tv The Last Word With Lawrence O Donnell MSNBC December 12, 2016 7:00pm-8:01pm PST
experience. rex tillerson, we're told may have a bumpy ride. patriotism has been having a fight for a long time, it has not been a fair fight. but that does it for us. tomorrow night i'm going to have an exclusive interview with attorney general loretta lynch, for real, loretta lynch will be here for the interview tomorrow night on this show. i hope you will join us for that. now it's time for the last word with lawrence o'donnell. good evening. we have a lot of breaking news to be covering here. donald trump has chosen exxon mobil ceo rex tillerson as secretary of state. donald trump tweeted that that announcement the will actually be made tomorrow. mitt romney tweeted tonight that he was glad to have been considered. he made it clear that it would not be mitt romney, and then there's more breaking news that
developed earlier tonight on what we will not hear from donald trump this week. this was the week when donald trump was going to announce his plans to avoid conflicts of interests with his business. that has been delayed till next year. the. >> what i'm hearing here is an ignorant person. >> the overwhelming consensus of the intelligence agencies is that the russians hacked into our democratic institutions. >> they have no idea whether it's russia or china or somebody. the. >> it's not at all clear to me that this hacking was not a false flag operation. >> there is no higher degrieve confidence can you get within the cia. >> it could be somebody sitting in a bed someplace. >> i don't know where he gets these images, they're kind of creep eye. >> i have the highest confidence in the intelligence community.
>> stop tweeting, start taking your intelligence briefing. >> i don't have to be told the same thing every day. >> it isn't the same thing every day. it's constantly changing. >> it's another reason why he's incompetent. >> you don't like a smart person. nbc news has confirmed donald trump will name exxon mobil ceo rex tillerson to be secretary of state. earlier their evening, donald trump tweeted, i will be making my announcement on the next secretary of state tomorrow morning, and minutes ago, mitt romney acknowledged that he has been told he will not be donald trump's choice for secretary of state. mitt romney wrote on facebook it was an honor to be considered for secretary of state of our great country. my discussions with president-elect trump have been both enjoyable and enlightening, i have very high hopes that the new administration will lead the nation to greater strength, prosperity and peace.
the wall street journal reports among those considered for secretary of state, mr. tillerson has perhaps the closest ties to russian president vladimir putin, having negotiated a 2011 energy partnership deal with russia. in 2012, the kremlin bestowed the country's order of friendship decoration on mr. tillerson. the washington post reports that the cia now briefs russia deliberately interfered with the u.s. election to specifically help donald trump win. donald trump responded to that report yesterday. >> hacking is very interesting. once they hack, if you don't catch them in the act, you're not going to catch them. they have no idea it's russia or china or somebody, it could be somebody sitting in a bed someplace. they have no idea. >> why would the cia put out this story that the russians wanted you to win? >> i am not sure they put it out. i think the democrats are putting it out pause they
suffered one of the greatest defeats in the history of politics in this country. personally, it could be russia. i don't really think it is, but i don't know, they don't know and i don't know. >> and here is how donald trump gets his intelligence briefings. >> you are getting the presidential daily brief. >> yes. >> only once a week. >> well, i get it when i need it. >> is there some skepticism? >> first of all, these are very good people that are giving me the briefings. if something should change from this point, immediately call me, i'm available on one minute's notice. i don't have to be told, you know, i'm like a smart person, i don't have to be told the same thing and the same words every single day for the next eight years. could be eight years, but eight years. >> this morning donald trump tweeted, can you imagine if the election results were the opposite and we tried to play the russia/cia card? it would be called conspiracy
theory. and he also tweeted, unless you catch hackers in the act, it is very hard to determine who was doing the hacking. why wasn't this brought up before election? as of course everyone knows, it was brought up before the election, by the director of national intelligence, which issued a statement on october 7th, saying the u.s. intelligence community is confident that the russian government directed the recent compromises of e-mails from u.s. persons and institutions, including from u.s. political organizations. these thefts and disclosures are intended to interfere with the u.s. election process. in october, mike pence acknowledged that russia was implicated. >> i know you're getting intelligence briefings. do you brief the american intelligence that says russia is behind all of these hacks into
