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tv   MSNBC Live  MSNBC  January 14, 2017 5:00am-6:01am PST

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good morning, everyone. a congressman is blasting president-elect trump one week before he takes office. >> i don't see this president-elect as a legitimate president.
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i think the russians have participated in helping this man get elected. and they have destroyed the candidacy of hillary clinton. i don't plan to attend the inaugurati inauguration. it will be the first one that i miss since i've been in congress. you cannot be at home with something that you feel is wrong. >> trump began to respond on twitter moments ago saying congressman john lewis should spend more time on fixing and helping his district. late friday the senate intelligence committee announced it would investigate trump's possible links to russia. the bipartisan effort will also look more broadly at any russian intelligence activity impacting the united states. in a ne interview with "the wall street journal," trump says he will likely keep some of president obama's recent russian sanctions in place unless russia cooperates on fighting terror and other key issues. his reasoning, if russia is really helping us, why would
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anybody have sanctions? also friday, the house took a first step towards repealing the affordable care act, passing a budget bill that could roll back major pars of that law. the senate passed a similar bill on wednesday. the next step for both houses writing legislation to formally repeal the act, a process that could take several weeks. our guests this morning, great to have both of you this morning. the wheels to overturn obamacare are in motion and have been for the past couple days. how risky is it going to be from a political standpoint for republicans that if they repeal this they now own the issue of health care in this country? >> they sure do own it and it's very risky and very confusing. right now we have no idea what republicans plan to cook up to replace obamacare.
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then you had trump saying there was this terrific new plan they would bring forward after his nominee for hhs secretary, tom price, is confirmed. he's talking about one strategy. the folks on the hill are kind of going their own way. there's no consensus on capitol hill for what this replacement plan should look like. frankly this notion that it can be done quickly is almost impossible. health care occupies a hume portion of the u.s. economy. millions of people will be affected. hospitals, doctor, pharmaceutical companies, insurance companies all want a say in how this looks. lit probably drag out for quite a bit. >> let me ask you about that point, millions of people affected. republicans cite that number of 20 million people as grossly exaggerated, saying 14 million are covered by medicaid as opposed to obamacare. will there be something in place to keep them from losing medicare? >> medicare expansion is
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obamacare. many states didn't go through with it because the supreme court said it was optional. states for governor who is opposed the affordable care act didn't expand medicaid, but many states did enabling all sorts of people toll get affordable coverage. to 20 million are people who are covered who wouldn't have it if not for the affordable care act. if there's not something in place to help those people, they're going out onto the market and without the money to buy private insurance. it's a scary situation. >> gabby, to that point op the democratic side, what dupg are the attitudes of democrats? do you think they're a little more concerned about preserving obamacare itself as a piece of legislation and his legacy?
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we will allow them to put forward something and see what that was, what that is, and what kind of changes that will institute but we'll do everything we can to preserve health care coverage that has been granted to millions of american who is didn't have it before. and if this blows up in the face of republicans, we're going to stand by and let them deal with the political consequences of that. >> let's switch gears and talk about what was a very busy week for confirmations for the incoming trump administration, in particular, we had the hearing of rex tillerson. i want to play the sound bite from marco rubio grilling the incoming or at least the secretary of state nominee, i should say, rex tillerson. take a listen. >> is vladimir putin a war criminal? >> i would not use that term.
