tv All In With Chris Hayes MSNBC December 27, 2016 8:00pm-9:01pm PST
friends and thousands of kids in malawi, new hope. ♪ ♪ ♪ tonight on "all in." >> the united states has only one government and one president at a time. >> president-elect trump injects himself into current foreign policy 24 days before he takes office. plus as trump suggests expanding america's nuclear arsenal, we' look at how close the world actually came to annihilation. >> translator: if a matter of two minutes, a third, fourth, and fifth missile were reported launch. >> then, the obama affect.
>> i think it could have mobilize add majority of the american people. >> i'll speak with president obama's former speech writer about the state of the democratic party. and remembering carrie fisher. >> nobody rognizes you? >> just one guy who had seen it 12 times. >> a look back at the legends lost this year when "all in" starts right now. good evening, from new york i'm chris hayes, we are now 24 days away from donald trump becoming president which means that barack obama remains president of the united states for the next 24 days. but you would not know it from listening to donald trump who has repeatedly violated a long-standing and quite important norm in american politics, one that president obama stressed in his first news conference days after he was elected way back in november, 2008 amidst the worst financial crisis since the great depression. >> the united states has only one government and one president
at a time. on january 20 of the next year, the government is that current administration. i have to reiterate once again that we have one president at a time and i want to be careful that we are sending the right signals to the world as a whole that i am not the president and i won be until january 20. >>resident-elect obamaad good reason to be careful. his wos has the potential to undermine then president bush on the world stage in the midst of the global financial crisis and hurt american interests in the process. donald trump hasn't just discarded that approach, he has been working directly with the foreign government in a concerted effort to undermine the current administration. on friday, the united nations passed a resolution demanding that israel stop building settlements in palestinian territory in the west bank and east jerusalem declaring the settlements in violation of international law. the u.s. has long opposed to settlements but it's stopped short of calling them illegal in the word of the u.n. resolution.
the obama administration could have used its veto power to block the resolution but instead abstained which allowed the measure to pass on a 14-0 vote. before the vote, president-elect trump intervened to try to stop it, reportedly after direct requests from israeli officials with trump reporting "the resolution should be vetoed." the israeli ambassador wrote "israel deeply appreciates the clear and unequivocal call of president-elect donald trump." so you have donald trump and israel working in concert against the current administration's foreign policy efforts. when the resolution passed anyway, israel responded with fury. prime minister benjamin netanyahu saying he looks forward to working with trump and accusing the obama administration of orchestrating the u.n. vote, something the administration denies. here's israeli ambassador ron durmer making that claim. >> we'll share the proof with the incoming administration through the appropriate channels and they can decidhether they
want to share that with the american pele. we won't share it with this administration because this administration is behind it. >> the administration he's talking about, it's worth noting, finalized a deal in september to give israel $38 billion in military aid over 10 years, a new record for u.s. military aid to israel and as for trump he claimed in a twoet that "the big loss yet for israel and the united nations will make it much harder to negotiate peace." and vowed, ominously, as to the u.n. things will be different after january 20. trump later adding "the united nations has such great potential but right now is just a club for people to get together, talk and have a good time. so sad." i asked democratic congressman steve cohn what he makes of donald trump inserting himself into u.s. foreign policy before he takes office. >> between the time he was elected in january 20, he should leave foreign policy to president obama. the constitution gives executive foreign policy and it certainly doesn't give president-elect and what president-elect trump has done is out of character with our traditions in america and
it's disrespectful to the president and harmful to our foreign policy. >> what do you say to those, some of whom are democrats, who have been quite critical of the president's decision not to veto this resolution before the u.n. security council to say these were extraordinary times and it's a good thing that israel has an ally in donald trump. >> israel has an ally in barack obama and israel has an ally in the united states of america. we have supplied the president and the congress the largest foreign aid package ever to israel. we keep them one step ahead of others in the middle east with improved defense and offensive weapons and we give them iron dome. we have tried in all ways to bring about peace in the middle east and people who are supporters of j-street, as i am, are gnat capos like mr. friedman says. we love israel, we want israel to survive but we have a different thought on how they can get there and better to get
there through diplomacy and through a win-win proposition with the palestinians than the force of take it or leave it. >> it strikes me that when you look at the israeli government's reaction to this, ever you ever seen anything quite like how the netanyahu administration has handled this in which they have essentially said we will no locklock locker -- longer listen to the sitting president of the united states, we prefer to communicate with the president-elect, we are going to share information with him and essentially saying the current president is effectively dead to us. >> i think the ambassador from israel to the united states used to be an american citizen then he gave up his citizenship and became an israeli citizen. that's okay, but i have to question some of his positions. prime minister netanyahu laid down a gauntlet with the president and others when he came t speak t congress and went through speaker boehner
