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tv   MSNBC Live  MSNBC  December 24, 2016 4:00am-5:01am PST

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good morning, everyone. i'm dara brown in new york at msnbc world headquarters. it's 7:00 in the east, 4:00 out west. here's what's happening -- harrowing moments. stormy weather in parts of the country leave at least one plane skidding off a taxiway. and it it was carrying a pro sports team. at odds, the president-elect and obama white house taking two different approaches on big issues. the latest on israel in a dramatic way. heightened security. new threats from isis on public places in the u.s. see what officials are doing to secure the homeland. and the berlin attack. new questions today about how someone police have been tracking could slip through the cracks to commit an act of terror.
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we begin with dangerous weather. a very snowy wisconsin. the minnesota vikings team plane skid off the runway last night. officials say the plane was taxiing when the rear wheel skidded off the runway and got stuck. no injuries and the team was left off the plane after a four-hour delay. for a look at the weather across the country, msnbc meteorologist bonnie schneider. are we seeing trouble spots today? >> we are. a busy christmas weekend for so many that are traveling especially in the west. we have a vigorous storm system bringing rain to southern california. snow in the higher elevations. this storm system is on the way. it will develop across the four corners, bringing heavy snow eventually to the northern plains, and across the rockies and sierra. with the wind as fierce as we're projecting especially into north dakota, this will be a full-fledged blizzard. the gusts could get as high as 50 miles per hour. icy conditions for minneapolis. severe storms to the south. so stormy weather through christmas day, as well. if you're looking for a white
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christmas, snow cover, salt lake city seeing several inches of snow. maybe more into the -- the mountains of utah. look at the snow expected in the northern tier. even snow across the southwest. so some folks will be getting that white christmas. no delays right now. remember, it's early in the morning. this is going to change. i'm anticipating a lot of delays as we go through the rest of the day today and into tomorrow. here's where we can expect them. in salt lake, snow and wind. las vegas, heavy rain. also expect delays out west. new york city, light rain. we'll continue to see that for today. tomorrow, the freezing rain in minneapolis. now that will change over to all rain in the afternoon. if you're driving early or flying early on christmas morning, be careful in minneapolis. light snow and wind in denver. and some rain for chicago. further off to the east, looking at wet weather. if you're driving on i-40, you're encountering rain across much of tennessee. all along 95, northward. especially into the baltimore area. washington, d.c., some heavy downpours happening right now.
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mild temperatures. that's on the positive side. warm conditions in the east. i'll tell you what, things are going to change. before 2017, we'll see much of the east coast get colder, potentially snowier. busy week ahead. >> thank you very much. we'll check back with you later. now to politics. and new fallout this morning over the obama administration's decision to abstain from a u.n. vote demanding israel put an end to jewish settlements. the move by the u.s. allowed the measure to pass. israel had reportedly lobbied the trump camp to push the obama white house to veto the measure. in a statement, republican senator lindsey graham said "any nation which backs this resolution and receives assistance from the united states will put that assistance in jeopardy." democratic senator chuck schumer called the move extremely frustrating and confounding. the president-elect tweeted, "as to the u.n., things will be different after january 20th." the unprecedented diplomatic snub is the latest in what "the new york times" is calling a turf war between president obama and his successor during this
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transition of power. as the trump transition team deals with fallout over the rockettes performing at the inauguration, nbc is learning that the archbishop of new york, cardinal timothy dolan, will participate in the events. you'll recall cardinal doland sat in between clinton and trump during the al smith dinner weeks before election day. the transition team isn't commenting on the cardinal's involvement. joining me, jonathan allen, columnist for "roll call" and co-author of hrc. alex bolton, senior staff writer at the hill. thanks for being here, gentlemen. >> good morning. >> let's start with today's "new york times" article. writing about the apparent turf war that's developed between the trump and obama camps. first off, is there really a turf war here? and when weather -- and when weather is it the worst? >> absolutely, president obama wants to finish out thetorium which he was elected. donald trump feels -- term to which he was elected. donald trump feels that he doesn't want to change too much american policy before he gets in the door. there is a turf war.
