tv Lockup Raw MSNBC December 31, 2016 5:00pm-6:01pm PST
know if it's over our unfolding. the emergency/medical part we can see with the number of ambulances and trauma centers that will be, you know, up all over the city there, and doctors and paramedics and firefighters, you know, all the investigative arms. what we are not seeing is the worldwide intelligence spinup. i guarantee from networks across the world and, you know -- phones are being listened to, web sites are being watched, and everybody's you know, on their game to see if there's any more to this. even if it's not a direct contact, can it spin off to a motive of another inspired actor in another city or country somewhere. it's in everybody's face now. so it heightens the alert, and to be smart and be alert. >> jim, stand by.
we're at the top of the hour. it is 8:00 p.m. eastern time, 5:00 p.m. pacific. it is 4:00 a.m. in istanbul. if you're just joining us, breaking news to us. what it appears to be according to government officials there in istanbul in turkey, saying that there has been a terror attack at a nightclub. we believe tore the reina nightclub, leaving at least 35 people dead, at least 40 wounded at the time -- at this time we do not know who is responsible for this. we do not know the exact timing, necessarily, but we believe it's right after midnight local time. that would then say this is about two to three hours into this crisis there in istanbul. this a metropolitan -- vibrant metropolitan and diverse area of some 14 million people in the area. it is certainly not a
metropolitan center nor country unused torsi, unfortunately, su an incident. matt bradley has been following the story for us. over to you, matt. >> richard, we don't have much to add, but i can direct viewers to look at the scenes in front of them. this is the worst nightmare of what we've been seeing in europe the past several years. in the run-up to this, and istanbul of course is part of europe police and authorities were so worried about an attack coming at this time. we don't know who did it. there's been no claim of responsibility, but islamic state had been urging its followers to launch attacks against soft targets exactly like this one. they even released a video a couple weeks ago describing how to use the holidays as a means to launch attacks especially
with large areas, or major outdoor on. here in london there were thousands more added to the ranks of the police force that would normally be present like a night, that tends to get rowdy. what we are seeing now is exactly the target and exactly the moment when so many authorities and so many intelligence agencieses and malcolm and ayman were talking about earlier, that an attack would come just now. turkey sits in the center of all these different political groups and geopolitical cross-currents. that makes it very complicated to assign blame, especially with so many different groups that are in an almost open state of war with the turkish government right now. this comes at a time again when islamic state had been upping its targeting and encouraging these so-called lone wolf attacks to target they places. if you remember, a man drove a
truck in berlin into a crowded christmas market and killed 12 people and injured nearly 50. that man was found later. he had travelled into france, a tunisian national, and then into italy, where he was later gunned down. so a lot of people in europe have been seeing the open-border system. the way in which not only immigrants are allowed in, but the way people targets, suspects, even perpetrators can cross borders for great distances, elude police, and never really have to show an i.d. cart. istanbul is not part of that, it's seen very much as the gateway into europe, so a lot of people will be looking at this incident, as they have been for the last several years, as evidence and more testimony as to why these borders should be closed. this is especially red meat to the followers of some of these burgeoning right-wing populist movements, and a lot of those
movementssh coming up on elections just in the next year. this attack, very likely to number among the many that will be mentioned as they movements believe they should be elected and protecting greater europe from what they consider to be a wave of immigrants coming in from the middle east and bringing attacks like this one. >> matt, stand by. nbc's ayman movement ojedin, you were telling us earlier, ear on familiar with what we believe to be the location of this quote/unquote terror attack. that is what the governor from istanbul is calling this. you've been touching bases with your sources. what are you hearing? >> interestingly in the last couple minutes, and i've been tracking turkish media, some color coming out in terms of
this attack. more interesting developments that have come on the in the last hour or so is the owner of this nightically now being quoted by one of the leading newspapers there. he spoke to a reporter on the scene, he was quoted by hariya newspaper, which many would know as a respect act news organizati organization. he was telling reporters that in the past ten days he was informed by a u.s. embassy official and intelligence officials in turkey that a terrorist attack or an attack made that place, the reina nightclub a vulnerable target, so on security had been beefed up, based on intelligence hi was given from multiple sources, including -- >> nbc's aymiyman mojedin is one
phone, and when we can reconnect, we'll get straight back to him. when he was giving us the update of the awareness that potential the nightclub, the one in question today, the one where we believe this terror attack happened, was concerned. there was some information, some intelligence that told them, yes, there could be an increased level of concern of security there, that then they upped or changed their security profile, hand in the end, this hour at 4:08 a.m., we're talking about intelligence that unfortunately may have come to pass. this area, which we'll get to that map we were showing just to you a second ago, because there's been a whole run the recent attacks, if you will,
