tv The Last Word With Lawrence O Donnell MSNBC January 12, 2017 10:00pm-11:01pm PST
now time for last call with lawrence o'donnell. >> rachel, next time i get a cold, charlie bratman. >> yes, sir bp roger that. >> good evening, charlie. it'll be one of those. >> thank, lawrence. a day of breaking fbi news. breaking news about what the fbi told donald trump and breaking news about what a new investigation of the fbi director himself. a new investigation about why he made public further investigation of hillary clinton's e-mails days before the election. an election that discovered nothing. we will get to all of that but first donald trump's poll numberes have been ignored this >> fbi director james comey took trump aside and spoke with him one on one about the existence of the unverified allegations against him.
>> he has said that he is not aware of that. >> okay. >> that concerns me. >> that's not true. >> what is not true? that i'm concerned? >> no, that i see. >> okay. i assure you. >> as you know, i have a no conflict situation because i'm president. >> can we just take a second here, guyes. like how is all of this real? >> don't be rude. >> i don't think he's done enough and he may sink in the swamp. >> the best vice president america's ever had, mr. joe biden. >> the vp with the highest civilian honor, medal of freedom. >> this also gives the internet one last chance to talk about our bromance. >> mr. president, there's not one single solitary ounce of entitlement in you. >> we don't make good deals any more. >> yeah, le how we traded obama for the world's largest troll doll. terrible deal. terrible.
>> you are not alone. you are not alone if you are tired of what kellyanne conway tries to get way with in her interviews. it turns out the fbi or someone in the fbi or intelligence community who knows what the fbi director has said to donald trump is tired of what the trump staff usually in the person of kellyanne conway tries to get away with. >> we should be concerned that intelligence officials leaked to the press and won't go and tell the president-elect or president of the united states himself now, mr. obama, what the information is. they would rather go tell the press. >> but the report was that the -- the press report was about them -- >> an allegation -- >> about them going to the president. >> and says they never briefed him on it. they appended two payes to the bottom of his -- >> i fwlef said they did brief him on it. >> he has said he is notware of it. >> okay, that concerns me. >> tonight, nbc news has confirmed that fbi director
james comey took mr. trump aside and spoke to him one on one about the existence of verification against him and told him the summary of claim was included on an addendum to the top secret report. that is a direct smackdown of kellyanne conway and what she has been saying this week. and the sources for that report, but what the fbi director told donald trump are, quote, multiple high level intelligence sources. you are not alone. multiple high level intelligence sources have decided that they're tired of donald trump or kellyanne conway lying about them. they aren't going to take it any more. you're not alone. you're not alone as you watch the end of one presidency and the shaping of another in confirmation hearings this week and you worry about who is taking over this government. you are not alone if you disapprove of the individuals donald trump has nominated to be
part of his cabinet. that was a question in a poll released this week that chose 40% disapprove of donald trump's cabinet choices. only 30% approve. and you are not alone if you disapprove of the nomination of jeff sessions to be the next of the united states. you're not alone if you disapprove of rex tillerson becoming the next secretary of state. least approved of secretary of state in history of confirmation hearings. 35% disapprove of rex tillerson of secretary of state. only 23% approve. not even a majority of republicans approve of rex tillerson as secretary of state. and that poll was completed before rex tillerson's testimony in which he said this when asked about the possibility of creating a government registry of all muslims in the united states. >> do you support creating a national registry for american muslims?
