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tv   AM Joy  MSNBC  January 22, 2017 7:00am-9:01am PST

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[captain rod] happy tuesday morning! captain rod here. it's pretty hairy out on the interstate.traffic is literally crawling, but there is some movement on the eastside overpass. getting word of another collision. [burke] it happened. december 14th, 2015. and we covered it. talk to farmers. we know a thing or two because we've seen a thing or two. ♪ we are farmers. bum-pa-dum, bum-bum-bum-bum ♪ this is an outpouring of energy and true democracy like i have never seen in my very long life. it is wide in age, it is deep in diversity, and remember the constitution does not begin with "i, the president," it begins with "we, the people." good morning and welcome to "a.m. joy." on saturday a d.c. official told
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the associated press that 500,000 people marched through the streets of the capital and organizers of the women's march say that more than 650 sister marches took place around the world. organizers say that more than 250,000 gathered in chicago. mayor bill de blasio reported 400,000 marched in new york city. the atlanta mayor's office said 60,000 gathe there. police say more than 0,000 marched in l.a. and tens of thousands more joined in in all 50 states to promote equal rights for women and to defend marginalized people. this country's founding documents enshrined the right to peacefully assemble and citizens have practiced that right in historic numbers in the past. of course there was the 1963 march on washington for jobs and freed freedom. about 250,000 people joined in. in 1969 in the march on washington to end the war in vietnam, between 500,000 and 600,000 people gathered there. at president nixon's second
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inaugural in 1973, tens of thousands protested at the lincoln memorial. in february of 2003 we saw between 10 and 15 million people march in 600 cities around the world to protest the iraq war. we can now add the 2017 march for women, the women's march, to that list of historic demonstrations. according to march organizers, more than 4 million people around the world took to the streets around saturday. an impressive and historic assertion of the fact that women's rights are human rights. but not to the new white house press secretary, sean spicer, who in one of the most bizarre appearances ever, at least in the united states, ignored the historic marches altogether. other than to try and compare the crowd size estimates for those marches to the accurate reporting of the low attendance numbers for friday's inauguration of donald trump. >> inaccurate numbers involving
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crowd size were also tweeted. no one had numbers because the national park service, which controls the national mall, does not put any out. by the way, this applies to any attempts to try to count the number of protesters today in the same fashion. >> joining me now are four national co-chairs of the women's march on washington. carmen perez, tamika mallory, bob bland and lizza sausore. that you all for being here ladies. t me just congratulate you all. what an achievement. i will say, and i'll start with you, linda, since i don't know if you and i ever talked about this, but i was quite a skeptic, i have to be honest with you, of a march after the inauguration is a fait accompli. my view was a march to go and vote for the first woman president might be a better use
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of energy, but boy, was i wrong. did you not only double the estimates, we're talking about 4 million people around the world. how did you guys pull this off? >> women are always going to pull things off. people doubted us and this is what happens when ordinary women organize and stand up. look, we have a motivating factor, sexism, misogyny, xenophobia in the white house. we're saying, nope, not on our watch. we're going to make sure you stay accountable to our communities. women came out in the hundreds -- it wasn't just you a skeptic. our friends were skeptics, our families. what do you think they were doing. guess what, we did it, we did it big and we made history. >> one of the things that also produced skepticism, particularly in women of color, yesterday we talked to erica alexander and she made the point and i think it's valid. initially going into this the thought was these are white women who may have trump
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regrets. they either voted for donald trump or voted for jill stein or didn't vote at all and failed the kind of global women's push where you had women of color coming out and really voting to stop donald trump and white women saying maybe not so much. so there was a sense it wasn't very intersectional. how do you respond to that criticism? you guys obviously just looking at the group of you that are here did something definitive to try to turn that around, including changing the name from the million women's march. >> i think people forget that all of those changes were made in the first 48 hours. >> that's important. >> so it's important to contextualize that because we're responsible to the input of everyone coming to our pages, talking to us about it, messaging us, and we wanted to be a march that was completely inclusive but also inclusive of everyone's voices. so we corrected that as quickly as possible as soon as we had gotten the feedback and it was the best decision we ever made.
