tv Hardball With Chris Matthews MSNBC December 19, 2016 4:00pm-5:01pm PST
home. i'm ari melber. you can find me on facebook at facebook.com/arimelber. and if you want, you can e-mail me at firstname.lastname@example.org. i'll be guest hosting again tomorrow at 6:00 p.m. eastern. see you then. "hardball" starts right now. the electoral college makes it official. donald trump surpasses 270 and wins the white house. let's play "hardball." good evening miami joy reid in new york, in tonight for chris matthews. we're following breaking news at home and abroad. a gunman shot and killed the russian ambassador to turkey earlier today. the attack was caught on camera, as the ambassador was speaking at an art gallery in ankara. the gunman, an off-duty police officer, shouted in turkish, don't forget aleppo, don't forget syria. meanwhile, there was devastation at a christmas market in germany
tonight. a truck drove through a crowd in the center of berlin, killing at least nine. there's also news on the russia hacking story. an nbc news exclusive report tonight has new details about how serious the obama administration's response became on october 31st, in a highly unusual move, the administration sent a message to the kremlin, using the so-called red phone, warning it not to interfere with the u.s. election. we'll have more on those stories coming up, but we begin with a big political news of the day, across the u.s., state electors cast their vote for president, and trump surpassed 270 in the electoral college. but the electors were met by thousands of protesters, pushing them to deny trump an electoral win. this weekend, donald trump praised the electoral college. >> the electoral vote -- and i never appreciated it, until now, how genius it was, what they had in mind, because at the time, they didn't want everybody going to boston and new york.
and everything else would be forgotten. and now it's the same thing. it's genius. >> so genius is not how trump described the electoral system back in 2012 when he incorrectly tweeted that mitt romney won the popular vote but lost in the electoral college. in fact, barack obama barack obama won by about 5 million votes. back then, trump told his twitter followers, this election is a total sham and a travesty. we are not a democracy. and he added, the electoral college is a disaster for democracy. he also tweeted but later deleted this. "he lost the popular vote by a lot and won the election. we should have a revolution in this country!" to repeat, president obama beat mitt romney by 5 million votes and an electoral college landslide. now, of course, trump's view of the electoral college has changed. he is now, of course, a fan. meanwhile, a brand-new nbc news/"wall street journal" poll out this evening shows a majority of the country isn't hopeful about a trump presidency. 54% say they're uncertain or
pessimistic. only 45% they're optimistic or hopeful. jacob soboroff is in washington. tell us how the scene looked earlier today where some protesters had gathered. >> reporter: it was a fascinating thing to see, but it was not exactly a squeaker, as some had hoped. ultimately, what happened here was we saw two faithless electors vote for a candidate other than donald trump. one vote went to ron paul, believe it or not, and another went to john kasich. as a matter of fact, hillary clinton had more faithless electors than donald trump. four defected from her on the democratic side and voted for presidential candidates other than hillary clinton. again, what's really interesting to me about this is that this is a test of online atavism translating into real-world effects. we saw almost 5 million people sign an online petition urging
the electors to vote for anybody else than donald trump. they were arguing that alexander hamilton said that electors can do ultimately whatever they want. that is not what the electors chose to do today, for whatever reason, they had in their own minds as a reason for that. now the electors and their votes will be put in envelopes, quite literally, sent to washington, d.c. a copy goes to the federal archives, another copy goes to joe biden in his role as president of the senate. and those votes will be tabulated officially in the nation's capitol in washington, d.c. and then donald trump will become officially, believe it or not, after all of this time, the president-elect of the united states. and on january 20th, as we all know, the president of the united states on inauguration day, joy. >> jacob soboroff. thank you very much. i think we all remember, al gore, ironically, playing the role that joe biden will back in 2000. very awkward there. and in a statement today, trump
thanked the american people for what he called an historic electoral left siandslide victo. last week he boasted about the size of his victory. >> we had a massive landslide victory in the electoral college. i think the numbers are in and out a 306, and she's down to a very low number. >> why would the cia put out this story that the russians wanted you to win? >> i'm not sure they put it out. i think the democrats are putting it out, because they suffered one of the greatest defeats in the history of politics in this country. >> in reality, trump's victory was not one of the greatest in history. in fact, out of the 58 presidential elections, trump's win ranks 46th. i'm joined now by polly baca, a democratic elector from colorado. thank you so much for being here. tell me what you hoped happen today. give us the scene of what actually happened. >> well, i had hoped today that we would get 38 republicans or electors who would put country