>> i would need to have a lot more information around how such an approach would even be constructed. and if it were a tool, for vetting, it probably extends to other people as well. other groups that are threats. to the u.s. but that's a -- it would just require me much more information around how that would even be approached. >> all the information he needs is in the constitution. a secretary of state who doesn't know that a government registry of every member after religion is unconstitutional. rex tillerson may be a well informed businessman but he is the least informed nominee ever questioned in a confirmation hearing for second of state. most secretaries of state, in our history, didn't have confirmation hearings. confirmation hearings became common only during the tell vaj age. the first we've seen is dean hatcherson in 1949. founding fathers didn't think
confirmation hearings were necessary because of course cabinet members would be chosen from a group of men, a small group of men and only men, so well known to the senate that no one would have any questions about them. no nominee for secretary of state has been less well known to the senate than rex tillerson and so the least experienced secretary of state in history has been nominated to advise the least experienced president in history, a president the country is not looking forward to. according to the most recent quinnipiac poll. you are not alone if you are not at all confident that donald trump will make things better for you or your family. that's what 35% of the people said in the quinnipiac poll. another 18% said they were not confident. that's majority saying they are not confident about donald trump and his presidency making things better. only 17% were very confident and 277% some what confident. you are not alone if you feel donald trump will do more to divide the country than unite
the country 54% believe donald trump will do more to divide the country. this quinnipiac poll that i'm reporting to you is a truly amazing and unprecedented poll for an incoming president. no incoming president has ever polled worse than donald trump. this would be the biggest news item of the week or one of the biggest news items of the week if this week had not been filled with president obama's emowingal and eloquent farewell address and donald trump's disjointed and angry press conference about leaks and donald trump being briefed the fbi director on the unproven allegations on him and his allegations of vladimir putin floating around washington and news media for months. a very, very big "newsweek." so the most important poll since election night has been ignored. it's a poll that changes your understanding of the country you live in. and who is living here with you? if you've wondered about how trump voters relate to donald
trump, you should wonder about that less because many of them don't relate to donald trump. so the question of, do you feel that donald trump is someone you can relate to, 68% said no. 35% of republicans said no. 61% of men said they cannot relate it donald trump. 74% of women said no they cannot relate it donald trump. that is the country you live in. would you say that donald trump is level-headed? 62% said no. 56% of men said no. 67% of women said no. that was before this happened. >> president-elect, since you are attacking our news organization -- >> not you. your organization is terrible. your organization is terrible. >> go ahead. >> quiet, quiet. >> go ahead. >> she is asking a question, don't be rude. don't be rude. >> can you give us a question. >> don't be -- no, i'm not going to give you a question. >> can you state -- >> you are fake news. go ahead. >> can you state categorically
-- >> mr. president-elect, that's not appropriate. >> would you say that donald trump cares about average americans, 52% say no. you are not alone if you don't think donald trump cares about average americans. do you think donald trump is honest? 53% say no. do you eye prove or disapprove of the way donald trump is handling his responsibilities as president-elect? 51% disapprove. one-fourth of republicans either disapprove or don't know. do you approve or disapprove of the way barack obama is handling his job as president? 55% approve and that's the highest approval rating president obama has had in the quinnipiac poll in seven years. is your opinion of donald trump favorable or unfavorable? only 37% say favorable. that has dropped sin the last quinnipiac poll on november 27 where donald trump had 4 favorable and 46% unfavorable. donald trump's numbers are going down. and his reckless tweeting in which he congratulates vladimir putin for being smart is not helping.
64% of voters say donald trump should close his twitter account. do you think donald trump will be a better president than president obama? 45% say he will be worse. only 34% say he will be better. that is less than the percentage of the vote that donald trump won on election night. do you think donald trump will be a great president? a good president? a not so good president? or a bad president? bad. bad got more responses than any other choice. 32% believe donald trump will be a bad president. 20% believe he will be not so good. 30% think he will be good. only 12% think he will be great. only 12%. i know it looked like everyone at the trump rallies believe he will be a great president, but apparently not. a majority believes donald trump will be bad or not so good as president. if you would like to see president obama continue to speak out on national issues after he leaves office, you are
not alone. 50% say they would like to see that. 46% say no. 12% of republicans would like to see president obama continue to speak out on national issues. and that poll was completed the night before president obama's farewell address. >> for now, whether you are young or whether you're young at heart, i do have one final a you as your president. the same thing i asked when you took a chance on me eight years ago. i'm asking you to believe. not in my ability to bring about change, but in yours. >> if you are on the losing end on election night, it might have felt like you lost everything. but you didn't. you lost one election. you did not lose your country. you live in a country that likes president obama more than donald trump. a country that relates to president obama more than donald trump.
