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tv   Hardball With Chris Matthews  MSNBC  December 12, 2016 4:00pm-5:01pm PST

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ties to putin and he likes these kinds of characters, so -- >> a little bit of foreshadowing. >> we're looking forward to that whole brady bunch portrayal. you can find me on facebook or e-mail me at ari@msnbc.com. i'll be guest hosting again tomorrow at 6:00 p.m. see you then. "hardball" starts right now. trump versus the cia. let's play "hardball." good morning. i'm chris matthews in washington. i'm not an adviser to president-elect donald trump. if i were, i would look him in the eye right now and tell him how wrong he is on this question of who to trust. trump is denying that russia intervened in the presidential campaign. he's attacking the cia for discovering the intervention. he's thinking of naming john bolton to the state department. how can he do such things?
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he ran against the iraq war. he said it was stupid, horrible, disastrous. but it wasn't the cia's fault we started that war. the chief briefer for the agency told me on air that no one from the cia ever told an administration official that iraq had nuclear weapons. let's watch. >> we believe he has, in fact, reconstituted nuclear weapons. >> we believe he has, in fact, reconstituted nuclear weapons. was that true or not -- >> so we were saying -- >> was that true? >> we were saying -- >> can you answer that question? is that true? >> that's not true. >> they're selling the war, saying you made that stuff when you didn't. they're using your credibility to make the case for war dishonestly, as you just admitted. >> look, i'm just telling you -- >> you just admitted it. >> i'm just telling -- >> they're giving a false presentation of what you gave to them? >> on some aspects. >> it was a nest of neocons in the pentagon and the vice president's office who pushed that horrible war from day one and john bolton at the state department pushing the case all the way.
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and when went learned there were no nuclear weapons or chemical or biological weapons in iraq there, the neocons around dick cheney wanted to us blame it on the cia. i watched "washington post" reporters cover that blame game for weeks and i watched the neocons expose valeruerie blaim undercover identity. now the incoming commander in chief is going to war with the cia, which dared conclude that russia intervened with the campaign with the intention of helping trump win. "the washington post" first reported that stunning conclusion this past friday night. trump's response to the news has been to impugn the intelligence agency. in a statement, he said, these are the same people who said saddam hussein had weapons of mass destruction. no, they weren't! wrong! it wasn't the intelligence professionals, it was the ideologues around dick cheney. mike morrell said they never told cheney that, that he ran with that himself.
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yesterday, here's donald trump. >> i think it's ridiculous. i think it's just another excuse. i don't believe it. i don't know why. and i think it's just -- you know, they talked about all sorts of things. every week, it's another excuse. if you look at the story and take a look at what they said, there's great confusion. nobody really knows. and it's very interesting. once they hack, if you don't catch them in the act, you're not gong to catch them. they have no idea if it's russia or china or somebody. it could be somebody sitting in a bed someplace. they have no idea. >> so why would the cia put out the story that the russians wanted you to run? >> i'm not sure they put it out. the i think the democrats are putting it out, because they suffered one of the greatest defeats in the history of politics in this country. personally, it could be russia. i don't really think it is. but who knows? i don't know. >> there are bipartisan calls
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including from the top republican in the u.s. senate, mitch mcconnell, for a congressional investigation into russia's hacking. here he is. >> obviously, any foreign breach of our sovereign security measures is disturbing. and i strongly condemn any such efforts. i agree with senator schoourp, chairman mccain, burr, and others, this simply cannot be a partisan issue. i have the highest confidence in the intelligence community and especially the central intelligence agencies. >> joining me right now is senator chris coons, "the washington post" miller who broke the story, and malcolm nance, the author of "the plot to hack america." i've got little time here for all of this. senator kuntz, what do you make of trump's claim that the cia is not to be trusted. he's going to go on his on wits in terms of everything? no more briefings, nothing. >> it's very disturbing. as someone as president-elect who has a strikingly limited amount of experience in
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intelligence matters or international affairs, saying we should just disregard that russia is not our friend and that all of the intelligence community, not just the cia, more than a dozen different intelligence agencies across the entire u.s. government has delivered a message to congress that with high confidence, they believe at the most senior levels of the russian government, there was an intentional effort to interfere with our democracy. i'm very pleased that republican senate leader mitch mcconnell has joined with senators mccain and graham and rubio and others in a bipartisan call to make sure we get to the bottom of this, and that we respond appropriately. i think this is a very big deal, chris. >> what do you think, as an american, of the fact that the evidence now that the russian, the former soviet union over there, if you will, from my memory. we can all remember the cold war, that that country over there deliberately got involved in our political campaigning so the one side, the one they wanted to win, in this case trump, won. what do you make of that, as an american? not as a politician. >> chris, first, i led a