john podesta, the dns, et cetera. do you believe the american intelligent community on this? >> i think there's more and more evidence that indicates russia. >> and of course it was brought up in presidential debates. >> notice, anytime anything wrong happens they like to say the russians -- or she doesn't know if it's the russians hacking, maybe there isn't any hacking. they think they're trying to tarnish me with russia. >> here's how nat majority leader mitch mcconnell reacted to reports of russia hacking. >> it defies belief that somehow republicans in the senate are reluctant to review russian tactics or ignore them. so let me say i have the highest confidence in the intelligence
agencies. many of whom anonymously risk their lives for the american people. the russians are not our friends. i think we should approach all of these issues on the assumption that the russians do not wish us well. >> joining us now, general paul eaton, and the managing director of the vet voice foundation, also with us tom nickles, professor at the u.s. naval war college. general eaton, your assessment of what we're hearing about the russian hacks at this point. >> to have the president-elect of the united states dismiss an entire community of very hard-work being intelligence officers, put yourself in their shoes. this is the guy who is going to be their boss, and he has just dismissed out of hand all of their hard work that comes to this conclusion. and i've worked with intel officers all my life. if you don't agree with them, you don't necessarily dismiss them out of hand, embrace them,
bring it in, analysis is your purview as well. and he has just dismissed an entire community of hard-working men and women, sometimes at great risk to their lives. >> tom nickles, the standard of proof that trump wants to use now, he says if you don't catch them in the act you're not going to catch them. now donald trump apparently has never heard of fingerprints. he's never heard of electronic fingerprints. he doesn't know that there are men at this of crimes that if not caught in the act, traces are left behind that enable us to figure out who did it. i mean, that standard of proof of if you don't catch them in the act you're not going to catch them, is that the standard that we hud be using on hacking stories like this? >> it made me wonder who's advising the president-elect on hacking.
of course my view is that it's a convenient way to dismiss the problem, to say, well, whatever happened, happened. it's water under the bridge as the transition team has said, it's time to move on. but, as you pointed out, you don't have to catch hackers in the act. and in fact, it's pretty rare to catch hackers in the act. there's a whole forensic field that's meant to discover what's happened after this event. as general eaton points out, it's dismissing the view of an entire community of professional whose really do know what they're doing. >> and general, the idea that the cia has been studying this as long as they have, several weeks now, and they've come out with this conclusion, why aren't we getting more substance on this conclusion? why is it in the whole kind of unnamed source level at this point? >> it's a great question. you have now ten members of the electoral board, the people who are going to cast their votes
for the presidency, you have senator graham, senator mccain, who are all on board, hookilook fort outp for the output for the investigation. so i do not understand why we are not seeing more delivered to our senators on a bipartisan approach to deliver the goods on the very hard work they've done to bring this analysis and to bring this conclusion. >> tom nickles that would seem that if they aren't ready to go full public with it it seems that they could do the gang of 12 style briefing where they brief the leaders of the intelligence committees and the leaders of the house and senate. >> that's true, and i also find it unusual, because the president-elect, unlike most politicians i've ever worked with, most political leaders can't get enough information. they actually are almost insatiable for more information rather than simply dismissing things out of hand. but the other problem here of
course is the problem that the intelligence community always finds itself in, which is that it wants to bring forward evidence of a problem and then of course skeptics say bring out all of this classified material that you obviously share publicly. and if it's not shared publicly, it didn't happen. it's an impossible demand at some point, but i think that's absolutely correct that certainly senators and senior members of congress can get briefed on these kinds of matters, of course. >> we now have the news of rex tillerson of secretary of state. we have, as rachel pointed out at the end of her hour, we have a president with no governoring experience, no diplomatic experience, a national security adviser with no governing experience, no diplomatic experience and now a secretary of state with no governing experience, no diplomatic experience.
>> lawrence, remember the comment "friend of bill"? and wie've got a friend of vlad situation. we have the national security advise irar and state, they sha this situation of being a friend of putin. as an american i find it absolutely disturbing that we have that nexus in these three positions, and we've got a developing problem that, i don't know how we're going to resolve it. >> it's hard to think in those three, in the president, national security and secretary of state how they could possibly be any more pro vladimir putin, how they could, in any way, be more positive about putin.