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the most recent case is an illustrative one where they have separate policies regarding the israel settlements and the u.n. vote on that. president obama didn't exercise that veto that donald trump wanted him to. frankly, i'm surprised donald trump didn't ask vladimir putin, his close friend, to exercise a veto power there. but yeah, i think this is a real struggle. typically the incoming president will allow the outgoing president to continue his presidency. and the danger here for donald trump, of course, is that president obama remains more popular than donald trump does. normally during a transition process, the incoming president-elect has 65% or higher approval rating, as alex's paper pointed out this week. now, donald trump is mired in the 40s. president obama's about 56. >> well, alex, i want to ask you because a break with tradition on the israel vote. a lot of democrats in the house and senate sided with the trump camp on this one. how unusual is the vote and the reaction? >> what's unusual is you have
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democrats siding with trump over obama on the issue. one of the few domes side with obama is dianne feinstein, outgoing ranking democrat on the intelligence committee. she expressed frustration with israel and prime minister netanyahu for allowing these settlement to go forward in the west bank. she says that it's an obstacle to the two-state solution. she's not happy. but other democrats have sided with trump on this. schumer, as you mentioned, also nancy pelosi, house democratic leader. she put out a statement. while not criticizing obama, basically saying that the resolution was counterproductive to negotiations between israel and palestine. in is one of the few issues where the democrats are siding with trump. schumer, who praised -- who condemned the resolution, he's noted that on the issues, on several issues trump is closer to democrats than he is to republicans. he's definitely looking to strengthen that allegiance and potential alliance going into the new election cycle.
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>> it will be interesting how that works as january and february unfold here. so jonathan, on trump's tweets over the past couple of days on the nuclear arms and a new "washington post" article calling it the chaos theory of trump. is there any sense that there's strategy here, or is this all just spur of the moment ramblings? could it be like ronald reagan when he jokingly said toward the old soviet union, you know, we begin bombing in five minutes? is that what we're dealing with? >> the original open mic moment there with ronald reagan. i think the "washington post" hits the nail on the head here. i think there's a chaos theory to this. trump puts out things he knows are going to be provocative. makes it difficult to -- for others to know where he's coming from. i think that that's been advantageous it him in the past in terms of trying to leverage what he wants for a deal. if the other side knows what you want, it's harder to get that. if the other side is unsure of what you want and you know what you want, that's an advantage. i think over time, though, it's hard to conduct domestic or
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foreign policy that way. and he'll probably find that once he gets in the white house. >> alex, what's your take on the hill? what's the most alarming statement that trump has made? >> i think probably the most alarm could statement is declaring on twitter that the u.s. is going to expand its nuclear capabilities. >> scary. >> that is -- a lot of concern after the election was what trump's impact on foreign policy would be. fighting with china over a drone and saying that china can keep the drone that they seized, undercutting the obama administration's negotiations with china, that was annoying. i think when you get into the realm of nuclear capabilities, it's something that could end life on this planet as we know it. that is what really alarms people. and eliot engel, senior democrat on the foreign affairs committee, put out a statement saying that trump needs to be more cautious. that's what's alarmed folks on the hill the most. >> alex, what about the letter from vladimir putin that trump released? trump paysing putin after receiving it. does anyone in d.c. thinking
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this is up to putin or a dangerous game? >> people are worried that putin can have his way with trump by praising him. that trump responds to what people say about him and that's how he views them. it seems putin is trying to manipulate this by praising trump and then trump, in turn, praises putin. the question is, is trump being taken in by putin. i think that's the concern. i think republicans who have faith in trump think he's more savvy than that, that this is gamesmanship. but the fact that he does have such a tight relationship with putin when u.s. and russian interests are at odds and around the world, syria and other places, they question when this charm offensive is too effective or more effective than makes them comfortable. >> jonathan, real quick. is this how the next four years are going to be? all of us held hostage so to speak by the next tweet from donald trump? history do you think this will fade when he's in office? >> yeah, say good-bye to christmas breaks.
