tv For the Record With Greta MSNBC January 17, 2017 3:00pm-4:01pm PST
>> i might -- tomorrow president obama says good-bye as president for the tifinal time. "for the record" with greta starts right now. this is breaking news just a short time ago, president obama commuted all the remaining prison sentence of chelsea manning. also breaking james cartwright convicted for making false statement during a probe of leaks. attorney for chelsea and works for aciu, chase, do you know where the president has done this? >> thanks for having me. we are just overwhelmed and relieved. it's clear that president obama
recognized if if he did not now chelsea live's was in jeopardy and she 37 years also she has acknowledged that her actions did not necessarily result in harm but she apologized for them and she has suffered in a number of ways and president obama acted on the side of justice here. >> did you get a written order -- manning live was in jeopardy. you and i know you can do administrationive segregation there's a ways to protect people in protective custody. or is it because the president thought this was a too severe sentence. any express reason by the white house why this was done? >> we have not received any
expressed reason by the white house. but i will say administrative is not way to prevent someone from harming themselves. the risk of her life and the reality that in retro spect the 35-year sentence was eagreeingous and she has served a long time for leaking documents for the press for the public interest. we would never know the reason for obama's action. but i think it was a combination of those things and i do believe that saved her life. >> have you spoken to chelsea manning since the news came down? we have not spoken to chelsea. we have been trying to get in touch with her. it's unusual that her attorneys have not had a chance to speak with her. our
understanding is that the military facility was not informed and we were not informed until the same time the information was drilistributed the press this afternoon. we are trying to get a hold of her. >> when did you last speak to her and did you have an anticipation that this was coming down? >> 2:00 p.m. this afternoon. and she was managing her expectation and she was nervous. there was indication over the last week to suggest the president maybe acting to commute her sentence we didn't know when and tohat amount. this does come with no real expectation on her end. i'm relief and look forward to speaking with her to share this news. >> why did she do this in the first place? >> there's really no way to know exactly why anyone takes action
that they did -- >> sometimes they say why. because i wanted to or it was an accident or something or i was angry. >> we know what chelsea was incredibly troubled by what she saw and disclosed information because she wanted the public to know and wanted the american people to haven understanding what the government was doing in our name. the last several years have been for her. we show she has suffered. she is already been punished so severely for her actions. >> thank you for joining us. >> thank you for having me. commutation getting a major reaction. you will be free. thanks for what you did. stay
strong a while longer. >> victory. fiercely critical reaction from paul ryan who called move outrageous. won't be held accountable for the crimes. major bob scales is with me. moments ago i spoke with john p mccain. i asked on a scale of 1 to 10 how bad is this. he said 11. >> let's take this over the table -- i'm speaking as a soldier, the bottom line there is treason, pure and simple. she gave away to wikileaks 400,000 operational, not political, operational documents that put soldiers in the field as risk.
to put at risk some rocky citizens collaborated with the american military during the iraqi war and serious damage was caused. if you're a traitor and you feel bad about it, that's fine. it's still treason, and treason in the military has been punished by very severe sentence. and she leaves after seven year is not justice. the pra reaction in the pentagon has -- what does it mean next time private sitting in a front of a classified screen comes up, look with the what happened to chelsea manning, give away secrets and i won't be punished. >> is there a military should
disclose or leak information? >> absolutely not. i have seen secret documents on desk overnight. i have seen people slip in e-mail or pass a piece of information at a party go down. loz their ranks, and oftentimes go to prison. this is a person leaks 400 those document and gets to go home. >> why you do think president obama did this. we don't have a written order. -- she wasn't guilty. without knowing without a written order. >> i'm guessing here, i suspect it has to do with his
humanitarian instincts. he feels probably seven years is long enough. we don't see this as some minor transgregs that could be mitigated by the president of the united states. it is treason and 7 years is not sufficient years for treason. >> what about cartwright? >> the only issue i have with haas. there's a sense among our soldiers that privates get punished. lieutenants get punished. generals get off. i'm glad he is not going to be sent to prison. but at the same time there's this underlying sentiment among the ranks that privates go to jail. generals
get off. >> glenn, you're thought with this breaking news tonight about chelsea manning having sentenced commuted. >> i'm as stonish to here the general say he committed treason. she never passed documents to america's enemy. she passed it to the american public. it has become most -- inform americans about what government is doing. unless you're regard general -- to keep calling it treason is warped. she did break the law. there's no question about that. she wasn't charged with treason. the last point he made was this double standard. she was in prison for 7 years.
