Skip to main content

tv   All In With Chris Hayes  MSNBC  December 19, 2016 5:00pm-6:01pm PST

5:00 pm
that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. "all in" with chris hayes starts right now. tonight on "all in" -- nine killed in berlin. tonight, the continue der box trump inherits and the real world danger of his twitter fight with china. plus, electoral college protests around the country. where does that energy go from here? and from striking deals with news outlets for coverage they could control to word that the trump rallies may never stop. >> they are saying as president he shouldn't be doing rallies. >> robert rich on fears of a never-ending campaign when "all in" starts right now. >> well, this is a way you get
5:01 pm
an honest word out. good evening from new york. i'm chris hayes. in 32 days, donald trump will become president of the united states. electors in all 50 states formally voted for president and officially awarded trump a majority of votes in the electoral college. it's a routine part of the presidential election process, like so much in 2016 was anything but routine this time around. more on that in just a moment. donald trump is now on his way to taking the oath of office on january 20th and today events around the globe provided a grim reminder the world he's about to inherit is a continue der box. tonight, at least 12 people are dead and dozens injured in berlin after a truck plowed through evening crowds in the german capital. the truck was registered in poland and may have been stolen. police arrested a suspect believed to have been the driver. they have yet to determine if it
5:02 pm
was a deliberate attack and much less if it was terrorism. but isis and al qaeda have called for truck attacks and isis claimed responsibility for one such attack in nice, france, where a truck barrelled through a crowd celebrating bastille day killing 18 people. trump responded, "our hearts and prayers are with the loved ones of the victims of today's horrifying terror attack in berlin. isis continues to slaughter christ fens in their communities as part of their global jihad." the deadly incident hasn't been declared an incident of terrorism by the authorities. and the russian ambassador to turkey was assassinated by a lone gunman while delivering a speech at a museum in ankara. the gunman was turkish, a 22-year-old officer in the
5:03 pm
special forces. according to witnesses, the gunman yelled out, don't forget aleppo, don't forget syria, wounding three additional people before being fatly shot by police. russia has been a strong ally of bashar al assad, most recently taking part in the successful offensive to overtake the city of aleppo. president-elect trump responded to the assassination today in a statement, "we offer our condolences to the family and loved ones of ambassador to turkey, andrei karlov. this must be universally condemned." donald trump will take office and russia reaches what may be its lowest points since the cold war. the russian government under vladimir putin was behind hacks targeting the u.s. election. john mccain and chuck schumer are calling for a special select
5:04 pm
committee to investigate what happened. president-elect still disputes the hacking and dismissed it as a political witchhunt. >> it does seem to be a political response at this point because the president is under pressure from team hillary who can't accept the election results. >> the reality of all of this and all of the players that are spinning these reports are doing it for a political purpose, which is to delegitimatize the outcome of the election. >> in a new "wall street journal" poll, 54% said they are uncertain or downright pessimistic about how trump will do as president. i'm joined by ian bremmer. in those days when things are dangling on the edge of press miss, let's start with berlin.
5:05 pm
the context is that angela merkel has their elections coming up, the issue of refugees is extremely strong and like many places across europe, there's a kind of nationalist backlash happening. this in the context of that seems like it could be quite important. >> certainly. berlin, the most cosmopolitan city in germany, in many ways, in the entirety of europe and merkel's popularity has been decreasing, not just on the back of all of the scandals she's had around things like lufthansa and most importantly the refugee issue and what we see now is she's taken a leadership on that and it's been increasingly negatively responded to. populism is growing. there is a concern to link it that trump is going to be supporting the populist in germany and that putin is assertively preparing to manipulate the outcomes in germany and france like he did in the united states. this attack clearly plays into
5:06 pm
all of that. >> on its own, it's a horrifying mass murder. 12 people dead, dozens injured and the point there about intervention, if you have elections happening in france and steve bannon is sitting in the white house as a sort of out-ally of the kind of far right nationalist populist movements and the german intelligence authorities warning of possible russian penetration in the run-up to the election. >> this is where obama needs to be stronger. he only has a few weeks left. he's clearly not going to be able to do much directly against the russians. he had his opportunity. he basically let it stand. the germans and the french are incredibly concerned that the russians are going to have the impact maybe greater than they did in the u.s. and obama needs to reach out and say we need to work on this while obama is
5:07 pm
