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tv   MSNBC Live  MSNBC  January 14, 2017 1:00pm-2:01pm PST

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>> good saturday afternoon. i'm richard luis at headquarters in new york city. thanks for being with us on this day. let's go right to our lead story. president-elect donald trump criticizing congressman john lewis after the long-time public servant and civil rights icon questioned trump's legitimacy as president-elect. >> i don't see the president-elect as a legitimate president. i think the russians participated in helping this man get elected, and they helped destroy the candidacy of hillary clinton. i don't plan to attend the inauguration. it will be the first one i miss since i have been in the congress.
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you cannot be along with something that you feel that is wrong. >> kelly o'donnell is following the story for us in front of trump tower, and, kelly, the democratic party of georgia responding to trump. trump responding to representative lewis. take us through the back and forth so far. >> good to be with you, richard. there's a protest happening just on the other side of the camera. it's loud here, and we've got a little snow falling. using the modern way of communicating, social media, and this other expression of free speech is happening right in front of donald trump's home here on fifth avenue. to have a figure like john lewis, who, of course, has tremendoushistory, one of the most recognized figures for helping to achieve a lot during the struggle in the 1950s, to have someone of his stature question the legitimacy of the
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result of the election is very different than just criticism of donald trump. it really bumps it up to another level. much like those who criticize barack obama claiming falsely that he might not have been a natural-born citizen and how that eroded people's confidence and was so emotional during the obama years. now for john lewis, who was reveered in the democratic party, a helg hillary rodham clinton supporter, saying this about donald trump provoked donald trump to respond on twitter saying that congressman lewis should focus on his district, which is in the atlanta area in georgia, claiming that it is in real decay and that it's crime-ridden. claims that certainly people who live there would dispute. it is john lewis's history of being a person of action during the civil rights movement and in all the years since.
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not someone just about talk. this back and forth is an extension of the division we've seen during the campaign season and in this transition period and it's coming just days before donald trump takes the oath of office. john lewis also said he would not attend the inauguration, the first time for him as an elected official, and that is a sign of protest. other democrats doing that as well. it is a kind of racheting up of the verbal back and forth and putting some dimension of history on this. donald trump not saying anything, but using his twitter to push back against john lewis and any criticism that his election might not have been free and fair. of course, it was john lewis citing russian hacking as the claim that donald trump will not be a lelk i want president. >> kelly o'donnell there in front of trump tower. >> we also have tara palmeri,
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and tom -- former aide to bob pataki. what do the comments coming from john lewis and the response so far that we've been following say about what other leaders in the democratic party on the hill may be thinking and may come out and say as explicitly as john lewis did? this is the kind of message that they want to continue going on. they want this to be a part of the conversation that donald trump is not a legitimate president, and his response is actually furthering that conversation and keeping it in the public eye. that's why they've been promoting this idea that he did not win the popular vote. what thoor trying to do is make donald trump feel that his mandate to be president of the united states is weakened.