not one document was top secret. it was low level. by contrast general petraeus leaked, and he didn't go to prison for a single day. he was to let his mistres write -- no harm has been -- it served the public by stories, the fact she suffered for seven years is a justice outcome. >> gren glenn, we journalist tlief on leaks. but the military is different ball game. in your mind, is there any time when someone in the military should not be leaking to the media? >> sure. everybody agrees the government has legitimate secrets. as chase discussed at beginning of your show, she was
somebody volunteered to go to iraq and thought this was honorable mission and saw the gap between what the government was telling the american people they were doing in iraq and the reality they were doing she could not let these crimes go unreported that's when you want someone to step forward. >> let put my lawyer head on, did -- was her sentence a greater sentence in someone similar situated in terms of i have no sense of whether 35 years was a sentence something other people got for something similar. >> she got the largest sentence in american history for any person who leak classified information not by selling it to adversary government or passing to harm america but leaking it into the general public, and got the largest to all-american
history. >> the second if the information that she leaked caused no harm does it make a difference? >> first of all, we don't know that's true. glin glenn is associate to snowden. wikileaks wound up in the hand of al qaeda, names were release that should not have been. iraqi soldiers who could have been punished or suffered retribution we don't flow that. it is free son when a person gives up information that harms the nation and soldiers, this isn't about views of the american people, this is about our buddy, men and women who have to share risk and keep secrets to stay
alive and she violated that. >> how is that different? >> what he did was against the law. we released information to his biographier. the information was never allowed out. it never made it into the -- >> that was good fortune for him. >> good fortune. he was punished but did not go to jail. but speaks to what i talked about earlier, about cartwright. >> you got it. >> what's your thought on snowden? >> while chelsea suffered 7 years in prison, the un found she was subject to torture and abuse. edward snowden is not in
prison. they both acted to inform the public about things they ought to know. he can commute snowden is not in prison. he is free. >> why did they men that have access or women and men who seem to be new in the military whether have access to this information -- >> that's a great question. he. >> she. >> she had access to sipper act allows mitt tear to exchanges secret information. it was put in place to allow soldiers to kplun kat with each other. unfortunately, as we learned since, the sipper net is not something access by private. that is crew up on the part of the military in iraq. they have taken measure to fix that a private should not have had
access to 400,000 military documents and 200,000 diplomatic document. that's environment that's to -- >> pt krouley is on the phone. as you examined the situation. a lot of -- some people are cheering this and some are dismayed by this. this is 11 bad to him. you're thoughts tonight? >> i think there's appropriate balance here. i don't agree that what chelsea manning did represented treason. i do think that she harmed american national interest and she put real people at risk to the diplomatic cables. a number of
them revealed source in different place -- >> pj, let interrupt you. if you are harming the american national interest and are you disclosing information you know you should not, how is that sort of not may not treason in terms she wasn't charged with it how is that not a serious offense? >> it is serious offense. in 35-year sentence was a serious punishment. we have to distinguish between a civilian court of justice where you put people to maintain public safety and military court which is primary purpose is to reinforce good order is discipline we have here is a balance where the message coming out of the
manning case was if you do this it will be severe consequence but her is was a unique case. her struggle in uniform, abuse at quantico, the failure of the military to put network security many iraq. there was extenuating circumstance that i for one having served as state department during the wick leek situation and serve in the military for 26 years, i don't think that's it was necessary for her to serve the full 35-year sentence. >> i'm sure we have a lot to talk about. gentlemen, thank you all three of you very much. coming up repealing obamacare. are you for it or against it. new polls showing more popular than ever. i'll
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replaced. >> our premise is we wnt want to give ak access to affordable care. we want to make clear. >> as we speak there's a hearing for one of president president-elect trump betsy devos for education secretary. senator republican from louisiana and serves health committee and physician who put forth obamacare replacement bill. nice to see you. >> thank you for having me. >> the numbers are going up for obamacare. you have a plan, a replacement plan. what is it? >> we were return power to patients and state. by doing so we allow states to choose. if california want to stay on obamacare, they can decide to do
so. my state, other states arizona have had double and triple digits increased in prem jump we allow them to choose a different pack. give patients the power we think they do better. >> do we have any idea what your plan whether or not more expensive or less expensive. >> we can take existing revenue and enganl it to the existing revenue. we take amount the state would receive. what they receive had those eligible signed for obamacare. -- we also broaden coverage. we do that by gives states option to choose. everyone eligible enroll unless they choose not to bo be. by dog so we can lower premiums. expand