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centering the voices of women of color has made this march a success. i believe women of color's voices in leadership are essential for our nation moving forward. >> yeah, absolutely. and tamika, this is something that you've made the focus of your life. the things that you're doing in new york. a lot of them dovetail with what black lives matter is doing. so for black women and women of color, what did this march mean? >> well, you know, we have this saying that you either have a seat at the table or you're on the menu, right? so we're either going to be an agenda item or we're going to set the agenda. the purpose was for us to come to the table to set the agenda. i think that was very clear. if we could count the amount of times that black women or the word "black" was used yesterday in that rally, i'm sure it would exceed people's expectations. i know there was skepticism from a lot of folks about this, but i think we did a good job to come forward with a message that was inclusive but also specific about the issues that black people and brown people in this
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country face. the other thing i want to say, was there wasn't 500,000 people out there, there was at least a million people that came to washington, d.c., yesterday. we know that because every mode of transportation, trains, planes, buses, everything was sold out all over the country. just walking around the mall, you could see people were everywhere. >> i can tell you that we don't have any backup for that number. what we have, we're going to go through some of the data on the use of the transit system which was record. it was sort of on par with what you saw in 2009. it was clearly more people than came out for donald trump, which seemed to trigger him incredibly. carmen, the same question for you. you know that latino men and latinas are on the menu, as you might say, for the incoming administration. so there's a lot at stake for women of color, not just black women but black and brown women and really muslim women as well, obviously. so what did it mean do you think to the community of latinas to be a part of this? >> just the representation, the feedback that i received yesterday. a lot of people were very pleased to see latinos and
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documented issues presented on the stage. i will say that we really were intentional about centering the most marginalized communities in this march, making sure that even though some people were not able to make it to washington, d.c., but their voices would be able to make it. so we wanted to make sure that people felt welcomed and we were extremely intentioned not only about the diverse in issue but the diversity in race as well as gender nonconforming. but also the intersectionality of our issues because latinos are not only affected by immigration but also reproductive justice issues as well as criminal justice. so i think that was reflected on stage and at every level of this march. >> absolutely. and maria, you're in new york where there was a massive march. let me read a statement, the white house has released a statement. it's a shame that the march for life which estimates the same number of marchers in d.c. now they believe in numbers, they
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say 650,000 in 2013 and will be happening next friday will not get anywhere near the amount of coverage this march got. your thoughts, maria. >> i'm sorry, it's from a senior white house official, just for fyi that. what's your response? >> well, i think we need to start with the facts and what we saw. i was in new york yesterday and i can say that i've never seen a demonstration that has lasted this long, so i raised that question. was this the longest ever demonstration, because it was about ten hours in new york city. the fact of what i saw, and who i spoke, to young women predominantly, some of their first times marching in a movement of this kind, talking specifically about what it was to be in a march organized by women where it was predominantly attended by women. it was not just a woman's march. but they were setting the tone and the whole notion that there
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was no ontrags, there were no arrests in new york at all. i believe none in los angeles, none across the country. so this in terms of the women's movement, i think is really important in terms of the kind of tone that they're setting, in terms of protests and civic engagement at the level of street protests. i also think this -- >> let me -- >> joy, it cannot be possible, it cannot be possible that we can send women to the moon and back and that we have no way to do actual crowd estimates in our country. this is ridiculous. we are spending all of this time giving any space to falsehoods that are being set forth by a new white house administration and journalists and the media have got to understand that the game has changed. there are facts and we need to stick to that and call a lie and a falsehood for what it is.
