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tv   MSNBC Live With Steve Kornacki  MSNBC  January 6, 2017 1:00pm-2:01pm PST

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just because the shooter is in custody doesn't slow the investigation down. in fact, it speeds it up. he has leads to run down right now between canada, alaska, florida, and any place in between, new jersey, where this shooter may have been. so it's going to be an extremely active federal investigation as to the background of the shooter and potential motive and for local law enforcement, they have to put together this mass murder. >> all right, clint vanzant, thank you. nbc news has not yet confirmed a couple of things that clint mentioned reports about the identification found on that this gentlemen had, esteban santiago. 4:00 eastern time, three hours ago, roughly, around 1:00 eastern time was when all of this started. it happened at ft. lauderdale, hollywood, international airport. terminal two. in the baggage claim area.
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a shooting, involving a man who we now have identified as esteban assistant ya go, 26-year-old man. witnesses say he walked into the area where people were pulling their bags off the carousel, and just indiscriminantly started shooting. they say he shot many shots and then reloaded his weapon. and then started shooting again. one witness describing him running out of ammunition eventually and laying down on the ground as he called it spread eagle and waiting for law enforcement to arrive. and he was taken without any kind of fight. the local sheriff, broward county sheriff telling us that he was not shot, he was not -- there was no interaction between him and law enforcement. law enforcement was able to just take him into custody. and he is now being interviewed by the fbi. but the sad news is that he did manage to kill at least five people and injure a number of others. tom cost tell low has been following this all afternoon for us as well. and tom, the airport remains
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shut down at this point, right? no operations. >> that's correct. >> we see people, and i believe are those live pictures we're looking at, guys? those are live pictures. so there are still people out on the tarmac. so for all of those travelers. for all of those worried about someone who might be at ft. lauderdale airport, what do we know? >> well, i think you're going to see this airport really pretty much in a lock down mode or at least certainly not operational -- i would guess, well into the evening hours here. you've got all of that stuff out on the ramp right now. whether it's a luggage cart, whether it is vehicles, fire apparatus, of course, you've also got all of those people who ran out on to the ramp, came back into the terminal, ran back out again, i mean, you've got an awful lot of people there who we -- they, need to make sure are secure and that they didn't leave anything out on the ramp. it doesn't even by the way have to be a security concern that something may have been left on the ramp, but quite literally fod.
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foreign object degree. then it gets ingested, that can be catastrophic for an engine. they've got a major issue here where they've got to make sure that the entire airport apparatus is secure in terms of a law enforcement perspective, but also that the runways are clean. literally clean so that planes can come and go and take off. so they've got a very big job. i would be surprised if they reopened this airport into the evening hours. they may even decide to wait until tomorrow. we'll see how that goes. i want to let you know that virtually every other major airport in the country is reporting that they are upgrading their security posture with police -- very much, on a forward-leaning kind of a position. now that's miami, which tells us they're open and operating, but they've put their s.w.a.t. teams out, deployed through the airport, new york, doing the same thing. the new york state police backing up the port authority police at newark, jfk, and also at laguardia . we're hearing the same thing from l.a.x. listen, i would suspect that if
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you are at any major airport in the country and they've been watching these pictures on tv, you can imagine that they have take telephone upon themselves, they did not need an order from anybody in washington. i wanted to address also the fact, kate, that this suspect may have come in having checked a firearm, picked up the firearm we're hearing from the baggage carousel, and then possibly loaded that weapon in the restroom. and you may be thinking, how can you check a firearm? in fact, it's very easy to check a firearm in luggage. it has to be in a secure, locked and hard cased type of case. in order for it to be checked. it's got to be declared with the airline. they have to see your id. they've got to be confident that nobody can gain access to that hard case. in other words, it is a very good hard case and it has a lock on it. and that you must check both ammunition and your weapon. every year, the tsa confiscated, in fact more and more weapons at airport check points.
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somebody is trying to either deliberately or unintentionally get a weapon past a tsa check point in 2015, they confiscated 2,600 weapons. and we had even more last year. i don't have the final count for 2016. so that's a constant struggle, but you can legally check a firearm, whether it's a long gun for shooting, for hunting if you're going to colorado or something. foryou're trying to transport a handgun, you can do that all legally as long as you followed the tsa guidelines that are spelled out on their website. >> you can -- tom, you can do that from canada on an international flight through customs as well, right? >> i must say there's some discrepancy at this moment as to where exactly this passenger was originating. you can certainly do that domestically. i need check and see what the laws and regulars are in canada as well. >> pete williams is reporting from law enforcement that they believe he did enter on a flight from canada. but you're right to use caution, tom, because things have been changing by the minute here.
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and we certainly want to let our viewers know in an open way that what we know right now at 4:00 eastern may again change. tom, thank you so much for all of your insight. i'll let you go back to reporting. we have some tape that we talked to you earlier, we mentioned this. we talked to a man named mark lee. he came in on a flight i believe from minnesota, from minneapolis, he described what happened. he was in that baggage area, in term nam two when this all happened. it is difficult to listen to, but here's what he said about what happened. >> he didn't say anything. he was quiet the whole time. he didn't yell at people, did nothing. he just started shooting. he was about 5'7", about 165. you know, from that point. so he just like i said, randomly shooting people. went up anticipate down the carousels of the baggage claim, shooting through lug tooj get at people hiding and just like i said, .09 millimeter. about three magazines and saw him on the ground.
