tv MSNBC Live With Thomas Roberts MSNBC November 30, 2016 11:00am-12:01pm PST
first month's lease payment on select models during the season of audi sales event. (bing) test. that does it for this hour of msnbc live. >> breaking news on the attack at ohio state university. we have new information on where the suspect obtained the weapon used in that assault. also, breaking news from h carolina. the district attorney announcing he will not pursue charges in the police-involved shooting of keith lamont scott. plus, severe storms blamed for five deaths in alabama and tennessee. and ceo in chief, donald trump tweets he's leaving his company in total to focus on being president. will his business empire remain a family affair?
we begin with breaking news out of stacharlotte. scott was shot in september in the parking lot outside of his apartment. today, the d.c. said scott had a gun and ignored demands from five officers to drop it. >> it is my opinion that officer vincent acted lawfully when he shot mr. scott. i know some out there are going to be frustrated. >> we don't believe that the entire investigation is over because we're still conducting ours. part of the problem, part of the unrest that you saw here was because very little information was being put out to the public. gabe gutierrez is joining me, ari melber and midwin charles.
gabe, talk to me how the d.a. explains no charges being filed. >> this was a very lengthy news conference, about 40 minutes or so where he described meticulously all of the evidence that the state bureau of investigation had gone into. we heard in greater detail right now that this was a case that sparked two days of violent protests in late september. here's what the district attorneyays this went down. he says that the plain-clothed officers served a warrant around 4:00 on september 20th. then they saw keith lamont scott. he was not the suspect they were looking for. he was inside the car and they say he had a gun and they saw him rolling a marijuana cigarette. they left to get backup to return to arrest scott because of that and they had put on
these vests, these police vests, got out of their car and yelled at least ten times, according to the district attorney, to drop the weapon. now, the district attorney says that scott ignored those commands and that was key in determining that the officer acted lawfully in order when he used deadly force. of course, as you mentioned, tom, the family disagrees with that. they say, you know, that just because he had a weapon or even if he did have a weapon, that the officer shouldn't have used deadly force. they are still looking into pursue civil legal action in this case. >> gabe, stand by for me. let's talk more about that. we know that the scott family lawyers will have their own investigation in this but also as gabe is pointing out, the presence of a gun should not be reason enough for deadly force. take a listen to that.
>> well, at this point, there's no evidence that he had a gun in his hands. >> and this is an open carry state. how do you get it from an open carry state to imminent danger and therefore deadly force was used. >> the video evidence of the gun earlier in the day does exist. what do we know about that? >> the family is making a point that you have in general a constitutional right to bear arms and in many states like this one, a right to have the gun on your person. although the legal aspect he is of this gun were somewhat in doubt but the family would not know that. this is the d.a. pointing to video from earlier in the day that they say shows mr. scott get out -- and they circled the pant leg and the gun holster on his leg shows that the gun was in there and that goes to the d.a.'s findings, their view as a legal matter and a factual
matter that they found, they believe, that he had the gun on his person there and that, thus, he was likely or they believe to say the evidence suggests, although it's not proven because it's not on the video, that he had unholstered the gun. that's legally significant because there's a big difference between a gun somewhere and he got out of a car holding a gun. the other evidence i should note that we can independently served from what the d.a. confirms, we did hear the officers yelling repeatedly, drop the gun, drop the gun over eight times. that, i would say, from an investigative perspective, tells you that those officers believed that there was a gun which goes to their state of mind. it doesn't answer the factual question which the video doesn't answer so we may never have the bigger answer whether he got out of the car holding or drawing the weapon. the family has a possibility of filing a civil suit for wrongful death or other legal matters which would involve a lower standard of proof than you need
in this criminal proceeding. >> let's talk about the county saying it with held details in order to protect the facts to a possible trial here. so the community saw it as a cover-up. do you think this helped or hurt? >> you always see in these kinds of cases where they say that they need to withhold the details from the family so they are able to do their jobs. i understand that. but i will tell you this. when i watch that presser, i was not sure if i was watching a prosecutor whose job it is when there is wrongdoing or a defense attorney doing a he is enclosing argument. that's part of the problem why i think this community is distrustful of investigations such as this and when district attorneys are looking into these kinds of cases. the entire perspective is
different. as an attorney who practices criminal law and someone who has been a victim of crime as well, this is not the way it goes. the district attorney is not going to do this long presser and work hard to exonerate the police officer. >> gabe, i want to ask you about that. it was the systematic detail way of going through the evidence because a lot of social media falsehoods that came out in the early days of the shooting aftermath. why did the d.a. feel that was so important? >> you're right. there was a flood of information that came out. it was raw emotion that people saw around the country and there were some witnesses in that facebook livestream, witnesses