rather than approaching the president he has, i would say, extreme chutzpah, and that's not what you should have as a prime minister of the nation who needs the united states as its friend and ally and it's almost like all right, you've helped me so much and you've helped me now but now you're going out of office and i don't need to be friends with you anymore. it's a bad character trait on the part of the pri minisr to be treating president obama this way and it's a bad character trait to be treating the united nations this is way and to call in all of the ambassadors on christmas day was somewhat unfortunate because people do have religious holidays and the ambassadors were predominantly christians and to call them in on christmas day was impolitic. i think this whole situation has been unfortunate, he should haven't gone to donald trump and donald trump should haven't gotten involved in it. donald trump has enough to do right now with trying to get some people in his administration and to get a few entertainers to come to the
inauguration. >> my thanks to congressman steve cohen, joining me now, the former deputy campaign manager for carly fiorina. sara, what do you make of this sort of norm, the one president at a time norm, particularly, it strikes me, on matters of foreign policy when this kind of unified voice seems important. we do have one president at a time whfs wich is why the obama administration was able to abstain from the vote in the first place in a particularly shameful foreign policy misstep. what donald trump was doing is stating his opinion and he said very clearly in his tweet that the u.n. would change on january 20 when he took office. he's not confused about who's president. >> you don't think there's a limited condition. for instance, if donald trump tweeted "i intend to go to war with china on january 21, it will be a lot of fun" that would be okay with you? >> well, for a lot of reasons it wouldn't be okay, chris, as i think you know. >> good. so we found a limit l condition here. we'll walk this back until --
>> a limiting condition is announcing -- the limiting condition is announcing that we're going to war weeks and weeks in advance, that would be dumb. is but in this case, no, i don't think there's a limit on the president-elect expressing their opinion, same as he would in the campaign. >> how about working -- >> the difference, the one president at a time rule is not doing things on foreign policy or domestic policy that contradicts so foreign leaders don't know who to listen to. that's not what happened here. >> he has done that, right? he's broken the one-china policy with the call to taiwan which reversed decades of long-standing precedent. so that was an action he took. in this case this wasn't just an expression of something on facebook, this was the president of the united states essentially intervening, calling on a vote to happen a certain way in concert with foreigneaders and you have foreign leaders calling the sitting president a liar and saying they will produce evidence to the next president which does seem to be an
infringement on the one president at a time. >> well, i think we're all getting a little sick of the mean girl foreign policy where you say something nice to an ally's face and undermine them behind their back when they're turned. >> does the $38 billion count in mean girl foreign policy? the record-setting ten-year $3.8 million a year military aid packaged pushed through by the president of the united states for israel? >> this was political payback because he didn't -- president obama didn't like the netanyahu came at boehner's invitation to speak to congress and said he was against the iran deal. let's think about how cuba and iran have been treatedersus israel and england to a large extent and you'll see that when america is treating its allies that way, treating its enemies that way, you'll end up with a lot fewer allies and more enemy which is is why we've seen putin and assad and aothers walking al over this station where. >> that was quite a tour of the world. how did we end up in english and
russia. so you do think there is a limiting condition? if he announced war that would be bad. what do you think about -- it's funny, i was looking at the tape. barack obama had a very strange transition period because it was in the depth of the most severe and acute financial crisis in 70 years in which the current administration was taking extraordinary steps. there was all sorts of things they were doing that were way outside the sort of purview of what had been done before and that president-elect was qte careful not to step on the toes. was he wrong to do tt or should he have been more vocal at the time? >> during the campaign he was vocal which is part of the reason he won and good for him for winning but this idea that you can't express your opinions after you've been elected is si silly. i think the one-president rule is about not calling, for instance, our ambassador to the united nations and saying "this is president-elect trump, veto that measure" when president obama says abstain from that measure. that's a violation, for sure. >> i agree and i'm glad we agree
the president-elect should not call up members of the united states government. sarah isgur flores, have a great deal holiday. >> you, too. coming up, trump tweets about expanding america's nuclear arsenal, a reminder of how close the world has come to nuclear annihilation. we'll show you the man, one individual, a russian dude, who single-handedly prevented that 30 years ago. first, president obama suggested he could have defeated trump. obama's former speech writer joins me just ahead deliver over one point four million meals to those in need. get a new subaru, and we'll donate two hundred and fifty dollars more. ♪put a little love in your heart.♪
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president obama is perched at a very interesting place in terms of his legacy. his approval ratings are high as other two-term presidents as they approach the end of their terms and the economy is near full employment and yet the opposition to the president and the republican party has taken the whi house and bothouses of congress after eight years of steady dramatic gains across statehouses in the country. in an interview with david axelrod, president obama said the he still believed in his particular vision for america, one of inclusion and diversity and thinks he could have prevailed again. >> i am confident in in vision because i'm confident that if i had run again and articulated it i think i could have mobilized a majority of the american people to rally behind it.