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>> well, let me describe the situation in aleppo and perhaps that would help you reach that conclusion. >> i understand there is a body of record in the public domain. i'm sure there's a body of record in the classified domain, and i think in order to deal with a serious question like this -- >> mr. tillerson, the town of aleppo is in the public domain. >> i would want to be fully informed before advising the president. >> it is never acceptable for a military to target civilians, which is what's happened there, through the russian military. i find it discouraging your inability to cite that, which i think is globally accepted. >> for tillerson not to get confirmed, obviously we know the gop has a majority. when you see people like marco rubio grilling him, saying they're disappointed with some of hi answers, is there a possibility some gop members did not support that nomination? >> marco rubio showed some spine there that frankly a lot of his opponents and critics over the
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years were a bit surprised to see. but you know what, the difference between grilling tillerson and voting against him is huge. if he were to be the republican who who brought down the secretary of state nominee, that's something he'd have to carry with him. rubio was just re-elected in florida, he has a six-year term coming up. everybody seems he'll run for president again. he's figuring out strategically what makes most sense for him in terms of standing his ground, being the hawk that his supporters admire, but not angering trump supporters by taking down a very important nominee to thi incoming president. >> gabby, out of all the nominees that face tough questioning this week, what stood out to you the most and who do you expect will have a tough time beyond what we just saw there with tillerson? >> you know, i think ben carson did really well in his hearing to be secretary of housing and urban development. it seemed there were a number of areas in which he agreed with some of the democratic members of the committee before which he
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testified. going forward to next week, i'm really anxious to see the testimony that we're going to hear from betsy devos, the president-elect's choice for education secretary, primarily because of a number of the democratic member who is she's going to face questions from. you have senator elizabeth warren, bernie sanders, al franken, chris murphy, all on the senate health committee, and i think it's almost guarantee ld that she's going to be grilled by senator warren on student loan reform, on regulating the for-profit college industry, on school choice, what alternatives she would offer in place of common core. there are a number of questions and already a great deal of opposition to her nomination. that's going to be grueling. >> is that nor warren letter i think 16 pages she september over the betsy devos saying why she thinks she is not qualified. let me play a sound bite from president obama's last interview with "60 minutes." take a listen. >> i think everybody has to acknowledge, don't underestimate the guy because he's going to be
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the 45th president of the united states. the one thing i've said to him directly and i would advise my republican friends in congress and supporters around the country is just make sure that as we go forward certain norms, certain institutional traditions don't get eroded because there's a reason they're in place. >> so, beth, what do you think he means when he says don't underestimate trump? what's the warning there? >> well, nobody should underestimate trump. everybody underestimated him for a year and a half, never thinking he'd be the republican nominee, never thinking he would defeat hillary clinton. he showed his critics wrong, did all that. he is a formidable force and president obama is acknowledging it. i think that was an interesting sort of hint from the president to say, you know, institutional norms, there are so many of them, to respect the office of the president.
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it's very different than being candidate, being a real estate mow ghoul, a reality show host, and he's suggesting, mr. trump, this is an institution bigger than you and it's important to respect those norms and important for your republican folks in congress and your supporters to recognize that. that was a very clear message from the president. >> gabby, do you think president obama and the democrats are a little guilty of eroding some of those norms when they were in control of both the house and the senate as well as the white house early on in his administration with the affordable care act, with, you know, senate confirmation of cabinet picks being changed from two-third ma voter to simple majority? >> i absolutely do. this was a tremendous abuse of power theyed that during the first few years of the obama presidency. we definitely saw wit the health care law and democrats have obviously felt the consequences of shoving that down the american people's throats both in the 2014 election cycle and now in 2016. so i think that's one thing that republicans can probably learn from going forward not just the
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president-elect but also the republican congress, not to put legislation forward and pass legislation that is widely unpopular and that they don't know about that. >> we have to leave it at that. great talking with you. thank you for your insights this morning. now to some breaking news. 40 million americans in the path of a dangerous winter ice storm across the nation's midsection. overnight icy roads triggering this 20-car pileup in wichita, kansas. now, authorities are also worried about residents losing power because of ice building up on a lot of power lines and in some cases even snapping them t. to the west, heavy snowfall making driving conditions extremely dangerous. very scare oy moment. poor visibility led to a tractor-trailer hitting a snowplow. the driver has serious injuries after rolling several hundred feet down an embankment. blake mccoy is in st. louis, missouri, for thus morning with
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all those. how bad are the conditions out there right now? >> reporter: well, there is a lull in this storm, but take a look at the ice that is already coated in st. louis. check out this bush. a thip layer of ice and the concern is that as this ice builds up it becomes so heavy that it is able to topple trees and power lines. right now the major issues we've been seeing here have been on the road. very slick in places like missouri, oklahoma, and kansas this morning. i was driving across the state of missouri yesterday and witnessed a lot of slideoffs myself. when i was in springfield, missouri, i met a family that was without power. take a listen. are you worried about how long you'll be without power? >> yeah. we have young children in the house,o we're all worried and we've got animals. >> reporter: looking at just the ice that's already forming on trees and stuff outside, how concerned are you? >> very concerned. we don't know exactly how long it's going to be before we
