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tv   MSNBC Live With Steve Kornacki  MSNBC  December 22, 2016 1:00pm-2:01pm PST

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they're ramping up russia's nuclear program. polilus we'll bring you alle details on president-elect trump's latest picks. we're learning new details about the man accused of killing 12 people in an attack on a berlin christmas market monday, including his possible links to terror organizations. that christmas market reopened as investigation continues. berlin says now is the time for strength. >> everybody is in support of what happened at that moment. >> officials still calling for vigilance today as the europe-wideman hunt for the attacker intensifies. and president obama is shutting down a controversial visitors registry of terror activity since the year 9/11. some would call it a similar swipe that donald trump
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proposed. >> what trump said during the campaign was he wanted to focus particularly on applications of asylum for people coming from countries with high terrorist activity, which strikes me as perfectly sensible. >> but new comments from trump's top advisers raise more questions than answers. we'll lay out for you the twists and turns of donald trump's potential immigration policy. plus a new scathing report from the house intelligence committee calls edward snowden a serial liar. lots to get to today, but we begin with our top story. donald trump calling for an expanded nuclear program today. tweeting earlier this afternoon, the united states must greatly strengthen and expand its nuclear capability until such time as the world comes to its senses regarding nukes. trump's tweet comes just hours after vladimir putin made up his own vow to beef up russia's nuclear readiness. here in the studio is our own hall
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hallie jackson. hallie, what is this about? >> it's not like there was a big discussion happening currently about nuclear capabilities. he tweeted, the united states must greatly strengthen skpand expand its nuclear capability until such time as the world comes to its senses regarding nukes. >> that means making more nukes so that -- >> fortifying the nuclear arsenal here at home, which is what vladimir putin talked about as well. i think for donald trump, wading into nuclear waters, if you will, is something that got him into a little bit of trouble during the campaign. it opened him up for attacks by hillary clinton back in the general election. you have to wonder, how far is he going to go with this in 29 days when he ends up in the white house. >> yeah, and he was obviously talking, we heard him say to chris matthews he wouldn't rule out nukes in the middle east, he wouldn't rule out using nukes in europe. he talked about maybe giving saudi arabia the right to have
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nukes, south korea and japan. but i want to talk a little more about what's going on inside the trump position. we have a familiar face. sean spicer getting the press secretary role, right? >> you have sean spicer who i think a lot of folks know as the communications director. he's pretty familiar to anyone who watches cable news or is into politics. he is somebody who is not afraid of mixing it up with the press. he's responsible for some of the more, i think uxd say, memorable communications teams moments in the campaign. the "my little pony" thing comes to mind, for example. he also has a bit of a friendship with the press. this is a transition team of the president-elect, and during the campaign, a candidate who did not have that kind of relationship necessarily with the news media, so the pick of spicer is necessary in that regard. now the director of strategic communications, this is a very rapid rise for this young woman. she was the spokesperson for him, as you know, in the very
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beginning of the campaign. now ending up in the white house. she had no prior communications. >> donald trump is basically using this as a casting call, basically saying or implying that what he wants are people who look like they're coming out of central cast foing for thesey roelds. mattis looks like someone who would play a general role, that's why he got the job. john bolton does not look like he would be -- take it from here. >> because of the mustache? is that right? i'm pulling up the tweet here from john bolton. so this piece in the "washington post" talked about a presentation. it wasn't just looks, did you tell demeanor, swagger. there is a section in there that donald was not going to like that mustache. here's what john tweeted a few
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minutes ago. i appreciate the groocming advie from the totally unbiased mainstream media, but i will not be shaving my mustache. >> we do have a mustache. there he is. we brought him in just for you, hallie. there's john bolton and his mustache. we'll see if we see this play out with the rest of the cabinet picks still pending. only a couple left. nbc's hallie jackson, thank you so much. i want to bring in ed rendell, former governor of pennsylvania and former chairman of the dnc. and i'm not going to talk to you about john bolton's mustache, so don't worry. david, first you. i want to talk about donald trump tweeting about beefing up nuclear arsenals. it's long been a tamping down on the nuclear arsenals around the world. why are we seeing this from trump now, and could it be an arms race? >> it's actually a strangely sensible thing for him to say. i don't know how considerate it
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is. as vladimir putin's foreign policy has gotten more aggressive in the past three or four years, the russians have been conducting exercises in which they simulate nuclear attacks on places like warsaw. it is using nuclear weapons in tactical capacities, something that was supposed to have put an end to forever during the global war. that is visibly and reentering the russian doctrine. they are using the threat of nuclear weapons quite explicitly to threaten the small countries of europe. the american guarantee has been eroded by some of donald trump's statements during the campaign. it's like, maybe we will, maybe we won't honor our article 5 responsibilities. the question is, does he have a serious military doctrine? you want to deter nukes for a non-nuclear capability to threaten friends in eastern europe. >> nuclear reduction has been basically the policy of the past few presidents, both george w.