a country that wants to hear more from president obama and less from donald trump especially on twitter. and if you are encouraged or discouraged by the results of this poll, you are not alone. democrats in congress will be encouraged in their resistance to donald trump and republicans in congress will be discouraged by this poll. a president's persuasive power with congress with his own party in congress is entirely dependent on his standing in the polls. and donald trump is losing support in the polls since election night. he will take the oath of office next week. a weaker politician than he was on election night. the donald trump in this poll is not the person america will want to trust with rewriting health care policy in this country. this poll tells us that those of you watching the inauguration next week who believe that donald trump is not level-headed, does not care about you, and is not honest are not alone. it tells us you are the
majority. this is as much your country as it has ever been. joining us now, joan walsh, national correspondent of the nation on political analyst and charlie sykes editor and chief an msnbc contributor. joan, this poll, when i was reading it when it came out on tuesday was absolutely stunning. overwhelmed with news since then. >> right. >> this is a picture that has been lost to the news media especially news media that wants to spend a lot of time wondering what democrats did wrong. how they have to change. what a genius donald trump was to win. >> big message election. >> yeah. all this to consider. and also within this discussion we have what happened with the fbi now tonight revealing that yes, director comey took donald trump aside one on one told him exactly -- >> right and revealing that once again he and kellyanne conway lied about it. that he was actually briefed. yeah. lawrence on the one hand,
obviously this is extraordinary. barack obama won 51% of the vote, just over 50%, he went to 69% the day before inauguration. this is when people fall in love with their president. it has always been him. he usually makes pretty main treatment appointments. occasionally one or two are controversial. and people bask in the feeling that okay we have turned the page. we like these rituals. republicans weren't so happy but even some republicans proved to him. this is really dangerous. and we should also point out that donald trump got a bump from, in his first few weeks, right? his favorable rating went over 50% for a few days. but then he started tweeting again. we saw his appointments and the general just mayhem of this administration became clearer and clearer. so you know, on the other hand, a lot of people who didn't trust him, dpt like him, didn't approve of him at the last
minute, pulled the lever for him. and we have to remember that. that's where, you know, many democrats, myself included, think that the comey intervention made such a difference. you see hillary clinton's poll going down a slide. so you know, there's just a lot to take in. but he's tanking before he is taking office. >> charlie, transition period is the easiest period in a president's life. it is the period where there is nothing at stake. i can't think of anybody who real got anything wrong during that period. i mean, when was there ever an angry outburs bait president-elect for example at a press conference. >> and we've never add president coming into office with so many questions. you know, facing about his abilities, about russia, about his ethics, all those things. he has one job. just one job, which is to reassure nervous americans, to reassure the public. including p em who pull the lever for him because he wasn't hillary clinton and he is apparently not interested in doing that. again, i don't know how many
times we have to say that but donald trump is not going to be pivoting. by the way, i i did think he beat the media yesterday. but on the other hand his absolute unwillingness to become president bl or modify his behavior. but don't, by the way, don't gloss over what he is accomplishing. how i hijacked the concept of fake news, turned it on its head, drained that of all meaning whatsoever. if he can't brow beat the media he will delegitmize them. it is a very, very ugly transition period. >> but joan, the basis this poll shows is not enough. >> the basis is very small and the base will love it but other people will be frightened. charlie, i don't know exactly what you mean by he beat the media but he beat them with a stick maybe. but i don't know that he beat them. i think he shocked them. i think there are a lot of reporters who simply didn't know how to respond. i would have liked to have seen even more solidarity with jim acosta.