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fully expected. >> reporter: yeah, he didn't run. he threw the gun down and he laid spread eagle until the officer came up to him. single shooter. one gun, one shooter. >> folks running, folks getting down on the ground. folks with you. are they all okay? >> yep. well, the people -- we just landed on that delta flight from minneapolis. my wife and i, we're fan. she ran out of building. i started helping people get out, older people that kept tripping over each other as they were trying to get out. i got a bunch of people out. i ran back and and tried to get people safe from cover from that perspective, and, you know, like you say, after he got people down, ran out of ammunition by that time.
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and i was probably within 50 feet of him. and i saw him basically -- had a blue polo shirt on there. threw the gun on the ground and laid down spread eagle and basically had one of the broward county officers sheriff's department came up behind me with his gun drawn and came up behind him and basically in got up to him and secured the scene and everything else. >> and that was the voice of mark lee who was a passenger at baggage claim in terminal two at ft. lauderdale, hollywood airport. five people are dead. and a number of people injured. we heard eight injured, it might grow to be more people. the injured have been taken to local hospitals. we're trying to get a reporter there, but what do we know? >> it is more people. one the reasons we're hearing it's more people, at least 14. they're headed to broward medical center, the wounded.
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i think it's fair to say to assume that people were hurt. during evacuations, we saw panic, we saw people running. and oftentimes, that will cause injuries. >> reporter: eyewitness on the phone that saw somebody be trampled by a crowd. just because people were trying to rush out. >> yeah, and listen, it's an airport. you have kids, you have the elderly. you have everybody coming in. and this is baggage claim. we keep bringing this up, but it's really important that balgage claim, nobody's focussed on anything except that are baggage. s that an ambulance -- >> is that a live picture on the left side of the screen? >> yes, that is live picture. >> one of the things we were talking about when we were playing that sound. we don't know what the shooter is telling police. you're seeing a lot of activity on the left side of your screen. that can be out of caution, that can be a reaction to what he may be saying to authorities. he left various explosive devices around plab in the parking lot. we have seen that in the past. >> right. we don't obviously -- we have no idea what he's telling authorities, we know he's being
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interviewed right now by the foib reiterate if you're just joining us. this is the scene at ft. lauderdale hollywood international airport. where we know that about three hours ago, a shooting took place. the local broward county sheriff told us that he believes it is just that one incident that happened. and that there were no other in his words, no shooting any place else at the airport, despite the fact that we've seen and heard a lot of the reports on social media of people thinking there were gunshots elsewhere. thinking throughout other terminals were effected. again, the sheriff saying that it is only that earlier shooting three hours ago in terminal two. that they believe was an actual shooting. we have seen a lot of police activity around the parking structures outside of the airport. they said a while ago, they believe they're just clearing that out. but we have seen s.w.a.t. teams, cal, with guns drawn.
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maybe that's just standard procedure. maybe the gunman told them that he left something, a car, a bag, we don't know. >> or maybe witnesses running out of that parking garage reported to law enforcement heading in that they heard gunfire. that's not necessarily an expert witness telling that law enforcement that they heard gunfire. we've got a graphic showing the layoff so we can give our viewers a look. first shooting, the only one sure happened at the baggage claim of term in a twol. that is in red that we just highlighted just below the garage. that is the garage that our kerry sanders has told us was cleared and was being surrounded by those s.w.a.t. teams as they moved in. >> there are still -- there might still be people in the garage. one of our local affiliate reporters who is trapped inside a car sort of waiting, you know, just hiding in a car, just until the all clear comes. i want to get to kenneth, he's a former port authority police chand commanding officer for jfk and la guardia airports. certainly knows the procedures
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in place. thank you for being with us. >> my pleasure. >> you drill this sort of thing, don't you? all the time. i'm sure you have massive books on what to do when an active shooter comes into your airport. >> well, the port authority police as well as police departments all across the country at airports have tabletopped and exercises what they would do in the event of a report of an active shooter. you saw an example just a month or so go during the politics when there was a loud sound at one of the terminals at jfk and the police came in and diamond-shaped pattern. they told everybody to stay down, and they made their way through the terminal looking for the source of the shooting. their goal is to stop the source of the shooting. they also will give direction to people to get themselves to an area of safety. you could tell them to get down or directing them towards an exit.
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they don't want people running, they don't want people moving because that could distract them from the shooter. the other thing that will happen is, the other law enforcement agencies will all work cooperatively. you've got a large number of law enforcement agencies at an airport. you have the local police, sometimes you have state police, you have federal officer from customs and border protection. and the federal air marshals from the tsa. >> you mentioned you don't want people running, you don't want it to be disorderly, i have to say over the past few hours, we've had a lot of shots, aerial pictures and we might be able to show some of that tape of people running across the tarmac. of people trying to evacuate other terminals. from what you've seen -- i don't know how long you've been watching. is this the way it's supposed to go? is this happening? is this playing out the way you would hope in your drills? >> the tsa, federal drive line, the national standard is, run, hide, fight. if you hear shots, you get out. first thing to do is get out. at an airport, in your gate
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area, the closest exits are all going to take you out on to the tarmac. and the ramp and gate area. that is where they expect people to go. the airlines and. airport operators have plans in place. you saw that very soon after those people started going out on the tarmac, there were buses throughout. there were airport people out there in vests corralling them to make sure they didn't go out on an active taxi way and get themselves in an area where they could get injured by a moving airport. >> one of the things is a control tower will be notified and they will put a ground stop on aircraft. moving in the area. so that they're all held in place. you see from the live shot, people are being corralled by fire trucks -- >> that's old by the way. okay. kenneth, can i ask you to stay with us please? because you are a great source of information for us on this.
