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tv   MSNBC Live With Craig Melvin  MSNBC  January 5, 2017 10:00am-11:01am PST

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come back to you in just a bit. spy games. top intelligence leaders laying out russia's actions of hacking. this as president-elect considers a complete overhaul of spy agencies. will intelligence officials finally be able to convince him of russia's role when they brief him tomorrow. charges expected today against four people after a video appearing to show a gup torturing a yng man with mental health challenges after it was all streamed live on facebook. and life or death? the charleston church shooter face to face with the families of his victims in court as the jury weighs whether to give him the death penalty. let's start with the senate hearing that just wrapped up. much of it devote to the the russian security hack.
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the public will see parts othe intelligence report on the hack. handed toresident obama today. a lot of the hearing also a referendum on donald trump's antagonism of the intelligence community. >> putin is up to no good and h better be stopped. >> this was a multifaceted campaign that also entailed, you know, classical propaganda, disinformation, fake news. >> we live in a big glass house and there are a lot of rocks to throw. >> the notion that the elected -- the soon elected leader of this country would put julian assange on a pedestal -- i think it should bring about a human cry noatter whether you are republican or a democrat. there should be howls. >> what we do is in no small part driven in part by the confidence of our leaders in what we do. without that confidence, i just don't want a situation where our
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work force decides to walk. >> andrea mitchell a and casey hunt both on capitol hill. howie jackon at the white house. kristin welker here at 30 rock. andrea let's start with your general take on the hearing if you will. >> first of all they are not going to get into the details of the report which will be briefed to them in secret hearings. it's classified. the president-elect will be briefed on it tomorrow. the president saw it today. senate reed saying vladimir putin showed his hand more than they usually do, that the russians let them know they were there in a way, telegraphing that he was involved in hacking the u.s. election, signaling it in a sense. he asked what that motivation was and general clapper said i'm not going to talk about that in open seg. that gets into sources and methods but it is in the classified report. there was bipartisan agreement
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among the senators today that the russians were hyped it. the russians did it. there is no question about that. but there is also bipartisan criticism of the intelligence agencies for not having the weapons, not having the defenses agains cer attack. john mccain said it again today. he said this is war. that is this is tantamount to war. and lindsey graham said we are throwing pebbles, not stones, diminishing what some have said were very tough actions taken by the administration last week to send back 35 russians, accusing them of he is epipen age, close two russian-run facilities here in the states, and also take actions against the two major intelligence agencies sanctioning those agencies and their leaders. that said, it's been pretty well acknowledged by the intelligence spy chiefs here today that they are operating to a certain extent with their hands tied behind their backs. general clapper said at one
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point that one way to go against the russians, let's say, is to go through other national infrastructures, computer networks but that that's a violation of international law. and the point is that the u.s. lawyers and u.s. government lawyers argue against violating international law to wage defenses and to escalate a cyber attack, counter-attack against the russians. and the russians have no such compunctions. this is really asymmetric. that's one of the problems. the bottom line was ufer support for the intelligence work force and the fact that they have been diminished. that they are upset. they are angry. they don't want credit. they just don't want all this blame coming from the president-elect before he has been fully briefed. >> andrea mitchell on capitol hill. casey let's turn to you for a moment. big news out of the hearing, the
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rudimentary time line for the roll out of the declassified report we are expecting. tell us about the time line. what could be inside that report? one of the things that was strikes was james clapper saying that it will be in the report this motivation. there be ascribing motivation in the report to putin. >> that's right. we learned a little bit more about when the public will start to find out what is included in this new report. andrea walked through a little bit of this. course the president received this today. members of congress will hear more about i today in closed briefings. the president-elect will hear about it tomorrow. the public is going to start to hear about it early yek week when a declassified version of this report is released and there are hearings on capitol hill about it. the question, how far will they go in revealing sources and methods for the gathering of this intelligence? that will determine really, i think the sense of how damaging this report will be in the eyes of the public as far as tying
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russia to meddling in the u.s. election. now of course there is an emerging divide between donald trump and some of these hawkish republicans on capitol hill. namely john mccain and one of his colleagues, lindsey graham, who have been very, very focused on this issue, to the point that john mccain says that this was broadly an of act of war against the united states. i talked to him about it earlier today. take a look. do you believe what happened was an act of war? >> i think that in the broadest context it is an act of war. but you respond differently to different acts of war. espionage is an act of war. but you don't go to war over it. you don't go into conflict. so it fits the definition of an act of war, but it doesn't mean that all of a sudden you start shooting. >> mccain also asked clapper about that earlier today. clapper said it's not on the intelligence community to declare things an act of war.
