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tv   Hardball With Chris Matthews  MSNBC  December 2, 2016 4:00pm-5:01pm PST

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after week, putting up with all of our nonsense. we'll be back on inauguration week for a curtain call of sorts. but for now, one last time, we saw to you, one, two, three, sighs si a nara! let's play "hardball." of. good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. it's been nearly a month since the election. but for many, it's more than a little bitterness out there. last night donald trump held a thank you rally in cincinnati amid chants of lock her up from the crowd. trump reminisced about how much fun it was battling hillary clinton. >> i'm going to discuss our action plan to make america great again. we're going to discuss it.
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although we did have a lot of fun fighting hillary, didn't we? >> and then there was the remarkable sight featuring top clinton aides. usually a civil affair where former rivals come together to get debriefed about the election. well, this year it devolved into shouting matches over the popular vote, the media and the race itself, or the issue of race, especially when the topic of trump senior adviser steve bannon came up. listen to this. >> he gets held to a standard that none of these other folks do. >> let me -- >> it provided -- dan, if providing a platform for white supremacists makes me brilliant -- a brilliant tactician -- give me a minute, david -- when i am more proud of hillary clinton's all right speech than any moment on the campaign. she had the courage to stand
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up -- i wa rather lose than win the way you guys did. >> no, you wouldn't, respectfully. do you think i ran a campaign where white supremacists were -- >> you did. >> do you think you could have had a decent message for the white working class voters? do you think this woman who has nothing in common with -- >> i'm not saying -- >> over 200 counties that president obama won and donald trump just won? >> let's get into it. you guys are pathetic, that's a great line. kel kellyanne conway accused the clinton supporters of being losers. >> i can tell you're angry, but wow. #he's your president, how is that. a hundred times on tv, they're all here, maybe a thousand times, will he accept the election results? will you? will you ever accept the election results? will you tell your protesters he's their president, too? >> i'm joined by casey hunt and
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susan page, who were both there last night. and howard fein. the tenor of this thing, they usually sit around the swells from harvard and talk about the intellectual. this is raw, bitter, gut-fighting, gutter-fighting. >> usually this is polite. polite would be a word. it was not polite yesterday. the trump people were in the room because they wanted acknowledgement that they won this election. they didn't really get it beforehand, they didn't get any credit. if anything, came to gloat a little bit. the clinton people were just downtrodden. they were there to defend her honor. it was very clear that they all felt very emotionally invested and devastated. and were nots past the election. you could see the culture clash that was on display throughout the campaign. in stark display in that room. even in the panels that were focused on the republican primary, where you had people who worked for republican candidates who might have sat
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across the table from hillary clinton and had a discussion like we've seen in past years. >> tough stuff. i imagine the people that lost felt bad. they didn't like david sitting there telling them -- he's an arch right guy. pretty nasty in politics. we all know that. they looked at him and said, you're the leader of our country? i can imagine what jennifer palmeri felt. >> they've been civil. and it's not like they've been friendly. this forum always takes place about three weeks after the election, when fumes are still pretty high. but the clinton people thought they were going to win. for them, they've had three weeks and they've not yet come to terms with it. >> and i think that's it. howard, it was too soon for an election which happened too quickly, the results came too quick for everybody. nobody knew what was going to happen. the trump people didn't know. nobody knew this was going to go the way it did. >> part of it is the shock of that defeat, as you say, that the clinton people haven't come to terms with. i've been going to these things since 1984.
