with it, without any investigation from congress, then what we're seeing is just the tip of the iceberg. we know that the russians were trying to penetrate voter files. and that is the precursor to actually manipulating election day results. that is the next step for the russians. the second step snow that at the snow that at the end of that investigation is sanctions. and would he hae've sapgseds ru ukraine, why not here. >> how could they manipulate the vote count? >> so they can go into the voter files, they can go in and compromise voter files. >> tell me now works.
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how does mr. jones show up in philly or connecticut and vote somehow that doesn't exist. how do any create a number of new votes that aren't there legally? >> in many states voter files are online. but the elect resuion results a not. what would happen if democrats showed up to the polls and found out that their names had been erased from the vote are files and republicans' had not. there are clearly ways that you can manipulate voter files without manipulating the machines themselves. and why were they trying to penetrate the voter files if it wasn't to try it influen to inf election in favor of trump? >> i'll promise you this, if you do this investigation on the level of fulbright and frank did in the old day, you will get a lot of attention. this may be the first time they really showed their face in this country in terms of interfering with our democracy, something they don't have by the way. i'd like to make sure we stop them at the wall right now. thank you, senator murphy.
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up next, "hardball" round table will be here as trump takes to twitter of course to skewer his critics and throw red meat to his base. they have to be fed. is this a sign of how they will govern? you're watching "hardball," the place for politics. my business was built with passion... but i keep it growing by making every dollar count. that's why i have the spark cash card from capital one. with it, i earn unlimited 2% cash back on all of my purchasing. and that unlimited 2% cash back from spark means thousands of dollars each year going back into my business... which adds fuel to my bottom line. what's in your wallet? why pause a spontaneous moment? cialis for daily use treats ed and the urinary symptoms of bph. tell your doctor about your medicines, and ask if your heart is healthy enough for sex. do not take cialis if you take nitrates for chest pain, or adempas® for pulmonary hypertension, as this may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure.
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he is a cross between andrew jackson disruptiveness and theodore roosevelt's constant energy and a little perform t bar number salesmanship thrown in. the fact is donald trump was very successfulperform t bar number salesmanship thrown in. the fact is donald trump was very successful with "the apprentice." he understands the value of tension. he understands the value of showmanship. and candidly, the news media will chase a rabbit. so it's better off for him to give them a rabbit than to go off and find their own rabbit. >> absolutely.
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welcome back to "hardball." that was newt gingrich saying trump has a little pt barnum in him. trump has controlled the media narrative by tossing out tweets on topics that are red meat for his base, flag burning allegations evof voter fraud. what does it say about how trump will run the country for the next four or eight years? i'm joined by the round table. ruth marcus a columnist i often degree with, jonathan capehart opinion writer, and molly hemingway for the federalist. ruth, what is your gut reason why donald trump -- by the way, he gets up like a nun, like at 5:00 in the morning and i don't think he's praying. he's up so early because we know by the tweet clock. why does he get up and immediately hears something on
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fox or something on rush, something -- not rush at that time, but interest where he hears that military veterans are complaining of what was done at a left wing college up in massachusetts. so what? and he gets all excited about it. why? >> most of us need a little k r caffeine before we get that worked up. did your mom used to tell to you think before you spoke? sd >> jefferson did that. >> nobody told donald trump -- >> would he be pressed? >> he needs to be heard and if something annoys him, he doesn't know how to hold it in. >> did you hear the story somebody once counseled him if you're mad, express it and get over with it and you will live longer? >> it might help you. for most people, it doesn't help them in their business and professional life. it may be for donald trump. >> somebody said i don't get
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ulcers, i give ulcers. >> probably donald trump's mantra. we see him continuing what he views as a wing strategy. he tweeted throughout the campaign. he picked fights. and therefore of course he will try to use it in the presidency. >> why does it work? >> i think i know the answer, but if this is what we have to look forward to over the next four years, he was elected three weeks ago tonight. i'm already exhausted. and he's not even president of the united states yet. >> that's part of how if works. he knows how to bait not just the media, but the left. he just announced that he's going on a thank you tour where i imagine you might see people on the left protesting by burning flags. burning flags is very unpopular, it's protected according to a very narrowly decided supreme court decision, but it still remains very unpopular.
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people use it as a wedge issue all the time. >> scalia was on the side of free speech. >> he was the fifth vote, but the only thing that is weird, why did he tweet it now when he doesn't need to distract from some other story. >> that we know of. >> this worked for him during the campaign. i have a question about whether it will work as well in the presidency. because being president is different. people expect something different from you. and he's going to war with the constitution here. he's going to war with justice scalia. and what he says matters in a different way than three weeks ago. >> you may not agree, certainly don't want to digest it, but could it be that everything that he said -- we did a program on this last week, how not to run to president and still win. it could be that every single thing he does from the growest thing we don't like to the comical to the whatever, to the tragic, every single thing trump says is i'm not one of them.
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i'm not one of the politicians runnings country. they don't talk like me, i don't talk like them. they're the problem, i'm not. 62 million votes. not the most number, but 62 million votes. >> sure, but most of those people thought that he was unqualified to be be president of the united states. >> explain that. >> look, people are angry, people are tired. but i do think that people will tire of this guy and the way that he serves in the role of president. i agree with ruth on this. when you are president, at least that's what the rules have said in the past, that when you occupy the office, actually become president of the united states, you must -- well, i don't know if change is the right word, but you must cop form to the confines of the presidency. i'm not so sure that he will.com to the confines of the presidency. i'm not so sure that he will. but to newt beginning gik rich's
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point about the rabbit, this is what i will ask myself. what is he trying to distract from. what is he trying to get us to not pay attention to. >> everybody is saying that now. everybody -- you're not one, but all the democratic spokespeople, surrogates, are all doing that number now. they're all saying he's knowledge doing it for any other reason than to hide something they want to attack. >> there are a lot of issues of people -- when he won and everyone freaked out, there was this sort of period where pipe allowed the freakout to continue. and then then see things will flag burning and flags being flown at half-mast and there is a huge portion of the population that hates things like this. >> most of the country doesn't like it. >> and they're not getting their views represented very well, so he can cut out the gatekeeper. specific drepirectly to them. he has no incentive to stop tweeting.