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bipartisan delegation to eastern europe back in august, when we first got news this was likely happening. and it's striking to me how many countries across central, eastern, and western europe have already been victims of overt and covert russian interference in their election. this is something that the russians are doing across all of europe. >> what do they want? >> as an american, i think this goes right to the heart of our country. we are defined as a democracy. and if we allow this to go unchallenged, if we allow this to go uninvestigated. and if we allow this to go without a robust response, i think we're letting down america. >> why are they picking trump? why do they want him? >> well, i think that's something that we should be investigating more thoroughly. but his nominee, his potential nominee for secretary of state, just to give one example, rex tillerson, is somebody who is such a close friend of vladimir putin and the kremlin that he's received a medal of friendship from vladimir putin. i'm concerned that anyone who is a close friend of vladimir
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putin, may not really have the best interest of the united states at heart. >> let me go to greg. congratulations, greg, on this incredible reporting. i mean, incredible reporting, i should say. how do you -- what do you know that drove them? do we know what drove the russians to intervene in our election on behalf of trump? >> i think the sense we have is that they were sort of trying lots of different things, and then exploring lots of vulnerabilities from various parties and various candidates, who were sort of equal opportunity hacking in multiple directions. but as it became clearer and clearer that trump would be the republican nominee, and then, in fact, have a real shot at winning, a lot more energy went into supporting that prospect and that possibility. and i would add to what the senator was just saying. i think that, you know, initially looked like they were just out to undermine confidence in democratic institutions or just a simple presidential vote in the united states. and then over time, it became more of a concerted oef eed eff try to get trump into office. >> when did they decide not to
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release the hacked information from the republican national committee, as they had done with the democratic national committee? >> we've spent a fair amount of time reporting on that exact question, chris. and we have a story, i think it will run tomorrow, that will hopefully clear that up a bit. it's a little murky, but it's -- one of the big questions is whether they actually obtained a trove of republican material. they certainly tried. they certainly made attempts to get marry. and if they didn't, there's a question about why they didn't try. i mean, a lot of security officials i talked to said the russians were certainly capable of getting into an unclassified network like the rnc computer system. they don't appear necessarily to have gathered a comparable trove in this case. so it's not obvious that they had one and were sitting on it. it looks more likely that they went after the democrats harder, got more material, and put all of it or a lot of it out. >> how sophisticated are the russians at figuring out and basically plucking the stuff they knew would cause trouble? >> well, i think that -- the
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so, just the story lines that we've seen, even over the past several days, if this is -- these are true conclusions from the cia, if they're accurate, these must be deeply satisfying to putin and the cell lynn. >> i know, because they pulled this stuff about donna brazile, they really knew their stuff, unfortunately. in this interview for fox this weekend, donald trump also dismissed the idea of even having a daily intelligence briefing as president. let's watch. >> i just want to ask you about your skepticism about the intelligence community. you are getting the presidential daily brief. >> yes. >> only once a week. >> well, i get it when i need it. >> but is it -- is there some
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skepticism? >> first of all, these are very good people that are giving me the briefings. and i say, if something should change from this point, immediately call me. i'm available on one minute's notice. i don't have to be told, you know, i'm like a smart person. i don't have to be told the same thing in the same words every single day for the next eight years. could be eight years, but eight years. i don't need that. but i do say if something should change, let us know. >> malcolm nance, free opportunity for you to critique what you just heard. i don't know what to make of it, because, thank god we had the cia telling us in august of 2001 that they were coming to attack us in this country, al qaeda. unfortunately, we had a president who didn't move on us, but the cia damned well gave it to him in his pbd that day in august. so here's a president-elect that doesn't seem to want the pdb every day. >> he doesn't seem to understand that the world changes on a very
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small scale every day. when he goes to sleep at night, if he hasn't read his p.m. dosier or his report at night and the next morning the world will wake up different. and he needs to know that. and although he says, just come back to me when it changes, it's constantly changing. there are thousands of intelligence watch officers right now all around the world watching this program, smacking their foreheads, wondering whether the president-elect of the united states is absolutely oblivious to the intelligence processes or he just doesn't care. >> you know, the medal of freedom, dan patrick moynihan, senator from new york discovered there was a medal given to intelligence officers who were killed overseas and it had to be done quietly, but they had to be honored, it was appropriate. we've lost a lot of spies over the years, who have gone into horrible situations, been brilliant at risking their lives and sometimes lost their lives for this country. what do you make of his broad brush attack on the intelligence community, mr. trump's?