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if you stand by, i want to go back to pete williams. you've been working the phones, do you have anymore information? >> well, a couple of things, kate, here. it's clear to us now that he did not arrive -- he did not drive to the ft. lauderdale airport. he flew to the airport. he began today with a flight from anchorage, connecting to minneapolis, getting on another plane and flying into the ft. lauderdale airport. that he had in his checked bag the gun he used in the shooting. whether he declared it as you can legally do or had it in the suitcase, we don't know that. in any event, authorities believe that the gun he used was -- he didn't have it in his carry-on, in his person, he had it in his checked bag. he retrieved the gun. he retrieved ammunition that he had. we don't know where he loaded
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the weapon, whether he stepped outside and then came back in, whether he went to a restroom, came back in, came to a different baggage claim area, in any event, that's to be determined, but that he flew to the airport today in ft. lauderdale. one question is why ft. lauderdale. they have yet to identify any florida connection with this suspect, esteban santiago who was living in alaska, born originally in new jersey. a family that is of puerto rican dissent. signed up for the army reserve in august 2016. as for a potential motive here, authorities are pushing that very hard, at this preliminary stage, they say it does not appear to be any sign of terrorism. and there are some indications that this person had some mental
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problems to law enforcement officials say there was a history of that. perhaps he had sought treatment. there have been some law enforcement contact with him because he claimed he was hearing voices. so at this point, and this is all subject to revision because there has been nothing conclusive reached here, this does not appear to be an act of terrorism. this appears to be the actions of someone with mental problems. whether there was a terrorism overlay or this is a person who was susceptible to these suggestions, i don't know the answer to that question yet. but, the initial word is this does not appear to be -- in it's purist form or basic form an act of terrorism. >> did you say he went from anchorage, minneapolis, minneapolis to ft. lauderdale? >> and the flight originated, both originated -- >> stand by one second. you see that picture on the left
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side there? we're watching someone -- it looks like maybe taken into custody. can't be sure what we're watching playing out there. that's outside the parking garage. >> and the authorities have cautioned about this earlier, kate, they had said -- and this does not look like the images that we've seen of the shooter that have been on social media it doesn't square with the description of eyewitnesss. >> pete, that's a live picture. and the sheriff said in his news conference that, you know, if there are people who may be suspected or helping or whatever. they're all going to be arrested and they'll sort it out later. he seemed confident and all the people we've talked to seem confident there was just one person involved in this. >> and i interrupted you, i'm sorry. anchorage, no canada, correct? >> right. the flight originated in anchorage.
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whether any flights were air canada from either alaska to minnesota or minneapolis to ft. lauderdale, we don't know that yet. he would have gone through u.s. style airport security. >> right. right. okay. and it makes more sense that he might have flown from his home. he was living in anchorage, we don't know why on earth he went to ft. lauderdale, florida. >> right, but i think the headline at this point from all indications we have they don't believe this is an act of terrorism. >> pete williams, thank you. former port authority police commanding officer for jfk and la guardia airports. both large, international airports themselves. given what pete just reported, that this man came from on a flight from anchorage and was able to check a weapon that
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sounds right to you? people do that every day. >> people all the time check weapons and carry them. the rule for carrying a handgun is that you must be teebl legally test the weapon both the beginning and the end of the trip. if he legally could possess the weapon in alaska or wherever he started. and he'd legally possess the weapon in florida or wherever he told him he was going to end the trip. as long as it was packaged within tsa regulations. being unloaded, it being a in a locked case. ammunition being separated from the weapon in a different subject. >> i just to want note for our viewers for a moment. we are just getting word that the florida governor, rick scott, will be giving a press conference about 4:45 eastern time. so what is that about 25 minutes from now? just to note if you want to stay
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with us, we're hoping to get more information out of the governor of florida, rick scott. we also heard earlier from our reporter who covers president-elect donald trump that president-elect trump has been in touch with the florida governor. of course, they are friendly and close politically. so they have spoken to each other as well. what did you expect would happen next and how do they clear the area? how do they make sure serve safe and get the passengers back to where they were trying to go in the first place? >> the first thing is all those passengers are going to have to be moved outside of the screening areas. they'll be moved to an area, the public areas outside of screening, the tsa airport operations airline personnel will then have to sweep the area. inside the terminal to make sure that there is no -- nothing unauthorized back there. and that'll be a sweep that'll be conducted by airport law enforcement, airport operations, and airline personnel along with
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tsa. once that is done, they will move people into the area. and there's a procedure they have to do that. in addition to that, the area on the outside of the terminal, the tarmac area is going to have to be swept to make sure that there is nothing left out there. not only from the security standpoint, but from the safety standpoint if somebody left a cell phone, if somebody left a small object, that could get sucked into a jet engine which could cause a lot of damage to that. those areas are going to have to be cleared of fod, foreign object debris. aircraft have been diverted. there's been a lot -- this is going to affect not just ft. lauderdale airport, and other airports in florida, but all across the country. airports are going to be affected. airplanes will have to be repositioned, going to have to be repositioned and brought back into ft. lauderdale. this is like a couple of hours or days to get everything
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totally straightened out. >> we have a little bit of new video coming in that we can show. i think it's from social media. and it gives you a sense for what things looked like after everyone cleared out of the airport. this is just what's left behind. people leaving their bags, leaving their carry ones, presumably that's one of the terminals that was evacuated and people ran away and left their things which is what people are supposed to do when they're evacuating. leave everything behind. >> that is a very important point. people try to get out the same way they got in. and if something happens like this, the man tra is, run, hide,