before party and would support, if they -- i really wanted them to vote for hillary clinton, but i knew that that probably wouldn't happen. so then we encouraged them to vote for, you know, a governor kasich or senator mccain or one of the republicans that we know would be a reliable president. anyone other than trump. and we had hoped that if that happened, web as hillary electors would then join them to elect a president who would be responsible and not a demagogue, or not somebody who was indebted to a foreign power. so, that didn't work. then we hoped that maybe we could get, we could deny mr. trump 270 votes. had that worked, then it would have gone to the house of representatives. and so, of course, i'm disappointed today and swomewha troubled by the fact that we could not find 38 republicans who would join us. however, i want to thank those
republicans that did have the courage to withstand the pressure that they received. and vote for an alternative to mr. trump. >> and polly, you know, during the campaign, i was fond of saying about the primary campaigns against donald trump that you really can't beat something with nothing, right? do you think that maybe the hamilton elector strategy suffered because it didn't have a -- didn't vote for this person, this is the alternative to trump. maybe was it a mistake to just say, vote for anybody but trump. had it gone to the house of representatives, they, too, would have voted for donald trump? >> we actually did support governor kasich, but we found that we had to expand it from governor kasich. we actually wanted to see a ticket that would be governor kasich and a vice president, a senator kaine. and that, i think, would have been the unity ticket that would have helped heal our country. >> yeah, well, polly baca in denver, colorado, you've given
us all a civics lesson. this is an electoral college that everyone paid attention to. thank you so much for being here. >> thank you. >> thanks. and donald trump's boast about his fictional landslide victory seems to have had at least one affect, according to a new poll. a majority of republicans, 52%, get this, they think trump actually won the popular vote. the reality, of course, is that hillary clinton currently leads by nearly 3 million votes and then there's former republican congressman, joe walsh, who tweeted this pearl of wishful thinking over the weekend. "i know california is a state and we have to count it, but if you remove california, trump won the popular vote by 1.4 million." joining me now is ben ginsburg and "washington post" opinion writer, jonathan capehart. both are msnbc political analysts. ben ginsburg, maybe you may have wanted to saw florida off of the map in 2000 when you were the general counsel to the republican party, but i don't even remember y'all saying that. what do you make of this idea that republicans are now sort of
deciding that they can't handle the fact that donald trump lost the lure vote, so they're saying, well, let's just discount california? >> well, i think what you can't do is listen to polls. if there's one lesson we learned from this election, it's that sims we should not be listening to what the polls tell us. in this case, if you're a republican voter, you know what donald trump won. if somebody asked you, did he win? you're going to say yes. >> and ben, to stay with you for just one second, are you surprised that there weren't more defectors from donald trump among the electors today? >> no. at the end of the day, the this is a vote that was taken. and a few people trying to play elitist opinion makers and get electors who have pledged to do certain things and vote a certain way, to change their minds, i don't think that that was really in the cards. >> yeah. jonathan, i want to play -- read
you what bill clinton had to say. he told a local newspaper in westchester county last night that donald trump actually reached out to him, called him after the election. the comments were first flagged by politico. and according to the record review, which is a paper in bedford, new york. bill clinton said, yes, he did receive a phone call from the president-elect the day after the election. mr. trump came across as cordial. he said, incredulous, like it was 15 years ago. mr. trump also lobbed what was meant as a compliment about his opponent saying, she was tougher than i thought she'd be. clinton also reacted to trump's claim that he won in a landslide saying, landslide, i got something like 370 electoral votes. that was a left siandslide. shade from the former president. he got a little less than 306. your thoughts, jonathan capehart? >> what do you say to that? what we've seen since election day is a president-elect who lives in his own world where he
won the popular vote, he won in one of the biggest landslide victories in the history of ever is and then decides to call the former president of the united states, bill clinton, and, you know, sort of give a compliment to him about his wife. clearly not apparently being mindful of what that conversation might do to the former president. i mean, his wife lost the election. he took it very personally. and so while i understand former president bill clinton accepting the call from the president-elect, i'm not sure what the president-elect was hoping to get out of it. >> and it is weird, okay? and i'll throw this to either up with of you. i mean, donald trump's campaign trotted out accusers, women accusers of bill clinton during the campaign and tried to force bill clinton to get on stage with them and have to pass them at a debate back in october.
