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tv   MSNBC Live  MSNBC  December 12, 2016 3:00pm-4:01pm PST

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house and both chambers of congress for the first time in over a decade. time will tell if trump, paul ryan, and mitch mcconnell will see eye to eye on what should make up a united republican agenda. that's all for tonight. we'll be back tomorrow with more "mtp daily." ari melber picks up our coverage right now from new york. hello, i'm ari melber. 6:00 p.m. on the east coast. you are watching "msnbc live." bipartisan blowback from trump as calls grow louder for a real investigation into the russian election hack. will congress also probe trump's financial ties in russia? also, trump won the electoral college, but they have not actually voted for him yet. today the clinton campaign joining calls for electors to learn more intelligence about russian espionage before they formally lock america into four years of trump. also, how real is the trump rally on wall street? and is the president-elect picking winners and losers, all
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with the stroke of a tweet. we begin with the top story in washington today, which is also obviously the top story in moscow. leaks that the cia determined russia not only hacked american interests, which was nobody, but that the kremlin's specific goal was to elect donald trump. this is a story that is bigger than partisan politics, because if our adversaries can effectively distort american elections, it's bad for america no matter who wins. that seems pretty obvious, but it's a basic point that has eluded trump so far, who has mostly responded leaks as some kind of effort to merely discredit his victory. >> why would the cia put out the story that the russians wanted you to win? >> i'm not sure they put it out? i think the democrats are putting it out, because they suffered one of the greatest defeats in the history of politics in this country, and frankly, i think they're putting it out and it's ridiculous. we have to get back to making america great again, which is what we're going to do. and we've already started the
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process. >> let's stop right there. it is a fact that the intelligence agencies reported on russian's hacking. donald trump is wrong about that. the agencies have their information wrong, there's nothing sacrosanct about the conclusion of a government agency. but it's simply false for trump to say this is the work of partisan democrats. also quite frankly, it makes him look out of the loop. we'll show you, here's the public threat assessment of the dni from february. warning that russian cyberoperations are likely to target u.s. interests to support military and political objectives. they also wrote in february russian cyberactors who post disinformation on commercial websites might speak to online media as a way to influence public discourse and create confusion. and of course, the u.s. government publicly accused russia of hacking in october, and that is why among many reasons so many republicans are
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breaki breaking with trump. it's obvious the russians hacked into our campaign. while the top democrat in the senate is calling for a real inquiry. >> obviously, any foreign breach of our sovereign security measures is disturbing and i strongly condemn any such efforts. i agree with senator schumer, chairman mccain, burr, and others, this simply cannot be a partisan issue. >> so trump's effort here to blame the democrats for putin's work is running into a republican roadblock. trump's instinct to deflect and defend on the russian controversy even has some asking if there's something more at stake than the legitimacy of his campaign victory. are trump's business ties to russia clouding his judgment? trump has said he has zero investments in russia, but his son and the current executive vp of the trump organization says russia is actually an oversized part of the trump organization.
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saying, quote, russians make up a pretty disproportionate cross section of a lot of our assets. we see a lot of money pouring in from russia. this controversy is brewing at the same time trump is preparing a big announcement this week about how he'll end conflict of interest between his company and his presidency. and the russia questions question looks like a good place to start. joining me now is senator richard blumenthal, democrat from connecticut and a member of the armed services committee. thank you for joining. senator mcconnell is saying along with many people in both parties there should be a full investigation. what do you think that inquiry should do and should it include a look at potential financial conflicts or ties between donald trump's companies and russia? >> this investigation ought to be bipartisan and clearly there's bipartisan agreement that clear and convincing evidence mandate a congressional investigation.