just in the past year, and i do want to drill down on that with you, malcolm but let's go to today, and you were hearing what ayman was telling this about some reports, some information, intelligence coming from the west and other sources that indicated to them, watch out for this location is it possible to stop this? even with the intelligence they had, it still happened. >> that's a fascinating piece of information, because it's very specific targeted focused intelligence. that leads me to believe that's quite possible if the owner had ahead this, it was information on the street, as opposed to
them getting a formal warning from law enforcement. if that's the case, law enforcement would have put more security out, more perimeter, more private security hired o that leads me to believe whatever was going to go on here, the word got out within the criminal underground or whoever supplied these weapons, and there is, you know, as we heard earlier, there's multiple potential attackers here. you have the islamic state terrorisms, you ha terrorists, the kurdish separatists, the pkk, who is more unlikely. i'm just dying to hear what he has to say about that. that tells you it was at the street level. as far as u.s. state department and u.s. government officials, they always warn in a run-up to a major holiday about going to large soft, you know, venues, where there's the potential of a
large-scale attack, and things like that. so from that perspective that's run of the mill we all know the most knowledgeable person in the intelligence community is the law enforcement, the cop on the street of the immediate area in your neighborhood. >> right. malcolm stand by for a second. i do want to update our viewers and you as well, jim, ayman and matt, the information we're getting from the governor of istanbul, you've seen some of the pictures of him coming to the microphone potentially. again. 35 dead, 34 of those we're hearing, according to the governor of istanbul, 34 are
civilians, and one an officer. we are getting information that ten are in critical condition. back to you, malcolm nance, and you were talking about the warnings and the beat cop on the street, they know what's happening. tell me your idea that you were trying to express a second ago, and i want to expand on the warnings. go ahead. >> yeah, so if the local order got wind of this, that's the local underground talking. we have 35 people dead. they had a cop, and jim
cavanaugh said that earlier. that's over 90 people in total. two guns ak-47s, 30-round magazines, etch. they managed to get out of 60 shots, reload and at least 30 more, if not more in that venue, which is -- it's not a significant amount, but for terrorists coming in, that's the shock value that they said. they come in and just blast the place. and of course it remains to be seen whether they'll still on venue or killed by local law enforcement. >> good points made, and to both you and jim on this, the bat aclan, when we were there early on on the ground, the details coming in to ugh was that it was tough because of the music
itse itself. you remember that, and we're talking about a nightclub here. again potentially the music being very loud, people don't know what's happening, despite the noise of these semiautomatic, the automatic weapons that may or may not have been used in this situation, it adds to the pandemonium, therefore the information coming into law enforcement and they are feverishly going through this venue that we believe to be the reina nightclub, it's unknowing, and because it was brought up before, the bataclan theater, that was multiple location, and of course here they are ready for the worse, but hoping that does not happen. we know it's only one location at the moment e according to our
msnbc producer, he spoke to security at the nightclub, and they are telling them that the attacker is still in the nightclub. that is what we are hearing from our nbc producer, according to security there at the nightclub. they believe the attacker -- we're also learning it's only one, one person that we are getting information on at this moment. one attacker believed to be still in that nightclub, and that special forces are sealing off -- this is why we're seeing a lot of these pictures here from domestic tv. they're sealing off a two-mile radius around the nightclub itself. so more information here that we're getting in at 4:15 a.m. it could be about three hours after the incident.
jim cavanaugh, we have some new information. we're hearing from our producer on the ground here, jim, that the security there at the nightclub are saying yes, one attacker, and that that attacker is still in the nightclub. >> yeah, that's not good news, obviously, if he's alive and armed, he can kill more people. like we talked earlier, they're pressing the point of contact. this discussion is important. where does the information come from originally? that's how we back it up, and should have been done before this attack. when that information comes up, where did it come from? did it come from street talk to the bar owner? that means there's a lot of people talking about that in the
neighborhood, as opposed to a directed attack from a terrorist group that's trying to keep operations private, or sole actors. they usually don't tell the neighborhood. so why is this information out there? where did it come from? if security is beefed up, as our correspondent talked about from europe ah, does that mean? a uniformed policeman at the doorway is not adequate. you can see this by the carnage. ist just not adequate. if you believe security at a nightclub, one officer, one at the back door, they're going to shoot them first. so we -- we have yet to find out what the security was.