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bush, obama. do you think this is something that donald trump should be tweeting about, or is this a -- you know, david, didn't necessarily know how thought through this was. is this something we should see in a policy paper or serious press conference or some sort of address? >> clearly the latter. i mean, this is serious business. and as david said, there may be some reasons to modernize our nuclear arsenal. as you know, the air force is updating all the minutemen icbms there in the silos, and that's gone on where some of those missiles date back to 1960. so there is some modernizing. but do we want to scan up our nuclear capacity other than the battlefield nukes that david was talking about? obviously not. and this is the part of donald trump that really scares me as a citizen. forget politics. he throws around using nukes or giving countries nuclear capacity very lightly as if it's
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some sort of video game. it isn't a video game. it's deadly serious. and we need a serious, well thought out policy that president trump should sit down with his advisers and spend a lot of time looking at the pros and cons, looking at what's needed. we certainly don't need more ibm range because we have enough to blow up the world 20 times. donald trump has to realize everything fits together. if you're going to give the biggest tax cut in american history, you're going to spend $20 million on infrastructure, and you're going to bulk up the military in every way, including expanding our nuclear capacity, how in god's name are we going to pay for it? >> can i pick up on something the governor said? it opens the door to a misconception people have. when you say we can blow up the world 20 times, the united states has reduced its nuclear
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force something like 80% since the end of the cold war. the russians have also substantially reduced their nuclear weapons. >> that's a good thing. that's not a bad thing. >> but people need to have that historic context to understand where we are. the united states and russia have done this jointly, we've done this through treaties, the united states has honored the treaties, russia hasn't always. >> we've seen donald trump give a lot of leeway to russia. is this a sense where we are seeing him maybe push back on russia, or is this some sort of -- i don't want to say agreement between the two men or some sort of behind-the-scenes negotiating talking about both of them expanding their nuclear arsenals. i mean, we spent years trying to tamp down on nuclear arsenals, and to see this come out again and said so flippantly on a tweet has to be concerning some folks, like ed rendell. >> it's not like this tweet just emerged this morning. increasing levels of verbal nuclear threats over the russians in the past two years.
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i'll speak for myself. first, if some extra defense dollars become available, which i hope they will, nuclear forces would certainly not be my first priority. the second thing, and this is really the most important thing to say, the second most dangerous thing you can do in international affairs is to do what barack obama did in syria, draw a red line when you don't need it. but the most dangerous thing you can do is fail to make clear a red line exists when it really is, in fact, there. donald trump has said a bunch of things that invite russia to be aggressive in eastern europe. it's an american armor brigade arriving in poland this spring. members of the united states are taking up positions in astonia this spring. the germans are going to lithuania. this is the biggest arms buildup since the cold war happening in response to russia's aggression, and donald trump is sending signals that maybe we don't mean it. but we better make clear to the
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russians we do mean it. >> he hasn't made it explicitly clear he would back up nato. that's one of the things that got him in trouble in the campaign, saying he was sure russia was not going to go into ukraine, even though russia had gone into ukraine. he had not been tough on the idea of pushing back against russian aggression at any point. so my question is, does he have a responsibility to the american people to make sure that his foreign policy is clearcut? right now he just talks about being unpredictable, and the things he says often contradict himself. and he says it in flippant ways like a tweet. is there a responsibility to the american people for him to go out and be very specific about what he needs to do, and who is the person who is going to tell him that that he'll listen to? >> those are a lot of questions. i would say for the world's most powerful nation, it's important to be super pre dibtable. absolutely predictable. if someone tampers with estonia, this is what will happen.
