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tv   The Last Word With Lawrence O Donnell  MSNBC  January 11, 2017 10:00pm-11:01pm PST

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up with some bad dudes. for this reason we urge you to shut down the guantanamo facility. quote, mr. trump must be deprived of the use of guantanamo bay. it remains to be seen if and how the obama administration plans to respond. trump takes office in nine days. tick-tock. that does it for us tonight. we'll see you again tomorrow. now it's time for "the last word with lawrence o'donnell." good evening, lawrence. >> good evening, rachel. it's good to be back. i walked right back into breaking news. we have a breaking news statement we're going have to read. thanks. breaking news is that the director of national intelligence james clapper says he just spoke with donald trump, and he released this statement. he said this evening i had the opportunity to speak with president-elect trump to discuss the recent media reports about our briefing last friday. he said we also discussed the private security company document which was widely circulated in recent months among the media, members of congress, and congressiol staff even before the intelligence community became
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aware of it. i emphasized that this document is not a u.s. intelligence community product, and that i do not believe the leaks came from within the intelligence community. the intelligence community has not made any judgment on the information that in this document that it reliable, no jump that is reliable, and we did not rely upon it in any way for our conclusions. however, part of our obligation is to ensure the policymakers are provided with the fullest possible picture of any matters that might affect national security that written statement tonight from james clapper, director of national intelligence. >> does anyone really belief that story? i'm also very much of a germophobe, by the way. believe me. >> the incoming president and his intelligence agencies are in open warfare. >> that's something that nazi germany would have done. >> he compared the intelligence community to nazi germany.
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>> i have great respect for the news or freedom of the press and all of that. no, not you. not you. your organization is terrible. quiet. quiet. >> questions about russian influence. >> if putin likes donald trump, guess what, folks? that's called an asset, not a liability. >> is vladimir putin a war criminal? >> i would not use that term. >> rex tillerson. i think it's brilliant what he is doing and what he is saying. >> do you lack the knowledge to answer my question or are you refusing to answer my question? >> a little of both. >> despite bipartisan calls from ethics expert, mr. trump will not be divesting from his business. >> my two sons are going to be running the company. they're not going to discuss it with me. >> we fails the test and hasn't set up a true ethics wall. >> can a president be impeached before he is even inaugurated, or do we have to wait? >> we all remember exactly what we were doing, exactly 24 hours
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ago. we were either listening to the discussion on this network about president obama's speech or staring at things on social media that we couldn't really believe with our own eyes. last night at this hour, when the tv news audience was still in the grip of the emotional aftermath of witnessing president obama's last speech as president of the united states, social media was buzzing about buzzfeed. specifically a document released by buzzfeed yesterday that alleged russia has information about donald trump that can be used to blackmail him that is the document that james clapper was referring to and what we just read at the beginning of the program. "the new york times" says the document, quote, those document. s describe sex videos with mr. trump in a 2013 visit to a moscow hotel there is no convincing sourcing for that claim in the documents.
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today donald trump gave two reasons why that story should not be believed. he is extremely careful, and he is a germophobe. >> i am extremely careful. i'm surrounded by bodyguards. i'm surrounded by people. and i always tell them anywhere, but i always tell them if i'm leaving this country, be very careful because in your hotel rooms, and no matter where you go, you're going to probably have cameras. i'm not referring just to russia, but i would certainly put them in that category. i was in russia years ago with the miss universe contest, which did very well. the moscow area. did very, very well. and i told many people be careful because you don't want to see yourself on television. cameras all over the place. and again, not just russia, all over. does anyone really believe that story? i'm also very much of a germophobe, by the way.
