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tv   Hardball With Chris Matthews  MSNBC  December 21, 2016 4:00pm-5:01pm PST

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happening in europe. >> you can always e-mail me at or sign up for my news letter at unpopular vote. let's play "hardball." good evening. when he came outside for a moment he briefly answered questions from reporters. one which of was about the reason terrorist attacks in europe and what it means for his immigration policy. >> i want you to rethink -- >> you know my plans all along
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and it's, they've proven to be right 100%. what's happening is disgraceful. >> it is not the first time that trump has bragged about being right after a terrorist attack. meanwhile he began the morning by doing something more familiar. bragging about his lead over hillary clinton. the final popular vote numbers show clinton leading by nearly 3 million votes. the tally has her winning 48.2% of the vote to trump's 46.1. this morning trump responded to that news in a series of tweets. quote, campaigning to win the electoral college is much more difficult and sophisticated. i would have done even better in the election if that's possible, if the winner was based on pop hard vote but would campaign differently. and i have not heard any of the pundits or commentators commenting on that i spent far less money than the left.
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>> so a rare opportunity. how much content were reporters able to get out of him? not a lot. they did get a few questions to him. they asked if these terror attacks have caused him to reconsider his ban for a muslim ban. i thought his answer was interesting. you heard him take credit for predicting that there would be yet another terror attack but didn't get into the details. the knitty gritty about policy. what we've heard from his advisers, no, he is walking the ban back. that's not what he's been talking about. and i think it underscores that he hasn't given a full press conference sense he's been elected. wasn't that rigorous back and forth when you have a press
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conference. there was one more thing back and forth and that was that they asked him whether he saw the attacks abroad as an attack on christianity. which is what he said in his statement. he walked that back as well. he said this is an attack on all of humanity. that's certainly language that is a little bit softer. that speaks to a broader audience. again, the press corps pressing for a full press conference. we understand that won't happen until january. >> appreciate it. trump's defenders reject the significance of winning the popular vote, chocking up the numbers to how well clinton did in california. they said trump made it better. >> this is the football season. a team can have more yards and lose the game. what matters is how many points you put on the board. the electoral college has the
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points. ironically, the amateur understood the electoral college mattered. the so-called professional forgot that it materedand that's what mattered. >> so does the fact that hillary clinton got 3 million more votes matter? if it doesn't, why is trump bragging about it? thanks for being here. great to be here in person with you. i'm going to let you play armchair psychiatrist and i'll ask each of you. donald trump won the election. the electoral college certified him. why does he seem to be so bothered by this popular vote number? >> a great question. i think he's right there. he won by the rules that you play the game. there's no way to take that away. if you are going to say that it matters, it is only to the extent that he can claim a
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mandate. why does it bother him? because he has a very healthy ego. and this is someone who obsessed over every interview he did. and i think he likes to think of himself as a winner in all facets. so this is what probably gnaws at him at night. >> no. the election deniers are on almost every cable show bringing up this irrelevant fact. she did win by a lot but it doesn't matter. i think he's worried that a.p. test takers. i think every time it comes up, they get a 2 or a 1. he follows the news. he responds to the news. when will we start talking about it? it doesn't matter. >> it is interesting. donald trump didn't always like the electoral college and part of reason, he is still talking about it and can't seem to stop.
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he used to think the electoral college was almost a scam. this week, donald trump did praise the electoral college. >> the electoral vote. i never appreciated it until now. how genius it was. what they had in mind. because at the time they didn't want everybody going to boston and, no and everything, it's genius. >> in 2012 trump had a very different view of the electoral college. trump tweeted i am correctly that romney won the popular vote but lost in the electoral college. in reality, president obama won both quite handily. he called it a disaster for democracy. he tweeted, he lost the popular vote by a lot. we should have a revolution in this country. so yeah, hypocrisy.
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if donald trump had won the popular vote by 3 million vote and lost in the electoral college, he would be calling for revolution. democrats are. i don't know about trump. a constitution alma jort. i love the electoral college. i've always loved it. i'm glad it evolved. >> i think that partisans on each side are a little bit selective in their average on this. i imagine that had the situation been reversed, democrats would have been loving the electoral college. i think he would have been holding a pitchfork.
