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tv   Morning Joe  MSNBC  January 2, 2017 3:00am-6:01am PST

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tradition with the 128th rose parade. the festival of flowers which takes place before the highly-watched rose bowl is typically held on the first day of the new year, but it was delayed this year due to its never on sunday tradition. that me on this monday morning. happy new year, everybody. i'm betty nguyen. "morning joe" starts right now. >> make america great again. okay? you knew that one! >> good morning. it's monday, january the 27nnd. what are we doing working on a federal holiday? >> schools are open. katie couric is working. >> are schools open? >> no. it's a federal holiday. >> you can tell you don't have a kid yet. >> some are. i'll find one. >> this is sure i'm sure a violation of labor law in some way. >> 2017. >> it's a big year. >> big year. >> when is the date?
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>> a couple of weeks. >> oh, my gosh. that's huge. mika has the morning off. south of france and all of that. mark halpern and john heilemann here and msnbc contributor and columnist -- >> did you see that tweet last night? >> i loved that. >> what do you do new year's eve? >> not a whole lot. just chitchatted. also have contributing editor two "time" magazine msnbc political analyst and former aide to the george w. bush white house and state department, elise jordan. >> soon to be legendary. >> photo shop? >> i do that myself. >> you got the photo shop out and doing a little new year's day photo shop? >> you know a lot about computers. >> i love that stuff. >> i use couriers now. >> look. you got to see that tweet. incredible. >> did you like that one? >> it was great. if i could have retweeted it twice, i would have. >> did you retweet it once? >> of course. >> mike barnicle, you may not
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have seen that. >> take your time. it's a three-hour program. >> show the class. >> legendary right there. hello? oh, i got to retreat it! here you go. what is mike barnicle, everybody? >> legendary! >> that is awful. >> you put him in the background of vermont or something. >> looks like the state of new jersey or wisconsin. >> he is a classic. let's go around the table. just see what everybody did on new year's eve. how was your new year's eve, mike? >> i was asleep by 9:30. fell asleep watching movies. >> that sounds exciting. >> around 10:30. >> watching movies? >> watching movies, drinking champagne. to be honest, reading. no movies. but boring! >> that sound great. >> dinner and fell asleep watching the crown. >> what time? >> i didn't but they set off fireworks in central park in midnight and that woke me up. >> those crazy kid.
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>> we were home but we did make it to midnight and indeed saw mariah carey! it was a moment. >> so you all missed live and in person, my kid and i were horrified at -- >> it was incredible. what it did to a legend. >> it required a dumpster fire. we seriously kept looking at it going, what? >> this action on television. can't believe it. >> by the way, how many millions of people were watching new year's rockin' eve? this was their main act! >> mariah. play it. >> let's see it. ♪ i have a feeling >> just drop me down. happy new year. ♪ >> we can't hear, but i'll just get through the moment, okay? >> it was remarkable.
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>> listening to a mariah carey song. >> she listened for three minutes and really great when her lead vocal came in and she just started shaking hands with people. >> apparently it was sabotaged. >> is that what mariah is saying? >> look at that. a plot against her. >> here it is. >> oh, my gosh. >> she had a rough year. her fiance, they broke up. the mriag broke up and this debacle. poor mari. >> the "new york post." "plot against mariah." i-thinking putin. >> surrounded by plots. i'm thinking putin. >> joe, what did you do on new year's eve? >> thank you for asking me. i thought you would never ask. >> it's been under covered. >> it has been under covered. usually the cameras are around me at all times. >> but in this case under the radar. what do you do? >> as you know, because of the tweeters last night -- actually, there was one, said i partied
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with trump all night. like out of a kiss concert ian partied every day. >> what was his evidence of that? >> he had none. >> there was a "the new york times" article that said i was along the revelers at trump's party but that actually wasn't true. >> that was mar-a-lago? >> yes. >> in florida? >> yes. >> "the new york times" asked you if had you amongst the revelers and you denied it? >> no. nobody called me to ask me anything. >> really? >> yeah. >> but you were on the property? >> i was on the property. >> you were at mar-a-lago? >> that's accurate. what happened was we had a meeting at 7:00. i guess he wanted to meet with us before. we were trying to set up an interview. >> as a journalists too. >> well, judging from the response that i get every time i meet with anybody associated with him, no journalists have ever done this before. "60 minutes" has never gone to a president or principle of "the new york times" and certainly
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tom borrow rokaw never did and bradley never did. we went and had a good 15, 20-minute talk with him and everybody was in their tuxes and it was all wonderful. >> did you feel odd you weren't wearing a tux? >> i did. as we said before, my kid and i have stayed at mar-a-lago, you know, four or five years in a row and then he had the running for president of the united states and then suddenly it became a terrible thing so we didn't stay this year. yeah, went in. talked to him. but, yeah, there was only one entrance. so we had to walk in. >> amidst the revelers? >> yes. underdressed, of course. everybody is in tuxes. >> just for the record -- >> so we marched around sort of the perimeter of the revelers. they were still -- this was pre-reveling because i think the party started later inside
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wherever they went. then we walked up to the stairs and kind of hid because we were underdressed for about 30 seconds and marched upstairs and talked to the president-elect for about 15, 20 minutes. >> you were off the property at what time? the witness is under oath, i remind you. >> if -- we probably were delayed and got there about 7:30 and probably off the property by 7:50. >> did you wear any funny hats? >> no. >> did you wear any noise makers? >> no. >> did you kiss anyone under the mistletoe? >> yes. but i didn't know mike barnicle would be there too. and it seemed like the thing to do. no reveling, if that is what you're asking. but yeah. it is interesting, isn't it, that -- i guess it's not. people are -- it's the age of twitter. but i have made a new year's resolution. anybody following me on twitter knows and i've broken the first one. my public media resolutions are,
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one, i'm going to talk less on this show so i better shut up soon. >> you're doing great on that so far! >> i know! two, is i'm going to listen more. three, i'm just -- you know, i'm just not going to let people lie about me. i'm not going to be mean about it and snans they say, okay, we admit. the guy last night said he mischaracterized and that is fine. i'm good with him and i don't know who he is so i'm fine with it. but i'm just not going to let them lie because they have been lying for a year or so. you know about this. >> i'm familiar with. >> yeah, you're familiar with it. >> you know, people go why do you meet on new year' eve. i forget who said, how outrageous that you met him there on new year's eve at 7:00. i said, well, it's not like i could be c.w. mccall and, you know, do convoy, crash the gates doing 98 and say let them truckers roll 10-4 i would get a bullet in my head. you meet the president-elect when the staff says you can meet
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the president-elect. we had a good interview. with any luck, hopefully, bye gone's will be bye gone's from this summer and we will get an interview. >> didn't president obama hold off the record with republicans? >> yes. >> i do remember that. i think a double democrat standard here and i have mixed feelings off the record some of the times. i get why they do it but then, at the same time, what are you sacrificing for? you know? is it's a double-edged sword. >> mika and i have known and have been friends with donald trump to a decade. ten, eleven years. things get, obviously, very rough during the campaign. but i told everybody when they were making up stories about us sitting down and hanging out with him watching returns, i said the irony of this is, nobody ever reported this, that mika and i spent more time
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consecutively with barack obama in the oval office one on one than we ever did with donald trump which was 90 minutes straight talking policy and it was all off-the-record. as journalists know and barack obama, i can name a thousand people who have done the same thing or don aually more than i did the other night trying to set up an interview. but if the president of the united states says come to the white house and talk to us 90 minutes it's off-the-record and i want to give you perspective, obama does that most of the time as do all presidents. you go -- i think. >> that actually gets to a larger issue. does anybody here at this table think there is a danger going forward within the media that if you do things like this, if you have an off-the-record conversation with donald trump you will be accused in the media by some of your colleagues of normallizing donald trump? >> is there a danger of in that no, a fact of that. >> that happens every day. if you write as i did this
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weekend an article for "the washington post," where you're simply trying to put things in context, so reared will have a better understanding, there is a total meltdown from the left who says you're trying to normalize him, you're trying to normalize him when, in fact, you're only doing your job. >> i was going to say it's not just trump. it happened, you know, famously this year in the wikileaks e-mails. there was an e-mail that came out that noted the fact that a whole bunch of journalists, including us, had gone to an of-the-record journal in the summer of 2015 where they invited dozens of people and basically everybody who covered politics in new york. >> we saw you there. >> we all went. everybody went and had a drink before the campaign. >> unlike the other night i had food and irank athe benson thing. i had ice tea. >> everybody has had things like this forhe entire em time we covered politics. not just liberals accuse people
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of normalizing trump we spent months after the wikileak e-mails with everybody on the right accusing us to be com polici complicit campaign. this is how journalism and politics work. there is off-the-record drinks and dinners and everybody who covers a presidential campaign has done it forever and will do it forever into the future. >> has done it forever. >> forever. >> i talk about ben bradley. he was extraordinarily close to jfk and everybody that worked in washington. he was also a legendary -- not just legendary as you. >> thank you. >> but about as historic of an editor as there has been. he was incredible. katharine graham, good friends with nancy reagan and ronald reagan. had dinner with them. this stuff happens all the time. tom brokaw, you know? he has probably been out hunting with every member of the supreme court. and jay-z. the guy gets around. he knows everybody.
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it's what happens. the question is, elise, how do you respond to that? are you suckered into it or are you whatever? and, of course, anybody that watches this show knows and i say it all the time. we get paid for speaking our mind. and that is why, you know, we predicted he is going to win the primary, but things got really ugly when he started talking about the muslim band and judge cu cureo and everything else and david duke stuff i couldn't be harsher. you call it like you see it. >> i think you have to judge. i think the audiences aren't there if they know they are getting a load of b.s. >> right. >> what i think is going to be the big question for media going forward covering trump is this is someone who breaks all of the norms. there are certain norms that the press respects that the president respects and if he continually breaks all of those
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normal norms, how does the president respond? the press does not record on the president's family. they shouldn't. that is something that is accepted in the press corps. trump keeps breaking all of these norms. he is going to be protected by those norms? >> no. i think the problem is, right now, this is something for the media to worry about in the new year. i'm not worried about it. i'm completely content and you can look at my transcripts every day and read my "the washington post" post articles through the year. i'm going to keep telling it the way i see it and that is why more people watch "morning joe" last year than ever before. it went well. people said it wasn't trump, trump, trump. no. ask donald trump. we spent 90% of the campaign bashing him but the thing is people knew they could tune in and we would speak our mind, no matter what it was. but the real danger for the media right now, they are all going, oh, he is going to lock us up in jail and here are the press. no. the problem is everybody is so obsessed and he's gotten in their heads so much and they so
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worried about normallizing him. they aren't doing their jobs. they aren't digging in deep enough. not just vladimir putin is coming over to take us over. they are not asking enough questions about what about this relationship with russia? i personally very unyaeasy with the relationship with russia. i will tell you our meeting was sort of semi off-the-record. one of the things donald trump talked about was russia. i just sort of asked him offhand, okay, i understand what you're doing to mexico and that is, he is setting up negotiations. i understand what he is doing with china. setting up negotiations. he has got really smart, you know, people coming in, whether you're talking about wilbur ross or half of the people from goldman sachs. they are digging into the deals. i get that but i don't get the
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russia thing and if we do the interview one of the things i'll pressure him out. i really haven't seen any articles even suggesting this. he said the last two presidents have tried to push russia into a corner, and, you know, under bush, putin invaded georgia. under obama, he invaded ukraine. crimea. and i thought this was interesting. he said the worst thing barack obama ever did was call them a regional power, because for decades, everybody has been saying that their foreign policy is driven by what? resentment. he said, so let's see. let's see what happens if we go out there and are positive. it can't be much worse than it was over the past eight years. if it is, then we will correct. >> well, you sort of going around a central point that is on the next read that is on the
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teleprompter here. >> right. >> the media, unfortunately, large parts of the media, not all of the media, have spent so much time obsessing over his tweets to the exclusion of have you received a full intelligence briefing yet asked the president-elect. >> right. >> and you realize, when you think about it, that donald trump is playing us. >> yes. >> quite successfully because i don't know, not that i should, just me, whether he has received a full intelligence briefing. i don't know that he has fully addressed in part the relationship with russia he hopes to find going forward. we don't know any of that but we know every single tweet and we know all about the tweets. >> when he is not having press conferences, we are so dependent. he controls the forum. >> he is playing us. >> yeah. >> which, again, we have seen less and less access to presidents in the past. it's going to be very interesting to see what happens once the white house gets setup.