>> jim, as you remember the conversations a year ago at bat aclan. in such sit do they have a big red button? have they developed something in cases like this? that unfortunately happened in paris, where it was -- it was hard to determine the difference between noise potential from the music or the ambient audio that was there in that theater, versus what is gunfire? do they have, you know, some sort of alarm system or protocol that's been developed at all or discussed in potential we have the same difficulty in this reina nightclub. >> right. police in gen and tactical
officers specifically practice and realize what they're dealing with. myself and many others, i've gone into dark bars with the record of multiple people shot, you don't know where the shooter is, there's music playing, low lighting. if you take that again, saying, an attack like we saw in belggim at the airport. you have a terminal that's light, high, you can see what's going on, of course unless they plant bombs. for a shooter you can see. in a nightclub the environment is distracting, the visibility is poor, it's loud, but every one of these, richard, that you report on that we watch, tactical officers hot-wash these things. like pulse, they go back and say what are we going to do different? and work on the protocol. >> active shooter protocols in such situations, important to
discuss, but as you're saying, jim, with such force that they may have, how do you prepare? and what is the best way? jim cavanaugh, stand by, malcolm nance, matt bradley, ayman m din, we're going to continue to watched what is been described as a trost attack, leaves at least 35 debt and 40 wounded in a nightclub right after midnight in a january 1, 2017 time frame, just hours ago. we'll have more updates. plus we're always getting understanding for what are to be new year's celebrations in the united states and how government and law enforcement officials are reacting to what they're seeing in istanbul. that right after this.
here at msnbc headquarters in new york city. in turkey, what's being described by government officials in istanbul as a terror attack. 35 dead, at least 40 wounded in a nightclub attack. we believe the time stamp on that was within the last 3 1/2, 4 hours, and as we sit on the situation right now, the reporting that we had last on the ground there in istanbul from our nbc producer from security at the nightclub, reina nightclub where this shooting inns didn't happened is that the suspected shooter attacker is still inside the venue, and they have locked down a two-mile radius around the nightclub. that's the latest we are hearing. it is, of course, very early in this incident. they're being very careful locally, domestically as to the
amount of access they are given. they do not know all the information, and they have a shooter, according to what we are hearing from our producer on the ground that's still in the venue. much precaution happening there. as far as how that is reverberating here in the united states, because that incident happened right after january 1, 2017, the new year's eve celebration around 1,000 reve r revele revelers, if you will, inside this nightclub and this is dent happening right after the new year, what that might mean as the global intelligence community is working so closely together, especially when we talk about a metropolitan area with 14 million people, there are certainly echos to places like new york city, los angeles, california, and throughout the united states as well as europe. what we are hearing right now
here in new york city, where the ball will drop in times square in about 3 1/2 hours is, according to our jonathan dienst, new york officials are saying they're monitoring the events in turkey. they are re-deploying some counter-terror teams and patrol units at night clubs across new york, of course as well as visible sign of security that they want to put out this as a precaution. the officials also telling jonathan dienst, there is no new specific credibility threat to new york city or new york at this time, but they are re-deploying some counter-terror teams and patrol units to night clubs across new york and to add visible signs of security, this as a precaution i want to get to
aym aym aym aym aym ayman mohyeldin, we lost a connection, and then if you can pick it up from there, please do. >> what i've been able to learn from turkish sources in istanbul is they are quoting the owner of the nightclub that he had been given intelligence, some of it including from western sources, including the united states that a possible terrorist attack could happen on new year's eve, because it was popular among
nightclub-goers, a very large destination, in the sense it's a large venue. so that was information coming out from one of the more prominent newspapers in istanbul, but interestingly enough, some of the accounts are quite short rick. we have on the right-hand upper part of the screen, the venue itself. so part of the nightclub actually overlooks the water, and according to eyewitnesses there, some of those people that were trapped inside as this gunfight began, actually jumped into the water to kind of escape the approach of the gunman as they were making their way into that. there is obviously some footage that's not starting to circulate online. this is a very well video graphed venue. it was a popular tourist venue, and they would have security cameras, surrailance, some of
that footage is starting to make its way online. a lot of people are starting to rehash some of that, circulate that, including newspapers and respected jurnltists in istanbul. it shows the moment of the gunmen entering the venue, entering through the security. there was what happens to be limited security istanbul over the last several weeks have been on a heightened state of alert. you had the incident in ankara where the ambassador was killed, but inside istanbul itself, i'm told there was heightened security, i'm told about 17,000 police officers were on duty following a series of terror attacks in the city in recent months. so the city, you're going into the new year's eve festivities, knowing that venues like this and other attract shuns with president tourists, could be
potential targets. it will be interesting to see what kind of security posture the nightclub had actually taken, given the fact, as we are now reporting, the nightclub owner was aware of a possible security threat. we're getting some of this reporting, from turkish reporters there on the ground, including our own producer, who's been speaking to security there. we're told at least the gunmen were heard speaking in arabic. that may give us some indication a bit about the identity of the attackers. important again to emphasize it's hard for us to independently verify this, but a lot of this information is starting to come out, being reported by turkish media there. richard? >> ayman, you've been in this location that we've been reporting on, where this terror attack has happened. loose the ingress and egress.