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malcolm? >> well, i think it's absolutely disgraceful. i mean, if the election hadn't occurred, it would be disqualifying. but we've been using that word a lot. i have three friends on the wall at the cia. i have six who i've worked with at nsa's wall, on the wall of those who have lost their lives in the defense of this nation. there are tens of thousands of good people, men and women, working 24/7, 365 to defend this nation and he discards them, because he thinks he knows better. right now what we feed to know is why does this man's policy track with the kremlin. why does this man's policy seem dismissive of 70 years of america's defense policies and strategies? why does this man seem to have foreknowledge of intelligence operations which have occurred with the acquiescence or the direction of the kremlin? this requires investigation. and believe me, i certainly hope that we get to the bottom of it.
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>> let me go to senator coons. senator coons, when you're dealing with bureaucrats, people who work for the country that are nonpartisan, they just do their job for the country. they don't make a ton of money, they serve the country. they don't do their best work when they're being dumped on, he used worse words, but you get it. to use their supreme ability, their intellect, to try to safe us from trouble. where's this headed? what would you tell trump right now? >> i'd tell him to stop tweeting. i'd tell him to start taking your presidential daily briefing. and i would tell him that he's frankly, it would be in his best interest and the country's interest to stop attacking the professionals in the intelligence community and start relyinging on their advice. i, frankly, think he's headed for some very rough water with both republicans and democrats in congress. the idea that somehow he is a great dealmaker might nominate
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someone for secretary of state and deputy secretary of state who also view themselves as great dealmakers and they might cut some grand deal with putin that would sell down the river ukraine or the baltic allies we have through nato i think will profoundly upset the american people and its disrespect to the career professionals in the intelligence community is a very alarming opening move, before he's even been inaugurated. >> senator coons of the senate foreign relations committee and of the state of delaware, thank you very much for coming on on this very important night pip hope you keep going with this. what a story and how scary it is. that we have a foreign government that's been so successful in manipulating us. malcolm nance, as always, sir, your passion and your brains are much appreciated. coming up, if russia did intervene or interfere in our election to help donald trump win, what do they want from him? and what do they expect to get? we'll ask the former ambassador
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united states to russia. and he says democrats had won control of the senate had comey not sent that letter just days before the election. reid's now calling for an investigation into comey. and the "hardball" roundtable is here to remind trump that the issue of russian hacking was brought up during the election campaign. a lot of times. and if he's still wondering about that, we've got lots of videotape to refresh his memory. we've talked about this a lot. and finally, let me finish tonight with trump watch and the stark divide between what trump is saying and what's actually true. this is "hardball," the place for politics. e s ally any betten the one you got last year? if we consolidate suppliers what's the savings there? so should we go with the 467 horsepower? or is a 423 enough? good question. you ask a lot of good questions... i think we should move you into our new fund. ok. sure. but are you asking enough about how your wealth is managed? wealth management, at charles schwab.
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month. bloomberg was first to report that news, and nbc has confirmed it. the president-elect said he would hand off the business operations to his grown children, but hasn't provided details of the arrangement. we'll be right back. all of my purchasing. and that unlimited 2% cash back from spark means thousands of dollars each year going back into my business... which adds fuel to my bottom line. what's in your wallet? ♪ ♪ see ya next year. this season, start a new tradition. experience the power of infiniti now, with leases starting at $319 a month. infiniti. empower the drive.