>> president-elect donald trump, somewhat predictably, responded in a tweet "president obama said he thinks he would have won against me, he should say that but i say no way, jobs leaving, isis, ocare, et cetera." today president obama tweeted again "president obama campaigned hard in very important swing states the. voters wanted to make america great again." an entire generation of democratic party leadership, operatives, staffers are tied to obama's presidency and they are reckoning with just what happened. joining me now, one of those people, the former speech writer for president obama. i wanted to have you on because the interview with ax was interesting for a lot of reasons. how is obama world processing what happened? >> i think we're figuring this out like everybody else. i'm a little bit outside of the other bit in l.a. but i this i what the president said overall was pretty articulate. it was a variety of factors that hal
hillary ran a good race but a lot of factors played into what happened and we're reckoning with where we're at here which is we kind of -- we weren't focused enough adds a party, right? this is not an obama coalition, this is about democrats across the country, we rested our laurels on this idea of this demographic shift and that we were going to win the white house, we didn't win the white house, turns out, and it may be that we had it backwards which is it wasn't what obama didn't do down ballot, it's actually the incredible feat that obama achieved at the national level. >> that's an interesting way to spin it. >> you're welcome. >> so there's two ways to look at this. here's the effect to me. barack obama did something no democrat had done since fdr -- consecutive majorities of voters voting for him. it's amazing to think about that hadn't happened since fdr. an incredible political feat any way you look at it. i wrote in a peace for "the nation" that 100 years from now
kids will celebrate his birthday. >> that's a big leadoff. that means what's coming next is terrible. >> look at this graph. you have lost 900 state legislative seats, 27 state legislative chambers, 12 governorships, 62 house seats, 11 u.s. senate seats. that doesn't count whatever james comey and flukes happened in this particular election which says to me there was something happening before this election and do you think barack obama owns that? is he responsible for that? >> i think he's responsible for his part in it. i think that we -- look, no one knows -- if anyone tells you -- the last person i'm interested in is the person who says they have all the answers because democrats in the country are in the wilderness and we need to figure out why. i see people coming up with different reasons, this is the real reason. if anyone says that's the reason it's not true. let's say yes to all the reasons. you see this debate going on, is it too much a focus on diversity at the expense of the white working class motivated by
racism? maybe a little. is it because we haven't been too far to the left on economic policies? i'm open to that. there's a lot of reasons we're in this position. >> but my question is how much does that connect to this particular president's performance? his vision? the people around him? what i encounter when i encounter people from obama world and i know a lot of them, my wife worked in the white house. people were loyal, they're extremely proud of what they've accomplished and there's not a ton of -- and you see in the the president's interview with axelrod. there's not a lot of self-flagellation like where did we screw this up. not that there should be but that's the general posture. >> let's take time to figure out what's going on here. something is going on here, chris, and we have to figure it out. but i don't know, i think it's hard to monday morning quarterback the policies. i think there's a lot of people saying it's because barack obama didn't do x, y, or z on policy.