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and possibly a commission to be established, legislatively, to focus on the criminal cyberattack on the united states. let's be very clear. what happened here was cyberespionage, directed at our democracy, and a violation of our criminal law. the computer fraud and abuse act let to indictments of five chinese military officials, just last may. what happened here is even more egregious. and this commission or select committee ought to investigate that violation of our criminal law. put aside donald trump's complicate conflicts of interest which are deeply disturbing and likely disruptive to him performing his duty. but this investigation is about a conscious, purposeful effort to disrupt our democracy in violation of our criminal statutes. and that's why this investigation ought to be prompt, vigorous, aggressive,
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using subpoena power, classified evidence, as well as open source information. and it ought to be as quick as possible. >> so you think it should look at the conduct and the motive, but not the financial questions? >> the financial question is a subject that ought to be investigated, but perhaps not as a part of this particular investigation. the reason is that we're talking here about criminality on the part of russia and the need for a better policy to deter and defend against this kind of cyberattack in the future. right now, our policies on cyberattack are quite bluntly, very lacking and flawed. and we need in a broader sense to make sure -- >> senator, when you say our policies are lacking and flawed, are you referring then to the current administration? they've been in charge eight years. you mentioned the indictment of some chinese hackers, including chinese military officials. that was the first time that happened. some called it aggressive. but are you saying the obama administration hasn't gone far
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enough? >> there need to be better policies to deter this kind of attack. and it should not be, in this investigation, a relitigation of the election. it ought not to be partisan. there should be a forward-looking investigation that goes into all the facts, relentlessly and tirelessly, and objectively, without partisan favor. >> and as my final question to you, what should be done with the result of that investigation when you have an incoming president, who doesn't agree there's a problem and is basically discrediting and impugning the intelligence officials who have done the analysis. so there's no reason to believe the result of this investigation would get executive action in the current mix. >> well, that's why -- and that's an excellent question. it has to be transparent. ultimately, there must be some public disclosure, fair and full, of all the results of this investigation. and there ought to be, frankly, criminal action against the
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russian officials. and we now have evidence that high-ranking russian officials were involved. who perpetrated and purposefully interfered with our democratic process. those criminal indictments are every bit as important, assuming the evidence is there, as the indictments against those chinese military hackers who went into american corporations. >> senator richard blumenthal, thank you. >> thank you. >> i want to bring in david priest. he wrote "the president's book of secrets," as well as jonathan adler, msnbc analyst and daily beast columnist. david, i want to start where the discussion with the senator ended, because there is a big roadblock here, if your incoming administration says "there's no problem whatsoever." take a listen to john bolton, who is known to be in the running here for the trump administration on some of the accusations he's made. >> it's not at all clear to me,
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just viewing this from the outside, that this hacking into the dynamic and the rnc computers was not a false flag operation. >> are you actually accusing someone here in this administration of trying to -- or in the intelligence community, of trying to throw something? >> we just don't know. but i believe that intelligence has been politicized in the obama administration to a very significant degree. >> david, your thoughts on that charge? >> yeah, he's putting quite a charge out there if he's implying that either president obama or the cia engaged in this activity for some reason. one thing he probably knows well is that any covert action by the central intelligence agency is undertaken at the direction of the president. there are no cia covert actions. they are the president's covert actions, with assigned binding. so in a sense, by asking, who knows what happened? we don't know wanted. he is pointing a finger at the president for authorizing a covert action against the united states itself.
