tv MSNBC Live With Craig Melvin MSNBC December 23, 2016 7:00am-8:01am PST
that wraps us up for the hour and for me, the year. i'm stephanie ruhle. you can find me anytime on twitter, but you can see me on tv next year. merry christmas, happy new year, i will see you then. right now, here's some more news with katy tur. >> merry christmas, happy hanukkah, all of the above. let it be an arms race. is the u.s. headed back to the future? president putin's response coming up. and shot dead. the 24-year-old suspect from the christmas market attack killed overnight in the shootout in italy. intense moments on the tarmac. threatened to blow up a libya plane with 118 people still on board. first, a nuclear warning from the president-elect. donald trump making it crystal clear he wants to not only strengthen but expand nuclear capability. breaking with long standing u.s. policy and doing it while another president is still
technically in charge. first, a somewhat murky tweet yesterday. the united states must greatly strengthen and expand nuclear capability until such time where it comes regarding nukes. kellyanne conway tried to walk it back with rachel maddow last night. >> honestly though, the american position on nuclear weapons worldwide for a very long time now, not just as a partisan matter but multiple presidents is that we're trying to lead the way many reducing nuclear weapons in the world. 's saying we're going to expand our nuclear capability. >> not necessarily saying that. >> he literally did say that. >> what he's saying is we need to expand our nuclear readiness to be ready for those who also have nuclear weapons. >> a conversation with mika.
>> mika said, donald trump said let it be an arms race. sean spicer tried to couch it. >> if there's going to be an arms race -- >> there's not going to be. >> but it says -- so be it -- >> there's hot reponot because ensure they get the message he won't allow that and they'll come to their senses and we'll all be just fine. >> my colleague, kristen welker, in west palm beach, florida, where the president-elect is spending the holidays. who do we believe? sean spicer, kellyanne conway or
donald trump at his word? >> reporter: hard to know exactly what president-elect donald trump plans to do with this particular policy. as you point out, the message, very muddled yesterday. you had this very strong statement from the president-elect in the tweet which he reiterated in the phone call with mika brazinnski. this is rhetoric that's a major break with not only this administration but past administrations. rachel maddow pointed out. president obama called for a world without nuclear weapons. he gave that speech in prague eight years ago and said that was he was going to be working toward and since then, has convened four nuclear security summits trying to get the international community to secure and reduce their nuclear stockpiles. so this is a major break, at least in terms of rhetoric from
what we have heard from this administration and administrations going all the way back to ronald reagan. now, sean spicer was also pressed earlier today about whether or not the president-elect consulted with the current commander in chief. >> should he have checked with barack obama first? >> no, he's the president-elect. he doesn't need to check with people. we respect the fact there's one president at a time, but this president is not going to sit back and just wait for things to happen. he's going to get things done. >> reporter: and you have a number of foreign policy experts who are expressing concern about the fact that the president-elect seems to be trying to negotiate this policy via twitter. that's also a break from past administrations and in terms of how this is received on the international stage, many foreign leaders expressing concern. vladimir putin asked about this during a news conference he held earlier today and said, look, this essentially reiterates what
we heard from the president-elect out on the campaign trail. so this isn't a break. but he also said, katy, he has no appetite for a nuclear arms race. so foreign policy experts will be watching this closely, in terms of what we can expect here today, i'm told the lek president-elect is going to play around with tiger woods and then meetings. >> so much of what he said is just contradted himself in the past 17 months and as you pointed out, it is to note this is breaking with long standing policy and also while barack obama is in office leaving a s disconnect with this administration and what the policy may be for donald trump. leaving a lot of room for confusion and questions. kristen welker, in palm beach, enjoy the weather down there. for more on this, joined by congressman. you sit on the commission that
