tv Hardball With Chris Matthews MSNBC December 6, 2016 4:00pm-5:01pm PST
action man. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. donald trump will speak later this hour in fayetteville, north carolina. it's the second leg of his self-styled thank you tour to states that helped him win the presidency. it's an unusual spectacle, by the way. a president-elect returning to campaign-like rallies in the middle of a transition. but donald trump has broken the rules and what it means to be president-elect, obviously. anyway, trump, the candidate, promised a presidency full of action, and that's what we've gotten in the weeks since the election, almost on an hourly basis, trump continues to tweet, calling out his detractors, everyone from street protesters
to the cast of "hamilton." he's turned trump tower into a staging ground for the biggest reality show in the country, a daily parade of would-be job applicants and other meal tickets, marching down or up the marble hall to the gold-plated elevator for a meeting with the big man. it's been an odd stew of celebrity, larry king, al gore, mitt romney, bob gates, d.c. mayor, mueller bouzer, laura ingraham, marla maples, a new york mayor, bill de blasio, and wrestling executive, linda mcmahon, just to name a few in this potpourri. anyway, here was trump today, telling the press to get ready for his show. >> we've got some great people coming in today. you'll see 'em. >> what do you talk about with mayor bouser from washington, d.c. today? >> we have a lot of people coming up. a great group of people, doing very well. >> god, it's like ed sullivan in the old days. a really big shoe tonight. trump has also mastered the
spectacle of making dramatic announcements. last week, it was a deal to save $1,000 jobs at the carrier plant out in indiana. today he tweeted his threat to cancel a deal with boeing. here it is. boeing is building a brand-new 747 air force up with for future presidents, but costs are out of control. more than $4 billion. cancel order! that was trump. trump was asked about that earlier today. let's watch. >> well, the plane is totally out of control. it's going to be over $4 billion. it's for air force one program. and i think it's ridiculous. i think boeing is doing a little bit of a number. we want boeing to make a lot of money, but not that much money. >> so what can we make of trump's transition razzle dazzle? nbc's hallie jackson is in fayetteville. and howard fineman is global editorial director for the "huffington post" and an msnbc political analyst. let me go to hallie jackson. what's tonight? what's the show. the defense chief?
the new pentagon chief he's going to put on parade tonight? >> reporter: yeah, the show is james mattis, james "mad dog" mattis. we're in fayetteville. home to ft. bragg. a huge military veterans presence here. it is very intentional that drrp will be appearing with his defense pick. you talk about the razzle-dazzle and the art of making an announcement. it was only a few nights ago, his first stop on the thank you tour in cincinnati that he surprised the entire arena by basically prematurely announcing that mattis was his defense secretary pick in the first place. describing even his aides that were with him, that were thinking he was going to wait until to today to go ahead and make that announcement. he certainly understands the art of a tease, if you will, from his days in the reality show world, i would say. >> what's the reaction to the media out there, to you yourself out there with that crowd? what's the hate level? >> reporter: i think that's a tough one to answer. we haven't seen the president-elect yet doing what he typically does, what he did during the campaign and what he
did in cincinnati, which is point to the media and encourage folks to bobby calling us the dishonest press. there's a little bit of the introspeakers, diamond and silk, a duo that has often appeared, introduced at campaign rallies, were here again tonight and took a few shots. people turned around and booed, but seemed a little less intense than what we saw toward the end of the campaign. >> donald trump came to the lobby of trump tower this afternoon to tout another economic success. he was joined by a japanese business executive, let's watch trump in action here. >> so, ladies and gentlemen, this is masa of softbank from japan and he's just agreed to invest $50 billion in the united states and $50,000 jobs. and he's one of the great men of industry, so i just want to thank you very much. >> thank you. >> thank you very much. >> and if you would like to speak to him, you can. but one of the truly great men.