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the thing i want to continue to watch going into tomorrow as the president-elect starts to grapple with what is in this report is how he responds to the intelligence community itself in digesting this information. one thing that republicans and democrats alike have been very focused on is the integrity of the intelligence community. and myources are telling me privately that if in fact he comes out and questions again whether or not the intelligence community is assesng this accurately, that there could potentially be a significant price to pay on capitol hill, potential questions about his cabinet nominations from republicans that we have not yet seen. so keep an eye on that in the coming 24 hours craig. >> casey hundred there for us on the hill. kristin walker with me in the studio. let's talk about the story in the "wall street journal" the president-elect's intention to completely overhaul the intelligence community, if you will.
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what can you tell us about that? i know you have been doing uncovering. >> i have, shawn spicer pushed back hard against the report today during a phone call with reporters. he said it's 100% false it's not happening. i can tell you i spoke with a transition official who acknowledged there is conversation how to stream line the agencies and how to make them more ficient. if you take a step this is a conversation that has been going on, republicans in particular looking at an agency like the dni and saying wait a minute has it become too bloated, is this a way to make the agency more effective? the problem is it's coming against the backdrop of the president-elect inflaming tensions between himself and the intelligence community with this war of words if you will on twitter saying essentially he doesn't believe their intelligence. at's why i think this was such a bombshell when this report came out. i think the truth is somewhere in between. are there hard plans in place? my sources telling me that's not necessarily the case but that
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they are taking a hard look at this. at the same time craig a lot of people saying is this personal? is this mike flynn. >> sure. >> his incoming director of national intelligence -- i should say his national security adviser essentially trying to get back at james clapper, who fired him. there is a sense that that may be part of this. earlier today, during the hearing, tim kaine actually talked about mike flynn and fake news, the fact that fake news kind of became part of the 2016 race. take look. >> i had a little role in this election. i was along for the ride for 105 days and was the sject of a couple of fake news stories. and when i see an administration who is put in place as the proposed national security adviser someone who traffics in these fake news stories and retweets them and shares them -- these are stories that most fourth graders would find incredible. that a national security adviser who find them credible enough to
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share them worries me. >> mike flynn retweeted some of the fake news stories before he was given this post of national securitied a vizor. bottom line, this is an unprecedented moment where an incoming commander in chief with the intel fence community. >> so many unprecedented moments. halle jackon, how much of today's hearing was about the president-elect? >> you know, a good amount. right? he was kind of the not present but ever present shadow over a lot of the questions that you saw directed to these leaders of the intelligence community. particularly of course from democrats, who were trying to sort of pk apart this idea that donald trump is not being not just healthily skeptical if that can be a phrase that we coin of the intelligence assessments he is receiving but disparaging. you saw a comparison drawn by james clammer that there is a difference between skepticism
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and disparagement. you saw them trying to draw down on the idea that the president-elect is coming dangerously close to alienating his intelligence community. the people he will be needing 15 days from now. tom cotton essentially tried to say listen and draw out of these intelligence leaders wouldn't hillary clinton have been the better candidate for russia in their view, trying to point to at least for senator cotton, donald trump's plans to build up military power, et cetera. so you know, i think that clearly there was an uncurrent of this question of is it okay for the president-elect to be talking and tweeting like he has been about the intelligence community. >> i would say craig up until this morning when he said it was a fan of the quote intelligence community and that the media was essentially blowing out of proportion his remarks i would point to remarks and tweets he made previously where he has been skeptical repeatedly not just during the transition but