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but you are right, though. like those tweets. he sends out a tweet and it dominates news coverage for three or four days. it's like, look at the bright shiny object. everybody looks at the bright shiny object. >> he does not need us. >> john, what about -- what do you think, going into 2017? what does the press need to do better than it's doing? or do you think it's doing -- on the issue -- on the issue of donald trump in particular. because, right now, there seems to be a lot of sound and fury signifying nothing coming from both sides and, quite frankly, a lot of good journalists getting embarrassed and getting out ahead of themselves on stories that end up not being exactly right. >> well, i think that -- well, certainly trying to avoid falling into the trap of making
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obvious errors of fact is a huge element but i think to go to elise point about norms. i think people have to have the same attitude toward trump than any president who won, whether it was hillary clinton or if there had been some other candidate which is to hold on them accountable in the most fierce and relentless way possible. >> right. >> that is if it involves -- remembering what those norms are and what the standards are, not having either grading him on a curve in either direction which is to say allowing him to behave in ways that where he is allowing him to draw up a new set of rules and behave in ways that are outside the conventions of what we expect from a president of the united states. either too tough on him or either being too weak on him. >> an important point. what happened with obama was he was allowed to get away with being the toughest president ever cracking down on journalists, on abusing executive authority. now that trump has that power, the mainstream media isn't as comfortable with it.
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>> i think our job is the same as it's always been. but remembering what that is really important and a lot of people have lost sight of what the actual job in the press should be. >> you're correct. the media for the most part. i say this. i absolutely love the media. i love reading "the new york times" and "the washington post" and i love it. it's -- maybe it's why i can talk about it three hours a day because i love it and i love the people that write it and the editors. it's fascinating to me. but i say this with love. they have gotten -- he's gotten into their head and they have gotten out of their game. instead of please, stop writing stories about how he is an autocrat that is going to sort of nuclear war. instead, say he has appointed the most conservative cabinet since 1928 and talk about what his nominee for the epa believes, and for the labor department, whate believes. talk about the policies that are
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going to actually impact people's lives. he is not going to be hitler but he does have a lot of people around him who don't believe in climate change. that's the story because that is an actual real challenge. not a republican rice tag starting in washington. >> got to focus on the policies that effect real lives of real people and hold him accountable for doing a good job and he adheres to et. what we can't do is overcover ways he definite yates frviates. he will behave a way in twitter and he way he conducts himself unlike any other president ever has and if we obsess that and not hold him accountable for policy and not hold him accountable for ethics, it will be a huge mistake. >> in order to do our jobs, as john pointed out, in order to do the jobs the way we should do it and have done it with barack obama or in past presidents is to, for many of us in the media,
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get over being stunned at the fact that donald trump is going to be president of the united states. get over it. >> get over it! do your job! st do your job! and they just haven't been able to do it. look at the policies and what he said. if he tweets something out, at some point understand. >> maybe if we had gotten over it, we would have now already found out do you or do you not trust your intelligence people? do you or do you not trust them? that is a huge question. >> how many stories have you read on the front page of "the new york times" of "wall street journal" or "the washington post" about his epa selection or his labor selection or what is happening with rex tillerson right now? there is -- what about the supreme court nomination? there should be an obsession on that. >> what about the medicaid? come on. >> yeah. the department of hhs. there are so many things that donald trump has already put out there that are going to majorly
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disrupt american politics. they are freaking out about tweets and saying that he's going to be a nazi and throw american journalists in jail. i don't know if donald trump. lfollow that lead but there are a lot more issues out there. again, i cannot believe what coverage there has been about the fact that he is going to select a supreme court justice that could overturn roe v wade. that is a little significant, isn't it? >> you did very well in your new year's resolution to talk less. >> okay. this is all the talking i'm going to do. put tape over my mouth. you guys do the talking. can i just say a personal privilege? i do want to thank everybody for last year, watching. and it was "morning joe's" biggest year.
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i wish willie and mika are here but they are, obviously, still out celebrating. i always say appreciate your patience. we appreciate your patience. it's amazing how many people come up to us. heilemann and halpern can't walk down the street without being hugged. >> for what we have to put up with? >> having to be here. >> hugs. >> silent week. any way. still ahead on "morning joe," incoming white house press secretary sean spicer will join us. plus president obama is head to go capitol hill this week to defend his signature health care law and get the latest on that from jake sherman. reporting in istanbul where authorities are searching for the gunman who opened fire inside a nightclub on new year's eve. i think we are going to be talking to richard engel on that. you're watching "morning joe." we will be right back. companies in the country. after expanding our fiber network coast to coast.
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turkey where there is an intense manhunt for the gunman who opened fire at one of the country's most popular nightclubs as people were beginning to celebrate new year. officials are calling the shooting a terror attack. it all started around 1:30 a.m. local time when according to the provinces governor a gunman shot and killed outside the club and then he stormed inside and opened fire on the roughly 600 party go-ers. police are telling msnbc 120 bullets fired and 39 people dead and officials are saying 28 of them are foreign nationals. 69 more injured, including an american. in a newly released surveillance video, you can see bullets ricochetting off cars as the gunman runs down the sidewalk. in the other video which was released in slow motion, you can see people hide for cover and a dog run away as the gunman begins to open fire just outside
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the club before he enters. the white house has condemned the, quote, horrific terrorist attack. with us now live from istanbul, nbc news chief foreign correspondent richard engel. richard, tell us, first of all, what the latest is on the manhunt but, also, this is just another, in a long string of terror attacks, aimed at turkey. could you explain as to our viewers exactly why turkey has become such a target this year? >> reporter: absolutely. so first on the manhunt. the problem is the militant managed to escape. he was wng a black jacket. he was wearing a backpack. he went into this club called reina which is further down the street which police have opened up. after he was shooting at the people inside for about seven to ten minutes, he dropped his weapons, took off his coat, and left while people were escaping.
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injured and terrified people. isis has now claimed responsibility. the fear here is that with every hour that passes, it's more difficult to find him because he could cross the turkish border and enter into syria into isis territory which would be much more difficult to track him down. still a dragnet is up there and extra security checkpoints. there is really a nationwide search for this particular militant. police have released a very blurry photograph of him, but no name. the second question -- why turkey? why now? why so many isis attacks? frankl frankly, for several years, this was the main transit route for isis and foreign fighters particularly to come through turkey and sometimes stage here for a little while and then go into syria to join the so-called islamic state. they felt comfortable here. some of the isis fighters had their families here. they established this as something of a safe haven. the problem is now turkey has
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made this alliance with russia, also an alliance with the united states and is fighting isis. so the group is retaliating and we are seeing, they attacked the airport, if you remember. numerous attacks in the city itself. this perhaps is one of the most chilling attacks just on civilians, on tourists and party-goers who were celebrating new year's eve. it's going to be very damaging to the national psyche and also the national economy. >> richard engel, thank you so much in istanbul, as always. please be careful over there. let's bring in the national correspondent for "the atlanta" the author of the book the way of the strangers encounters with islamic state. graeme wood. it wasn't so long ago in turkey that we were outraged at turkey for allowing isis t flow frankly across the borders. basically, called it basically an isis highway and they let them go in and out. a lot has changed the past year
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or so. >> from 2014 to 2015. turkey was a grand central station for jihadists coming in and out of syria. the last year, things have changed. turkey has actually made its own incursions into syria and it's currently taking an area called al bab which is owned by isis on its sort of western fringes, so isis has been saying very clearly it's on. we are fighting against you and there is no hold barred any more. >> given that background and given that istanbul is a huge strau sprawling urban area, richard engel's report the gunman fired seven to ten minutes with no security there and no security showing up within seven to ten minutes. that seems like a really extended period of time for someone to be free shooting inside and then escaping. >> yeah. i think there might be a little bit of incompetence we are looking at here. we also know there was security outside the nightclub. you just can't expect every
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threat and when the gunman shows up and he neutralizes the security forces he has free run of the place. isis when they took credit today, they had their attacker went in. he had grenades and kalashnikov. for seven to ten minutes he was executing people and cornering them and point blank range and shooting people in the head. >> how fascinating. turkey and russia, their relationship constantly changing. turkey shot down a russian plane not so long ago. the two couldn't be any further apart. now it seems they are forming an alliance. >> certainly looks that way. what is that going to mean going into this next phase of the so-called syria cease-fire? i mean, we will see how long it lasts, but if russia and turkey are newly aligned, i expect that these attacks are going to continue to up tick within turkey and it's going to really take a big hit on the economy, on tourism, on business as usual
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in the country. >> and the attacks against russia. >> yeah. turkey already been hit hard this year by all sorts of political changes, attacks. but the fact that they have had this cease-fire for a long time, turkey was pushing very hard to get rid of bashar al assad and now they have officially signed up in a kind of halfway cease-fire with various jihadist groups, not isis. isis can look at them and say no question turkey is collaborating with the enemy and their legitimate target. >> what does isis worry about today? >> isis i worried about losing mosul and raqqa. if they don't have that any more they don't have their main selling point. they were saying we are a state, a caliphate and if you come with us you get the utopia you wanted. it longer looks that way when with you're retreating in the desert and in small towns hiding in barns and what they will have
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if the continuing trend goes with mosul being taken and raqqa being sacked as well as well. >> all right. >> one more. >> alex is going to kill you. >> within turkey and the army, what is the relationship now? >> well, erdogan has made great strides in eliminating the secular elements of the army. for a while it was uneasy. the fact that he prevailed in this coup means he hat upper hand and will for years to come. >> all right. graeme, thank you so much. happy new year. >> yeah. good to be here, i guess. >> i guess. all right. coming up, a new congress convenes tomorrow on capitol hill and some democrats have decided which of trump's cabinet picks they are going to be targeting and we will take a look at that list next on "morning joe."
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he is president until january 20th and after that, it's our turn. so we will see what happens. i mean, he's got to protect what he wants to do and perhaps you could say his legacy, but, you know, if you look at obamacare where you have, in many cases,
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over 100% it's unaffordable. bill clinton said it. maybe he shouldn't have said it during the campaign, but ed it. its unaffordable and it doesn't work and it's been crazy. >> president obama is head to go capitol hill wednesday on meet with house and senate democrats on how to fight the repeal effort against obamacare. republican lawmakers have vowed to begin their efforts to overturn the federal health law as soon as tomorrow when the new congress convenes. meanwhile, according to "the washington post," incoming senate minority leader chuck schumer told senate majority leader mitch mcconnell that democrats plan to aggressively target eight of trump's cabinet nominees and stretch their confirmation hearings out. that including trump's picks, the head of departments of state, justice, labor, education, and treasury, if i could just unsolicited advice, just pick one or two. carry that narrative. a lot easier for everybody to follow. and you may be successful. let's bring in senior writer at
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politico and co-author of "the playbook" jake sherman. what are the one or two cabinet picks that both the trump team and capitol hill republicans are the most concerned about? >> i think you have to say rex tillerson and which is one of them. i think you're right. this whole thing is about building a narrative and telling a story about somebody. democrats might forget because they have had barack obama in the white house eight years. republicans hold a lot of keys. they have the gavel and could do basically whatever they want. at the top of playbook today son sonny perdue will lead agriculture position and he is somebody who has been vetted.