>> thank you. thank you. thank you so much. >> you may want to say hello. >> yes, thank you. >> i'll see you soon. >> trump did not say what specific investment that japanese company planned to make here in the united states, anyway. i've got to go now to heidi and to howard. action jackson, or something like it. i mean, this guy is going to -- it's like -- i want to say at the end of the show, in the old days, before uber and other ways to get around, taxis in new york. you always listen to wind. the knifing. something there, something happening upper west side. it's constant buzz, buzz, buzz, ping-pong. it seems like that's the kind of presidency he wants to advertise. >> you're just seeing the new season of trump tv. had a certain way of manipulating us during the campaigns, and now there's a new way, which is, don't have any news conferences, don't have to take any questions about some of the hard-hitting investigative journalism that's being done right now about some of the ethical questions surrounding his transition. but, just have a huge media
stakeout, a parade of personalities coming and going, let the speculation go on about who's going to get the rose on secretary of state as well as other positions. and keep us running around, like the sheep that we are. >> just wait for them to come out. guess what i've got. then he disappears. >> it's very midtown, manhattan. >> it is. and that's donald trump. and it's bang, bang, bang, he's always got to be the center of attention. >> well, action does tend to grab our eyes. >> action grabs our eyes. but what i'm interested in more than that is the combination of generals and billionaires that seems to be the stew that he's developing here. and of course, it also has a kind of medieval kingly aspect to it. where people are coming around, from around the world, before the coronation, to offer gifts to the new king.
$50,000 jobs here, from japan. carrier doing this in indiana. and donald trump is stressing his personal power to get these things done. his personal relationship, which is a different, non-legislative kind of leadership. >> let's talk about this billionaire thing. you've met people -- you've met people of enormous wealth and when you meet people of enormous wealth, they seem to keep score by money. if they're a billionaire, they don't like people who are local candy store owner. that's who he trusts, people who have made a lot of money to run our country? >> maybe, but i think you have to look at their philosophy. it's not only that he's stocking his cabinet with millionaires and billionaires, but it's millionaires and billionaires who have a particular world view and view on the markets. and that is to deregulate everything, privatize everything, privatize the social safety net. you just had mike pence saying today they want to block/grant medicaid. the strange thing about the
election, chris, we can all debate whether trump has a mandate to do what he wanted to do in the campaign, the populous platform that he sold. the one thing that there is clearly not a mandate for in this election is to have a establishment republican agenda, which seems to be at least in terms of domestic policy, which is emerging with these cabinet picks. >> well, it's an unleashed establishment agenda. otherwise, this is a hard-core passion to deregulate and allow -- except with the case of trade, except for trade, to lieu the free market -- in the never-ending battle between markets and the state, this is the market run wild. >> hally jackson, you're still with us, i believe. let me ask you about the gold plating of this guy. he seems to like people who are have become sfl, attractive people, if you will. he likes the golden look. i've looked at the cabinet picks he's made. he seems to want everything to look like hit belongs in trump tower. what else can you tell us along those lines of his kind of wealth. i might call it monetary
aestheticism. >> just based on my experience with the president-elect since he's been elected, whatever the aesthetic is, it's playing very well with those who were elected to sit in these positions. we were talking about his cabinet picks. and some of what you just were saying came up a little bit, who he might pick. what if he picks an establishment guy like a mitt romney for secretary of state versus a rudy giuliani? who do you like that he's put in his administration so far? you know the name that came up again and again? it wasn't james mattis or tom price, it was ben carson. maybe that's because ben carson was in the news yesterday or the day before, but a lot of folks like the idea that he was bringing in someone who had been critical of him and who he had been critical of, but had become an ally. i found that interesting. and someone notable if that, again, it wasn't some of these other picks that you would have expected folks to be talking about. i think kbrr right.
i had one source close to the transition tell me, appearance does matter for the president-elect. you know, somebody that would, for example, for secretary of state, have that bearing to be an international diplomat and to represent the united states abroad. >> a casting call. anyway, today president obama defended his administration's counterterrorism approach in a speech down in madille air force base in tampa. let's watch that. >> so rather than offer false promises that we can eliminate terrorism by dropping more bombs or deploying more and more troops, or fencing ourselves off from the rest of the world, we have to take a long view of the terrorist threat. a sustainable counterterrorism strategy depends on keeping the threat in perspective. the terrorist threat is real and it is dangerous. but these terrorists want to cast themselves as the vanguard of a new world order, they are not. they are thugs and they are murderers and they should be treated that way.
>> you know, the world must wonder, guys, about the choice of presidents we make, because we don't have a pattern, you know? there's no theme -- with obama and trump and then one guy sort of sophisticated, long view. the other guy is loud and now! >> well, we do have a pattern, chris. we follow george w. bush, who was seen as reacting to the moment, as a visceral gunfighter. and he portrayed himself as such, at least for the first many years of his administration. we replace the evisceral gunfighter with the cerebral long view of barack obama. now after the cerebral long view of barack obama, we've gone back to the gunslinger, only more so. >> yeah! >> in physics, the pendulum slows, in american politics, the pendulum swings faster and faster. >> heidi, this is mostly what i would call fickle. but i'm not sure. i think we correct every four years from the past eight years, we correct and we sometimes, by
the way, it's getting harder and harder to get re-elected in this country, if you look at these margins. nobody comes in like a big second term anymore. those days are over. >> i don't know that his foreign policy, we know that he has a clear, that the people who elected him had a clear vision of that, because he also cast himself as anti-nation building and as someone who was going to take us out of the middle east. >> nation building is a peaceful answer. i mean, nation building is in part a peaceful answer. >> "the wall street journal" is fantastic. he talked about the fact that the man doesn't have an "ism" is. is it hawkishness or dovishness? here he is. trump could be a post-ideological president. it's nearly impossible to identify clear ideological bent of any kind. it's probably a mistake to try, because the definitions of left and right, liberal and conservative, are being scrambled right before our eyes.