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>> and for their students. >> they're for history as well as the students. they're to lay down the first draft of history from the sources. and i was there when the whole lee atwater controversy, the campaign of '88, that was raw. and yet people -- i moderated that panel. yet the situation was civil. because there was a feeling in the room that, you know what, we're all in this together. this is one country. and as barack obama said somewhat naively on election night and soothingly, this was an intramural game. the attitude at this thing, from everything i've seen, and the people i've talked to on both sides, was unforgiving. it's like we're not even part of the same country. and we're -- and it's more like after a college football game, let's say between ohio state and michigan. they hated each other before the game, they played the game, and now they hate each other afterwards. >> and -- >> the lack of civility in the
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campaign is reflected in this. >> the clinton people believe fundamentally that trump is going to tear the country apart. >> like george h.w. bush taking over. on the topic of hillary clinton's e-mails, david bossy faulted the clinton team's approach. it gets rougher. >> they made a calculated mistake, if they had put out all of the e-mails that judicial watch and vice news and citizens united and others had demanded, and the request for the two years prior, two years prior to this campaign, they would have solved their own problem. but instead, they used the old clinton playbook from the '90s. they drip, drip, drip, held it all internally. it was a winning strategy, i guess. >> he said, why didn't you do the same thing on the tax returns? this is the weird thing about the thing. last night i thought that the trump people -- or hillary
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people accused the media not being for hillary. i'm sorry, being tougher on her than trump. this is kind of odd. >> it was totally mixed up. i also think in the past, the media, i know, having been at a lot of these, is kind of a passive observer. we weren't the story in the past. but i gather here both at these events and at the dinner the night before, the media coverage, became one of the central issues of this whole debrief, which is fascinating. >> and there was no defenders of the media. >> no. >> the democrats thought that the press had been unfairly harsh on hillary clinton, and too soft on donald trump. and the trump people felt that the media never took trump seriously, didn't give him a fair shake, treated him in a dismissive way. the clinton people haven't come to terms with the loss. the trump people did not play the traditional role of gracious winners. neither of them had gotten off their campaign stances, even though the election is over.
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>> is this because these people, unlike -- well, we covered it for two or three years. they've lived it in the bunker for two years. the people up in brooklyn, that's all their life is. and then they see a new life emerging which isn't the one they're in. all of a sudden there's a world where trump wins. they don't say suicide comes to people, not from horror stories in their life, but from something completely different than they ever expected was going to happen. they can't take it. it's almost like they can't take the reality of today. i guess i understand it. >> when i started covering hillary clinton's campaign six months ago, i was in brooklyn, and one thing i heard over and over again privately was, we feel an enormous weight to not screw this up. because if we screw up this campaign, then donald trump is going to be the president of the united states. and their view of that was, as you said, very different from what if it was jeb bush or marco rubio. the reality is, they're still sort much remembering this as a forum where what was going on in the campaign. do they have to blame
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themselves? >> you're right. it's a good freudian -- >> the trump and clinton aides also battled over the significance of trump's popular vote loss. that's an argument everyone's having right now. let's watch. >> i would say hillary did win the popular vote. we're talking about a majority -- no, no. just purely factual. oh, god, you guys. >> listen, you guys won. that's clear. you won the electoral cleng. be honest. don't act like you have a popular mandate for your message. >> this is just fighting words here. as you said, ohio state against michigan, they haven't changed. >> but to clinton's point of view, the clinton camp point of view, what's going to end up happening is the pre-election night polling which predicted that hillary would win by two or three points is true. because she didn't win in the right places. from the trump side, look, they were branded as illegitimate,
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that they didn't deserve to be in the race. that trump was something completely outside of politics. so they -- to continue the football analogy, they're spiking it in the end zone repeatedly because after having been told that they didn't know what they're doing, that they didn't deserve to be in politics, that they were unqualified and disruptive in a way we've never seen in american politics before, they won. so what is kellyanne's answer to everything? we won. >> i love your analogy. in a separate panel at harvard also yesterday, trump's former campaign manager is back. had a message -- by the way, the guy that never got paid, he was there, too. we shouldn't have taken everything the candidate said so literally, he said. a new kind of journalism. don't listen to the words, think through what he really meant. let's watch. >> this is a problem with the media. you guys took everything donald trump said so literally. and the problem with that is the
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american people didn't. and they understood it. they understood that sometimes when you have a conversation with people, whether it's around the dinner table, or it's at the bar or wherever it is, you're going to say something, you don't have all the facts to back it up, but that's how the american people live. >> we have to be able to figure it out what the parable meant. if he said something like jesus in the bible, what he really meant was, he didn't mean this, he meant that. how do we report that? >> it's hard to report. and we need to take things literally, because when people are president, their words matter. but i actually think the analysis which i first saw in the article in the atlantic that voters took trump seriously but not literally. reporters took trump literally but not seriously. voters were less consumed when things were demonstrably untrue than -- >> he said obama wasn't really an american citizen.