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the news media is going to be chasing him every ten seconds. the american public will probably tune it out at some point. the next four years radio r going to be -- even if he's not using twitter, it will be brief press conferences or ways he's communicating that get past the official channels of washington. >> keeping everybody on their toes. jonathan allen, alex baldwin, thank you very much. >> thanks for having us. >> take care, dara. happening now, a large snowstorm is taking aim at parts of the west. and central portion of the country, hammering travel plans for millions this holiday weekend. both on the road and in the air. nbc's kerry sanders is at miami national airport. good morning r. there delays where you are right now? >> reporter: well, there are slowdowns, not major delays. but you know, you're probably wondering -- you talked about the snow. i'm in miami. it never snows here. but it doesn't mean that there won't be ripple effects across the country. not only for miami, for all airports. i think the old express is they sneeze, the rest of the country catches a cold. that will apply today.
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we've already seen about 56 delays across the country. two canceled flights at airports across the country. but if you're traveling today, just hope that your trip is not as eventful as it was for one nfl team. vikings in need of a rescue last night. >> the fire ladder -- >> c.p. >> reporter: the minnesota football players evacuated from their plane after it slid off the runway in the snow in wisconsin. snow that's making travel tricky. from iowa where drivers are struggling to stay on the highway to spokane, washington, where more than 20 vehicles were involved in a pileup. amazingly no one was hurt. drivers in northern california, meanwhile, hoping to avoid a similar fate, putting chains on their tires. in the southern part of the state, it's rain causing problems. in los angeles -- >> and it's more traffic. >> reporter: a record 103 million people are expected to travel this holiday season, with
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nearly 94 million hitting the road. >> now we're sitting still. >> reporter: at e airport so far, a mixed bag. >> i'm glad we've got a lot of leeway becausehere's flow way if i was even here two hours early, i don't think i'd make a flight. >> as you see, there are no lines. no lines at all. >> reporter: in newark, new jersey, friday, getting to the airport was a headache for some when an air train got stuck. onepansioner tweeting, "-- one passenger tweeting, "hundreds stranded. send help." for other flyers, potentially facing long lines or delayed flights, not a concern. >> i'm not worried. hey, it's the holiday travel. merry christmas. >> reporter: so you're going to be the smart one and not drive to the airport and park your car. you're going to do something like take an uber or lyft. everybody's doing that today. if you're going to the airport and doing that, just remember, there's going to be a backup with traffic just to get to the
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airport, as i saw in miami international this morning. make sure you try to have some holiday cheer and make sure it's everybody around you is in the same rush. here's a little bit of reason to smile maybe if you're traveling today. these are kinds of like my runway landing tlooits airport. merry christmas -- lights at the airport. merry christmas. >> to you, as well. so, where the president-elect stands when it comes to the nuclear option and yp it has some national securityperts csecurit securisecurity -- security experts confused. i'm in this for me. for me. along with diet and exercise, farxiga helps lower blood sugar in adults with type 2 diabetes, lowering a1c by up to 1.2 points. do not take if allergic to farxiga. if you experience symptoms of a serious allergic reaction such as rash, swelling, difficulty breathing or swallowing, stop taking and seek medical help right away. do not take farxiga if you have severe kidney problems,
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you get sneaky-good coverage. thanks. tadirectv now. stream all your entertainment! anywhere! anytime! can we lose the 'all'. there's no cbs and we don't have a ton of sports. anywhere, any... let's lose the 'anywhere, anytime' too. you can't download on-the-go, there's no dvr, yada yada yada. stream some stuff! somewhere! sometimes! you totally nailed that buddy. simple. don't let directv now limit your entertainment. only xfinity gives you more to stream to any screen. we go to the middle east this hour. this is a live look from bethlehem right now. tourists and religious pilgrims have gathered for christmas eve celebrations. activities are building for tonight's midnight mass at the church of the nativity. now after a campaign season
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like no other, new signs that this hand over of power is also following a new set of rules. the handling of the u.n. vote on israel making that clear yesterday. nbc's kelly o'donnell is in west palm beach, florida, where the president-elect is vacationing. kelly has the latest. >> reporter: a divide between the president and president in waiting over israel. >> the united states did not vote in favor of the resolution. >> reporter: friday when the united nations vote to rebuke israel, the current ambassador to the u.n. told the world the obama administration would not get involved, skipping the vote. less than an hour later, donald trump sent his own message on twitter. "as to the u.n., things will be different after january 20th." but some experts caution trump to wait his turn. >> now we have the very difficult situation of two people speaking for the united states. >> reporter: in palm beach, mixing work and play. trump made no official