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in his case, he's much more than a business executive. he's a world-class player. he's in charge of, i guess, the largest company in the world. it's been a company that's been unbelievably managed. and to me, a great advantage is he knows many of the players and knows them well. he does massive deals in russia. does massive deals -- not for himself, but for the company. >> welcome back to "hardball." that was president-elect trump speaking about exxonmobil ceo, rex tillerson, who nbc news reported over the weekend, is expected to be named as trump's, and the country's's secretary of state, perhaps in a day or two. the choice of tillerson could ignite the first showdown
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between trump and members of his own republican party up on capitol hill. tillerson's close business ties to russia and trump's own reluctance to criticize putin but instead takes shots at u.s. intelligence officials is concerning, to put it lightly to the republican party. a tillerson pick comes amid the uproar reports that russia intervened to help trump win. because of exxonmobil's working relationship with the russian government, tillerson was given russia's order of friendship decoration. there he is getting the award in 2012. florida senator marco rubio tweeted, being a friend of sl d vladimir is not an attribute i'm hoping for from a secretary of state. lindsey graham said, if you received an award from the kremlin, order of friendship, we're going some talking. and here's what arizona senator john mccained that to say. >> it's a matter of concern to me that he has such a close personal relationship with vladimir putin and, obviously, they've done enormous deals
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together, that that would color his approach to vladimir putin and the russian threat. but that is a matter of concern. we will give him his chance. that's what the confirmation process -- that's what advise and consent is all about. >> but when he gets the friendship award from a butcher, frankly, it's an issue that i think needs to be examined. >> well, campaign manager and transition adviser, kellyanne conway, defended the possibility of tillerson at state. >> it's not like vladimir putin and rex tillerson is intimate friends. they deal with each other through business interests. and most importantly, anybody who is in president-elect trump's cabinet, particularly the secretary of state, the fourth highest ranking person in our government, that person will be advancing the u.s. interests everywhere. >> steve lemons is washington editor at large. ambassador, thank you.
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give us your -- take some time. what do you think of tillerson as secretary of state? >> well, i have the same concerns as the various senators you just had clips of. obviously, he's a very experienced ceo, of a major company. he's been there for his entire career. and with respect to russia, i know his operation and his people in moscow well. they did some fantastic deals. a $300 billion deal with the largest oil company in russia. and they did that deal because he developed a close, personal relationship with vladimir putin. that's the way that system works. you don't do that kind of deal without that relationship. and until this moment, they were very proud of the fact that they had that kind of access with putin that almost no other americ americans have. that said, our relationship is not just about energy or drilling in the arctic. it's about syria, about ukraine,
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the illegal annexizatiation of m crimea. and i'm not sure he understands the full portfolio in dealing with russia, let alone the rest of the world. >> let's talk about the old east/west problem. we worried most about russia and china. and we worry about some of the satellite countries like north korea. we worry about them. because they have nuclear weapons and we could go to nuclear war, potentially. so what does tillerson do if the north koreans drop a bomb on seoul? these are horrible thoughts, but someone has to have them in their head. what do you do them? >> i agree with everything mike mcfaul just said. but that said, our own secretary of state, john kerry, has been trying to work out a relationship with putin and sergey lavrov, trying to find areas to collaborate within syria. when you're a permanent five member, they collaborate in iran. there are going to be areas where our interests diverge dramatically. if you drop a bomb on seoul, you'll need russia and china and
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others aligned in an action. there's this notion that america moving unilaterally through the world is something tor celebrate and boast about it. it's just not the way the world works. >> i gave that extreme case and i hope in our lifetimes we don't see anything like it. but you have to wonder what a guy with gut instincts would do. he would just drop another on them. what would that accomplish? let's take something less drastic. he grabs one of the battltics. he just grabs one. he rushes in askand takes it, l he got the wrong message. remember atchison gave the wrong message to the north koreans in the 1950s. give the wrong message and wars start. we've seen that, ambassador. how do we avoid a war? stupidity and ignorance do start wars and failure to lay down the line ahead of time, what will you do if they do it, is usually what gets us into trouble. your thoughts? >> well, of course, we'll have to engage. we'll have to avoid that through
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diplomacy. and i do want to underscore if you run exxonmobil, you have a lot of experience with diplomacy, with people around the world. that's important to say, first and foremost. but the problem is, just looking through the lens of diplomacy, through energy or even business, that's what troubles me. we have other things we have to think about. his closest business partner in russia today is eager setchen. he's on the sanctions list and i think he's on the sanctions list for good reason. because russia annexed crimea and intervened in ukraine. so we have to -- that is part of the policy, too, in my view, and that's why you have to, in my view, have a larger portfolio and think about these things, not just from the narrow perspective of energy. >> let's talk about the world. there's a whole globe out there. and i do agree with trump's -- i do agree with the guy occasionally. he was opposed to the iraq war. i don't like the secretary of states being constantly in airplanes. i think at some point you've got to use modern technology and sit