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he's basically an illegal alien here as an imposter. how do we translate that to what he really meant. >> we're supposed to say, that's not true. but we're also supposed to understand how it's resonating with some voters. >> what is the message he's saying we should report on? >> the message that we should report on is there continues to be an effort by people who are so opposed to president obama they're willing to peddle a discredited theory. >> the problem with that is it allows trump to have it both ways. the guy on the bar stool, i'm going to get off the jesus and compare him with the guy on the bar stool. the guy on the bar stool claiming that's going to be -- that guy's going to be president. no, don't pay any attention to that guy. pay attention to the guy that has the action plan. when trump says he has an action plan to make america great again that he just said in cincinnati, does he mean it? does he mean it? >> he didn't really mean rapist, what is the interpretation,
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we're at the u.n., we've got it translated -- >> the real story here is people are going to go for trump as an instrument to bash the establishment. >> i agree with that. >> no matter what he says. >> i agree with that. you with are there every day. >> in the panel that he made the comments in, one of the republicans ho lost to trump said, look, americans, they didn't care what your policy was. to fix anything or do anything. they wanted to burn the house down and figure out what to do with the ashes afterwards. >> who said that? >> sarah huckabee. >> another quote i thought was great from david kochel of the bush campaign, it was like god zil la walking into the plant and touching the first rail and second rail and -- >> i love the metaphors. but jesus and godzilla, the bar stool is a smart one. coming up, trump's victory rally last night in cincinnati was a sign of things to come for
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the next four years. he spent the night blasting the media, of course, as a way of preemptively discrediting any sort of coverage of his presidency, calling riding the rep. back to that hot fight between the campaign staffs of both donald trump and hillary clinton. the battle of the bands are calling it the "hardball" round table with more on that, why things got so raw last night. it's clear during this transition that trump is relishing the theatrical as specks of the job. actor tim daly is here with us tonight to talk about the presidency and age of reality tv. let me finish with trump watch. tonight, december 2nd, this is "hardball," the place for politics.
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these are very, very dishonest people. >> welcome back to "hardball." that was, of course, donald trump last night attacking the media at his thank you rally in ohio. no thank you to the media. it's been nearly a month since he won the presidency. trump has continued to rail against the mainstream media for wrongly predicting the outcome of the election. trump's number one message is, i told you so. here's what the president-elect had to say last night. >> how about -- i mean, how dishonest -- how about when a major anchor who hosted a debate started crying when she realized that we won.
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how about that. [ cheers and applause ] tears. don't tell me this is true. think of it, we won in a landslide. that was a landslide. and we didn't have the press. the press was brutal. remember, you cannot get to 270. dishonest press. and that person is doing the math. and that person was saying for months that there's no way that donald trump can break the blue wall, right? we didn't break it, we shattered that sucker. >> when in fact trump's continuing the rhetoric of the campaign. now it appears his attacks are a prebuttal against the media for his incoming amrgs's press.
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the kind of press it's going to get. i'm joined by david and al, former chairman of the republican party down in florida. al, it seems to me, it's called riding the ref. whatever you hear from "the new york times," which he maybe fairly despises, would like to see go out of business, whatever you read from there, don't believe it, because they're out there to crap all over me. >> a few conclusions, right? healing the country is not yet a top priority in that administration. and two, this is it. i mean, he wants to make sure that he can talk to the populous crowd in his language, this rally stuff is his elixir, his addiction. i think you'll see more of it. you'll see constantly these rallies to feed the needs he may have. but the optimist in me says, as long as they can govern with the right people in place, i'll live with the aggravation of populous aspects of it. but it won't heal the country.
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the country needs more than that. >> he has no interest in healing the country. he came to prominence pushing a racist conspiracy theory. he ran a campaign of mysogyny, bigotry, and he will gorch, or rule as president in the same way. he according to every fact checker lied so much more than any other politician. he broke the record of all politicians for telling lies. so he doesn't want the media to pay attention to him. he wants to keep, you know, dismissing it which is a play out of the conservative playbook. >> is he trying to destroy the fact checking? he would like to see no-print newspaper. >> sure. >> the newspapers -- >> sheldon -- >> you're just making a joke. >> no, that was -- >> you will -- you will find out that he believed he got his message out in the digital media world. and he believes that you and the
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traditional mainstream media are a nuisance. but he doesn't need you. if he discredits you, he believes he has this other outlet that got him to the presidency. i think at some point in time this -- >> live coverage of his rally helped him a hell of a lot. >> the live coverage, unfiltered, and often unevaluated. particularly in the first few months of his campaign. things that other republicans are shouting at jeff zucker about at the event in harvard last night. he doesn't want to be called on the fact that he doesn't care about that. >> he said he won in a landslide. what does he mean? >> no, if you look at the list of -- >> i think it's like -- i'm not a media critic. at fox they say things we're fair and balanced. everybody knows that's not what they mean, they mean we balance out the liberal media. i get defenders, not a dog whistle, you know what they're really saying. trump talks in this language of, screw you, language.