helps with foreign policy regarding security in europe. how do you expect our european allies to respond to a tweet like this? >> i think they're going to be confused about america's future and our goals in europe. the president-elect has questioned nato. i have visited lithuania,e es estonia, those people are concerned. the planes buzzing over their countries and threatening their air forces. i'm sure the people in ukraine where i've also visited are concerned and georgia, they're concerned. the big picture is, human rights and world peace are at stake. and we have a president who is like none other. some people might think that's good. it concerns me greatly. one thing you learn in life, you learn in congress is you have to have advice from people who have expertise and that can hone your positions and make you a better
public servant. i think he's just coming out with 140 karats in sweetitweeti. you've got crazy people in north korea seeing this and we could have a nuclear problem or war on our hands. there's all kinds of problems and somebody needs to get this man but the man is a very self-centered individual and he's getting the attention he wants. it's unfortunate. i do think he should not be doing this during the transition period, that we have a president and he shouldn't be tweeting about the united nations and israel. he shouldn't be tweeting about nuclear arsenals and shouldn't tweet about the drone in china. this is kind of like the -- >> what do you make of the argument that the trump transition is making that this is a time to get around this president, to ensure that he has
an ability to succeed and has the support to lead this country as many we' ? we've seen that before trying to make the transition as smooth as possible. do you think it's time to rally around him or time to second guess him? >> i think you've got to represent your constituency and your experiences and got to question what he's doing. as far as i'm concerned, i represent a district that needs a lot of federal aid. i think if you put all this money into the nuclear weapons, you're not going to have money for wic and snap and important programs. big opportunity cost in the budget. i think you have to question his priorities but i don't know he's serious about the nuclear. bob gates said we should modernize and maybe that's strengthening but the big question is, does he have the
temperament to have the nuclear codes and that's going to be dependent as bob gates said, his advisors. i'm afraid he doesn't or too impulsive and huxley may understand him. i don't understand him. the american public is in for a rocky ride and hopefully, mother earth can survive the next pour years. >> representative steve cohen, thank you so much for joining me. the berlin truck attacker shot on the streets of milan ending a week long international manhunt. let's go to nbc's claudio lavaunio. are they sure it's amri? >> reporter: katy, authorities say they have absolutely no doubt that the person who got shot and killed in milan is indeed and is amri, the man believed to be at the wheel at the christmas market on monday in berlin killing 12.
now how did they encounter him? seemed to have been a chance encounter between the authorities and the suspect. the two italian policemen, young, were patrolling the area. this is a very quiet residential area. a small train station there and this guy at 3:00 in the morning, just walking around and thesusp. get out of the car and ask for his id, the suspect just put his hand in the ransack and pulled out a .22 caliber pistol and shot one policeman and the other was swift thenough and shot him dead right there. and found out, it was indeed amri. this is what we know. what we don't know is why was amri there, the local train station, on the outskirts of milan? we know the train tickets he traveled from germany to france to milan and then from milan, he went to the local train station. why didn't he stay?
we don't know, they try to figure out whether he was expecting to meet someone and maybe someone giving him a safe house or safe passage throughout italy and wouldn't be surprising because on authorities, he's not new to the italian authorities. before it moved to germany. >> do you know why the germans did not know about this? >> reporter: it looks like the germans should have known about this. italians in 2015, the italians released from pri because they were sentenced after he set fire to immigration said when he was released from prison, the italians wanted to expel him. they didn't want him back. to so the guy completely disappeared and put out a note, not to germany sesk pecifically
in general to the police and he was out there and not suspected on a fundamentalist but they said, this is a guy. don't know the whereabouts of. i spoke to the director of the policeman and potentially police in italy and said during this time in prison, he didn't show signs of fundamentalism but aggression and violence. >> claudio, in rome, thank you very much. lis let's bring in clint watts. let's pick up on something claudio was just talking about. the italians have him. i assume they try to import him back but tunisia were refusing to at least at the time he was a tunisian national.