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he was not, in fact, elected fair and square. the american people do not have the faith in him. that is the -- that is the message that the democrats want to get out there, which gets underneath donald trump's skin. it provoeks a reaction, and it keeps us talking about it on cable news. it has people, you know, sitting at home listening and saying, you know, this is the truth. the more you talk about it. >>. >> tom, this is going to be a little bit of a couple of days in front of us. perhaps weeks. perhaps months where we're going to see prominent democrats coming out and using clear language, like in this case questioning the legitimacy, using that word legitimate city for this new president. puts republicans in a tough place, though, right? this is john lewis. >> well, we're in a tough place because john lewis is someone that, you know, clearly his track record, right, his actions during the civil rights movement
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are undisputable. he is a hero to many for what he has done. however, it's ironic to me that the lenl i want si of the presidency -- we talked during the debates about this. it was all thought that donald trump would be questioning the legitimacy, and you knew the outrage from the left when he said that. now the left is questioning the outcome of this election, and the american people are the losers in this. it's in our best interest that the president who hasn't even taken office yet is felt as if he is our president. whether you voted for him or not, we want him to succeed. i think that john lewis -- i think he took a misstep here. i really do. i think that it's in everybody's best interest that we get the ball rolling on january 20th and we try to work together at some level. i think he really just had a misstep. >> how could donald trump, the new president as of one week from now responded more to the point that they were making that he could have actually moved
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ahead, been above the fray, but instead said, you know, not hard work. been hard working, it is s representative lewis. >> he could have done nothing and just stay silent. it's not in him. he is a person that will tweet everything in his stream of consciousness well into the wee hours of the morning. i agree in some rptsd with what tom has said that there does need to be some healing. i don't disagree with what in large part what are representative lewis said, but at the same time he is president of the united states, donald trump is, and he needs to be above this, and, look, i take what my good friend howard wilson was very well known political circles. he tweeted something today, which i thought was incredibly appropriate, and he said that john lewis did more standing on the bridge in one day than donald trump has done to bring -- make america great, and for donald trump to tweet this and suggest that donald trump is all talk on martin luther king
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weekend is shameful to me. >> it would have been better to say i have disagreements well this president, many disagreements, but it's incumbent for me to work with this president because i have things that i think we need to do together in this country to move the ball forward. we are starting on day one illegitimate. she got two and a half million more votes. if they ran a better campaign, they would have won the election. >> dlt was never told, you know what, by republicans -- you know, you should stop delegitimizing this president. he was allowed to continue to do th and in part fueled his cend answe to the presidency right now. i understand what you are saying, tom, but my thing is why are african-americans always being told to stay in your place
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and speak only in this certain way where there are other folks talking about our communities in the way that donald trump has engaged in our communities in ways that are not as supportive, but we have to say we're going to play fair with everybody else. >> the real question is this new president able to address and understand this intersectional existence that you are talking about here. you not only have a represent ti of congress who is well represented, but you also have an african-american civil rights icon. you also have an individual who represents the south and has done so, and a great district at that. you have seen some of the pictures that have been tweeted out. that's one of the big questions. can he handle this multi-playered intersectionsal space of what america is? >> the problem is that he hasn't from day one, and he is the president of the united states. we look at the examples. he went after a war hero. he went after the family of a gold star family.
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he won the election, and he thinks he can continue it. >> we'll have all the tweets. tara, to you on this. the other question that this topic brings up is how president-elect donald trump will understand the role that he is about to take. the house -- as he is in the white house, the office of the white house, this versus the office of the representative from georgia. two very different roles and expectations, a in this case donald trump is saying i'm jt going to be myself, and i'm going to go rightack at john lewis. >> he is really in fighting form, and that's not typically the demeanor of the president much the united states. he is going to have entire congress -- well, half of a congress, half of a senate that are democrats, that are going to work on attacking him, and they know his sore spot is trying to delegitimize his win as president of the united states.
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the fact that he is still speaking about hillary clinton even though he won the election shows you that it's a really sensitive topic for him, where they know this. their job is to attack him. their job is to make him feel insecure, to show that he is not -- that he is not above the banter. he has to show as president, you know, that he is above the kind of campaign that he had during his campaign. >> thank you all for being with us. >> thank you. >> all righty, coming up andrea mitch e's exclusive one-on-one interview with vice president joe biden. she gets his thoughts on donald trump's intense relationship with the intelligence community and how he thinks vladimir putin is trying to make america look weak. seeing is believing, and that's why
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for the final time as president i am pleased to award our nation's highest civilian honor, the presidential medal of freedom. >> president obama surprising vice president joe biden there thursday with the nation's highest civilian award. this presidential medal of freedom including one more honor, the words with distinction. that's a term only used for three other recipients. not long before biden unknowingly walked into that ceremony, he had an interview with andrea mitchell, and they talked about his relationship with president obama and his family's bittersweet journey along the way. the conversation began with politics, with donald trump,ing and the new president's latest clash with the intelligence community. take a listen. >> thank you, mr. vice president. thank you very much for joining us. >> i'm very happy to be with you. >> the head of national intelligence took the
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extraordinary step of calling the president-elect to assure him that the intelligence community was not leaking a smear campaign, a document that included unverified allegations smearing him. what's your reaction to what's happening? >> i was asked when i came down here -- i had been in the intelligence community in the united states senate, chairman of the foreign relations committee, thought i was awfully well informed. i got here, and i found out there was even more to be informed about. in one sense it's understandable, and mr. trump doesn't understand the intelligence cmunity. the hope is he has people around him who unrstand that it's a crowned jewel of everything we do. whether it's in terms of all our foreign policy decisions, all our intelligence decisions, says and i hope that he has people around him -- i know he has people around him who know a lot about the community. some i don't agree with, like general flynn. others like mattis i do.