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>> no, but -- >> they're going to share that. >> they think they won in a landslide? >> i think some of them do. >> oh, come on. >> hey, you can say i won 30 states and more. >> here's your case study, chris. the other day he said millions of people voted illegally in the race. now, that's not true. his campaign cited studies that didn't say that. the people who wrote the studies. and then on cnn yesterday, had this wonderful video, i hate to tout a competitor, in which one of the reporters talked to the trump supporters and said, yes, of course he's right. >> if there were 3 million illegal, i assume hispanic voters that voted in california, for hillary, why didn't they vote for loretta sanchez? why didn't she roll it up? she lost. >> there weren't 3 million illegal people -- >> but you -- this gets back to your question. he said it. his people believe him.
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despite any evidence, they even say we heard it reported on cnn, when it wasn't reported. this is a big challenge for the media. >> his biggest problem is three-fold. one, he's got a shrinking base if he keeps this up. and that's not good for the party. >> older whites. >> number two, he's appointed 80% of his appointments so far have been pretty reasonable people. he's going to get closed in with his own cabinet into being a straighter shooter. or else he can't keep these good people. >> do you think -- >> they're not going to put up with things that are not appropriate. he's going to get closed in by good people. and number three, there's going to be a lot of pressure out there for people seeking reelection, seeking governorships and senate races, and that's going to have another -- >> you're not donald trump. and you never will be. that's a compliment. president-elect trump is signaling he'll continue to use this rhetoric once he's in the white house. here's a look at the way he
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slammed the press during the campaign. >> the biggest rigger of the system is the media. the media is rigged. they're bad people. they're bad people. and they're dishonest people. they don't tell the truth. they don't write the truth. i love it! we just took the press credentials away from the dishonest "washington post." crooked cnn. cnn is so disgusting. cnn. we have a newspaper that's failing badly. it's losing a lot of money. it's going to be out of business very soon. "the new york times." okay? every story they write is a hit job. it is a failing newspaper. third rate people. i'm telling you, third rate people. bad people. sick people. you know what you have to do with the media? you have to bowl your way through it. >> there he is describing his approach. you've got to -- david, what does he mean by that, i'm going
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to bull my way through it? >> you know, donald trump knows no shame. a person who knows no shame is a dangerous person. because if you report these -- that he's lied and made a mistake or doesn't know what he's talking about, it doesn't harm him. he just says, your's wrong and he feels that "the new york times" is sick. the new york times quoigs may be wrong, but they're not sick people. we know people who work at "the new york times." he knows better, too. but he uses his demagoguic language. it goes to turn his base -- >> his predicate is to discredit the press because he knows that he's going to have an ongoing contentious environment. that's all it is. so he's -- >> don't trust the referees. >> that's right. >> this is rigged. in other words, his presidency is going to be rigged. no matter what it says in the paper. but i think he especially hates the print newspaper. not a single newspaper endorsed him. i'm not heard of a single presidential candidate that no one endorsed him.
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>> not enough reporting came from the investigative reporters at a couple of newspapers. that's kind of what he doesn't like. >> he's going to have to contend with facts. the next day after he talks, somebody's going to correct him. >> after the million times on the campaign -- >> the truth will set you free. >> i hope that's true. al, sir, thank you for coming on. david. to the big story tonight, the battle of the bands. the red-hot fight last night between the aides for clinton and trump and the campaign managers. the campaign may be over but there's a lot of anger and bitterness. it's real and it hurts. this is "hardball," the place for politics. the holidays should bring joy. so why are you still putting up with complicated cash back cards? some cards limit where you earn bonus cash back to places they choose...