i'm thinking the bat aclan, where there weren't a lot of places to escape. individuals going through and looking -- during the time of the incident. what is it like in terms of getting in and out of the reina nightclub? >> it's certainly not easy to get out of it. again, you know, the aerial map there, the aerial image gives us a bit of an indication. at the bottom of the screen it's entirely water, but you had other restaurants and lounges that make it difficult to walk from one to the other. there was essentially a wall or fence that separates some of these facilities from each other. all of them have the main entrances on the main street that you see in the middle of your screen.
there were checkpoints,er remember at least a metal detector and entrance, but once you're in there, it's a large compound, large venue, and it includes both the lounges part of it that overlooks the bosphorus, but there was a huge double-stoegt nightclub venue. certainly on a night like this, probably probably crowded. having been there before, it's one that could eatsily accommodate over 1,000 people, as far as the patrons, staff and what have you, but the entry and exit points are probably -- i would say there's definitely some choke areas where, when you have 1,000 people going in and
they're being screened as they make their way in, once they're inside, getting out is probably almost just as challenging, because you won't be able to go from the side entrances or jumping into the water, as we're now hearing from some of the eyewitness accounts. so i suspect that one of the security primts that's been set up outside also made it different for some of the people to ultimately make their way out. >> ayman, stand by. i want to get straight to times square for a second, but you're giving us good context. i want to get to times square, and he's going to give us some context now here in new york city, of course all of us know how the global intelligence infrastructure is, tell us what are you hearing in materials of the -- how they're watching what's happening there in is dan bile right now. >> richard, i think everyone is
taking their jobs seriously. of course local officials are watch i watching. >> reporter: we have more than 2,000 officers here in times square, additional, that brings the total in times square alone to about 7,000 officers. they're in the crowds, they're on the rooftops, there's also some officers with some canines, they're doing sweeps every so often. we've seen that in hotel rooms, garages, theaters, they're trying to make sure that people feel safe. police want to be clear there has not been a specific threat to times square, but regardless, considering what's happened in istanbul, they are on high alert. new this year as you guys mentioned, they have 65 dump trucks lining the streets with
15 tons of sand, all in an effort to try to prevent a possibility attack similar to the ones we have seen recently in france and in germany. like all the efforts put on to make sure that people are staying safe, they without in a lot into making sure people feel safe. everyone is looking forward to 2017, and to the dropping of this ball that is behind me. it has more than 10 million l.e.d. lights, more than 2600 waterford crystals, so people are looking forward to see that coming down at the stroke of midnight. for now security is key, top of mind, but people here say they do feel safe and worth the what its to experience all of this. >> sarah rosario, thank you. this on the heels of a conversation that jonathan dienst from w nbc, saying he had heard from the new york police
department and think saying they're monitoring events in turkey, re-deploying units to night clubs across new york city. this as well to have visibility signs of security, as a precaution, but they're also telling jonathan dienst, there's no new credibility threat to new york at this time. you got a sense from sarah rosario, as they continue to move forward under a very large security umbrella. of course, we will be touching base on what is happening in new york city where the ball will drop, and we also have a statement from president obama i'll share with you shortly. i want to get to our chief foreign correspondent, richard engel, overseas as he normally is, and is very familiar with inns tan bile. he's watching what is happening after this terror attack that's happened there. richard, what do you know? >> reporter: this took place at a nightclub called reina.