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during his campaign about the russians sbr fearing in the election. >> thank you all. a big thanks to our team of reporters surrounding this story on this thursday afternoon. senator gary peters of michigan is a member of the armed services committee. he was at that hearing today. senator peters, thank you for your time this afternoon, sir. i want to start by getting your reaction to something that senator mccain said to casey hunt, that this was an act of war, this hacking was an act of war. basically, it is. technically. but that doesn't mean that you start shooting. is it each technically an act of war? >> i think it is. it is. especially this kind of political warfare that you are seeing which is an attempt to actively have an influence in an american election. when you think about a foreign government that is intruding on something fundamental to national sovereignty, which is theable of a country and its people to make decisions as to
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who will be their next leader, it is certainly an act of war. i think it represents the next phase of what is considered political warfare, which is not about shooting. not about having naval vessels and armys in the field but it about using sidebarer and other tools -- especially with the cyber tool now and what is happening there, we are seeing a proliferation of these kinds of attacks not just from the russians but other countries around the world who can have a fairly inexpensive weapon that can have a very high consequence and be,tive in political type activities. there is no question this is an act of warfare. we have to figure out a way to deal with it. that's one. things that came out in the committee we don't have a sufficient strategy at this point. >> we knew that before the hearing, correct, in terms of what we learned new this morning, what was it? >> well, no. i think it highlights the fact that we have been talking about this for some time is that you have got to have a credible
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deterrent. you can protect sidebarer networks as you can, we should do that. tltimately there has to be a cost that someone pays for hacking accounts, especially if it's a foreign government. the russians. the russians need to pay a significant price for what they did in our election. particularly with this evidence that has come out. in fact you heard today director clapper said that the strong statements that he made previously are going to be confirmed and they are going to be even more robust when the report comes out next week. we have to take firm action. and we've got to let the russians know that there is a significant price to pay when you interfere with our elections. >> in terms of that price, the sanctions that were announced last week by president obama -- some have suggested that those did not go far enough. today james clapper said that he is a big fan of the sanctions against russia. what do you say to that? did they go far enough? should there be even more sanctions levied?
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what should those sanctions look like? >> i'm open. i think we have to have a discussion on that. i think we have to see what comes out in this report next week, which sounds as it's going to be much more detailed to the extent the russians were involved. clapper said it wasn't just about the hacks on the dnc. there were other activities involved. i think we need to see the full picture. and when we see that full picture we can develop those kinds of strategies. i think the other thing that came out in this hearing is that we don't have that clearly spelled out in a comprehensive way so we can show the world community if you do this to the united states, this will be the penalty and it will be severe. so i'm hoping that what we heard today and what we're going to see next week in the report will lead to the kind of concrete responses necessary to send a strong and clear message to everybody in the world in a this is simply unacceptable. >> senator gary peters of michigan. senator thank you for your time this afternoon, sir.
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>> thank you. more on the spy games as the director of national intelligence warns retaliation might not be in order. >> people live in glass houses need to think about throwing rocks. because this was an act of espionage. and you know, we and other nations conduct similar acts of espionage. >> very curious. we'll talk to former congressman jean harmon. and a cyber security expert about the u.s. response to russia's interference. also, what appears to be the brutal beating of a young man with mental health challenges broadcast live on facebook. four people facing charges this hour. we will go to chicago for the latest on that. that brings us to today's microsoft pulse question as well. after a man with special needs was tortured on facebook live, do social media companies bear
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responsible for what is shared on their live feeds? the pulse is live. pulse at msnbc.com. we'll look at your responses later in the broadcast. c'mon in, pop pop! happy birthday! i survived a heart attack. i'm doing all i can to
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a disturbing story out of chicago that will leave you shaking your head in disbelief, will probably leave you angry and sad as well. i want to warn you that the video we are about to show you is graphic. and you might want to look away.