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believe me. >> we've all seen just how extremely careful donald trump can be when he knows he is surrounded by cameras and microphones. for the first time in history, "access hollywood" video was used as the basis of a question in the confirmation hearing of a nominee to be attorney general of the united states. >> my question is very simple. is grabbing a woman by her genitals without consent, that sexual assault? >> yes. >> donald trump's press conference today was scheduled last week with the announced topic being how donald trump and his family would manage conflict of interest issues during the trump presidency. donald trump delegated that subject to a lawyer who filled silver minutes in the middle of the press conference that was otherwise dominated by russia. and finally today, the presidential candidate who continuously defends russia
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about hacking e-mails and john podesta's e-mail and continuously came up with alternative scenarios saying it could be anybody, including his mythical 400 pound man finally said this. >> as far as hacking, i think it was russia. that. >> became donald trump's new position, right up until he was asked about it again in the same press conference. >> you said just now that you believe that russia indeed was responsible for the hacking of the dnc, et cetera. >> russia. but you know what? it could have been others also. >> and so there he goes again. injecting reasonable doubt into a case where the directors of the cia, nsa and fbi all agree there is no reasonable doubt. donald trump couldn't resist one more moment of defending russia in the hacking case. it could have been others. donald trump has attacked president obama, president bush,
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president clinton, secretaries of state john kerry, hillary clinton. he has attacked most of the democratic senators who he can name, and at least half of the republican senators who he can name. he repeatedly attacked paul ryan. he attacked every single republican who had the temerity to run for president last year. and he has attacked the sworn officers of the cia. he has attacked me. he has threatened to sue me. he has attacked katy tur, whose only offense was being one of the first reporters to cover the trump campaign. he has attacked countless other reporters and all of the american news media generally and constantly, and he has never once, not once spoken a single word of criticism about the russian dictator vladimir putin. >> if putin the likes donald trump, i consider that an asset, not a liability. because we have a horrible relationship with russia. if putin likes donald trump, guess what, folks?
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that's called an asset, not a liabily. now i don't know that i'm going to get along with vladimir putin. i hope i do. but there is a good chance i won't. and if i don't, do you honestly believe that hillary would be tougher on putin than me? does anybody in this room really believe that? give me a break. >> guess who does believe that? vladimir putin, the person who dominated that room without being in that room does believe that. that is what american intelligence officials have concluded about vladimir putin's view of the presidential campaign. and the official intelligence report on this matter, the director of national intelligence says we assess russian president vladimir putin ordered an influence campaign in 2016 aimed at the u.s. presidential election. we further assess putin and the russian government developed a clear preference for president-elect trump. we have high confidence in these judgments. we also assess putin and the russian government aspired to help president-elect trump's
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election chances when possible by discrediting secretary clinton and publicly contrasting her unfavorably to him. all three agencies agree with this judgment. after a report like that, any other politician would be tough on russia just to demonstrate at a minimum some independence from russia. but not donald trump. he continues to be nice to vladimir putin on the same day that he attacked an american reporter at his press conference because the reporter committed the unpardonable offense of doing his job. and so the mystery continues tonight. why is donald trump so nice to vladimir putin? no one is taking the buzzfeed documents as conclusive proof of anything. so reporters continue to probe for other possible explanations after donald trump insisted today that he has no deals in russia, and that he would be -- nothing that would make him beholden to putin or the russians. he was once again logically
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asked about his tax returns. >> will you release your tax returns to prove what you're saying about no deals in russia? >> well, i'm not releasing the tax returns, because as you know they're under audit. >> of course, we do not know that they're under audit. we have never known that donald trump says that they are. but he has never produced the irs form letter that commences every audit. that letter would reveal nothing about donald trump's income. it would simply reveal that the irs was beginning an audit of donald trump's tax returns. it would not mean that the irs is still auditing those tax returns. but it would be something. it would be something other than donald trump's word that his tax returns for 2015 are still being audited. what if donald trump is not being audited? and remember, there is absolutely no evidence that he is being audited. none, not any. what if he is not being audited? and what if his personal returns could tell us something what we don't already know about his financial dealings with
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russians? >> you know, the only one that cares about my tax returns are the reporter. >> you don't think the american people are concerned? >> no, i don't think so. >> donald trump is partially right about that. 1/3 right, in fact. 33% of americans apparently don't care about his tax returns. but 60% of americans told a pew poll that they believe it is his responsibility to release those tax returns. donald trump will soon be appointing the next director of the irs. in effect, the next supervisor of the audit of his tax returns that may or may not be taking place. and like everyone currently working at the irs, donald trump's new handpicked supervisor of all of his tax filings will be by law sworn to secrecy about any information about any tax filer, including donald trump. and so donald trump knows that he can continue to claim that he is being audited forever, and no one at the irs can publicly say that he isn't.