>> well, you know, i think that's true in terms of -- here's the thing, okay? we don't know what his foreign policy is going to be yet. his team is not in place yet, but his domestic policy is coming into price clear focus, chris. you already see, there's a great story today out on how the heritage foundation is going to be kind of the mind behind a lot of his domestic policy. they have very clear views on this stuff, and that's why you hear mike pence already starting to talk about block granting medicaid. they have a clear vision on deregulating the markets, deregulating wall street, privatizing the social safety net. and i think as journalists, we have a responsibility to start to explain to people who voted for trump, in very clear terms, what that means. i had a great conversation with an older journalist today about how many people in america don't even understand kind of the civics, background, behind medicare and the social compact that we created, to stop our poverty among the elder. >> well, i agree completely with heidi, that on foreign policy,
the bluster, we're not sure where he's going to take the bluster. you know, where he's going with nap but i think in domestic policy, you have to say that they're going after -- they're accepting no first principles that have been part of the american social and political compact since the new deal and since the great society, in particular. >> so should poor people be worried, who depend on government for food stamps? >> well, what donald trump -- what donald trump is going to say, what the heritage foundation said going back to 1980, with their first report for ronald reagan, is that there are ways to make the free market serve poor people. this was jack kemp's dream. however, in reality, the fact is that half the american people depend in one way or another on government help and they're going to still need it. i think somewhere in donald trump's mind, he knows that to remain popular, he's got to be careful. but the default setting is going to be privatize, privatize, and
privatize. >> let me ask you a question, with a liberal perspective. why do conservatives believe that the best way to help the rich is give them stuff. tax cuts, more money, give them benefits. and the best way to encourage poor people is cut their programs. hurt the poor, help the rich. >> because they have a fundamental distrust of the role of government. this is -- they're saying, it all gets wasted in government. cut out the middle man and let's have free markets in the extreme. that's their answer. and talk about pendulum swings. they're insisting that a pendulum is going to swing away from the great society and even the new deal. >> what are they -- when are the republicans going to thank obama for tripling their wealth in eight years. haven't they noticed? >> i think this is one of the things that democrats will privately say they're very concerned about, which is they feel that obama has really set donald trump on a great glide path in terms of the fundamentals of the economy. >> nobody thanks him. nobody thanks -- they treat
obama -- >> i'm going to see him at the christmas party tomorrow night and i'm going to thank him. >> the republicans have done very well. hallie jackson, thank you, down in fayetteville, north carolina. ready for the big show tonight. you're all great get guestuests. coming up, the case to reject or not-elect donald trump. argues that trump demonstrates every day he's not qualified for the office. he says this electorate won't cast his troerl vote for trump. he's urging others to do the same, to stop trump now at the electoral college in december. we'll see where that's going. plus, the dramatic fall of chris christie. humpty dumpty had a great fall. he's out of favor with the trump transition team and now he's set an all-time low of job approval. he's looking for a job at the rnc. and we'll continue to keep an eye on the trump victory rally in north carolina, where trump's expected to introduce his chief for defense chief. and let's finish with trump
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well, this is going to be wild. welcome back to "hardball." when the 538 people who make up the actual electoral college meet in washington this month, actually, december 19th, to officially cast their vote for president, one republican electorate among them now says he will not vote for trump. chris supran wrote in "the new york times" today, the lead column, by the way, quote, the
election of the next president is not jet a done deal. electorates of conscience can still do the right thing for the good of the country, presidential electorates have the legal right and a constitutional vote, duty, actually, to vote their conscience. i believe electorates should unify behind a republican alternative. an honorable or qualified man or woman such as governor john kasich of ohio. i pray my fellow electorates will do their job and join with me in discovering who that person should be 15 years i swore to defend my country against all enemies foreign and domestic and i will do it again. >> i'm sure that there are other electorates who are not comfortable with mr. trump, but i'm not leading a movement i'm trying to make sure i have a clean conscience at the end of the day. i think it's the right process to say, we feed to pull an emergency break.