interviewed by the reporters in the day following the shooting. they had said, for example, that scott was armed. well, the district attorney came out and said that he was unarmed, rather, and the district donor came out and said that he was armed. that was one falsehood. several witnesses said that there was a white officer that had shot keith lamont scott. the district attorney said that was false. while his wife had told her attorneys early on and told reporters that scott was unarmed, investigators found that there were text messages referencing a gun between her and keith lamont scott in the month before the shooting. so it goes back to we have all of this information in digital age, social media, it got spread
very quickly and the district attorney cautioned the public and the media and said before jumping to conclusions, they need to let this investigation play out. he urged calm, said that this was meticulously down. >> gabe gutierrez on his way to charlotte for us. thank you. we're asking in the poll question today, a prosecutor concluded an officer acted lawfully in the shooting of keith lamont scott. do you agree with that decision? we're following breaking developments from the south this afternoon. a tale of destruction as a tornado lifted in the southeast where overnight storms killed five people in two different
states and a fourth death from wildfires. this is a desperate search for the missing. >> it's a very difficult thing for everyone. we are concerned about folks that haven't been accounted for and, as i said earlier, we want to assure these folks, we'll do everything in our power to help loved ones and that's a priority of ours and it's troubling. we're concerned, we're praying. >> our correspondents are fanned out across the southeast. kerry sanders and i want to begin in pigeon forge with kerry sanders. hell is how it is being described. what more can you tell us? >> reporter: well, in that death, they found the body inside a motel that had burned.
there are initially three people missing and then five people missing and now it looks like there may be as many as eight people missing. we've had rain come through here. the evacuees that want to make their way into the area have discovered getting back into an area that has soaked into the ground, the soaked soils are causing other problems, fears that there could be trees coming down and much more. >> the new challenge that the weather is creating for us after the fire is we are experiencing some small mudslides and rock slides. we're having to go back into area that were previously cleared and accessible and go through some of our same
processes over again. >> reporter: which, of course, means some people now who want to make their way into the areas that were impacted, like the one where i'm standing at, may find that they'll be delayed by several days and that makes people more anxious. they want to know what happened and what survived and, more importantly, if anything survived. thomas? >> kerry, thank you very much. our kerry sanders in pigeon forge, tennessee. and now mariana, you're in an area that's been devastated by tornadoes in ocoee? >> that's right. i was with our kerry sanders yesterday in pigeon forge. this area has been ravaged by tornadoes overnight. look at the scene around me.
just behind me there's a post office that's completely destroyed. i'm standing in front of a firestation. also completely destroyed. there are two confirmed deaths. four people are severely injured and 40 to 50 structures now confirmed severely damaged and destroyed. i'm here with the fire chief steven lo steven lofty. i understand this is where the worst of it happened. describe what you saw behind us. >> initially our station was down and we had to bring additional equipment in. stump week runs parallel with the main highway. we encountered two individuals that had to be extricated. once we got those out, we started a search. the heaviest damage, structural damage, it's directly behind us. >> and some of the individuals you were able to save behind us?
>> yes. one lady was pinned underneath a lot of material. we extricated her from the material and had her transported. later on, we extricated her husband and had him transported. also, as we were doing our ground search, we found two fatalities adjacent to those individuals. >> reporter: thank you so much, chief. the community is lucky to have you. the estimated financial costs of the damage is up to a million dollars, you said. >> our preliminary estimates are a million and no telling how much higher it will go. it's very hard for this area. it's very economically and it's going to be tough for everyone here. >> reporter: thank you, chief. thomas, something i noticed on the ground that i want to show you, a sign that reads "mom." a reminder that these are people's homes and livelihoods and it's a community in pain here today in tennessee. >> mariana in ocoee, tennessee, thank you very much. a busy hour as we push
forward here on msnbc live. fresh new details surfacing this hour about the weapon used in the attack on the campus at ohio state. and then, all in the family, trump says he's quitting his businesses to make sure he can have no conflicts of interest between the white house and trump organization. and new information about the role sarah palin may be interested in filling in a trump cabinet. world ugly and messy. they are the natural born enemy of the way things are. yes, ideas are scary, and messy and fragile. but under the proper care, they become something beautiful.