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a battle that republicans likely won't have to have in these early days of the administration. >> mark? >> there are all sorts of the russia issue and mccain and graham critical and confirmation of tillerson and others. one thing they are stressing at the hill we need to start fast and don't give us an early loss and a staggering loss that one is defeated a staggering loss if they fought with them over russia, so they will try to get republicans in line and democrats, as you said, they don't really have a strategy to try to hurt trump with a very targeted shot. they are still struggling -- >> you just don't sense, mike, they are going to stop rex tillerson. if john mccain and lindsey graham think they are going to stop rex tillerson, they need to go somewhere else. that guy i think is going to really surprise everybody on the hill. also when you have bob gates and
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condi rice and jim baker behind him, i think they would be better off to look at the epa pick or somebody else. >> jake, off of that, given one of the tenets for our social security, medicaid. why not the principle point of democrats trying to tell people in the country through the process of the nomination process, the hearings, that you voted for donald trump and this guy stands against your best interests, his designee for hhs? >> democrats have tried that to little success. paul ryan, who was known for, at the time, to be what democrats said were radical plans to overhaul all entitlements, that didn't work. he was the vice presidential nominee and the speaker of the house and he is in a relatively popular figure. the one point i would make, we have a lot of people who are very, very rich, who are up for
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nomination whose finances have not really been vetted. i don't know what it looks like when you look under the hood of steve mnuchin finances what he has invested in and i have no idea and nobody does because these aren't people who have signed financial disclosure forms. tom price and others are vetted you will not find a surprise with in that sense. you could talk your way around issues but if you have a surprise that you're investing in something that perhaps you don't want people to see. again, i don't know. but no one knows because they have not filed financial disclosures in the past. >> you brought up a name i think also is going to be really targeted, especially by elizabeth warren and others. steve mnuchin -- i saw a story this weekend where he -- the headline at least and the story said, i'm sure we will hear more about it if it's actual accurate, that he foreclosed on a widow who was a couple of cents behind in her payments.
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if something like that is true, that is what we will see in a guy like mnuchin -- >> watch the sessions also. i don't know if it's unprecedented but certainly unusual to have someone up for confirmation for a cabinet post who has been previously rejected by the senate. >> i think sessions, because he is well-liked in the senate, sessions will probably be better off than, say, a guy named mnuchin who one of his associates said after being selected that he could not find thenited states senate on a map if you put a map of washington, d.c. in front of him, which is a little troubling. let me ask you, john heilemann, though. as you look at all of the selections, is there one in particular that you think is going to be problematic? >> i think they probably will all get through but i think the reason that the tillerson nomination is interesting it intersects with putin hacking the election. the fact there are going to be a discussion that is going to go
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on, first of all, about donald trump's business interest and second of all about the broader russia concerns and tillerson is folded into that, i think he'll get through, but it could be a very messy process because it touches on these other areas of legitimate concern and controversy, not just among democrats but decent slice of the republican party too. >> i think that is going to be the most watched, the tillerson is going to be the most watched and fascinating. also is going to provide the greatest public service to americans so this russia question that lingers out there can be fully vetted and that is what any questions people have about donald trump's relationship with putin, with russia will be vetted out in the rex tillerson hearings. >> from what i see, donald trump has no russia strategy. it's these one-off tweets about putin here and there. i find that really problematic. rex tillerson is going to present the administration's case for how it is going to deal with russia and with russia's -- the rising threat within eastern europe. i think it's going to be very
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important to hear the policy that he outlines. >> all right. jake sherman, thank you so much. >> thanks. >> i hope you're having a happy new year. coming up next, another reason for us to visit the vatican. we will explain straight ahead.
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we talked about what i did this weekend. we certainly know what john heilemann did this weekend. >> we don't want to know. >> no? you want me to tell you? it has something to do with the fact that police in california are looking for the person who vandalized the iconic hollywood sign over the weekend and using tarps. the prankster who goes by the name of heilemann, changed a 45-foot tall letters to read hollyweed. according to police the security footage shows a lone individual climbing the fence that guards the signs. the police say the incident will be investigated as a misdemeanor
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trespassing. >> misdemeanor? how did you get up that high? >> how did i get that high? >> he is always, dude. >> what kind after question is that? >> all right. >> you'i didn't do it alone. i had help. >> another reason to go to the vatican. one of the best, i think. >> what? the weed? >> no, mcdonald's! >> i'm sorry. >> yeah. you'll have to tell me about vatican weed. i've never heard anything about that. >> it's called incense. >> is that what it is? >> yes. that's one name for it. >> a new mcdonald's location is causing a stir in italy. that's because a franchise of the fast food chain has opened in vatican city. >> no! >> holy, holy, holy. the new occupation occupies a bottom floor of a building that is also home to several senior cardinals who have gotten unusually obese the past few months. widespread opposition poke out
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when the plans were made public in october. the opening of the mcdonald's was low key and the restaurant made no announcement. >> are there arches? >> yes, there are golden arches. why do you ask? >> i didn't see a picture of the actual restaurant there. i bet there aren't. i bet it's tasteful. >> we need to go over there and investigate. >> i can sort of accept that but the drive-thru and the sistine chapel. >> that is rough! coming up, the president-elect ended 2016 by once again casting doubt over russian interference in the election. now the disconnect between the issue and the outgoing and incoming presidents is creating friction on capitol hill. we will talk about that and president obama is bk and forth with the new incoming president when we return. "morning joe" will be right back.
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for patients like lynn, advanced genomic testing may lead to other treatment options that can work. learn how genomic testing is changing the way we fight cancer at cancercenter.com/genomics welcome back to "morning joe." it's monday, january 2nd. everybody around the set asking why we are here. >> on a federal holiday. >> we are here because we love it and because -- >> public service. >> it's public service. we would miss you. no, we would miss you. mika has the morning off. where is mika? >> south of france. >> at the vatican. >> having mcdonald. >> exactly. we got managing editors of bloomberg politics mark halpern and john heilemann with us and msnbc contributor mike barnicle. and joining the conversation is
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the news and finance anchor at yahoo! and the recipient of perhaps one of the most unfortunate questions since perry mason was on the air and somebody would ask an unfortunate question to a witness who would then just blurt it out, because he had the gun and killed him! this is viana goldriga asked by one congressman dana roar becker in 2016 where are you from? where did you come from? >> that was a great moment in 2016. >> it was a great moment in 2016. >> you can say you were a refuge from moldova? >> i was contact by the television station in moldova and asked to do an interview with him. they didn't even know who i was until the congressman so thank you, congressman roh bacher. i connected with my peeps. >> when did you leave?
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>> 1980. >> you left in the heap of the cold war. dana was on your side in 1980. he thought tyranny was a bad thing back then. >> yeah. that was his go to, right? i was a speech writer for ronald reagan. don't you know who i was? i was a cold warrior and things are different now. things are different with vladimir putin. he was just like gorbachev. i think a lot of people would question that thought process. >> it was fascinating. i don't get that, by the way. because he was such a cold warrior. it's kind of weird seeing what happened. >> he arm wrestled putin, apparently. >> i knew the guy pretty well. >> in a bar. >> literally the last person you expect to take that position. >> the last person i expect to take that. i remember we were in a hearing and it was -- it was a classified hearing back -- maybe it was 2000, 2001? and he was ranting on and on.
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i think. he was ranting on and on about russian leaders and putin and everything else. >> now he is putin's favorite congressman, apparently. times have changed. >> i guess so. times are changing but not in the way bob dylan sang about in the '60s. any way. the u.s. government is continuing as we speak of russia to grapple with the suspected cyber attacks by that country. the latest. russian malware discovered on a laptop at a small vermont electric provider. the utility company said it discovered the virus before it affected the grid. the homeland security is warning officials to be on lookout for a code associated with, quote, grizzly step. the cyberoperations targeting the u.s. government and pl political organizations and businesses and scitizens could e widespread. on friday putin said he would
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hold off retaliating for the sanctions by the u.s. saying he would watch the new administration and how it reacts. quote, we will not create any problems for you as diplomats. we will not expel anyone. we will not prevent their families and children from using their traditional leisure sites during the new year's holidays. putin then invited the children of u.s. diplomats from russia and the kremlin for a new year's eve party. trump tweeted great move on day by v. putin. i always knew he was smart. heed aed the russian are playing cnn and msnbc for such foals. funny to watch. they don't have a clue. fox news totally gets it. on saturday night, president-elect trump explained his reasons for doubting the
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u.s. intelligence and analysts that say russia was behind the hacking. >> i just want them to be sure, baugh it's a pretty serious charge and i want them to be sure and if you look at the weapons of mass destruction that was a disaster. and they were wrong. and so i want them to be sure. i think it's unfair if they don't know and i know a lot about hacking and hacking is a very hard thing to prove, so it could be somebody else. and i also know things that other people don't know, and so they cannot be sure of the situation. >> what do you know that other people don't know? >> you'll find out on tuesday or wednesday. you know, if you have something really important, write it out and have it delivered by a courier, the old-fashion the way because i'll tell you what, no computer is safe. i don't care what they say. no computer is safe. i have a boy who is 10 years old. he can do anything with a computer. if you want something to really go without protection, write it out and have it sent by courier.
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that is the way i feel. >> do you know the administration actually -- the last part of it, there's so much to unpack there. the last part. it the administration is basically now, the incoming administration, they basically have the understanding that i think a lot more americans now have, that you have to be careful about what you say on your cell phones and what you text because as they always say, the russians, the chinese, and the israeli are listening to everything. but a lot to unpack there. i don't know where to begin. so let me just throw a question open for the table. i was listening to npr this week as you know while i was having my soy latte. i heard a reporter on cnn say that russia allegedly hacked into the dnc to influence the
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outcome of the election. allegedly. and the word sort of stuck out to me, because i thought the fbi director and the head of the cia both concluded that they did, in fact, hack the dnc and podesta, and they did it to influence the election. didn't both agencies conclude that? >> i think they are waiting for confirmation from vladimir putin or v. putin that he did, in fact, authorized the hack. in all seriousness, i think we may be accustomed as journalists to say alleged, alleged. this is was authorized by the russians. vp authorized this. this happened. and in this case, we should believe the 17 agencies that confirm it as well. >> so i'll ask you guys the same thing. again, i was thrown off this weekend when i heard npr talk about the alleged hacking by
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russia. that russian allegedly hacked. is it alleged or is this a point of fact? >> well, agreement amongst people in the u.s. government. i think she is right. a journalistic convention which is valuable. we have not seen proof but assertions by the government but journalists are right to always be skeptical even the american government. but it is fact within the government. donald trump is trying to change two relationships when he comes into office. one is the relationship with the intelligence agencies and one with the russians. those two attempts are freaking out people in both parties in a dramatic way. some aspect of how he is doing it, i think, everyone agrees is not the right way to go about it. other aspects are things he promised during the campaign. he said repeatedly during the campaign i'm going to make nice with vladimir putin. he got elected. he said repeatedly during the campaign the intelligence agency messed up and weapons of mass destruction, i don't think they do a good job. but it is his job as president to make these changes in a way that actually is in the interest of united states and not the
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loosey-goosey way he has gone about it so far. >> john in. >> yes. i think -- again, now the consensus of the u.s. intelligence establishment across the board that this occurred, that russia hacked. >> the russians did hack? >> hacked the dnc and podesta's e-mails. not a dispute about the consensus. >> can news agency should stop saying alleged hacking or wait until they see the evidence out there? >> i think continuing to say alleged as long as you put it in the context of the fact. the hacks are alleged although there is a consensus across cia and fbi and ten other intelligencing operations across the united states agree on this matter and continue to say alleged because, again, there is no -- >> you don't have the proof? >> we don't have the demonstrated proof. they put out a report last week that had some facts and some proof offered but it's not been proven conclusively. we haven't seen the kind of detail assessment that donald trump is going to see.