>> and that's the problem is that in any one case you might say, well, it's actually good to have somebody on the team who has good relations with russia, who has some understanding of the president of russia as a foreign leader. and speaking for myself, it makes me uncomfortable when you have enough people in the room who think that vladimir putin is, who basically share vladimir putin's world view, and i think this is something that's really important to ask to the nominees, the degree to which they do share that world view. i think it's fair to worry about whether or not this is going to provide solid and unbiased advice to the president during, particularly during a crisis. that's the other thing people aren't thinking enough b thatab. during a crisis, lack of experience becomes crucially, vitally, fatally important, and i think that's a big worry.
>> you're getting nods here from general eaton. talk about that crisis situation. >> roger that. you are going to be presented with a crisis, it's going to happen. and a lot of people speak in terms of the first crisis is going to be north korea. we lohse tst the opponent of an outcome when we disenfranchised the chinese relationship with the taiwan phone call. so he is going to get a crisis. and he has a team that is immature. it is probably not going to be fully manned. and he is not going to have those people in the room who are going to be sage and wise anding able to hay out a palay out a p the crisis. so many bad things can happen in that. and there are a lot of branches and sequels with what this crisis can perform.
after the unique china relationship, when the president-elect took that phone call from the president of taiwan, we committed a very, very serious mistake. and one of the things that china has in its possible responses is that north korea will not have china to manage the outcome of the most likely crisis this administration is going to be faced with. >> and in the group we just mentioned, zero experience with china. >> zero. >> zero. general eaton, thank you for joining us. >> thank you. >> tom nickles, thank you. coming up, will donald trump's pick for secretary of state get through the confirmation process. remember, there has never been a fbi background check on rex tillerson. also more breaking news. donald trump won't tell us now what he plans to do with the possible conflicts of interest in his business. he's scheduled a press conference for this week about that. that press conference has now
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the one thing you cannot call the last presidential election is landslide. >> we had a massive landslide victory as you know, in the electoral college. >> massive landslide victory. the united states has had 58 presidential elections. 45 of them, the electoral college winner got far more than the 306that donald trump is expected to get when the electoral college meets on december 19th. many have won in landslides, fdr, nixon and reagan all got more than 500 electoral votes.
barack obama won far more electoral college votes than donald trump, bdonald trump wil continue to say that he got a landslide, can't talk about the other thing, the vote, the actual votes in which hillary clinton got about 2.8 million more votes than donald trump. the latest national vote don't shows her at 2.8 million more than donald trump. coming up, what trump republicans see in vladimir putin. why? what is it? what is the attraction to vat mere putin? that's next. don and i met because i'm a
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there's no doubt about the hacking. let's establish that. i was hacked into. my campaign in 2008 was hacked into. so there's no doubt about the hacking. but it's all part of the larger threat we face from russia, china. it's a threat to our national security. >> today senator john mccain was one of the republican senators countering donald trump's refusal to acknowledge russian interference in the presidential election. senator mccain described russia as an adversary waging yet another form of warfare. but drum's wick onald trump's w
republican party doesn't see it that way. before trump, republican leaders generally described the united states as fighting an ideological struggle fwenls the enemies of freedom. now trump and his advisers describe fighting a struggle against the enemies of the west seen through the very different lens. muslims look more nefarious, and vladimir putin looks more benign. many who opposed the soviet union because of its atheism now view russia as christianity's front line against the new civilizational enemy, islam. joining us, the washington bureau chief for "mother jones." what do you make of that, because vladimir putin has certain problems with islamic
terrorism even within his realm, and because he's fighting that he is the friend of others who are fighting that. >> i think it's ingenious but way unnecessarily complicated. i think you can explain how most republicans are reacting to putin now is that when this hook gets into you, you are dragged to places you would never have gone. now the party is trapped. it's got this president-elect that is deeply compromised by russia. we may learn more compromised than we dare fear right now. the compromises will continue to come. and the challenge for republicans is, you either say something, in this case you are either out, you cause the future president political problems, or you swallow one more toad. and every day in washington for the republican senators for breakfast, it's toad, lunch
toad, and dinner double toad. >> frog legs. >> there are reports of these white nationalist, treatmeextre types describing russia as the last great white power. >> they like to call themselves alt-right. but a lot of them do look at vladimir putin in the ways peter beinart described. he's standing up for a master race of slaf ickes and preserving a european identity. i don't know how far that extends into the republican matter establishment. i think david from has a good analysis that it's basically opportunism. but you're being trapped because of opportunism. trump won and you're not going to take him on because you want the benefits of trump's victory.