he goes to germany. they have him under surveillance. not enough to potentially do more because they don't know about this arrest main italy. talk about the sharing of information and why it's causing problems like this. >>ne is sharing the information. countries don't necessarily trust each other in the way you think they do. you don't know where that information is going or the voracity of the intelligence, so when they hand it off, they don't know how another might pursue that or treat it. i think another thing we're seeing consistently with the terrorist recruits from north africa that blend to europe is they're floating. no real homes and we have a big problem with this. >> donald trump talked about this on the campaign about deporting people and countries refusing to take their criminals back. this is an example of that. tunisia refusing to take this man back. how do the governments in europe or how does the government here find a way to force countries to take back people that are
potentially causing problems in the country that they've sought acsylum in or imgralmigrated to? >> i think a lot of people don't know who these are, per se. so you're saying in certain cases, we want you to take this person back and say, okay, they've lived at some point but we don't even have documentation. you're talking about third world versus first world problems. and over the next few years, the effects of not doing anything. we've had three years of inaction against isis, especially isis with the foreign fighters going there and now trying to solve a problem way past their limits and don't have enough sufficient capacity to track these people or even enough information to identify them in the german case. that's how these people fall through the cracks. >> so isis, about an hour ago said that they released a video where they show, they claim to show amri pledging allegiance to them. we're not going to show it because we don't show terror
propaganda videos. does it matter if they claim credit or not? isn't just the act alone enough to bolster their cause? >> there's a fine line between what's an isis directed network attack or inspired attack. i think in this case, what's important to note is that he was not a lone wolf but a known wolf. the germans knew about him. the italians knew about him. this network has been there for quite some time. if you go back to france and belgium, there's been a sustained series of isis plots and lots of arrests. from the bad news of the berlin attack, but the good news is in the uk, france, germany, we've seen preemptive arrests and that's a much better sign than what we saw a year ago. >> what does it mean here at home? >> i think we should be asking ourselves is, does isis have anything left in the tank? are there any operatives or plots out there? this is their last ditch effort.
they're losing ground in iraq and syria consistently. they're faltering from the inside out. if there's anybody out there, there seems to be a coordinated effort to go for any that's available. >> if they're losing ground in iraq and syria and this is the last gasp, what do you do about the refugees still fleeing? do you let them into the borders? >> they are playing into the refugee issue and deliberately trying to insert people in there. they see that as a way to divide the muslims they're trying to win over at home. >> but to gain more ground, to tiend mo find more recruits and maintain relevance. >> every time we clamp down more and harsher against a muslim ban or immigrants in general, that confirms their narrative that we've been fighting for the last ten years. >> creates a divide. clint, thank you so much for being here. happy holidays, merry christmas, happy hanukkah, all of the
you totally nailed that buddy. simple. don't let directv now limit your entertainment. only xfinity gives you more to stream to any screen. rge breaking news out of malta. the libya plane forced to land when two hijackers took control have been released and now in custody, this after hours of negotiations with the men who were reportedly carrying hand grenades. cal perry is monitoring all of this for us. a tense situation. >> reporter: it resolved in just the past hour. we understand the hijackers, who claim to carry hand grenades,
turning themselves over there to maltese authorities. this sort of played out over the course of a few hours, this was an internal libbie libyan state. they wanted more political dialogue between those pro qaddafi loyalists in libya and a defuncted government in tripoli where the lane was headed and thankfully, resolved peacefully and doesn't seem to be anything ever intended to cause harm to the passengers and we saw this video of passengers getting off the plane and shaking the hands of the hijackers at no point, did they have their cell phones removed. thankfully, it was resolved peacefully and appears right now, everybody is headed for an army base in malta. >> tell he if i missed this. did they actually have hand grenades as it was reported?