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in washington, at foggy bottom or the white house and advise the president, quality time with the president, lots of it. so jim baker and george bush sr. get your heads together. schultz and reagan. get your heads together, understand the world. that's a learning process. and bopping around on these long trips -- >> right now we dona't have a sense from donald trump and his team whether they're doing things by accident or on purpose. we don't know whether the flirtation with russia is a strategic pivot for the united states, that many of us don't support, but nonetheless, you can make a case for it. and you're simultaneously taking on china. and by the way, you're basically planting an element of doubt in every ally of the united states about america's willingness to be with them in their dark days. so, you have a problem. now we have total global fragility. all of our allies' behaviors are going to change. and you have two of the big stakeholders, russia and china getting very different signals than they've been getting from the united states. and all of this is happening on a dime. in that world, you do need
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someone. i don't know if rex tillerson is the guy, but he has run a role -- and i agree with mike. that you want to make sure that it's not through an oil and energy lens only that you're looking at the way in which america pursues its diplomacy. >> you have two men of great narcissistic intent here, ambassador. what is -- what do you think of his fantastic world, putin's looking for from trump? what's he really want? a bigger, bring back the near empire, an next ukraine? what does he want? >> well, i think the point about strategy that steve just pointed out is really important. so far, and i've listened to a lot of what president-elect trump has said about russia for a long time. and by the way, you're right, chris, we've been talking about hacking and the threat to our democracy for a long time on this program. well before this weekend. so, let's be clear about what he said. he said, i want a good
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relationship with russia. that's his objective. and putin says, okay, i'll give you that. if you want to meet the objective, support me in syria, support my ally in syria, support me in ukraine, recognize crimea. that's a bad deal! the problem, i think, in terms of the strategy so far is we don't know what the actual objectives for american security should be. s so the objectives should be to define those fist, then use your engagement and personal relations to achieve those. in other words, he's got thethp my view. >> could it be we could eventually cut some deal with putin over syria where you partition the country, the alawites get their little piece of syria and maybe the assad family can hang out there for another couple of years, maybe three or four years. where they're allowed the to have a soft landing, but get them out of there eventually.
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and we bring back some kind of -- some sort of sunni-controlled syria that's somewhat moderate. that's my hope. steve, you're laughing, but that's my hope. we feed the hope. anyway, thank you, michael mcfaul and steve clemclemmons. up next, harry reid said that james comey cost hillary clinton the election. fair enough argument there. he's calling for an investigation. this is "hardball," the place for politics. [kid] i won't, dad... [captain rod] happy tuesday morning! captain rod here. it's pretty hairy out on the interstate.traffic is literally crawling, but there is some movement on the eastside overpass. getting word of another collision. [burke] it happened. december 14th, 2015. and we covered it. talk to farmers. we know a thing or two because we've seen a thing or two. ♪ we are farmers. bum-pa-dum, bum-bum-bum-bum ♪
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i'm milissa rehberger. here's what's happening. the wisconsin election commission says donald trump picked up 162 votes in a presidential election recount, requested by green party candidate, jill stein. meanwhile, president-elect trump defeated hillary clinton in wisconsin. and check out these scary scenes where a gaping sink hole opened up leading down to a beach in pacifica. fortunately, no one was hurt. back to "hardball." comey helped trump significantly. a week before the election, he came out with this, oh, yes, i found some more e-mails. and as a result of that, we lost senate seats and i think we lost the presidency if had he not written that letter, she would
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have won and we would have picked up more senate seats. >> that was the outgoing personality, senate democratic leader, harry reid, laying hillary clinton and the democrats' defeat in november squarely at the feet of fbi director, james comey. senator reid also says the fbi director knew about russia interference in the 2016 election, but withheld the information from the public and refused to act for political -- actually, partisan -- reasons. he had tougher words for comey in a phone interview on saturday with my colleague, joy reid, when he referred to comey as the new j. edgar hoover. let's listen. >> i did not believe that comey was the new j. edgar hoover. i thought that he would do the right thing for the country. you know, this is clear. we've all read the press the last few days. the fbi had this material for a long time. comey, who's, you know, of course, a republican, refused to divulge this information. he violated the orders of the