they held this weird press conference before that debate to try to bait the -- i mean, ben ginsburg, can you explain, what could possibly be in donald trump's mind to think that he could have a chitchat, as if it was 15 years ago and they were buds? >> well, i think they're both members of the former presidents club -- or bill clinton is a member of the former presidents club. i think that's a source of knowledge and wisdom for people who have to take on the awesome job of president. so give donald trump for picking up the call, picking up the phone and giving him a call. >> that had to be the most awkward conversation ever. >> joy. let's give mlk credit for actually taking the call. >> he should have put him to voice mail. >> he didn't have to take the call, especially since you reminded everyone, the ultimate indignity of the former president to have all of those accusers there. and if anyone remembers the debate that night, the shots of president clinton in his audience. if his nose and eyes and mouth could breathe fire, they would have. >> let's listen some poll
numbers. according to our new nbc use/"wall street journal" poll, 40% of americans have a positive view of donald trump. to put that into context, trump's favorability before inauguration is the worst in the history of the nbc poll. in 2008, 67% of americans had a positive view of president obama. in 2000, president bush, even after the recount was at 48%. and in 1992, president clinton was at 60%. ben, you went through that recount nightmare with the country. you were the general counsel leading the charge on the republican side. why do you suppose george w. bush was able to come out of all of that and still have a pretty decent approval rating and much more optimism going into 2001 than there is now. >>ic the country as a whole is much more polarized in 2016 than it was in 2000. the florida election was certainly a polarizing event and president bush, despite the narrowness of the victory,
treated it as a pmandate to do what he wanted. he actually got a lot done legislatively. he passed comprehensive tax reform by march of that year. no child left behind, the patriot act, sarbanes-oxley. even the campaign finance bill. all came within that first two-year period. so the point is, is that if you're a president, no matter what your poll ratings may be, no matter what people may say about your mandate, if you go in with your agenda, you'll do fine. president trump will have a republican senate and a republican house. george w. bush had a 50/50 senate and ultimately lost the senate in may of 2001, when jim evers switched. he still got significant legislation through. >> and i think a lot of people will remember that. legislation not so fondly. ben ginsburg and jonathan capehart, thank you both. and coming up, the russian ambassador to turkey is dead
after being shot by a gunman in ankara. and then nine people were killed when a truck plowed into a christmas market in berlin. we'll have the latest on that. and later, a bipartisan group of senators are calling for a special investigation into russia's cyberattacks on the u.s. election. but is it too little, too late? this is "hardball," the place for politics. can i give it to you straight? that airline credit card you have... it could be better. it's time to shake things up. with the capital one venture card, you get double miles on everything you buy, not just airline purchases. seriously, think of all the things you buy. great...is this why you asked me to coffee? well yeah... but also to catch-up. what's in your wallet?