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and the hope of finding something in his tax returns that explains why vladimir putin remains the only person in the world who donald trump has never criticized remains a distant dream. donald trump is not a careful man. he has been reckless in his businesses leading to bankruptcies, in his marriages leading to divorces. he has been the most reckless politician we have ever seen. but he continues to be very careful. about vladimir putin and all things russian. and america is left to wonder why. we'll try to answer that question next with malcolm nance, david forum and john schindler, a former intelligence officer with the nsa. that's next. ♪ ♪ after becoming one of the largest broadband companies in the country.
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in our breaking news tonight, we have a statement released by james clapper, the director of national intelligence. we got this just before going on the air at 10:00 p.m. a written statement about a conversation he had tonight with donald trump. among other things it says we discussed the private security company document which was widely circulated in recent months among the media, members of congress and congressional staff, even before the intelligence community became aware of it. i emphasize that this document is not a u.s. intelligence community product in that i do not believe the leaks came from within the intelligence community. the intelligence community has not made any judgment that the information in this document is reliable, and we did not rely upon it in any way for our conclusions. we are joined now by malcolm nance, msnbc counterterrorism intelligence analyst. also david frum, senior editor from the atlantic and former speech write for george w. bush. and john schindler, former intelligence analyst for the nsa. malcolm nance, let me begin with you with your reactions to the
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totality of the last 24 hours. what has emerged and what you heard from donald trump today that continued to include not a word of criticism of vladimir putin. >> well, in totality, we've gone from, you know, silly season on to the silly campaign. it's going to be like this for four years. i find it very interesting that during the press conference today that he referred to himself as an asset. you know, and his relationship with russia is an asset. he is an asset all right. he may in fact be an asset of vladimir putin's, who apparently has gotten him to the point where he cannot say anything or criticize him at all. very interesting. and certainly moving on from, you know, serious to suspicious. >> john schindler, your reaction to the totality of the story so far, including director clapper's written statement tonight. >> well, i think jim clapper has said what he had to say, which
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is that the president-elect's tantrum today on twitter and at his press conference against the intelligence community is aiming at the wrong target. the ic is not responsible for the document which buzzfeed leaked. that is not where it comes from. that is not to say it doesn't perhaps agree with some of its conclusions. but the president-elect was aiming at very much the wrong target today. and i think that's a very negative outcome. >> and david frum, your reaction? >> i'd like to direct attention to the statement you read at the beginning from james clapper. it directly gives the law as kellyanne conway said on seth meyers' show last night where she said the president-elect had not in any way been briefed on this. the people watch programs like this are people who follow politics closely. they're hard to fool. but there is a big universe of americans who pay less attention to politics, and they watch shows like seth meyers. and it sort of pays to lie to them. it is a reminder of the really kind of startling level of untruthfulness that comes out of everyone around this administrative grouping.
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that you flatly say on such a well watched show with such a nonpolitical audience one thing. and 24 hours later the intelligence community says that's just a lie. but the lie gets halfway around the world before the truth gets its boots on. >> and malcolm we have donald trump come out today and half heartedly say that russia did the hacking, and then take it back. take it halfway back at least in his next comment about it. but during the campaign, he was pretty clear about it when he would stand up there on rally stages and publicly make specific hacking requests of the russians to specifically -- go after specific things that we would like to read. >> well, i'm not sure that, you know, trying to rely on donald trump for giving you the truth is going to get you very far. we already know, and we've seen this pattern occur again and again, where he will come up and when forced into a corner to say something which is a known truth to everybody in this universe,
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he will touch it for one moment so that he can say that he said it. and he will go back to dissimulation. and essentially lying to mask whatever it is that he is trying to cover up at that moment. i think this is going to be an enormous problem. post truth does not work outside of his bubble. and the rest of the world can take serious, you know, there will be consequences on the united states th economically, militarily and in foreign policy if we keep going this route. >> and john schindler, donald trump was complaining about this unsubstantiated report. yet he was eager to use unsubstantiated, unconfirmed e-mails that were hacked that were the product of this russian hack, the intelligence community now says. let's listen to what he said today about hacking where he couldn't resist actually celebrating the outcome of the hack. >> remember this. we talk about the hacking.