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there is an american armored brigade going to poland. it's not just there for show. that's something everyone needs to understand. with china, here are american lines. here are america's friends in the pacific. everyone needs to know that. as long as we're clear, we will live in a very peaceful world. unpredictability on a country is super dangerous. >> donald trump talked about draining the swamp a number of times during the campaign, made it one of his platforms. we've seen him put in place a lot of folks who aren't exactly swamp training from wall street bankers to other politicians. talking about creating a consulting firm. doesn't donald trump face a problem down the line if he's putting these people in power and things don't change rapidly enough? isn't he giving himself an opening for those who voted for him saying, i don't feel like you held up your end of the bargain, or are they going to continue giving him a pass on
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this stuff? >> he drained a swamp with alligators and replaced it with equally dangerous snakes. we have the billionaire corps, we have people placed in charge of agencies that they don't believe in the basic core function of the agency, and we've got people who have been connected in politics for years and years. we've got operatives. no, he hasn't drained the swamp at all. if anything, he's just exchanged the dangerous creatures in the swamp. yeah, i think his base and his supporters will give him a little leeway. but i think it must have sent a shiver up everybody's spine who voted for donald trump when it came out that his two sons were selling access to the president on the day after the inauguration to million-dollar donors. they can talk all they want about that not being the signed-off thing, that it was only a concept paper. they registered their names with a state agency, and they sent out something that they would not have sent out if they had not previously consented to it. that's not draining the swamp, that's making the swamp ten times worse.
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>> pay to play, of course, is what donald trump used against hillary clinton during the campaign for her foundation. >> this is on a level we've never seen. >> draining the swamp is just trumpese for raising the price. >> thank you so much, guys, for joining me. happy holidays as well. a suspect in an attack on a christmas market is still on the run. officials are revealing that a fingerprint belonged to 24-year-old anis amri was found in the truck used in the attack. the tunisia national has been under surveillance by the fbi on a terror watch list. the christmas market reopened just three days after that deadly attack. matt bradley is on the ground with more. matt, can you give me what the very latest is down there? >> reporter: katy, you said it. the law enforcement in germany came out and basically announced
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they are more certain than ever that anis amri is the one who drove a tractor-trailer into the christmas market now behind me about 72 hours ago. they're more certain because of these fingerprints they found inside the cab of this truck. as you remember, the really damning evidence against amri before was that police simply found identification papers near the truck that had his name on it and showed that he was at the scene of the crime. so now they're even more certain. but this is all coming as this dragnet expands. german police have been searching in hospitals, they've been searching in boats, and they've been expanding this operation to all of europe, not just to germany and berlin. so now there is this $100,000 bounty on the head of this man, this 24-year-old tunisian -- katy, it's actually his birthday today, if you can believe it. i don't know how he's going to separate it, but he's on the lam
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for a country-wide effort to bring him to justice. the ramifications of this are expanding, and as you mentioned, the consternation in the united states is one similar to europe where many right wing politicians are really taking the bait here, the initiative, and slamming chancellor angela merkel and saying her open door policy, when she famously let in about a million refugees last summer, they're laying blame on that policy. and just today, german police went and searched a mosque about two miles from where i am now in berlin, looking for any trace of this suspect or any other refugees who might have been involved with him. katy? >> matt bradley in berlin, thank you very much. coming up, a major turning point in the syrian civil war. it now has complete control of aleppo in the coming years. what it means for the assad regime, ahead. now, a tracking program
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president obama has a registry of active terrorist groups. he says he is dismantling the program now to prevent the incoming trump administration from revising or personalizing it. this after the department of energy have been backing up climate change research in recent days, not sure how much the trump administration will value their data.