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>> and they would have been saying the results are illegitimate. >> it is on his twitter feed. >> but that twitter is an! er to way to make a headline. not a revolution. >> you wrote that they are homophobic. when he ends up -- >> he said that? >> that he had been advised to purge all the gay people. >> the family research council called for trump to take to the state department, looking for people. literally quoting that. >> you just maligned me. i never, ever, for the record said trump is homophobic. the family research council called for the state department on purge people pushing the lgbt agenda. >> let's get back here.
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we do want to talk about the electoral college. you have republicans dismissing your state, the state you live in, california, and saying it should be thrown off the map. that 1/8 of this country's population doesn't matter. the reality is, hillary clinton's pop hard vote majority is a fact. and the way it is relative, i would argue, is that it should chasten donald trump in terms of his mandate. it has not. it simply has not. >> you would be crazy to spend a dollar in california if you're a republican. or if hillary did spend money in georgia, it was stupidly spent. >> i think democrats made some ground in texas that could pay dividends in the fuflt we have to get this in. last night bill o'reilly defended the electoral college in the strangest way. he said liberals wanted to get
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rid of it to focus on areas with large minority voters. it would marginalize white voters. >> in the large urban areas and blue states like new york and california, minorities are substantial. look at the land scape. in all of these places, the minority vote usually goes to the democrats. it is ball race. it must be done away with. therefore what better way to marginalize than central the voting cities. they want a pro found change in the way america is won. taking voting power away from the white precincts is the quickest way to do that. >> other than the africaners, i have never mattered particular
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argument for a system. i don't know what he is arguing for. >> i'm not quite sure either. you usually don't say that outloud. let alone in the memo. he was not freelancing there. he is kind of right in some respects. we have an electoral system that puts a lot of emphasis on people going out to urban, suburban areas. the first two are incredibly low populations. they focus white swushian, white working class voters. the electoral college was designed when only white men can vote and therefore it was not designed to oppress black voters. they were enslaved. it was designed for the time of slavery. >> it was small state, large
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state. that's why it works today. >> even putting the origins aside. you can say okay. we have a system. this is true in the 2016 election. you can say it is a great system but he is on to something. if you are operating within that system, you end up emphasizing on issues and focusing on voters that aren't necessarily representative. >> and meanwhile, there are issues facing diers communities that wind up getting marginal itsed. we can debate it another day. >> coming up, happy holidays, merry christmas, happy hannukkah. what will happen to republicans. and
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. if you are a fan of "hardball" and clearly you are, you know there's one movie that chris matthews loves more than any other. and it is love actually. the british romantic comedy that has become a christmas season favorite. well, the "washington post" wanted to check out why chris is so fascinated with the movie so they decided to watch it with him. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> thank you for being here. >> we started with matthews' very favorite moment of the film when the british prime minister played by hugh granted tells off the american president, billy bob thornton. >> has it been a good visit? >> very satisfactory indeed. we got what we came for. >> isn't he great? billy bob. i hear he watches "hardball." >> i fear this has become a bad relationship. >> okay.
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here's why we all like that scene. because we love courage. we love guts under pressure. and we like the fact that he was chivalrous. >> that's great. to go see and read the full story. and we'll be right back. that's why i have the spark cash card from capital one. with it, i earn unlimited 2% cash back on all of my purchasing. and that unlimited 2% cash back from spark means thousands of dollars each year going back into my business... which adds fuel to my bottom line. what's in your wallet?
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speaker paul ryan. i've come to appreciate him. where is he? he has been, i'll till. he has been terrific. and you know, honestly, he is like a fine wine. every day goes by, i get to appreciate his genius more and more. if he ever goes against me, i'm not going to say that. that was donald trump defending speaker paul ryan at one of his
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thank you rallies, booed the republican leader in wisconsin. it is the kind of back lash they could receive if they're perceived as standing in the way of his agenda. numerous republicans have refused to publicly weigh in on any trump proposal at odds with his infrastructure package. stated repeatedly but privately, they're afraid of being attacked by breitbart. they see the unbashed use of his twitter account as the most foreboding threat. and the firm is designed to make sure the priorities of the trump administration become reality. thank you both for being here. i'm going to defer first to the congressman as i like to do.