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i hope they get to him and make him understand that denigrating the intelligence committee just denigrates u.s. interests. it makes us more vulnerable. i hope the rhetoric changes. >> he tweeted yesterday morning comparing the spy agencies to nazis. what is the impact of that? >> it's really, really unfortunate. mr. putin, among others, but primarily, is spending all his time since i came back as president trying to convince the rest of the world that america is weak, it's not in control of its own assets. basically saying to other parts of the world, look, you can't count on america. they're not reliable. you should be changing your attitude here. it plays into his hands. it hurts our intelligence community. look, a lot of people you know,
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andrea, are risking their lives. they're not just sitting behind a computer. they're risking their lives to get information that is essential for our physical security. and i just hope the lord -- these people who know more get around them quicker than they have. >> can he re-establish trust? he will have his own people in charge of the agencies, but the work force, thousands and thousands of men and women who, as you say, are on the front liebz, whether they're here at home or overseas. >> that will depend a lot on the people put in charge. and i think they will look at the people -- thousands of people out there, look at whether or not they're supplying to the new boss is being transmitted to the new boss,
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and -- it remains to be seen. >> what are you seen so far? with him going on twitter and with him attacking them. how bad is the damage? if i'm hearing it from men and women who work in the community, you live with them. >> the hope is that in the next week to ten days once he is president and once he has his appointed analyst and experts in charge that he will be much more informed. >> you suggestedou had differences with michael flynn who is coming in as national security advisor. you know better than anyone how important that role is. that's proximity. he could have great people at the agency and at the pentagon, but the person with him morning, noon, and night is going to be michael flynn. >> he is a very smart guy. he is very well informed of the intelligence. we may disagree on the use of it and we may disagree in emphasis,
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but, look, the one thing i've found about the intelligence community, andrea, is especially since -- since the advice relative to saddam having weapons of mass destruction, is that they are very, very, very careful about what they recommend, what they state, and they will state differences. they will state every morning i just came from a presidential daily brief. i had my little secure pad that has everything that happened the night before. wrun will say we have overwhelming conviction that this is going to happen, but within the agency -- within the intelligence community there's two others that don't share this view as well. there's space between us. they're completely thoroughly open to the president about what they think and where they disagree, and they're incredibly competent. >> well, that said when 17
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agencies all agreed that russia was hacking, trying to interfere with the election, trying to improve trump's -- donald trump's chances over hillary clinton's, the motivations were put in there that it could only have happened with vladimir putin authorizing it,ing that kindf consensus -- >> like i said, once he has the mantle of being president, sitting behind that desk every morning, my hope and expectation is that he will become signific more informed as to how they work, how they function, how good they are. >> he said just yesterday that it could be an asset if vladimir putin likes him. is it an asset for vladimir putin to like the president of the united states, or is he playing us? >> look, it's important that the next president, prosecute trump, understand all that vladimir
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putin has done and continues to do to try to undermine america's influence and the europe that exists whole free and at peace. it's been clear to every observer left, right, and center that putin believes a united europe is a problem for him. he has done everything he can to splinter consensus in europe, to weaken the e.u. as well as nato. i can't believe after being immersed for several months in this as president that that's not a consensus. i'm confident it's a consensus that the experts in his administration understand and that will be communicated to him, but i can't devine what
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president-elect trump isely to do. >> was it a mistake for the intelligence community to even include that unverified opposition research, disinformation material that, the two-page addendum, even included in the briefing papers? >> we asked that question. and their argument was that this is something that the press already had. not just here in the united states, but other places. that it would be -- they would be -- they didn't use the word derelict, but it was their obligation to inform us and the president-elect that this was out there so that it didn't come out of the blue and have any impact on the conduct of our foreign policy. they were clear that they just mentioned it. they made no judgment about it.