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fight. forget your stuff, helping somebody else, just get yourself out. the next step is if you can't get out, find something solid to get behind. of course if your life is in danger, then you have to take steps to try and stop the shooter yourself. but, the important thing is get yourself out and come back and get your stuff later on. >> clint, are you still there? >> yes, i am. >> i wanted to ask about movabilities at airports, i'm thinking back to brussels, belgium, and that attack, remember, that was a terrorist attack, and it was in the baggage area. the unsecured area. the area where you don't have to go through tsa check point. this again today, in the baggage area. do you think there may be a rethinking of how we protect and how we seal up airports? >> well, the challenge in a baggage area or other place like
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that where we're seeing shopping areas, centers, stores, this is a target-rich environment for a potential shooter. he's got a lot of people in one area, if he looks left and right and he doesn see a law enfoement officer, immediately there, he can in fact start shooting and do this. now, where we see in some sport reports as has been reported on msnbc, there may be some mental health issues, there he had a couple of minor arrests for potential mental health law enforcement challenges in alaska, so we're starting to build a motive, but my fear may be like your other guest at this time is any time we see somebody come into a target-rich environment like this, whether they've got a handgun on they're driving a struck. there's always somebody sitting on the edge of that psychological abyss waiting to jump off, waiting for the idea of how they can do it too. and of course the idea here is if you can get to an area where
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you're not screened for a weapon, you've got a lot of potential victims there, and i think that's what our shooter did today. >> clint with us, stay with us as we keep going here this afternoon. we're waiting for a press conferences a 4:45 eastern time. that's again about 20 minutes from now out of the governor of florida, rick scott. cal perry is with me here in the studio. and cal, i keep saying this, i don't to want lose sight of the fact that there are families today getting the worst news possible, there are five people deceased in this incident. and you were reporting what's the latest number on injured? >> at least 14 have gone to broward medical center. and some people may be seriously injured and fighting for their lives and we shouldn't lose sight of that which is absolutely your point. >> one of our eyewitnesss earlier this afternoon said, and this is just one of an eyewitness, he saw senior citizens among those who were bounded and among those hurt which would make sense in ft. lauderdale. it's a retirement community. >> definitely. and this is just north of miami,
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this is almost miami north airport, right. this is a cheaper place to fly to when you fly to miami if you don't want to fly to the international airport. interesting to see a black hawk airport. it's clear that authorities are going through the process of clearing out this building. taking no chances. i would imagine that they're going to increase security at these hospitals as well which is standard operating procedure as they continue to treat the patients. moving forward, it'll be interesting to see if we have a conversation about the security of our airports. as you're saying with there are entire areas of american airports that are accessible -- >> soft targets. >> the problem is of course that check point has to go somewhere. right. you're going to have to have a line of security somewhere, and it's at that point where that security is where you see these attacks happen. i also think it's fornt sort of think about what pete williams said, we have the profile of someone who had mental health issues. well --
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>> according to law enforcement sources. >> it's never black and white. they are never black and white. he still may have been influenced, we don't know. esteban santiago started his day in anchorage and finished his day by killing at least five people in ft. lauderdale. >> let me go back to clint and bring him in the conversation too, clint. cal just made that point that we were talking about a minute ago about security of airports we haven't had -- i don't think we've had an attack on this scale, ever, at a u.s. airport? >> well, we have had a -- earlier today, tom costtello looked at the number of incidents, and we have had a number of incidents, you know, i can think of them happening, not the place and the time, but where shooters have gone in, but it's never been in a sterile area. it's never been to my knowledge, where someone has gotten past screening and then produced a
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weapon. it's always on the other side. and as you're suggesting the two of you are suggesting, kate, it now becomes the question of how far out do you push security? now we have metal detectors you have to go through. do we push that to the front door where we make you go through a metal detector -- >> in europe exists, no? >> yeah. where do we push that? do we push it out in the parking lot? i mean, these rings, each time you put another ring of security, we're talking about millions of dollars, we're talking about hundreds of people to man those security rings. i think law enforcement, airport security, has said, this works for us now, but in a case like this, we see how easy that can be violated? >> let's recap for people who might just be joining us. we are about three and a half hours into this story now. we are looking at live pictures. we are about three and a half hours ago those shots rang out
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in the baggage area of incoming flights at terminal two. where a man with a gun walked in and started shooting, without appearing to target anyone in particular, according to eyewitnesss. we're showing a little bit of video of what that scene, i believe that is the scene. these pictures are difficult to look at. some of them we've blurred out because you don't want to see them without that. but this was -- this was a man, one shooter, according to law enforcement authorities, now saying they don't believe anyone else was involved or indeed they don't believe there were any other shootings besides this one in terminal two in the baggage area. five people are dead. 13 people are injured. although it may actually be a bit more than that. now 14. >> we think it's 14. >> 14 people with injured. kerry sanders is on site at the airport, kerry, we've seen live pictures coming in and a few
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minutes ago saw police interacting with someone. it looked like he was in cuffs. we couldn't quite tell what was going on. an update on what's happening live? >> reporter: i don't have details on that i can tell you that the officers have actually closed off the entire airport area. so, that means that people who are a mile away tried to come in on the various access points. that's been closed off far while now. as a matter of fact, i made my way in here on foot. we can hear occasionally bursts of sound like that, sirens. we know that terminal two is closed down, terminal one closed down, terminal two is where all of this took place. it was down stair in baggage claim. across the airfield here where i'm standing, i'm going see if he can zoom in. across the airfield, all the way over on the far side, if you take a look, you can see that there are people who have gathered at a terminal there. that's across the taxi way, across the runway.