>> we don't know, we're waiting to hear from the maltesian foreign minister. there is no security situation. the idea that air travel is safe is frankly a joke. the mayor telling british broadcasters that the security situation is quite poor at the airport, that the terminal is some three miles from where the airfield is. so basically anybody can get on these planes so it's not like there's a tsa system in the united states and this is a very bad political situation in libya. a lot of fieghting on with al qaeda and isis moved in because there is no government and you have this resurgence of supporters of the former dictator, moammar qadhafi killed in 2011 and appears that is what this is about. coming up, where the travel headaches pop up across the country. holiday weather out west impacts
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nothing like traveling during the holidays but this year could be a record breaker with up to 103 million people hitting the roads and the skies. nbc's tom costello at reagan national airport with one of the best assignments of the holiday season. standing around and talking to travelers. how is it faring so far? >> reporter: well, it's warm and there's a starbucks 10 feet to my left. it ain't bad if you know what i mean and bathrooms inside. so it's all pretty good. smooth sailing here, not only here at reagan airport where things are moving quickly but really, nationwide. we lucked out with the weather. good situation. look at the flight misery map at this hour. this kind of tracks all the delays and cancellations nagswinag nationwide. we have only 230 delays nationwide. that's not much. one flight cancellation within the past four hours or so and
watch the chicago area and midwest area because of the weather moving in there and there was an incident in the last hour or so down in orlando, katy, an individual who was in the, past the checkpoint, down at the gate, somehow got out of the gate and ran down on to the tarmac. he then confiscated or grabbed an airport vehicle and drove around on the airport ramp towards the fire station and eventually captured this guy but that security breach really caused quite a few delays there at orlando in the last couple of hours. so they'll be recovering from that. nationwide, 6 million people are traveling by air over this ten-day stretch. the vast majority will by the end of tonight or tomorrow will be at their destination as it relates to air travel and the rest by ground so that means for the most part, 90 million people are on the roads and for the most part, we have good road conditions nationwide. the weather, not a huge factor yet, but again, the midwest will be an issue and also, a storm in
the rockies. and if you're not going by a road and if you're not going by plane, then you're taking a donkey, a stagecoach, horse and buggy, something, a moped. >> a tdonkey. i wonder what it's like to work at a network news station. >> if you're near a bathroom or warm, or inside during the winter, you are a happy camper and that's why tom costello is smiling right now. thank you, tom. >> not bad. all right. the crowds, the lines, let's not forget the weather. what's going on in the skies, bill karins? >> unfortunately, too much. the areas in the west are not pretty this morning. this is the map to show you the watches, the warnings for the winter weather. we have about 18 million people that are affected and the blizzard watch over bismarck to rapid city, not fun by any means. the storm in the west causing all the problems today. this is a storm that will move across the country, the blizzard
in the dakotas by christmas day. it poured by san francisco and tom was showing you the misery index. san francisco to 135 minute arrival delays because of weather and wind. that's two hours and 15 minutes. that's a high misery index. los angeles has arrival delays of an hour and a half and because of weather but because of construction on the taxi way but unplanned construction. they will have rain later today, so that's already bad. probably get worse throughout the afternoon, phoenix, tucson, other areas today. tom mentioned there's bad weather in chicago. clouds moving in. light snow shortly. and on and off. no delays at the airports there and the roads pretty treacherous. i-80 to minneapolis, light snow about 1 to 2 inches. just enough to make it a little slippery and not too much fun. so possible delay at the airports. obviously, we've got san francisco and los angeles but seattle, chicago, st. louis and then tomorrow for christmas eve,
salt lake city to get that storm with rain and significant delays and light rain in new york and dc, so yes, on the east coast, nice and clear as it could. and a little in the middle but definitely too cold on the west coast. >> can i put you on the spot and ask you about travel on sunday? >> where are you going? >> thailand. can i get out of new york safely? this is selfish to viewers. >> you have no problems on the east coast. i'll e-mail you the thailand toer forecast. >> thank you, i appreciate it. in malta. terrorist suspect killed in a shootout and donald trump fuels fears of a nuclear arms race. your latest headlines are next.