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i think if donald trump were to go -- when he has his intelligence briefing if donald trump were to come out convinced given he is more skeptical than anybody else about the intelligence operations. if you were to come out and say i sat with the intelligence agencies and i am not convinced. people would then be in a place where there would be -- >> didn't that happen already? he's harass will intelligence briefings. >> we don't know that. has he had the full briefing? i don't know that. >> at least a partial. >> he is now saying this week he is going to go and sit with the intelligence agencies on this matter. >> on this matter specifically? >> if he were to come out of that meeting and declare all of his doubts had now been delayed, i think we would northbound place where there would be such a broad consensus that probably the news media probably would be able to move past the formal convention of saying allegedly. i think mark's point is important. we talked earlier on the show about norms. one of the thing trump is doing and freaking people is that he is casting doubt and aspersians
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and implicit and sometimes explicit on the intelligence agencies serving him when he becomes president of the united states. we have never seen this happen before an incoming president has been so openly disdainful and dubious about the people he is going to be relying on in a matter of weeks for the intelligence that he operates on as president of the united states. that is an extraordinary thing. >> that, my friends, is the lead. he is 18 days away from being president of the united states and he is implying and stating, obviously, out front that he does not trust the people who are entrusted with providing him with intel. >> it's a huge risk. i think most professionals would say if you have these doubts, express them in private. on the other hand, as i said, he said this is as a candidate. he got elected on it. and he is trying to force change there. >> but now in what he just said, we just heard in the clip, you know, he is equating the intel that he is receiving on russia's hacking with weapons of mass
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destruction, where those books were partially cooked by the sitting vice president of the united states, dick cheney. >> not necessarily a failure of intelligence. a politicization of intelligence. >> there was failure of intelligence at that point. >> true. there was failure of intelligence on wmds. you had the cia director george tenet going into the white house and george w. bush looked at what he handed him and he said to his cia director, he said, this is kind of thin. is this all you got? to which george tenet today up and waved his arms and said, mr. president, it's a slam dunk. that was the cia director saying that. so there is skepticism among americans and it's probably why he was able to do this during the campaign and not be punished for it. i will say this, though. i've said it before. there is a two-year russia investigation.
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doesn't matter what anybody does. they are going investigating this for two years. the cia can chop you up into little pieces as they did with george w. bush in a war that half of them did not like by leaking something selectively here and leaking something slis selectively there and they don't go one mad cia analyst. it's the headline cia, you know, cia suggests bush lied and cooked books on weapons of mass destructions or cia source says donald -- like if i'm going to make an agency mad, let me tell you which agencies at the very bottom of the list. >> cia. >> the central intelligence agency, because they cut people up. like that is what they do. and he needs to make nice with the intel community. if for no other reason, for his own political survival because as this two-year investigation moves forward, mark halpern, he
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is going to be cut to bits every day by leaks outside of the cia unless a breach is repaired and, by the way, that is just the political reason for it. we all know the bigger reason why he has got to get in line with the agencies. >> 100%. i think mike pence is aware of this and i think you may see a correction as early as this week after he gets that briefing. on the other hand, yoi on the other hand, i don't want to be misunderstood. the american women and men brave and hard working. since the iraq war other times they have been wrong and trump has cited those. >> no. we understand. >> yes. but he is going to try to get them to treat him like a different kind of consumer of their product. he is going to do it in some ways that i think will potentially risk them going to war with him which i think would be a disaster for his presidency. >> by the way, news flash with all due respect to couriers as far as security. i can tell you this. china, russia, israeli knows how to read letters too.
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it's not just over cybersecurity. we sent plenty of letters back to the former soviet union with the government reading line by line. >> that is one thing everybody is saying. you listen to these breathless reports. russia is doing dah, dah, dah dah! because that is the story right now. well, as bob corker politely said without saying, we do this to them. everybody does this to everybody. >> yeah. >> we actually tapped -- barack obama had angel merkel's phone tapped. it's what they do. i'm not saying that it's great what russia has done. i'm just saying there -- again, this goes back to what are reporters' jobs? this weekend, i listened to the news and you would have thought that the old soviet union had tanks on the border of canada and about to storm in. put it in perspective.
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what is the threat? what should we be concerned about? there are a lot of things to be concerned about right now. and the hacking is huge. because it may have impacted the outcome of an election. but we have got to do a better job reporting this and explaining to people what they are actually seeing is one side of a cyber war. >> here is a perspective. that perspective is you are about to get a report ordered by sitting president barack obama on this whole situation. that will be out before the january 20th. >> we get to read it? >> no. you won't get to read it but you get to read about it. you will have a concerted effort in the senate to establish a select committee to study this. >> right. >> and then you have a series of european election. you mentioned angel merkel. then we will find out if the russians are not solely interested in which they are not. >> the balance tick states are very nervous right now. >> this is a great example of covering what matters.
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select committee. there is politics there to be sure but why does it matter? it matters because we need a committee that is bipartisan and investigate wherever the facts lead including if the facts lead to the notion that donald trump's chances of winning went up dramatically because of what russia did. if there is not a select committee it's less likely to be bipartisan and less likely to be serious and less likely to have subpoena power and do the things it needs to do. >> what i understand we are still asking the question why isn't npr or other news agencies, i guess they are being cautious. talking about the alleged hacking. why don't we get the evidence? it seems to me -- obviously, if we were attacked militarily, we would get the information. if this cyberattack wasn't an attack against american democracy. >> it's the same mothic as as to why the president didn't act more aggressively and sooner once we did find out this was coming from the russians, right? >> why didn't he? >> i don't know. you would hear from the white
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house officials that this opens pandora's box and turns into a cyberwar. >> tom cotton and other senators were pushing barack obama to move aggressively against the russians, what, six months ago? nine months ago? why didn't he? >> we can't overstate what a defeat and an accomplishment this was for vladimir putin, intentional or not. imagine in fvladimir putin who ran -- didn't believe the information that the fsv was giving him. he does take detail briefings from his intelligence agency. >> something barack obama dismissed as regional power. >> just four years ago. >> just four years ago. to be accused worldwide of impacting the most powerful nations. even if it's not true. this is a massive pr win for putin. >> you look at what they have. they have great energy sector. the rest of their economy is
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nothing and they have nuclear weapons. now they have a hacking capability and a spying capability that they are willing to deploy for a country run bay former kgb agent that is dr dangerous to the united states and now a president-elect wants to diffuse that in a different way. >> i am told that early on in the fall election cycle, maybe as early as the beginning of september, there was, as a lot of issues, split within the administration. some urging barack obama to come out against russia and pointing out what they felt russia was doing but the president of the united states thought it was a thumb on the election scale and chose not to do it because at that point in time everybody thought including barack obama thought hillary clinton was going to win in a walk. >> but saying cut it out, you know, that doesn't seem to me to be enough for the leader of the free world to curtail vladimir putin from interfering with our election. >> cyberwar. >> it doesn't matter what the
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timing is. if you know russia and china or another country is trying to impact the outcome of the election you do something. >> like james comey. he didn't want to interfere. >> a model of restraint. >> i think mike's version of events is basically what people believe occurred. two years from now, as you point out that the end of these investigations. if we get to the point at the end of two years there is most more allegedly, absolutely everyone is 100% what happened is russia did perform these hacks and did leak material to wikileaks with the purpose of trying to elect donald trump, if that all becomes settled history, history will have a lot of questions for barack obama about why he did not do more in october. the long story of the president deciding, for legitimate reasons, the notion that if he had acted more aggressively he would have been seen or been seen as a politicized thing or him trying to help hillary clinton win but his decision, he'll be second-guessed about this forever. >> i got a question for everybody here as we go to break. think back about the leaks.
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and try to think about which leak from russia through wikileaks, if it was from russia, being npr now, allegedly from russia was the most damaging to hillary clinton's campaign. if there was a leak or series of leaks that cost her to lose wisconsin other than not visiting wisconsin, and michigan? we will do that. hold on. this is called a deep detease a talk about it later. >> you won't believe what happened. >> kids dot darnedest things. up next is sean spicer. you're watching "morning joe." we will be right back. tech: at safelite, we know how busy your life can be. mom: oh no... tech: this mom didn't have time to worry about a cracked windshield. so she scheduled at safelite.com and with safelite's exclusive "on my way text" she knew exactly when i'd be there, so she didn't miss a single shot.
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would have gonts otten off on t wrong foot with putin. president putin, let's look ahead and build a new relationship. >> has the obama administration given something of a gift to the incoming trump administration on this? >> if the trump folks are smart or shrewd politically they would view it that way and say, look. he took care ofreprisals. he cleaned the deck for me. if he is smart that the way he with will take. frankly in congress we don't share that view and feel something more has to do done. >> that is ed rendell and adam schiff. both saying donald trump did donald trump a favor by taking action against russia before donald trump takes office. by the way, that was another question. i said that i talked to him and talked to him about russia. and he talked about his own version of sort of a reset.
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i asked about his relationship with obama. i said wt -- he said, great. that's what he said, he said it's great. we do a couple of things in the press and he does his thing in the press. i could have beat him. i do my thing in the press. he has been great. that is very fascinating. so who knows. maybe -- i don't know that there was coordination here but they may be right. maybe, just maybe, barack obama did donald trump a favor and put the sanctions forward and so donald trump has as these people saying, leverage. we will see. let's go right now new york city where we are, actually. so we don't have to actually go anywhere. "morning joe" will be right back. but you know who else is in new york city? nbc white house correspondent kristen welker. the new congress reconvenes tomorrow and donald trump is the first big battle with lawmakers including some republicans. what are you hearing? >> reporter: that is absolutely
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right, joe. i'm just down the block from you guys. i'll come visit a little bit later on today. but, no, you're absolutely right. it does look like this is a potential battle between president-elect and congress. and you have members of congress essentially saying two things. one, they don't doubt the intelligence. and number two, that there is bipartisan support for new sanctions. and stiffer sanctions if mr. trump moves to reverse some of the actions thatreside obama has taken. this is what his fellow republican john mccain had to say over the weekend. take a listen. >> we will be working for much tougher sanctions against russia. they attacked the united states of america. the hacking was an attack and we should be treated as such and we think their financial institutions and other aspects of the russian economy should be addressed. >> reporter: so the move by the president to impose stiffer sanctions may be a gift as you guys were just discussing but it may have also put the incoming
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president into a box. have to see what happens there. but president obama really moving to cement other parts of his legacy before he leaves office and with just 18 days before the inauguration, take a look at the list that we have compiled of some of the recent actions that he has taken in addition to punishing rusch for flvers with the le nver interfering with the leelection. then, of course there is the big battle that is on the horizon over obamacare. president obama heads to chill on wednesday where he is going to strategize with fellow democrats how to protect his signature piece of legislation with mr. trump vowing to repeal it. one more note. we learned earlier today that president obama is going to hold
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a farewell address in chicago next tuesday. joe? guys? back to you. >> very good. we talked about the tweet last night. sort of the tweet back and forth last night. one of the things that strikes me is what little sort of institutional memory or historical perspective so many people that are reporting have. you see so many things on twitter. somebody, i think last week, criticized barack obama for having -- making a farewell address. this is unprecedented. who does this? george washington? it started there. dwight eisenhower kind of had an important farewell address and warning americans about the military and industrial complex. i think it's a great thing to do. saying this is what i've done, dah, dah, dah. i mean, you can go too far. bill clinton when he got out of office, he hung out in washington for a couple of weeks. we all were waiting for him to
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leave. he just wouldn't leave. remember that? >> he had to get all of the silver ware! >> stop. a lot of silver ware. they had to send a brinks truck back. i think one of the most fascinating fights is not going to be russia at the beginning with republicans. i think it's going to be repeal of obamacare because these congressmen, congresswomen, senators got elected in 2010 promising to get rid of obamacare got elected in 2014 with massive landslides and donald trump has said you're not going to repeal it until you replace it. he knows and he hasn't said this to me, but he knows he's not going to win wisconsin next time. he is not going to win michigan next time and not win pennsylvania next time. if he repeals obamacare and
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doesn't have something at least as good as to replace it and republicans are going like this. what? what? you mean it's going to cost me? yes, it's going to cost money! >> obamacare is going to be in place for several years. >> in some shape or form, right. >> call it what you want to call it. improve it and call it trump care. >> it will be around because i know so many republicans who voted for donald trump, i love donald trump! i can't stand barack obama! they are are on obamacare! >> here is the question if you were donald trump and looking for running in reelection in 2020. would you find it acceptable for the congress to vote to repeal obamacare and come up with a replacement. >> no. >> three years later? we will cover replacement in, let's say, 2019? when you're about to run for reelection. >> not on your life. the democrats would have every
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right politically to kill it. they will drag their feet and kill it every step of the way just like republicans tried to do with obamacare. so unless you have the replacement right there waiting when you repeal it, it is a loser for donald trump and i would predict that it would kill any republican running in michigan, ohio, wisconsin, and pennsylvania. >> the way you can kick the can down the road and lots of ways to do it is phase out the repeal and promise you're going to keep the popular parts of the plan and start to pass things that republicans like more on health care to create a more robust market but they have to subsidize. >> they will end up paying for it. >> i got elected saying no hillary care and we are going to have health savings accounts and we are going to have this. no, no, no. all of that stuff does not add up for somebody making $45,000 with two kid! republicans going to want to go back and say, yeah, we are going
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to spend $10 billion a year subsidizing so we can call it trump care instead of obamacare. >> they have to. >> here is the real world of health care. >> they have to. they have no choice. i say this to my friends on capitol hill. you have no choice. you have to come up with a replacement before you repeal. >> the real world of health care is this. one small bottom line. if they repeal obamacare without replacing obamacare, they will keep the most popular parts but if you repeal it without replacing it, there will not be an emergency room in america that you'l be able to get into for an emergency because that becomes the family doctor. >> right. that becomes the family -- i tell you what else will happen too. and history doesn't repeat itself as mark twain says, but it does rhyme. go back to 1982. ronald reagan wins a massive landslide and they decide to skew around with social
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security. the very working class people. the white working class people and black working class people but the white working class people that voted overwhelmingly for donald trump, a huge sector of those voters are on obamacare. >> you will start to see cracks between trump and his own party very early on because we know donald trump is ready to spend more money than congress. >> and -- >> a different story. >> you cannot replace. you got to replace it if you're going to repeal it. i know republicans don't want to hear that on the hill but the reality. are they going to do anything in the first two years on deficit reduction? >> ask me again. >> are they -- >> no no no. the deficit is $5.6 trillion when george came in and 11.5 trillion when he left and 20 trillion when obama leaves. if you look at 9 direction this government is going it's at 30, 35 billion after eight years of donald trump.