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turkey's capital city of ankara. ambassador andrei karlov was shot by a lone gunman standing behind him in a suit and tie who after the shooting could be seen pointing the gun at onlookers and shouting, don't forget aleppo, don't forget syria. >> a warning, the video you're about to see is disturbing. [ gunfire ] [ screaming ] >> the shooter who is described as an off-duty policeman was killed in a shoot-out with turkish offers. joining us, for more, is ayman mohyeldin. tell us what you know about this gunman? >> we've learned a little more about his identity. he's been identified by turkish authorities, saying he was a 22-year-old policeman. he was part of ankara's riot police, kind of like their -- not like their internal security force, but they're involved in like protests and riot protests and stuff like that. what we don't know yet is motivation. we know that the police have
searched his family home. they've also spoken to his roommate, which is also a police officer, to try to establish if there are any links there. they've gone to his family home and detained his family possibly for questioning. no clear identification yet if he has any links to terrorist organizations or whether or not he was just an individual who was disgruntled by what he was saying in his neighboring country, particularly in aleppo, and decided to act out on that. >> and you can see in the video before the shooting, you can see him standing sort of behind the ambassador. do we know, was he working security at the event? was he supposed to be -- >> what we've learned is he was able to get into the facility, which was being held by the russian embassy there in ankara with his bang. whether or not he was on-duty at the time or assigned to some kind of diplomatic protective detail, that remains to be clear. but i suspect that he was able to get into that facility, we know that for sure, but was then able to make his way around the facility, get close to the ambassador, because people either felt familiar with him or at least he made them feel that he is part of the police force, part of the security at this
facility, and so that's why he was able to get as close as he was to the ambassador. >> very quickly, reaction between the turkish government and russian government? >> both condemning it and calling it an act of terror. vladimir putin, the president of russia, saying the bandits will pay for this, no matter who they will be. not likely to create any rift between the two countries, perhaps escalate russia's role even more in syria. the turkish government saying they will continue the investigation. they're blaming the gullenesque, but they believe it's linked to a larger network of what they call terrorists operating out of the united states. that's who they're blaming for this assassination. >> all right, ayman mohyeldin, thank you very much. appreciate your expertise. and in germany today, a truck slammed into a crowded christmas market in berlin, killing nine people and injuring dozens of others. the driver of the truck was arrested. but police are still investigating, though the white house is calling it an apparent terrorist attack. joining me on the phone is zeke turner, a berlin correspondent for the "wall street journal." what can you tell us about that
attack and do we know anything about the attacker? >> reporter: yeah, i mean, you basically said everything that we can really confirm at this point. there's some explanation going around about the attacker's background, but, we really can't confirm that at this point. it's just, we know, nine dead, including one man in the cab of the truck. that may have been the driver of the truck, who apparently worked for a company in poland who was transporting steel and this black semi trailer to berlin may have been overtaken in this car, and, you know, been the passenger for this attack on the christmas market. we can't even really say it's an attack, yet. but the german interior minister is saying everything points that way. but he's really urging calm, sort of a cool head in this and we probably won't really know more until the morning in europe. >> and just give us a sense of what is going on right now on the streets of berlin, the atmosphere.
>> there's a ton of ambulances at the scene, obviously. you know, berlin is an enormous city. it's very low density. it's not a paris or a london, where sort of waves of panic can spread very fast. so i would say that sort of shock has dissipated in the center of the city streets are empty, as they usually are, after midnight. i was just at the hospital here and the scene is very calm, although there may be some victims inside, it's a scene, you know, there are onlookers, but mostly journalists trying to get and take pictures of the truck. >> zeke turner in berlin, thank you very much, appreciate it. up and next, an nbc news/"wall street journal" poll shows a majority of americans are bothered by russia's interference in the presidential election. now a group of senators want to open a bipartisan congressional investigation. that's coming up. this is "hardball," the plaux. per roll more "doing chores for dad" per roll
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hi, there. i'm gigi stone woods. here's what's happening at this hour. the winter weather system that moved across large portions of the u.s. left 22 people dead from california to maryland. today, more than 180 million americans are enduring temperatures below freezing, including chicago, where it was minus 13. and three people are injured after a gunman stormed into a mosque in zurich, switzerland, and opened fire. two of the victims were seriously injured in the violence. the suspect fled the scene. now back to joy reid and "hardball."