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and hacking is bad. and it shouldn't be done. but look at the things that were hacked. look at what was learned from that hacking, that hillary clinton got the questions to the debate and didn't report it? that's a horrible thing. that's a horrible thing. >> so, john, hacking is bad. it shouldn't be done, but? >> well, but they sure seem to like it when it worked for them, and it worked for them to some extent from the campaign. this is rank hypocrisy of the worst kind. i'll be honest. i'm glad i'm out of the military and the service so i don't have to call this man my chief. this is institutionalized lying. i think we need to start getting to the bottom of what mr. trump's relationship with the kremlin really, which you said, lawrence, he is at enormous pains over any subject to obfuscate, to make complicated when really the story here is very simple if we're willing to see it with open eyes. >> and david, from first thing this morning in tweets, donald
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trump accepted what the russian statement was publicly about this, which is of course we had nothing to do where it, and everything in that buzzfeed report is false. so say the russians. therefore donald trump felt case closed. that proves the case. >> yeah, i don't think people need to get so far ahead of the plain facts. maybe the russians have compromising information on donald trump. maybe they don't. maybe he is beholden to individual russian investors in some way. maybe he is not. here is what you see. his politics, his foreign policy internationally aligns with putin's on everything from crimea to ukraine to sierra. and his methods of governing at home have an authoritarian smack to them like putin's. the smack to jim acosta, the private bodyguards to eject a press reporter from a press conference. trump admires and likes the way vladimir putin governs. it may be no mcguffin at the end of this mcguffin trail you.
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don't need some big secret to see something very wrong is happening to the american government. the russians are wrong about crimea. they're wrong about ukraine. what they're doing in syria is an atrocity. and no, we do not need private bodyguards around the president of the united states. he should accept the secret service and its lawful protection the way his pretty says verse done. >> mcguffin is going to have to be the final word. look it up, kids. it's a screenwriting term. thank you all. really appreciate it. coming up, at least one republican senator is not convinced that rex tillerson should be the next secretary of state. and it only takes one republican senator to stop this nomination. yeah, so mom's got this cold.
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♪ we are farmers. bum-pa-dum, bum-bum-bum-bum ♪ it only takes one. if the democrats on the senate foreign relations committee do not vote for rex tillerson for secretary of state, it would only take one republican vote defecting to the democrats to block tillerson's nomination in the committee. and as of tonight, there is one republican holdout on that committee. >> have you decide how you're going to vote? did he answer your questions adequately about russia in particular? >> well, many of his answers were concerning to me. but there is a chance now to submit some questions in writing, which we'll do as well. and we'll good back and i'll consider everything. i'll read through it again and make a decision here very soon. >> are you leaning one way or another? >> i wouldn't characterize it that way yet. >> did you make a decision to vote against him? you could stall this nomination in committee. are you prepared to the one republican vote no? >> well, i'm prepared to do what is right. >> rex tillerson faced many
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tough questions today. but no one was tougher than republican senator marco rubio who now holds the key vote in the confirmation of donald trump's secretary of state. >> based on your knowledge of russian leaders and russian politics, do you believe these activities could have happened without the knowledge and the consent of vladimir putin? >> i'm not in a position to be able to make that determination. >> someone is conducting cyberattacks against the united states and we pass a law that authorizes the president to sanction them or actually imposes these sanctions as mandatory, would you advise the president sign it? >> i think it is that second element that you just describes that leaves the executive branch no latitudes or flexibility in dealing with a broad array of cyberthreats. >> let me ask you this question. is vladimir putin a war criminal? >> i would not use that term. >> well, let me describe the situation in aleppo, and perhaps that will help you reach that conclusion. in aleppo, mr. putin has directed his military to conduct
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a devastating campaign. he has targeted schools, not just markets, not just assisted syrians in doing it, his military has targeted schools, markets and other civilian infrastructure. it has resulted in the death of thousand of civilians. this is not the first time mr. putin is involved in cam pines of this kind. back when he was just appointed prime minister before he was elected, and i'm sure you're aware of that period of time, there was a series of bombings. and they blamed it on the checkens. and mr. putin personally said he would punish them. so he ordered the air force to bomb the checken capital of grozny. they hit hospitals, outdoor markets. they used thermobaric and explosive and burned the air breathed in by people hiding in basements. they used cluster munitions. he used battlefield weapons against civilians. when it was all said and done an estimated 300,000 civilians were killed and the city was completely destroyed.