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deadlocked jurors resume deliberations monday in the trial of former south carolina police officer michael slager. the judge telling them to keep trying for a verdict. he's accused of killing an unarmed black man in a 2015 traffic stop. a sheriff said the shooting death of ex-nfl player knight was a road rage incident. ronald gasser was released from custody without bail. cops saying gasser fired three rounds at mcknight who was standing outside of his vehicle. now, back to "hardball."
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welcome back to "hardball." last night's kennedy school of government usually a civilized postmortem on the election. last night was a bruising blood bath fueled by acrimony and ang ever. at best spraining, at worst cringeworthy. for more i'm joined by our panel tonight, political correspondent for the "washington post." and eli is national political reporter for politico. karen, your strongest memory of last night. you were there. >> i was there. as it so happens, i was seated facing the whole clinton team. and the trump people having their backs to me. and their faces had the exacts same expression every one of them. it was anguish, it was shock. as they looked at the trump people, it was contempt.
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and you sort of saw them working through all those emotions. interestingly enough, the person who was able to take the most clinical look at it was the clinton campaign manager. one of the things that was really overlooked was his description of precisely what went wrong for them in those last few days. how they needed to get over 60% among young people. they only got in the high 50s. he said as a result they lost. he said in the last three days the undecideds completely broke for trump. in part, because of the first comey letter which resurrected the doubts people had about hillary clinton, and the second comey letter which really energized the trump voters. there were a lot of things that happened at the very end. >> i agree. that's why trump dumps all over the polling. he was surprised what happened last weekend. go ahead. >> what i found really fascinating about the discussion was he said that they seemed to
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misread the polls almost. that they recognize that it was a changed election. but what he rode in on was the risky bet. donald trump is a risky bet. they thought if they could convince voters that he would be too risky, that they wouldn't vote for that change. and it ended up being a very big mistake. >> why do you think he made the mistake? what was right that he had wrong? did he miss the fact that he cared so much about -- >> as kellyanne conway saw it, they ran into it that voters thought hillary clinton was completely untrustworthy, and that was more important to voters. and that seems to be -- >> and the rust belt. >> i think what was amazing is the smugness and sanctimony you felt from the trump people. they had all been through the trenches. but after an election, they can kind of put themselves in the loser's shoes and say, this is really hard. not going to rub salt in your wounds. you saw a lot of that last
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night. in terms of gloating, and taunting. especially for a campaign, even if the clinton people could feel the ground shifting over the last week of the election. i don't think the trump people thought confidently they had it in the back. they didn't act surprised last night. they acted like they knew it all along. >> they didn't know they were going to win. >> i'm saying, the amount of celebration and self-satisfaction was really remarkable. >> we won in the ninth round or tenth inning or whatever. >> the pitterness, that's our politics now. >> during the event, the manager of the clinton campaign criticized the media for its coverage of secretary clinton. >> there was a sense that hillary was likely to win this election. and i think as a result of that, a lot of the treatment and the reporting was such that if there was something suspicious on the trump side, it would largely go uncovered. but if there was even the slightest suspicions on hillary
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side, it would be blown up quite a bit. >> there was something that everybody agreed on. which is that they all thought the media had been unfair to their candidate. they were unanimous on this. basically, robby made the point that, for instance, he did not believe that the question of trump not producing his tax returns was prosecuted as vigorously in the media as hillary clinton's e-mails. but to hear it then from kellyanne conway's point of view, she said i had that vomited at me on television every single nights. >> i think we probably as the media gave up on the tax return thing at some point. we were just tired of saying it. theers mail thing got reignited by james comey, two announce ms neared the end. this case is still alive. >> well, exactly. then donald trump was on stage bringing it up constantly about her deleted e-mails. so that was the reason that it continued to stay in the -- >> can anybody here help me with this, to get the last comment on this campaign?