still president. if there's several countries actually talking about this together with republicans and democrats in congress, this isn't about the legitimacy of the election at all. this is about a national security issue. to drop the ball when he said i didn't want to do anything because it might look partisan in supporting hillary, you can look partisan if the alternative is i'm not going to defend the american national national security and trump has to pick this up. >> there's no way he's going to now, right? >> reince priebus, a couple days ago, said you know we haven't yet heard anything consolidated coordinated from the intelligence agencies in the u.s. he clearly was trying to create a path so that after trump became -- >> as the folks in the white house like to say? >> exactly. if he doesn't do it, this is going to become one of the most significant challenges to his presidency from day one. >> and speaking of russia, we
5:08 pm
have the stunning images of this cold-blooded assassination where, you know, a member of the turkish armed special forces who essentially we think used his i.d. to get into this event. >> correct. >> shooting the russian ambassador, essentially as a kind of quite explicitly, like, this is for aleppo. those two nations -- i mean, those two nation as year ago were absolutely probably the worst point. things have improved considerably since. there's a lot of talk about world war 1 and the assassination of -- you're shaking your head because it may move in the opposite direction in terms of how they interact -- >> if this had happened a year ago, this would have been a very serious risk for direct military confrontation and markets would be all over the place. it isn't. you have to understand that both erdogan and putin are
5:09 pm
authoritarian leaders. they don't worry about the freedom of the press in their country. they don't worry about opposition parties. if they want to use this to solidify their own relationship and use it to whack their own enemies, they will. >> and the turkish government is trying to link this to the goulan movement which they say is behind the coup, that cleric who lives in exile in pennsylvania. when you talk about putin and erdogan, they are in their own ways kind of populist authoritarian ruler who is have kind of really block by block taken apart the fundamentals of democracy, whether they existed in those two countries is another question. do you see trump in that same category? >> the united states is a consolidated democracy and there's massive constraints on what the president can do. but to be very clear, trump's appointed a designated national security adviser has said
5:10 pm
goulin, we should send him back to turkey. that doesn't follow the rule of law that you haven't shown us evidence so we're not going to do that. so clearly there is an inclination, an authoritarian tendency from trump to be closer to these strong men and the alliances matter more than human rights and -- >> and to test how constraining those institutions are, thank you, ian bremmer. >> thank you, chris. president-elect drew ire from china after talking on the phone with the president of taiwan. this weekend, after china took possession of an unmanned drone in the south china sea belonging to the navy and reportedly used for research, trump decided to weigh in on twitter. "china steals united states navy research drone in international waters, rips it out of water and takes it to china in
5:11 pm
unprecedented act." trump followed up with another tweet. "we should tell china that we don't want the drone that they took." expected to be back in the hands of the americans on monday. "xi jinping prepare for rocky relations with the u.s. that trump's real thinking is very difficult toll fathom." and accused of adding fuel to the fire and concluding he seemed emotionally upset but no one knows what he wanted to say. trump is not behaving as a president. former governor of the state of washington, gary locke, joins me now. there are a lot of people who feel that the u.s. has been getting played and rolled by china, that china has done all kinds of things in terms of its
5:12 pm
economic relations, that it has stolen intellectual property and finally someone is going to get tough and crack down on the chinese. what is your response to that? >> first of all, lots of cases have been filed against china and the wto and we have won those and forced china to change their trade policies. we've also imposed a lot of duties and tariffs on chinese goods coming in, raising the price of those chinese goods that have been subsidized by the government unfairly or where they have been sold at below normal market prices. there have been a lot of cases taken against the chinese and i think we have been able to get their attention. more needs to be done, of course. american companies have concerns about intellectual property theft, lack of rule of law. but we're also cooperating very closely with the chinese on many other issues, whether it's climate change, whether it's
5:13 pm
trying to end some of the civil wars of africa and trying to put pressure on north korea to stop producing a nuclear weapon. >> so it appears to me in the early phases of the president-elect's foreign policy to the extent there's a coherent one, it seems to be the reverse of what nixon did. nixon going to china as a counterbalance to russia, we see something that seems a little like the opposite of that, right, getting closer to russia and more antagonistic posture towards china. what are the risks that runs? why not just get really dell lee koes with china, why not harang them daily? >> well, because we also sell a lot of made in usa goods and services to china and hundreds of thousands if not millions of jobs in the united states depend on those goods and services being sold to china. almost 25%, 26% of all of the cotton that our farmers grow are sold to china.