welcome back to "hardball." a bipartisan group of senators has called for a special investigation into russia's cyberattacks on the u.s. here's arizona senator john mccain on sunday, calling for a select committee to investigate russian interference in the just-completed 2016 election. >> the president has no strategy and no policy as to what to do about these various cyberattacks that have possibly disrupted an american election. i'm sure that when vladimir putin was told "cut it out," i'm sure that vladimir putin immediately stopped all cyberactivity. the fact is, they are hacking every single day. in other areas of our military and all kinds of different aspects of american life that they are able to penetrate.
we need a select committee. we feed to get to the bottom of this. and we feed to find out exactly what was done. >> meanwhile, mccain's republican leader, mitch mcconnell, whose wife has been nominated to a post in the trump administration, says he backs a congressional investigation, too, but says it should be led by the senate intelligence committee. mccain and democratic leader chuck schumer disagree. >> the fact that the russians used cybersecurity to hack our infrastructure, our economics, our countries is well known. the fact that they're hacking our political system and trying to influence the jooutcome, as seems to be, that is serious, serious stuff. leader mcconnell has said, let the intelligence committee do this alone. that is not good enough. we want to find out what the russians are doing to our political system, what other foreign governments might do to our political system, and then figure out ways to stop it.
only a select committee can do it. >> an nbc news/"wall street journal" poll reveals that 55% of americans are significantly bothered by the russian interference in november's presidential election. 23% say they're not bothered at all by the news, while 8% said, very little, and 10% say, just some. tonight, nbc news senior investigative correspondent, cynthia mcfadden, reported on the drama that took place between the white house and putin's government, just days before november's election, including the warning sent through the red phone. here's part of that report. >> reporter: by the afternoon of october 31st, halloween, when ghosts and goblins were welcomed to the white house, another kind of drama had already played itself out. two senior intelligence officials, both nonpartisan career officers, tell nbc news that morning began with a highly classified and unusual event at 8:30. using the so-called red phone
system, linked to the kremlin, a message was transmitted. saying that the u.s. would consider any interference on election day a grave matter. >> david corn is washington bureau chief for mother jones and jennifer rube sn the author of "the washington post" right turn belong. thank you both. i want to start with you both. mitch mcconnell had some very specific ideas about the way he thinks it should be done. why are the republicans so adverse to select committees? we saw about eight on benghazi, we saw them on irs, we saw a zeal for them during the obama years. why so passive now? >> i think your question answers itself. evidently, they're very afraid of making too much of a big deal oaf this. and apparently, mitch mcconnell is at the center of this. from reporting, we know he was one of those opposed of going public after they had a briefing by the intelligence agencies,
explaining that the russians were intending to upset the election, were intending to help donald trump. frankly, i don't think there should be a select committee. i think there should be an independent commission akin to the 9/11 commission, which is truly independent. but, listen, the republicans think they're going to get away with this. they think that in the temporary euphoria of having donald trump elected, they will bury this. the intelligence agencies like to operate behind closed doors. they're hoping will sort of forget about this, this will get pushed to the back burner and it will all sort of drift away. and i think john mccain is exactly right. chuck schumer's exactly right. and i think, ultimately, they're going to have to back down and put this in a forum that the american people have confidence in. otherwise, it really does look like donald trump is shilling for vladimir putin. >> and david, there's a certain shamelessness to it all. >> a little? >> one hates to ascribe a quid, a pro, and a quo, but you have mitch mcconnell announcing what he thinks should be done when his wife is literally about to
be working for donald trump, when she got a job out of it, and he did thwart releasing this information or having a bipartisan statement on it, at least, during the campaign. >> how convenient. the whole thing is a quid pro quo with the republican party checking its principles and core convictions at the door, so they can walk into the promised land with donald trump and having these majorities in congress start attacking social programs and doing all the things they wanted to do. you know, i'm happy. believe me, joy, i'm happy to jump on mitch mcconnell here, but he's at least said there should be an investigation, which is a little bit more than paul ryan has done, who seems to run away anytime this is brought up. and i like jennifer's idea of a bipartisan commission. it's something i wrote about a couple of weeks ago, that elijah cummings, ranking democrat in the white house, has proposed. the bottom line here, is that there needs to be a public accounting. the fbi, the cia, the nsa are doing their reviews per the president's order and those may