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regain power. and with no heat in the house it kind of makes it hard. >> reporter: the good news is power as we understand it has been restored to most of those homes in springfield. the power companies have brought in a lot of extra crews from nearby states to help respond more quickly. this is day two of what's expected to be a three-day ice storm in the midwest. >> doesn't seem to be letting up. blake, thank you. let's get a big picture update on how this is playing out across the country. meteorologist bonnie schneider, as blake was saying we're still in two days of what is expected to be a three-day forecast. >> later today and tonight we'll see that ice peak into kansas city and oklahoma, so it's really just beginning. look at all the people under advisories. over 26 million americans facing a freezing rain advisory or ice storm warning. oklahoma and kansas but of course the downed trees and power lines means we could see
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outages lasting a long time with significant icing. that is all is moving to the north. for monday we'll be talking about nebraska, all the way into parts of the midwest facing freeng rain. let's get to what's happening right now. 28 degrees in wichita, kansas. temperature makes all the difference, and not just at the surface of the earth but all the different levels into the atmosphere where you have warm air kind of in the middle. unfortunately, it could lead to freezing rain because the ground is still very cold, so while the warm air overrides the colder air, as soon as it hits the surface, that rain freezes and we get a glaze of ice. how thick is the ice? that really depends on how bad of an impact we'll see. this is area i'm highlighting as crippling because we're going to see the most ice into western kansas, oklahoma, and even parts of nebraska. keep in mind that just a quarter of an inch of ice can make a huge difference because it can add weight of 500 pounds on top of a tree branch. so the tree branchs snap and
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fall. once you start talking about an inch of ice, that's when you're looking at devastating conditions. and unfortunately this ice storm has the potential to do just that. >> dangerous roads, freezing ice, snapping limbs and potential power outages, a recipe for dangerous conditions. bonnie schneider, thank you very much for that. you remembered fire -- fbi director james comey catches heat in a closed-door meeting with democrats. we'll speak to one of those lawmakers coming up. open road. healthy, free, the world before me, the long brown path before me leading wherever i choose. the east and the west are mine. the north and the south are mine. all seems beautiful to me. i'm phil mickelson, pro golfer. my psoriatic arthritis caused joint pain.
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welcome back. the fbi director is getting criticism from congress. democrats lashed out at him in a closed door hearing. the inspector general is now looking into the director's
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public statements on the investigation into hillary clinton's private e-mail server. this morning after that hearing it's clear that comey did little to calm his critics. take a listen. >> all i can tell you is the fbi director has no credibility. >> jim comey is an honorable person who i think made a bad decision. >> the american people are owed the tth and there is a great deal of evidence to say that this is an issue of high interest to the people. >> with me now is stanley pottinger, a former assistant attorney general in the civil rights division under president ford. great to have you with us this morning. let's go back and look at how this has all played out. one point that's stuck out for me is the fbi has a set of procedures and protocols that are in place. the director has even talked about those publicly, not commenting on an ongoing investigation, but from your opinion, from your expertise from where you sit, do you think he violated that protocol and
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those procedures in place? >> i personally don't think he violated it. what happened is that is the standard policy, not to comment, and that's what he has reasserted. he was in an awkward position because the attorney general had essentially, virtually recused herself from making any decision in the summer about the clinton investigation of the e-mails. that left him being both the investigator and the final decider, so to speak. and keep in mind, he was deputy attorney general. he is a former prosecutor in new york city as well as in the department of main justice. so he had prosecutorial discretion as a matter of experience as well as investigative experience as head of the fbi. i think he was left out there hanging to do it himself. >> so fair enough. to that point, when you compare it to what has happened with the issue of the russian links and the fact he's consistently saying i'm not going to comment on these investigations, he wouldn't comment on anything the fbi may have opened in the summer looking into connections between russia and the trump
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campaign at the time, was there anything there that would make you say there's been a double standard in the way he dealt with the clinton e-mail server and what he's doing with the russia/trump issue? >> sure, optically, completely ironic as senator king said. in fact, in truth, no, it's completely consistent because the policy is not to comment on an open investigation, whether it exists. the fact is that the clinton investigation had been closed. it was not an open investigation in october when the anthony weiner 650,000 e-mails were discovered. so that's the point at which you have to ask the question should he or should he not comment. >> what about the press conference he had where he said no charges will be filed against anybody in the clipton camp for the violation of the servers but then he admonished them, went after them in way he said they were unprofessional and handled the issue of the server. that seems also to be a break from protocol. if the investigation is closed then there are no charms being brought up, then why also
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admonish them? >> that's a fair question. i think he's going to have to explain that to mr. horowitz, the inspector general. my guess is that despite all the heat that's on comey right now, he would welcome -- will welcome the investigation because at last it will give him a chance to explain exactly what he was thinking and why he did what he did because his reputation for being careful and for being a man of integrity has never been questioned until recently, and i don't think that he just changed overnight. >> let's talk about this investigation. first of all, how long do you expect it to last? what's the worst-case scenario for director comey that could come out of it? >> that's a tough one to speculate about but because the inspector general doesn't have enforcement powers what he can do is publicize his findings and he probably should. those findings i suppose could be critical of comey and that would be the worst that could happen. i don't think anything more than that. >> do you think it will be a long investigation? >> i think so.