so you saw mitch mcconnell give this statement in which i looked hike he was swallowing a toad or something worse. he could barely get out the words, and he said but russia's not our friends. but his wife has got and job because the guy who putin wants in the white house is in the white house. so on facebook you can call this complicated. it's very complicated. >> the point of view from russian foreign policy, it is true russia flows money to all sorts of white nationalist parties through europe. we know about france and other such parties. but they also opportunistically work with other parties who are not white nationalists. there's a lot suspicion that they help the scottish white nationalists. their bowl goal is to smash nat that this country with the gdp of italy can make itself stronger by disabling the connection between the united
states and europe. >> we talked about rex tillerson becoming secretary of state. his love affair with putin is not because white nationalism or keeping islam's civilization in check. it's because he wants to drill, baby, drill with places where russia has oil. so you have this convergence of donald trump. i do think you're right. and i've raid aboead about this. you have the alt-right, tillerson who wants to get in there and make hundreds of millions of dollars for exxon, and the republican party is really caught between all this, and i think john mccain's head is going to explode at some point. >> there are mplenty of reasons why secretary of states usually come from government, revealing their tax returns as senators,
filing financial disclosure forms as senators, submitting to fbi background checks if they've been in the government before. here's somebody who's never been through any of that. no one's ever seen a tax return of his. he's never been checked out bit fbi. there's men at thplenty to wond whether he'll be able to cross the threshold. >> he's a ceo, he's not a donald trump. his tax returns will probably be pretty orderly, and although the numbers will be impressive, they will not show he has not paid tax. the most upsetting person in the administration people want to continue america's traditional view about russia is michael flynn, the national security adviser. he's not senate-confirmed.
if you had a normal national security adviser and general mattis at defense who's a reasonably normal secretary of state of defense and a business republican who wants to do more business with russia and a normal national security adviser in between you would be less worried with this national security adviser, the senate may attack where it can, not where it would hilike to but can't. gentlem yeah, they will feel like they can't trust a system. coming up, we have more breaking news on donald trump canceling that news conference for thursday, the one where he was going to explain how he was going to solve any conflict of interest with his business. that news conference has now been postponed till at least next year.
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remember the melania press conference? it aelts press conference that donald trump promised that melania trump would give, showing us all of the documentation of her immigration records to this country and proving that she never worked illegally here. donald trump promised that. he said it would happen in a couple weeks. it was back in the presidential campaign. and it's more than a couple weeks later. it's never happened, that's why you don't remember the melania press conference. and now the trump transition
team is confirming that donald trump will postpone a press conference that was scheduled for thursday of this week. that press conference was supposed to be an announcement of how he would eliminate any conflict of interest issues involving his business while serving as president of the united states. that press conference has now been postponed from thursday to we do not know when. they're suggesting that it will be sometime next year, before january 20th, but, you know, the melania press conference, that was supposed to be just a couple weeks, just a couple weeks from the time donald trump announced it. still waiting for that one. joining us now, steve mcmahon and david corn. steve mcmahon, another press conference scheduled. another press conference taken offer the -- offer the schedule.
i think when he was elected president, he said presidents don't have real conflicts. it's going to be a real problem. >> david corn, surely he's not going to do anything real about it. that's what we're coming to. calculation, better that we wait till around the inauguration to announce that we're not going to do anything about it. >> or even not announce. i think it's an open question whether he will ever have a press conference again. >> yeah. >> i mean, the media went nuts when hillary went all those months without having a press conference conference, and it was wrong. he hasn't had one in months as well. and i don't think he sees a need for it. and the explanation they gave
today is that he's too busy putting his cabinet together to focus on these possible constitutional violations. but at the same time, he's not too busy to watch alec baldwin. he's not too busy to go out on these thank you tours. so he has time to do all sorts of things, but he still can avoid the daily briefings of intelligence, and now bear down on this. like we talked about in the other segment. it's going to fall upon republicans to decide just how much they can stomach. so far it seems hikelike a lot. ask maybe he's getting ready to release his tax returns. >> let's listen to kellyanne conway's explanation for this. >> it does make more clear how convoluted and complex many of these business holdings are. his expectation remains that he will cede operational control to his adult children and other corporate officers whom he trusts and have worked for him
for many years so he can next 100% of his time and attention on being president of the united states. >> no anyone who knows anything about conflict of interest knows that that does not release any of the conflicts of interest. they're all still present. but the trump voter doesn't know that, the general public generally doesn't know that. what's the likelihood of any of this sticking to donald trump? >> the trump voter doesn't care and probably doesn't know and they -- >> republican members? >> i think at some point the pressure's going to get pretty freigh great. are you going to have democrats asking questions and republicans who can't dodge those questions any longer, they'll do other things to shed a light on this. and i think it's easy for the republicans right now to say we're going to give him a little bit of room. but at some point, they're going to start to say, we have to see something from him. and i actually think the republicans will do that.