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joining us now is susan page, bureau chief for usa today. susan, thank you so much for being here. talk to me about this registry in general. what was it, ensears is what it was called? it was started after 9/11? >> this is a registry for certain visitors from designated countries. it's been used for people from iraq, sudan. it started after the september 11 attacks but really not used for the past five or six years, not used since 2011. the inspector general at the department of home land security said in a 2012 report that it was basically out of date, wano useful, there was a better way to track visitors than this. the trump administration could, if it chose, just revive and use it again. it would give some political cover to the idea of the registry that donald trump has talked about trying to set up. the extreme vetting from country
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that have examples of terrorism in their borders. so this isn't going to prevent donald trump from moving ahead if he chooses to do so, but it takes away one device that might have facilitated his effort to do that. >> basically it takes it away the foundation he could have used to say, hey, this program already exists, i'm just tweaking it to use it for the bill i proposed during the campaign. it's interesting, because congressman kovac, when he was interviewing for secretary of state, walked in with a sheet in his hand that had the ensears program outlined he was going to present to donald trump. we saw that because our cameras could pick that up. that was interesting. do you think this is something he's going to need to do? we've seen him talk about the muslim ban. yesterday donald trump said basically he was right, and it's been proven to be right. is the muslim ban something that is going to happen? they've been so unclear about it. >> we've had mixed messages, and
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even after donald trump's comments yesterday, he said he believed in having a muslim ban. his transition team came back and said that isn't what he meant, he meant extreme vetting, something which isn't based explicit ly on religion. so it is something he's talked about. if he chooses to go down this route, he'll have political opposition, legal opposition, he'll be going to court on it. but he does have some power when it comes to allowing visitors in this country. this could become a titanic battle if he chooses to make it one. but he'll have a lot of his plate deciding what to focus on when he takes over. >> toii want to talk about the democrats real fast. there is a pullout that says the most popular person for the democratic party in the 2020 election will be someone totally new. and harold took aim at t-- harr
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reid took action against the dnc. let's listen. >> i believe one of the failures of democratic party has been the dnc. the democratic national committee has been worthless. they do nothing to help state parties. that should be the main goal they have. i developed everything in nevada on my own. i would hope that they will choose a chair of the democratic party who is a full-time person, not someone like we had with that congresswoman from florida. >> harsh words from senator harry reid, unsurprisingly harsh. who do they have? >> they have bernie sanders, but he's not technically a democrat. essentially there is just the president obama. who do they have that could fill the role as their flag bearer?
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>> that's the question we have when we did the polls, because you're saying people who have some support but maybe not represent a new generation of leadership? you know, that said, if we had been doing that poll four years ago, we probably wouldn't have put donald trump on the list of republicans. we probably wouldn't have put bernie sanders on the list of democrats. maybe it takes some time, but clearly democrats are in search of the next generation of leaders. >> you never know who it might be, that's right. donald trump was not on anybody's list four years ago. frankly, nobody took him seriously a year ago, even. susan page from usa today. thank you so much for being here. >> thank you, katy. up next, edward snowden. the subject of a scathing new report of the intelligence committee. it calls him a liar and accuses him of being in contact with russian intelligence. what he's saying about that report, coming up next. nd messy. they are the natural born enemy of the way things are. yes, ideas are scary,
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to plant around the power lines. we want to keep the power on for our customers. we want to keep our community safe. this is our community, this is where we live. we need to make sure that we have a beautiful place for our children to live. together, we're building a better california. time now for a check of the headlines at the half hour. the tunisian man expected of carrying out monday's attack on
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a berlin christmas market remains on the run. german authorities revealing today that a fingerprint belonging to 24-year-old anis amri was found inside the truck used in that deadly attack. and two intelligence officials tell nbc news that amri was known to terrorist agencies as ago isis sympathies and links. trump chose campaign manager kellyanne conway to be counselor to the president. republican national committee spokesman sean spicer as press secretary, and top campaign spokesman jason miller to be his communications director. the chapter of the naacp are calling for a federal boycott of the state and comes after the state legislature fails to repeal a controversial bathroom bill during a special session yesterday. democratic governor elect roy cooper accusing the body of breaking its word by not overturning the law. a congressional committee
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releasing the results of an investigation into former security contractor edward snowden who compromised national security by leaking classified information about surveillance programs. it also accuses snowden of being in touch with russian intelligence services. snowden's attorney is denouncing the report. we'll have much more on this coming up in just a couple of minutes. and the syrian government says it has retain complete control of the city of aleppo. the military issuing a statement a short time ago after rebel civilians and fighters left the city. donald trump called for ramped-up nuclear capabilities in the u.s., making that call in, what else, a tweet. it is a stark departure from the u.s.'s commitment to reduce nuclear armament. kirby spoke on behalf of the obama administration. >> i can't speak to what the
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president-elect's nuclear views or his policies going forward, that's for him and his team to speak to. what i can speak to is the approach that this administration has taken to try to get us on a path to a world without nuclear weapons. that said, we're always looking at additional ways to achieve progress on the president's path forward to create a credible deterrent. you need a credible deterrent, including a credible nuclear deterrent. we continue to review plans of appropriate moderation of that nuclear deterrent. >> let's go to bill richardson, he's also u.s. ambassador to the u.n. mr. kirby says the nation walks a fine line when it comes to nuclear armament. given what donald trump said today, which some believe is just a threat, were trump's
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comments warranted? >> no, they weren't warranted. what we have is foreign policy by tweet. are we going to have another nuclear arms race? that's what it sounds like. you have putin saying he's going to upgrade his nuclear arsenal to be on the lookout against nato and the united states, and now president-elect trump is saying that we're going to upgrade our nuclear weapons? i mean, russia and the united states have 7,000 nuclear weapons each. by treaty, we're committed to reducing these. the united states is undertaking a $1 trillion modernization program of our nuclear weapons arsenal over 30 years. right up here in new mexico, i'm in santa fe. 40 miles away is los alamos national laboratory, the birth place of nuclear weapons. they're doing a modernization there. i don't understand what president-elect trump is saying. at one point he wants nuclear weapons for japan, then to south korea, saudi arabia.