we had 50 republicans who were national foreign policy experts during the campaign who said mr. trump was unqualified for office and a potential dangerous president. and perhaps that's a subjective issue, but objectively, i can look at the emollients clause and say, mr. trump, you're conducting sales calls when you conduct your foreign policy. that is expressly forbidden in the constitution, a danger to our public, and the electoral college is here to do exactly what i think i'm doing, which is standing up and saying no. >> up until now, ever since the beginning of this country, we've had 157 faithless electorates in our electoral college victory and they've never decided a presidential election. probably the most recent example was in 2004, when an unknown minnesota electorate was pledged to vote for jk and cast a presidential vote for his running mate, john edwards, instead thereby voting for edwards twice. many people think it was a simple mechanical mistake by that electorate. michael steele is the former chair of the republican national
committee. who want want john edwards as president and vice president. you've been looking. the reason i want to do this tonight is to begin a little bit of education as to how it works. and here's a guy who said he's not bound. in 29 states plus d.c., where we are right now, you do what you're told under the law or else you pay a fine. i guess you can do that. >> you can. i'm an electorate in maryland. the perks are amazing! but i won't get to cast, because trump didn't win maryland. but it's not a problem. look, i understand principally and ideally where he's coming from. i get it. but you don't have that ability to just kind of willy nilly go into that session and vote how -- >> you do, in texas. because it's one of the 21 states where -- >> well, suppose the president of the united states gets elected. in a universe where anything can happen, and he starts doing jumping jacks, flipping around
like a crazy guy. from the time he's elected, he begins to act certifiable, like a nut. what would you do then in the electoral college? vote for somebody who's setter fiably crazy? what would you have the conscience to do? >> clearly, this guy is suggesting that donald trump is already doing that. however, texas, it should be pointed out, is one of the states that ted cruz won in the republican primary and there are a number of where ted cruz won or other candidates won in the primary and then donald trump won in the general. so theoretically, if we were looking for fertile turf for folks like this electorate to go and recruit other people to vote against trump, even though they're supposed to vote for trump, those would be the places to go. now, we also have democratic electorates who are offering to team up with these republican electorates and not vote for hillary clinton and instead vote for a compromise candidate like a john kasich. so, theoretically, the possibility is there, it's just so, so, so slim. >> here's my thought. whatever we think of trump, and i said, when i'm my best
behavior, mixed bag, very mixed bag, that we all knew what we were getting. this guy wasn't some phantom candidate. he was out there. so the time to get activated if you're on the progressive side of things, on the left, is to get out there and not vote for jill stein. not to say, i don't know who i'm for. vote for hillary clinton. that was the time to do it. if you wanted to vote for another republican, the primaries were your time. there were openings for public opinion in this campaign. and people didn't take them. some of these protesters in l.a., i like protests, they're fine. especially non-violent ones. a lot of the guys in the protest didn't vote. and they're protesting the right of an election they didn't bother to vote in. it doesn't -- it does make sense, you're lazy. you're a bum, i think you are. that's my thought. >> here's the rub on all of this. i get how people feel about it. but at the end of the day, you just made the argument. this was -- this character, this candidate, this individual was not a surprise to anyone in this election. and you had so many opportunities to not have the outcome that we have.