people are saying obamacare didn't understand how generous it was. people were saying we could have had a new deal. we did a massive stimulus that spent hundreds of billions of dollars on tax cuts, infrastructure and all kinds of things. we did this massive health care reform and it could have been more liberal and more generous b.u. we had a vice grip between this incredible pushback on the right and also this kind of timid middle of the democratic majority in the congress which, by the way, didn't come from barack obama it was an inheritance of the people elected in 2006 and before. you look at the things donald trump is saying. oh, we're going to spend so much money, it will be bananas, then you think back to these decisions made, i think of joe lieberman stripping out a public option on a whim before the bill is passed? >> or medicare buy-in which he voted on and walked back on. i thought about that because i was having a conversation with trump voters and one guy was telling me his experience with
obamacare which waa bad experience because he tried to retire early and get into the exchanges as a 61-year-old individual with health problems and i thought to myself, man, there was that moment where they could have happened. >> i will never forgive joe lieberman. he didn't just pull it back, he personally stripped it out of the bill at the last moment because, remember, we needed 100% of democrats on board because after an incredibly delicate dance for six months with grassley and the main republicans we needed every democrat. >> here's my question. one way of looking at it is political capital is a bank account you draw upon to make investments or purchases and barack obama had political capital and he sure as heck used it. there's a tremendous line of accomplishments, basically, do you think the trade was worth it at the end? >> yeah. i do. i do. >> i think the president thinks the same thing. the question is how do you -- >> let's keep in mind we are in this position because we're talking about roughly, what, 80,000 votes in three states. barack obama says i could have won. you know who else could have won?
hillary clinton could have won. >> of course. >> so i'm not ready to throw out the book. >> that's why it's important to distinguish between this particular presidential election result and the -- because there's something happening more broadly in the democratic party in the last eight years then you have this 80,000 votes across three state which is lord knows it could have been -- >> and i think what you should do is instead of thinking about it as national versus local think about it as presidential versus everything else. we had a strong coalition this close to winning. >> six and seven majorities. >> but you go to the congress a.m. election, we have a problem. >> john lovett, thank you. >> great to be here. upnext, we'll introduce you to the man who broke protocol more than 30 years ago to prevent russian and america from launching nuclear weapons and potentially annihilating the world.
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for the better part of the 20th century the world stood on precipice of nuclear annihilation and that was just a fact that everyone knew and lived with and had in the front of their minds. since the end of the cold war, i think there's a sense of that's in the past and we're fine now but the united states and very still have enough nuclear warheads to end life on this planet as we know it, which is important to remember. in fact, on sunday, september 25, 1983, we were one soviet colonel away from a full scale nuclear disaster. colonel stanislav petrov was working at a soviet military installation 16 miles south of moscow in the soviet satellite and computer system set off an
alarm indicating the united states launched a nuclear missile against moscow which would strike in less than half an hour. here's part of that story reported by dateline correspondent dennis murphy back in 2000. >> reporter: colonel petrov was a cog in the chain of command but his read of the situation was critical. he had all the incoming data. with the alarm blaring his men saying it's real, his computer saying it's real the colonel made a decision way beyond his pay grade -- beyond even his authority. he decided it had to be a false alarm because it simply didn't smell right to him. >> translator: this is not the way to start a war. already it was that a war starts with a massive launch so i made a decision that it was a false alarm. i picked up the phone and reported that to my commander. >> reporter: the more petrov thought about it, the more he convinced himself that he was
right. after all, he thought, why would the united states fire just one missile? the colonel was still confident as he advised the supreme command to stand down. but at the very moment he was on the phone, the flashing start screen went off again. the satellite was seeing more missiles -- a u.s. salvo, one, then another. >> translator: in a matter of two minutes a third, fourth, and fifth missile were reported launched. >> reporter: could this be it? the big one? the nightmare come true? what would he advise his commanders now? colonel petrov knew very well the soviet response might not be tit for tat, a city for a city. the russians could launch everything. the targets -- the american cities his satellites passed over. new york, washington, chicago, los angeles. >> reporter: philadelphia,
detroit. >> all of them were targets of what would have been the soviet response? >> translator: there is no question about it. the aftermath in the united states would have been horrible. >> even after the soviet computer system indicated those additional u.s. missile launches, colonel petrov stood his ground insisting the soviet system generated false information. his argument prevailed and this one soviet russian figure is one of the great heroes, literally, of mankind. up next, charlie pierce on america's current and future state of nuclear rationality. ♪