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attorney general, president, and good taste. >> you believe that jim comey, the fbi director, had this information and deliberately withheld it from the american people before the election. is that your contention? >> that's right. that is true. >> joining me right now is msnbc political analyst and nevada politics expert, john ralston. also anne gearan of "the washington post." john, i want to ask you about this guy, reid. he has -- he's firing in both directions. he said the fbi talked because they wanted to help trump. the cia didn't talk because they wanted to help trump. they're all in cahoots. this is a pretty strong claim of partisanship, not institutional purpose, but partisan republican behavior. he certainly has a case to make in terms of the impact, the consequence, but the motive, that's a pretty stark charge. and i don't know how you prove it if you have an investigation. >> well, of course, this isn't the first time, chris, that harry reid has made a charge he can't prove. we all remember mitt romney and the taxes. but this is harry reid doing
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what harry reid does. i think a lot of people think, because you mentioned that he's outgoing, that he's willing to say anything. but harry reid has never had a sel self-editing mechanism. and he's clearly very upset, even though he's leaving, even though hillary clinton lost, that he was unable to take over the u.s. senate for the democrats, even though he managed to hold his own seat. so he's out there with his blunder bus, as he usually is, firing in all directions, and believe me, he's going to keep doing it up until january 3rd and probably even in retirement. >> what do you think it's about? he talked about not being -- not getting anywhere on his good looks or anything. that was a funny line. self-deprecation always works. but he also talked about how good works should get results. well, we all know, the hardest working people don't always make it. he thinks somehow that good work should have brought results. where, you know, that's life. do you think he can make a case
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in a hearing or a senate commission that the fbi and cia were both acting partisan? acting partisan on purpose? >> from our "washington post" reporting shows that there is a fair a lot of -- to back him up. uh be certainly not, he's gone farther than certainly than hillary clinton did, or than really -- >> how do you show comey -- i can imagine being pa real partisan and saying, yeah, he did it to screw hillary clinton. and he knew she couldn't overcome it and he did it twice. >> well, even -- even if comey was acting purely as he has -- you know, has indicated, and as partisans have said on his behalf, for the good of the fbi, and because he felt there was some sort of an internal advection and the material would leak out and it would look more partisan than people -- >> well, harry reid -- >> even if he believed that. >> harry reid didn't say that. he said, i'm disappointed in
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comey, he has let the country down for partisan purposes. he did this to hurt hillary and get trump elected. >> and that's gone a lot farther than hillary has gone in her own defense. >> john, that charge is hard to prove and hard to disprove. you just never know about motive. what's in a person's head. unless he had a conversation with somebody, and they're sitting around having a drinking saying, i'm going to beat hillary clinton. i'm going to do this right. people don't have those conversations, i don't think. even if they have them on purpose. and i don't think comey is partisan. i think he's an institutionalist. you know, you never know these people, but i think he's more of an fbi guy than he is a republican. but he is a republican. >> i don't think you can prove that comey did this for part stan reasons but they'll have a long commission to try to do so. and they should try. to try to find the evidence. if there is any, it would be damning. thank you, john ralston and anne gear gearan. up next, donald trump asks why the issue of russian hacking wasn't brought up before the
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election? guess what, it was brought up again and again and again. we have video to show. donald, you can't deny what's on television. remember, reality tv, that's whatwear in. that's next for the roundtable. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics. with advil, you'll ask what bad knee? what throbbing head? advil makes pain a distant memory nothing works faster stronger or longer what pain? advil.
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welcome back to "hardball." despite the word of the u.s. intelligence community, donald trump continues to deny that russia was behind the cyberattacks directed against this country during the election. and this morning, trump went a step further, tweeting, unless you catch hackers in the act, and it's very hard to determine who is doing the hacking. why wasn't this brought up before the election? well, of course, russia's interference was brought up. it was hotly debated on multiple occasions during the campaign. asked about it in his last fish press conference back in july, trump famously called on russia to find hillary clinton's e-mails. then he denied russia's involvement in each of the three presidential debates. >> russia, if you're listening,
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i hope you're able to find the 30,000 e-mails that are missing. i mean, it could be russia, but it could also be china. it could also be lots of other people. it could also be somebody sitting on their bed that weighs 400 pounds, okay? i notice anytime anything wrong happens, they look to say the russians -- she doesn't know the it's the russians doing the hacking. maybe there is no hacking. from everything i see has no respect for this person. >> well, that's because he'd rather have a puppet as president than -- >> no puppet. no puppet. >> -- and it's pretty clear -- >> you're the puppet! >> she has no idea whether it's russia, china, or anybody else -- >> i am not quoting myself, i am quoting -- >> hillary, you have no idea. >> do you doubt 17 military and civilian -- >> our military has no idea. >> i'm joined right now by the "hardball" roundtable tonight. jonathan capehart is an opinion writer for "the washington post" and msnbc political analyst. and ken vogel is chief investigative reporter at politico. go at it here first, jonathan.