but here we are. so, do you really think that at this stage, that they're going to be that many electorates are going to go to their state capitals or come to washington and go, no. it's just not going to happen. >> why did "the new york times" put this guy's column at the very top? >> because they like to have fun. >> but also, i think there is an effort to use folks like this and the democratic electorates who were volunteering to vote for someone other than hillary clinton to drive a bigger conversation about the electoral college, which is a pretty -- >> oh, you think there's any chance in our lifetime? >> no, i don't think so. >> it takes three quarters of the states. by the way, the little states like idaho like it. i mean, we right now have at least nine electorates going into the vote, saying they're going to vote for someone attorney the person for whom they are bound or supposed to vote for. that's significant. >> anyway, class act from a fellow i like, ohio governor john kasich addressed any electorate who chooses to vote for him instead of president-elect trump. here's what he said. i am not a candidate for president. and asked those electorates not to vote for me when they gather
later this month. our country had an election and donald trump won. isn't it great to hear from a serious person once in a while? >> he says the right thing. look, there's no love lost between kasich and trump, for sure. but i think, instead of egging this on and sort of making -- getting hay out of it, i think the governor did the right thing, the smart thing and say, look, guys, this has happened. regardless of what you think about the electoral college and regardless what you think about the outcome of the popular vote, at the end of the day, donald trump won -- >> i've got some news for jill stein. next time -- i like you as a public vigor, but vote and encourage others to vote for the democratic nominee for president. you'll have more influence than this third and fourth party nonsense. it doesn't work. third parties screw up the results. if you're on the left, help the left win. if you're on the right, same thing. ken vogel, you're a great reporter. and you're a great party chairman. up next, how the mighty have fallen. chris christie, mortally wounded
by bridge great. people think he's the guy who -- he said put the cones out there. maybe he didn't put the cones out there. we're looki ining at the polls . now utterly rejected by his voters back home in engineers pi. this is "hardball," the place for politics. my business was built with passion... but i keep it growing by making every dollar count. that's why i have the spark cash card from capital one. with it, i earn unlimited 2% cash back on all of my purchasing. and that unlimited 2% cash back from spark means thousands of dollars each year going back into my business... which adds fuel to my bottom line. what's in your wallet? tand the alzheimer'sf association is going to make it happen. but we won't get there without you. visit alz.org to join the fight.
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jamie. what are you doing? -i'm being your hype man. not right now. you said i was gonna be the hype man. no, we said we wouldn't do it. i'm sorry, we were talking about savings. i liked his way. cha-ching! talking about getting that moneeeey! talking about getting that moneeeey! savings worth the hype. now that's progressive. governor chris christie, folks, was unbelievable.
thank you, chris. >> despite that fist bump there, i'm not sure he's having a good year. that was president-elect trump on election night thanking chris christie of new jersey for his early and vocal support. two days later, christie was given the old heave ho as he was pushed out as chair of the trump transition team. the president-elect called the governor to tell him he'd become a political liability. that's strong words. and today, there's even more bad news for the governor of jersey. a new quinnipiac university poll has the governor's approval rating at 19%, a record low. a whopping 77% of new jersey voters disapprove of the work he's doing as governor, that's about four out of five. christie has the lowest approval rating of any in the history of quinnipiac poll. how the mighty have fallen. i'm joined right now by an
expert, msnbc anchor steve kornacki. how much personality liability do you take for bringing this guy down, steve? >> how much -- >> you did the bridge story better than anybody else. you brought it to life, brought it to rachel, you brought it to me. you really did an amazing job explaining it, of doing the reporting from a local perspective, and it really seemed to be one of those very small stories, i mean, cones out on a bridge, to being this blastoff of a political career. >> yeah, well, remember the time that that that was the end of 2013, when that was all happening. chris christie had just won re-election in new jersey, more than 60% of the vote. he was, he was seen as the guy who could talk to the republican base nationally and excite them, and connect with them in the way donald trump ultimately did it, but unlike trump, christie was seen as the guy who could also be acceptable to the party elites. at that moment, before that story came out and a bunch of other things, it was not unreasonable to say chris christie was going to be the republican candidate for
president in 2016. >> he came in as a prosecutor and left almost as being prosecuted. the fact that 70-some president of the people now believe that he did now understand and know about the bridge closing as a political getback kind of thing, as a revenge move against a democratic mayor in ft. lee who wouldn't back him for re-election. they believe megyn kelly and all the others witnesses against him. >> and this has been the cloud that just won't go away for him. because, obviously, the legal proceedings just dragged out, really, for years, we're talking about. you finally got those convictions, you know, in the last couple of months. but again, something that started in september 2013 did not work its way through the court system, really, until the fall of 2016, so three years there. the headlines never went away. there were revelations here, revelations there. these numbers for him right now are obviously not good at all in new jersey. but this has been the story for him in hnnew jersey for a long time now. a guy who got re-elected with
more than 60% of the vote just three years ago. voters in new jersey have been sending a message to these polls that they're kind of ready for the christie administration to be done for a while now. >> the first sign of why i didn't like him -- i mean, i liked him as a political figure, i thought they made fun of him for being overrate and that was a great sign of feebleness on the part of the democrats to make a shot at a guy physically like that. and i thought that that's one of the reasons he won. but he got into office, the first thing he did, i'm not going to build that tunnel into new york, where everybody knows there's incredible traffic problems out there. you need infrastructure, and he did it for some thing he's done with the skyline or something, that was the first sign. you're the expert. what was he up to in terms of those kind of policy decisions, that got him -- he lost h popularity, i think because of that. >> canceling that tunnel at the time worked for him. just in terms of the politics of it in new jersey. he framed it, look, the new jersey taxpayers are getting screwed. we're on the hook for too much here. i'm going to stand up. what he framed it as, really,
that moment when he canceled that project, that was at the end of 2010, i believe, 2010, 2011. it was the tea party moment. it was the national republican party was all of the momentum was about spending, about reigning in the size of government, reigning in government spending. and chris christie sort of staged a moment there. the guy is a master communicator. say whatever you want about him, the guy is an incredible communicator. he has a flare for the dramatic. he knows how to simplify things, simplify messages, really get them across, and he picked that as sort of a moment. i'm going to stand up, he said, stand up to barack obama's federal transportation department on behalf of new jersey taxpayers. in that moment, it worked. now, longer term, obviously, already major transportation issues the in terms of getting between new york and new york city, and canceling that tunnel certainly complicated that. and right now it's the kind of thing that's used as a weapon against him. but in that moment, i do think it worked for him. >> traffic's not getting any better. steve kornacki, congratulations on your journalism.