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1945 and called for "a world without nuclear weapons." president-elect donald trump by contrast argued in a tweet last week that "the united states must greatly strengthen and expand its nuclear capabilities until such time as the world comes to its senses regarding nukes." trump later telling msnbc "let it be an arms race, we will outmatch them and every pass and outlast them all." we don't know who "them" is. trump's comments about nuclear weapons have experts worried he could literally inadvertently trigger a catastrophe. "imagine we here in a crisis, if he recklessly tweets, people could read these things in the worst possible light" jeffrey lewis told the "washington post." adding "the north koreans have a plan to use nuclear weapons early in a conflict, they're not going to wait around." joining me now, charlie pierce, writer at large for "esquire." can charlie, i have not thought as much about nuclear weapons in a longim as i have been thinking about them in the last few weeks. >> i am older than you are so i
was nine years old and in grammar school during the cuban missile crisis which was my first general awareness of what nuclear weapons are and what they can do and at this point nuclear weapons are the genie that doesn't fit into the bottle anymore. we have, what, i think the total is 7,100 individual nuclear warheads. i don't want to know the destructive capabilities there and we're about to hand the launch orders to a guy who can't stay away from his phone for 15 minutes. you have india and pakistan have them, that's probably the most dangerous part of the world right now so i think we'll all need a refresher course in what nuclear weapons are about. >> when i was rewatching that amazing "dateline" bit, it was an incredible story. one of the things that comes through with the colonel is he's basically making this calculation about rational
action. there had been an airline the russians down sod there had been some international crisis but largely he's thinking this doesn't make sense. there's no reason the u.s. is starting a war right now and it made me think how important a general assumption of predictability and rationality is in the kind of theoretical decisions made around nuclear weapons. >> and i think if you go back and liste to the -- the tapes are available now. if you go back and lisn to the tapes of the deliberations within the kennedy administration during the cuban missile crisis you can hear president john kennedy making that same calculation in his head. why would he do this? let's figure out why he did this so we can figure a way to let him get out of what he's done. of course colonel petrov had to do this with an alarm blaring in his ear and most of his superiors breathing down his neck and with 15 seconds to make the call. >> we also have a situation in which it is now the tweeted and then reported to mika brzezinski
stated policy of the incoming president that we should have more nuclear weapons, we should have a "nuclear arms race." and it's a reminder to me of the sort of false sense of security people achieved arod nuclear weapons at the end of the cold war because people felt like they'd been headachen off hair-trigger alert and i imagine it will be much more front-of-mind political issue in the years to come. >> if you remember in the 1980s, there was another spate of nuclear terror both on the ground with the nuclear freeze movement and in popular culture with "the day after" and "war games." it was this burst of nuclear armageddon movies the way there were in the '60s with "dr. strange love" and "fail safe" and "on the beach." that was because people didn't trust ronald reagan with the button, or ronald reagan was joking about bombing russia in five minutes or whatever it was. >> right. >> and it turned out at
reykjavik, ronald reagan almost gave away the store. he almost said fine, we'll get rid of all of them, to mikhail gorbachev. so wherever you have an you can likely president -- and god knows we have the unlikeliest president we've ever had coming into office on january 20 -- people's minds get concentrated wonderfully over the fact that we have 7,100 nuclear weapons all of which are as near as we can tell functional. >> and the point you make about reagan is important because the turning point in reduction of american stockpiles does start with reagan and has been essentially a bipartisan continuous drawdown and negotiated bilateral trajectory for american foreign policy across many different presidents from many different parties. >> you had a partner at least up until this point up until russia the other major nuclear power
with a willingness to cooperate on it. now i don't know what will happen but he seems to -- as is the case with our president-elect seems to identify his national manhood with the number of warheads he has. boy there's freudian levels of that i don't want to get into. as you said at the top, this is back on the front burner again. i've lived long enough to have it being on the front burner a couple of times and it concentrates your mind wonderfully if things spiral badly out of control. >> we should mention this president and current russian president did night salt two. it was the putin apparatus. charlie pierce, writer at large for "esquire," happy holidays and happy birthday. >> thank you, sir! coming up, trump claims credit for president obama's economy, we'll look at what the president-elect is inheriting just ahead.
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carrie fisher, who plays the princess, nobody recognizes you? >> just one guy who's seen it 12 times. and he -- >> what was his reaction? he asked you out? >> "t princess!" i first told him that i was the prize, and he said he'd seen it 12 times and a free date with the princess and a bucket of popcorn and he believed me. >> remembering carrie fisher and the many other icons we lost in 2016 after the break.