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appearances in florida but did not need to be seen to be heard. on foreign policy, trump's team released a congratulatory message from russia's president. trump described "as a very nice letter from vladimir putin. his thoughts are so correct." putin referred to trump as "his excellency." and "encouraged improved u.s.-russia relations." sharing that letter came after criticism of the president-elect for bold comments that contradict years of u.s. policy to reduce global nuclear weapons. trump tweeted, "the united states must greatly strengthen and expand its nuclear capability." some experts expressed concerns that trump is making pronouncements before taking office. >> certainly doesn't bode well for dealing with serious issues when it's nuclear weapons, terrorism, syria, what have you. >> reporter: twitter is not the president-elect's only pastime. saturday he played his first round of golf since the election with tiger woods. a tweeted photo showed trump's
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granddaughters, kai, was on the links, too. >> thank you, kelly o'donnell in west palm beach. on friday, russian president vladimir putin held his annual year-end press conference and responded to trump's nuclear tweet. >> translator: the prerequisites for a new arms race appeared when the united states withdrew from the missile defense treaty, and this is obvious. if someone accelerates and speeds up the arms race, it's not us. >> let's bring in ken delaney, intelligence and national security reporter for the nbc news investigative unit, and good morning to you. yesterday, nuclear security experts struggling to figure out what trump means with the comments. what's the consensus so far? >> good morning. well, there is no consensus. and that's remarkable in its own right. i mean, as you were mentioning earlier, some people are reading
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this as the chaos theory of the trump presidency. and where he's tweeting things and you're not sure what he means. that's intentional. others, though, are taking him very seriously. in part because of the way this transpired. as you know, he tweeted that the u.s. should expand its nuclear arsenal. aides sought to clean it up and say that's not what he means. he doesn't want to construct more nuclear weapons. then he weighed in to our own mika brzezinski saying if there's an arms race, we're going to win it. some are taking that very seriously and finding it quite troubling. leaving aside -- in is troubling on two points out there. nuclear weapons policy is something carefully poured over normally. when presidents speak about nuclear weapons, those words are parsed. that is not what happened in this case. secondly in general, when you have a president where you don't understand what his words are -- mean and what he's trying to say, that can cause all kinds of problems in u.s. foreign policy. >> ken, you say that people are
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taking this seriously. so is it as serious as sounds? are the concerns about reigniting the nuclear arms race justified? >> well, so if -- again, you know, nobody's sure what trump is talking about here. if he's just saying, i'm good with modernizing the nuclear force, that's president obama's policy. president obama wants to spend nearly $1 trillion over 30 years to motderrize and upgrade -- modernize and upgrade the aging nuclear triad. if trump is saying i want to build more nuclear weapons, that's up-ending decades of consensus that fewer nuclear weapons is better for the world. and a lot of people would be greatly troubled by that. and you know, russia and china may react. russia's already modernizing its nuclear forces. a lot of experts are worried that this is going to create a more dangerous world. >> realistically, what can trump do to the u.s. nuclear arsenal? how much power does he have? >> that's an interesting point. you know, the president can start a nuclear war under our system. the president can't buy a pencil generally without congressional authorization. so trump can't expand the
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nuclear arsenal on his own. he's going to need the help of congress to do that. he's going to learn that it's going to cost billions upon billions of dollars. he wants to cut taxes and build infrastructure. it remains to be seen when he's actually going to follow through with this idea if he does, in fact, was to expand the nuclear arsenal. >> following with his ideas here, how do his tweets play into this? are there other countries, particularly russia, taking them seriously as an indication of his policy? >> well, that's not entirely clear now. i mean, in general, in the past, the world has taken the utterances of president-elects tremendously seriously, right? people are starting to say,em with, you got to take trump with a grain of salt. don't take him literally. that can cause its own problems in a world where you've got nuclear-armed north korea that gets offended at the slightest utterance . you know, so -- there's the issue of does the president continue to tweet offhand with an unsecure phone? at some point will the secret
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service say, look, sir, we need to get you a more secure phone that can't be bugged. >> interesting days ahead. ken delaney, thank you very much for your time this morning. >> merry christmas. great to be with you. ivanka trump becomes the target of political tensions on a commercial flight. is it okay to protest the soon havana to-be first daughter in public even when she's with her children? some answers coming up. hey there, starting your search for the ri am!used car? you got it.