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that's a very serious charge. >> and one he offered no evidence for. and this is someone in the running for the trump administration. i mean, where are we? i think there's plenty of room for assertive oversight and even rebuttal of cia findings. ideally, the cia is supposed to produce the intel and the administration makes the decisions. but this seems like something more from this transition team. is that your assessment? >> well, there's still a lot of confusion about many aspects to have the transition team. we know that donald trump is getting occasional intelligence briefings, about once a week, and he has said some positive things. look, i'm an optimist, i try to look for the silver lining. and donald trump has said there are some very good people giving him these briefings. previously, he called them experts. so even while he's disparaging the analytic judgments they're turning out, there's still that bridge that hasn't been burned. what we don't know is how the rest of the trump national security team that's shaping up will be getting the intelligence themselves to inform him. will they be filtering it as well or taking it and having discussions with him based on
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those discussions. >> here's trump talking about those very briefings. >> i just want to ask you about your skepticism about the intelligence community. you are getting the presidential daily brief -- >> yes. >> -- only once a week? >> well, i get it when i need it. >> but is there some skepticism -- >> first of all, these are very good people that are giving me the briefings. if something should change on this point, immediately call me. i'm available on one minute's notice. i have to be told -- you know, aisle a smart person. i don't have to be told the same thing in the same words every single day for the next eight years. >> i want to bring in jonathan alter. you're, like, a smart person. >> i don't say that on tv. >> he's envisioning a dial-a-friend approach to the briefings. that's not typically how it's done. >> it's another example of how he's incompetent, ill-prepared
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to be president, and not curious enough to become a decent president. you need to be steeped in the threats of the united states if you're going to preserve, protect, and defend our country, as he's going to take an oath to do. so he's basically saying he's going to subcontract the defense of the united states against lots of threats that are out there to his vice president, that he's only going to -- only bother manye if the house is ab to burn down. i don't want to know about the arsonists who might be out there. and you know, it's alarming. what is encouraging today is that the congress seems to be stepping up to some of its constitutional responsibilities, instead of just laying down for donald trump and apeepeasing hi. so we are going to learn this was a tainted election by the time this is over. and we'll be in for four years of dysfunctional government and a constitutional struggle between the branches. i hope that the senate rejects some of the nominees who are
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clearly, you know, making these kinds of false accusations. >> what do you mean? what is the significance when you say "tainted election"? because this is a big world with a lot of noise, anytime we hold an election, there were allegedly crimes committed, which matters a great deal. but in your view, are you questioning the outcome of the election, jonathan? >> well, there's nothing that -- it's not going to be stopped and the electors will vote for trump on december 19th. but i think it's important for president obama to take all of the electors, bring them to washington, give them security clearances, which he's entitled and powered to do, and have them look at this information. >> you think it's serious? >> it's deadly serious. it's not likely to change the outcome. not at all. it's not going -- it's not going to change the outcome. but what it will do is put down an historical marker, saying that this was a compromised, tainted election. it's very important that this just not be another news story
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that goes by. another commission, another report. we need to understand, not just what happened, but we need to mark for history that this was tainted and that will reinforce the point that donald trump does not have a mandate for radical change in this country. >> powerful words. and that's a story we're following. we have an elector on the show later this hour. david priest, final question to you, though. walk us through the mind-set of the cia here. this is an agency that it seems like is getting hit from all sides every couple of years. they're supposed to be tough, they're supposed to be nonpartisan. but i'm hard-pressed to think. you would have to go back to the church committee or some of the real allegations of abuse to think of a time when you had an incoming administration that looked this constitutionally skeptical, if not downright disrespectful of the agency. >> yeah, there's never been a president who agreed with everything the cia provided. that is the right of the president and any other senior policy maker to disagree with the assessments given.
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this kind of public disparagement of the assessments is unusual. you have to go back to richard nixon to find someone who loathed cia analysis this much. but there is one difference from that time. richard nixon did not even bother to take an intelligence briefing during the transition. he didn't bother to read the pdb at all during the transition. at least donald trump is doing that. there's the hope that some bridges can still be built here, but it's going to be a hard construction effort, that's for sure. >> david, i know you said earlier, you're an optimist. optimists don't usually look at the nixon precedent, but you mean he's doing slightly better than that. thank you both for joining me tonight. up next, the story jonathan was just speaking about. could the electoral college block trump? and today why the clinton campaign and its officials are getting involved with regard to its security briefing. also, nbc reporting that ceo rex tillerson could be tapped for secretary of state and it could be a very tough confirmation process. what some powerful republicans are saying about his ties to