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those people are the passengers and other personnel who were inside terminal two who were evacuated. they were evacuated quickly, they ran, then they came back from terminal three. then they were eventually escorted in a long line of people over to the other side of the airport. flights in and out of the airport, of course, are closed. flights that were heading here have been diverted. primarily to palm beach international about an hour north at a car, down in miami, to miami international. about a 35, 40 minute drive in a car. so those folks who were coming in were airborne would be making their way just landing at a different airport. the ambulances that are here continue to -- well, i see one passing us right here right now. paramedics are dealing people who have related concerns. sometimes, in panic situations like this, people have racing hearts, they can bring about other problems. and so the paramedics are here helping. downstairs, in terminal two, there were some passengers who
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were picking up luggage. many asked to hold in the area upstairs in terminal two where the authorities to want talk to them to get as best eyewitness account as they can. this airport like most has surveillance. there'll be video surveillance for them to review later. and of course, the question now, kate, is one of about this passenger taking a route from anchorage to minneapolis and minneapolis to here. we believe that that lug thaj he checked had a firearm in it. that can happen. legal to travel. you notify the airline. they are aware of it. they cannot be loaded weapons. must be empty. i did callulate to see how long and in the first place.
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this person, esteban santiago and now in custody. had a lot of time to think about this. and i think people will wonder, especially those who are on the plane with him to think back now, were there any telltale signs of him acting odd? they say see something, say something. it's a lot harder when you're in an airplane and they seem a little off, but you know, sometimes you believe it's a nervous passenger or a nervous flier. so kate, right now, for the folks who are at this airport, those who are passengers, those who are employees, it's everything at a standstill. it's going to take a long time for them to bring this airport back up because they have to take it all the way down. that means that the ahorities with k-9s, with other teams have to sweep through every terminal. look for luggage, items that don't belong. try to determine whether there are any additional threats. and i think we should go back from the viewers watching this unfold throughout the day, there
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were reports of gunfire in terminal one, the authorities say, that did not happen. there were reports of a threat inside the parking garage here, the authorities responded. the authorities say there was no threat. they just went to check something out. in fact, may have been a 911 call from somebody in the garage who thought they say something. so, at this point, lone gunman and you know the carnage here, the death toll is horrific, and the panic and the pandemonium here will live with the people who are here far very long time. >> yeah, kerry sanders, live at the airport there, kerry, thank you so much for that. let me turn to tom costello. he's in washington for us. tom, we just saw a tweet here, i don't know if you've seen this from air canada saying he was not a passenger on one of their planes. >> so we now believe that this passenger in fact originated in anchora anchorage, alaska, on a domestic u.s. airline. and we're double checking which airline that is.
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transsitsing through minneapolis, and then into ft. lauderdale. and therefore, if he checked that weapon, he could do so legally. you know, kerry illuded to the fact that you cannot have ammunition, it must be in a hard shell locked case, and it must be declared to the airline. the question at this hour is, if in fact he came through, there's the statement from air canada. if in fact he came through having checked that gun legally, and then once he arrived at the airport opened that checked bag, that checked weapon container, pulled out the weapon and loaded it, what does that say now about security post-security? or rather after you've already checked -- grabbed your check bag if weapons are now arriving at carousels, they have been for some time, but is there now a new security dilemma that needs to be evaluated? >> i can tell you a month ago.