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i think we're all thinking about this really horrible situation, where the president-elect is about to take the side of the russians against people who give their lives to try to -- >> i think it's astounding. i think it probably would live a lot of us, who cover presidents speechless. these are the people that put their lives on the line, but they are the president's eyes and ears around the world. the idea that he is poo-pooing the work that they've done, but also not even availing himself of all of the intelligence briefings, it's just, if that doesn't put the fear of god into every american, i don't know what else could. >> this is a very dangerous and disturbing situation. you want -- look, a president should be appropriately skeptical of intelligence. should say that his intelligence agent who is brief him, wahat i the basis for this? are you sure we know this? how confident are you?
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what are the underlying sources and methods? but that's not donald trump's point. he has been relentlessly incurious and taking the side of not the intelligence agency. now he's going to be president. he needs to have a relationship with these briefers, and to have -- there needs to be some trust of them, because he is what -- they are wrong sometimes, but they are right more than they are wrong. and he needs, as our president, to be able to rely on them. when he just dismisses their work, it is just -- it's poisonous to that relationship, which is essential to the country. >> you know, mankiewicz said, never argue with somebody's whose job it is not to be convinced. is there any way trump will ever be convinced that the russians helped him get elected? >> no, he'll throw mud all over that and that's clearly what's going on here in an effort to distract the mounting momentum to look into this in a serious way. and i think we should look into it in a serious way. he should just step back and let
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it play its course. there is evidence that russia intervened and try to help them. there is no evidence that it was actually determinative in the results. >> that's right. >> we let that happen. and then he can -- >> you would have to interview anybody -- >> even the people who are arguing that this was somehow tipped by james comey, for instance. they're not arguing that it was tipped because of wikileaks' release of hacked e-mails from john podesta's e-mail account. it's really puzzling why he's doing it. >> but it will be in the history books. we all know 10 to 20 years from now, there's be something in the history books, maybe a little nut in the argument that says, there were questions about the role played by russia in that campaign, the intelligence agency said they were involved in trying to help trump. it's going to be part of the history. and he hates it! >> he hates it, but in terms of like instilling confidence in the american people that the election, even with the interference of the russians and the russian government, that even with that, the election was
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true, bona fide, you know, above board, everything was fine, as ken said, would not have changed the outcome of the election, why wouldn't trump want to have that seal of approval. >> if he really believed it. >> but those of us in the reality-based community would look and see that something that says -- >> that's a minority community. anyway, the trump transition further assailed the credibility of the u.s. intelligence community on friday night, releasing a statement saying, quote, these are the same people that said saddam hussein had weapons of mass destruction. the election ended a long time ago in one of the biggest electoral college victories in history. it's time to move on. this is almost like a new reversal. if we could put a man on the moon, we could, dot, dot, dot. and it wasn't the intelligence community. it was the way it was manipulated by people in the administration. we all know that. by the way, why is he picking john bolton, maybe?
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he picks the guy who was in the iraq war, still seems like the vietnam war to me. the iraq war, he still seems to want this guy, as we speak, and at the same time, he says he wants to get the fbi and the cia out of there. who actually were right! >> but only one of the sentences in that statement, it's time to move on, is even arguably true. and you know, i actually do think he is going to be president. i'm moving on in that way. but, yet, constantly, when you have conversations with trump folks and trump supporters and the trump transition about facts, they always point to a fact that somebody else got wrong another time, rather than trying -- wanting to get to the essence of these facts and whether they're right or not. and it's never going to be proven that russia's involvement impacted the election. nobody is accusing trump of being in league with the russians in order to do that, of wittingly knowing that they were working on his behalf.