i think you did have a role in this, rachel did too. and i think the fact keeping an eye on these guys, and i do wonder what he really -- i still don't know his role and i'm not going to ask you the answer, because i don't think anybody -- there's a lot of murkiness about the way he went -- but i don't think bridgette kelly was out there working on her own. i've worked in politics. you do what you think the boss wants, the boss sees what you're doing, and it works that way. you don't have to give orders to get control of people under you. and i always think that, as michael dukakis put it, the fish rots from the top. up next, the "hardball" roundtable is coming here as donald trump tries to reimagine his presidency. he bringing out general james "mad dog" mattis minutes from now down at his thank you rally in north carolina. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics.
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carolina. that rally was set to begin a while ago. it comes as a new poll shows the popularity of the deal he struck, apparently struck with carrier. according to a morning consultant poll, 60% of americans view trump more favorably after his negotiations with carrier, and that kept roughly a thousand jobs in the country. that found that trump's overall fairvegt is stuck at 48%, which is virtually the same it was in mid-november. franchesca chapelbers is white house reporter for the "daily mail," and kim gattis covers washington for the bbc. this is an international coverage -- >> and cover for paris as well, not just washington. >> i compared this to riding in a new york cab, the ping-pong of wind news. every single moment, there's something new. trump feels he's got to keep the audience. the japanese $50 billion deal. the carrier deal. taking a shot at boeing, you know, gold plating, saving tax
dollars. >> it's the razzle-dazzle approach. with the carrier deal, i think what he did there was very smart. he shows the people that he can have a quick fix, it feels good, it looks good. it's not sustainable. he can't do that with many more companies. it's a business deal approach to the economy, which is not sustainable in the long-term. but in the short-term, it helps him get more love from the people. >> the average guy or woman out there is thinking, at least the guy's alive. he's doing stuff. there's somebody home. and he's fighting for us. i'm thinking that's what they like. >> back to the point about this being boom, boom, boom -- >> that was my point. she followed up on it. >> oh, well, congratulations. >> did you bring sarcasm with you today? >> a little bit. >> okay, hold it to yourself. >> as more details of the carrier detail emerged, like how the carrier union boss came out today or yesterday to say that donald trump lied his butt off about the deal, the number of
jobs saved, the number of union jobs was actually significantly lower than what donald trump and his transition team had come out and said, this is another example of how the razzle-dazzle -- >> so you think it's funny? >> part of it is, and part of it is spin. and this was a stunt. and a very popular -- >> should he have done nothing? >> not nothing, but it certainly is a stunt that he doesn't -- >> what's wrong with saving non-union jobs? >> well, then every company in the country wants to do the same for them. >> there's nothing -- >> right. >> unless you -- >> so -- >> but if you say you saved a thousand jobs and it's really 700, that's a lie. >> it's better that be zero. >> but the issue is this cannot be replicated with every country. it's about incentives and threats of retribution. and that is not economic policy in the long-term, as what it does is it makes people feel
good in the short-term, but that is not sustainable. >> so this is why the white house has said that in order to match president obama's record on jobs, president trump would have to make one of these carrier deals, essentially, two times every single week in his presidency. so as you were saying, that's not necessarily sustainable. we're seeing -- >> who's saying this? >> this was the white house that was -- >> so they're challenging this guy? >> they're challenging him saying, you would have to do two of these a week. you're talking about sustainable. it's maybe potentially easy for him to have a couple of these razzle-dazzle ideas a week right now, but to continue to do that through four years of his president would be very difficult. >> in a speech today, president obama said the only way for terrorists to win is if this country loses sight of its own values. let's watch that. >> these terrorists can never directly destroy our way of life. but we can do it for them if we lose track of who we are and the values that this nation was founded upon. in this fight, we have to uphold
the civil liberties that define us. terrorists want us to turn on one another. and while defeating them requires us to draw upon the enormous capabilities of all of our governments, we have to make sure changes in how we address terrorists are not abused. >> is he talking to trump? i mean, he's a gentleman, but he's still talking to trump, it seems. >> sure, at a certain point, he laid out five things that he thought the next administration should follow up and focus on and that's when he mentioned civil liberties as one of those things. he did spend a significant amount of time in the speech laying out his counterterror strategy and why he did the things he did and defending his legacy and essentially saying, look, even if i had left troops in iraq, hadn't taken them out, we might still be in this situation because of the issues that were happening in iraq with the government and social media and things like that.