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who was so evil? explain worst case scenario about the e-mail story. what does it say about hillary clinton as a disqualifying factor of her candidacy? >> trump always paints with a broad brush. there was about portraying her as someone who is not truthful, who is careless, who had something to hide. that's it. it was a big broad brush theme. lock her up chapters, everything else. it was all about, you can't trust her. maybe she did something illegal. if we're supposed to take him literally that's what he was saying. the big picture was, she's not trustworthy. from a guy who didn't tell the truth -- >> for the kids, great grandkids, how do you explain to hillary how she messed it up? it's almost like whitewater, it ends up being nothing. these clinton stories are faux scandals. not quite scandals. >> well, the fact is, jennifer palmeri was very emotional to the point of tears almost saying, she thought they made a mistake by legitimizing this as
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an avenue of inquiry. that is the one thing she would go back and do over again. i think it spoke to, this feeling people already had about hillary clinton. >> they just looked for a hook. but when she said -- i think palmeri is a real pro. why did she say last night the mediaecretly didn't like her candate, or hillary bias? i don't see that. >> of course, donald trump saying the whole entire time -- >> i understand that. because he's an outsider. where is the secret anti-hillary hostility? >> it seems to be based on what they were saying they didn't think the moo ed yeah did a good enough job of holding donald trump accountable for a lot of the things that -- >> i think with etalked about it a hundred times here. >> we talked about that quite frequently as well. >> anyway, i still have skepticism whether, where is the "their" in the e-mails. she didn't want everybody to know about their campaign business, and she had all that business to do politically.
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it's not evil. it's political business. she just didn't want it out. why didn't she just say that. it was political business i wanted to keep to myself. >> she didn't have trump's ability to create your own reality. hammer in the narrative. and whether it's true or not -- >> anyway, the round table is sticking with us. i'm learning a lot already. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics.
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welcome back to "hardball." karen, tell me something i don't know. >> i touched on it a bit, and that is the degree to which all the smart guys and their analytics had this all wrong. it was really young people in the end. despite all of clinton's outreach to celebrities and stuff. young people at the end decided to go with third-party candidates. >> that's what robbie said. i'm amaze at that. you didn't hear any pro trump.
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it's just that i don't want hillary. >> barack obama will be giving a big counterterrorism speech at mcdill. this will not be the final policy speech necessarily of his presidency. and it might not be the final domestic trip we'll see him take. but the white house is saying, it will be a final opportunity for him to explain why he took the strategy they did. >> i've got to get an interview with him. we only have a little time left. >> the rally that trump did in ohio last night, that he's going to be doing more next week, a victory tour. because maybe all these conflicts of interest around his presidency, we've been getting questions for who's paying for these rallies. we found out from sources that they thought about, and trump said let's use transition money for it. after deliberation, they decided, no, we don't want any confusion, gray areas. they are using presidential campaign money left over for the rally last night and the rally -- >> the engine is still running. thank you. when we come back, the reality show president, actor tim daly
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and polls have officially opened. what is shaping up to be one of the most dramatic american elections in recent memory. for the first time in nearly 200 years, we may be looking at a deadlock in the electoral college for president. >> i told you, he's not going to lose. he's going to win. today. he's totally going to win in the house of representatives in a couple of months. which makes no sense. >> it's tricky. but evans has alienated a lot of people in his own party. >> we're back. that was a scene from cbs's madam secretary, currently in the third successful season. the real-life madam secretary hillary clinton is a huge fan we're told. the lead actor in the program, tim daly, knows a lot about political drama. come january 20th, donald trump will make history himself becoming the first reality tv star to be elected president. just because he's in the white house doesn't mean he will give
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up on dramatics. this is trump last night. >> we did have a lot of fun fighting hillary, didn't we? right? we will have two simple rules when it comes -- [ booing snflt [ . >> they don't know that hillary lost a couple of weeks ago. they forgot. >> joining me now is tim daly. thank you for coming on. >> thanks for having me, chris. >> i wonder what it was like shooting your latest episodes during november, as in realtime, and it was realtime for you as well-being an american to shoot scenes from a dramatic series about a secretary of state as a woman, a smart woman, and at the same time maybe model it after hillary at the time the campaign came down to a conclusion which
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we never expected. >> well, it was, you know, very interesting, for a lot of people very difficult. i think it was no secret i was a supporter of hillary. and i hillary and i worked for her. little did we know when we were making this political show that our actual political situation in this country would be more dramatic and maybe more farfetched than anything we do on tv. >> that's the truth. i'm wondering. this is still concerning to me, because i still get up in the morning and i go, clinton lost. i don't know -- whether that's more powerful in my head or trump won is still powerful in my head. i had these competing realities. i have a very recent memory of people figuring out, who's going to be ambassador to paris, who's going to be secretary of state in and now all those jobs are in the hands of donald trump.