they say. >> it's no small task to transition a multibillionaire who's done so many different things into being completely ready for taking over president of the united states. >> so new names added to his cabinet, steve mnuchin in treasury and former alaska governor sarah palin may be up for v.a. secretary. joining me is kristen welker and ali velshi. what can you tell me about the short list. >> first, to governor palin, the fact that he's eyeing her, this is something that govern for palin would potentially be interested in. obviously, she was out on the campaign trail with him, one of
his top surrogates and top supporters and really trying to energize the base for donald trump. she's the one whose son has served in the military so this is something near and dear to her heart. she's someone who really energizes conservatives, tea party republicans. this is obviously a key issue and has been a big issue for donald trump throughout his campaign. in terms of the other people he's meeting with today, one of the top names, general john kelly, a retired marine general and we were told earlier today there were four top candidates. those candidates include rudy giuliani and mitt romney and, of course, president-elect trump had dinner with mitt romney last night. you had those interesting optics. they were sitting at that table there in new york, all smiles along with reince priebus, the incoming chief of staff. donald trump saying that he felt good about the meeting and, of course, the challenge there is the fact that mitt romney was one of the first people to come out and really criticize him
sharply, one of the first top republicans to do so. mitt romney after that dinner came out and talked to reporters and said president-elect trump was able to do something that i couldn't do, which is essentially to win the general election. a lot of questions about whether mitt romney would actually apologize for all of that criticism. that wasn't an apology, thomas, but it was certainly, i think, a way to give the president-elect his due and to make it very clear he's interested in that position. but we are told we're not going to get an answer about who secretary of state is, at least not through the weekend. we continue to wait. >> the optics of that with donald trump in the godfather position in the corner. when it comes to shifting gears on donald trump, the one thing that can't shift is the ethics related to trump organization and praising the president-elect's decision to step away from his company, what
can you tell us about that decision? >> well, not a whole lot because we pressed top transition officials about this, what is he going to announce on december 15th when holds a news conference with his children in which he's apparently going to say that he's removing himself in some way, shape or form from his business but they wouldn't give us details about what exactly had been decided. are they still in the process of working through the fine print? that is possible, thomas. of course, he is a billionaire. he has a fast empire. does he need to completely divest? he has not said he's prepared to do that. will he give his businesses over to his children. even if he does, that doesn't necessarily erase conflicts of interest. does he put his holdings into a blind trust, liquidate his holdings? those are among the questions that we're asking and probably among the many questions they are asking as well, donald trump saying that he's immune from the conflict of interest laws. that's essentially the case. presidents put their holdings in
a blind trust. however, he has said this is something that he wants to tackle, he wants to do this because he doesn't want there to be any lingering questions. i will also make one more point, thomas, which is a lot of questions about cabinet picks that you mentioned, wilbur ross, steve mnuchin, they are billionaires, wall street insiders, people who are not exactly the type of people you think of when you think about draining the swamp. i asked his top officials about that, does this run counter to his position of draining the swamp. listen to what jason miller said. >> these are experts who now how to win and i think that's another important thing that i would note as well. is that the president-elect will put together a cabinet of winners. >> also worth noting, vice president-elect mike trump has meetings on capitol hill. we'll be watching that as well. >> kristen, stand by for me. i want to go to stephanie
because democrats don't like the pick of steve mnuchin. senator sherrod brown says it's not draining the swamp. >> they know how to win and they know how to win themselves. he's not just a former goldman partner. he's the sun of a goldman partner. he goes to a hedge fund and gets involved in film finance, which is a business filled with government loopholes but to make matters worse, he ran bank one, which was involved in 36,000 foreclosures tied to the subprime crisis. john paulson became famous in the financial industry from becoming a multibillionaire and betting against subprimes.