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did i say billion? wouldn't that be awesome? >> a billion here and billion here. >> essentially no deficit. >> that would be like we are going to buy, like, the cubs with our deficit. no. really quickly. this is what you call a tease because we are answering it at the end. what the information that came out in wikileaks that shaked the outcome of the election? >> i think -- i don't think there is a single hack that mattered. it was -- what it was was a month of the news media reporting incessantly about each new supposed revolution from the podesta e-mails. the information flow. so much coverage of that stuff that there wasn't one thuing. the totality of them and the space they took up in that crucial period of the election. i'm not arguing, by the way, that it did influence the election and let donald trump win. >> what is interesting to me as the information was coming out,
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i said it real-time. what i read made me respect john podesta and everybody else a lot more, because they seemed to understand what hillary clinton's problems were and they were very straightforward and they were very angry at people who weren't straightforward. i actually got so much more respect for anita tanham and john podesta and the whole group of them easement i agree it was a drum beat but i think the top one she was saying you need a private position and public position. i think that hurt her with some people. >> i think it was the culmination. i think it reconfirmed for people who were skeptical that didn't like hillary clinton to have everything they didn't like about her. i don't think there was a smoking gun. >> in a year of change, i don't think anyone wikileaks mattered to her inability to connect with people and very underrated. i've always believed the deplorables thing was -- >> actually, i think that -- >> no one played by the rules but me. >> you found one! >> actually, i think yours is probably the worst.
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have you to have a public position and private position. i think that is probably worse. does everybody think it impacted -- anybody want to definitively say it impacted the outcome of the election? >> it did. >> john? >> it did but it shouldn't have been as close as it already was. >> what do you think? >> yeah. the weight of it all. >> you could say impact without saying impact decisively. not like it was the thing that made the difference. a lot of things made the difference and the larger force that mike is talking about and comey. >> i think one of a dozen things that fed into a narrative that she couldn't overcome. it was everday, from one thing from another to another. she could never get her balance. or visit wisconsin. sean spicer will join us straight ahead.
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with us now we got the incoming white house press secretary of state in communication director and current chief strategist and communication director for the republican national committee, sean spicer. thank you for being with us. happy new year. mike barnicle has the first
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question and with any luck he will ruin it with a tough question. >> that's right. we now now you're a big deal, mr. spicer. we were just talking during the break here. do you know what a quarter of milk costs at a cumberland farms in rhode island? >> no. i do what one costs in barrington island where i grew up. i don't hang out there. i can't afford it, mike. >> there you go. >> but great try. >> man of the people. >> i actually go to the cumby's down the road on route 6. >> that is a great one. >> this has -- >> sean, serious deal. has the president-elect of the united states received a full intelligence briefing yesterday? a full presidential briefing? >> sure. he receives them all the time. the question i think what you're getting at is with respect to this russian report and the answer is that report itself is not final according to the government and it won't be final
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until later this week. at that time he'll meet with the head of the intelligence community and get a full debrief on it. >> you had he has them all the time. how many has he had? >> he gets the pdb three times a week and briefing from his national security team daily. >> so he gets it -- so you're saying the intel community talked to him three times a week? >> yes. >> okay. just to be clear. the pbd is raw data that the intelligence comes at the president and says here are the actual data points that you need to understand. the national security team meets with him every day and synthesizes that data into actionable ideas and thoughts and says this is what is happening, this is what we think you need to consider. these are the decisions that i think you would have to make or the areas i think you need to be aware of. there is two different briefings that occur on a regular basis. one is the raw data. one is the analysis provided by the national security team. >> sean, is the president-elect open to the fact that russia
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could have hacked in to e-mails and tried to impact the election. >> of course he is open to. the question is not whether he is open to it or not but whether or not the intelligence suggests it is and whether or not the response that this administration has given is proportional to the activities it's taken or whether or not -- >> the head of the fbi and the cia both say they believe russia hacked into the dnc to try to impact the election. what else is he looking for? >> i think there is two issues. one is whether or not there was any discernible impact in the election which no one has seen any impact or any evidence to suggest that that occurred. but the second is -- again, this report that got issued last week, it's a 13-page report from the community that talks about malicious activity. and it reports that basically in most of the pages come to activities that the dnc in particular should take to protect their passwords, administrative rights, staff training. because they were a victim of what they call sphere phishing
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and people sent malicious e-mails and the folks at the dnc gave them their passwords and didn't have the appropriate i.t. support to make sure people wouldn't break into the system. what this report really does if you look at it details steps to be taken by political organizations and frankly most organizations to make sure that their staff is trained right, the administrative rights are appropriated and other things, all of the precautions are taken to make sure they don't get hacked but the fact of the matter is that that is vastly different. a lot of people out there probing. we all get e-mails from the ints prints of whatever asking for our passwords. people are trying all time to break into systems. >> i get it. he needed some money. a friend of mine, i don't know her, but she was actually stuck in kenya, i think. >> or europe. >> or europe. she only needed $40,000, mark. seemed like an easy ask. >> did you help her too? >> barnicle has that kind of money. >> he is loaded. >> during the campaign, donald trump proposed a form of tax reform. does he want congress to pass
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the plan he proposed during the campaign or negotiations going on now that might change that plan? >> of course, he wants the plan that he proposed. be he understan but he understands he has to sit down with progress and discuss it. he is committed to comprehensive tax reform and working with the house and senate leadership to enact that. >> sean back to the question about question and the election. the obama administration, obviously, last week announced some sanctions and some of which are public and some of which we don't know about. you suggested the other day you thought they might have gone too far and some people think they didn't go far enough. what is the argument for the notion that they may have been out of proper portion to the crime committed or allegedly to have been committed? >> i want to make it clear where the president-elect stands on this. hacking is not tolerated. it is not something that we condone. it's illegal and should be condemned at at all costs. the sanction are at an all-time what this country has ever done
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in peace time and kicking out 35 people and closing two sites and various other sanctions their imposed. here is the question i have. if when the chinese, a year ago in april of 2015, hacked over millions of personal information records of people who have or did work in the government and the only response the u.s. government was to send former and current employees a letter saying you can get free credit monitoring a year, the question has to be asked was this response proportional to the act committed and he, two, is it more political than diplomatic? because in september of this year, president obama revealed that he told vladimir putin, quote, knock it off. so if he knew back then that something was happening, why did they wait to do anything publicly from the u.s. government? was it because they thought hillary clinton was definitely going to win and they didn't want to do anything? the only action they seemed to have taken is after hillary clinton didn't win the way they all thought it was going to go they realized we have to do something. the questions has to get asked why did they wait?
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are these sanctions proforcing portion to the act committed but why the chinese get away taking of people's information and put on security clearance and not one public statement from the white house condemning action or taking any action. zero said then when millions of people had their most sensitive information stolen by the chinese and yet in this case, when it's political and it was the dnc, they act. >> but isn't the fact that china didn't really use that information but russia weaponized the information they used? >> hold on. let's be clear. the idea millions of people had their most sensitive information taken and not a statement is put out! not one thing from the white house gets done! and in this case, you know, there is this allegation of what russia did, yet they expel 35 people and close down two sites and a series of additional sanctions. that is more than ever happened in american history -- at least in the modern day.
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no one is asking that question. at some point someone has to say to the dnc-- excuse me. the white house what justifies this? maybe it is. i'm not questioning that a i don't have the intelligence. what i'm suggesting to you is is that to go to this magnitude and suggest that -- or at least it raises the question of whether the actions are more political than they are diplomatic. >> all right, sean spicer. thank you so much. i do think that this white house is going to be asked a lot of questions. as you said, john heilemann, going to be asked a lot of questions as we move forward as this investigation unwinds. sean spicer, thank you so much for being with us. we will be right back and analyze that in a moment.