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tadirectv now. stream all your entertainment! anywhere! anytime! can we lose the 'all'. there's no cbs and we don't have a ton of sports. anywhere, any... let's lose the 'anywhere, anytime' too. you can't download on-the-go, there's no dvr, yada yada yada. stream some stuff! somewhere! sometimes! you totally nailed that buddy. simple. don't let directv now limit your entertainment. only xfinity gives you more to stream to any screen. welcome back. i'm dara brown here at msnbc world headquarters in new york. at the half hour, here's what we're monitoring -- authorities are expressing relief that the search for anis amri is over. there are still many questions surrounding the main suspect in the deadly attack in berlin. amri was killed in a shoot-out with police in milan, italy, after a four-day run. the confrontation began with a
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routine i.d. check. nbc has more from milan where it all happened. hans? >> reporter: german and italian authorities are investigating just why anis amri decided to come here, a neighborhood of milan, after slipping through germany's security net. he was shot and killed just behind me after exchanging gunfire with two police trainees. the bullets that fell amri ended the manhunt but didn't close the investigation. fingerprints from his corpse matching those inside the truck that barrelled through a berlin christmas market. but forensics not answering how the 24-year-old tunisian became radicalized, why he decided to return to italy where he spent 3.5 years in prison, and why milan. his brother offering no answers, telling nbc news that he was "ashamed of what he did." >> translator: in milan -- >> reporter: in milan, police
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proud of their police work. recriminations mixed with belief. still, questions on why police stopped their surveillance of amri a few months ago and flounderred these last few days. amri knifing through borders from germany to france, then italy. all with authorities on high alert. by 9:00 p.m. on thursday, he was in turin, then milan four hours later. ending here at 3:00 a.m. on friday morning. confronted by two police officers outside the train station, first words. police -- italian, then gun play. the result, a body in a park lot. no i.d. and no cell phone. several hundred euros. u.s. isis released a shaky video of amri pledging allegiance to the group. tourists with conflicted feelings. >> i am concerned obviously at the same time. i don't feel unsafe. >> reporter: germany's top prosecutor looking to improve the state's response.
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the priority -- finding out if amri mhas "a network of supporters." at the train station, i see at least three security cameras making it possible that anis amri's final moments were caught on camera. dara? >> hans nichols from milan. chris dicky, foreign editor for "the daily beast" and msnbc contributor. great to have you here. the attacker was on the radar of local german authorities and known to the u.s. intelligence officials. even listed on the no-fly list. seems inexplicable that he slipped through the cracks. so much so that he was able to undertake the attack. is it inexplicable? >> it's explicable but doesn't make you feel better to explain it. they started monitoring him in march. they were listening to his phone conversations in germany. they heard him talking about plotting an attack. but when they went to get a warrant to follow him and to pursue him over the months of
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the summer, at one point even arresting him and holding him for two days for fake papers, what they thought was that he would stage a burglary or holdup, use the money from that to buy guns, and then with those guns carry out an attack. when he didn't fit into that plan of theirs, the reason that they had for surveilling him, they dropped the surveillance in september. after that, he genuinely fell through the cracks and started plotting what we now know was this horrible truck attack in berlin. again, there's no excuse because all three the autumn, european authorities not only in germany, also in france, also in spain were busy trying to disrupt plotted truck attacks that were planned for around the christmas season. they succeeded here in france in november. they succeeded in spain. but apparently obviously the germans didn't catch on to what was about to happen.
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>> and a new article in the "washington post" has the resign "europe may face a grim future with terrorism as a fact of life." do you agree? >> yeah, i do agree. i think there's no way around it. i think we're all going to get used to heightened alerts at the four or five level that would be in most of these countries. and a lot of police on the streets. already here in paris, we're in a state of emergency. and we have been since november, 2015. it's perfectly common to see soldiers in full battle dress walking around the streets of paris with high-powered automatic rifles. bulletproof vests and all the gear necessary for combat. it's a way of life in the city. >> is there something about the european union's structure that makes the attacks more difficult to prevent? plus, the guy escaped all the way to milan. that seems remarkable in itself.