>> let me ask you about guantanamo. because this has been a bugaboo for the president. and it's the old problem some nimby, not in my backyard. the congressmen would never allow them to move the prisoners. some of them are in this murky area, they're not quite provable in civilian courts, but we know they're dangerous. >> sure. and president obama said in a speech, basically on his way out the door that guantanamo, even though his excuse for this is congress wouldn't allow me to close it, and because of this, this is an ongoing stain on our nation's character. who i don't think that very many people at the aclu or amnesty international are feeling optimistic about what malek donald trump would do about guantanamo, but back to the -- >> probably pack it fuller. pence says more. >> well, mitt romney back in, i think even 2008, the primary, who i think we can all agree is significantly more moderate, shall we say, than donald trump, said that we needed to double
guantanamo. so we'll see what happens. >> it's the pendulum that keeps swinging, that you were talking about earlier in the show as well, about american approach to foreign policy, international affairs, and to dealing with trich. and are we going back to the days of the george w. bush administration, that ryed to throw everything at, you know, militants and terrorists out there. but that, that, you know, aggravates the problem in many ways. it doesn't necessarily solve it. and 15 years into several wars against al qaeda and now against isis, you know, those wars have not been won. so clearly, there needs to be a new approach. i'm just not sure that the new approach is the one that we believe donald trump will adopt from everything we're hearing from him and some of the people he's surrounding himself with. i think that going at it with all the fire works that you have, you know, making the sand glow in the dark, as one other candidate had said, that only
feeds the fire. and i think that's not as a sustainable long-term solution. >> president obama said in his speech today on terrorism, that methods like waterboarding, which constitute torture, undermine our national security. that's a point he's made and he made it again today. >> staying true to our traditions as a nature of laws advances our securities as well as our values. we prohibited torture, everywhere, at all times. and that includes tactics like water boarding and at no time has anybody who has worked with me told me that doing so has cost us good intelligence. >> so we're going to have a dump difference in administrations. >> you asked before if he was pe speaking to donald trump. the incoming administration has suggests they would like to bring back waterboarding. >> where's "mad dog" on this? >> well, he's staunchly
anti-torture. >> but his incoming cia director, mike pompeo, is assuming that the senate confirms him has suggested that he would be in favor of bringing back waterboarding. it's more important what donald trump thinks about this. because that would be the policy that they are pursuing. and he has suggested that he would like to bring it back. >> but there is also difference of opinion within the intelligence community itself, and also the cia, where officers and people working within there have straight-up said, we will not do it if you tell us to. you will have to bring your own bucket. president trump will resign over this. but it's -- this torture issue is a very important point, because you flash back to 2008, when barack obama was first running for president. both he and john mccain ran against torture. euphemistically branded as enhanced interrogation, as if that's supposed to make it sound better. it's straight-up torture. and donald trump ran and won on a torture platform, saying, let's waterboard them even if we
don't get anything out of them because they deserve it. >> he met with mattis and mattis told him, there's no information i couldn't get from someone by just sitting down and having a chat. and mr. trump was impressed by that. and going to a chat. and mr. trump was very impressed with that. will it be flynn, mattis or pompeo. >> it's still up in the air. anyway, the roundtable is sticking with us. as we wait for trump to take the stage in north carolina, fayetteville, these three will tell me something i don't know. afoot and light-hearted i take to the open road. healthy, free, the world before me, the long brown path before me leading wherever i choose. the east and the west are mine. the north and the south are mine. all seems beautiful to me.