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that experience, that reality isn't true any more. >> there's an enormous shift in the country, and i think that, you know, it's something that we're going to have to come to grips with. and, you know, as an artist and president of the creative coalition, i think now is the time for artists to really get busy. there's two things we do really well. one is, we cause trouble, we stir up controversy, the other is, we create a lot of empathy. it's time for us to get busy as writers and actors and musicians and reflect back to us, who we actually are as a society. so that we can come to grips with this, and figure out how we're going to move forward. >> do you believe. this is a loaded question, which you might expect from me, tim. when you see those last minute rallies. springsteen is different, he appeals to working people, allentown, youngstown. bon jovi gets on.
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anybody hillary clinton hangs -- do you get a sense when they get together with hillary clinton, in the campaign, that sent a message of inclusiveness? or does it send the message of, we're the winning circle here, you're not in it. i wonder if it doesn't hurt that too much celebrity around you, when you're running for president of the united states. i don't know if it's true, i have a hunch it is true. >> i don't know, i remember eight years ago, there was a big ji among the republicans that barack obama was just a celebrity, and he had all these celebrity friends. meanwhile, the republicans elected arnold schwarzenegger, sonny bono, clint eastwood and ronald reagan who were all celebrities themselves. they were the people that elected celebrities. we have another election of a celebrity now much i dosht really know. what i do know, is that a lot of artists, bruce springsteen included, myself included, come from a place that is not exhausted. you know, people -- most people i know aren't born into a successful career as an actor or
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singer. they come from some place more humble, and they have a success story. much like hillary clinton. and i think it's interesting and ironic, that a billionaire who is born with a silver spoon in his mouth, in the city, managed to somehow connect with the rust belt of this country, people who -- bear a lot more in common with hillary than donald trump. >> how did he do it? >> i really don't know. i think that maybe he -- you know, he made -- look, i think that there are a lot of people in the rust belt and in the middle of this country who are left out, and feel it, and want to be seen and heard. and somehow he managed to make them feel scene. and apparently the other party did not. so -- >> how does the democratic party -- you're a political guy. how does the democratic party
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get back to bobby kennedy, you have a candidate that appeals to the working class and also the african-americans and mexican americans. he was able to do that. how can you do that again? democrats can't do that any more. why not? what are they going to do to fix that problem? >> i don't know, but i think they have to start by talking to everybody. and making sure that, you know, that when we're talking about as democrats, we're talking about being inclusive, that we're inincluding those people that we seem to have left behind. or to ignore for some reason. everybody, if we're going to talk about being inclusive, we have to make sure we include everybody. >> a friend of mine used to say, people don't mind being used, they mind being discarded. i think we have to think about that politically. it's serious business. tim, it's great to have you on, big fan. >> thanks. let me finish with what happened between the trump team
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and the clinton team. it was something.
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the john f. kennedy institute of politics which hosted the forum last night, featuring the trump and hillary clinton campaign managers is usually a more convivial affair. the campaign didn't turn out the way it was supposed to. nobody had reason to believe trump was going to win. not even the top trump people believed he was going to breakthrough the firewall and grab pennsylvania, wisconsin and then michigan, which by then they didn't need. it takes time to realize the world you imagined isn't the world you're leaving in. feelings are raw, for minorities who hated what they heard trump say on his way to winning the election. to women who feel he got away with words that should never be spoken. i can live with a little bitterness after all that, i'm glad to live in a country that
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when confronted with these offenses do more than say ouch and forget about it. that's "hardball" for now, for friday, december 2nd, 2016. thanks for being with us. "all in with chris hayes" starts right now. tonight on "all in." >> i don't want to tell you this. >> billionaires, right wing nationalists and now generals. >> we are going to appoint mad dog mattis as our secretary of defense. >> tonight rachel maddow on the one massive catch in trump's pick for secretary of defense. and the insane implications of trump throwing 40 years of u.s. foreign policy overboard with one phone call to taiwan. the hypocrisy would be really funny if it wasn't so sad. >> bernie sanders on stocking trump's

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