become public, they may not become public. what happens with intelligence committees often gets bottled up for a long time, but to have a committee, a select committee, or an independent committee, that's part of its job, its description is to make as much public as possible, is absolutely necessary, because we have to know what the russians did. we also need to know how members of congress and people within the obama administration and security agencies reacted to this. and whether they did everything they could to prevent such meddling. >> well, we do know that one of the reactions, jennifer, was the use of the red phone. which i think the last time it was used was during the cuban missile crisis, for the president to directly open up a channel to vladimir putin, to insist that this stop. that seems to make it a pretty serious concern. meanwhile, you've got about 55% of the american people, according to our new nbc news/"wall street journal" poll, saying they're very concerned about this. i'm wondering, what becomes the lever that forces republicans to act? is it marco rubio's ambitions to be president himself? is it -- is there some -- is
there some lever that can force republicans, despite their partisanship, to take this seriously? >> i think there are two things. one, on the way out the door, president obama can declassify a lot of this material and put it out there. and once he does that and it's in the press, i think there's going to be plenty to push the white house and push congress towards a more open proceeding. the other is to use, frankly, the confirmation hearings to do this. we haven't talked about rex tillerson, the ceo of exxon, who lo and behold, happens to be a great pal of vladimir putin. and obviously, both democrats and republicans have an opportunity to make all kinds of questions out there and put them all to rex tillerson in the context of a confirmation hearing. but i think a great deal is going to ride on what the obama administration does before they leave office. >> yeah, absolutely. and you know, david, rex tillerson is one of many putinites that donald trump is bringing with him to washington.
i'm wondering if in your reporting you've been able to figure out, what is it that causes donald trump to be so reluctant to agree that it was the russians? is it his personal affinity? have you been able to find? is it some indebtedness? what is it? >> i think there are a lot of things, and i put out a story today with mother jones about how wilbur ross was working with one of the major russian oligarchs that the trump campaign was even attacking during the campaign and about welcoming wilbur ross in. it's not just rex tillerson, it's across the board. looking at why trump is doing this, i think there's a strong sense of narcissism there, that hasn't -- that has him relating to putin, who has been kind of nice and positive to him, but also, i did a story before the election, noting that a counterintelligence officer from another country's service was sending reports throughout the fbi in the summer, saying that russia has had a five-year long intelligence program to coopt and cultivate donald trump. we don't know all the details about this. we don't know to what degree the
fbi investigated this. whether they found any legitimacy to these reports or not. but there have been lots of business links and we've seen a lot of desire on donald trump's part going back to do business and be considered an important person in russia, up to miss universe in 2013. there's a lot more there to learn. >> absolutely, as malcolm nance asks often, when did he adopt the ideology? that's a key question. when did he adopt this pro-russian ideology and hopefully we'll get more reporting on that over the next four years. david corn and jennifer ruben, thank you so much. >> thank you, joy. >> thank you. up next, state electors met today across the u.s. to cast their votes for president. and despite some protests, trump did, with indeed, pass the 270 threshold. the roundtable is coming here next. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics. crest complete presents sugar shield
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welcome back to "hardball." that was hillary clinton played by "snl's" wonderful kate mckinnon, urging an electoral college voter to dump trump. the "love actually" parody has gone viral. and today the real electoral college voters certified donald trump as the 45th president of the united states. so what kind of mandate have they delivered him? for more, i'm joined by our roundtable, mike lupica, and
phillip bunn, political reporter for "the washington post." thank you all for being here. i am going to defer you to you mike, because you probably know donald trump or covered donald trump more than anybody else at this table. why do you suppose donald trump seems to be so fixated on convincing his supporters that he won in a landslide when he didn't? >> yeah, it starts to sound like his real party is the flat earth society. and, you want to say to him sometimes, dude, you got the gig, okay? you can stop running now. but he -- he is going to -- joy, he thinks the next four years he's going to be carried along by the sound of applause. and that's not the way it works. i don't care if you're the most popular president in history. >> yeah, ask obama about the being carried along thing. it actually really doesn't work that way. let's talk about what kind of a mandate he really has. he is getting in by a very low sort of sneak-in margin. it's not a landslide, even though he keeps saying it is.