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i think it will be some months before this concludes. that would be my guess. >> and in a situation like this does the inspector general have the power to subpoena any of the communication the director was engaged in that could otherwise be considered classified between him and other agents investigating both of these? >> i don't know he has subpoena power but he doesn't need it. there is nobody who isn't going to cooperate because he is in the department and he says as a matter of department policy -- >> and the director welcomed the announcement of the inspector general. >> yeah. i think he really welcomed it. i don't think that was a matter of just being kind for the press. i think he really wants to see this happen. >> stanley pottinger, thank you very much. on the hot seat, trump attorney general nominee jeff sessions, can he overcome allegations of racism? we'll have that and much more.
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it has been the honor of my life to serve you.
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i won't stop. in fact, i will be right there with you as a citizen for all my remaining days. >> that was ploeb president obama in his farewell speech promising to stay involved after he leaves office. reflecting on his achievements, a final report card on the president's promises. it shows that he kept nearly half of the 533 promises that he made. for 28% of the promises he needed to reach a compromise but he failed to keep about a quarter of the promises that he made. the most kept promises dealt with foreign policy and health care, including what is now obamacare and keeping iran from building a nuclear weapon. serious questions are being asked this mornibout why trump's national security nominee contacted the russian ambassador here in the united states on the very same day that president imposed sanctions for hacking and even expelling 35 diplomats. what's trump's team's response to explain the phone calls?
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welcomeback, everyone. i'm ayman mohyeldin. at the half hour mark, breaking news, a winter storm sweeping through more than a dozen states across the nation's midsection. icy conditions are to blame for this 20-car pileup in wichita, kansas. the state's governor has even declared a state of emergency. and out west, heavy snowfall making driving dangerous in utah. poor visibility as you can see on this screen led to this accident when a tractor-trailer hit a snowplow. police say the driver is recovering with serious injuries. less than a week from inauguration day and some members of congress are planning to boycott events. georgia democrat john lewis says for the very first time since he's been in congress he will not attend the swearing-in of a president. he told nbc's chuck todd why in an exclusive interview that will air in full on "meet the press" tomorrow morning.
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>> you have forged relationships with many presidents. do you plan on trying to forge a relationship with donald trump? >> you know, i believe in forgiveness. i believe in working with people. it's going to be hard. it's going to be very difficult. i don't see this president-elect as a legitimate president. >> joining me now is congressman gregory meeks, a democrat who represents new york's 5th district. always a pleasure to have you on, sir. you probably guessed it, there was already reaction from donald trump on twit they are morning. let me put this up and read the tweet. congressman john lewis should spend more time on fixing and helping his district, which is in horrible shape and fall eight part, not to mention crime infested, rather than falsely complaining about the election results. all talk, no actionr results. sad. congressman, what's your reaction to donald trump's
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tweet? >> donald trump is observing american history. if there's anybody that has stood for democracy and making this country better it has been john lewis. he is all action. when donald trump was only thinking about donald trump and donald trump's family, john lewis was thinking about america and making america better. and donald trump better understand he'll have to deal with members of congress, both democrats and republicans, and this is no longer about donald trump. this is about the united states of america. >> let me ask you about congressman lewis' comments. do you agree with congressman lewis that donald trump is an illegitimate president? >> what i think is this -- i think what we need to do now, we need an independent commission established so that we can look into russia and whether or not there's been any involvements between the president-elect or his people or not. i think that we're at that point. all of even the unclassified information, it's clear that russia tried to mess with our
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democracy. and so therefore we've got to make sure that we preserve our democracy and let all of the facts come out. >> i take it you don't want to go so far as to say he's an illegitimate president as congressman lewis has said. >> i want to make sure we have an independent commission to that everything can be looked at and all of the people get to know everything. because this is the most nontransparent president-elect that we've ever had. we've not seen his income taxes. we don't know about his business dealings. he's not letting anything go. and at some point we've got to have some rules and this guy's trying to avoid all of them. do you plan on attending the inauguration? >> i haven't decided cred ed ye. >> what will it take to make um your mind? >> my soul searching. if i did sh, i have a responsibility and i respect the office of the presidency, even though i have a problem with who this president is because of what he has stated, you know, that you can only judge a person by their words and by his words