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destroy it, and go to barnicle's. >> barnicle's got a barn. >> yeah, and it's physically removed from the main property. >> that's good. i need that. so let's bring in the columnist for "time" magazine, eddy cloud jr.. >> mr. chairman? >> we are getting you, verified in 2017 -- >> that hasn't happened? >> no! you know why it hasn't happened? because twitter's racist. >> why is it so hard to do that? >> racist. >> no. >> endemically so. >> they're anti-academic. >> yeah, with maybe they're anti-academic. >> i'm an elitist, i'm a snob. >> why would you not be verified? >> i don't know. i don't even know what that means, still. >> i just can't believe you're not verified. >> what that means is that you -- >> yeah, we'll talk about --
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>> so we had sean spicer on, who, by the way, our takeaway from that interview is he really doesn't know what a quart of milk in rhode island costs. >> sean, if you know it now, tweet the answer. >> how much does it cost? >> at the cumberland pharmacy in massachusetts right across the border, it's a buck 79. >> that's pretty good. >> it's coupumby's milk. >> that's great. so a bigger issue, elise, your takeaway on what he said about. >> he's bringing up the china deal. when we talked about earlier today, we have to put all of this in perspective, not to discount what the russians did, but to explain to americanshat sort of war we're in, not just with russia, but with china, but with allies in israel, all across the board. people are constantly hacking. they're listening to our phone conversations. and he brought up this china deal and asked, is that a fair
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question? >> well, he was trying to equate it as if saying, oh, this was disproportionate, meaning, does that mean that he actually agrees with the obama administration having a somewhat muted response on the china hacking? it doesn't make any sense his logic and argument there, just because conservatives have been arguing and the rnc for years has been saying obama's inaction has led the word to be in a more dangerous place, because of not acting. so then to use that reticence to act as a pro oh, we shouldn't be o doing these sanctions. the logic befuddles me. >> yeah, the president said knock it out, and the sean spicer saying the president should have done more than that if he was so concerned. >> i think there are going to be serious questions to be asked. why didn't president obama and the administration intervene earlier. >> why don't you think he did? >> i think mike was right in the earlier segment, he probably thought he wou p his thumb on the scale and impact the election. and driven the direction or the assumed course of the election -- >> hillary clinton was going to
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win anyway. >> right. and what i'm really struck by in the conversation is thathe president of the united states, the president who has sworn to protect this country, has decided, based on the intelligence that he has received, that sanctions are warranted. d we are questioning, right, whether orot that is true. whether or not the russians have actually impacted our elections. the president of the united states has received the intelligence and has acted on it. so the actual act of questioning whether or not it happened, just seems to me really bizarre. >> so i'm wondering, so, there's another argument, too, again, i talked earlier in the show listening to npr report, where they're talking about the alleged hacking by russians. the fbi, the cia, and the president of the united states. >> why is president-elect trump siding with vladimir putin on twitter over a hostile foreign power over the president-elect of the united states? i really find it troubling. and i think he's going to run into problems in january when he gets in office with other
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republicans. >> and i should say this. the china question was really important, about millions of folks, but this is a hack around our elections. it goes to kind of the fundamental -- one of the fundamental moments, ritual practices in our process. and so, to -- i mean -- >> there's another thing he brought up, and i know we have to go. they're yelling at us that we've got to go. mark, sean was talking about a report, a final report that's coming out later this week. can you enlighten us on that? >> well, president obama's ordered this report done. he seemed to suggest that that reporter, at least a version of it, was going to be part of the briefing that presint-elect tr is going to get the middle of this week. >> so at that point, maybe we will be able to take the alleged -- >> you asked the right question. is he open to it? >> is he open to it? he sounded like he might have been in the new year's eve interview. >> and sean said he was. >> so we'll see. >> all right. hopefully, americans can see what's in that report.
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because we're getting a leak from here, a leak from the cia. a pen flying there. a leak from the fbi. i would like to actually see the documents. and i ink we have a right to see the documents, if it's this important, we need to see 'em. so we can judge ourselves. all right, still ahead on "morning joe, "-- how am i doing first two hours on talking less? >> you wouldn't want to see the stopwatch. oh,, no, is it bad? >> the jury is not out. >> when we come back -- we need a stopwatch. that's what we need. we need a soccer referee here. turn it on when i talk. >> or a chess club. >> we need metrics. "morning joe" will be back. how was that?
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good morning. it's monday, january the 2nd. what are we doing working on january the 2nd. >> it's a federal holiday. >> school's open. katie couric's working. >> are schools open? >> no. school's not open. it's a federal holiday. >> schools are open. >> we can tell you don't have a kid yet. >> some are out. >> this is, i'm sure, a violation of labor law of some kind. >> this is. a sweat shop. by the way, 2017, going to be very -- >> as they say in massachusetts, a big year. >> when's the day? >> a couple weeks. >> oh, my gosh.
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>> so, mika has the morning off, south of france and all that. john heilemann here. also veteran columnist and msnbc contributor -- >> legendary! >> did you see that tweet last night? >> i love that tweet. that's incredible. >> what'd you do new year's eve? >> not a whole lot. just kind of chitchatted. and also contributing editor to "time" magazine, msnbc political analyst and former aide to the george w. bush white house and state departments, elise jordan! >> soon-to-be legendary. >> do you have photoshop on that -- >> i did that myself. you got the photoshop out and we're doing a little new year's day -- >> he knows a lot about computers. >> i love that stuff. >> i use couriers now. >> you've got to see that tweet. it was incredible. >> did you like that one? >> if i could have retweeted it twice, i would have. >> did you retweet it once? >> of course. >> look at that. >> show the class. >> legendary, right there. >> hold on. >> i've got to retweet it. >> here you go. what's mike barnicle, everybody?
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>> legendary! >> oh, that's awful. >> and you put him in like the baghdad of like vermont or something. >> yeah. it's -- it looks like the state of new jersey or wisconsin. >> he's a classic. >> so let's go around the table and just see what everybody did on new year's eve. how was your new year's eve, mike? >> it was fantastic. i was asleep by 9:30. fell asleep watching movies. >> that sounds exciting. >> around 10:30. >> watching movies? >> watching movies, drinking champagne. to be honest, reading, no movies. boring! >> no, that sounds great. >> what about you? >> dinner and fell asleep watching "the crown." >> did you make it? >> no, but they set off fireworks in central park at midnight. woke me up. >> what would did you do? >> we were home and got to see mariah carey. >> so you all missed, live and
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in person, the kids and i were horrified at -- >> it was incredible! >> what they did to a legend. >> it was a dumpster fire. >> yeah. i just -- we seriously kept looking at it, going, what, this is -- this is actually on television. >> i can't believe it. >> and how many millions of people were watching new year's rocking eve and this was their main act. >> oh, mariah. >> play it. >> yeah, let's see. >> just walking down. >> well, happy new year! we can't hear it, but, i'll just be there for the moment, all right. >> she literally -- it was remarkable. >> listening to a mariah carey. >> she listened for three minutes and it was really great when her lead vocal came in, and she just started shaking hands
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with people. >> yeah. >> apparently, it was sabotage. >> is that what mariah's saying now? >> that's what -- >> it's a plot against her. >> she had a rough year. her fiancee broke up, her marriage broke up. poor mariah. >> there's -- get the "new york post" there -- >> a plot against mariah. i'm thinking putin. >> surrounded by plots. >> i'm thinking putin. >> joe, what'd you do new year's eve? >> what was your new year's -- >> it's been undercovered. >> it has been undercovered. >> but in this case, under the radar. >> what'd you do? >> as you know, because of the tweeters last night, well, actually, there was one, said that i partied with trump all night. like straight out of a kiss thing. a rock 'n' roll -- >> what was his evidence of that. >> -- all night and partied all day. >> what was his evidence? >> there was none. there was a "new york times"
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article that said i was among the revelers at trump's party. >> that was at mar-a-lago, right? >> yes. >> that's in florida. so "the new york times" called you and asked you if you had been amongst the revelerses and you denied it? >> nobody called me to ask me anything. >> really? >> yeah. >> but you were on the property? you were in mar-a-lago? that's accurate. >> that is accurate. >> so what happened was, we had a meeting at 7:00. i guess he wanted to meet with us before. we were calling, trying to set up an interview. >> as journalists do. >> well, judging from the response they get every time i meet with anybody associated with him, no journalists have ever done this before. "60 minutes" has never gone to a president or a principle or "the new york times" and we know tom brokaw never did and we know bradley never did. so we went and had a good 15 to 20-minute talk with him.
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but everybody was in their tuxes and it was all wonderful, and you know, silver stallone -- >> did you feel -- you weren't wearing a tux? >> i did. but as we said before, my kids and i have stayed at mar-a-lago four or five years in a row. and then he had the bad taste to run for president of the united states and suddenly it became a terrible thing, so we didn't stay this year. but, yeah, went in, talked to him, but, yeah, every -- there was only one entrance. and so we had to walk in, you know -- >> amidst the revelers. >> amidst the revelers. underdressed, of course. everybody's in tuxes -- >> so just for the record? >> so we marched around sort of the perimeter of the revelers. this was pre-reveling. i think the party started later inside, wherever they went. and then we walked up to the stairs and kind of hid, because we were underdressed for about 30 seconds and marched upstairs and talked to the
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president-elect for about 15 to 20 minutes. >> so you were off the property at what time? >> oh, my gosh. if i were there at -- we probably were delayed, probably got there around 7:30, probably off the property by 7:50. >> okay. did you wear any funny hats? >> no funny hats. >> blow any noise makers? >> no noise makers. >> did you kiss anyone under mistletoe -- >> well, yes, but i didn't know mike barnicle was going to be there, too, and it seemed like the thing to do. no, no reveling, if that's what you're asking. but, yeah, it is interesting, isn't it, that -- i guess it's not. people are always -- it's the age of twitter. but i have made a new year's resolution. that anybody following me on twitter knows that i've already broken the first rule. my public media resolutions are, one, i'm going to talk about something on this show, so i better shut up, soon. >> doing great on that so far. >> two, is, i'm going to listen
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more. i'm just, you know, i'm just not going to let people lie about me. i'm not going to be mean about it, and as soon as they say, okay, we admit. like, the guy last night said, do you mischaracterize -- that was fine. i'm good with him. i don't even know who he is. so i'm fine with it. but i'm not going to let him lie, because they've been lying for a year or so. you know about this. >> i'm familiar with it. and people will go, why do you meet on new year's eve, somebody from -- i forget. well, how outrageous that you met him there on new year's eve at 7:00. well, it's not like i could be c.w. mccall and, you know, do convoy, crash the gates doing 98 and say, let them truckers roll 10-4. i would get a bullet between my head. you go and meet the president-elect when the staff says you can meet the president-elect. anyway, we had a good interview, and with any luck, hopefully, bygones will be bygones and we'll get an interview. >> didn't president obama hold a
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lot of off-the-records with reporters. and i do feel like there's a republican/democrat double standard here. and i have mixed feelings on the off-the-record some of the times. i get why they do it, but at the same time, what are you sacrificing -- you know, it's a double-edge sword. >>ly tell you, and i've said this all along. we -- mika and i have known and have been friends with donald trump for a decade. 10, 11 years. things got obviously very rough during the campaign, but i told everybody, when they were making up stories about us sitting down and hanging out with him watching returns, said, the irony of this is, nobody ever reported this, that mika and i spent more time, consecutively, with barack obama at the oval office one on one than we ever did with donald trump. which was like 90 minutes, straight, talking politics. it was all off the record. but if somebody, as journalists know, and barack obama -- i can
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name a thousand people who have done the same thing or have actually done more than what i did the other night, trying to set up an interview. but if the president of the united states says come to the white house and talk to us for 90 minutes, this is, of course, all off the record, but i want to give you perspective, and obama does that all the time, as do most presidents, you go. i think. >> well, that actually gets to a larger issue, doesn't it? does anybody here at this table think that there's a disabling going forward within the media that if you do things like this, if you have an off-the-record meeting with donald trump, you will be accused within the media, by your colleagues, by some of your colleagues, of normalizing donald trump. >> is there a danger of that? >> no, there's a fact of that. >> that happens every day. if you write, as i did this weekend, an article for "the washington post," where you're simply trying to put things in context. so readers will have a better
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understanding, there's a total meltdown from the west, who says, you're trying to normalize him, you're trying to normalize. when, in fact, no, you're actually just doing your job. >> no, it's not just trump, though. it happened, you know, famously this year in the wikileaks e-mails. there was an e-mail that came out that noted the fact that a whole bunch of journalists, including us, had gone to an off-the-record dinner at joel benson's house in the summer of 2015. where they had invited dozens of people. basically everyone who had covered politics in new york. >> we saw you there. >> everybody went and had a drink. >> like every single other campaign. >> and i drank at the benson campaign. iced tea. >> and every campaign has had things like this for the entire time we've ever covered politics. and yet, it's not just liberals who are accusing people of normalizing trump. we spent months after those wikileaks e-mails with everyone on the right accusing us of being complicit somehow with the clinton campaign for having gone
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and had an off-the-record drink with joel benson, which is nuts. this is how journalism and politics works. there are off-the-record dinners, off-the-record luncheons, and off-the-record drinks. everyone has done it forever and will do it forever in the future. >> has done it forever. ben bradley was extraordinarily close to jfk and everybody that worked in washington. he was also legendary -- well, not as legendary as you -- but as about historic of an editor as there has been. i mean, incredible. katherine graham, good friends with nancy reagan and ronald reagan. had dinner -- this stuff happens all the time. tom brokaw, you know, he's probably been out hunting with every member of the supreme court. ju you know, jay-z. the guy gets around. he knows everybody. it's what happens. and the question is, elise, how do you respond to that? are you suckered into it? are you whatever?