reina with you attacker, who came in senately dressed. there were hundreds of people there at the time. >> reporter: he went in and started praying gunfire. there are reports of people jumping out of the club into the water in order to eye scape. there were also women trapped in the women's rest room, panished who made a 911 called, saying they were trapped, hearing gunshots.cked who made a 911 called, saying they were trapped, hearing
gunshots. there were reports of them shouting inacious bick. s.w.a.t. teams have closed off the area in a several-mile radius, and the suspicion is it's an isis attack or isis supporter who carried it out. unfortunately istanbul has seen its fair share of these kind of attacks and there's quite a few that have -- so you were talking about the united states possible threat. it's very different, unfortunately in is tan butte. right now istanbul has become not a base for isis, but a base where isis has been ability to transit through. that's become even more pronounced as the fighting goes on just across the border into syria. >> richard, can you give a sense of what that mood is, that cadence that you were just intimating there? we had the russian ambassador not too long ago shot dead by an
off-duty turkish policeman. twin bombing attacks, august 20th a bomb attack on a wedding party. at least 30 people dead in that situation. in july, july 30th we had 35 kurdish fighters who tried to storm a military base killed by the turkish army there in the area. what is that sense of -- you were saying it's very different with good reason. what is this reason, if different at all based on your experience say about where this attack sits? what is that background? >> reporter: this attack will have a chilling effect on the constituent. it is an attack on the elite. it is an attack on the party culture of istanbul. istanbul has a very -- it's a muslim country, but it has a
vibrant night life. reina has international djs who come across turkey and europe as well to come there to dance so drinkage now you have an attack on the elite, a place where there were paparazzi outside. the turkitious soccer players, basketball players go there. in the summer it would be worse. it's one of the places to go in turkey, you can see the music and lasers projected into the sky from miles around. it's very well known. each attack is different. in the past when you have an attack on a russian ambassador, that doesn't have a chilling effect so much on the population. that's seen as political, or
when there's a kurdish attack against government or against soldiers, again that has a sense of a military operation. 24s the tack on the people, on the city, on a segment of people who may have felt -- not immune, but certainly feel in the crosshairs right now. >> richard, what you were reporting from sources potentially here was isis-unfused. can you give us more detail on that? >> reporter: well, there's this tendency -- and there's a tendency among american security experts particularly saying this was isis directed or isis inspired, or this was an isis guided attack. i'm not sure that in turkey or anywhere frankly those
distinctions make that much difference anymore. the impression was this was someone acting in order to carry out an attack for isis. whether he got his directions from inside syria or did it on his own or was a syrian refugee living there, that's all too early to know. we just heard it was somebody said something in arabic, gunmen, automatic weapon, and the security officials are suspected this is an an isis attack, blue those kind of details about who the attacker was and where he got his training and he got his orders, that's -- we don't know that at this stage, or i don't know that, and probably won't for some time. >> it can mean so many different things. >> reporter: again, i think it's a bit of an artificial distinction. if somebody was acting for isis, sent by isis, i think the end
rules is probably the same. >> understood. understood. richard engel, thank you for calling in. our chief correspondent overseas right now watching what's happening in istanbul a country he knows well. thank for you that. >> sure. we are going to take a short break. when we come back, we now have an official statement coming from the white house. we also have information about president obama and his briefing on what is happening there in istanbul. we'll have that for you right after this.
these numbers in such horrific situations often do change. also, because of the significance of the secured concerns in large cities around the world that this would therefore cause potential those concerned in the united states, in about 3 hours, 15 minutes, it's 4:47 a.m. in istanbul right now. what we are hearing is president obama has been briefed on istanbul on the nightclub attacks we are hearing that the principal press secretary eric shultz putting out a statement, in that statement saying, this, quote, this afternoon the president was briefed by his national security team on the attack. the president expressed condolences for the innocent
lives lost, directed his team to offer proposed assistance to the turkish authorities as necessary, and to keep him updated as warranted, end quote. again, that statement coming from the principal deputy press secretary eric schultz, and president obama was briefed on what is happening there in turkey. also this statement coming from ned price ned price, the spokesperson for the national security council saying the united states condemns in the strongest terms the horrific triismt attack at a nightclub in istanbul, which has left dozens dead, many more wounded, that such an atrocity could be perpetrated upon innocent revelers, many of whom were celebrated new year's eve underscores the savagery of the attackers. we offer our prayers and
reaffirm the support of the united states for turkey, our nato ally and shared determination to confront and defeat all forms of terrorism. that official statement there from ned price, the spokes american for the national security council. again i was mentioning earlier this statement coming also from the white house from eric schultz. hans nichols, nbc correspondent at the white house, joins us now. we have now heard that the president has been briefed on this here, hans. i just read that statement coming from eric schultz as well as from ned price, what else are you hearing? >> it's important to know that the president has worked hard on his relationship with erdogan, and will offer any support they can. it's also important to know that the relationship right now is not complicated and then two,
professor guillen, the cleric living in pennsylvania, i was just in turkey a few months ago with ash carter. he spent a lot of times with his counterparts in a military to military basis. the relationship is very strong. a bit weaker after the coup, because the ranks were thin, but the relationships are strong. you can expect a lot of bilateral conversations. >> thank you for that per
special tiff. also reporting on a lengthy conversation there in turkey with erdogan on 60 minutes, a very, very complex relationship that the united states has with turkey, as was so well footnoted by yourself in that statement. thank you so much, hans. i know you'll continue to watch the response coming out of the white house. i also want to read something, as we bring back not only jim cavanaugh as well as malcon nance, there was a standing travel warning for turkey that was issued in october by the state department. the u.s. stapt department continues to warn, that there are anythinged threats from a terror groups. and carefully consider the
rest -- that in part there on the travel warning from the u.s. state department of u.s. citizens in the area of turkey they say think came to that decision of certainly family members as those again just some of the statements made in the travel warning coming from the state department issues in urging u.s. citizen to contact their family. this coming from the u.s. embassy, an emergency message. it reads in part here -- the reports of gunfire from reina nightclub in istanbul. u.s. citizens should avoid the area. they strongly -- we trongly urge, it reads that u.s.