5:14 pm
50% of the hops that our farmer grow is also sold to china and about a kwart quarter of the bow airplanes are sold to china. if we start going into a trade war, if we start imposing, as mr. trump promises to do, a 45% tariff or tax, that will affect the pockets of americans and the chinese will retaliate. they will impose a 45% tariff on all goods going into china and that's going to make it less attractive for the chinese consumers to buy products. they will buy milk powder produced in australia. or they will buy hops and other cultural goods from latin america. they don't have to buy stuff from america. that's going to hurt the american worker. >> what about the sort of military aspect of this? the south china sea is the focal point of tension. there is -- china, in many
5:15 pm
respects, obviously quite distinct for a bunch of reasons but also in president xi, you have someone quite nationalists, we have seen more repression under him, a fear of growing militancy. what's your read on the military situation right now between our nation and china? >> well, obviously some of the actions of the chinese are very alarming. their actions in the south china sea and also to the north with respect to the islands that are disputed between china and japan, we're seeing that build, these military bases out of reefs that used to be submerged and now they have landing fields and weapons on them. we've got to be very, very concerned. so we're working much more closely with our allies in the southeast asian region, whether it's vietnam and philippines and
5:16 pm
australia and many other countries who don't like what china is doing but they are also trading with china and so it's a very delicate balance there. they really want the united states to be strong, to be present and to be basically backing them up. >> all right. former ambassador to china, gary locke, thank you. appreciate it. still ahead, who could inspire ringing endorsements by the same people who brought you the war in iraq? but first, the extraordinary scene across dozens of states as the routine electoral college vote took place. >> this is my america! this is my america! my america! take me out if you must! this is my america! coaching means making tough choices. jim! you're in! but when you have high blood pressure and need cold medicine that works fast, the choice is simple. coricidin hbp is the only brand that gives powerful cold symptom relief
5:17 pm
without raising your blood pressure. coricidin hbp.
5:18 pm
the day that the electoral
5:19 pm
doesn't typically make headlines. but he lost a popular vote by the third worst margin while still winning the presidency since way back in 1824, there was a concerted effort to get the 538 members of the electoral college to stray from voting with the presidential results in their state. here's what that looked like in michigan as protests gathered in lansing, and they shouted "vote your conscience" and here's what that sounded like in wisconsin. >> thank you, for tallying the votes. >> every one of you, you are pathetic. you don't deserve to be in america!
5:20 pm
this is my america! this is my america! my america! take me out if you must! this is my america! you sold us out. listen to your heart! listen to the facts. >> the end result was basically a foregone conclusion. at around 5:30 this evening, texas pushed trump over the 270 vote needed for an electoral college win. and casting votes for ron paul and john kasich, perhaps the irony here is that more electors defected from hillary clinton than donald trump. for instance, in washington state, where clinton beat trump by 16 points, colin powell got three votes, native american tribal leader got one vote and in maine they tried to cast
5:21 pm
votes for bernie sanders. joining me now, anna galland. i had that thought while i watched that video of that woman in wisconsin. there's a lot of liberals and folks that are sympathetic to the organization that had put energy into this moment and there was more contestation here more than normal but where do you see that energy flows now? >> yeah. well, first i should say, today people obviously knew that this was an extremely long shot that today's protests would in fact change the outcome of the electoral college vote but what it did importantly was serve as a marker for what's to come and what's to come is a mass moral accessible opposition movement. some are calling it an opposition movement that is going to stand up and not let donald trump tear apart this country or enact his extreme agenda that he has no mandate to enact. he has no mandate to devastate
5:22 pm
medicare, he has no mandate to deport millions of americans from entering the united states, no mandate to tear apart the clean air and water acts through the nominees that he's bringing in. so today's protests, i think, were a harboringer as we build together in the days ahead to stand up against that extraordinarily divisive demagogue. we need to stay shocked and stay in motion to fight back. >> when i looked at the video of the woman in madison, wisconsin, i thought of tea party protests in that summer in 2009. >> interesting. >> and i remember that got a lot of coverage and all those people are yelling and in some ways kind of yelling intimately, right? they were at a town hall and they couldn't stop the affordable care act from getting passed but there's a degree to which that sentiment was
5:23 pm
organized into something that became quite politically powerful just a year later. how do you understand getting from that point a to point b for folks like yourself and progressives? >> well, i think what you saw today was an outcry. it's basically a cry of despair and rage and frustration and yet where we need to get to, i'm confident we will get to -- >> are you? >> yes, of course. we have to be. we're going to be more creative, more dogged, more fearless and united than at any other point in our history. we have to be. if we're going to survive the next four years with our democracy in tact, we have to be. we cannot trust institutions to save us right now. we cannot look to the republican party to do what it needs to do to defend the republic. we tried that and ta failed. we need to be an inspired, creative and fired up movement