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whether you like it or not, the electoral college is the last stop in every presidential election. and sometimes it means the candidate who received the most votes doesn't win the electoral college. we know that. it's the case this time around. but it is getting a little different this time. a small group of electors now pushing to stop trump. they went to court today trying to overturn laws in colorado that would bind their votes to state results. and then another ten sent this open letter demanding a further intelligence briefing on this russia hack story before they cast their formal vote, making donald trump president under our constitution. now, that unusual call got a shot in the arm today, by none other than what is left of the hillary clinton campaign. john podesta, former chairman of that campaign, calling the screpancy between the popular vote and the electoral college an effort to undermine the bedrock of our democracy and
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saying this briefing should take place. joining us now, someone in the eye of the storm, one of the electors behind the open letter, christine pelosi and daughter of house minority leader, nancy pelosi. what do you want to achieve here and is this merely a prelude to trying to stop trump? or do you think regardless of what happens, there is value to this briefing? >> ari, i think it's very important that as a member of the electoral college that i know that the election was free and fair and i know any information that our intelligence community as to whether or not the election was tainted by foreign intervention. so a group of electoras and myself vesent out a letter toda that many people across the country are in support of, that asks director clapper to give us a briefing of the facts. i would like to see much of the information that we read about,
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about russian meddling on the behalf of donald trump to be declassified so all american people can find out about it. and to the extent we must protect our sources and methods in the intelligence community, of course we would want what they call a day pass to get a security clearance, temporary, so we can take a look at some of this information and we don't all have to go to washington, as jonathan was mentioning. we could just go to a local secure facility in our area, a military base or an fbi office, and receive the information in advance of monday's vote. i think it's my constitutional duty as a member of the electoral college to find out whether there was undue influence on our presidential election. >> and we'll put the map here up on the screen, when it comes to electoral college. you need 38 people to change their vote. that is a possibility in the realm of possibilities. it is, by all accounts, experts we've spoken to, highly unlikely. but it's not done yet, so it's not impossible. is the is it your goal, plain
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and simple, that the intelligence results you get would move 38 people? do you think that's possible? >> my goal is to find out whether or not it's true that donald trump and vladimir putin conspired to swing the election. >> and if they did -- >> or if vladimir putin conspired to swing the election to donald trump? >> and if they did? >> i want to know what the facts are. i can't pre-judge a briefing that i haven't received. but news reports that republicans were hacked and democrats were hacked, but only democratic e-mails were read, drip, drip, drip, every day for months, in what ended up being a voter depression strategy that aided donald trump, that is election tampering. and that, if we know about it, if we, the american intelligence agencies know about it, then we the american people should know about it, too. >> and then -- >> so my primary goal -- >> i'm not trying to interrupt you. but i want to be clear, on the record. this is the countdown, a few days left. your view is, if that were the case and you learned that, that you think 38 or more electors
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should move over and make hillary clinton, constitutionally, the president? >> i think that the electoral college has agency, each of us ought to look at the facts and make the best decision for the country. we have to be patriots first. that's why we were chosen as electors. and i think people need to start doing that patriotic duty by finding out the information. they should declassify as much as they can, as quickly as they can, so that we can all make an informed decision. >> and what do you say? you know this comes up a lot. what do you say to people who say, even if you might be right in this case, or even if this were an extraordinary circumstance, you would be moving towards a precedent whereby an electoral college revolt could overturn the result of any election. this one happens to be topsy-turvy, because you're now trying to get the person into office that got more votes. but the reverse could also happen under a precedent like this? aren't you concerned about setting that kind of precedent if all those ifs came through?
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>> i'm concerned about the precedent that russia swung the election to their preferred candidate for president. i'm concerned about the precedent that the founders we're talking about, when the federalist papers were written, and hamilton said that we have to be concerned about undue influence in our election. so this has been a concern that's been with us since the beginning of our country and it's a concern that we should always guard against with every constitutional measure, including the electoral college. >> christine pelosi -- >> so the precedent isn't me, it's them. >> christine pelosi, i appreciate you spraexplaining y line of thought. this is a week from tonight, so we'll be checking back with you. >> we just made a little change to our show and added a guest to the next block. that's because there's some breaking news about a broken promise from donald trump. it has to do with his conflicts of interest. we will give you the update with the reporter who broke this story on the other side of this break. you're watching "msnbc live."