citizens in turkey to directly contact concerned family members in the united states to advise them of your safety. so, again, that just coming out from the u.s. embassy to those u.s. citizens that are -- that are in the area. jim cavanaugh, that's just some of the information you're getting, the u.s. responding to what's happening in istanbul, the information we are watching here. 4:52 a.m., that two-mile corden that is in place and the latest information confirmed there's the water body right off the nightclub in istanbul. what are you watching and learn
right now, jim? >> well, you've had a agreed discussion here, and talking about what's going on. you only want the shooter to talk to police and you don't want him directed. i agree with richard engel's assessment, sometimes we talk too much indict baseball, and malcolm will say this as well, whether it's inspired or directed, it doesn't mean much to the people killed. an inspired actor can kill more than a directed actor, so it's a
point well taken, and we understand it. from the standpoint, though, if you can interrupt the sect attack, that's where the counter trim and law enforcement looks at these things. could there be others? could there be a follow-on attacks, or distributed attacks like we saw in mumbai or even in paris? the xhanter is worried about what's happening on scene right there. can i stop him from communicating with anybody else, have him talk to my negotiators, deal with my tactical ifrs. can we arrest or kill him so he doesn't kill anyone else? that's what's going on inside. you brought it up earlier, richard, and you were spot on. it's akin to the bata cramant lan, a nightclub, you know, popular, well known, in the heart of a major european city, late night an attack.
now there were multiple attackers. two went into the bataclan, but nevertheless one attacker goes in, it's a carnage, and he's still alive. that's a parallel to the bataclan. those guys lasted in through a few hours and taukt with police before they were killed and let some bombs go off. so that's the atmosphere now.lke before they were killed and let some bombs go off. so that's the atmosphere now. the police are locking it down, trying to control it. they're trying to lock down through the various technologies we have that law enforcement uses, you can set up and lock the cell communications from the building. you don't want to shut it down and block it, because you could have people calling 911 or giving you information directly about the shooter, so you want to be the cell tower.
the police become the cell tower, and any call coming out, they've got. they can block anybody trying to get in there. or if they're on their game, they're doing it often. so they can deal with that guy. in mumbai, those killers were directed from pakistan, as they were killing malcolm can talk about that extensively, i know, but for law enforcement, that's a difficult scenario. we don't have any indication of that in this case, but standard protocol in a hostage barricade is to lock down that guy and his communication with the outside world. you don't want him calling channel 5 in istanbul and making all kinds of demands. you don't want him calling other confederates, you want him just talking to police negotiators to try to resolve the situation as quickly as possible. >> that might be why, jim, we have the amount of information.
they've been very clear to say they are going to be very careful about the information they're giving out. this could be because of what ear saying right now, and that is that it's ongoing, they want to make sure before they can capture this bad that they do not want, if you will, the overabundance of information that may assist that, again, suspect as they try to apprehend him. jim and mall stand by. i do want to tip base with malcolm nance, this on the discussion you were alluding to, gym, the distinction of it being isis, if you will, related or ken couraged, and malcolm nance, jim cavanaugh, we're going to discuss that after we take a short break. we'll us update you when we come back at the top of the hour, now 8:57 here, 4:58 in is stan bile.
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