>> oh, no. i agree. and i don't think they fully grasped what they were up against. what i meant is that i thought buzz feed handed him the stick that he needed to do to turn all of that around. with the unsubstantiated allegations. this was a gift to him. i think the media has to understand they are facing something they never faced before. their poll ratings are just slightly above hemorrhoids right now. donald trump knows he can beat on the media. he can humiliate the media. discredit the media and not pay a significant political price at least for now with the base which, as you point out, is not the whole electorate. >> one price he is paying in this poll, john, is the view of his character and personality. and that he is not stable, not calm. all the things that people want in a president. >> right. >> i mean, the early morning and late night tweets that picking a fight with meryl streep. we could just sit here and
mention them for your whole hour. >> can't keep up. >> it is hard to keep up. but i think he is really showing people that he is not ready for this. he also feels -- he feels to me rattled by it. he has a big ego. but he doesn't feel prepared. that nonsense that, this is the least of his press conference, but i want to bring it up anyway. the nonsense he spewed about repealing obamacare and getting something bigger or better and roughly simultaneously, he waet no meat on the bones of his understanding of health policy. since he was elected. he doesn't know what they are doing over in the capital and it is just becoming clearer to people he is not driving this train. >> but he is bullying and intimidating. >> i'm wondering, as we have always wondered, where is their breaking point? and for example if the promises aren't delivered on obamacare, is that a a breaking point for trump supporters?
>> that's going to be a big one. but also as your poll numbers do point out, there are a lot of people who again voted for donald trump because it with a a binary choice because they were voting against hillary clinton. they held their nose. they are not necessarily pro trump. that is a soft amount of support and he could an tig niez them. so there's no question about it that that number is much softer than i think it looked on election night. that quinnipiac poll actually does expose real null verbilities and there are a lot of breaking point. >> thank you both for joining us. appreciate it. >> hank you, lawrence. >> thank you. >> coming up, justice department inspector general announced something they never announced before. the fbi director is now under investigation by the inspector general. and later, donald trump drifting towards unparalleled catastrophe. we have found several things that we have in common.
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here's what nate silver said in his post election polling analysis. i'll put it like this, hillary clinton would almost certainly be president-elect if the election had been held on october 27th, the day before the comey letter. the clinton campaign will join us to discuss the new investigation of the comey letter. be the you who doesn't cover your moderate to severe plaque psoriasis. be the you who shows up in that dress. who hugs a friend. who is done with treatments that don't give you clearer skin. be the you who controls your psoriasis with stelara® just 4 doses a year after 2 starter doses.
stelara® may lower your ability to fight infections and may increase your risk of infections and cancer. some serious infections require hospitalization. before treatment, get tested for tuberculosis. before starting stelara® tell your doctor if you think you have an infection or have symptoms such as: fever, sweats, chills, muscle aches or cough. always tell your doctor if you have any signs of infection, have had cancer, if you develop any new skin growths or if anyone in your house needs or has recently received a vaccine. aleryour doctor of new or worsening problems, including headaches, seizures, confusion and vision problems these may be signs of a rare, potentially fatal brain condition. some serious allergic reactions can occur. do not take stelara® if you are allergic to stelara® or any of its ingredients. most people using stelara® saw 75% clearer skin and the majority were rated as cleared or minimal at 12 weeks. be the you who talks to your dermatologist about stelara®. the justice department inspector general announced today that will review how the fbi handled certain aspects of hillary clinton's e-mail investigation ahead of the presidential election. michael hero wits said his
review will include james comey's press conference in july and two letters that fbi director sent to congress the first letter was sent 11 days before the election. the second was sent two days where the election. more than one exhaustive polling analysis including nate silvers indicated that those letters cost hillary clinton the election pl joining us now, former co-chairman of the clinton transition team and president for the center of american progress, that is to say clinton campaign, the teleprompter gets thing wrong once in a while. thank you. i know your campaign add strong reaction when you got hit with those comey letters. what is your reaction to the inspector general now saying we will investigate all of that? >> well, i think it is absolutely the right thing to do. truthfully this is a situation of better late than never. it's really unfortunate that it's taken so long for the -- for an investigation of the fbi to take place. what's happened here i think is