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and, of course, anybody that watches this show knows and i say it all the time, we get paid for speaking our mind. and that's why, you know, we predicted he was going to win the primary, but things got really ugly when he started talking about the muslim ban and judge curiel and everything else and the david duke stuff, i could not have been any harsher. and it will be the same thing going forward. >> i think that's -- >> you just call it like you have to see it. >> -- the audiences have to judge. the audiences are there. they know they're getting a load of bs. but what is going to be the big question for media going forward covering trump is, this is someone who breaks all the norms. there are certain norms that the press respects, that the president respects, and how, if he continually breaks all of those norms, how does the press respond? things just like, the press does not report on the children of presidents -- >> right. >> they shouldn't. that's something that's accepted in the press corps. trump keeps breaking all these
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norms, is he going to be protected by those norms? >> no. and i think the problem is, right now, this is and something for the media to worry about in the new year. i'm not worried about it. i'm completely content and you can look at my transcripts every day and you can read my "washington post" articles through the year. you know, i'm going to keep telling it the way i see it. and that's why more people watch "morning joe" last year than ever before. it went well. and people said, was it -- oh, trump, trump. no, we spent -- ask donald trump. we spent 90% of the campaign bashing him. but the thing is, people knew they could tune in and would speak our mind, no matter what it was. but the real danger for the media right now, they're all going, oh, he's going to lock us up in jail. here are the press -- no, the problem is, everybody is so obsessed and he's gotten into their head so much and they're so worried about normalizing him, they aren't doing their jobs. they aren't digging in deep enough, not just to, oh, vladimir putin's coming over to take us over.
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they're not asking enough questions about, okay, well, what about this relationship with russia? and i personally, i'm very uneasy about the relationship with russia. i will tell you and our meeting was sort of semi-off-the-record, but i can say this, one of the things donald trump talked about was russia. and i just sort of asked him off-hand, okay, i just don't -- i understand what you're doing with mexico. and that is, it's all, he's setting up negotiations. i understand what he's doing with china. setting up negotiations. and he's got really smart, you know, people coming in, whether you're talking about willbert ross or talking about half of the people from goldman sachs. and they're figuring out, they're digging into the deals. i get all of that. but i don't get the russian thing. and if we do the interview, that's one of the things i'm going to really press you on. and he said, and i really haven't seen any articles even suggesting this.
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he said, you know, the last two presidents have tried to push russia into a corner. and you know, under bush, putin invaded georgia. under obama, he invaded ukraine, crimea. and he said, and i thought this was interesting, he said, the worst thing barack obama ever did was call them a regional power. because, for decades, everybody's been saying that their foreign policy is driven by what? resentment. and he said, so let's see. let's see what happens if we go out there and are positive. it can't be much worse than it was over the past eight years. and if it is, then we'll correct. >> well, you sort of are going around a central point that is on the next read, that's on the teleprompter here. the media, unfortunately, large parts of the media, not all of the media, have spent so much time obsessing over his tweets
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to the exclusion of, have you received a full intelligence briefing yet, mr. president-elect? and you realize, when you think about it, that donald trump is playing us. >> yes. >> quite successfully. quite successfully. because i don't know, not that i should, just me, whether he has received a full intelligence briefing. i don't know that he's fully addressed even in part, the relationship with russia that he hopes to find going forward. >> right. >> we don't know any of that. but we know every single tweet. we know all about the tweets. >> yeah. >> but when he's not having press conferences, we're so dependent. he is -- >> he's playing us. >> he controls the forum. >> yeah. >> which, again, it's -- we've seen less and less access to presidents in the past. it's going to be very interesting to see what happens once the white house gets set up. but, you are right, though. like, those tweets, he sends out a tweet and it dominates news coverage for three or four days.
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it's like, look at the bright shiny object, look at the bright -- and everyone looks at the bright, shiny object. >> he does not need us. >> so john, what do you think about going into 2017, what does the press need to do better than it's doing? or do you think it's doing -- on the issue -- on the issue of donald trump in particular. because right now, there seems to be a lot of sound and fury signifying nothing coming from both sides. and quite frankly, a lot of good journalists getting embarrassed, getting out ahead of themselves on stories that end up not being exactly right. >> well, i think that -- well, certainly, trying to avoid falling into the trap of making obvious errors of fact is a huge element, but i think, you know, to go to elise's point about norms, i think the people have got to be -- to have the same attitude towards trump that they
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would have had towards any other president who took -- who won. whether it was hillary clinton, or if there had been some other candidate. which is to hold them accountable in the most fierce and relentless way possible. and that means remembering what those norms are and the standards are. not having either grading him on a curve in either direction, which is to say, allowing him to behave in ways that are -- allowing him to draw up a new set of rules and behave in ways that are outside the conventions of what we expect from a president of the united states. and either have been too tough on him or being too weak on him. just being -- like, doing our jobs. >> such an important point. because what happened with obama is that he was allowed to get away with being the toughest president ever, cracking down on journalists, on abusing executive authority. and now that trump has that power, the mainstream media isn't as comfortable with it. >> i think our job is the same as it's always been. but remembering what that is is really important. and a lot of people have lost
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sight of what the actual job should be. >> you're exactly right. the media, for the most part and i absolutely love the media. i love reading "the new york times" and "the washington post" and wall street -- i love it. it's like, it's -- maybe it's why i can talk about it for three hours a day, because i love it and i love the people that write it and i love the editors. it's fascinating to me. and i say this with love, they've gotten -- he's gotten into their heads and they've gotten out of the game. instead of, please, stop writing stories about how he's an autocrat that is going to start a nuclear war. instead,ay, he has aointed this the most conservative cabinet sie 1928. and talk about what his nominee for the epa believes. and for the labor department. what he believes. and talk about the policies that are going to actually impact people's lives. he is not going to be hitler, but he does have a lot of people around him who don't believe in
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climate change. that's the story, because that is an actual real challenge. not a republican rice tag starting in washington. >> got to do the stories that affect the real lives of real people and hold him accountable. we have to make sure he adheres to ethics. what we can't do is overcover ways he deviate t from the norm that don't really affect the real lives of really people. because that could be the entire coverage. he's going to behave in a way through twitter and the way he conducts himself, unlike any president ever has. if we obsess over that and only cover that, not hold him accountable for policy or ethics, it will be a huge mistake. >> and in order to do our jobs, as john pointed out, in order to do our jobs the way we should do it, the way we, you know, would have done it and have done with it barack obama and past presidents is to, for many of us in the media, get over being stunned at the fact that donald trump is going to be president of the united states. get over it! >> get over it! do your job.
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just do your job and they just haven't been able to do it. look at the policies, look at what he said. if he tweets something out, at some point, understand. >> maybe if we would have gotten over, we would have figured out, do you or do you not trust your intelligence people. do you or do you not trust them? that's a huge question. >> how many stories have you read on the front page of t"the new york times" or "wall street journal" about his epa selection or his labor selection. and what's happening with rex tillerson right now. i mean, there's so -- what about the supreme court nomination? there should be an obsession on that. >> what about hhs and medicare? come on! >> yeah, the department of hhs. there are so many things that donald trump has already put out there that are going to majorly disrupt american politics. and they're freaking out about tweets and saying that he's going to be a nazi that's
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autocratic and is going to throw journalists in jail. no, that was barack obama that threw journalists in jail. i don't know if donald trump will follow that lead, but there are a lot more issues out there -- again, i cannot believe what coverage there's been about the fact that he's going to select a supreme court justice that could overturn roe v. wade. that's a little significant, didn't it? >> you did very well on your new year's resolution to talk less. >> okay, so y'all ask me questions. this is all the talking -- i've got tape over my mouth. by the way, can i just say, a point of personal privilege -- >> that's a fair -- >> i do want to thank everybody for last year. watching and it was "morning joe's" biggest year. i wish willie and mika were here, but they're still obviously out celebrating. >> willie's drunk. >> i always say, appreciate your patience. we really appreciate your patience. you guys, it's amazing, and all
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the people that come up to us, halperin and heilemann can't walk down the street without being hugged. >> pity, what we have to put up with. >> having to be here, i know. >> still ahead on "morning joe," isis is reportedly claiming responsibility for this weekend's attack at a popular istanbul nightclub. we'll get the very latest on the manhunt for the gunman. also this morning, the pentagon is issuing a new warning to north korea over its most recent threat to test a long-range missile. we're going live to washington for the latest on that when "morning joe" returns. this is the goal post. the end zone. the goal of every team. we know you have goals. like getting exposure for your idea or business. with godaddy website builder, you can easily create an awesome mobile-friendly, get you more exposure website. we call that...a website builder touchdown. get your free trial of website builder now.
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barrel, stormed inside the club and opened fire on the roughly 600 partygoers. a police source is telling nbc news that around 120 bullets were fired, at least 39 people dead, and officials saying 28 are foreign nationals. 69 more injured, including an american. and in a newly released surveillance video, you can see bullets ricocheting off cars as the gunman runs down the sidewalk. in the other video, which was released in slow motion, you can see people hide for cover and a dog run away as the gunman begins to open fire just outside the club before he enters. the white house has condemned the, quote, horrific terrorist attack. and with us now live from istanbul, nbc news chief foreign correspondent, richard engel. richard, tell us first of all what the latest is on the manhunt, but also, this is just another in a long string of terror attacks aimed at turkey.
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can you explain to our viewers exactly why turkey has become such a target this year? >> reporter: absolutely. first on the manhunt, the problem is the militant managed to escape. he was wearing a black jacket. he was wearing a backpack. he went into this club called reina, which is a little bit further down this street, which police have opened up. and after he was shooting at the people inside for about seven to ten minutes, he dropped his weapons, took off his coat, and left while people were escaped, injured and terrified people. and isis has now claimed responsibility and the fear here is that with every hour that passes, it's more difficult to find him, because he could cross the turkish border and enter into syria, into isis territory, where it would be much more difficult to track him down. still, a dragnet is up. there are extra security checkpoints. there is really a nationwide
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search on for this particular militant. police have released a very blurry photograph of him, but no name. the question -- the second question, why turkey? why now? why so many isis attacks? frankly, for several years, this country was the main transit route for isis, for foreign fighters, particularly, to come through turkey, to sometimes stay here for a little while, and then go into syria to join the so-called islamic state. they felt comfortable here. some of the isis fighters had their families here. they established this as something of a safe haven. the problem is now, turkey has made this alliance with russia, also an alliance with the united states, and is fighting isis. so the group is retaliating and we're seeing them attack the airport, if you remember. there have been numerous attacks in the city itself. and this, perhaps one of the most chilling attacks, just on civilians, on tourists and partygoers, who were celebrating
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new year's eve. it's going to be very damaging to the national psyche, also the economy. >> richard engel, thank you so much in istanbul, as always. coming up on "morning joe," president obama has publicly pledged to help donald trump and his team transition into the white house. but is a president at the same time putting the strategic roadblocks up along the way? white house correspondent for "the new york times," michael shere, is reporting on that question and he joins us straight ahead, along with historian, jon meacham. your insurance company won't replace
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we're back with john heilemann and princeton university's eddie gloud jr. joining the conversation, pulitzer prize winning historian, jon meacham, in washington, courthouse correspondent for "the new york times," michael shere, and here, on set -- >> oh, my god! >> joe scarborough. >> i told them to -- i wanted to play the mariah carey thing again. >> oh, that's good. yeah. >> we asked meacham -- >> sabotage. >> what's the historical impact of that? ask meacham? >> here it is. jon meacham, here's the cover of the "new york post," this morning's "new york post," "plot against mariah". what say you, sir? give me history's --
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>> ah, historically, jon meacham, what great event in u.s. history was there a plot ever so diabolical that it actually tore away the very fabric of this great republic? >> you know, when i watched it, i was thinking about the newburgh conspiracy. >> yes, yes. >> which is, what i think you all were thinking about. they wanted to make george washington king and he played his role and stepped back. that was in the 1780. that was what came to me when i was watching dick clark's, what is it, "rocking eve"? >> it's funny, when mariah carey was on, my phone rang, and joe was on the phone and said cinninatus. and i said, joe, are you drunk? >> no, she wants to work on her form. and they won't leave her alone. they keep trying to make her a
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pop star. >> i was about to fall asleep and then looked at twitter and saw a tweet from you talking about it. you retweeted somebody saying, isis took responsibility or claimed responsibility for it. >> i called them bastards. it was a dumpster fire, the kind of dumpster fire you would expect to end 2016. a perfect coday to a terrible year. michael shere's recent piece looks not at mariah carey, so we're not really sure why he is here, but he instead looks at president obama and whether he's aiding the donald trump transition, and also while aiding the trump transition, how he's putting up policy roadblocks along the way. michael, i'm so glad you're here, because i do wonder how many -- how many of these acts are almost like a dying king making orders for his minions that will be wiped away the first day the king is, you know, the new king comes in.