5:24 pm
and peacefully assemble as the constitution gives us right, to stand up and say, we're not going to stand by as donald trump tears apart america. we're just not going to. we're going to keep fighting and we're going to win. and i will say, democrats in congress, community leaders, corporate leaders need to really understand the depths of passion that people feel. >> yeah. >> for the american democracy and the fact that they need to join with us. they need to be out there and be bold and leading as well. >> you know, it strikes me that organizing is very difficult work and it's sort of -- a lot of it can be repetitive drudgery and your organization was founded during the impeachment, a little factoid, and had this real galvanizing moment, the run-up to the iraq war. and you've been an organizer since then. >> yeah. >> does this feel like those -- that previous moment, in terms of what you see in terms of just the intense sity, the passion o people, do you feel like you're getting a flood of donations or
5:25 pm
contacts from members? can you feel -- can you compare it to previous moments as an organizer? >> yeah. so, look, i've actually been telling people that it feels to me like my organizing against the iraq war, which is really where i cut my teeth as an organizer, was a dry run, a trial run or a small trial for what's to come. that was a mass movement. we had a million people in the streets of new york in february 2013, as some folks will remember. but that's nothing compared to what we're going to see. we're going to see people from all walks of life coming out of the woodwork. and you asked are we at moveon, with the incredible uprising from people across the country saying i want to do something? absolutely. my phone hasn't stopped ringing since election day. my inbox is overflowing. i'm sorry if you have sent me a message and i haven't responded. people are saying, number one, give me my marching order.
5:26 pm
and i'm organizing here. we have a knitting club against fascism. can you help me. yes, people are coming out of the woodwork. we need to stand together and if we stand together and organize creatively against things like the muslim ban, against attacks on medicare and for progressive movement in this country, we will prevail. >> anna galland, thank you. >> thank you. one of the most important jobs in the incoming position, the latest trump cabinet pick ahead. see ya next year. this season, start a new tradition.
5:27 pm
experience the power of infiniti now, with leases starting at $319 a month. infiniti. empower the drive. g new cars. you're smart. you already knew that. but it's also great for finding the perfect used car. you'll see what a fair price is, and you can connect with a truecar certified dealer. now you're even smarter. this is truecar. when donald trump first
5:28 pm
announced exxon ceo rex tillerson as his pick of secretary of state, it greeted as an out of the box pick. the key thing to remember is that tillerson is the ceo of the world's largest oil company and whatever the opposite of oil and water is, oil and some more oil, for instance. we already knew that tillerson, seen here in 2013, receiving an order of friendship from vladimir putin, has a very close relationship with russia. not to mention, a half a trillion oil deal with the russian government currently on hold. this weekend, we learned that tillerson was part of a and the last republican president, as you may recall, was chummy with putin. he even reportedly nicknamed the russia leader and this is true, i'm not making this up,
5:29 pm
putie-pute. he's an oil man. now, that same george w. bush is urging republican senators to get over their misgivings and back tillerson for secretary of state and then there's dick cheney, who you'll recall, was the chairman of halliburton. trump and his team are relying on cheney to help ensure that tillerson is confirmed. and that's not all. condoleezza rise is also pushing hard for tillerson. they made money from oil as exxonmobil is a client of their consulting firm. and that's far from the only through line. remember the bush era push to privatize social security? it might be back very soon if trump's new pick for budget director gets his way. that is next. costarred as the daughter. oh, i think it was um...
5:30 pm
chris columbus was the director... it's called claymation... narwhals really exist... actually guys, it was the ghost of christmas past... never stick your tongue on a frozen flag pole... yukon cornelius... "die hard" is considered a christmas movie! that's the unlimited effect. stream your entertainment with unlimited data when you switch to at&t and have directv. when you're close to the people you love, does psoriasis ever get in the way of a touching moment? if you have moderate to severe psoriasis, you can embrace
5:31 pm
the chance of completely clear skin with taltz. taltz is proven to give you a chance at completely clear skin. with taltz, up to 90% of patients had a significant improvement of their psoriasis plaques. in fact, 4 out of 10 even achieved completely clear skin. do not use if you are allergic to taltz. before starting you should be checked for tuberculosis. taltz may increase your risk of infections and lower your ability to fight them. tell your doctor if you are being treated for an infection or have symptoms. or if you have received a vaccine or plan to. inflammatory bowel disease can happen with taltz. including worsening of symptoms. serious allergic reactions can occur. now's your chance at completely clear skin. just ask your doctor about taltz. be a park ranger, i got really excited. now's your chance at completely clear skin. gabe's obviously really sick. and there's a lot that he isn't able to do, and make-a-wish stepped in.