so we know how to cover almost almoanything.hing, even a rodent ride-along. [dad] alright, buddy, don't forget anything! [kid] i won't, dad... [captain rod] happy tuesday morning! captain rod here. it's pretty hairy out on the interstate.traffic is literally crawling, but there is some movement on the eastside overpass. getting word of another collision. [burke] it happened. december 14th, 2015. and we covered it. talk to farmers. we know a thing or two because we've seen a thing or two. ♪ we are farmers. bum-pa-dum, bum-bum-bum-bum ♪
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actually discussed this in 20 years, though. >> with all of the noise and the in depth reporting around stephen k. bannon, donald trump's incoming white house chief strategist, one thing that gets overlooked is his quirky screenwriting past which included the works of shakespeare including a hip-hop shakespearean musical set during the l.a. riots and titus set with space creatures. >> i'm back from beirut. i found reaction to the election of donald trump in the middle east actually fascinating. beirut, what i heard was of course hillary clinton wouldn't have won. america would have never allowed america to be ruled by a woman, they're too conservative for that, too misogynistic. the other was from saudi arabia after richard spencer held his victory heil trump celebration next to the white house, this saudi prince tweeted, america, we need to talk about your
radicalization problem. >> radicalization. so this theory about america being misogynist. i'm open to all theories. but where was that in the polling going up to the election? >> i'm not sure that i actually saw any polls about that. >> no, i mean, hillary was winning in most of the polls all the way to the end. >> yeah, but the conclusion in beirut was that -- >> was that their projection over there? how many women leaders do we have in the middle east right now? >> not that many. but you have women leaders in countries like pakistan. >> speaking of the harvard panel last week, too, and kellien conway said perhaps america is not ready for a woman. perhaps america is just not ready for this woman. >> back to the misogyny point, you didn't have to look far in this election to find a lot of misogyny. >> as an arab woman i've had to deal with more sexism in america than in some parts of the middle east. >> i was in a month ago and
telling everybody don't worry, pennsylvania will be the firewall. it's not going to happen. it did. because in the suburbs men and women both voted less for hillary than we thought they were going to. we thought the suburbs would own them. >> it's not just men who commits misogyny. >> of course. there are issues like right to life people voted against hillary on that issue, that trump was able to perhaps exploit but he did it effectively. he raised that issue in the burbs. he found an isolation on where to go with his visits. which is smart. hillary was taking it easy with one or two events a day. this guy was doing five or six. it was a better run campaign. she won the debates, she won the money, the tv ads, the ground game, she won everything but the trips. thank you. and now it's time for trump watch for this tuesday, december 6th, 2016.
the president-elect is out there, as i said, on a thank you tour that should fill most of the days before christmas. it should also give him what he seems to need most, what his people seemed to respond to the most, action, moving around and stirring up big rallies is what he and his managers believe created the juice for his upsets. what got him going on the way to victory in ohio and then florida, showing up, proving woody allen's old line turns out to be once again true. it's certainly true of journalism i've noticed. if you look at trump's schedule heading into election day he turned on the steam hitting far more stops and far more important areas in electoral votes than hillary clinton. he won the debate, she did,y sh raised the most money, as i said, she had the best ground game, the best tv ads. trump's rallies did a better job of juicing up excitement and making the connection where the decisive electoral votes were. here's trump heading into the inauguration doing the same thing, showing up, juicing up his fans, putting on a show.
for him clearly this show must go on. this will be the next four years? maybe. continual appearances, relentless rah rah, showbiz without stop. like riding in a cab in new york city living to the local win radio, that's the call letters, from downtown brooklyn to the upper west side, news, news, news, crash, boom, bah. news by the hour, by the minute. just like in a city that never sleeps. this seems to be what's working for trump and his legions. so what do you think? will this be enough to keep this country enthralled. can he keep all the balls in the air or drive us nuts? that's "hardball" for now. "all in with chris hayes" starts right now. >> tonight on "all in" -- when president-elect rallies in north carolina as the current president delivers a farewale address to troops.
>> we are a nation that can criticize a president without retribution. >> tonight, the warning from the president that reads like a rebuke to his successor and the lingering concerns about trump's national security adviser after his son was fired in the wake of pizza-gate. >> i think that's the appropriate decision for us to move forward, avoid any further distraction. >> plus -- >> now they're keeping actually the numbers over 1100 people. >> a week later trump's job claims aren't holding up amid new concerns about a populist bait and switch. exclusive new data on how damaging fake news was to the election. and the movement to help elec r electors bail on trump. >> the electoral college is here to do exactly what i think i'm doing which is standing up and saying no. >> when "all in" starts right now. >> all right. good evening from new york. at this hour donald trump is hosting his