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we have some breaking news on the trump transition, the conflicts of interest that have engulfed many of the stories this week. donald trump canceling the news conference he has loudly promoted and tweeted about. it was scheduled for this thursday and he said he would explain how he would avoid conflicts of interest with his business dealings while president. now they're saying it will be resclulr rescheduled, but with two weeks' noti notice, we can't even say that. it has been canceled. why does this matter? >> he was, of course, facing growing criticism on capitol hill, not just from the left, but also from conservatives. and he had promoted this as something that would happen on thursday. now, the senior trump transition sources that i'm speaking with tell me that he does still plan to make an announcement, ahead of inauguration, some time in january. they told me that this is a multi-billion-dollar company. he wants to think this through
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carefully, but he also wants to focus on filling out the remainder of his cabinet. i'm anticipating a secretary of state pick, even tomorrow, even more likely, wednesday. >> if he wants to think it through carefully, why did he pick an arbitrary day and announce it before he had a plan ready ready? i mean, doesn't business and the presidency both take some advance planning skills? >> the reporting we've done at bloomberg led us to the conclusion this is an ongoing internal discussion within the trump transition team. he's relying on a mixture of inside and outside counsel, as well as don mcgan, the lawyer he appointed to be his white house chief counsel. this is going to be something that he has to address some time before inauguration, but clearly, we're going to be talking about this for quite some time. >> yeah, last question is, did you get any indication at whether he is looking at the big
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question of divesting himself? because all the experts we've spoken to in both parties, everyone who's looked at this said, you're either getting paid or you're not. that's the question. >> ari, i put that question directly to my senior sources, and they said that they were not able to commit to anything right now in terms of what he's going to do. and that all options right now are on the -- >> very interesting. kevin cirilli's scoop there, so hot the cameras may have shorted out. anyway, he rushed to get in front of the camera for us. thank you to kevin. next up, our show continues. we'll dig into the apparent russian hacking here in the presidential election. and the trump market rally. is it too good to be true? marvel studios. we are very much hands-on producers. if my office... ...becomes a plane or an airport the surface pro's perfect. fast and portable but also light. you don't do this 14 hours a day, 7 days a week for... ...decades if you don't feel it in your heart.
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well, both parties today have discussed outrage about russian interference in the u.s. election. one of trump's top cabinet candidates for secretary has ties to russia. rex tillerson has made him many deals there and he earned a friendship award. some hawks already questioning why a putin ally should get the top spot at foggy bottom. >> it's a matter of concern to me that he has such a close personal relationship with vladimir putin. >> when he gets the friendship award from a butcher, frankly, it's an issue that i think needs to be examined.
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>> mccain's foreign policy adviser said if he received an award from the kremlin for friendship, we're going to have some talking. and marco rubio added, being a friend of vladimir's not an attribute i'm hoping for from a secretary of state. sharp words there. here's why this matters. the secretary of state is one soft president's most important appointments. it's the first cabinet officer in the line of succession. if something happens to the president and vice president. it's america's representative in diplomacy over both war and peace. and according to some republicans, the debate over this post is at least at risk of turning into a proxy battle over trump's recurring overtures to putin. a battle with high stakes, as washington tries to figure out just how far those russian hacks went and what america should do about it. joining me now is ellen mcshooems. she broke more than one story. and marcy wheeler, independent journalist and longtime blogger
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specializing in national security law. two excellent experts here. ellen, let me start with the tillerson question. does that get wrapped up in the fight and are these fair questions to ask a potential nominee? >> i certainly think they're fair questions and the degree to which this will figure into the fight is still yet to be done. right now, i think what many in congress and the public want to know is really to what degree russia did interfere in the election, what were their true motives, and what, if anything, really did their influence and interference actually accomplish? >> and marcy, you've been writing about that and you're a student of many of these i've interagency battles in the past. you put out a note of caution from an informational perspective, not based on rooting for one outcome or another, but you basically with regard to all of these different assessments wrote, the language that intelligence agencies reached a consensus view is a
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term of art. it's an opportunity for agencies which may have differing theories of what happened here to submit their footnotes. and you add, the fbi doesn't back the consensus view, at least according to some of these reports. so where does that leave us now several days into this story with the leaks going back and forth? >> well, with i think the important thing is that on friday, before ellen's great scoop, which was really important, president obama had come out and said, we're going to have an assessment of what actually happened, and then in response to that, we have a story where we get the cia's side of the story, and varying discussions and i think ellen can address how she described them. but varying discussions about whether it was consensus, whether there were small disagreements, because after the story on friday, i think the assumption was, everyone believed the cia, everyone in