5:32 pm
we had to climb up the mountain to get the injured hiker. he fell from, like, a rock. he's been the one that has been rescued so many times. he said to me, "today, i got to be the hero." (avo) the subaru share the love event has helped grant the wishes of over twelve hundred kids so far. get a new subaru, and we'll donate two hundred and fifty dollars more to help those in need. ♪put a little love in your heart.♪
5:33 pm
during the presidential campaign, donald trump promised massive tax cuts to the rich, a trillion dollar infrastructure program and an explosion in defense spending which would increase the federal deficit. yet over the weekend, trump said his pick for budget director was mickey mulvaney, who is willing to push the country into default in order to reduce spending. >> the national mood now is such that people recognize we can't keep spending this money that we don't have. we need to get back to fiscal
5:34 pm
basics and spend what we've got. >> by the way, that burning your money graphic was aces. he was elected in 2010 as the tea party wave and rebellious group of far-right conservatives who advocated for and after campaigning not to raise the debt ceiling, mulvaney played a central role in the 2013 shutdown. now mu he would have to reduce spending and seemingly impossible task which could result in a dramatic effect, including which they have long sought to reform. or maybe not. the republican vows and the austerity party seem to fall
5:35 pm
away once the party takes over. sam seder is joining me. this is where it's all so fascinating because they really got religion and austerity. they damaged the recovery by the debt ceiling standoff and he's good on the merits and i think we're going to see them go back to george w. bush. >> paul ryan is happy to get mu mull van knee out of the house. he chased john boehner out. now he is probably thinking, now it's your problem. i'm sure that's what he's saying outside of the room. >> mull van knee would be sitting on the other side of the table. >> yeah, that assumes that the trump administration would actually present a budget. >> that's a very good point.
5:36 pm
>> they are going to be rioting and blaming a lot of things on the obama administration and they probably i don't r don't want to put any foot forward. if you look around, there's no cohesion here. >> none. no. >> it seems like donald trump is in the room just basically handing out goodies to the loudest voice or to whoever he thinks is most -- >> sort of most extreme examplar of what that type is. oil guy. freedom caucus founder. >> mulvaney may end up being more craven. he backed away from immigration reform when he got a lot of heat. he may be one of those guys who comes in and says it's time for me to have a transition or not. >> which we've seen before. when we covered the bush administration, there's this story that got told that they lost the bush administration and when you go back to reagan, the
5:37 pm
last time they had unified -- >> it was the exact same thing. >> yes. yes. >> tax cuts for the rich and a lot of spending. that's the recipe. >> it's going to be interesting to see if there's any fault lines there and whether or not this whole freedom caucus thing, even the most extreme, if they are all just sort of pretenders. >> posturing, right. >> we'll see. >> one thing i feel confident of is the only thing that i feel confident of on the legislative side is there's going to be a big tax cut at the top. >> yeah. the question is, how do they do it? one way they may do it is the affordable care act. the one thing that can surely happen will be a tax cut if they repeal it. >> people should listen to this. so everyone understands. the tax cut is -- the aca is highly redistributive as it is and it would be a huge tax cut for the rich. >> and even if they do their plan, which is to punt the
5:38 pm
repeal, we vote to repeal it today but people won't feel the impact from it three years from now, theoretically this is what they are talking about to get it past the 2018 election. the tax cuts could theoretically apply to 2016. never mind going forward. >> right. they could retroactively apply it back to 2016 so when you file your taxes in april -- >> it seems possible. and also what's problematic about na fthat for them is it's going to cost money and the question is where is that money going to come from because they've now given back the funding that allowed for the expansion of the medicaid, they've allowed for the subsidies. >> that's a source of revenue. again, what would be an interesting test here, the word they use to pursue whatever their policy at the time is and we might see democrats doing the
5:39 pm
exact same thing, you know, who are all about deficit -- >> the question is whether or not this will be internalized by democrats. how many times does the football need to be -- >> that's a good point. sam seder, thank you. coming up, why donald trump thinks rallies are a core part of his communication strategy. but first, the reality -- the reported reality of accusations behind voter fraud. thing 1 and thing 2 is next. asmy family tree,ing i discovered a woman named marianne gaspard... it was her french name. then she came to louisiana as a slave.