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back in january, 2009, the month of barack obama's first inauguration, the country lost nearly 800,000 jobs. this time around, things are different, to say the least. mr. it co-'s chief economic correspondent wrote "president-elect trump inherits a economy growing at 3.2%, record high stock and home prices 4,.9% unemployment and
rising wages." the unemployment rate has continued to fall. yesterday donald trump, not for the first time in his life, claimed his inheritance as his own success story. "the world was bloomy before i won, there was no hope. now the market is up nearly 10% and christmas spending is up nearly a trillion dollars." it was a big retail season. the national retail federation says holiday spending is on track to reach a combined $656 billion, i suppose you could round that up to ove a trillion dollar bus claiming credit is a stretch. one study said total 2016 holiday sales are expected to exceed $1 trillion but that was before september, which was six weeks before the election. ben jealous, senior fellow at the center of american progress, tara dow dell, eric boehlert, senior fellow at media matters. it's amazing to contrast the economy, the baton he got and the one he's handing off. but there's a real question about how much it matters.
like -- guz it matter what is happening on the ground macroeconomicly or is it refr t refracted through people's partisan perceptions but? there's a piece out of elkhart, indiana, where the place is doing much better but people are like "yeah, we're doing better but not because of barack obama." and they said that she sees the biggest signs are hope in the economy in the carrier deal, he's not even president and he's helping the economy. do you think what happens on the ground matter? >> i think what happens on the ground matters. the real test for trump is whether he'll live up to the standards he set for himself. he said he would only have two tests, will this create more jobs here and will it create better wages here? all signs show this is a guy bringing in people who don't think we should have a minimum wage. he said he thinks wages are too high so he's contradicted himself but there are working people who voted for him believing he will create more
and better jobs and it will be up to him to do just that >> but catherine rampell had this piece about what happens -- economies are cyclical, we haven't had a recession in a long time because the last one was so deep and took so long to come out of but presumably there will be a recession and then you wonder how the switch gets flipped. >> i don't wonder, i know exactly what donald trump is going to do. he's going blame president obama, he's going to take credit for the economy that president obama presided over, the record success that's occurred in the auto bailout, all these things that have led to this economy improving he'll take credit for. where the problem is for democrats, they need to fight back. they can't let his messages and at he says go out and not push back against them. i'm saying trump supporters, yes, they will believe whatever trump says most of them. >> but part of the problem there strikes me -- or has been the problem so far is the fact that this economy at a macro level looks better than it was and you zoom in and there's huge pockets
of the country not doing very well and description distributional problems and you end up a position that the democrats got caught in a bit this year being like -- telling people it's okay. >> a quick point. look at the economy bill clinton gave george w. bush. look at the economy barack obama is giving -- >> twice in a row. >> democrats are very good at handing off robust economies and we cross our fingers, the last one was driven into the ditch. so i think trump is going -- you get the sense he's been surrounded by sycophants for 30, 40 years. every trump organization that worked was hi, right? he takes credit for every bad idea he blames someone else so as you said of course he'll blame obama. and the -- taking credit now he's buying into this fake news idea, right? he'll create his own reality. every tweet has like two or three lies per sentence. there are only 140 characters in his tweets about the economy. >> but a lie left -- >> that's right.
it's up to democrats and the press. >> i get your point, though, i get your point. >> this is -- it becomes this question about the propaganda battle. it's perceptions but and reality. my gut instinct about politics is that gravity exists and the gravity is are people's lives getting better or worse and i don't know if that's true so if they take away health insurance from 20 million people, does gravity reassert itself or do you have to win the messaging war? >> there is no doubt he has the best propagandists on the right working for him. that's why bannon is there. at the same time at some point it matters what happens to real people and the problem mainstream democrats have right now, we've done a good job of fixing this economy. what they don't know how to do yet is to explain to people how they're going to fix the troubles that are coming. >> or the trouble people feel right now. >> but all this mention over trade is driven by tension over what's happening with people's
jobs being replaced by technology. the only question in the silicon valley is whether 20% or 40% of jobs disappear in the next 10 or 20 years and the party takes money from the valley and doesn't have the fortitude to challenge folks and say let's have a real conversation about the future of work in this country. >> a if this is what american politics loolike at 4.6% unemployment and 3.2% growth, what does american politics look like -- >> at 10%. >> right, 10% -- >> at 20% you have a civil war in this country. i've always said that. >> please, let's hope not. >> i know people probably think it's a cynical statement to make but i think this country does not do well, we have a history of not doing well people feel their backs are against the wall. >> there's a different possibility which is that people start to come together around their situation and that's what we were focused on in bernie's campaign.