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government believed the cia, and i think we've learned since then that the fbi has either other questions that the cia has or just a different way of approaching the issue that, you know, that we should, at least, pay attention to, because that's the entire point of doing the review that president obama ordered. >> right. ellen, speak to that. in putting it very simply, there's all the evidence that this criminal hacking ocurd. and those are things that happened. and then there's this wider intelligence gathering debate over why those things happened. and your reporting suggesting that over time, the why has gotten sturdier and centered on an explicit goal to help trump, but that is not necessarily how everyone sees it? is that right? >> that's right. so, over time, the cia gathering evidence and observations and
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analyzing them has come to the view, and ts is after the election, by the way, that, in fact, russia's alaskas were aimed not just at sewing discord or undermining confidence in the integrity of the outcome of the election, but also, in fact, to influence the outcome in favor of trump. and part of their assessment, my colleagues are reporting, is that the -- a considerable amount of effort was spent on targeting the democrats and individuals associated with the clinton campaign, far more so that be the efforts on the republican. >> let me ask you, the million dollar question on that is, from an investigative view, that is a circumstantial argument based on the reason for that targeting. a counterargument might be, they were targeting the people that were likely to win and be in power in government pip mean,
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what do your sources tell you goes beyond just the circumstantial evidence for the level of confidence that this was to elect trump? >> right, and we're still trying to report this all out. there have been some reports that, for instance, the russians targeted and actually penetrated the systems of the republican national committee, but did not -- and stole data, but did not leak it. now, however, that is actually not a consensus view. there are others who dispute that. and so, that part is just not clear at all. in fact, there are some in the intelligence community who aren't sure at all. who say there have been -- there is consensus that the rnc was targeted, has -- was probed, maybe, even, but there's absolutely no consensus that e-mails or material was stolen and then sat on. >> right, and some of what
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you're referring to becomes cyber terms of art about probing and a hack versus what's released. because reince priebus was very emphatic on this point, at least his view of what happened yesterday on "meet the press." we've been juggling a lot of news, so we have to leave it there. thank you both. appreciate it. >> thanks so much. after the break, the trump boom sent election day stocks up bigly. will it last or crash? stay tuned. with the geico app you can get roadside assistance, digital id cards... or even file a claim. do that.. yeah, yeah that should work. it's not happening... just try again. uh, i think i found your problem. thanks. hmm... the award-winning geico app. download it today.
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donald trump campaigned against the bankers who rigged the system against everyone else. today he tapped one of those bankers for a key job that sets economic policies and rules. you might say it's how the system getting organized, or rigged, depending on your view. trump hired gary cohn for assistant to the president. cohn is the third goldman banker trump has hired. their collective earnings reportedly well over $250 million. critics say trump's showing the
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street a lot of love and it looks like, as jay-z might say, the street is watching. the wall street markets are up. today the dow is closing at an all-time high. the trend is real here. this is the 15th record close since the election and the longest winning streak in over two years. so some trump fans calling this a trump rally, and look, let's be fair, there's no question rising stocks are a good step for many peep. but there's another side to this, as trump himself has emphasized, what's good for wall street does not always make its way down the main street. a new report from three influential economists say income inequality helped elect donald trump, but they predict it would actually grow wider under his policies. so if there is a trump rally on wall street, is it based on expectations that only wall street will gain in january? or what will it take to spread the love? joining me now is richard farley, a wall street lawyer and the author of "wall street wars: the epic battles with washington that created the modern financial system." also joining me from washington,
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jared bernstein, a former chief economist to vice president biden, and author of "altogether n now: a book about economic inequality." welcome to you both. i'm going to start with you, richard, for a wall street perspective. is this a trump rally? is it good? >> it's certainly a rally. there are a lot of ingredients going into the rally. i think, in some ways, having a lack of divided government is equally responsible for the rally as who is in the white house. i think, at least, problems can get addressed. secondly, you cannot overlook the opec meeting and the fact that there's now rising oil prices and we've become an energy economy to a large extent. i think a lot of this rally relates to that. and i think also, the tax proposal of allowing the repatriation of a lot of the funds overseas, which will be put in the stock market and other investments, is also a driver of this rally. no one has a crystal ball to know what the policies are, with any granularity. so i think to call it a trump
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rally, it certainly is in part, but it overstates the causes of this. >> jared? >> yeah, i think a lot of what richard say spot-on. i guess the one thick that i definitely wouldn't leave out is that donald trump has said that he'd like to repeal dodd/frank financial market reform or oversight. now, this is a very big deal for lots of investors on the street, who view a donald trump administration as not only friendly to them, in terms of the kind of corporate tax cuts that richard mentioned, but also on the regulatory side. now, if he were to actually be able to repeal that kind of oversight, in my view, you might be inviting back the same kind of bubbles that got us into the mess that we're just now climbing out of. that would be a terrible policy vis-a-vis the rest of the country. but i do think that's one of the elements behind the rally. >> you know, the bubbles were pushed by a lot of the banks.