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by the way, there is credible body of reporting, open source and other that this was all those bombings were part of a black flag operation on the part of the fsb. and if you want to know the motivation, here is what it is. putin's approval ratings before the attacks against the checkens was 31%. by mid-august of that year it was 78% in just three months. so based on all this information, and what is publicly in the record about what has happened in aleppo and the russian military, you are still not prepared to say vladimir putin and his military have violated the rules of war and have conducted war crimes in aleppo? >> those are very, very serious charges to make. and i would want to have much more information before reaching a conclusion. >> there is so much information out there. it should not be hard to say that vladimir putin's military has conducted war crimes in aleppo. i find it discouraging your inability to cite that, which i think is globally accepted. >> will senator marco rubio stop rex tillerson? that's next.
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rex tillerson put exxon's interests before america's.. i'm not here to represent the us government's interest. instead, tillerson sided with putin. with billions in russian oil deals... he opposed us sanctions on russia... ...for war crimes forced to pay hundreds of millions for toxic pollution... ...putting profits ahead of our kid's health. tell your senators to reject rex tillerson. and protect american interests not corporate interests.
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huntington post, and adviser to senator rand paul's campaign. elise, many surprises in that areas, including donald trump has not discussed russia with his future secretary of state. if, if he can get by marco rubio's vote, is it possible that marco rubio will take this stand against rex tillerson in this committee? >> it's going to be really interesting to see how rubio plays this tomorrow. because it's going to -- how he votes for tillerson after tillerson gave answers that are just in direct contrast with what everything that marco rubio leaves in, human rights and expanding freedom and democracy around the world, it's going to be interesting to see if he can step up to the plate and make that tough call. i was shocked, though, that this was the -- that tillerson was so shaky on how he answered a lot of the questions today. this was really the huge issue going in. that if you're preparing tillerson to go before the senate foreign relations committee, you're going prep him about human rights, responding to the questions, his background as a businessman.
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how he is going to navigate human rights now that he is going to be secretary of state. and he wasn't well prepared on that point. >> michael, he did get all the answers right on cuba for marco rubio. said he would recommend against the president signing a repeal of the embargo and so forth. so is that enough for marco rubio since obviously we showed a great deal of disfigures that marco rubio had with rex tillerson today? >> no, i don't think so. the question about vladimir putin and about whether or not he was a war criminal and some of the other nations that marco rubio brought up, that didn't satisfy him at all. you just watch his face, and he was not pleased. and even on cuba, i don't believe that tillerson pledged to completely undo the new policy that the obama administration has put in place. so there is still a niggling doubt about that. >> let's listen to senator ed markey, a democrat showing that there was no root to confirmation in that hearing for rex tillerson without
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disagreeing with donald trump. >> mr. tillerson, do you agree with president-elect trump when he said, quote, it wouldn't be a bad thing for us if japan, south korea, or saudi arabia acquired nuclear weapons? >> senator, i don't think anyone advocates for more nuclear weapons on the planet. >> donald trump said it would not be a bad thing. do you agree with that or disagree with that? >> i do not agree. >> elise, he did not dodge that one. and markey put it in a way that there wasn't much dodge room. do you agree with that or not agree with it? >> and he had a few other points that he contrasted with donald trump. specifically, he said that he supported the transpacific partnership. and he also -- this just with that, with not supporting more nukes in the world, you've got some key contrasts. we've seen that with several cabinet nominees in their initial hearings.
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i think it's when you have donald trump who is so all over the place, you're inevitably going have this kind of discord come to the surface. >> michael, i can't think of a series of confirmation hearings in which this has been a richer opportunity to show very specific disagreements between the nominee and the president as ed markey did today on nuclear weapons. >> no, i can't remember one like that either. but part of that is that sort of interesting dynamic, if you want to call it interesting, where trump would say things, and there are people throughout who say oh, he didn't really mean that. these are things that nobody really means. so when you disagree with him, it's not that terrible if you don't call him a bad name if you do it. >> it turns out words have meaning in senate confirmation hey, we're supposed to look into his heart an not what he said. >> thank you both for joining us. coming up, the head of the government ethics office responds to donald trump's and his family's plan to handle conflicts of interest.
