tv Hardball With Chris Matthews MSNBC December 1, 2016 11:30pm-12:01am PST
how often do we get to say this? there were fireworks in cambridge tonight between the trump and clinton's campaign. following every election since 1972, the kennedy school at harvard have followed the campaign aides to capture what they call the first draft of history. one of the discussions was moderated by our own andrea mitchell who will join us in a
minute, so there was trump campaign manager kellyanne conway with her team, squared off against clinton campaign manager robbie molk and his team, and it got heated especially on the topic of trump's chief strategist, steve bannon. >> he gets held to a standard that none of these other folks do. >> dan, if providing a platform for white supremacists makes me a brilliant tactician, i am glad to have lost. give me a minute, david. i am more proud of hillary's alt-right speech, and i am happy to be losing. >> how exactly did we win? i would like to know. we spent months doing it, and we
did it, and we looked at the electoral map of 270 because that's how you win the presidency. >> one of my proudest moments of her is her standing up and saying with courage and clarity in steve bannon's own words, the and donald trump's own words, the platform that they gave to white supremacists and white nationalists, and it is a very, very important moment in our history of our country, and i think as his presidency go ahead forward, i am going to be very glad to have been part of the campaign that tried to stop it. >> do you think this woman in 200 counties that president obama won and donald trump just won, you think that's because of what you just said or that people wanted a woman president? how about the people who have nothing in common with her?
>> kasie hunt is just back from there. she was also present for that as a panelist. nicolle wallace remains here, important, because she has taken part in this event twice, once on the winning team, once on the losing team. kasie, we were just peppering you with questions because you were just in from there. i don't think i've ever heard anything like that -- >> what was it like? >> look, when we first walked into that room, you could cut the tension with a knife. and i'm not sure that anyone there expected a moment like that one that we just played to actually happen. but on the other hand, when it did, it was almost unsurprising, because these two campaigns showed up to continue fighting this election. frankly, the trump campaign came to gloat about their win, and the clinton campaign came to defend her honor --
>> and relitigate it. >> -- and relitigate what happened. you're absolutely right. >> andrea mitchell, in our business moderating is a frequent thing we're called upon to do. we do it happily and usually the participants come. they do their thing, everybody shakes hands and goes home. and i know you've been around for a couple of these. this sounds unlike anything else. >> it really was. as kasie was saying, the tension was there. it was dan bolt of the "washington post" and kacie and me, and we've done what past moderators have done. we went through the timeline, the themes, prepared, studied, divided up the questions. we were going to get this first draft of history asking each of the campaigns what was happening in your strategy sessions behind the scene? because it's going to be a book. there were harvard students there, and the whole point was
to get this record. instead they were just going at each other. as kasie said, there was a lot of gloating going on as part of the trump team, and the clinton team very defensive, but defending their principal, hillary clinton, and the attacks got more and more raw, and the anger more raw, and there was a motion, and we didn't know whether to step in or back off. it was very, very tough. >> the fact that there is just audio and no video almost increases the drama, especially when jen-paul-mary gets choked up. nicolle, i assume you like the harvard school better as a winning candidate than a losing candidate, but they were all magnanimous. >> here's the thing. i went in '04 after we won, and i went in '08 after we lost. in both instances, the tone is set by the winning campaign. when you win, it is your job to make the other side feel comfortable because you have the far easier job.
the trump campaign is so unique, because from the top of the organization on down, they are grinding axes like it's going out of style. and when you have won and you show up with an ax to grind, you throw off the entire dynamic. it's supposed to be what andrea mitchell just described, this first draft of history. so you answer honestly, in '08, for example, david axelrod said, oh, we thought we were screwed when sarah palin gave that convention speech, it was so good. biden said, oh, bleep bleep, and the winning campaign said, we thought we were screwed when you went to germany. a hundred million people stood there. it's super frank and honest because the result had been had. this was so different, and particularly about race, because this is when i feel like the clinton side feels like we're a country in danger. yes, our side lost, but she lost and now there is someone who has
given safe haven to white supremacy. that's how they feel. and kellyanne conway -- by the way, kelly ann conway and jenpaulmary are the best on their side. they are like a tigress circling each other, and they're the best at what they do. so kellyanne conway thinks they won because of winning and jenpaulmary thought they won. >> for a wide variety of reasons in each instance, but i think jenpal mary doesn't feel like there is anybody else saying what she said, that the media is not willing to call donald trump out on those things and call people what they are. >> and i imagine there wasn't any mention that we got the election wrong. >> the real argument is that
everything turned after the second set of comey letters, that that last 11 days they came out of the election winning and that james comey changed it all. they're not acknowledging they got the battleground wrong or didn't send her to wisconsin. there is a little bit of defensiveness there, but they are pointing out they think they lost the philadelphia suburbs and the milwaukee suburbs, the college-educated white voters and a lot of women. after that second comey letter, and the follow-up letter two days before the election, or sunday before the election. so they're very bitter about that, but certainly, as kasie is saying, they feel like we were always asking -- our stories about hillary clinton were all about donald trump said this, can you react to it? or, what do you think about donald trump? even if it was a narrative they had put out, for instance, the extraordinarily emotional gold
star father, you know, mr. khan, at the convention, jen pointed out that a lot of what we asked about on the bus trip that came out of the convention through pennsylvania and ohio was about mr. khan because people were talking about mr. khan. well, he was the emotional sender of the convention. yes, donald trump and hillary clinton was talking about mr. khan. so it's not as though that wasn't part of the narrative as well. there is a lot of water. it's too raw, it's too soon, and as nicolle said, the winner sets the tone and the tone was ugly. >> two things on that. on the tone and the winner setting it, i think one thing that was a little bit revisionist on the part of the trump campaign was them going in and saying, we knew we were going to win, and just none of you all believed us. and the reality was at the time, as we all know, they did not believe that they were going to win and they came to most of the networks a week before and said,
we're probably not going to win. i also think that the clinton campaign, one of the subthemes that was very important is the role that gender played in her loss. and hillary clinton specifically, as somebody who has taken slings and arrows for many decades in public life, and the clinton campaign talked quite a bit about how they always heard the country is ready for a woman, but just not this woman. and randi grunewald said, you know, if you look at the numbers, the way she polls, you would think she is a man. people say she is strong. people say she is ready to be commander in chief. and mandy grunewald said, we don't know when another woman of these attributes will come along. i don't know if we'll see another one like this.