the fact that it came to light this week that bi had received a warrant to look at, to examine connections between the trump campaign. this came out in the guardian a few days ago. they came -- they received a warrant to investigate connections between the trump campaign and russia. so what we learned from that is that they had an investigation of russia and trump. which they never discussed. never leaked. never sent a letter to the congress about. and at the same time, they chose to go public in the last weeks of the campaign. violating two rules. one rule is not to affect the election and the other is to publicly discuss investigations. i think the untenable investigation of two campaigns and only discussing one of them with the public before an election made the inspector general finally take these steps that frankly should have happened in july of this year
when director comey violated procedures by actually holding his press conference. >> let's listen to what senator widen said to director comey this week when they were asking him about this fbi investigation of donald trump of the ties to russia. let's listen to this. >> has the fbi investigated these reported relationships and if so, what are the agencies finding? >> thank you, senator. i would never comment on investigations whether we have one or not in an open forum like this. so i can't answer it one way or another. >> will you provide an unclassified response to the question i asked and release it to the american people prior to january 20? >> sir, i'll answer any question you ask. but the answer will likely be the same as i just gave you. i can't talk about it. >> and so, near or there is there is the irony. but the fbi directors case on this is that the clinton case
was unique. that this was the situation in which something a had to be done that was outside of the normal procedures. and let me ask you this, let's imagine the world in which the fbi never revealed anything about its investigation of the clinton e-mail situation. would your campaign then be left with dealing with the problem of them never having released anything? warrant to look at, to examine connections between the trump campaign. this came out in the guardian a few days ago.
they came -- they received a warrant to investigate he violated that for hillary clinton. and kept to it for donald trump. i think it fundamentally should concern the public and shakes the faith of the public that fbi is not become a partisan, a partisan agency, which it has had history of and we should be deeply concerned about such a pattern. and i have to say, frankly, i do not understand why the fbi director has not explained this in more tail and more full i'm thankful for this inveigatio but the public should be deeply concerned about such partisan action by the fbi. >> quickly, what will be left with at end of this is at least some kind of recommendation i think for policy going forward. you're a lir, what would you
like to see be the policy that can be held to consistently in every case going forward? >> i would like the policy to be the policy that it's always been that you do not effect elections, you don publicly discuss these publicly discuss these, there should not be a rule that has an exception for one person whose name is hillary clinton. >> thank you very much for joining us. i really appreciate it. >> thank you. >> coming up, all experts are warning that the threat of nuclear war is approaching historic risk levels. if you thought the cold war was risky, we're not out of it yet. former secretary of defense will join us with his concerns. as ceo of exxonmobile...
rex tillerson put exxon's interests before america's i'm not here to represent the us government's interest. instead, tillerson sided with putin. with billions in russian oil deals... he opposed us sanctions on russia... ...for war crimes forced to pay hundreds of millions for toxic pollution... ...putting profits ahead of our kid's health. tell your senators to reject rex tillerson. and protect ameran interts not corporate interests.
after the united states dropped two atomic bombs on japan at end of world war ii, albert einstein said the unleashed power of the atom has changed everything, save our modes of thinking and we thus drift among unparalleled catastrophe. the dynamics of that draft will change dramatically on inauguration day when the biscuit is passed from president obama it donald trump. the discut is the nickname for a card, verification codes, for launching nuclear weapons. presidents are always supposed to have that in their pockets. standing steps away when the
biscuit is passed will be a military aide with the football. that the nickname for the brief case that carries the means for starting nuclear war. the brief case that always carries in it the potential to end life on earth as we know it. for the first time in history, the biscuit will be in the possession of a man who does not fear the awesome power of nuclear weapons. >> at some point we have to say, you know what, we're better off if japan protects itself against this maniac in north korea, we're better off, frankly, if south korea will start to protect itself. >> saudi arabia -- >> saudi arabia, absolutely. now, wouldn't you rather in a certain sense have japan hav nuclear weapons when north korea las nuclear weapons. nuclear ould be off the table but is there a time, possibly. why do we make them? >> william perry is one of the people who helped bring this country back from the brink of
nuclear war. it was his job to study cia photographs of soviet missiles in cuba during the 13-day cuban missile crisis of 1962 and every night he went to bed during those 13 days, he felt like the world could come to an end tomorrow. he served as secretary of defense for president clinton and believed then that nuclear threat was behind us. soviet union had collapsed. he was working hard with the russians to help dispose of the left over arsenal of nuclear weapons and to reduce the united states arsenal of nuclear weapons. we now have a russian leader who wants to build up his arsenal and an incoming president into the united states who wants to do the same thing. he is as worried about nuclear weapons as of now. william perry from stanford university and secretary of defense from 1994 to 1997, thank you for joining us tonight secretary perry. appreciate it. >> thank you, lawrence.