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they did not say this was substantiated, but they felt there was a -- it was totally separate and apart from what the president asked to be done, which was to go in and do a thorough analysis and scrub to what extent did russia engage in trying to impact on our election of 2016? was it directly related to orders by putin? how involved was he? et cetera. they made a concerted and coherent and unified recommendation that, yes, it was designed to impact the outcome of the election. yes, it was approved by putin. and i've been doing this for a long time, andrea. they have hard data. this isn't a guess. they have hard data. what they didn't opine on is
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whether or not it had any affect on the election. that is not their judgment. the question was did russia attempt? yes, they did. yes, putin knew. yes, putin authorized. >> by also transferring it, weaponizing it to wiki leaks, that is different than what mr. trump is talking about when he talks about what china did two years ago, which is widely reported at the time with the personnel reports. is that the difference? >> it was thorough. it was comprehensive. tchsz fully intended. it was -- whatever vehicle was available to mr. putin to disseminate information that would be hurtful was used. so -- you know, it's not just the united states.
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i'm likely our colleagues in germany are wondering what mr. putin is going to be doing. they've been very active in moldova and other places in eastern europe. they've been active in funding organizations that you wouldn't expect them to fund that were designed to undermine anything from european energy independence to cohesion on sanctions. and that was the first part of andrea mitchell's discussion there with vice president joe biden. when we return, more of andrea's exclusive one-on-one interview. his thoughts, joe biden's, on president-elect trump to repeal obama care on his first day in office, and whether vice president joe biden believes it was a mistake for the intelligence community to give trump unverified information.
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>> i'm richard lui in new york, and some of the stories we're following for you on this
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saturday with less than a week to go until the inauguration. there's a war of words between president-elect trump and congressman john lewis. this morning trump responded on twitter to lewis's comments during an interview on "meet the press" where he called trump an illegitimate president. trump tweeted that lewis should focus more on fixing his district than falsely complaining about election results. lewis says he will skip trump's inauguration. a crippling ice storm to watch as well that's hitting parts of the nation's midsection where up to an inch of ice is forecast for parts of kansas, missouri, and oklahoma. so far tee deaths and numerous accidents are being blamed on the storm. okay. now to the second part of nbc's andrea mitchell's exclusive sitdown with vice president joe biden. here's his reactions to andrea's questions on vladimir putin, donald trump, and how the election has rattled washington. >> well, looking back now president obama said that he could have defeated donald
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trump. could joe biden have defeated donald trump? >> oh, i don't know. i don't know. i'm not going to speculate on that. >> in your heart of hearts the criticism is there was a lack of an economic message. that's your ballpark. pennsylvan pennsylvania, the prus belt, your home territory? regrets? >> no. no. look, i -- i'm about to hurt your reputation. you're a friend. you know my family. you know of my relationship with my family. i just wasn't prepared to do it after i lost my son. i have no regret in the sense that did i make the wrong decision? i made the right decision. but do i regret that my point of view is not going to be reflected in the next administration because we have mr. trump? yeah, i do regret that. >> i mean, he says that he can get obama care repealed and
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replaced on the same day, in the same hour. >> when you pass around your year book to be signed, and somebody says lots of luck on your senior year. lots of luck on your senior year, mr. trump. look, it's -- there's a lot -- here's what i th >> what does he need to know? >> the public has moved far beyond where mr. trump is on all these issues relating to the social agenda as well as health care. health care is a basic right. >> he was elected on those slogans. >> well, he was elected on the slogans, but it wasn't -- look, he lost the popular vote, and but for 175,000 votes in three states, it would be a different outcome. there's 1,000 reasons why could you attribute our candidate's loss. it could be anything from the
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failure to speak to the constituency. i'm giving credit for having a relationship with. working class and middle class people. it could be what happened with the fbi. it could be a whole range of things. you know, this is one election, andrea, where i don't think the issue is really intruded. >> one of the big issues is he said drain the swamp. now, he is -- he -- yesterday he repeated that he is not going to release his taxes ever. and says he doesn't need a blind trust. he is going to just turn it over to the sons. has he done enough -- the office of government ethics says what he did is meaningless. >> i don't think he has done enough, and he may sink in the swamp. you know, if you don't drain it, you sink in it. >> with all due respect, sir, you are one of the.