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this idea that elected members of congress, it is a co-equal branch of government. the idea that people are already intimidated to speak out on things they disagree with donald trump on. that doesn't bode well, does it? all we have are the checks and balances in. >> i think there is just a new governoring reality. for eight years they've been under barack obama. one of the dilemmas is do you vote for the increase or not? the vote doesn't count so you can say anything you want now. they realized, not only do they have to be careful what they say. in the piece in politico they talk about people being afraid trump will sweet at them. which it seems silly to be afraid of tweets.
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people senting threatening messages to them. >> i was in the minority zbis the majority twice. when you're in the majority, you have to be more careful what you say and how you vote. and there are consequences from your own side. for example, a republican want want to be on the wrong side of the nra any more than a democrat would want to be on the wrong side of the afl-cio or the sierra club. with george bush, i had vote for no child left behind right off the bat. a lot of republicans didn't want medicaid d. if it is your party in the white house, you want your party to be successful. and that often meets supporting them in public and there is a great room. hc 5 where both parties are meeting weekly. raise all the cane you want.
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you have a powerful phenomenon, the president has twitter. the last thing you want, he's been undecided. i'll set up my phone calls. what are you doing? the president will be more popular than congress. >> what you're reporting is something very different. there was a particular member who breitbart went after. bill flores. and he didn't even hard oppose the president. here's the example. the republican congressman bill flores of texas offered, it spurred a mob of loyalists to go after him on twitter. one tweeted, get donald trump's way and we will burn your career down until you are reduced to
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selling life insurance. another one, you can go hang yourself. we saw some of this with the fema attacked democrats. but that is more than just the jockeying that the congressman described. >> yeah. i think there are a couple key differences that they're talking about. that so much more of this is happening publicly. it is happening over twitter. it is happening over these websites that didn't exist. it is a much more fragmented environment. and then also, the party leadership does not have the sort of carrots they could use in the past in these private meetings. no ear marks. citizens united blew up the infrastructure. so there's less incentive for these members to kind of come along and reach these behind
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closed door deals. and much more to use the bully pulpit in all these technique that's are available in the panther-on of the bully pulpit to get his way. >> i want to ask but the corey lewandowski pact. will that make even more intimidation happen? >> he wants to help donald trump's agenda from the outside. i think that he'll be able to get a lot of business from folks who want to could not vebls trump, not necessarily folks who want to help trump. who were you talking to and what were you talking about? >> i was a surrogate for trump during the campaign that ended promptly election night. i've been a trump supporter but
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totally on my own. i twlenl because i worked the international law firm. there we had meetings the brussels and sydney, australia, washington, d.c. i met with the american chamber there and getting my two cents. we would have done it if it was hillary clinton or wrs. this is just what we do. the tension is out there. you have hacking, crimea, ukraine, syria. how do you deal with it as business people? these fortune 500 companies. they've been there 30 years. they have something to say and could they be part of the positive relationship? >> we definitely want to continue this conversation and talk with you. i would love to get your take on these conflicts of interests. we'll have to have you back. thank you both very much. up next, as the manhunt continues across europe for the suspect in the truck attack in berlin that killed 12 people.
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12346789 the death toll from tuesday's massive blast in mexico has risen to 32. 59 others were wounded. meanwhile, in columbus, ohio, one person is hurt following a gas leak and explosion. a restaurant was destroyed. and a record 6.4 million people have signed up for health
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insurance through obama exchanges in 39 states. 400,000 more than last year. monday was the deadline for people seeking coverage effective january 1st. back to "hardball." welcome back to "hardball." the manhunt continues across europe for the man wanted in connection with monday's deadly attack in berlin. his name is anis amri. matt, what can you tell us about that manhunt? >> well, we know that he's 23 and turning 24 today our time. tomorrow, your time, joy. you can imagine how he will be spending that birthday on the lam. he fits the profile, if there is such a profile of these lone wolf jihadis who have been
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striking out on their own in the west, inspired by islamic state and later their attacks have been claimed by islamic state. we have seen it in brussels, even orlando. it is not because of their unique belief in some conservative ideology or some as you tear version of islam. it is really the opposite. he's had a long history with police. he's been through six aliases. he's pretended to be at least three different nationalities and he's had issues with cops in three different countries. it is drugs dealing, brawling, alcohol abuse, none of it has any real connection with any form of conservative islam that you and i might recognize. but at the end of the day, the germ an authorities are feeling quite embarrassed that they had this man in their cross hairs and they let him go. not once but more than once. so this manhunt, they have quite a lot of information about this
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man. he was actually pegged for deportation about a year ago. and he wasn't deported because the tunisian authorities reportedly weren't able to verify he was in fact a tunisian when they were planning to deport him. >> so now what's happening is this expanding manhunt. not just here if berlin. not just here in germany but throughout europe. now there is more than 100,000 being offered as a reward for information on this man. and we have no idea exactly where he is. the political implications will be vast. here in downtown berlin, there were neo-nazis facing off a much larger group of counter fascists. and all of this will be in the next election when angela merkel fights for her political life.