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that the that would include everything to the tsa check point once you have passengers arriving and picking up their weapons. because they have seen attacks in public areas related to terrorism. whether it's brussels and being attacked. and those lessons talking about how do we know? where is the security and where is the check point? is it at the tsa line? is it in the parking lot. and this is an ongoing discussion and really has security people. and the latest technology with the facial recognition cameras
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with bomb-sniffing dogs and bomb-sniffing robots if you will and sensors. but hardly anybody would have anticipated this kind of a scenario where you legally check a gun and start killing people. >> one passenger we spoke with earlier, mark lee who gave us a lot of information. and just a feet away when he started shooting. he came in on a delta flight from minneapolis. could be a coincidence or it could be that the person that esteban santiago was on that very same flight. >> this was a delta flight through minneapolis which would make sense. that's a major delta hub of course. >> we know that mark lee was on that flight. we don't know whether the alleged shooter was on that flight. >> we do know that the shooter
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did come from anchorage through minneapolis and down into ft. lauderdale. so, as you would expect. this opens up a whole host of questions. listen, if he just threw the gun into a bag and checked it and it wasn't officially declared, then you've got a whole other set of questions about whether the checked in bag. can i take -- at the ring of repeating myself from an earlier conversation, and pardon me, i can't remember if i said it on the network or with you. but as it relates to the ongoing richgs right now. ft. lauderdale airport, highly unlikely they're going to reopen tonight. not only for the ongoing situation you see right there, with all those people out on the ramp, they don't know about the tarmac and they can't be sure enneed too go back and rescreen everybody, but in addition to that, we they need to know if there's something on the runway.
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whether it might have been a weapon or a piece of debris, a fod. something in on an airport. that could be catastrophic. so they've got to not only make sure that it's sterile from a security perspective, they've got do make sure it's sterile from a debris and stuff on the runway and ramp perspective before they ever let planes start moving again with passengers on board. >> not to mention people left things behind, personal items inside the terminal. we have pictures we just got in recently of bags and purses and all kinds of things. and left their things behind. they're going to have to reconcile all those baggage -- >> how many people lost a shoe running across, you know, in a panic and through the grass. big clean-up today. >> tom, you need to go and do more reporting. thank you so much for all that you've been able to tell us. where are we headed next?
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hans nichols, you told me, i forgot. hans nichols is at the white house. president obama has been briefed, i presume, i saw earlier that he was getting briefings. >> yeah, kate, he's been briefed by homeland security advisor, fairly standard breer here at the white house when an event like this happens. sadly we've had a lot of them. president will receive an initial briefing and then get updates throughout the day as they know more, they will share more at the white house. typically the president doesn't come out and give a statement until this is entirely concluded. now, on the donald trump side of things, the president-elect he has spoke with governor rick scott, the governor of ft. lauderdale for a briefing there. we expect to hear the president later today, nothing official. >> thank you so much. on the phone right now, congressman is ft. lauderdale. >> thank you for your time this
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afternoon. and we're awaiting a briefly hopefully from your governor, governor scott there in florida, but we've been reporting a lot of new details now about the shooter who's in custody. about the five people deceased. what is your understanding of -- do you have any understanding of how this happened or why it might have been happened? >> no, we don't know that yet. and the conversations that i've had with law enforcement, obviously they're conducting a full investigation. the one piece of information that i learned just this afternoon that i guess have been reported is that there have been some sort of argument between the shooter and either someone on the plane, passenger on the plane, or someone else, but -- >> let me stop you there. we have not heard that. so that is news to us. so you heard from law enforcement sources there was an argument? >> yeah, my understanding is that there had been some sort of
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exchange. it's unclear whether it was on the plane or after he left the plane, but obviously all of that is being investigated now. the way that law enforcement is conducting this both the investigation and the security at the airport, i think, is absolutely appropriate. there are real concerns that everyone has to make sure that both -- nothing is missed as they search the airport, and certainly to make sure that everyone is safe. there'll be much more to learn going forward. >> it is a chaotic situation as we speak. we're looking at pictures on the left side of the screen. those are live pictures of those still out on the tarmac. this is your district, heavy, high tourist season for you in florida. how concerned are you about getting that airport up and running again? >> well, for all of us who live and represent south florida especially, we're all very concerned. we want the airport to get up and running.
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the crews industry is impacted. people coming to south fol go out on cruises. we're obviously very concerned about it getting up and running again, but first and foremost, certainly everyone's safety and security. both the passengers at the airport and we're also still concerned, of course, about the people who have been shot who are being treated now. and we certainly hope the best for them. some of them certainly have been critically injured and we're thinking of them as well. >> our thoughts are with them as well. have you been able to learn anything about any of the people involved in any of this? have you gotten any kind of sense of who was injured? >> i have not. i spoke with the ceo of the hospital where the injured are being treated and it's a trauma center and they're getting good care, but as i know you've reported the shooter, when he started shooting open fire at
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the heads of the people he shot at. so certainly some of these injuries are very serious. but they're getting good care in a appropriate trauma center. question only hope for the best. >> congressman, thank you so much for taking a few minutes out and joining us, i appreciate it. >> thank you. >> joining me now, msnbc law enforcement analysts, retired atf special agent in charge, jim cavanaugh is with us. i feel like i ask you the same question every time we're in a situation like this, but what happens now? what will law enforcement be doing as we move forward? >> well, a lot of interviews, kate, with all the witnesses in the baggage area specifically, and of course if anybody was on the aircraft with the shooter. >> forensic investigation, very large and slow. that will be in the baggage claim area. remember, there's a live defendant that's got to be put on trial for mass murder here. so, broward county and our agents and state, dfle, fbi,
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they're going to be looking at all of that stuff. of course atf's going to trace the gun forward and they're going to sweep the cameras. and this is major nooechbt your life. when you do something like that. it's hard for a person and he's likely spitting out his reasons on arriving to the jail. ask all the feel of spontaneity, it feels a little bit spontaneous. when we look at them, kate, we have all watched them across the world like in se brussels, we see people come to the airport with bombs and multiple actors and they're going to lay carnage on the airport.