>> tell us about where you think the world now stand in terms of that brink that you lived on for so many decades, that brink of the use of nuclear weapons, if not, nuclear war. >> today i believe that the likelihood of a nuclear catastrophe is actually greater than it was during the cold war. >> why is that? is that because there are more dispersed nuclear weapons and that the people in control of them do not have the same incentives that united states and soviet union have? >> no, i think it is primarily because dangers, the nuclear dangers from the cold war, are returning with the increasing hostility between the united states and russia. beyond that there are two new dangers. the danger of nuclear terrorism and as always, beside nuclear terrorism, there is a possibility of a regional nuclear war. none of those existed during the cold war. those are new. >> and the nuclear terrorism, how close do you judge us
scientifically to be from the possibility of nuclear terrorism, how complex would it be to pull off a nuclear terrorist act? >> i think of all the dangers we're facing, that the one that is most likely. all that's stopping, we know that nuclear terror groups would like do this. we know that al qaeda wanted to do it. we believe that isil wants to do it. all this stops them is getting their hand on the nuclear fuel. if they can get that, they could make a bomb and that bomb would end up in one of our cities. >> what's the nominee for secretary of defense said about this today. i guess we don't have the video of it. he said, i consider the nuclear deterrent to be critical because we don't ever want to use those weapons. secretary perry, you know james mattis, first of all, your score card of him as potential secretary of defense pf and your understanding of his view of this issue?
>> i know him very well. he worked for me for two years when i was secretary of defense asthma reason colonel. he worked directly in my office. the last few years he's been at stanford. i've had many meeting he. i think he is a man of great intelligence and great integrity. >> do you think he has the right view, does he share your kind of view of the nuclear brink? >> i believe -- i can't say he shares my view, i can't say that for certain. but i believe he is conscious of nuclear dangers and is knowledgeable about problems we're facing. >> how would you weigh the risk factor after president of the out who made the kinds of comments about nuclear weapons that incoming president trump has? >> i must say, i am concerned with the fact that one man, president of the united states, whoever that president is, is the only person that can start a nuclear war. that one person can start a
nuclear war. that's been a problem, in my mind, a with all presidents and of course a problem with this president. >> and is there any method that you can conceive of that would somehow remove that power from the presidency as we have discussed on this program in past. sometimes with the possibility of incoming nuclear attack. a president would have six minutes or less to decide to retaliate. in that kind of scenario, is there any alternative to just entrusting all of this power in one person? >> with the constitution of course faces responsibility for making war with the cons gres. the president can propose the congress has to approve of it. on the other hand, you can say, in the case after nuclear war and veents may happen to fast. ere is no timeor congress. what we can do is require at the president not launch a nuclear war absent an actual nuclear detonation in our
country. in other word, unless we are under attack, unless it is a hundred percent evidenced we are under attack, we've had at least three false alarms in the past where our system warned us a nuclear attack was under way. i, myself, got a telephone call in the middle of the night telling me there was a nuclear attack. 200 icbms were on their way from the soviet union to the united states. it turned out to be false alarm and happily the north american commander recognized it as a false alarm. but had he not, we would have gone to the president and he would have had maybe five, six minutes to decide whether to launch on the fear that the missiles might be named at our rcbms and might be destroyed. one could insist that president could not exercise that power until a nuclear attack had actually taken place, undisputably, on the united states. >> secretary william perry, so
much more to learn about this. it's in your book "my journey at the nuclear brink." thank you very much for joining us tonight. really appreciate it. >> thank you. >> coming up, democrats made history in the senate last night. but not the way they wanted to. robert riesh will join us. you totanobody's hurt, new car. but there will still be pain. it comes when your insurance company says they'll only pay three-quarters of what it takes to replace it. what are you supposed to do? drive three-quarters of a car?