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on monday donald trump tweeted, the civilized world. with a month until he takes off, his strategy. >> i know more about isis than the generals do, believe me. if putin wants to go knock the hell out of isis, i am all for it 100%. >> i'm looking at assad and saying maybe he's better than the people we're supposed to be backing. >> you have to go and take the oil. it's over. i would bomb the health out of them. >> i'm going to bomb the bleem out of them. >> i would blow up the i'm thats. i would blow up the pipes, every single inch. there would be nothing left. and do you know what? you'll get exxon to come in there and in two months, do you ever see these guys? how great they are? they'll rebuild that sucker brand new.
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and i would ring and it take the oil. >> we're going to declare war against isis. we have to wyomiipe out isis. >> how would we take oil? heave a certain group behind and take various sections where they have the oil. >> i'm joined now by a former state department spokesperson. so that was an interesting montage. let's unpack that. donald trump has said he would go in and solve the problem by taking iraq's oil and then bombing the oil fields in iraq and syria and then having exxon rebuild it. rex tillerson is about to be secretary of state. how does that resound? >> it resounds quite well with his base here in the united states, right? a very simple message that people can grasp on to. there is something bad in the world and we'll hit back hard. unfortunately, overseas and the
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way reality works in the international order, solutions are a little more complex than that. for instance, just saying bombing oil fields in iraq will stop the isis problem. we have, actually, the united states and the coalition have been bombing in iraq and syria. isis's strategic points and that's part of the problem. as they're losing organizational control in syria, they're moving out into europe. so we've actually increased the problem and the problem to direct western targets. so this is part of the nuance, understanding that it is necessary. it seems like the president-elect is far more interested in pandering to his base. >> it is russia's bombing of aleppo and the devastation there that at least if what we can tell contributed to the gunman who went and killed the russian ambassador. so the exporting of anger and
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terror is tied on what russia is doing. how will that work? >> and russia is playing a similar game. they're telling the rest of the world that the reason they are involved in syria is because they're attacking terrorist targets. what we know from the images, the russians have partnered with assad to oppress what was a civil war and oppressing and killing millions of people, men, women and children. so this is part of the information campaign which trump seems to be doing quite well on that front. the communication effort isn't translaigt as far as we can see into anything tactical on the ground. >> very quickly. you've had the alignment with the neo-nazis marching in germany. how does that align? >> the two parts to that. there is clearly an interest in
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working with these folks to address this. by calling it a holy war, you're giving them the credit. you're giving them credibility they want and they want to be at war with the civilized world and we would be catering to it if we look at it in that lens. >> instead of looking at it as someone with a long criminal back ground. appreciate it. up next, president obama has less than month to go in office. we ask what will his legacy be?
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what i can say with confidence is that what we've done works. that i can prove. i can show you where we were in
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2008 and i can show you where we are now. and you can't argue that we're not better off. we are. >> welcome back to "hardball." that was president obama during what was likely to be his final press conference as the 44th president of the united states making the case for his legacy and successful stewardship of the country during the last eight years. now according to a new usa today suffolk university poll, 54% of americans agree with him. they approve with the job he's doing. what's up for debate is whether or not the affordable care act is his greatest achievement or biggest failure. 24% ratist as his biggest achievement. that's shortly followed by the recovery of the recession and his moral leadership. when those same americans were asked his biggest failure, 27% said, wait for it, the affordable care act. followed by the war in garnls and race relations.