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are we going to have another nuclear arms race? this is not a good sign. this is not a good signal. >> the reduction was based on this idea of mutually assured destruction. if russia launches one, we launch one, both of the countries are basically wiped out, or at least big cities in the countries are wiped out. what is the point of going into a nuclear arms race? what could we stand to benefit by modernizing our nuclear weapons, by adding more to our nuclear weapons and seeing russia do the same? >> well, it's a bad strategic nuclear policy. because the world, the international community, its efforts have been to reduce nuclear weapons, nuclear materials, nuclear materials peddled by black operations. we have to contain north korea. and we're now going to say that we're going to upgrade our nuclear arsenal? it makes no sense.
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president-elect trump has a cadre of advisers. he should review these issues besides sending tweets in response to putin. i thought they were friends. now we're going to have a nuclear arms race because they're trying to outdo each other? this makes no sense. >> it certainly is not clear what's going on, at least for donald trump. but talk to me. say he does want to ramp up the nuclear program. how is he going to pay for it? what's it going to cost? he's already balked at the idea of paying $4 million to boeing for two new planes. how much is this going to be, and how is he going to pay for it? >> well, president obama, i mean, who he is criticizing, basically has undertaken, as asked for a $1 trillion modernization program of our nuclear weapons over 30 years. yeah, they need to be upgraded,
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they need to be sustainable, but at the same time, our policy is to reduce them, to reduce the world from nuclear weapons. ronald reagan wanted to eliminate them in his meeting with bori with borgachev in iceland. now president putin and president trump, maybe this is a little gamesmanship, but do they want to increase our arsenal? and the spending is going to be huge. we're already spending enough on our defenses and nuclear weapons. yes, we have to upgrade our conventional forces. we want to have the best troops protect our veterans, protect our strategic arsenal, but to get into a nuclear arms race as president-elect on a tweet before not reviewing what our options should be makes little
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sense. and i'm flabbergasted. i'd like to be supportive of president-elect trump, but every day there is a new surprise. now a nuclear arms race with russia? >> we'll find out where it goes from here. former governor bill richardson, thank you very much. >> thank you. a new congressional report highly critical of foreign national security contractor edward snowden's leaks. pete williams joins us now from washington. pete, what are we learning from this report, and are they trying to say edward snowden was potentially working on behalf of the russian snzrussians? s. >> no, they don't say that. they said snowden was no whistle blower, no hero, that the kind of information he revealed to journalists was much more than what he said he was doing, which was raising civil liberty concerns about programs that
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potentially surveilled u.s. citizens. the report said it went far beyond that, that he took 1.5 million documents. if you stacked them up, it would be 3 miles high, they say. they say he flunk aed a test repeatedly that was for people to understand a surveillance on e-mail programs, that he failed to understand the privacy protections in them. but the thing getting the most attention is a single line in the report that says this: since snowden's arrival in moscow, he has had and continues to have contact with the russian intelligence services. and then it goes on to say, and in june, the deputy chairman of russia's parliament defense and security committee said snowden did share intelligence with the russian government, though snowden says that's a mistranslation, that what the official actually said is what he believes. katy, a lot of the report is blacked out like this. it is heavily redacted. it's supposedly a chart that
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shows vulnerabilities to the defense community. and snowden has been pushing back at this. his lawyer ben whisner, says the statement is completely untrue. he says snowden has been under criticism and combines demonstrable laws to define a fictional portrait of a whistle blower. i talked to a democratic member of the defense committee, and i said, are you satisfied that you have good intelligence that leads you to believe that snowden was in contact with the russian intelligence services, and he said yes, we can't go into details, but he's satisfied that that conclusion is a fair one. and i should also point out that this report from the house select committee on intelligence is a bipartisan one. there's no minority report, there is no dissent here. >> those were active portions. 21 leaks that caused national
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damage to national security. i'd like to know what those were. so far it doesn't seem like we're going to find that out. pete williams, thank you, from washington. a bumpy start for ivanka trump. she was confronted by an angry passenger after taking off with her family. what jetblue airlines is saying about the encounter. she's not the only one of donald trump's children in the news today. eric trump just announced he will no longer take donations for his own charity. it comes after recent conflicts of interest. we'll dive into it with our panel, next.