great, okay. wouldn't it be great if everyone said what they meant? the citi® double cash card does. it lets you earn double cash back: 1% when you buy, and 1% as you pay. the citi double cash card. double means double. if you are watching the senate floor last night as sds the clock approached 1:00 a.m., as i always do, you saw something we've never seen before. organized violation of senate rule 12 on the senate floor. senate rule 12 says when the yays and nays are ordered the neighbors of senators shall be called alphabetically and each senator shall without debate call his consent or descent. when your name is called you are only allowed to speak one word. here is what happened when democrats voted last night on budget resolution that is the first step in the repeal of
obamacare. >> on behalf of tens of millions of americans, who will -- whether they're in the exchange or not, if aca is repealed, i vote no. >> on behalf of 14-year-old -- >> debate is not allowed during vote. it is not allowed during debate. senate will ignore. debate is not allowed. senate will be in order. floor will continue to call the role. the clerk will continue to call the role. >> mr. white house, no. >> i vote no on behalf of the more than -- >> debate is not allowed during a vote. senate will be in order and the clerk will continue to call. >> madam clerk, on behalf -- >> the senate will be in order. debate is not allowed. senate will be in order. senate is out of order. the senator is out of order.
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and then we'll talk, ok? nice baby. let's go. here comes tom #5! nothing, stops us from doing right by our customers. ally. do it right. whoo! look out. up to 30 million americans will lose their health care, with many thousands dying as a result. because you have no health insurance and you can't go to a doctor or a hospital, you die. >> joining us now, robert reich, former labor secretary under president clinton. from the university of california at berkeley and author of "saving capitalism for the many, not the few." robert, you're a veteran of one of these health care wars, the clinton campaign to reform health care. you have seen how it is. that one failed. the obama version squeaked through by one vote in each body.
it seems to me that the repeal procedure is almost as difficult, if not more difficult, than the procedure that both the clinton bill failed to get through and that the obama bill did get through in actually passing one of these things. >> part of the problem, lawrence, is procedure. there are a lot of opportunities for democrats to block and tackle. but larger problem is political. that is, what are you going to replace obamacare with. you can't very easily just leave 24 or 25 million americans high and dry. yet that's what the repeal would do if there's not a replacement. and president-elect trump keeps saying he want it replaced. paul ryan keeps saying, well there will be a replacement. they've been trying to come up with a replacement now for six or seven years. they have not come up with a replacement. there are good reasons for that, because it is very difficult to replace something that is as
complete and kind of intricate and the affordable care act. >> let's listen to what senator ron johnson republican said about the replacement today. >> so exactly what is the replacement plan that you would favor? >> well, again, i will freely admit that republicans and the house and senate don't have total agreement on exactly what that thing is going to be. but the elements are pretty common. >> robert reich, the elements we've heard do not come close. not even vaguely close to preserving coverage for the people who have it now. which is a stated goal of donald trump's, that no one should suffer in the repeal of obama care. >> and that's exactly the problem the republicans are going to be facing. now there are some republicans in the house and some in the senate saying, let's repeal it and then let's kind of build in a replacement over time.