h >> well, elijah cummings has called on jason chaffetz, during the campaign he said we're going to go after hillary whether she wins, we're not going to stop any of this. elijah cummings has written letters and called saying can we look at some of these matters and silence, crickets. nothing coming from there. i think we may have to wait for a teapot dome scan dedal. i think we're going to see a lot of possible corruption. and that may change the equation for some republicans. >> most of these voters believe politicians are innately corrupt. and so far he's not turning out to be very different. it's a cabinet full of billionaires and folks close to
vladimir putin, and his voters are going to see that and understand it and it's going to be a problem for them. >> thank you. coming up, some members of the electoral college now want an intelligence briefing for the electors who will cast their votes for president on december 19th. they want to hear what the cia knows about the russian hacks. there is no typical day. there is nothing typical about making movies. i'm victoria alonso and i'm an executive producer... ...at marvel studios. we are very much hands-on producers. if my office...
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weigh in on. ? that was tjennifer palmieri talking to rachel maddow, talking about the ten members of the electoral cheollege now askg for a briefing into russia's hacking deliberately in favor o briefing before they vote to make donald trump the president of the united states. john podesta said this. it raises very grave issues. the electors have a solemn
responsibili responsibility. how big is the demand among the electors for this information? >> it's driven by democratic electors. in places where hillary clinton won they're the one driving this. one is christine mospelosi. >> electors, it's very common for them to turn out to be relatives of officeholders. >> it's an honor to be an elector. they're kind of getting a real-time civics helesson, the presidential election hasn't really happened until the 19th. >> one republican involved. that's the republican from texas who has already said he's not
going to vote for donald trump. >> exactly. he's the only republican so far who said he's not going to cast his balance hot flot for donald. for this to quiinfluence the election you would need at least three dozen more republicans. >> you need 37 electors, trump electors, basically, to switch this position. >> that would be so far beyond unpregs dented. we've never had more than six against a presidential candidate in the history of the country, so we're ereally talking about scale we have never seen. but the democrats who are wanting to see this are lobbying their republican counterparts. they haven't received anything formally.
i think what they are trying to do is really draw attention to the fact that there are these g unanswered questions and the fact that the electoral vote hasn't happened yet. and maybe they can force answers and put donald trump in an uncomfortable position. coming up, the amazing story of the african-american jazz musician who spends as much time as he can talking to members of the ku klux klan. then she came to louisiana as a slave. i became curious where in africa she was from. so i took the ancestry dna test to find out more about my african roots. the ancestry dna results were really specific. they told me all of these places in west africa. i feel really proud of my lineage, and i feel really proud of my ancestry. ancestry has many paths to discovering your story, get started for free at ancestry.com
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tv show "downton abbey." he says he's innocent and any errors were quote, honest mistakes. >> i have full confidence in my legal team, full confidence in the good people of this community and i'm confident that in the end justice will prevail. thank you. >> aaron schock's trial is scheduled to start february 7th. coming up, meet daryl davis, that's daryl davis in the blue shirt. one of his favorite things to do is to meet members of the ku klux klan. gabe's obviously really sick. and there's a lot that he isn't able to do, and make-a-wish stepped in. we had to climb up the mountain to get the injured hiker. he fell from, like, a rock. he's been the one that has been rescued so many times. he said to me, "today, i got to be the hero." (avo) the subaru share the love event has helped grant the wishes of over twelve hundred kids so far.