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and how many of them actually are going to stick around long enough to really cause a roadblock for donald trump? >> well, happy new year, joe. >> happy new year. did you see mariah? >> i didn't. i was wondering whether you asked trump about mariah when you were at the party the other night? >> well, no -- it happened afterwards, unfortunately. >> i know. >> there was -- so groundhog's day and "ghostbusters" and mariah, in between that meeting. but we'll get him on the air and we'll ask him. >> but, to your point, joe, look, there are some of these things that are going to be wiped away immediately, right? there are some things that donald trump -- >> like which ones? >> well, for example, some of the executive orders that, you know, that the president takes. look, the sanctions on russia are things that are largely executive orders and if the new president comes in, if donald trump comes in, he can take a different path. >> what about the arctic drilling restrictions? >> the arctic drilling is different. that's a legally -- i mean, look, that's going to be fought over in the courts probably for
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years. that's something that a very old law, more than a half century old law says that a president can do and it becomes permanent. there's also, you know, look, there's other things that, when the president does -- takes actions on, you know, for example, the stuff on obamacare, which you guys have already talked about, those are things that the president has done and that they can put in roadblocks that the new president is going to take a long time dealing with congress to do. so, you know, some of these things are going to be easier than others, but clearly, ft. is goi going to work until the last minute of the last day to try to keep things from happening. >> jon meacham? >> sir. >> how are you doing today? >> i'm well, thank you. i was at suwannee-a-lago over the weekend. >> that is fantastic. fantastic.
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so, yeah, there seemed to be some marbury v. madison, actually, one of the most important supreme court cases ever, actually, involved last minute actions by one president. this has been going on obviously for 230 years or so. >> right. yeah, that's the thing. when you have a transfer of power from party to party, you tend to get these kind of moments. and you know this, from congress, you know in state legislatures it's called the signee-die moment. you're heading towards the end of the session, putting everything you possibly can in appropriations bills and everything to get it done. it may be undone, but it makes the outgoing administration feel better and some things may stick. so i don't think we should be surprised. john adams started it in the fist transfer of power from one party to another. and so, i think it will be -- it does give trump some fairly, you
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know, hanging curveballs to hit. but one thing i want to say is just -- and i think you mentioned this earlier, you know, this is actually a really remarkable historical moment. because what's going to happen on january 20th is not just the executive branch is going to be transformed, but the judiciary branch because of the supreme court seat. >> wow. i know, think, two-thirds of the government has the capacity to be radically changed in about 18 days. >> boy, and a lot of judicial openings below the supreme court. it's going to be quite a transformation. >> and joe, let me just say, too, there are a lot of positions in the government that are beyond the judiciary, but -- and that are beyond the top positions that we've all been talking about. and, you know, president obama is trying to fill a lot of these boards and commissions, things that have terms that crossover presidential tenures. and that, you know, that's the kind of thing that president
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trump can't necessarily kick these people off of these boards and commissions and panels and that kind of thing. so t more that obama can get done now, the less freedom that president trump will have when he gets into office. >> and eddie, also, one thing that i don't think none of us are talking about enough is the power of bureaucracy. to tie up the most powerful people in government. robert gates, bob gates said that he -- even though he served seven presidents, at his last job as sec def for barack obama and george w. bush, he said, i was quite awe every day that the bureaucrats were keeping my schedule so busy that itayed out of their way. and he talked about the extraordinary power of bureaucrats to actually act as a leveling wind on everybody. >> i think that's true. and i think one of the things that need to do is put this into context and you've been emphasizing context all morning. hoover wouldn't even talk to fdr in '32.
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eisenhower in effect handed kennedy the bay of pigs. we can talk about in effect george w. bush, right, and the arms agreement, the forces agreement with prime minister of iraq binding him. soart of what we have to ask ourselveis how unusual is this? or is this the order of the day in terms of these transition moments? >> john machin meacham, is this order of the day? >> i think so. i think what you have with president obama makes sense. he's president until the 20th. he argued on the campaign trail that trump lacks the temperament and the discipline to be president. so why should we be surprised that he'srying to make as much of his executive power as he possibly can? now, it's a complicated game he's playing, because he's also trying to argue that he's cooperating, i think there's been speculation that he wanted to stay on the right side of tru trump, so that trump might, in fact, reach out to him going forward. i think given the fact they're now tweeting against each other is probably not a sign.
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i will say, you know, truman and ike never did that. but there's still time. >> i will tell you that truman and ike's relationshi was not quite as positive right now as barack obama's and dond trump's. >> true. >> i think it's actually right now much better than anybody would have expected, but we'll see. michael shere, please come back very soon. and we will have you back immediately after you write that mariah carey story. we're waitin we're waiting for that one. jon meacham, as always, thank you so much. and thank you so much for not bringing up any obscure war from the 1800s. >> cinncinatus. everybody should know that story. still ahead, north korea threatens an intercontinental ballistic missile test and the pentagon this morning is responding. thank you, pentagon. that's the sort of thing you would want from your pentagon. >> how? how are they responding? >> a live report, next.
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claim that the country is close to testing an intercontinental ballistic missile. let's bring in right now, a man who requested before to speak about the mariah carey performance on new year's eve. nbc news pentagon correspondent, hans nichols. hans, we're going to ask you, you can talk about mariah if you want to, but first, can you tell us what the pentagon's saying about north korea's latest threat? >> reporter: this is pretty standard from the pentagon. and i'll be honest, there have been so many missile tests or talks of missile tests from north korea, when this statement came out, i actually missed it. it's not that big of a deal that the pentagon is putting out a statement declaring, talking about provocative actions. the big question you get in the intelligence community and the pentagon on north korea and nuclear weapons is, one, have they miniaturized a weapon. and about two to three weeks ago a senior official have told me the assessment is they have miniaturized a weapon to put on to an icbm. and the other challenge is have they figured out reentry on that
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missile? those are the big questions at the pentagon in terms of does north korea have this capability? one thing i would note, senior intelligence official, senior military official told me a few weeks ago, special forces have contingency planning for north korea for this very purpose. >> so hans, let's strip it down very quickly. for what you just said, for people who haven't followed this story too closely, what that means is, if they have that capability, that means in the next few years, they could possibly hit seattle, portland, san francisco with nuclear weapons? >> yeah, that's why when you ask anyone at the pentagon, what keeps you up at not? it's not syria, it's not china. to a person, they always respond, north korea. the second one, they would say, india, pakistan, that also keeps them up. but this is one of their key concerns there. a little bit on russia, just what's happening now. some special forces have been moved into the battltics, and commanders are there.
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and the pentagon wis being very public about this. >> don't you think hans did his job adequately? >> it's time for him to move on to mariah carey. >> all right, let's move on to mariah carey. what's the pentagon's reaction to what happened new year's eve and what do they think it's going to mean for readiness in 2017? >> well, clearly, this is going to go back to either the war of roses or the guy/fox plot. you think of like syria's historic analyses, meacham is better than all of us on that. but he didn't dust off any of his old english history. >> exactly! >> remember, the fifth of november! we were also thinking about that. >> always, yes. >> hans, what's -- you know, you think meacham maybe needs to get out of tennessee every once in a while. >> maybe he's not a proper anglofile. maybe he doesn't hear tan english accent and get intimidated. >> can you imagine what mad dog is going to do? >> he's going to get to the
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bottom of the plot. right, eddie, you're verified? you want that to happen, right? alex is cutting me off now. verify this man! ut moving forwad not back. it's looking up not down. it's feeling up thinking up living up. it's being in motion... in body in spirit in the now. boost. it's not just nutrition. it's intelligent nutrition. with 26 vitamins and minerals and 10 grams of protein. all in 3 delicious flavors. it's choosing to go in one direction... up. boost. be up for it. explore your treatment options with specialists who treat only cancer. every stage... every day.... at cancer treatment centers of america. learn more at cancercenter.com/experts
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but everybody gets dry skin. feel moisturized without feeling your moisturizer with lubriderm. absorbs in seconds. moisturizes for hours. lubriderm. every body care. what are you doing? getting your quarter back. fountains don't earn interest, david. you know i work at ally. i was being romantic. you know what i find romantic? a robust annual percentage yield that's what i find romantic. this is literally throwing your money away. i think it's over there. that way? yeah, a little further up. what year was that quarter?
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what year is that one? '98 that's the one. you got it! nothing stops us from doing right by our customers. ally. do it right. let's get out of that water.
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final thoughts. eddie? final thoughts? >> final thoughts on reading the front page of "the washington post" and "new york times" about the congressional agenda for the upcoming year, and i want to ask, are there -- is there anything in that agenda that
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will speak to the suffering of everyday ordinary working people in this country? and the answer, on my part, is absolutely not. >> john heilemann? >> wow. >> that's a good way to start 2017. >> it's like on a federal holiday, eddie comes in just bringing, you know, guns blazing. >> 98-mile-an-hour fastballs, right under the chin. >> should be verified. >> i miss this guy. >> we love him. >> i just realize how much -- >> i missed him. in the past tense. >> we're getti ting him verifie. >> i'm in favor of getting rid of a ledge when we talk about the hack and russia's involvement. >> i agree with eddie and i wonder if the media, those of us who are charged with covering the trump presidency, are aware enough that this is going to be all new ground, all new ground. >> yeah. >> and context. we have to put context in all of this. everybody needs to read history a little bit.
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and match up what's happening now with what's happened before. again, it repeats itself but it does rhyme. we've got to put con tetext on of these stories. we failed last year, i think the whole media did. how many days until pitchers and catchers? what would you guess? >> about 26. >> i'm ready for baseball. >> well, no, no, about 56. >> 56, 26, it's all the same. you went to alabama, didn't you? >> i went through alabama. >> roll tide! >> you've got a granddaughter there, right? >> yes. >> well, tell her she's going to win the national championship in about a week. that does it for us this morning. thank you so much for watching on this bank holiday, where we're all asking, why we were here. but we're glad we were here, because you were here too. chris jansing picks up the coverage right now. chris! >> joe, thank you. happy new year, all. i'm chris jansing in for stephanie ruhle. breaking this morning, terror attack. isis claiming responsibit

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