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so why not just do what you say and come forward and say, you know what, i would like a full investigation. >> i have to put a fact in here. because there are facts. one is arithmetic. he just said in that statement there, it's one of the biggest electoral college victories in history. well, it was 46 out of 48. 46 out of 58. it was ant big -- >> left siandslide! >> so that was wrong. and additionally, there's really nothing to gain for him politically. unless there is actual evidence that someone on his team had advanced knowledge or knew something about this, then it's just -- it burns hot now and it goes -- he is actually adding fuel to this fire. >> a lawrence walsh investigation that goes on for nine years. it succeeds all the possible administrations we could think about. the traroundtable is sticking w us. and up next these three will
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tell me something i don't though. this is "hardball" the place for politics. go, go! [ rock music playing ] have fun with your replaced windows. run away! [ grunts ] leave him! leave him! [ music continues ] brick and mortar, what?! [ music continues ] [ tires screech ] [ laughs ] [ doorbell rings ] when you bundle home and auto insurance with progressive, you get more than a big discount. that's what you get for bundling home and auto! jamie! you get sneaky-good coverage. thanks. we're gonna live forever!
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well, republicans will have a 52-48 majority in the next u.s. senate. that's because republican john kennedy won in his senate runoff election in indiana. he defeated foster campbell, a seat being vacated by the retired david vitter. and we'll be right back. so dad slayed the problem with puffs plus lotion, instead. puffs have pillowy softness for dakota's tender nose. with lotion to comfort and soothe when she blows. don't get burned by ordinary tissues.
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with taltz, up to 90% of patients had a significant improvement of their psoriasis plaques. in fact, 4 out of 10 even achieved completely clear skin. do not use if you are allergic to taltz. before starting you should be checked for tuberculosis. taltz may increase your risk of infections and lower your ability to fight them. tell your doctor if you are being treated for an infection or have symptoms. or if you have received a vaccine or plan to. inflammatory bowel disease can happen with taltz. including worsening of symptoms. serious allergic reactions can occur. now's your chance at completely clear skin. just ask your doctor about taltz. we're back with the round table "hardball." tell me something i don't know. >> loretta lynch talked to me for the first time on the record
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about all of this stuff and i asked her if she were concerned to know that president-elect donald trump has not you a veiled himself of all of the intelligence briefings and she said, well, you know, i think we have to give them time to spend with the intelligence community and make their own assessments. >> ruth? >> actually, this is law-related, also. we're all waiting to see who president trump is going to appoint to the supreme court but another decision his administration is going to have to make, which position to take in a transgender rights case before the court. >> go ahead. >> there's a number of key positions that the trump transition team is on the cusp of naming, including a number of white house positions, secretary rnc chair between the old trump loyalists, the establishment in between the anti-establishment. >> thank you, guys.
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thank you all. when we return, trump watch. you're watching "hardball." the microsoft cloud helps us stay connected. the microsoft cloud offers infinite scalability. the microsoft cloud helps our customers get up and running, anywhere in the planet. wherever there's a phone, you've got a bank, and we could never do that before. the cloud gave us a single platform to reach across our entire organization. it helps us communicate better. we use the microsoft cloud's advanced analytics tools to track down cybercriminals. this cloud helps transform business.
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trump watch, monday, december 12th, 2016. you certainly could argue that i should have seen this coming, this difference between what trump is saying and the truth that is out there for people who pay good attention. the denial that the russians
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intervened in the presidential race and the cia assessment that they did. one is right, the other is wrong. if trump has evidence to dispute the cia finding, he should produce it. if not, his contempt for the intelligence agency is without merit. in fact, it's worse. why would an about to be u.s. commander in chief ridicule the intelligence services he's about to command? i repeat what i said at the top of the show. it wasn't the cia that got us into that terrible, stupid, self-destructive war in iraq. it was the neocons festering in the pentagon, and it led to the uncovering of an agent's identify and perjury conviction for one of its own number. i would like to think donald trump read the newspapers during this fiasco. but if he got it wrong, it is not all his fault. the cia did not tell us saddam hussein had nuclear weapons. cheney did, along with john bolton who can't wait to get
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back into positions where they can do more of this, more wars, more regime changes, more american casualties, more killing of american people. mr. trump, please don't let john bolton back into power. he'll bring more like him with him to do it. that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. "all in" with chris hayes starts right now. when it was all said and done -- >> we have seen a brand-new way of looking at and thinking about this electoral map. >> this is a white working class -- >> turned red overnight. >> we won michigan, pennsylvania and we won wisconsin. >> and though hillary clinton won the national popular vote by more than 2.5 million people, in the end, just 80,000 votes across three states was enough for trump. tonight, we return to the state that put the republican over the top with the settin

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