what kind of mandate does that deliver to -- >> it's definitely not a landslide, if you look at the percentage of the electoral votes he won, he's in the bottom quadrant, i think. >> he's in the bottom five. >> like, below martin van buren, i think i saw. but he won the election. so, like, this idea of a mandate, i kind of think mandates are overrated. he has a republican senate, a republican house to work with. like, he can do whatever he wants. and what -- like, what's going to stop? what would a mandate give him that he doesn't have now? i think the whole concept a little overrated. i do think that the circumstances of the election where hillary clinton won the popular vote by more than 3 million by the time we're done with this would call for some humility from a more normal candidate. but that's not really part of the trump brand and i don't think that's who he is. so these victory rallies don't really match what actually happened. but i don't know that like having a mandate or not having a mandate really matters. >> you know, that is an excellent point. because, with, you know, barack obama won decisively, particularly in his re-elect, by 5 million votes. he won two times. never, like, in barely.
i mean, he won 360-something electoral votes. it was not even a question. and yet, republicans treated him as if he had lost the election and had been appointed by some outer burro judge in the bronx. they treated him like he had no right to even be in washington, let alone be president. so republicans didn't respect this idea of a mandate when barack obama won. should democrats even respect the idea of a mandate, even if donald trump claims one? >> well, it's an interesting question, in part because democrats have different attitudes towards government than do republicans, right? so the republicans, you know, digging in their heels and saying, we're going to oppose everything barack obama does. republicans as a base are more likely to say, yes, we don't want government doing anything. however, it's important to notice that over in recent polling, we've seen shifts among the democrats. democrats are more liberal than they used to be. they're more likely to say they support democrats on capitol hill dragging their feet. it will be interesting to see what happens there. but it's a fairly simple formula here, which is that donald trump wanted to win and he lost the popular vote and he's mad about
it and that's why he keeps talking about it. >> it's arguable that the person who thinks he has a mandate is really paul ryan. do you think paul ryan, does he then go through and go ahead and gut medicare, go after social security? these are the things he wanted to do his whole adult life. does he do it? >> i think he tries. it remains to be seen who's really running the white house? >> like, is trump going to be doing these victory tours and -- >> that's what they said during the campaign and primary. >> ryan is going to have to overcome the stomach problem that he showed too often during the campaign, which was no guts. and if he wants to be the next thing in this party, maybe this would be a good time for him to show some. >> yeah. is guts going after medicare? >> well, i mean, it is from the standpoint that we know it will be a big political fight. but, look, paul ryan, yes, he has a house that has been with him for years now. the republicans, you know, have a solid majority in the house. and this goes back to your point about mandates. that is enough for them to say,
we have a mandate to do what we want to do, even though donald trump stood against those things in the campaign. >> the roundtable staying with us. and up next, the clinton campaign chairman reveals exactly when he heard from the fbi about his e-mail being hacked. this is "hardball," the place for politics. world ugly and messy. they are the natural born enemy of the way things are. yes, ideas are scary, and messy and fragile. but under the proper care, they become something beautiful.