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>> heidi, we're seeing the donald trump family walking back from their business ties and charitable giving. now the brother saying they're not going to be involved in the charitable event that not only gave access to them but their father for the inauguration. is this them finding out what they can or cannot do, or is this a sign of them finding out sometimes they'll get caught for what they want to do? >> that is what i was thinking, is why did this happen in the first place? on the one hand, you could say they are not a family of washington, they are not schooled in the specific government ethics rules. at the same time, a core argument that their father made and made relentlessly against the clintons was regarding the clinton foundation for exactly
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this type of arrangement of taking in money seemingly for charitable purposes and good purposes, but then having the donors basically, you know, expect something from it. you saw that with the coffee with ivanka, that some of the donors were interviewed and hoping this would be a way to get the message across to her father. so it really is surprising, really surprising coming into this, that they would have agreed to this type of arrangement or even had this set up, because one of the offshoots of this foundation was only set up very recently, katy, so that is the surprising part. and the thing about it is, it's not an isolated incident. what we are seeing now is a bit of a thunderstorm of conflicts of interest concerns that range from their father's own reluctance to divest from his company, even though he said in his campaign that if he were
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elected, he wouldn't care about his businesses, he would step away from it, concentrating on these potential cabinet appointments, and it makes you wonder how much draining of the swamp will come back to bite them if trump doesn't divest every time there is some kind of domestic policy made, reporters like ourselves are going to wonder how did the drumtrumps n benefit from this. >> donald tweeted that basically we need to fortify our nuclear arms today. you just got something from the transition team. what did it say? >> that trump was talking about nuclear proliferation and a way to prevent it, he's also wanting to pursue peace through strength. obviously the implication there being donald trump didn't really mean that he wanted to expand the nuclear arms.
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>> how often can they do that, though? they don't define what extreme vetting is and then donald trump says, oh, no, my muslim ban was correct. how much can his aides come out and say, no, no, no? >> i think we'll have to tally it up four years from now. vladimir putin gave a speech in russia where he made a similar argument to what we saw in donald trump's speech saying essentially that russia needed to improve its nuclear arsenal. donald trump's tweet seemed to be a response to that. but on the campaign trail, he seemed to give a blank check and walk it back to, for example, japan and south korea getting nuclear arms if north korea were able to get nuclear arms. in terms of proliferation, donald trump has advocated for that in the past. >> it's all very vague. >> and that's part of the concern, this is nuclear war. when we're talking about united states and russia building up their nuclear arms, it's not
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something to be vague about. >> ivanka trump was on jetblue this afternoon and jetblue had to remove a passenger from the flight because he walked by ivanka and started yelling at her saying they ruined our country and now they ruined our flight. is this what we can expect, where we have a country of people just yelling at each other if they don't agree with their policies, yelling at a person with kids with her on a flight, yelling at reporters, say, at a donald trump rally not agreeing with what they might say? >> it's depressing that in the holiday season people can't realize no matter how angry you feel inside, expressing it in those means and those manners is inappropriate. it's inappropriate if that's what happened, and it also doesn't help your side, right? because at the end of the day, you're the one who looks bad and your side looks bad and you lose the moral high ground. certainly this is going on on both sides. we're seeing an uptick as reported by outside groups in
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hate crimes, and it's all just really depressing as an american to see that we can't communicate with each other better and realize that that behavior reflects very poorly upon your side, whatever high ground, moral high ground you thought you had, you lose. >> it further drives a wedge in this country, a political wedge, that's keeping so many people apart. thank you so much for joining me. merry christmas, happy holidays. be nice to your families. coming up, how would feel if your significant other gifted you with nothing at all? believe it or not, some people say -- at least me -- that that is the best gift of all. we'll explain why, after the break.