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>> you have a hoe. i don't know whatever assets you have. he said -- he could run hz business as well as run the government. >> well -- >> not that he couldn't, but are you going to be a president or a businessman? you don't do both. you ran for the most coveted office in the world, the most important office in the world. the thing that the american public looks to most for their security opportunity guarantees and focus on your job. that's the job. i found it bizarre to talk about, well, i could have made a $2 billion deal. i could have done both, but i decided not to. >> look, this is a place where the public is going to decide whether or not the failure to divest, the failure to meet what
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were considered to be the basic minimum ethical standards. >> more exclusive interview after the break. the vice president opens up to andrea about leading the nation's fight against cancer and his personal ties to it. ♪ everything your family touches sticks with them.
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>> just over a year ago president obama named vice president joe biden to lead the nation's fight against cancer. for vice president biden, the battle will always be personal. his son, bo, losing his fight with brain cancer in 2015. in her interview with vice president biden, andrea mitchell asked joe biden about the future of this mission with the political landscape changing as it is. >> i know so close to your heart
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is cancer moon shot. i'm talking to scientists in cancer. they are really worried after talking to transition officials that the new team does not believe in federal dollars on this. they think the pharmaceutical industry can do it all. what is your hope for basic science? >> i raised this well vice president-elect mike pence, who i like, is a good guy. i told him i'm prepared to do anything i can to continue to work. we made significant progress in the last year in narrowing the space, and one of the things, andrea, that you covered the so-cald cures bill. no one thought we could pass in a divided congress, in a period where only a week left in the congre congress. >> we were able to pass a spending bill on research and
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development. $1.6 billion -- $is.8 billion of that for cancer. this is a bipartisan consensus, and i think that -- i hope that they will continue to deal with the reforms we made that's why i'm going to be setting up a biden initiative that is going to be designed to follow on the work we did in the private sector. >> there was a moment i was in baghdad with you on july 4th, some years ago, and you and dr. biden, you were swearing in new citizens. they were american troops. many from immigrant backgrounds, and i was thinking about the dreamers, and all these executive orders that are going to be reversed. what is your thought? i saw those soldiers -- bo was still in service then.
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>> some of them were decorated soldiers. silver stars. these were people who had -- they're mo american than america. remember the looks on their faces? >> yeah. they came up, and they were so proud, so proud. i this i that if he does what he is talking about doing, i think it does great damage to our country, to our image, and to -- look, there are two things that are unique about america. one is that we've headline a constant from the 1700s -- a constant wave of immigration making us stronger. we get the best of every single solitary culture. the people who pick up and lead and say let's sell everything we have and move to a country we don't know and then we don't
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speak the language. won't that be fun? they have courage. they have optimism. they have commitment. that's why we are the people we are. they've done so much, and there is this notion that somehow it makes sense to tell a kid who when he was 2 years old, his mother theoretically walked him across the rio granund and he i going to say, mommy, no, don't have me go. let me stay here. this is bizarre. >> your life you hen even been sworn in as a senator. you lost your wife and child. you had two very sick, damaged children to take care of, infan infants. you made the right decision. >> i made the right decision. i was lucky. i had a group of six or seven
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senior senators in retrospect, they saved my sanity. i was supposed to come down and get sworn in, and i decided i wasn't going to do it. that's why i got sworn in after everybody. they sent somebody up to the hospital to swear me in. it zurntd out to be the right decision across the family. it has been a unifying effort with my family. it's kept us close. we've all been engaged in it. it's been. >> the file part of andrea mitchell's one-on-one interview with vice president joe biden. rere flekts on his close relationship with the obama family and what he had to say about the first family before receiving the presidential medal of freedom. how do you become america's #1?