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or does it? >> well, especially when you think that he came through france. remember, this is a country that's already got a state of emergency. so he carries out this attack in berlin and then makes it all the way to leon, a major cit here in france, without anybody paying any attention to him as far as we can tell. he goes from leon, catches a high-speed train to turin in milan. nobody picks up on him. and the fact is as far as we can tell, these two policemen who stopped him at 3:08 in the morning in the outskirts of milan stopped for a random check at 3:00 in the morning, what is this guy doing at this hour? he initially told them he was from southern italy. he said he didn't have hiss i his papers. hery -- his papers. he reached in his backpack and
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started shooting. the rookie shot back and killed him. >> and chris, do you see a conflict between counterterrorism efforts and desire for limited government surveillance when it comes to cases like this berlin truck attack? >> sure. there's a huge conflict. people need to understand much better what surveillance is all about. first of all, we need to understand that in the world of the internet, in the world of fiber optic cables carrying huge volumes of signals, basically the only thing at that intelligence services can do is try and pick up everything and then filter out what they don't need. now, if you want to protest against surveillance, you can say, well, they're monitoring all of us. that isn't the case. yes, they're picking up just about all of our communications, but they have to figure out ways to get just the people they want. we're long past the time when there was a wire that you could tap that went to a phone people had in their bedrooms next to their beds. that's not the way of surveillance anymore.
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and in order to get what they need, there's going to have to be really very massive monitoring and collection of phone conversations, internet communications, and so on. specifically almost all the terror attacks we've seen plotted, thwarted, and carried out in europe over the last year have been coordinated by the so-called islamic state over an encrypted messaging system that you and i could have on our phones. in fact, i have it on my phone called telegram. using that system, these terrorists have been able to evade some of the most sophisticated monitoring that exists in the world. >> chris, if the u.s. had similar surveillance on a suspect like this, everything was the same, would the u.s. have been able to stop such an attack, or would he not have been able to slip through the cracks here? >> well, i think the u.s. has done a very good job so far and has been lucky on other
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occasions. but there's certainly a chance for somebody to slip through the cracks in the united states. i think one of the questions with immigration that comes up when you talk about terrorism is when you've got somebody who's convicted of a crime, somebody who's suspected of being -- of having terrorist connections, if you think the best way to handle them is to get them out of the country, then the country you're sending them to, their home country, has to take them back. in the case of amri, tunisia said we've never heard of this guy, we can't find the papers, we don't want to take him back. they found his papers two days after he carried out the berlin attacks. we have similar situations in the united states of convicted felons who the united states wants to deport, but the countries they come from for one reason or another won't take them back. that's obviously something that has to change. >> chris dicky, thank you very much for your insight. appreciate you being here. >> thank you. is ivanka trump fair game
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for protesters in public? and when does it cross the line? a conversation next. plus, in the next hour, keeping people safe during the holidays. how the u.s. routinely protects churches, tourist areas, and other soft targets. ♪ ♪ see ya next year.
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what is your concern when you see what sounds like now policy being made on twitter? >> this is no way to run a country. every word matters. strengthen the nuclear arsenal, fine. expand it? everybody's harping on that word, when donald trump meant it or not. he is changing u.s. policy. >> that was part of andrea mitchell's report on the "today" show friday about president-elect trump calling for greatly expanded u.s. nuclear capability. it is a break from u.s. policy going back decades, and a major break from president obama who's convened four nuclear security summits. joining me, sarah isner flores, former campaign manager for
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carly fiorina, joe watkins, former white house aide for president george h.w. bush, and rick tyler, msnbc analyst and former spokesman for ted cruz's presidential campaign. great to have you guys this morning. >> good morning. >> hi. >> let's start with you, joe. trump said friday, let it be an arms race. if he wants to do this, he will need a lot of money from congress. how seriously do you take these statements? >> well, i think there's a difference between messaging and policy, of course. you know, messaging is something that he did successfully during the campaign using twitter to talk to his base and voters. he's doing the same as pinellas county. and obviously it's very difficult from policy which is substantive, of course, costs money, and usually needs the support of congress to enact. so i submit that there's a big difference. donald trump has not yet come to that point.