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>> so it's racist. >> i wouldn't say it's racist. >> so what is it in. >> it's geared towards white people. >> daryl, you're going to explain what you're up to. we're going to take a break, you're going to explain it all. we'll be right back. when a moment spontaneously turns romantic, why pause to take a pill? or stop to find a bathroom? cialis for daily use is approved to treat
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like me who will say to you that yes, white people came here, they took over this land from the native-americans. they built this country on the backs of my ancestors, on the backs of black slaves, so now where's my mace in this country in. >> well, first off, i would like to hear some words of appreciation, think of the thousands of farm boys who died in a field in the sill war and spilled this blood that eventually purchased the freedom of the african slave, and i never heard anybody say thank you. >> why does daryl davis talk to klan members? here's why. >> we don't agree with everything, but at least you respect me to sit down and listen to me, and i'll respect him to sit down and listen to him. it hasn't changed my views on the klan. it's been cemented in my mind for years. >> we kept on doing that. he and i became the best of
friends. and over a period of time, that cement that was in his mind that held his ideas together began to crack. and then it crumbled. and then a few years hater roger kelly twit the cku klux klan. and when roger kelly quit the ku klux klan, he gave me his robe and hood, okay? this is the robe of the klan leader. the same one that you saw him wearing in the video. >> joining us now, daryl davis, he is a blues musician who's traveled the country for decades, attempting to befriend white supremacists, also the director of the documentary titled, "accidental courtesy." what got you started on this in. >> as a young child, i'm 58 years old now. at the age of 10 i had a racist
experience. >> where did you grow up? >> i grew up all over the world. i never had any racial problems overseas. i only had them here in my own country. how can you hate me when you don't know me in so nobody could answer the question. as an adult, i figured, who better to ask than a person who would join an organization whose whole premise is hating somebody who does not like like them and does not believe like they brief. . >> do you think it was your experience living outside the united states that gave you the audacity to ask these questions in. >> i think so. i experienced the klan as another culture. i was in classes with italians, french, germaniens, nigerians. here, black kids and white kids or just black kids or just white kids. so overseas, i was living 12-15
years ahead of my time. because that scenario had yet to come here. >> matt, how did you discover daryl, and what gave you the idea to do a documentary about him him? >> well, first, thank you for having us. i watch the show. i appreciate it. i read a story about daryl in a newspaper. i was intrigued. race is such an issue in this country, and yet we approach it over and over again from the same angle and never wonder why we don't get a different result, and here was a man doing it differently. >> and daryl, i understand how you can hang in there when you start to feel you're making progress with someone. >> absolutely. >> but that first, when you first come up against hard core racists, how do you hang in there in that conversation? >> because i knew what to expect. i had bought, i have a vast library. every book on black supremacy, white supremacy, the ku klux klan, the nazis in germany.
i was well versed in it and knew i can rise above it. >> is there a version of yourself that you bring into your encounters where you're hyperconscious of how you're behaving with these guys? >> i think when you go into a situation knowing what to expect you have it under control, if i were to be walking just out here on the street and somebody yelled some racial ep threat at me, i might not be prepared. >> exactly. a whole different thing. >> what did you discover about it, what is is the biggest thing you've learned by following daryl around in. >> he makes himself available, really listening to people. obviously, e-mail and facebook are how he meets people. but once he meets them, he really listens to them and they have to listen to him through that exchange. and i think we've lost track of that a little bit. >> this is someone who's chosen to meet you.
he could have chosen not to meet you. so there's something there sglus that choice. >> well, initially, those who chose to meet me did not know i was white. i had my white secretary contact them and specifically not tell them i was black, so they didn't find out until i showed up at their home. >> what was the pitch? >> saying, my boss is writing a book on the ku klux klan, would you be willing to sit down and interview with them? >> so you arrive. >> and they freak out. >> what's an example of a freak out? >> in some cases there was a physical altercation, other times they would say i don't want to talk to him. other times after they got over the shock they would invite me in or come over to my hotel room. >> did you sense a need to prove to you that they are decent hume
beings? >> we don't hate anybody. we just love our own kind. well, if you who have your own kind, why can't i help you love your own kind? we can love each other. >> we are out of time. an amazing story. thank you for if you love your , why can't i help you love your own kind. we'll all help each other. >> thank you for coming in, daryl. the name of the documentary again is "accidental courtesy." everyone should see this. it's really great. msnbc continues into "the 11th hour" with brian williams. that's next. tonight just hours away from an official announcement donald trump has picked as secretary of state. could his fate be tied to russia and putin? >> he said he doesn't believe those intelligence findings on russian hacking but at