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to give or not to give. that is next. but first here is josh lipton with the cnbc market wrap. >> thanks, katy. stocks slipped today as they looked at data criteria. meanwhile, jobless claims jumped to a higher than expected 275,000. dow dropped 23 points, the s&p fell 4, and the nasdaq slid 24. that's it from cnbc, first in business worldwide. so, what are we supposed to think? switching to geico could save you a bunch of money
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we're just two days until christmas, and shoppers are out buying last-minute gifts. the national retail federation estimates that americans will spend nearly $656 million on gifts this year. but more people are starting to give up on giving gifts. we sent jacob soboroff off to the streets of new york to find out what shoppers think. >> reporter: hey, katy. it's me, jacob. i didn't get you a gift this year, but this segment is my gift to you. what would you guys say if none of you got christmas presents for each other? >> i would be okay with that. >> absolutely. it's about loving the person you're with and family time. >> reporter: do you really feel that way? >> yeah. absolutely. >> reporter: did you guys get yourself christmas gifts this year? >> yes, we did. >> reporter: is this your daughter? >> this is my daughter. >> reporter: how would you feel
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if emma didn't get you a gift? >> i would be pretty upset. she got me a gift, i know she did. >> reporter: merry christmas. is that a gift for me? emma, if your father didn't get you a gift, how would feel? >> also upset. >> high expectations. >> reporter: if your mom didn't give you a christmas gift, how would feel? >> i wouldn't feel very happy. >> if my son didn't give me a christmas present -- >> reporter: how would feel? >> very upset. i'm joking. >> reporter: did you get something from your son this year? >> i don't know. >> reporter: did you get her something this year? >> yes. >> reporter: that was pretty suspect. >> of course i got something. >> reporter: if you didn't get anything at all, is that gift okay? >> it's more about the love. >> reporter: she's lying.
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>> katy hill wrote about this. katy, i decided with my boyfriend not to give gifts and it's a gift for not giving. now i realize this is a thing? >> it stresses people out. every year there is a new survey of how stressed we are about gifts. families just say no for a variety of reasons. >> i can see where it's for a kid, that would be different. >> you give him a home depot card and he gives you a lowe's one. you start trading money, and they don't do it anymore. >> do you think it's scrooging? >> my husband and i aren't giving anything, and we're not giving our daughter anything. she's little, and when she's older, we probably will. >> i hear about kids playing with cardboard boxes and having more fun with the cardboard boxes and the wrapping paper
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than they had with the actual gifts. why don't kids just get creative and say we're going to have crazy family time and here's this cardboard box. they can make it into a pirate ship if they want. >> that's right, and i think the real gift is spending time with each other. that's what the holiday is all about, not about getting a whole bunch of presents, but i know people get upset about it. >> it's literally the gift about not having to stress about what you might want. >> what you might want and then what you get and having to act appropriately to it. >> oh, i love these socks, it's amazing. actually, socks is the only gift i actually like. seriously, if anyone ever gives me a gift, i want socks. or booze. >> booze is always a good gift. it lasts throughout the year. >> when you talk to people and they say they're not doing this, do they give you nasty looks? >> some people said, okay, we're not giving gifts. some said it's ridiculous, they're not doing it. but a lot of people felt relief when they knew they didn't have
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to do anymore. >> see, the gift of not waking up christmas morning expecting to open gifts, just enjoying your coffee and loving life. "mtp daily" starts right now. good evening and welcome to "mtp daily." i'm chris jans ng new york in for chuck todd. we have a lot to get to this hour, including the very latest for the hunt of a suspended tourist in europe, the fallout from a house bill in north carolina, and sylvia burwell on why the public should think twice about repeeling obamacare. but first we go to a showdown between president obama and president-elect trump. today


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