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one a day women's in gummies and tablets. yesterday's quinnipiac poll shows 53% of americans think donald trump is not honest. and it turns out that donald trump's plan for eliminating conflicts of interest in his business depends entirely on how honest you think he is. >> my two sons, who are right here, don and eric are going to be running the company. they are going to be running it in a very professional manner. they're not going to discuss it with me. >> after that, the head of the office of government ethics gave this response. >> the plan the president has announced doesn't meet the standards that the best of his nominees are meeting. and that every president in the past four decades has met. the idea of setting up a trust to hold his operation businesses adds nothing to the equation. this is not a blind trust. it's not even close. i don't think divestiture is too
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high a price to pay to be the president of the united states of america. >> joining us now ron klain, former chiefs of staff to al gore. and columnist with the daily beast. he is the author of "the making of donald trump." ron, you have dealt with these kinds of situation before. probably nothing this massive. but getting people through senate confirmation hearings who had to get through that office of government ethics standard. what do you make of the donald trump plan announced today? >> well, the donald trump plan isn't a plan at all. as many people said today, it's not blind. and it's not something we can trust. he is basically going to continue to allow private interests to put money in his pocket through his business. he is going to have his sons run the business. and he is going to profit from it. and the possibility of corruption and conflict of interest is rife. he ran for president. he is going to be our president. he needs to get out of the business and get back to the matter of running our country. >> david, donald trump says
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today he promises he'll just never discuss business with his sons. >> yes, right. and i'm never going to discuss business with my children either. that's absurd. and donald himself today made something very revealing about this. he said he was approached by a man he went at great length as a friend from dubai who offered him $2 billion to go into a development with him. trump didn't say i told him to get the hell out of my office and not darken my door. he sent a message who wants to put money in the family's pockets, don't come to me. go talk to my sons. >> what do you make of how the clause affects donald trump now? i thought his lawyer made an interesting point today. for example, on the washington hotel saying that if someone from a foreign country or anyone goes in there and pays for hotel room, pays the market rate for that hotel room, that that's just a fair trade.
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that's not a gift. that's not an emoll meant. what did you make of that point? >> it's just wrong. it's any payment, whether it's a gift or whatever from a foreign government. and that hotel is going to be open for business. foreign governments aren't just going to book hotel rooms there. they'll throw lavish parties and put all kinds of money into donald trump's pocket there is nothing that protects against conflicts or bnd trusts in the trump plan. the only specific promise he had made, that he would stop building new hotels if he became president he took back and said his company is going to build new fa stoynlts domestic side. that means banks will be lending his company money. people will be financing and pirming these things. the opportunity for all kinds of horrible conflicts and corruption are just rife in the plans he outlined today. >> david, it's clear that divestiture, which is to say selling the assets as the office of government and ethics would
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prefer is the cleanest way, but nothing is perfect. because for example youcan iningratiate yourself by overpaying. >> there is a solution to that. you put everything into a trust. an independent person with a history of being a business broker then unlines and sells all of the assets. and there is full disclosure of the prices that were paid. that would i think actually solve the problem. but donald doesn't care about this. to donald, this is silliness on the part of you people who talk about ethics and what not, you know. i'm president now. and people don't want to see my tax returns or anything else. and stop questioning me. including you people in the intelligence services. >> ron klain, david cay johnston, thank you both for joining us tonight. i appreciate it. >> thanks, lawrence. >> thank you. coming up next, why senators save their best jokes for the
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these are the nights in the senate when the best jokes get told. it's a voter round tonight for the budget resolution, the night when the senators have long periods of time to actually talk to each other without much to do there on the senate floor. see there? they're talking to each other down there. they don't have a lot to do between votes. so almost all of the best jokes that you will ever hear from senators begin with so and so told me this one during a vote-a-rama. it always begins the same way. but tonight's vote-a-rama is about the serious thing the congress will try to do this year, repeal and replace obamacare. nothing than is fun. nothing about that is easy. the repealing part will take at least two different major pieces of legislation. and so will the replacement part. and no one know what's the
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replacement part, or more importantly when the replacement part will suddenly appear. no one knows what it is or when it will exist. donald trump is doing everything he can to make repeal and replace as difficult as possible, and so are rand paul and other republican senators who are demanding that the senate vote on replacement at the same time that it votes on repeal. >> we're going to be submitting as soon as our secretary is approved almost simultaneously, shortly thereafter a plan. it will be repeal and replace. it will be essentially simultaneously. it will be various segments, you understand, but it will most likely be on the same day or the same week. but most likely the same day. it could be the same hour, the degree of legislative difficulty
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there verges on the impossible. nothing like that has ever been done. and mitch mcconnell knows that. which is why he and house republican leadership have been floating the idea of repeal and delay. simply repeal obamacare and delay the enactment of the actual repeal for as many as a few years in order to use that time to figure out something that republicans have never been able to figure out in the seven years they've been thinking about it. and that of course is how to replace obamacare. the republicans' rude awakening on obamacare is upon them right there on the senate floor. that's next.