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mark murray with nbc news and jason johnson, politics editor, professor at morgan state. heidi, i have to go to you first. it's interesting that people, it is sort of story of obamacare's life. really loved. 6.4 million people really love it or really hate it. why do you suppose that is? >> if you look at the partisan correlation. you will see why. it is heavily based on which party you belong to. the interesting thing with obamacare, even if the republicans are successful and rolling back much of it. when you ask specific questions about some of the pillars of obamacare including coverage for your adult children. coverage for pre existing conditions. those are hugely popular. they are part of how obamacare has changed the culture of health care. and that is part of his legacy too.
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i think it is much more than that. you talk about obamacare being rolled back. that's now in our culture. >> even people who claim to hate obamacare. >> here's the thing. president obama is not a dummy. the affordable care act is like jenga. you cannot pull out pieces without it falling apart. and i think one of the other most important things. it brought health care into public discussion. people know now. so my costs come from the insurance companies. it has been such a long time since we had intelligence conversations about health care. they have to be saying, i don't think anyone says i'll fix it. >> and you've seen facts on the ground are still being built up. 6 million people signing up for it. and you have them using the most bludgeoning measures. it will be tough. they have to remember some people like, a lot of people
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like a lot of provisions. sometimes you don't want to be the dog that catches up to the car. and republicans have used obamacare to really bludgeon. here's the thing about the health care industry. it is incredibly complex. premiums almost always go up. the question for republicans, do they want to be the owners of health care in 2017, 2018, 2019? some of it on, our replacement measure. we'll delay it three or four years. that will be so, so hard. so i think obamacare's legacy, let's see in 2020, after all the legislative stuff and what the health care environment looks like. >> let's hear from the man himself. before he headed out on vacation. npr did ask him and here's what he said. >> i could not be prouder of the fact the uninsured rate has never been lower. that 20 million people have
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health insurance that didn't have it before. i said when the bill passed that wasn't perfect. and i don't know how many times i've said it to the republicans, publicly and privately, state of the union speeches and town halls around the country. if they're willing to engage and work with me, then we can identify ways to tweak and improve this system each time i've said this, the basic republican response has been, no. all we want to do is repeal it. and we'll replace with it something later. can republicans get away with replacing with it something later? >> i don't know that they can. this is not rocket science. we have social compacts in this country. the way that they work is you have people who are either younger or healthier or both
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buying into the system manier to support those who are older and we see with it social security. on philosophical grounds organization pose having that individual mandate. so it made it hard to also fund. so if you take it away, it has broad coverage. you're going to have sicker people. yes. maybe you won't take away the pre existing conditions. but they're in smaller pools where they're not healthier people and they'll be paying through the nose. >> there's even polling that shows even trump voters want obama fixed. >> president obama ended up taking a very big hit in 2013, 2014 when there was that whole debate. if you like your insurance, you can keep it. we found a lot of examples of people who said i liked it and
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russian leader has been able to do. he'll be cheering about this and it will be in history books for years. >> this is like the global hedge emen. >> with the support of republicans. >> our biggest loser? >> kanye west. >> it seems like it's fine. but he exemplifies what happens when you try to mix pop culture and politics and get the wrong answer. he said that racism is bad, now he's had to ally himself with trump. he's had to cancel concerts. he may be the only person performing at the inauguration. keep your politics and your pop culture separate. >> hip hop was about fighting against progressives. >> mitch mcconnell made a big gamble on the supreme court, took immediate flak, but then the attention turned to the presidential campaign and turned out that republicans get to replace antonin scalia with a
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conservative justice. for someone like mitch mcconnell who believes in power, it was a very cynical move, it was one that actually violated norms. but for him and actually everyone thought, well, hillary clinton will end up winning the election, democrats can pick someone for the supreme court. >> why do you suppose democrats don't believe in power? because they don't seem to believe that at all. >> democrats played some tricks on judges. you ended up having tom daschle filibuster in the 2000s. i do believe this, they want to make it seem like government is working. they are the party of government. they might not agree with republican on numbers one through four but they go on number five, ted kennedy and no child left behind. >> the biggest loser. >> the other person, house speaker paul ryan. it's very possible that mitch mcconnell and paul ryan get a lot of legislative achievements done with republicans in control of all the power, but paul ryan