so it's why people have been so you be set, the financial industry bailed out, not one person went to jail. they have only risen through this. they say we're going to put this person as secretary treasury. wall street itself is amazed. >> bringing corporations back is the first priority for this post. take a listen to this, though. >> our number one priority is tax reform. this will be the largest tax change since reagan. we've talked about this during the campaign. wilbur and i have worked very closely together on the campaign. we're going to cut corporate taxes which will bring huge amounts of jobs back to the united states. >> what do you think you'll get to on that? >> 15%. and we'll bring a lot of cash back into the u.s. >> the carrier deal announced, keeping a thousand jobs going from mexico, but on a meta level, are they really going to fulfill the promise of keeping taxes, cutting taxes for the
lower class, making the rich pay more or is it going to be more of the same? >> it doesn't seem that the rich is going to pay more. even that's not really clear. the rich sometimes pay 39.6% on a personal income level and donald trump has talked about 35% as a top rate. but the corporate tax rate thing is interesting. tax reform is bipartisan. everybody agrees the tax code needs to be reformed. it's just difficult to do. if they achieve some form of tax reform which brings overall tax rates lower but broadens. race, everyone talks about how america has the lowest tax rate, it's not true. it has the highest posted rate but not everybody pays it. they are trying to have more people pay at a lower rate. if they can repatriate that money, it could create jobs which creates demand. >> now, that's huge. there are trillions of dollars
that corporations have sitting overseas. if they can convince those companies and change regulation to bring that money back, companies have been sitting with massive amounts of cash on their balance sheets for the last few years because they didn't know what they were looking at. >> the obama administration didn't have a plan for that. if they were to get tax reform and infrastructure structuring and repair, president obama tried to do that but congress wouldn't let them. if they are able to do infrastructure and real tax reform, there's a possibility that they may see real growth. lee note as a canadian, we tried the lowering -- the 15%. it is not the panacea that everybody says it is.
>> donald trump picking up the phone, it's the right sentiment. it's gotten people excited. >> thank you both. i like to see you go back and forth about who can get the last word. ali velshi, stephanie ruhle, thank you. jill stein has requested a full hand recount in michigan. he's already requested it in p.a. and wisconsin so coming up next, the swamp runneth over. and we continue to follow breaking news in charlotte.
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prosecutors in charlotte announced there will be no charges in the police-involved shooting of keith lamont scott. today, the d.a. said scott had a gun and ignored his calls to drop it. >> after a thorough review, given the totality of the circumstances and credible events in this case, the officer acted lawfully when he shot mr. scott. he acted lawfully. >> scott's family said they were prefoundly disappointed in the decision not to charge the officer and the presence of the gun should not be reason enough fo deadly force. fires are still burning in the smoky mountains. thousands of people were forced
to flee. >> my colleagues at fema have provided a fire grid to provide additional resources. and police gave an update on the attack at ohio state university. the suspect may have been inspired by isis, the fbi says. >> he may have been inspired by anwar al awlaki or isis or isil. it's too soon to draw any type of conclusions. >> isis has claimed responsibility for this attack but u.s. officials say there's no established contact between the suspects and terror groups. three of the injured are still hospitalized during that incident. joining me is pete williams and stephanie gosk.
pete, to you first. >> the idea that he was inspired by anwar al awlaki, they say they don't know what videos he was looking at. obviously, he was familiar with those two terrorist organizations but what role they play, they don't know. now, we know and it was reported yesterday that the suspect in this case, artan bought a knife the morning of the attack at a walmart in columbus. now we've learned that he was here in washington, d.c., last week and bought a knife at a big hardware store, big home improvement store. whhe came here, why he bought a knife here is a complete mystery to the investigators, they say, why did he come to washington, they don't know. they also say that they are questioning family and friends trying to figure out his movements and what he was doing in the hours and days leading up to the attack. but this trip to washington is a
complete mystery, they say. thomas. >> pete, thank you. stephanie, you were at this press conference in the last hour. other than what they are saying about isis inspiration, do investigators have a better understanding for motive? >> reporter: well, it's interesting, thomas. what you didn't hear is almost just as important as what you did hear. she was asked if it was being called terrorism and she said we are not ready to go there yet but also made this link to being inspired to anwar al awlaki. this is the u.s. cleric that was killed in a drone strike in 2011 and he was mentioned in that facebook post that obviously taking this conservatively and not make a quick judgment on what the motive might have been
bill assumed his mayo was the best choice. assume nothing. unlike hellmann's, kraft real mayo spreads on smoother and still has no artificial flavors. no wonder the holidays taste so good. nancy pelosi faced a challenge from tim ryan and won. leader pelosi has been here a long time. we had an opinion and wanted to make sure people heard it. >> i have a special spring in my step tod because this opportunity is a special one to leave the house democrats and