negotiations. the hijackers surrendered. and italy, the man suspected of mowing down dozens of people at a berlin christmas market earlier this week is dead killed in an early shootout with police in milan. a tunisian national on the run for nearly a week. new comments today from both donald trump and vladimir putin on nuclear policy. in his annual year end press conference this morning, putin touted his country's nuclear capabilities calling it more efficient than the united states, but also added, if someone accelerates and speeds up the arm race, it's not us. just a short time later, president-elect donald trump followed up his tweet from yesterday with our own mika. >> mika asked the president-elect what his position was on trying to clarify the tweet yesterday regarding the nuclear arsenal
and the president-elect told you what? >> let it be an arms race. we will outmatch them at every pass. >> and outlast them all. >> let it be an arms race. senior for foreign relations. i want to play what kellyanne conway said to rachel maddow when she was trying to clarify that original tweet from donald trump where he talked about strengthening and expanding nuclear capability. let's listen and react on the other side. >> india and pakistan don't have any muk lenuclear weapons on st. >> we're getting ahead of our selves. >> that's what's happened in the past with even joking remarks about nuclear weapons. i think what i'm trying to get at is that a lot of people are hiding under the bed right now
because it doesn't seem like he knows what he's talking about on this issue. >> not true. not fair. not policy on twitter. >> expanding our nuclear arsenal and announcing it on twitter. >> he said our capability and perhaps he is also echoing what president obama himself is trying to do here which is get upgrades to the nuclear systems. i saw in one or two or three reports to the tune of a price tag of a trillion dollars. so, but again, he is talking about keeping us safe and secure. in a perfect world, we wouldn't talk about weapons. it is not a perfect world. these exist and it's a world in which military might -- no, he didn't say that. >> expanding nuclear capability. all right. >> in the world in which we live, which is not perfect, in fact, it's very dangerous and uncertain, i hope we can all agree, military might has been one of the ways to deter people from doing bad things. now, that could take on any number of different aspects. but on this one, i think it's
too far ahead of ourselves with policy and making policy in a way that he did not intend. >> the president making policy happens whenever the president speaks on a national security matter. >> great point from rachel maddow. kellyanne saying we're getting ahead of ourselves but less than 12 hours later, said let it be an arms race. what is going on here? is donald trump doing this with some degree of premeditation or is he flying by the seat of his pants on this? and who exactly is advising him and is anyone in his team, maybe you don't know this, is anyone saying, you got to lay off twitter when it comes to nuclear bombs? i mean, that might be an area not to get involved in? >> i'm not going to get between the president and his twitter account. i think it is likely he's reacting to something he heard
in a briefing. that's what people say about the president-elect. so far, i haven't heard. >> you hing think he heard some. >> there's a learning curve when it comes to nuclear weapons. so far, i haven't heard anybody remind us that there's a treaty in place between the united states and russia that limits their strategic nuclear weapons to 1500 warheads and stit's in place until 2021. >> do you believe that treaty is going to stay in place or could be broken by this incoming administration or potentially the russians? >> you know, the president-elect didn't say anything much about nuclear policy in the campaign. except to criticize president obama for not modernizing it. i see kellyanne is saying, actually, what the president is doing is just modernizing it. talking about modernizing it,
the way president obama has been doing. so he is improvising here, but the underlying fact is there is a treaty in place. what will come after it is, of course, an open question and both american and russian officials have said different kinds of things about whether there should be new negotiations. the russians have tended to say, we don't need new talks but that was when their budget was booming. they're experiencing tighter bunl budgets now. i think it's entirely possible they will look at new strategic arms talks. >> you're an expert on this. probably no one better to ask on this. talk to me what it means, not having clarity for what donald trump believes in when it comes to nuclear expansion, potentially. maybe wanting to reduce the nuclear armaments that we have in this country and in russia.
if you don't have clarity, what does this mean for other countries? how do they react? do they know who's in charge right now given that president obama is still technically in office? >> i think they're probably clear that president obama is still in charge but they're looking to understand what the new team thinks and of course, what they discover is that the new team is not on top of the issues, is kind of divided, inexperienced, and still -- >> is that dangerous? is that dangerous? >> could be. this issue arises not out of nowhere, in the abstract. people start to worry about nuclear weapons when other confrontation takes place. that's why in europe, for example, in the past couple of years with russian aggression against ukraine, american allies have wondered about the american commitment to defend them.
in syria, president obama has been hesitant to get too involved because he's worried about a clash between russia and the united states and that could escalate. in situations like that, where the conflict goes and resolute, those are questions to begin thinking about nuclear weapons again. if you have a crisis between russia and the united states, of course, people will be reminded. not regulated by any agreement, thinking about china, for example, a much smaller set of nuclear forces but you know, what the president has said about taiwan and the existence of american security commitments in east asia, that means that in a crisis, you may have the united states and china looking at each other and wondering pre
and tough it out. >> looks like the cold war. could be with china. >> i have one other thing. this issue came up in putin's reasonable ca press conference. he dodged it the way that president-elect trump's team dodged it. press conference pours cold water on his cold war talk. when to take the president-elect literally? we'll talk much more objen that when we come back.