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four teenagers arrested after this video. what appears to show the group torturing a young man with mental health challenges. it was aired live on facebook. 18 years old, the victim, bound, gagged, tortured by the four teenagers as they shouted racist anti--trump insults. the four have been arrested. they have not been charged so far just yet. nbc's ron mott is live in chicago with the latest. ron what do we know at this point in terms of a timeline for charges? >> the police tell us to expect something this afternoon, craig. everyone here in this town who has seen this video is just shaking their head. i mean the police chief is describing this as stupidity more than anything which is why they have not sort of labeled this as a hate crime as of yet. although they keep that option open. they are working with the
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state's attorneys office right now about which charns are applicable or most applicable in this case. this all started apparently on saturday, new year's eve, the young man, the victim in this case was dropped off at a suburban mcdonald's to meet up with one of his alleged attackers. they apparently know one another from school. this young man, the victim here has some mental health challenges. and it seems that police and perhaps prosecutors believe that was the real motive behind this, is that he has some mental challenges and not so much a racial motive here behind this. but we again don't know what the official charges will be. this all stemmed were this meet up at this mcdonald's. the group then apparently stole a van. and sometime between saturday night and when he was found wandering on the west side, he apparently was beaten and assaulted by a group of four people. two young males and two young females, all 18. so that's kind of where things
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stand right now. again, the young man was treated and released to the hospital. apparently while all this was going on, craig, and this is perhaps more disturbing than the assault itself, is that the alleged attackers texted the young man's parents to essentially let them know what they were doing and if they wanted him back they wanted some money and the apparently the demand was $300. it's crazy. the police chief almost 30 years here says he has seen a lot of things that no one should see and this is very disturbing and he thinks stupity is behind night i have got to ask you this, i think if the races were swapped we would certainly be making a bigger issue of this. four black teens, victim white. they are shouting, if you listen to the video, they are out shog racist, these anti-trump things at this guy. how are police saying this is not racial? how are they explaining that? >> i think again, craig, they
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think this is just teenagers behaving carelessly and just being dumb. and that they picked this particular young man because he has some mental health challenges and they see him as a potential mark, someone easy to assault in this manner. >> yeah. >> and they apparently kept him for 24 hours, maybe as long as 48 hours. we don't know the full timing yet of how long he was held without his consent in this house, apparently, on the west side and then was found wandering around this neighborhood. he lives 40, 50 miles away from downtown chicago. so he was out of place. and fortunately he is physically okay. his family obviously worried about the emotial scars that will be left behind by this. i think you might find some people might be upset if this is not labeled a hate crime. they certainly spewed some racial hatred toward this young man in this video. whether they will be prosecuted under hate legislation we'll have to see. >> all right, ron motd for us in
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our chicago bureau there following this story closely for us. ron thanks as always. ann brimner is a legal analyst. she is also following this case. ann, part of what is most disturbing about this is that the alleged torture was streamed on social media. it was on facebook live. >> uh-huh. >> as it went on, the numbers watching went higher and higher and higher. this is what facebook said in a statement in part, quote, we do not allow facebook -- excuse me. we do not allow people to celebrate or glorify crimes on facebook and have removed the original video. in many instances when people share this type of content they are doing so to condemn violence or raise awareness about it. in that case, the video would be allowed. what responsibility, legally what responsibility do these sites have? and perhaps morally, what
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responsibility should these sites have? >> right. that's a great question to put it out as, legally and morally. legally they don't have any responsibility under the statutes. if you just have content that you sponsor some content, then the federal laws say that you are generally not liable. that having been said we have seen more suits now for content. now let's look at the moral question. er going to have this broadcast and these kids -- not kids. really adults, over 18. said they wanted it to go viral. and it did. and it's horrific con.tent. morally what should facebook do? they can't sponsor this kind of activity and sometng that is so disturbing not only based on his race purportedly tha this crime was committed and also his disible. there is a panoply of crimes that have been committed here. >> this is not the first on facebook live. the arkansas woman whose accidental death was streamed to
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thousands of her friends. she collapsed. she was singing on the social media site. none of the viewers did anything. we can go on and on and on the next ten minutes or so. how do we go about protecting folks, how do we go about keeping these incidents from happening. >> there is an old case of a woman where people stood by while she was attacked and killed. we have that in the internet age people just watching and not doing anything. we have strong laws on hate crimes, federal laws. in this case we have had a lot of discussion over is this a hate crime, not a hate crime, given what the police failed to say. in this case it could be a year in jail, ten years in jail based on firearms or other things. with federal law with the hate crime and kidnapping it could be life in prison. we need serious laws against this type of abuse, horrific abuse of someone very
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vulnerable. >> a special needs victim, one of the most vulnerable in our society. >> yes. terrible case, thanks for having me. >> president-elect donald trump getting his briefing from top spy agencies tomorrow on russian making. he has rejected 17 agencies analysis several weeks now. i'll ask jean hare monday about the global implications if he continues to refuse to accept their findings. named marianne gaspard. i became curious where in africa she was from. so i took the ancestry dna test to find out more about my african roots. ancestry really helped me fill in a lot of details.