>> that takes leadership. and if the leader wants to divide using those very issues to divide and there's no pushback from other people then you have problems. >> we're ultimately going to have to choose whether we want an inclusive left wing populist movement or fascist right wing populist movement. that will be the choice. >> that's stark 1930s. >> if the republicans -- the senate, if white house, the supreme court, who's left to bla blame. >> you can't blame people gone for two or three years if unemployment spikes. >> there are such deep structural issues where people feel like their lives are tough there's there's a serial of discontent against whoever is in power but they own it now in the republican party. lots more to talk about. don't go anywhere.
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>> he hears out of his ass now. >> the great carrie fisher once said "if my life wasn't funny it would be true and that's unacceptable." the actor, author and screenwriter, best known as princess leia in the "star wars" movie died this morning. she was 60 years old. she was not the only huge star to pass away this week. on christmas day singer george michael ed in his home in england at the age 5063. his manager told the hollywood reporter he died of heart failure. 2016 has undoubtedly been a brutal year for artist wes lost as well as the most towering figures in history. just in music, just in music, first of all, carrie fisher was an incredible person and incredibly talented writer, if you haven't seen postcards from the edge. also lived a crazy life, "l.a. times" 1956 headline of like when she was conceived she was on the front page. [ laughter ] like literally like they're
expecting. bowie -- just these folks, bowie, prince, leonard cohen in one year. >> and george michael. >> and george michael. then fife dog of people of my generation growing up in new york city, a tribe called quest. it really was like -- obviously every year you lose people but this year felt like -- particularly music. >> it's going to happen as this generation ages, bowie, george michael, prince, all died young but the iconic -- the amount of iconic music. 35 top ten singles between those three right there. 300 million records worldwide. burglar l particularly in the 80s. they defined pop music in the 80s, for a conservative cultural decades, they made a stamp, expanded and rewrote the idea of masculinity in pop culture. >> that's a great point. >> george michael, david bowie and prince were doing it on mtv and top 40 radio and opening a
lot of eyes that were closed in the '80s. >> also this year one of the most important kind of cultural figures in the history of american sports and politics, muhammad ali who -- it's so funny because when you come to figures at different points in your own life. so i wasn't around for the big iconic ali fights. i knew ali a as this almost santa claus figure. he has the parkinson's and he was beloved by everyone and when he died this year had a lot of occasion to go back and read so much and watch original footage of how insanely polarizing he was. >> look, i remember -- and liberating. for us as black men, they was assurance we could be men amongst men and the encouragement to go ahead and take the risk to do that. this is somebody who resisted the vietnam war and gave up probably the most lucrative years of his life and, frankly, we could only see him as santa
claus because parkinson's had taken his mouth from him. the one time we met you could see the sharpness in his eyes. what i want to hear is the tape running through his mind all those years, all the things he wanted to say and couldn't >> because there's no cognitive impairment with parkinson's, it's all motor faculties. >> yes and he was probably the most searing critic of this country's failings of his day. >> and probably the most popular one ever. i don't think there was a figure more popular and radical at the same time than muhammad ali ever in the country's history. the guy's politics were way out there compared to the majority of americans in "the mainstream and he was also -- >> in this country wherever you go, north, south, east, west, midwest, if you know that guy can kick your ass, you can't respect someone from like a whole range of men who may not agree with your politics. >> one of the most consequential deaths is antonin scalia on the
supreme court. i couldn't believe that was this year, too. because the year was so insane. that was a huge loss for the conservative legal movement. obviously one of the most i would say admired conservative legal jurists of his time and probably in a long time but also in the very consequential political vacancy left open. >> exactly. i mean, the context within which he passed. i mean at a time, in the middle of this presidential election and so i think the notion that his passing didn' play a role in this election i think is something -- >> it clearly became a huge zbloel but i feel like there's not been enough commentary around the impact his passing played in this election. i would argue that it mobilized the right more than the left with the exception of maybe the choice movement on the left but beyond that there was not this mobilization you saw on the right. >> i totally agree and i talked to voter after voter who were trump skeptical republicans, who
ultimately the reason they fell in line was that -- >> for conservative catholics it was huge in states like pennsylvania. >> ben jealous, tara dowdell, eric boehlert, thank you very for 20 years he spent the holiday at his golf club in florida, although it's a little different for the residents of palm beach. >> along with trump's visits will come the road closures and tightened security each time the president-elect lands. there will be some delays in the sky and on the ground around his mar-a-lago estate.