5:40 pm
i became curious where in africa she was from. so i took the ancestry dna test to find out more about my african roots. the ancestry dna results were really specific. they told me all of these places in west africa. i feel really proud of my lineage, and i feel really proud of my ancestry. ancestry has many paths to discovering your story, get started for free at ancestry.com
5:41 pm
5:42 pm
the issue of voter fraud. >> isn't it amazing they say there's no voter fraud? and voter fraud is all too common and then they criticize us for saying that. how can donald trump complain about voter fraud? there's no voter fraud that goes on. really? really? so many cities are corrupt and voter fraud is very, very common. >> thing 1 tonight, the great
5:43 pm
myth of voter fraud consistently pedalled by donald trump. "the new york times" debunked it again. officials found next to none. the more than 137 million votes cast, 26 states and d.c. knew of no zero cases of fraudulent voting and while some states reported a few dozen claims under review, the survey found no states reported indications of widespread fraud. but "the times" notes while they conducted inquiries to all 50 states, one state did not respond. the state that appeared to be prepping for a voter fraud crisis, and that is thing 2 in 60 seconds. [ crowd noise ]
5:44 pm
whoa. [ gears stopping ] when your pain reliever stops working, your whole day stops. try this. but just one aleve has the strength to stop pain for 12 hours. tylenol and advil can quit after 6. so live your whole day, not part... with 12 hour aleve. so "the new york times" investigated voter fraud and everyone but kansas responded found no states reported indications of widespread fraud. now, what's especially strange is that the issue of vote fraud borders on an obsession for a
5:45 pm
person who administers the elections, kris kobach. washington post dubbed him as the conservative glade dee ate for under the guise of preventing voter fraud. and he appears to be the source for donald trump's recent voter fraud allegation. now, the contingent of republicans pedalling voter fraud conspiracy theories are acting in bad faith and here we have the logical end point, the person tasked with running the elections, who would presumably want to brag about things running smoothly declining to report those positive results if, in fact, the results in kansas looked like every other state in america. "all in" reached out to kobach for comment but received no response. ♪ music playing
5:46 pm
5:47 pm
president-elect donald trump hasn't held a news conference since july. it was much noted by the media
5:48 pm
during the campaign, especially since he would pop up on local tv interviews. while that's not new for presidential candidates, another allegation has surfaced with regard to trump, that his campaign cut a deal with a major media company to try to get better coverage. none other than trump's son-in-law and trusted adviser jared kushner described the deal to business executives at after off-the-record meeting. "kushner said the agreement with sinclair gave them more access to trump and the campaign." in exchange, sinclair would broadcast their trump interviews across the country without commentary," kushner said. they own dozens of stations across the country, including swing states told politico this kind of deal is nothing new. the offer for extended interviews was made to both candidates. trump did a handful of
5:49 pm
interviews while hillary clinton did not. they have already abandoned many norms with regard to the media with the motive of making it more easy to shape their coverage. trump himself has given so little access to the media since the election. trump suggests his rallies may continue even as president but our next guest says the rallies and tweets give trump the unprecedented platform. and pose as clear threat to american democracy. this is how tyranny begins. robert reich joins me, next.
5:50 pm
♪ ♪ see ya next year. this season, start a new tradition. experience the power of infiniti now, with leases starting at $319 a month.
5:51 pm
infiniti. empower the drive.
5:52 pm
5:53 pm
they are saying as president he shouldn't be doing rallies but i think we should, right? we've done everything else the opposite. this is the way you get an honest word out, because you can't give it to them because they are so dishonest. >> president-elect donald trump held the last of his nine victory rallies in mobile, alabama on sunday. the tour only included states won and he said he may continue doing such rallies as president. joining me now, robert reich, who's latest opinion piece in "newsweek" and robert i'll start with you. you argue -- i mean, i'm sort of torn about these rallies because they seem like something new and i wonder how it's being
5:54 pm
refrakted through the perception of trump himself. why do you find it om news if he continues the rallies as president. >> because the pattern and practice of donald trump, whether it's the rallies or this deal with sinclair or the tweets has been the same, and that is to try to communicate, especially with his followers, communicate a lot of lies, bold-face lies without any contradiction, without any press. there's been no press conference since july. i mean, trump has not wanted to face a lot of questioning reporters. and that is dangerous for a democracy because it means that bold-face lies, such as that he's told during the rallies, you know, 45% increase in homicide when in fact the homicide rate has declined or that he's won the election by a landslide when in fact it's almost 3 million popular votes fewer than hillary clinton got or he's saying that there was massive voter fraud.