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>> and on this issue of flag burning, there is one person who is a friend of mine member of congress, still is a member in the senate now, and he made a case and he said, you know, he's a liberal, but he said the flag is draped on the coffins of the people coming home who fought our wars and defended this country. and you have to think about in a as being a special category. maybe not yelling fire in a theater, but something about its ability to incite people. it's close to that. it really gets to the heart of your love of your country. and i know it's symbolic and under the first amendment, but there is a reason why it enrages people. >> and that would be a good way for the media to think about this in th this, that this is a bigger discussion about patriotism. >> it would make people like me feel better if the tweet or the next tweet or the tweet after that had indicated some awareness that this was an issue that the supreme court had decided on, that this was an issue that the first amendment protects and yet i disagree.
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right? >> like a lot of issues. if you get away from the rights issue, your right do it, and whether should you do it or not, it better be an extreme case if you're going to burn the flag i think. must be something really important. the roundtable is sticking with us. these three will tell me something i don't know. even a rodent ride-along. [dad] alright, buddy, don't forget anything! [kid] i won't, dad... [captain rod] happy tuesday morning! captain rod here. it's pretty hairy out on the interstate.traffic is literally crawling, but there is some movement on the eastside overpass. getting word of another collision. [burke] it happened. december 14th, 2015. and we covered it. talk to farmers. we know a thing or two because we've seen a thing or two. ♪ we are farmers. bum-pa-dum, bum-bum-bum-bum ♪
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hillary clinton's lead in the popular vote, by the way, continues to grow. it's up to 2.3 million votes or
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1.6 percentage points. that's the widest margin for a losing presidential candidate since 1876. and the last presidential candidate who won the popular vote but lost the election says it's time to ditch the electoral college. here's al gore earlier today. >> it's pathetic how our system is not working today. and i think that moving to a popular vote for president would be one of the initiatives, getting money out of the process, which is another difficult challenge. but if we can do three or four things that could bring our democracy back to life and help us to make good decisions again. >> of course, al gore won the popular vote by about 600,000 votes, so we all can understand how he might prefer that measure of victory. ♪
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gaviscon is a proven heartburn remedy that gives you fast-acting, long-lasting relief. it immediately neutralizes acid and only gaviscon helps keep acid down for hours. for fast-acting, long-lasting relief, try doctor-recommended gaviscon. we're back with the "hardball" roundtable. the news has just confirmed that
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trump is about to name steven mnuchin as treasury secretary. what do you make of that pick? >> this is a guy who has no government experience, comes from goldman sachs, from the world of big business, from california, the world of hollywood. i think it's just yet another curious selection by the president-elect. >> royalty rules. >> exactly. >> ruth? >> so much for populism. seems like just yesterday we were railing against goldman sachs speeches and wives who worked for goldman sachs. >> molly? >> cronyism always wins and no matter who is elected and that's true. you're seeing this with other decisions that trump is making as well. >> but that's not news. what else you got? >> for instance, he's put people in transition at epa who are very focused on pulling back regulations and doing regulatory reform based on trump's theory that environmental regulations are very damaging to american business. >> thank you.
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when we return, let me finish with trump watch. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics. o is for ordinarily i wouldn't. l is for layers of luxury. a is for alll the way back. r is for read my mind. and i... can't see a thing. s... see you in the morning. polaris, from united. i found a better deal on prescriptions. we found lower co-pays... ...and a free wellness visit. new plan...same doctor. i'm happy. it's medicare open enrollment. have you compared plans yet? it's easy at medicare.gov. or you can call 1-800-medicare. medicare open enrollment. you'll never know unless you go. i did it. you can too. ♪
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trump watch, tuesday november 29th, 2016. i noticed during the campaign that mr. trump couldn't give up the stuff he did in front of crowds, even when the people close to him said to stop throwing out those lines, to quit the shots at opponents, he wouldn't or couldn't. he just had to have that constant fix of audience reaction. needed to know he had direct contact with the trump people out there, whether in the audience in front of him or those watching on television. what trump fears most, what all who perform in public do is flop sweat. the knowledge that you've lost the audience, that people are no longer hanging ining on and get excited by your every word. today he said nobody should be allowed to burn the american flag. if they do, there must be consequences, perhaps loss of citizenship or year in jail. what was this about, people began asking early today?
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once again trump had, in newt gingri gingrich's words, a rabbit to chase. but it is what got him to victory in this campaign, a message to the country that he is not just another politician? i think that's precisely what it is, another declaration in real time that he's not one of them. expect a lot of this the next four years. what it has to do with governing, unclear. what it has to do with politics, in trump's mind, is the name of his game. and that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. "all in" with chris hayes starts right now. >> tonight on "all in" -- >> you cannot let people die on the street. now some people say that's not a very republican thing to say. >> donald trump's latest cabinet pick set up an epic showdown over obamacare and medicare. tonight, democrats draw new battle lines for what could be the first big fight for the

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