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it gives me a fundamental problem on whether or not he's going to move forward on behalf of the american people or not. but yet and still, i respect the office of the presidency, and i have a responsibility as a member of congress, and i'm not going to allow him, whoever's sitting in that office, to get around me and the responsibility i have as a member of congress. >> let's switch gears and talk about this hearing that took place yesterday with fbi director james comey. i know you can't comment on anything that took place in the meeting but take a listen to some of your colleagues and isle get your reaction. >> let's hope for the best. let's hope if any further information removes all doubt that the russians were not successful in affecting policy in the united states as they affected the politics in the united states. you've heard me say long before think of these briefings i wonder what the russians have on
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donald trump that they are so insistent on his election. >> can you tell us anything about the discussion? >> no. it's classified and we can't tell you anything. all i can tell you is the fbi director has no credibility. >> some very heated comments there. your reaction to that. did you hear anything in there that brought for you the questions of these election results that cast any doubt on it? >> well, listen, i think that the unclassified information says if you're looking or asking about polling and poll sites then those were not tampered with. but i think that there are issues that have to be thoroughly investigated. and i think that what you're hearing from members is -- and i know from myself is we want to make sure that for the sake of our democracy that we know everything that took place or did not take place. when you think of -- and this is -- i think this is for democrats as well as republicans, this is not a partisan issue, and that's why i
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don't think that it should be someone or just a committee within congress. it should be an independent commission like the 9/11 commission that can come so that the american people can feel confident that there's been nothing wrong with reference to a foreign government any relationships that may be with the president-elect. >> you heard representative waters say that james comey has lost credibility, there was "the wall street journal" op-ed saying he should resign for the sake of the country. talk to us about how heated it got in that meeting. do you support that? do you think james comey should resign? >> well, i'm not going to talk about what took place in the meeting. obviously, there were strong emotions. i had strong emotions about what was taking place at the meeting. for a number of reasons. more so now i think that this independent commission needs to happen. but i'm glad that the -- >> should comey resign? >> well, i'm glad that there's an internal review now because
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we've got to hope that all of the facts come out. there clearly seems to be some differences and ig regularities when you look at -- and i'm a former prosecutor myself, that after the fbi made a decision, you know, we go -- i don't even go to the end but to the very begin, after they made a decision there was nothing to go against hillary clinton then to make all the comments that was made thereafter, that's unprecedented. i never heard or seen anything like that from the fbi or any law enforcement agency for that matter. so i'd like to know what was going through his mind on that regard. >> some were saying that was because you had the attorney general, she had to recuse herself from the case give. the fact she had that meeting with former president bill clinton on the tarmac and that put director james comey until a very difficult position as someone who had to brief the public on these things. is there a double standard to how he handled the russian link and the e-mail server?
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>> no, because i think that there is -- what loretta lynch did was recused herself from making any final decision on the matter. and what mr. comey did was he did what he had to do, otherwise you would have had the final decision coming from the attorney general, but he went further than that. and there was no call for that. that is what broke protocol. and so he went above and beyond what his responsibilities were in my estimation. that does give me a problem, and we do need to get to the bottom of why he's done that. in a similar matter how he's conducted himself there before. so the internal investigation and question that's going on now i think is very appropriate. >> congressman gregory meeks, always a pleasure. >> good to be with you. in a moment, the justice report on the chicago police department accusing them of excessive force, bad training, lacks discipline. how will the public be protected in the future? and next hour, repealing and
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the justice department dropped an explosive report on the chicago police department yesterday after a 13-month investigation into the force. the justice department found systemic constitutional and civil rights violations by the cpd including the unnecessary use of excessive and lethal force which overwhelmingly impacts chicago's african-american and latino populations. joining me now is rashad obstruction of justice, the executive director of color of change. great to have you with us. >> great to be with you. >> were you at all surprised by any of the information in this report? >> we absolutely were not surprised. i mean, anyone who talks to people on the ground and communities follows the news, has seen the viral videos that have come out of police shootings knows that chicago has had an ongoing problem.