5:55 pm
all of these massive, big lies that he's telling don't -- can kind of circulate and dominate without any kind of a criticism of these lies. >> and there's a certain, you know -- robert made this point. here's the statement from the trump folks today, the electoral college. today marks an his store cal landslide victory. exceeded the 270 required to secure the presidency by a far larger margin. every politician hedges the truth. sometimes they tell fibs. there's something about the casualness with these lies about something so clearly obviously is untrue, like we can all go look at the record. >> eventually a difference in degree becomes a difference in kind, right? i think anybody who remembers the george w. bush administration, remembers how frustrating it was the way that they very deliberately created an alternative reality and, you know, talked about that they were -- the fact that they were
5:56 pm
doing it as they were doing it. and meanwhile you had the christian right that was sort of creating an entirely alternative reality around history, around all sorts of different things that was kind of less and less overlap between what the two parties and two polarized camps in politics believed but now they have become completely untethered. i remember going down to trump tower when the tape came out and i thought they were going to be angry at the republicans calling on him to step down but what shocked me is that that even happened. >> right. >> so to me it shows -- >> the difference between those two, right. >> so the thing that's particularly dangerous about trump's lies is that they then become pretext for real
5:57 pm
policies, right? so he's lying when he talks about massive voter fraud but they are not lying about the mass disenfranchisement. >> and the other thing that is happening, we hear talk about maybe they will change the daily briefing at the white house, who gets to sit where. there's all of these traditions that have developed, traditions that i think can be -- i have no stake in them continuing but they are traditions which were established in an era which in some way the white house needed the press corps to get out their message and the trade was, we need you to communicate with the american people and so you get to ask us questions and hold us accou accountable. they don't need the press corps to do that so why even have them around? >> fai don't think the trump administration wants the press corps. the whole idea -- the word media comes from the idea of intermediate, between the power and the public, that is, translate, hold power
5:58 pm
accountable and trump doesn't want to be held accountable by the media and so much of what he has been doing has circumvented the media and when he's not circumvented the media with rallies and tweets and the sinclair deal, for example, he's been denigrating the media, calling the media dishonest, kind of turning the public against the media. this is what dictators do and i am not suggesting at this particular point in time is or will be a dictator but this is dangerous for a democracy. >> but michelle, isn't it also the case that all politicians, particularly -- if you've ever listened to bill de blasio talk about the media or bill clinton talk, in some ways, they are all politicians. barack obama the other day said ten minutes at his press conference -- politicians don't like to -- >> it's an adversarial relationship but this is where norms come in to play. other politicians, they are suspicious of the media, they
5:59 pm
want to evade the media. they also realize they don't have the audacity to think that they can cut the media out and trump being restrained is willing to go places and do things that no previous politician has done. >> for instance, one of them is the ritualistic booing of the press pen which is an unnerving tradition that's been part of these rallies. >> exactly. calling the media scum and dishonest and having everybody boo the media and that boo resonating and ricochetting around the country, you do have to have an independent press. this is guaranteed in the constitution and we have a president, a president-elect, that is going to denigrate the press and bypass the press and not have press conferences and dump on the media and invite everybody else to dump on the media, who is going to tell the truth? who is going to criticize the president? who is going to ask hard
6:00 pm
questions? >> robert reich and michelle thank you. >> thanks to you at home for joining us at this hour. there's a very nice hotel in santa barbara hotel. it's called the biltmore. it was built in the 1920s and it's a grand beach front california resorts and one of the cool 1920s things about it is that in addition to the main hotel building, i think it's like a two-story main building for the hotel, in addition to that, you can rent individual bungalows, these little bungalows. they have gardens, there's outdoor seating, essentially these little houses that you can rent at this hotel. and in january 1973, a man rented one of those bungalows at this very nice hotel in santa barbara and arranged a meeting there with two men who he had never met before

40 Views

info Stream Only

Uploaded by TV Archive on