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the extraordinary friendship between barack obama and joe biden, that will go on af they happened over the white house on friday. >> what have he and michelle meant to you and jill? >> a great deal. you know, i knew -- i remember my mother asking me when i first said i didn't want to do the job when i was asked. she said, joe, look. he is a good man, isn't he? i said, yeah, mom, he is a good man. shsaid, then you have been involved in some -- involvement in civil rights. now, you're telling me the first man african-american to be president says he needs you to win, and you said no? i said, mom, that's not fair. we did it. we got started, and one of the things about him is that i watched how he treats his children, his wife. i kid mrs. robinson, michelle's poim. >> the president's
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mother-in-law. >> she could be my mom. the same values, the same -- and so the one great thing among the four of us, there's been no -- nothing missed between -- we have the same value set, and the second piece of it is that , you know, he has kept his commitment. i asked him whether or not he had any demands. i said no demands. i just want to make sure i get to be the last guy in the room at every decision. i will back you unless there's some fundamental disagreement we have, in which case i'll develop pr prostate cancer or something and leave. he has kept his commitment. as well as that, we've -- i've watched him under pressure. i admire him. this man has more backbone, more integrity than any president i've ever worked with, and i worked with eight presidents. he is a truly, truly decent man,
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and what i've learned was that his affection and his loyalty to my boys and to my daughter and to my granddaughters and their family is real. >> he came running down the hall when my son was first diagnosed with brain cancer. everybody thinks this guy is so cool and detached. i told a story because i want people to understand when i thought bo would have to leave because of ephasia and part of his brain was affected by the cancer and it was beginning to affect his speech, and bo was so proud. i was worried even though he still had the cognitive capability to run the justice department, that he would leave, and i said, you know, he may have to leave, and i said, but
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he has no income. we're in good shape. i can sell the house, and we'll be okay. he gets up from -- we're having what we do once a week, a private lunch, he and i. he said, joe, promise me, promise me you won't sell the house. i'll give you the money. i'll give you the money. joe, don't sell the house. so this is real. this is -- and i feel the same way about he and his children. one of the reasons, you know, malia -- sacha wasn't able to be at his farewell speech. you know where she was? sitting in the living room with my daughter, my granddaughter, studying for a chemistry exam together. this has become my granddaughters' best friends. they've been friends for eight years in the small class. they've vacationed together and hang out together. this has become a family. i really -- michelle -- i think
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michelle is the finest first lady in history. i mean in history. there's been wonderful first ladies, but she is so smart. she is so, so decent, and she is so inclusive. i mean, i can't even -- looking at her it's just -- she conveys such -- just america. it's been -- i'm going on too much. i really i don't like him. i love him. and it's a mutual thing. we've had each other's backs and i'll be there for anything he ever wants. >> on to the next phase. >> yeah. >> thank you. thank you so much. >> thank you. i appreciate it. sorry to go on so long about that. >> as always, it's a privilege. >> thanks. >> thank you, mr. vice president.
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>> an open, revealing sitdown with vice president joe biden, one-on-one with nbc's andrea mitchell. white house correspondent for politico was watching along with me. really got a sense of who joe biden was there, right, tara? what do you think will be next, the next phase that andrea was asking about? >> it seems that joe biden will definitely stay in the public eye, but it seems that he is moving away from political life and will focus on making sure that resources are diverted from the government to cancer research. that is his passion. his son, we know, is 46-year-old son, bo, recently died. he is 74 years old. i can't imagine him going into another campaign in four yea or eight years and running for higher office. there are a lot of calls for him
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to rin for president. he won't shy away. he will still be in the public eye, but he will be using his voice for this project, and changing the way that we approach cancer, and he received $800 million from the obama administration to put towards this task force that he has created, but he will need to do a lot of convincing to the new administration, the trump administration, to take this seriously as well. he will need to be out there and really driving it in the public conversation. >> joe bideern, certainly an icon of civil service. potentially 74 is a new 54. political white house reporter, tara palmeri. thank you for sticking around. >> don't miss andrea mitchell's interview with susan rice. hear what she has to say about obama's legacy on foreign policy and national security. that happens monday at 12:00 noon eastern. do not miss andrea mitchell reports.
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