and she said, i didn't think this was the case. hillary clinton was treated unfairly all the time by the media. there were a total different set of rules. she really believes there are a different set of rules for hillary clinton. >> nicolle, having gotten to know you and the rest of our family on television, i think we've been surprised at how much at your level the professionals know and like each other. you guys are essentially all friends, and i know you talked to jenpaulmary tonight. >> i did, and we had a version of that conversation. did you ever think she would be defeated by a man who boasted about grabbing a woman in the genitals? it's pretty base, right? we talked about hidden stuff in the end, the hidden hillary vote, the hidden trump vote. i think there is hidden sexism. it is rampant.
the first woman candidate from either party was defeated by someone who bragged about being a sexual aggressor, a sexual predator. i don't want to dance around the words. and he is someone who white supremacists are excited about. those are cold, hard facts. what he said today is really important. he had one line, it was about a sentence and a half long, about how we disavow hatred and division. that should have been the speech he gave today. he's not going to win over jenpaulmary, but he could win over a lot of people who think it is appalling that white supremacists are excited about him. appalling. i worked in public politics my whole career. i never knew a white supremacist to be cheered by george w. bush or john mccain. it's not normal. when people get outraged that we're normalizing trump, he was outraged by the voters because they elected him president. but there are pieces of his coalition that should never be given safe haven inside the republican party.
>> and there are ways in which republicans who nicolle has woshd with for many years who seemed on this side of the operatives. >> i talked to them, too, they were. this frustration you and andrea talked about, this bubbled over in more sessions than this final one that we played, and there are a lot of people in the media that didn't work on the campaign and are not democrats. >> we can only imagine what it was like for kasie hunt. andrea and nicolle, i hope you were both checked out in the emergency room. thank you for sharing your story tonight. thank you to andrea, thank you to nicolle. when we come back, new comments by speaker ryan in his relationship with donald trump. yes, there is more news on the transition.
i regret those comments that he made. i don't think -- claiming a person can't do the job because of their race is sort of like the textbook definition of a racist comment. i think that should be absolutely disavowed, it's absolutely disrespectable. >> that was june 7 this year. what a difference winning an election makes. it was no secret speaker paul ryan and president-elect donald trump had a rocky relationship before the campaign. tonight we're hearing from the speaker what that relationship is like these days in an interview with "60 minutes." >> you called donald trump a racist. >> no, i said his comment was. >> i'm not sure there is a great deal of daylight between those two definitions but he definitely called you ineffective and disloyal. have you patched it up? >> yeah, we have. we're fine. we're not looking back, we're looking forward. like i said, we speak about it every day, and it's not about looking back in the past. that's behind us. we're way beyond that. >> did you believe he could be nominated?
really. >> no, i didn't see this one coming. he knows that. donald trump is a very -- he was a very unconventional candidate. he's going to be an unconventional president. what i like about it in my, like i said, almost daily conversations is he's just a get-things-done kind of guy. >> have you told him being president is not being ceo of the united states, that the congress is going to have a say? >> oh, we've talked about that extensively. we've talked about the constitution, article 1 on the constitution, the separation of powers. he feels very strongly, actually, that under president obama's watch, he stripped a lot of power away from the constitution, away from the legislative branch of government, and we want to reset the balance of power so that people in the constitution are rightfully restored. >> kasie hunt covers the hill for us. in his own way, he is as different from donald trump as barack obama is on the other side, the ernest man from jaynesville, wisconsin.
>> an honest comment that, no, he did not see this coming and no one did in his party, quite frankly. i think paul ryan and the house of representatives will be the easy part for donald trump. in congress there will be a lot more tension on the senate side for a variety of reasons, mostly because mitch mcconnell will need 60 votes to get a lot of things done, and he doesn't have them. so i think patching things up with paul ryan is fundamentally critical to donald trump moving forward. i think it says a lot that the two of them have come this far and that trump has made this degree of overture to him. >> somehow they will manage legislation, or so we hope. >> we'll see. >> thank you, kasie hunt, after the long day you've had. we're back after the break with the new vote count. this is "the 11th hour."
finally here tonight as promised, we have an update on the raw vote. hillary clinton has expanded her lead to over 2.5 million votes topping 65.2 million to trump's 62.6. she leads in percentage 48 and change to 46 and change, and none of it got her elected president. the electoral map made donald trump president, specifically winning it as our deeply divided nation prepares for an inauguration less than 50 days from now. that is our expanded broadcast for this thursday night. thank you for being here with us. good night from new york.