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all right. belief it or not, within the last three minutes, breaking news in the disturbing case out of chicago we were just talking about before the break a. group of four beating a young man with mental health challenges, streamed live on facebook. charges have been announced
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there in chicago. ron mott what can you tell us. >> reporter: just as i left talking to you just a few minutes ago we got word that charges have been filed. these are all felonies. and it is a variation the following counts for all four of the suspects here. aggravated kidnapping, hate crime, aggrated unlawful resaint, aggravated battery deadly weapon, robbery, residential burglary. there are four suspects, jordan hill, 18 years old, test fay cooper, 18 years old, brittany covington, 18 years and tanisha covington. we belief the two women involved here may be related somehow. we are working to confirm that. but the four suspects who apparently assaulted this young man over the past three or four days here in chicago have been charged with felonies. they are due in court tomorrow, 2:30 eastern timen chicago. >> they have all been charged with a hate crime as well, it
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would seem. >> yep. >> we are going to continue to follow that disturbing story there. ron, thanks. we want to turn back to the big story here. top u.s. intelligence officials testifying before a senate committee on the russian cyber attack. and what america's doing to prevent them, the hearing of course coming as reflect donald trump has been highly critical of the intelligence community's assessment that russia was behind the attacking -- the hacking attempts aimed at disrupting the november election. want to bring in jean harmon, president ceo of the wilson center, former democratic congresswoman from california. also a former national security official under president george w. bush. good to have. jean, let me start with you in california. senator mccaskell asking the director of national intelligence precisely who
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benefits from the way donald trump has been treating the intelligence community? this is the response. take a listen. >> tre is an important distinctn here between healthy skepticism, which policy makers, to include possible see maker number one should always have for intelligence. but i think there is a difference between skepticism and disparagement. >> it would certainly sound like he believes that disparagement has been what's happening here as of late. what's your take on the president-elect's remarks on the national intelligence community? >> first of all, kudos to the senate armed services committee for conducting a bipartisan and serious and well focused hearing on the sub. and to the witnesses who were enormously effective, including general clapper. shout out to marcel leapter.
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they were great. my take is that thousands of well intended highly trained intelligence officials are serving us right now. many of them in undisclosed locations meaning their families don't even know what roles they play and where they are, trying to get the facts right. and those people deserve all of our respect, not just in the united states, but around the world. and some of them by the way are foreign operatives too, and we have close relations with them. i think disparaging the entire apparatus makes very little sense. i hope that president-elect trump tomorrow when he gets his detailed briefing will conclude certainly as i do, and i haven't had the briefing but i've been around this stuff for decades that we know what we're talking about and that clearly this was a russian government-led hack at the highest levels. and we've now connected that hack to a third party that delivered the information to julian asanction at wiki leaks
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and it was dribbled out. this is what's new. it is a not the hack. it's the dissemination of information. dribbled out in a way to damage one of the parties for president in our election. and i think president-elect trump should be as concerned about that as everyone else is. you know, if the tide were turned and it were dribd out to hurt him i'm sure he might -- dribbled out to hurt him i'm sure he might have a different action. no one is questioning the results of the election. what we are questioning is what john mccain calls an act of war, the use of cyber weapons to enter fee with our democracy. >> matthew, before you were a professor, you were part of this intelligence apparatus, if you will, former national security official. one of the things that has been most striking over the last day or two is the president-elect's apparent embrace, if you will, of julian assange to a certain extent. we should noted here that he has called out the mainstream media
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and tried to walk this thing back, his tweet this morning reading the dishon media likes saying that i'm in agreement with julian assange. wrong. up simply state what he states. it is up to the american people to make up their own mind. dishonest media lies to make it look like i am a big fan. what is happening between the pleg and the intelligence community. >> it is quite astonishing. despite what president-elect trump says in that latest tweet he has clearly been pointing in favor of julian assange as a source and denigrating the consensus view of the american intelligence community, something that if this were done by another president i think there are many republicans who would be calling this treasonous. >> what do you call it? >> i see -- well, i call it -- i call it unpresidential.