bring everyone together as we go forward. >> pelosi has won the leadership and trump senior adviser kellyanne conway said, what a relief, i was worried they had learned from the elections it might be competitive and cohesive again. democrats missed the opportunity to step away from massive electoral losses and connect with workers. but this still leaves no answer for who will lead the party. congressman ryan was stunned when asked by our own kasie hunt about the future of the democrats. >> who is the future of the democratic party? is it nancy pelosi? >> to some extent. now is the time when everybody has to step up, which is why i wanted to do it and you see this crew here that went public and it was unheard of and in a
political caucus like for young people to stand up. >> that battle won by leader pelosi. meanwhile, donald trump building his campaign around the idea that he would drain the swamp. he told supporters the system was rigged. now donald trump is tapping the insiders tied to the financial crisis to serve in his cabinet. the president-elect using goldman sachs executive steve mnuchin and billionaire investor wilbur ross. >> the number one problem with dodd/frank is it's way too complicated. >> that will be the number one priority on the regulatory side. >> joining me now is contributor and former chief economic adviser to biden, jared bernstein. also from washington, president and columnist at "the hill,"
john feehery. >> listen, trump is i can approximating guys that know what they are doing. he promised to keep jobs in america which he's done with carrier. he promised to make america great again and if you reform the tax code, allow banks to start lending again and get people back to work, i think that that's exactly what these guys are going to do. i think trump is smart to pick him. >> mnuchin is a wall street insider and spent time in the private sector. >> a number of the things that he's been saying actually make me pretty nervous. the thing you just heard is really kind of the idea that we've got to get banks lending again. in fact, banks are lending
already credit is flowing pretty freely and inadequate regulatory oversight that ended up flating the housing bubble and getting us into a mess that we are climbing out of. so the idea that you'd get rid of dodd/frank deregulated industry that has brought down the economy with inflating this, also if you look at the trump tax cut idea that designee mnuchin is taking credit for, this is going to be a really serious problem for the budget deficit because it's going to be shutting 4 to 6 trillion in revenues, mostly going to the top of the scale thereby exacerbating inequality. >> you make that point about the crisis and ross and mnuchin made
fortunes off of that. when it comes to what was born out of that crisis, created by elizabeth warren, do you think it could survive the incoming administration. >> i think the cfpd is going to change, i think it has to change and become more representative. it has a bigger board. and i also think we have to take the parking brakes off the economy. banks are not lending like they should be lending. they are not lending to small businesses as easily as they can be. to grow main street, we have to get more money on the main street. i disagree with my good friend jared on this. we need to keep people working and get them back to work. >> if you look at the nfib, the small business group, you ask them what's your biggest concern
right now? the idea that credit is a problem for them simply doesn't show up in that survey. very few say that's a problem. so it does seem like credit is freeing more freely. in terms of the tax code, sure, i mean, our statutory corporate tax rate is too high and needs to come down. the problem is you can't do that in a way that's going to lose you north of 4 trillion because then you'll look at budget deficits that go through the roof. you won't be able to do any of the things we need to do. >> john, let me get this in quickly. linda mcmahon was at the trump tower. is that a perfect background to come into the trump administration potentially for a cabin cabinet pick? >> linda mcmahon is one of the most successful business careers and strong supporter of donald trump. i think trump would be smart to
put her somewhere in his cabinet. she knows how to grow a business and people who have know how and know how to grow business. >> very quick point. it's not at all clear to me that business people do a great job when you bring them over to government. there's this embedded assumption that billionaires are going to be great for the economy. that's really never been born out. >> gentlemen, thank you very much. again, linda mcmahon taking meetings there at trump tower. i might have said they were divorced but apparently they are not. got to do some more fact-checking on that. apparently they are still married. let's go to the police for florida asking for help finding a missing woman since sunday. she was staying with her aunt after escaping what her family calls an abusive relationship. investigators say madison's husband is wanted in indiana after a shooting at madison when
she tried to leave him. her family fears that jarvis madison is involved. >> when there's guns involved and uncertainty where he may be taking her, we want to get this solved as quickly as possible. >> he's very threatening and very danrous person. >> so madison went for a jog on sunday and has not been heard since. we take the news now to california. investigators there working to crack the mysterious case of a woman kidnapped for more than three weeks before being found miraculously alive. sherri went out for a jog in redding and was found 22 days later 150 miles away after she flagged down a driver in yolo county. gadi schwartz is live. they are releasing more information about the kidnapping and the condition of this woman. >> reporter: the information is.