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this guy maybe has three magazines and he's out of bullets. and if it came out of checked baggage, again, it sounds like there's some spontaneity to the plan. so if there is a plan at all. so interesting to see what's uncovered. that last report. that you just uncovered from the congressman talking about maybe some dispute with other passengers. i think that's a real possibility this guy did not seem to be, you know, armed and planned for a major attack. handgun with three magazines could give us this kind of devastation. but it doesn't necessarily have to be a planned attack. it can be just somebody who had a gun and decided to do the attack. >> jim cavanaugh, stand by if you would. stay with us. pete williams is with us again in washington. pete, i don't know if you've heard the congressman we were interviewing who represents ft. lauderdale. he said he heard from local law enforcement there might have been some kind of argument or disagreement involving the shooter.
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either on the plane or when they landed. have you heard anything like that? >> no. we know now from investigative authorities that they say that esteban santiago left on a delta flight last night, flew to minneapolis, changed planes this morning, very early this morning, minneapolis to ft. lauderdale flight that would have left around 8:25 a.m. eastern time. and then arrived at the ft. lauderdale airport. and we've talked to some of his relatives now, and the picture that we're getting both from relatives and from law enforcement officials is that this was a young man who had some mental health problems. his aunt in new jersey and his uncle there, where the family originally were -- i think he was born in new jersey, where esteban santiago was born, they say that he served in the u.s. army reserves in iraq, and that
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after he came back from iraq, he had some problems that for which he was seeking treatment. and law enforcement officials have said that he was seeking some mental health treatment in alaska. to what extent that is a factor in this shooting is to be determined, but authorities have told us they have found no sign of terrorism, whether in his -- whether in his interswru authorities he's mentioning terror groups, we don't know, but this does not seem to be from everything we've heard a terrorist-inspired or directed attack. >> and pete, you just said something i don't think we knew before. he signed up for the army reserves, did you say he did serve some time? i mean he did -- he did serve overseas? >> yes, in iraq. he served in iraq. i'm not sure the dates of that, but his relatives and some of the investigators have told us that he did serve, had some duty in iraq. i'm not sure the nature of what it was, but, you know, in this modern day of the military, the
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reserve and the national guard is an important supplement to the active duty forces. so in some of those units do see some action when they go overseas. >> right. okay. pete williams, i will let you go, i know you probably neetd to make some more phone calls. appreciate it as always, let us know if you have more. let me turn back to cal perry. it's 4:50 now, five minutes ago they told us we would expect a press conference in the lower right of your screen, the lower right corner, i i want to note for viewers, we're still waiting for governor rick scott of florida. who we expect to give us a briefing. while we wait for that, we've learned several things in the past hour. we've learned that this was a man who lived in anchorage, alaska, who comes originally he was born in new jersey. his family is of puerto rican heritage may mean nothing, that's their heritage. flies from anchorage this morning through minneapolis, connecting on now we know a delta flight. >> uh-huh.
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>> into -- >> maybe the same flight that witness was on. >> could be the same minneapolis flight that -- at least one witness we spoke with who was at the baggage carousel said he was picking up his bags from a flight from minneapolis. so it could be that he turned on the very people he was just on the plane with. >> and we're starting to get a bit of a profile of who the alleged shooter was here. we just heard from pete williams, and he served in iraq. it's like you were saying, it's never black and white, it's always a gray area here. it's an issue of maybe a mental health issue combined with a gun issue combined with an anger issue. it could be all of the above. it could be none of the bv. right. and this is what investigators are trying to work out now. as they not only go through the scene at the airport, but as they try to unpack friendsically not only his social media profile, but the social media profile us of relatives, friends, in iraq. there is going to be a great deal of information that they will be able to uncover online,
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be it photographs or essays what he wrote, what he took, and what he put up on his social media page. all of that right now is happening as authorities not only physically clear this scene, which you're seeing on your screen, but as they go through the profile what have we know now is the mass shooter. >> >> i want to remind viewers that we're waiting for the governor of florida, rick scott to appear at those cameras there. while we wait, if we could dip back a few hours here. if you've been watching us far while, we've spoken to any number of people, several different eyewitnesss, people on planes, in the terminals, and people who indeed were in that very baggage claim area and saw things way up close and way too personal and two passengers who were in that terminal two baggage claim area when the shooting started called into msnbc earlier. the calls are giving us vivid accounts that we have of the incident. let's take a listen. let's stop for a moment and listen to tape of these two
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eyewitnesss and what they saw. >> he didn't say anything. he was quiet the whole time. he didn't yell at people. did nothing. he just started shooting. he was about 5'7", 165, from that point. so, he just, like i said, randomly shooting people. went up and down the carousels, shooting through luggage to get at people hiding. like i said, he had a 9 millimeter. three magazines from what i could tell. once he finished shooting, he walked down, down on the ground and lay down spread eagle until the first officer came which was about a minute later. >> he fully expected to get caught. fully expected to -- >> oh yeah, yeah, he didn't run. he threw the gun down and he laid spread eagle on the ground until the officer came up to him. >> one gun -- >> single shooter. one gun, one shooter. >> folks runs, folks getting down on the ground, folks that were with you. are they all okay? >> yep.