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let me be very clear. this budget resolution is not repeal and replace. it is one thing and one thing only. the first step of repealing the affordable care act, ripping health care away from 10s of millions of americans and throwing our health care system into chaos. >> joining us now ana marie cox, kurt andersen the host of 360. chuck schumer said in his first interview it was done in this building with rachel maddow, the republicans just might get stuck, and they might not get anywhere. and no one really listened to him when he was saying that. but the evidence is mounting they are already spinning their wheels in the mud here a little bit. >> yeah, i think the only good news to take out of the trump press conference is that besides
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the fact that buzzfeed is clearly going to succeed, is that his answer to the questions about the aca and obamacare was so incoherent that i think it gives us hope that the aca will survive. because he is basically setting up the republican congress to fail. like you cannot pass a replacement that is both cheaper and better coverage. you literally that is impossible. that's a financial impossibility. ask them to explain it to you if you must. i think what he is going to do is set up situation where they can't produce a replacement plan that fits the criteria that trump says. and trump actually, the congresswoman who said that they're going to do something -- >> congresswoman rogers. >> yes, mcmorris roger. >> which is exactly the phrase that killed obama on obamacare. nobody is going to have to change their covere. it is the dog whose caught the car and then the dog being the republican caucus is going to be run over by the car.
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it's -- i just -- >> or dragged. i think we're going to be dragged along. >> i don't think how -- first of all, the idea that there is going to be replacement that they're just trying to figure out enacted simultaneously with this repeal? that is an impossibility. and there are two different legislative vehicles that you need. and they're going to have to move weeks apart at the closest point in the calendar. but we see rand paul, one of the first cracks i noticed last week. rand paul just saying -- he doesn't have to say i'm opposed to what you're doing. all he has to say is we need to do the replacement at the same time. that's the republican code language for what you're trying to do is crazy. and if you hold them to that rule, you are in effect blocking them. that's what rand paul i think knows. >> if you hold them to everything else that they have said. ironically, the only thing that trump has said that has made sense is doing both medicare drug buys.
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which is a completely liberal socialist solution. >> you would think that his -- we were talking before, that his adviser jared kirshner, whose brother runs a health insurance company in new york city that my daughter gets her insurance from. >> full disclosure here. >> he is an obamacare profiteer. so jared kirshner doesn't say mr. president, dad, this can't work for reason x, y and z. >> are they just not worried about donald trump promises? we've already seen that mexico will pay for the wall. that has evaporated. and they don't seem worried about that. they don't seem to feel like they're going to be held to that promise. they're just going to be held to doing something on the southern border. and is that the way the trump camp is betting that the whole obamacare thing plays, and that whatever donald trump says about the details doesn't matter? >> well, the alarming thing if we can take it as somewhat good news about his confusion of the
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very nature of insurance might mean that the aca survives? the underlying bad news is since he first stoned national stage, which he doesn't know the -- hell, heck he is talking about most of the time. and he can't be trusted on anything. we don't know if he means what he says from moment to moment. his own spokespeople said we don't know what he means moment to moment. >> that is a good example. ted cruz knows exactly what he thinks about everything. i remember people debating would it be better to have trump as the republican president because he actually doesn't believe anything and is soft on all these issues. >> the thing about aca there are 20 million people that have subsidized health insurance by medicaid or subsidies who if you repeal it, and don't replace that, there is going to be millions of unhappy people. >> not unhappy. dead people. and something close to my heart that doesn't get mentioned sheer one of the big revolutions of
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the aca was coverage for drug addiction care and mental health treatment if that goes away, we're in the middle of an opioid epidemic that is killing more people than guns. if trump's wishy-washiness and lack of a moral core means we get to keep aca, sure. that's a good thing. >> i started this with senators joking on the floor tonight. ana marie, i'm really glad you brought this down to the level of people out there who depend on this. kurt andersen, thank you. we'll be right back.
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well, good evening once again from our headquarters here in new york. and what kind of day was today in american politics? today, for starters, we watched marco rubio go after trump's nominee and we watched donald trump call cnn fake news while comparing u.s. intelligence to nazi germany. it was as if he was making up for the 168 days that gone by

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