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nonetheless, there's a difference between messaging and policy. >> okay. >> rick, i was to ask but this part of kellyanne conway's interview thursday. take a listen. >> saying we're going to expand the nuclear capability -- >> he's not necessarily saying that -- >> he did literally say we need to expand our nuclear capability. >> what he's saying is we need to expand our nuclear readiness or capability to be ready for nose who also have nuclear weapons -- those who also have nuclear weapons. he's putting the world on notice that he will do what he thinks he needs to to keep us safe and secure. >> by expanding our nuclear capability. >> but -- >> this -- >> not trying to change a policy through twitter. >> rick, you've said there's a lot of political posturing here. that's similar to what joe is saying. how quickly can posturing evolve into a danger, a crisis here? >> the problem is messaging should follow spock, as joe was pointing out. here we have message proceeding policy. it is the existing policy of the united states to upgrade our nuclear capability, not
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necessarily expand it. but we signed the start -- the new s.t.a.r.t. treaty in 2010. it will expire in 2021. is donald trump saying he wants to go beyond the s.t.a.r.t. treaty in and case he's going to violate the treaty, or is he acknowledging that barack obama had already signed the upgrade of our military nuclear weapons capability? it just has led to a lot more questions than answers. and so i do think they should flesh out what the policy is, we're not sure what it is, and we can work on the messaging. >> posturing or not, sarah, you heard the sound bite at the top of the segment. every word matters when it comes to nukes. how dangerous is trump's willingness to dive into complex and delicate issues like nuclear arms especially by using twitter? >> i think there is overblown. the fact is that president-elect trump is projecting americans' strength abroad, something that las vegthat ronald reagan did when he took
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office in 1980. it made the left crazy and the media crazy, and he won the cold war. the idea that this is some huge change in policy or something else, i don't think it is. i think in the end this will be about sending a signal to russia. they have doubled their gdp spending on defense, while america sat by and has done nothing. we haven't stood by our allies, as we saw yesterday on the vote at the u.n. this is about signaling a change in u.s. tone when its t -- when it comes to our role in the world. i think that will be a west coast change for the american people to signal strength rather than retreating and weakness. not standing with our allies, and when it's a red line or syria or anywhere else in the world, not standing by our commitments. >> and sarah, you -- you along with joe and rick, you've been more or less anti-trump. isn't this exactly the kind of behavior that led you to this position? what do you think? >> no, i mean, we had a rough primary. and in the general election, we wanted someone who was a conservative and a republican to represent those values. now that trump has won and we
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see his cabinet and see that coming together, i think it's been a positive sign in that direction for conservatives and republicans. now we'll see what he does when he's in office. there's been a lot of tea reading in between that time. i think again it's been positive so far. and we'll see what he does when he's in office. projecting strength abroad, fixing our foreign policy that's been a disaster over the last eight years, capped off by this israel vote, i don't think it could be more damaging than that vote yesterday which is why there's bipartisan condemnation of it. >> and rick, what's your take on this? >> well, look, i've been a skeptic, i remain a skeptic. i agree with sarah that the transition has been really remarkably, going remarkably well in my opinion because of the people that he's choosing. when you look at president putin's letter to -- incoming president-elect trump which is full of flattery and condemns the democrats and hillary clinton, seemingly to play into donald trump and flattery, but
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he also says we want to work in constructive relationship. donald trump praised that letter. but the problem is, how does that square with aleppo and the fact that it is the russians along with the assad regime that are bombing civilians, hospitals, and schools? how does that square with putin's breach of sovereign borders in ukraine? how does that square with that putin has moved away from the democratic reforms russia had into more of an autocratic dictatorship? so i don't see how those -- he could have been much strong on those things as opposed to picking on the nuclear issue. >> joe, what about your take? do you think trump is moving into dangerous territory here? >> well, i think he's being consistent. i mean, one thing that he's been consistent about is that it's hard to know where he may stand on an issue. and somebody who may be a friend today could be an enemy tomorrow or vice versa. someone with whom he's had a
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terrible spat could be someone with whom he gets along. i think he's being consistent. he's setting the same signals to the world. he's willing to be friendly early on, but that could change on a dime. he's also saying, as we see by his tweet the other day, that, you know, if there's going to be a race, he's not going to shy away from a race, a nuclear race, which is obviously very different from policy. again, meant to be a message. so i think he's been consistent in that regard. that he doesn't want to be easily categorized by anybody. and he's proving to be difficult to categorize. >> sarah, joe, rick, please stick around. next up, ivanka trump getting harassed by a passage or a plane. is it okay even when she's with her family? crest complete presents sugar shield sugar is everywhere and crest complete has a sugar shield to protect teeth from sugar found in everyday foods. crest complete. shield your teeth from sugar. so sugar may visit, but it's not sticking around my hygienist told me to try... ...a mouthwash. so i tried crest.