you heard what donald trump said to mika and how kellyanne conway tried to clarify it last night and i'm sure you heard how sean spicer tried to clarify it as well. do you think we're getting ahead of ourselves, ojoe? >> i think the president-elect donald trump has really been a master of understanding the difference between policy and messaging and likes to message on social media, a way to get to people in an unfiltered way and he did it all during the campaign very successfully. >> it's one thing talking about policy that might affect us domestically. what do you think about nuclear weapons on twitter? >> well, it's more of the same. >> are you comfortable with him tweeting about nuclear weapons, joe? >> i've been saying that. what i did say is there's a difference between policy and substantive policy and messaging and so he has chosen to be
unfiltered and message people because it moves folks, makes people stand straight up and listen to whatever it is he's talking about and to really question and the the policy may be altogether different but he's been masterful so far in being able to move numbers. >> we shouldn't be taking him literally. should we take him seriously or listen to what he's saying if this is not how it's going to end up? i'm a little confused. >> take him seriously. always take what he says seriously and because he's president-elect and about to be inaugurated, you've got to take him seriously. >> joe -- >> what i'm saying. >> go ahead. >> i just want to though if you personally are comfortable with the president-elect tweeting about a nuclear arms race, essentially. >> i've worked for a u.s. senator and i've worked in the white house for a u.s. president, neither one of them tweeted. i guess twitter wasn't really around when i worked for them.
i'm not sure that that would be the way, if i were president of the united states, and i'm not, that i would send signals, buff kinds of signals by virtue of social media. >> karine was talking about this with matt lahar saying donald trump was a strong leader. let's see how sean spicer put it and we'll react on the other side. >> other countries need to be put on notice he is not going to sit back and allow them to undermine our safety, our sovereignty. he is going to match other countries and take action. >> he's going to take action. basically saying that, also saying donald trump doesn't need to check with president obama because he is the president-elect. he said that a little bit later on fox news. do you think that this is a way to get other countries to take the united states more seriously as donald trump is saying it needs to? they need to? >> katy, let me first say this.
no one wins a nuclear arms race. there are no winners here. and what donald trump needs to realize is that this is not a reality tv show. this is the real world. and the things that he's doing will have real life consequences and what he's doing is incredibly and trying to get into it with putin. he needs to take his intelligence briefings and stop thinking that he's smarter than the generals which he has said before and another thing i have thought about, katy, if president-elect back in 2008 had done anything that donald trump is doing today, we would all be apoplectic about it and when he was asked about issues about world issues, he actually did the complete opposite and said, i cannot comment on this because george w. bush was president at the time.
>> this is what his voters voted for. they voted for somebody not to have shades of gray and not going to be subtle, as president obama had been. they wanted somebody who was going to come out and say things like they were. maybe in 140 characters. is this what the country asked for? >> not really. if you look at the focus group, his voters are concerned of how he is using his twitter account. he has one of the lowest favorability numbers as a president-elect that we've seen in a very long time. so no, he's not doing a good job. he's not moving his numbers. if anything, there are people even his voters that are really concerned about how his lack of temperament and moving forward with the cabinet picks and as president-elect. >> joe, one final question. what point do you become concerned with the president-elect going, taking to twitter to state his policies, even if they're not going to actually be his policies?
>> i know that presidencies are fashioned not just by what presidents may say in social media but by the people with whom they surround themselves with and i know he surrounds himself with a lot of very thoughtful people and very experienced people, people who certainly understand domestic as well as international policy. so i take a lot of solace th knowing he's surrounding himself with great intelligence. >> who do you like that's around him? who's the person that gives you great solace? >> well, his pick for his secretary of state, surprisingly. >> he's got no government experience. >> no, but he's somebody who has worldwide international experience. >> talk to me about military matters though. secretary of state is more diplomacy. surrounding him on military mat ers? >> general mattis is going to be a secretary of defense and
despite the nickname he has of mad dog, he gets high marks from democrats and republicans for being very balanced person. so somebody that's going to be well positioned to give the president excellent advice in regard to defense matters. >> and travelers with his own library. joe watkins, thank you, karine jean-pierre. much more here on msnbc. stay with us. wait...is this where you typically shop? you should be getting double miles on every purchase! switch...to the capital one venture card. with venture, you earn unlimited double miles on every purchase, everywhere, every day. not just ...(dismissively) airline purchases. seriously... double miles... everywhere. what's in your wallet?
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