let's give ourselves two or three years. there are other republicans and again the president-elect has said this, no, we've got to reple right away, as sooas we repeal, we replace. but there is kind after logical impossibility they face. i mean, there are certain provisions of this fact, such as providing care for people with preexisting conditions, that depend on other provisions.act, providing care for people with preexisting conditions, that depend on other provisions. such a. >> as mandate, even young people, to pay into health care. if young people don't pay in, they are healthy, most of them, their payments support a system that permits preexisting conditions to also be funded. without one you can't have another. and a conundrum facing taxes that pr side subsidies for 80% of people receiving obamacare or affordable care act oont on the
exchanges. there are taxes on the very wealthy. this is a very progressive tax system. if republicans repeal it, who gains? well the people at the top make a huge amount of money. the people at the bottom, working class especially donald trump's constituents, as it were, they are going to be hurt very badly. >> and just to keep that connective tissue clear, the reason of course you have to have subsidies is that have you a mandate and the mandate can be falling on people who cannot afford health insurance without the subsidies so you're mandating them to buy something they can't afford. that's why subsidies come in. as you point out, mandate has to be there once you say you want to allow people with preexisting conditions to be able to get health insurance. again, preexisting conditions is something donald trump has said repeatedly he wants it preserve but he doesn't seem to understand that that means
preserving the mandate and prederveing the subsidies. >> exactly. so it is all built into a kind of a system that any given part, if you remove it or repeal it, you've got to come up with something else and the republicans don't want to do that because they don't know how to do that. in fact, one of the great ironies here, lawrence, is that only real system you can come up with that provided 20, 25 million people, the heal mg care they now have that they would otherwise lose when republicans repeal obamacare, affordable care act, only system is a single payer plan. of course republicans never would go along with a single payer plan. but that is the, as a practical matter, that's the only alternative for making sure that all these people have health insurance, health care. as bernie sanders said, without health insurance we are going to
tragic as that. data supports that. >> there are many impassioned speeches on the senate floor last night. i wish we had time for more of them. but i'm afid we ll hear many more of them as this year goes on. robert reich, thank you for joining us. >> thank you, lawrence. >> coming up, on msnbc, joe biden told andrea mitchell about that special relationship between joe biden and the president. before fibromyalgia, i was active. i was energetic. then the chronic, widespread pain drained my energy. my doctor said moving more helps ease fibromyalgia pain. he also prescribed lyrica. fibromyalgia is thought to be the result of overactive nerves. lyrica is believed to calm these nerves. for some, lyrica can significantly relieve fibromyalgia pain and improve function, so i feel better. lyrica may cause serious allergic reactions or suicidal thoughts or actions. tell your doctor right away if you have these, new or worsening depression, or unusual changes in mood or behavior.
or swelling, trouble breathing, rash, hives, blisters, muscle pain with fever, tired feeling, or blurry vision. common side effects are dizziness, sleepiness, weight gain and swelling of hands, legs and feet. don't drink alcohol while taking lyrica. don't drive or use machinery until you know how lyrica affects you. those who have had a drug or alcohol problem may be more likely to misuse lyrica. with less pain, i can be more active. ask your doctor about lyrica.
so we know how to cover almost almoanything.hing, even a rodent ride-along. [dad] alright, buddy, don't forget anything! [kid] i won't, dad... [captain rod] happy tuesday morning! captain rod here. it's pretty hairy out on the interstate.traffic is literally crawling, but there is some movement on the eastside overpass. getting word of another collision. [burke] it happened. december 14th, 2015. and we covered it.
talk to farmers. we know a thing or two because we've seen a thing or two. ♪ we are farmers. bum-pa-dum, bum-bum-bum-bum ♪ before president obama surprised joe biden this afternoon with the presidential medal of freedom, the vice president told andrea mitchell about the special relationship he has with barack and michelle bam and about the bond their families have built over the past eight years. >> and i really, michelle, i think michelle is the finest first lady in history. i mean, history. there's been wonderful first ladies. but she is so smart. she is so, so descent. and she is so inclusive. i mean, so inclusive. looking at her, and the whole world looks at her, and she conveys such a -- she conveys america.
so it's been -- i'm going on too much, but i really -- i don't like them, i love them. and it's -- it's a mutual thing. we've had each other's backs and i'll be there for anything he wants. >> msnbc's live coverage continues into "the 11th hour" with brian williams. that's next. tonight, how smart is it for the president-elect to antagonize his own intelligence community as we learn more and more about what happened behind closed doors with donald trump? also, stacked up like jets over o'hare, three confirmation hearings for three major nominees. and tonight, a look at how some of trump's selections split with the boss. and an emotional moment that brought an emotional man to tears. the honor the president bestowed today on the man he calls his brother. "the 11th hour" begins now.