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that's one of the critiques. here was donald trump on the campaign trail, basically saying that goldman controls politicians too much. >> i know the guys at goldman sachs. they have total, total, total control over him. just like they have total control over hillary clinton. he talks about, he's going to be robin hood, he's protecting. then find out on his personal disclosure form, he didn't disclose he's borrowing a lot of money from goldman sachs. he obviously didn't want the voters to know that he is totally controlled lock, stock, and barrel by citibank and by goldman sachs. >> jared, those were criticisms of political rivals, ted cruz, hillary clinton. should people care that substantively there's so many goldman bankers in charge or does it depend on what they do? >> substantively, they should care, and it depends on what they do. i'm definitely from the progressive side of this. i'm not one of those who think that we shouldn't let financial market people anywhere near government.
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in fact, a lot of those guys know where the skeletons are buried. i don't like having a goldman banker running the treasury department, because i think that's much too deep a connection to the banking sector. and as you teed this segment up, you really nailed the point, which is what we have to be asking, not is this good for markets and wall street, but is this good for main street and there the divisions remain very stark. >> richard? >> i think the people from goldman sachs who he has named and appointed i think are pretty good nominees. and i think that if you look historically, the only bipartisan elections criticizing wall street, that's the one thing that the left and the right, particularly on the extremes, will agree on. i think jared's right. we have to see what the policies are that are implemented. but in terms of competency and being in the mainstream, i think the candidates got his name from gold. with the exception of dan. but the other two i think are mainstream and have given a lot of money to democrats. >> is it striking there's so many high-worth individuals in the cabinet and no sort of -- the rural voters out there who
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are middle class or even lower middle class, they're not getting a representative, clearly? >> well, look, franklin roosevelt was an upper income individual. i think if you look at someone's wealth and try to glean how they're going to rule, i think you're probably on a fool's errand. >> and should dodd/frank -- >> can i make a quick comment about that? the silence from the base voters who were very much responsible for helping to elect donald trump in the rust belt, in particular, has been deafening, at least to my ears. i don't understand why there hasn't been nor kind of pushback, to staffing the cabinet with these folks. and i'm not even saying anything about their qualities. i'm just saying that the optics here look exactly the opposite of the kind of populist fra framework that he obviously teed up for these folks. >> i think there's no question that he left people with the impression -- you both may be right, that we have a little bit of an agreement here that you can't just look at someone's profession or paycheck and decide how they're going to govern. but that is, to be fair, how
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donald trump left it. that's why we showed the sound of him saying, hey, controlled by goldman, goldman, goldman. maybe that was just politics pip shudder to think, richard, that this was more politics than substance with donald trump's campaign. i'm an optimist. thank you both, gentleman. >> thank you. still ahead, the blame game. a top democrat pointing fingers on why hillary clinton lost the election and he was donald trump's first big endorser. now we're learning why governor christie, according to leaks, may have been shut out of the cabinet. that's ahead. picking up for kyle. here you go. you wouldn't put up with part of a pizza. um.