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i call it misguide or misinformed, and i call it very dangerous. it's unpresidential because as representative harmon said, we are talking about a community of american intelligence officials who are very dedicated to protecting our country. many of them put their own lives on the line. and it is inappropriate for the president of the united states to speak to them in this way. he is misinformed because he seems to have no knowledge of the decade of reforms that have taken place within the intelligence community, not to mention the vast capabilities of our intelligence community in attributing the source of hacks. and final lesion it's dangerous because the president is going to be -- finally it's dangerous because the president is going to be making life and death decisions for all of us based on intelligence. for him to do that effectively,
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it's important that he protect the correlate of the intelligence kmoop on which he is going to be depending for these decisions. >> congresswoman, is donald trump not doing what he has managed to do so very well over the last year and some change, which is tap into these feelings, these emotions, these suspicions that a lot of americans have about national intelligence? a lot of people in this country, as you know, don't think that the cia or the fbi or the dni or -- insert acronym here -- they don't think that they always act on our best -- they don't always act on our behalf, with our best interests at heart. they don't think they are very good at their jobs. is he not successfully tapping into that once again? >> he may be tapping into that and. and some people may agree with him. but let me just commend matthew waxman for what he just said.
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two things. the massive reforms that have occurred since two big intelligence failures. one on 9/11, and one with respect to the intelligence that -- the wrong intelligence that iraq had weapon of mass destruction, leading up to our invasion of iraq. we reformed everything. in 2004 i was one of the four principle authors of the intelligence reform law that created the director of national intelligence. now we have a joint command across 16 agencies we do intelligence products differently. the tweet that donald trump did that said these are the same folks that brought you mistakes is not accurate. some of the same people may work there, but if entire business model has been dramatically changed. and by the way, i commend the president-elect if the rumors are true for potentially nominating dan coates to be dni. >> former senator from indiana. >>is highly respected and was on the senate intelligence committee when i worked closely
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with him or we target on a joint inquiry toorrect mistakes. so that is my first pot. i think the right thing to do -- and hopefully the president-elect will get there. i mean he is appointing respected people to some of these positions. and he will get there. he will understand that the people who work so hard to get this right are the tip of the spear. if we got it wrong, i mean, they don't make policy. they just present what is not a scientific picture but a prediction. it is as good as we can get it. and they are good, of what we think will happen and what major actors are doing and what we think did happen. in the case of the russian hacks they have got a pretty darn accurate picture. >> jean harmon there in california, thank you. the dni, what is it? what does it do? >> the director of national intel jeps, the dni was designed to sit atop the 16, 17 other
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intelligence agencies and provide some unification, some coordination among them. >> all right. donald trump would not be the first to suggest that it has become a bit bloated and has spiralled a bit out of control. >> and i think there are reasonable arguments -- there are very reasonable arguments that the system is still in need of some important improvement. >> matthew waxman, jean harmon great to have you both on. breaking news, more on the hate crime charges against those four to an agers in chicago for the alleged beating of a man with mental challenges. after this. so, mr. harris, we have your fingerprints on the safe. a photo of you opening the safe. a post using the hashtag "#justbbedthafe" so, what are we supposed to think? switching to geico could save you a bunch of money
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on car insurance. excellent point. case dismissed. geico. because saving fifteen percent or more on car insurance woo! because saving fifteen percent or more on car insurance is always a great answer. i just want to find a used car start at the new carfax.com show me used trucks with one owner. pretty cool. [laughs] ah... ahem... show me the carfax. start your used car search at the all-new carfax.com.
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more on the breaking news from chicago. four teenagers charged with hate crimes for allegedly beating a mentally challenged young man in chicago and streaming it all live for the world to see on facebook. msnbc's chief legal correspondent here with me now. let's talk more about the charges. what constitutes a hate crime in illinois? >> illinois has a hate crimes law that lists several categories that could make any kind of targeting or violence if based on those candidate categories a hate kram crime. it says a person commits a hate crime by reason of race, color,
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creed, religion, an testily, gender, sexual orientation physical or mental disability. while the video showed references to trump, race relations in this targeting we don't know if the charges are based to an hate crime about race or about physical disability, which the victim had. it could be either case. what we do know aggravated kidnappi kidnapping, hate crime, aggravated unlawful resaint, battery with a wedly weapon, robbery, residential robbery and a vehicle -- >> we have had to clean up this video considerably to air on our cable network here. if you watch this, if you listen to this, it is very hard to deduce how a prosecutor, how officials would not consider this a hate crime. not even the special needs aspect of it.