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i will share this with you, chuck. the first time i was contacted by the fbi by the fbi was two days after wikileaks stopped dropping my e-mails. the first -- >> two days after? >> two days after. so october 7th -- october 7th, let's go through the chronology. on october 7th, the "access hollywood" tape comes out. one hour later, wikileaks starts dropping my e-mails into the public. one can say those things might not have been a coincidence. >> okay. >> two days later, the fbi contacted me and the first thing the agent said to me was, i don't know if you're aware, but your e-mail might have been hacked. i said, yes, i was aware of that. >> that -- we are back. that was clinton campaign chairman john podesta telling chuck todd that the fbi did not
reach out to him until two days after his hacked e-mails appeared on wikileaks. he added that the did not hear from the agency since. so did the comey letter cost hillary clinton the election? for more on that, i'm back with my round table. does the fbi -- how does it get its credibility back at this point? it does seem that they were in the partisan position in the campaign. >> i feel as though that's a subjective assessment. comey has said the reason he released the letter when he did, he knew that this information would come out. he knew they had this additional laptop with hillary clinton and get ahead of it. here's the thing, hillary clinton should not have been in a position where the comey letter should have killed her candidacy. this comes back to john podesta. john podesta's job is to win that campaign. she lost the campaign. did the comey letter help? absolutely, it didn't. she should not have been in a position where it would tip enough votes in enough states to -- >> and the fbi also apparently
knew, acarding to what we just heard, that john podesta was being hacked. two pieces of information, one was hurtful to hillary clinton, one harmful to donald trump. >> it makes it more concerning and questionable why comey released that second letter but i think comey's mistake was in july. >> yes. >> when he held the press conference clearing hillary clinton saying no prosecutor would file criminal charges based on this information. that set the precedence for him. i don't think he was being partisan. i don't think james comey necessarily wanted to help elect donald trump but i think he was caught in a bind and was covering his own butt a little bit and saying i already made this statement. this will laeak and -- >> and so went hacking. >> and now the plot becomes more -- >> absolutely. >> it started in the summer
where he started talking like he was a perp, you know, to the point where you started to wonder if he was ever going to run out of saliva. you're 100% right. it started then. and that is why john mccain is a thousand percent right. you cannot leave this to the intelligence community which starts to -- the committee. which starts to sound like an oxymoron. you need a select committee. one of the people i want to see hauled into that committee is james comey who can describe the conduct of his department from the time he first learned about russian hacking. >> but soon comey will be working for donald trump. 77,000 votes in three states. if only 1% of votes of impacted negatively, that's the margin. he's going to be working for donald trump. how does he have an independent
reviewability. >> i think a lot could happen with james comey's career moving forward. the big question is what donald trump will want to do with this thing. donald trump -- there's very little indication that on the whole, republicans and donald trump are interested in figuring out what happened here. lee go back and note that part of the challenge with the hacking stuff was "the new york times" reported last week that was tricky as far as the administration was concerned. >> but if i'm trump, i'm wanting to get behind this investigation and get to the bottom of this. if there's any pushback from him and his people, other people are going to say, are you trying to hide something here? >> the round table is sticking with us. you're watching "hardball," the place in politics.
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and we are back. annie, tell me something you don't know. >> ivanka and jared are school shopping in washington, d.c. -- >> are what shopping? >> schule shopping. they may also be shoe shopping but they will be attending regularly, walking to services and -- >> >> mike? >> i was talking to john mccain
yesterday, somebody that we need more than ever, about the dumpster fire that american politics has become and he was talking about john glenn who he called the most honest, decent man he's ever known. >> yeah. and i think everyone can agree on that. there's not much all americans can agree on but i think they can agree on that. >> you pointed out earlier there were 77,000 votes in three states that made the difference in this election. on average, we're talking about .6 percent. that's a good field get out to vote campaign which is another sign that the clinton campaign dropped the ball because this is called the field goal units come in and win the game and they didn't win the game in the end. >> and you think the biggest mistake is field? >> absolutely. >> it's field, the biggest mistake? >> i think they ran an awful campaign, marginally better than eight years ago. >> annie? >> not going to wisconsin. >> go to philly and wisconsin.
that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. "all in" with chris hayes starts right now. tonight on "all in" -- nine killed in berlin. tonight, the continue der box trump inherits and the real world danger of his twitter fight with china. plus, electoral college protests around the country. where does that energy go from here? and from striking deals with news outlets for coverage they could control to word that the trump rallies may never stop. >> they are saying as president he shouldn't be doing rallies. >> robert rich on fears of a never-ending campaign when "all in" starts right now. >> well, this is a w