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yada yada yada. stream some stuff! somewhere! sometimes! you totally nailed that buddy. simple. don't let directv now limit your entertainment. only xfinity gives you more to stream to any screen. now back to our political panel. trump's daughter confronted on a
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flight. joining me once again, sarah, joe and rick. do you think ivanka is fair game or is this in civility to some degree and something we will be hearing a lot about in the next four years? >> it would be nice in a perfect world for people to be civil with each other and people to treat each other with dignity, and people in public life anything is almost fair game, and my friends on the panel with me, you know, people recognize us and they might just stop us in the street or store and say about anything, and this is going to happen when you are daughter of the president of the united states, and they are going to say things that are not prepared and civil. i think the airline did the right thing by removing that person from the airline, but it's something she will have to deal with for the next four years. >> how fair game is ivanka? and when?
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is she fair game when she is with her family? >> she is a mother trying to take care of her kids and she's on a flight and there are other passengers, and many people are nervous flyers and they don't like the idea that it was confrontational, and it was good they took him off the plane, and she has to have thick skin and she will have to do it and i think it was completely inappropria inappropriate. >> she was flying coach and with secret service at the time, and was this a security risk and she's not a private person anymore? >> no, she's not, and i think they did their job and their job is to protect ivanka, and this was not a sidewalk, you know, and you have a first amendment right to criticize your government and that includes the first daughter but you do not have the right on a private
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plane to disrupt this flight and that's what this passenger did, and good for them. i want to turn to the inauguration. who is showing up. so far the only former president is jimmy carter, and as for the performers, the trump team getting concerned down by kiss and celine dion. do you think there's a lack of enthusiasm here? how are you reading this? >> we note entertainment industry is dominated by the left, and i bet there are performers who won't go but are fearful of their future earnings, which is a shame, and it's ironic because trump does things in an over the top glitzy sort of way, and you would expect that in with inaugural, but so far looks like it will be understated. >> sarah, what is your take on this? >> back when we were talking
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about the republican convention, and there was a lot of hand ringing temperature nobody would go and speak at it, and as it turned out, the republican convention was great and the democratic was the one that was not, and so i think a lot of people will come and show up. >> we have yet to see who shows up at the inauguration. certainly the number of stars that show up won't be what defines the presidency much donald trump going forward, but i am sure no matter who shows up it's going to be a great parter. >> the former president, and we only had one that rsvp'd? >> we will see what the others do. you never know. there's lots to consider. there's a chance they will show up, and we will see. >> thank you so much for being here. appreciate it. >> thank you. >> thank you, and marerry
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christm christmas. >> thank you for watching. ayman mohyeldin takes over at the top of the hour, and he will have more on the heightened security in the places of worship over the weekend and whether it's warranted. type 2 diabetes. listen up. we're not professional athletes... but that doesn't mean we're giving up. i'm in this for me. for me. along with diet and exercise, farxiga helps lower blood sugar in adults with type 2 diabetes, lowering a1c by up to 1.2 points.
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good saturday morning, everybody. i am ayman mohyeldin at msnbc headquarters in new york. and there's a call from isis supporters to attack churches and holiday gatherings. police were seen outside of st. patri patrick's cathedral, and morgan, do people feel

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