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but the race -- the racial aspect of it. they are screaming racist stuff at the guy. >> certainly. >> so, i don't know, i mean, i guess, would it be possible for this to be considered a double hate crime any mean you have got two of the protected classes here that might be affected? or no? would they -- >> it's possible. the prosecutors would press their case by seeing these people were acting in unlawful and hateful ways multiple dimensions. they oy would need to be clear legally to prove one of them. but they might very well say to a jury this was both racist and anti- -- anti-disability or just like you might say someone who is race he issist and sexist. >> i'm going to put you on the spot. i don't do this a lot on live telephones. if we had four white teens and it was a black kid with special needs. any different? >> you are asking a hypothetical. >> i am. >> you are asking a lawyer a hypothetical question. >> i am. >> let me tell you this. there are precedents that relate
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to clear racist incidents. burning a cross is seen as an answered black hate crime. the terrible murders in the charleston hate crime were seen as an attack on a black church. it can be difficult to know what happened between two people when you don't have video. but you have here is clearly the evidence of -- what we would call testimonial evidence of political and racist-related attack plus the physical disability. we have been advises -- i'm reporting what we've been told by authorities they believe that these assailants allegedly right targeted this person specifically because of his physical disability. that they thought this victim would make for an easier victim because of the disability. that also being a key part. prosecutors care a lot about what happened. the video is damn damning evidence. the prosecutors care what they can prove in front of a jury. these are a serious round of felony charges who was is
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disgusti disgusting act of violence. >> ari, thank you. let's see what you are saying about our microsoft pulse question that relates to this story. >> do social media companies bear responsibility for what's shared? >> the results so far 63% of you say yes, yes, ty do. you can keep voting, keep the conversation going at policies.msnbc.com. because my dentures fit well. before those little pieces would get in between my dentures and my gum and it was uncomfortable. even well fitting dentures let in food particles. just a few dabs of super poligrip free is clinically proven to seal out more food particles so you're more comfortable and confident while you eat. so it's not about keeping my dentures in, it's about keeping the food particles out. try super poligrip free.
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confirmation hearings start next week on capitol hill for president-elect trump's nominees. i'm joined by karen bass, one of the top leaders of the congressional black caucus as well, second vice chair. congresswoman, what are the plans for jeff sessions, whose confirmation hearings for attorney general slated to start thursday maybe? >> yes. well, actually the congressional black caucus is getting ready to have a press conference in a few minutes to lay out those -- >> give us a preview. >> people are very concerned about his civil rights record. there's a lot of information from the past, but there's also a lot of concerns about h positions current lid. whether or not he would really prosecute civil rights violations so there's a lot of concerns about senator sessions, and we will absolutely be
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witness to the hearings when during the confirmation process. there will be members of the at the black caucus that will be -- >> concerns being expressed, are they largely concerns from democrats or concerns from across the aisle as well? i know they are very concerned with senator sessions. i've heard some of the other rep members who are african-american are concerned as well, but i don't know that for sure. i don't know if they will be voicing their concerns publicly. >> i do want to ask you about this new rule as well to find members for tale pictures or video on the house floor. this was seen as something that was done largely in response to what we saw during the most recent gun-control debate there in congress. should we expect more videos and pictures despite the fines? which as i understand it are up to $2500. >> first of all, we have some
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real concerns whether or not that's even constitutional, as to whether you can actually fine members. because our understanding is, is that if a member was to be punished in any kind of way, it would actually take a floor vote. members of congress would have to vote whether or not they could punish a member for videotaping. so we are really researches that aspect now, but i have to say that that was a real drastic time. i mean, we had reached a level of frustration where we had tried to have legislation around guns heard, introduced, and republicans essential would not move any of the legislation forward. that's what led to such drastic measures. >> congresswoman, i wish we had that more time. i hope you come back. >> absolutely. live pictures, secretary of state john kerr are expected to
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that's going to do it for this hour. my colleague ali velshi picks up the news. breaking news, charges just announced in a shocking attack broadcast on facebook live. the victim, a man with mental health challenges shown bound and gagged, four suspects now facing felonies,

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