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it's really a mix of a couple of things but two things stood out for me not only in the report but in the things that have followed up. it's really the lack of leadership from the political class. you know, this past election cycle, color of change, a number of other organizations were very involved in getting rid of the attorney general, anita alvarez, and replacing her with someone who ran on the reform platform. from the former state's attorney anita alvarez, to rahm emanuel himself, we've seen a lack of leadership of elected officials at seeing their responsibility and holding police accountable and putting in the time of reforms and accountability measures. simply talking about training or talking about things without accountability mechanisms on the back end do not solve the problem. then we continue to see over and over again -- this has not just been a problem in chicago but a problem around the country that when reports like this come out, when issues ise, that ware not able to have the type of dialogue with line officers.
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i sat in a meeting with president obama across the table from the head of the fraternal order of police who basically said that all this talk of racial profiling around the country is new to him. and as we saw the chicago report came out, we saw the statements from fraternal order of police and the police -- the line police not taking responsibility, not coming to the table, to try to build the type of alliances that the community needs. >> so let me ask you this if i can and changing gears a little bit. this is based on a "washington post" report, that is citing that the eric garner case, obviously a case that gained nation wild attention, will not be resolved before attorney general loretta lynch steps down from her post at the end of this week citing sources familiar with that case. what kung r do you think will happen once the trump administration takes office on that case and on issues of enforcing some of the reforms at the chicago police department? is it common for these
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investigations to overlap from one investigation to another? >> it is common. unfortunately, we are not dealing with a change candidate in donald trump. we're dealing with a change the rules candidate. what we can expect out of this justice department i think is really scary for people who actually believe in rule of law, who believe in fairness. and jeff sessions, his nominee for attorney general, if he is to be coirmed, which my organization and others are advocating and mobilizing and asking people to call their senators to block that nomination, but if confirm ld he's made a strong nod he's not going to hold police accountable in the same ways, not expect law enforcement to abide by high standards. and so, you know, that video that went viral of eric garner being choked, the guy who filmed it was followed, harassed, and eventually is now behind bars because of the way in which people are attacked to hold police accountable. and the police who did it have
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largely not suffered any consequences. that is not the way that we should be carrying out justice in this country. so all of us who are watching this are deeply concerned that this case is being left open. >> you talked about the attorney general nominee, sessions. i would like to play yo this sound bite. this is from former deputy attorney general larry thompson. people like him are giving jeff sessions their full support. take a listen to this. i'll get your reaction. >> the senator also has a record of bipartisan leadership in the senate, especially on criminal justice. senator sessions is not oblivious to the fact that we have more to do in the area of racial equality. senator sessions deserves confirmation as our next attorney general. >> so obviously you disagree with that based on what you just told me saying you oppose the confirmation of jeff sessions. but what is your take on these comments when you have former attorney generals endorsing him? >> well, it's actually not a surprise. i mean, this is a gentleman who
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served in the bush justice department, has a history of being sort of the black face standing in the way of racial justice reforms, will benefit greatly as a republican by a trump administration that has all sorts of opportunities on the corporate side of his career. one of the things he's said in the media which is really disappointing is that because jeff sessions has shared a room with him at some point and he is black that jeff sessions can't be a racist or can't have a racist bone in your body. it speaks to a fundamental misunderstanding of structural racism and the way that racism actually plays itself out. so when donald trump says misogynist thing, a woman comes out and says he can't possibly be misogynist because he promoted me at some point. that's not the way that systems and structures and the structures that jeff sessions had advanced throughout his career, the way he's played fast and loose around protecting
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people's and not protecting people's rights to, you know, cast their vote, the way he's made jokes about the kkk, the way he's treated black employees, he has a long history. >> let me ask you this quickly because there's always this debate about change and i was having this conversation with a gentleman earlier. on one hand, we say, yes, we may have said something inappropriate 30 years ago, something he's categorically rejected and condemned but more important when we say to people we want you to change and when they come out and change, we say, no, we don't believe that you've changed based on what you did 30 years ago, where is the space there for any kind of human growth to say to somebody, look, what views you held 30 years ago in a different time you distanced yourself from them, condemned them, now you're saying you've changed, when do you draw the line between when to believe someone and when not to? >> i think that, you know, it's about people's actions and not just people's words. jeff sessions had plenty of time in the united states senate to
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champion civil rights measures, to fight back against the things that he didn't support before. but when you have senators like orrin hatch, who didn't vote for martin luther king day being the primary folks supporting you, when you still stood in this moment of criminal justice where people are talking about reform and haven't stood up for reform, you know, we don't see the action. and so it's nice that he's made words. but he actually hasn't fully went into his history of attacks on black communities, on immigrant communities, and so we have no reason to believe it he'll act any differeny. >> it will be interesting to see how it plays out. thank you very much. >> thanks for having me. in the next hour, a key member of the trump inauguration committee and transition team will join me to talk about the protests expected in and around the inaugural and what we might expect from the president-elect's inaugural message. a new lawsuit stems from the pulse nightclub attack targets social media.