covering we lower premium do it for the same price as obamacare maybe cheaper from cheaper in the long-run. >> i thought it was complicated and got taken aside with the breaking news, i thought it was -- i don't know how it becomes cheaper. the other thing i wonder about, if i live in a state where i have obamacare, and let's say i like it, and my job take me to another state electriced to not have obamacare, what happens to me under your plan? >> you live under the laws of that state. washington never makes things less expensive. that's why we return it to the statesment we say this is income you have, you inlien the incentive make it work better
for your state. let each state choose. by choosing the state can lower the cost. we don't rely on the federal government. the last thing you mentioned was what -- >> if it i move from one state to another state. >> you live under the laws of that state. >> it's portable.? >> under our plan, the state alternative is that everybody would have a standard policy which would include tax credits that prefund a health savings account with a catastrophic policy. if it you move from one to another you take the account with you. the money continues to add. you with pool it with your family members to buy family policy. wep give the patient the power to manage her account. i find caring for the undersured
if you give the patient the power the patient does better. >> this is commplicated issue. penal wi -- i'm all for like having discussions about any kind of plans. hope you come back to talk about yours some more. >> thank you. donald trump and speaker ryan is there a light looming over tax reform. coming back on my long-term control medicine. i talked to my doctor and found a missing piece in my asthma treatment with breo. once-daily breo prevents asthma symptoms. breo is for adults with asthma not well controlled on a long-term asthma control medicine, like an inhaled corticosteroid. breo won't replace a rescue inhaler for sudden breathing problems. breo is specifically designed to open up airways
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support a commutation for manning. just in secretary did not support commutation of chelsea manning. trump is warning that their tax plan is too complicated. tax imports but not exports. there are more potential battles looming over issues like medicare. robert, i hate complicated programs. you look at tax code, it has 33 earmarks in it. i'm for a simple one. >> when i spoke with the president president-elect he said he working on -- he want to make corporate rates are cut
to -- he said on idea of boarder tax, a barder adjustable tax, he much more in favor of a tariff. 35%. if you're u.s. company building goods abroad and bringing them back. >> speaker paul ryan is not. >> he wants tax reform and tax cuts but he does not protectionist instincts that trump has. >> your thought on this? >> the export tax, lots of republicans are on board with this. the bigger political implications is you have a president-elect in contrast with the republican party that is kpielt excited to have a republican president and pass the reforms. does the opposition push the
republicans office plan, i done fl don't know this something we're going to keep seeing again and again and it come to politics. >> i think they want to give him the benefit of the doubt. they are exciting about having republican in the white house at this point. they are seeing the policy they are interesting in, everything they want to do carries big consequence because everything they pass could potentially be signed by republican president. >> it seems the president-elect is at odd with the republicans on the hill about the health care plan. >> he says it's nearly done, down to the "final stroke." he says politically he does not want to be blamed for 20 million losing their insurance. hhs has
the plans. >> where are the plans? >> you covered them regularly. there are dozen different kinds of idea floating around the capitol. >> this isn't universal coverage but trump wants to make sure covering is out there or it's going to be big issue for 2018/2020. >> a lot of republicans want to have repeal and replace happen at the at the same time. >> this doesn't make -- doesn't it make sense instead of caring american people caught in between. >> enrollment is up this year. it's interesting all various co components of this. the senators wanting to keep the medicaid
expansion pro vision -- >> assuming the government pays for it. >> trump and ryan are on the same page with that. >> trump want to go after pharma. they thinks that's the way -- >> they did cut a deal at obama care debate. a lot of people don't want to go after the pharmaceutical industry. >> because of the lobbyists it's so poisen people from having good judgment to do. it's selfish. >> we'll see what happens. thank
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statements that are being spread to compromise fabricate them and use them in their political struggle. these worst than pr prostitutes. >> nice to see you. why is vladimir putin now getting into this political food fight here in the united states going after president obama on this now? >> that's an interesting question. one of the curiosity of these election season is the affinity that the republican candidate has with a former kgb agent instilled as de facto dictator of russia, i don't think this is kind of ordinary bromance, i think that's question a lot of people have. what explains mutual affinity.