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you guys know how we like to close it out. it's with a political panel. christina grier and liz plank, a senior correspondent for vox. nice to see you both. our first topic today is our last topic. it's our sometimes seems like the only topic. it is the election that won't go away. we were talking earlier in the show to an elector who's still saying maybe hillary clinton should win and there's something to at least the argument they want to be briefed on intel, giving all of the stuff going on. on the politics itself. you have harry reid, who is, as we like to say in the business, not nobody. and he has a theory about all of this. take a listen. >> helped trump significantly a week before the election. he came out with this, oh, found some more e-mails. and as a result of that, we lost senate seats and i think we lost the presidency. >> christina grier, harry reid
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thinks that he -- they lost the presidency, his party, because of jim comey. >> i can't disagree with that. i know that comey and giuliani go way back and he only targeted hillary clinton and not donald trump. but i think the framing could be a little more productive and more factually based. instead of just saying, i think it's comey's fault, why doesn't he use some of the information we have move moving forward, some of the information we've been able to collect in the last week or two, to re-make the argument. right now the way harry reid is framing the debate makes it seem a little bit like democratic sour grapes. and there's enough substantiative evidence out there for democrats to actually make a full argument that comey actually did sway certain -- >> to your point, liz, there's sort of the, what would trump do question, and an auxiliary question, what would trump do if he were a young intersectional
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feminist. >> did you see that movie? i would love to see that. >> donald trump, if he won by 2.5 million votes and some rigged system denied him the presidency, that's all we would hear about. it would be a very robust, confident argument. we know that, because he started making it before he did win the electoral college and lose the popular vote. so is there some message or lesson there for democrats, who seem to not know how to sell the fact that they have the first woman nominee and she won 2.5 million more votes? >> remember he said he would keep us in suspense about what he would do if he lost the election? and i think your point about the electoral college is really important. the electoral college was created almost as if alexander hamilton was able to predict a man like donald trump taking power. not only does it talk about the qualifications, but there's a portion that says, it wants to protect the highest office against the desire in foreign governments to gain a counsel. it's another reason to put
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pressure on the electoral college to really act. and to fulfill its constitutional duty as an institution. >> and you're quoting federalist papers here, is how you know it's a good day. i want to go to governor chris christie, who turned down several positions in the trump administration. those jobs included dhs and the department of veterans affairs, and apparently an ambassadorship to italy. christie's current approval ratings in new jersey are now in the high teens. >> chris christie is too toxic to be in this already toxic administration. i think, you know, chris christie could be looking at prison time. most people don't think he'll make it, because unfortunately all of the people who work underneath him are going away for 10 to 20 years. >> and the prosecutors never named -- >> of course. and he also knows the law. and that's why he never put anything into e-mails. it's very clear all these direct orders were from him. so i think in an administration that's already completely plagued by scandal, no votes of
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confidence, miscellaneous individuals coming and going, i think that chris christie is just one more clown in the clown car that actually does not need to be there. >> although, again, legally, if anything, the investigation helps him, because it fingered other people and not him. briefly, we want to show you, donald trump says he's going to decorate his office with some nixon memorabilia. take a look. >> mrs. nixon told me that you were great on the donohue show. as you can imagine, she is an expert on politics. and she predicts that whenever you decide to run for office you will be a winner, with warm regards, sincerely, dick. >> politico reporting that letter from richard nixon is going to hang in the white house to donald trump. >> that's -- that's very intersection. >> look, the people that donald trump sort of surrounds himself with and the people that he praises gives us a lot of information about donald trump. he likes nixon, he likes putin. all of the evidence that we're getting from the cia and the fbi is important evidence, but we knew that donald trump had close
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ties to putin and he likes these kinds of characters, so -- >> a little bit of foreshadowing. >> we're looking forward to that whole brady bunch portrayal. you can find me on facebook or e-mail me at i'll be guest hosting again tomorrow at 6:00 p.m. see you then. "hardball" starts right now. trump versus the cia. let's play "hardball." good morning. i'm chris matthews in washington. i'm not an adviser to president-elect donald trump. if i were, i would look him in the eye right now and tell him how wrong he is on this question of who to trust. trump is denying that russia intervened in the presidential campaign. he's attacking the cia for discovering the intervention. he's thinking of naming john bolton to the state department.


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