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was someone who wanted more than just achievements. he wanted to re-create the party. this was donald trump's way early on. it's possible that he could sign paul ryan legislation. but paul ryan is someone who we are going after some entitlements and the republican party today, donald trump's party not ryan's. >> heidi? >> winner is michelle obama just becausic not imagine what an excruciating experience this must be for her right now, some ways harder for her than president obama. harder to watch a person you love go through this. she's watching the party that has certainly declared at the beginning they wanted to make her husband a first term president now succeed in doing that and they'll roll back much of his agenda. and the person who won is the one who accused him of not even being an american. she's doing it in a graceful way. i want to help the trumps come in. it's part grace, but it's also
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smart. >> biggest loser. >> chris christie. just on every level. chris christie was one of the people who stuck with donald trump through thick and thin. >> there's the picture. excruciating. >> he was in charge at one point of the whole transition. he's the person i would say is least likely now to get any role whatsoever in this white house. and look what's happening to him back in new jersey with bridgegate. just i think he's got to be -- >> a reminder how politics can change. when he won re-election, there were very few people who are more popular than chris christie. a couple years go by -- >> it may not be the year of the woman, but heidi is correct. there is no bigger loser in political life than one chris christie anywhere. and michelle obama is the biggest winner. these three will tell me something i don't know.
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when i first started working with capital one, my dad called them up and asked for "the jennifer garner card" which is such a dad thing to do. after he gave his name the woman from capital one said "mr. garner, are you related to jennifer?" kind of joking with him. and my dad was so proud to tell her, "as a matter of fact, she is my middle daughter". so now dad has the venture card, he's earning his double miles, and he made a friend at the company. can i say it? go ahead! what's in your wallet? nice job dad. afoot and light-hearted i take to the open road.
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healthy, free, the world before me, the long brown path before me leading wherever i choose. the east and the west are mine. the north and the south are mine. all seems beautiful to me. we catch flo, the progressive girl, at the supermarket buying cheese.
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scandal alert! flo likes dairy?! woman: busted! [ laughter ] right afterwards we caught her riding shotgun with a mystery man. oh, yeah! [ indistinct shouting ] is this your chauffeur? what?! no, i was just showing him how easy it is to save with snapshot from progressive. you just plug it in and it gives you a rate based on your driving. does she have insurance for being boring? [ light laughter ] laugh bigger. [ laughter ]
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we are back. tell me something i don't know. >> let me give you a hidden number in our recent poll that's very instructive for republicans. they're equiv kating on what kind of investigation of russia they want to do, completely impartial, independent counsel. the majority of americans and this cuts across all parties, independents, republicans, democrats, want an investigation. and that tells republicans don't mess around with this. it is in donald trump's interest
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to have this whole thing above board and not seen as partisan. whether it should be the partisan committees or a true investigation. >> monday's electoral college count could end up being an issue in the dnc chair race going in with the voting happening in february of next year because of the fact that you had five bernie sanders supporter who are electors who end up voting for someone other than hillary clinton and as keith ellison, you know, has really been using that mantel of the bernie sanders camp, the people who are voting are the 440-some-odd democratic party operatives who might not like that and be turning the keys over to bernie -- >> interesting. >> the information center released their end of year report. those people who are anti-death penalty advocates. this is bad news about race, gender, 20% of people on death row are military veterans. we have to do something about ptsd. if trump cares about the vets,
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he should do something. >> that's hardball for now. "all in with chris hayes" starts right now. >> tonight on "all in" -- >> everything good? >> yes. >> how do you like it? everything fine? >> president-elect briefly meets the press. >> what's going on is terrible right now. we have intelligence. >> 74 seconds with the press corps. and what trump learned about the attacks on christians. >> who said that? when was that said? >> plus -- >> he now says it was cute but he doesn't want to use it anymore. >> how the drain the swamp era just ended before it ever began. why donald trump cannot move on from losing the popular vote. and as the plot to dismantle obamacare unfolds, a certain doctor returns with his prescription.


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