anyone who listens to vladimir putin says sure, he must be credible may not know that much about this man's background. >> put tin claims that they don't know each other. which is -- it looks like they reading to the press and responding to the press having they done know each other. >> they don't know each other, trump claims different things about their relationship they seem to understand each other at some mysteries levels. that's the mystery that will unfold over the next of the next administration. my own view is that putin has looked at trump as something approaching useful -- put tin has supported certain right ring nationalist anti-globalization political leaders throughout western world
including he pin if france or hungary, there's a certain birds of a feather quality here. that explains trump admiration for putin, or something else. >> president of china is speaking at globalist and accusing talking about trump being tprotectionist. any thoughts about that? >> yes. -- general secretary and president of china is last one to defend the liberal order of free trade and movement of goods and capital and services between boarders. china has a terrible record in terms of record or free throw of capital or foreign
investors in china -- aabandoned by the next administration. >> thank you, bret. we have three stories you may not know. sciencist working on lit yum batteries. number two donald trump tweeted wrong ivanka. he treated a women from england, who tweeted back your a man -- ouch. >> number one, we reported last week charges are moving from san jose to los angeles no moving company willing to help them transport their equipment from l.a. and san jose. so now you
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similarly flawed is the argument put aside and announce another receipt with russian, obama tried this approach in our first term. but 2017 is not 2009. >> that was un ambassador to united nation using final speech to deliver strong warning on russia. how will former policy change under president trump. >> she joins us. nice to see
you. >> great to see you. >> are you going to miss it with a short time left. >> i will miss it every day. every day you show up there's so much to learn from other countries, questions you have from when you were a kid. you have a chance to make a difference and best of our america, to be america at un where you lead -- you're one who mobilize the workers, the money, if there's terrorism, you moep mobilize the country, you get to lead the world. it's tremendous opportunity. >> the threat, national security. i heard you speak today talking russia. what happened in about -- we had a reset and it looked like things were heading in a different
direction and now it's almost like romney says, they are our big foe. >> when i get out of government i'll do forensic on it it. it wasn't president putin it was another president who had a different manner about him. we cooperated in afghanistan. we had a different arms control treaty with them. there's a lot of talk with counter terrorism what we can do today. the actions that russians took with regard to ukraine, they saw a country part of the soviet union, moving to the west. they viewed that as threatening. instead of engaging with dialogue, to go lop off someone country, that can't fly. that
puts us on collision course. they're talking about the i raq war in the past and we're trying to ensure they don't stay in territory that doesn't belong to them. alongside of that you have the syria war, where we respond in different ways to many of the issues that arose. they were using chemical weapons, and we tried to get them to negotiating to the table recognizing if the u.s. and russia could agree, we are alistening way finding a -- when they pushed they pursued -- when it hits close to home with the hacking, which i hope people with hear as a threat all of us not just because it happened, that president putin wanted one
person to win, hacking happened in 2008 and 2012 and will continue to happen. threat has diminish diminished somewhat. we have an interest in getting our defense it hardened. even though we're in a polarize moment and people are having hard time listening to one another, and people see what russian is doing, there has to be a way for us to united on this issue. >> when you say "they", is it putin or someone else? is it just him? >> again, i think he very powerful laideader -- >> it is president putin?
>> it is unlikely that someone would go rogue on president putin. >> i believe what the russians are doing is horrible. historically they have made mistakes where they have been wrong. every time i hear, i think to myself, i hope chancellor angela merkel is not listening because we went after her cell phone. i suspect that there's a lot of hacking going on with all of these nation and while i'm good american, when i think we're the good guys, i wonder about that. >> i think that's the version they would make who are you to -- there's something dis --
about hacking into someone e-mail or file, that's not something united states does would do. it is basically foreign interference of the kind. >> totally agree. >> in order to keep our country safe, it is true russia thinking the same way. information gathering, that is different than trying to distort what the outcome of the democratic outcome is. >> let me switch to sudan. president bra shire is lifting some sanctions. you talk about eating leaves and bugs because of what he doing. can you tell me why we lifted the sanctions in part? >> first, you're commitment is highly initial. >> have seen it. you can't
forget it. >> it's in your heart. we went behind the scenes to the sunni government and said this is what we need in order to have changes in our relationship. counter terrorism, stop support support armed groups in south sudan and cooperate with us which you have spoken about powerfully. six months later, came back and met terms we raid out. we used sanctions -- brand upon them. they continue to have four related sanctions because of the genocide carried out by bashir there. their access will be measured. so we're eager to
hear back if there's backsliding from where they have gone. so far we have used the tool in the tool box we think to bring about changes. our parters are saying they have not seen humanitarian access like this this a long time. bashir announce another cease-fire. a leopard doesn't change its spots. he indicted by icc and has horrible blood on his hands. he would be a pariah for a lock time. as for those involved in carrying out genocide in dra far. >> i have reread your book. if
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we're back with breaking news. wick leek founder has weighed in on communation of chelsea manning sentence. miss manning is a hero. one of the big questions he going to face where he decide to commute chelsea manning sentence. did not support the communation. thank you for watching. we'll see you tomorrow night at 6:00 p.m. eastern. set your dvr. get behind the scene
video and so much more. "hardball" starts now. foreign and domestic. let's play "hardball." good evening, there are two loud voices across the country. vladimir putin accusing the obama administration of undermining legitimate of donald trump. john lewis openly denying trump's legitimacy. i part with putin. is it possible theus