could not coming from the investigators. it's coming from the family. keith papini described seeing her for the first time in the hospital as saying the officers warned me to brace myself. my first sight was my wife in a hospital betd her face covered in bruises from yellow to black, the bridge of her nose broken. her body was covered in bruises, severe burns, red rashes and chain markings, her signature long blond hair had been chopped off and she looked like she had been starved, only weighing 87 pounds and described what appeared to be brand marks on her body. we asked the sheriff here of shasta county about those brand marks and what they could mean. here's what he had to say. >> maybe a method of torture. it could mean a way of control or exerting control over a person. is it a symbol or some type of
message either to the person, the victim or to others. >> reporter: the most frustrating part is the kidnappers are still out there and the description of those kidnappers is still incredibly vague. so far, investigators have only described them as two hispanic women driving a dark suv and last seen with a handgun. so in a little while, in about an hour, the sheriff is about to have a press conference here hoping to she had mod more deta what happened and perhaps a motive and a better description of the kidnappers. >> gadi scartz, thank you. we'll go back there for the press conference. time for a check of the microsoft pulse question. a prosecutor concluding an officer acted lawfully in the death of keith lamont scott.
do you agree? 30% say yes and 70% say no. coming up next, the final four, we're talking about the president-elect widdling down his list of who he chooses as secretary of state. mitt romney had dinner last night with donald trump. is the proof in the pudding? we'll talk about that in a moment. to do the best
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a had a wonderful meeting with president-elect trump and he won the general election, something i was not able to do. and he continues with a message of bringing people together. >> so there we have mitt romney striking a very different tone and in the recent past when he's called the president-elect a phony and a fraud. that was during the campaign.
and now that trump has won the election u. mitt romney is in the running to be secretary of state and this is a different position than these two were in back in march of this year. >> i backed mitt romney. i back him. he was begging for my endorsement. i could have said, mitt, drop to your knees and he would have dropped to his knees. he was begging. >> so still the men came together last night. the second of two meetings, to discuss the possibility of romney becoming secretary of state. romney is one of the four finalists for that post. steve kornacki joins me here onset. we just got word seconds ago that condoleezza rice was seen at the transition team headquarters in washington, d.c., to meet with president-elect and transition team leader mike pence. what do you make, though, of this trump/mitt romney meeting and this big show last night of
dining together? is mitt romney putting himself at a big risk if trump doesn't pick him? >> well, look, it clearly shows -- we had a pretty good sense before last night, mitt romney wants the job. he's willing to go out in public and say something different in tone and substance. mitt romney would only be saying that if he thought there was a chance he wanted this job. it's 180 degrees from where he is and at the same time in mitt romney is going to be secretary of state, it has to be awkward. >> do you think there's any wriggle room, can mitt romney come out and criticize donald trump? has donald trump tricked him into a corner, basically, i
think all of those rules are out the window. mitt romney trashed donald trump all year. now he is singing his praises. and now he since a very different tune. >> the sound bite we played into was one of many, one that we can look back and go over how difficult and acrimonious these two men -- >> i think that's the thing about donald trump, the way he views competition. he views it when there's no rules and if you have a weapon, even if it's hypocritical and contradicts what you've said before, you use it and end up respecting the person that throws it at you. >> that is the conundrum. just a reminder, catch steve every day at 4:00 p.m. right here. steve, thanks again. we have a big night here. coming up at rockefeller center. i'll show you the christmas tree after this break. stand by.
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there. it is, the iconic rockefeller christmas tree lighting getting under way at 30 rock in new york citya star-studded event. performances by tony bennett, neil diamond, dolly parton, garth brooks and tricia yearwood, that's just to name a few. that's going to wrap up this hour. i'm thomas roberts. kate snow is up next. thomas, thanks. i'm kate snow. we begin with a grim picture in the southeast. the death toll from the massive wildfires in tennessee standing at four people. rainy weather could be helping going forward but it also brings new concerns of mud and rockslides. remember that story about soldiers being forced to pay