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are they somehow responsible in part for the isis-inspired carnage we're seeing? that's next.
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some families in the u.s. who have lost loved ones during terror attacks are taking aim at major social media sites. lawsuits say sites like facebook and youtube provided material support to isis and other groups making it too easy for them to spread their messages and not acting quick enough to take it down. we have yet to hear back from the companies. in the past facebook has said it works aggressively to remove terror content and contacts if law enforcement says it's an imminent threat. twitter says the po pro-motion of terrorism deserves no place on its platform. google, which owns youtube, says it takes swift action against terrorist content. attorney keith altman is a lawyer representing the family of someone killed in the paris attacks and three families of
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orlando victims suing the technology companies. mr. altman, great to have you with us this morning. i'd like to get to a few questions but is it your position these websites were the sole fuel that allowed these attacks to be carried out? that thank you for having me. my law firm, 1-800-law firm, we've been looking that the issue for a long time. i don't think you can point to one sole cause but we think this very much contributed to the events that took place and the reality is without social media, isis and some of these other groups would be 50 guys standing around a campfire ranting a raving and nothing more. >> when you say you want them held liable for their actions, what does accountability look like to you here? you don't want them shut down. do you want them shut down? >> no, of course not. i think social media is a very important place. but the point is that everybody in this country has to act responsibly and reasonably and we're asking companies to do the same things. they are aware the terrorist organizations use their sites as
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an instrument to conduct operations. there are things they could do to deter or mitigate terrorist use of these sites. and they also profit from the terrorist postings. and all three of those things should .allowed to continue. one of the reasons they do all of this because there is a law called section 230, the communications decency act, which they believe insulates them from any responsibility for anything that goes on on those sites and that shouldn't be. they shouldn't get a get-out-of-jail-free card while people are dying. >> two things. one is there have been previous cases nibble california in 2016 that this was dismissed. something similar to this was dismissed where facebook i believe was not found -- the case didn't even proceed, did not advance. but why start with or stop with social media? why are you not going after internet service providers who are providing the internet? why target websites and not internet service providers? >> the reality is that the social media sites are fully ware of what's going on with the
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terrorist organizations. and we're not asking that they do anything that is unexpected of everybody else -- be reasonable. if there are things you can reasonably do, do them. for example, they talk about twitter -- they've taken down hundreds of thousands of accounts. it's weed whacking. they cut the tops off the dandelions but not the roots and the next day you have more. they take the accounts down but doothing to hel keep them down. they took one down 145 times before that image was taken. 145 times. you couldn't figure out it was the same guy coming back? what's more disturbing is as soon as these guys come back the first thing they do, they broadcast to all the people they were connected to to reconnect to all of these people and they allow that to happen. if you cut out those two things you could substantially limit isis' and other terrorist organizations' ability to -- >> very quickly, because i know we've reached out tho these companies but they've been on
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the record saying they're doing everything to fight down these websites or groups or individuals, banning them, like you mentioned 145 times. if it's a psych that will keeps on repeating itself, somebody pops up with a fake account, how can they prevent that? is there any way to say we can prevent an individual from creating different accounts? >> absolutely. i do forensic data analysis. there is no doubt in my mind because like drift 1, he comes back with drift 1 with a sequential number. if you take down drift 1-145 you can't look to see if somebody comes up with drift 1 and something else? >> i have a feeling this is something that's going to be with us for a very long time to combat it. i appreciate your insight hts a your time and hopefully we have you on again. >> thank you for having me. the pictures that show just how dangerous it is on the roads even for the snowplows as a massive ice storm moves through the midwest.
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