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well the people -- question just landed on that delta flight from minneapolis, so like i said, my wife and i, we're fine. she ran out of building. you know, basically i started helping people out, older people that kept tripping over each other as they were frantically trying to get out. i got a punch of people out. i ran back in and tried to get more people down or out or safe from cover. you know from that perspective. and, you know, like i say, after he got other people down, he ran out of ammunition by that time. and like i said, i was within 50 feet of him, and i saw him basically, you know, had a blue polo shirt listen to. threw his gun down and laid down spread eagle. he had one of the broward county sheriff's department with his gun drawn and came up behind him and basically got him up to him and secured the scene and everything else. >> sound from two eyewitnesss we heard from earlier. i want to tell viewers, we just got word in from the airport and authorities down there that
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there's some sort of suspicious package, and we may hear an explosion sound. we may hear the sountd of an explosion. they want everyone whose listening, i know people are watching in airports, people are watching in ft. lauderdale, if you hear this sound, that is a controlled explosion. cal perry and we have jim cavanaugh with us, jim, you would know a lot about this. this could be anything, right? but it means that they are controlling it and making sure that they detonate something so that it doesn't hurt anyone. >> right, the bomb squad used disrupter. and it fires basically with a shotgun slug or shotgun round, sometimes a water jet. there's different kinds of loads that can go in it, and it busts open the suitcase and package, and kate, that place is probably crawling with all kinds of luggage that's unclaimed -- >> right, it doesn't mean -- suspicious package does not mean it has an explosive device inside, right, for clarity. >> exactly. does not mean that. something they cannot identify. and they have to clear it the
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way they clear it, it could have been placed somewhere in a corner when somebody i was leaving. the bomb squad has disrupt it, render it safe. they have to pop it open and people will hear that pop. and they shouldn't overreact to it because it's just going to probably pop open a suitcase full of clothes, you know, that's usually it. >> and of course, they're telling us, they're telling the media so we get the word out. because all afternoon, jim, we've had several times now we've seen people run, we've seen, you know -- it's been an hour or so since this happened, we've seen people panicking because they heard rumors or something was happening or they thought they heard in a couple of cases -- thought they heard a gunshot which was not completely as kerry sanders reported -- false reports. they have to deal with a very nervous public. >> no, exactly. and that's why it's good to put the word out through the airport, social media, and just like this, on msnbc. so people watching can understand what's going on.
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normal police clearing procedures. you know, if all the information we know, kate, so far, that he came from alaska to minneapolis to ft. lauderdale, that's unlikely he's planted any package, you know, in the parking garage or somewhere where they were disrupting this thing, but he could have left something in a bathroom too. so that has to be checked. one thing on that report from pete as we know, didn't go through customs, because minneapolis -- i'm sorry, alaska to minneapolis to ft. lauderdale is not an international customs flight. so he's not clearing customs. so he could get on an alaska and declare a firearm, that's possible. or he could have gotten on alaska and hide a firearm. it depends on their security procedures are and x-raying every bag at that airport before they put it on. legally he could declare it and put it in the luggage, of course he could not legally take it in he was intended to murder people because that would be a crime intending to, you know, commit a felony while crossing state
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lines with a gun. but, you know, he might not have been intending to murder when he did, but just had access to it it. earlier there's some feeling of spontaneity, whether that holds true we'll just have to see. he was not suicidal, and that's a factor we have to look at here and the commanders have to look at, and i'm sure the fbi agent in charge and the terrorist task force looking at it as well. okay, why did he shoot this group of people at this baggage claim? targeting is always important. whether it's from someone suffering from mental illness or a terrorist or workplace violence who targets their employer or their fellow workers. targets is always important. sometimes can help you disearn the motive. terrorists want random killing, but others, they target a certain group for their own certain reasons. so that sometimes tells us something. >> right. you were speaking whf you say he didn't take his own life, he laid down and waited for tlurmt
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arrive. but obviously we don't know at this stage what has -- what his mental health state was. i believe we are waiting for two things right now. and by the way, in the upper right corner, that is tape that you're watching right now. i want our viewers to be clear. that is not a live picture. the live picture is on the left side of your screen. we are waiting for two things. we're waiting for the governor of florida, rick scott, to brief the press. we expected that to happen about 15 minutes ago. any moment now, that could happen. and we're also -- i think getting first pictures in of the suspect and we don't quite have it ready to put on the air yet, but we're working on a picture that we have been able to obtain of the 26-year-old man who authorities say walked into terminal two baggage claim earlier today, about three, four hours ago now and opened fire, killing five people. wounding many others. and remains in the hospitals around ft. lauderdale. i am going hand things off for
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the moment to my colleague, craig melvin whose returned. and i'll be back here in a bit. >> we'll sue you back here in an hour. thank you again. live pictures there. this is the tarmac of florida -- excuse me, ft. lauderdale hollywood international airport. this has been the scene on that tarmac for some time now. we've spoken to a number of people who are in that crowd, hundreds if not more than a thousand, most of them are passengers, but you also see sop airport personnel. some members of law enforcement. medical staffers as well on that tarmac. roughly three hours ago, 26-year-old man walked in through the baggage claim area of terminal two and opened fire indiscriminately. that the point, five people are dead, eight people injured, a number of folks on their way to the hospital. at the hospital i should say. at this point.


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