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and as women who have been on the street and looking at this and have to have trust for being independent journalists, you have to trust us. we need to stop the conversation about untruths and now what are being called alternative facts. it needs to stop with us as journalists. >> yeah. and we're going to get into that in the next block and the term " "alternative facts" was introduced by kellyanne conway. i want to stick with this just for a moment and throw this out to you ladies here because this was your march. you have the fact that, you know, according to "the new york times," a crowd scientist who's estimated using data numbers, everyone are, that the size of the women's march was three times more than the trump inauguration. on the metro on friday for the inauguration, these are actual card swipes through the d.c. metro by 11:00 a.m. 193,000 card swipes on friday,
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275,000 on saturday. metro ridership far exceeded. 11:00 a.m., 193,000 trips on one day versus 275,000 for your march. it actually isn't comparable. there's no way to make the case the administration is making. why do you suppose -- well, it's sort of obvious. why do you suppose the trump administration and donald trump won't accept it? >> of course they're not going to accept it. how embarrassing it for you as the new president of the united states of america on your first day in office to have the largest mass mobilization in u.s. history, not only here in the u.s. but around the world. looking specifically domestically that women rose in every city in these united states of america, including in places like anchorage, alaska. >> antarctica. >> very quickly, what are you going to do with it? the risk is that it's an incredible display of anger and an uprising and then what happens to it? >> i think it's so important that we say, first of all, we've been in this. like this is a continuation of a
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movement that has already existed. we're giving people opportunity to find their way in right now. they can now become a part of the structures and the organizing that has been happening across this country for a long time. but we've built the infrastructure. you have all these states that are involved. a lot of people who are ready to move. we already have the first 100 days, ten actions for the first 100 days up on the women's march.com website and we're going to keep going. >> does that include voter registration? >> all of that stuff will be included. >> let's see if the women who participated in this go vote. on the way out i would love to play the elizabeth warren, a little bit from her speech as we go out as we thank carmen perez, tamika mallory, linda sarsour. coming up, donald trump seeks to believe now that he's president he can create his own bizarre reality. as i said before, facts matter
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this was the largest audience to ever witness an inauguration, period, both in person and around the globe.
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>> okay. so there's donald trump's reality and then there's reality reality. the reality that you can actually see with your own two eyes, the reality you can see in this picture, which clearly shows that the inauguration crowd for donald trump on friday, you can see it there on the left, looks -- which donald trump claims looks like 1.5 million people to him was much smaller than president obama's in 2009, which you can see on the right, which we know was 1.8 million. now, do those two pictures look like 1.8 million to 1.5 million to you? just look at them. or do they look like 1.8 million for barack obama versus 250,000 for trump? which is the estimate based on the exact same metrics that are used for every crowd that gathers on the national mall for decades. based on the square footage of the mall and how many people fit into the various spaces on it. just look at those two pictures
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and tell me what you see. tell me whether what donald trump and sean spicer said about those numbers could even remotely possibly be true. and you know what, you don't even need to just trust your eyes. there's also this, numbers. according to the d.c. metro as incorporated by "the washington post," 570,557 took trips on the system throughout the entire day on inauguration day. okay. the system saw 1.1 million trips on the say day in 2009. the number of television viewers has also dropped. according to neilson from 2009, a 20% drop apples to apples. in other words, mr. spicer, not the largest number of people who viewed an inaugural, period. not even close. and if you would lie to our faces about something that is as ultimately trivial as how many people watched your boss's
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inaugural, how are we supposed to trust you when you walk out on that podium and give some grave and important statement about the nation's national security? how are we supposed to trust anything that you say at all? joining me now is scott dorkin, sara kensier, navid jamali, author of "how to catch a russian spy" and malcolm nance, msnbc contributor and author of "the plot to hack america." he insisted that it was the greatest, it was the largest number of people to ever witness an inauguration, period. he just screamed that into the camera. i immediately thought of you, because i thought to myself we think this is bizarre in the united states because we've never seen anything like this. but please explain to us how in parts of the world it is actually not bizarre. this is the way it works?
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>> yeah. this happens all the time in authoritarian states. that's why their rulers, they go through the pretense of having elections and then they win with some absurd number like 90% to 95% of the vote. they want to flaunt powers to say we know that you know that this is a lie and we don't care because there's absolutely nothing you can do about it. so the trump administration has been doing this from the beginning. but there's one more thing he's doing, which i think is unique to trump that you don't necessarily see in other authoritarian states and he's extremely sensitive about quantitative metrics of popularity. he's obsessed with ratings, he's obsessed with rankings and that's because he's trying to pull an extremist position into the mainstream. he also came in at a record low popularity for an incoming president. and so it's very important for him to try to be pretend he has a mandate, to try to predend that he's beloved. i think he's very thin-skinned personally so this affects him personally, he has very little
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self control so there's two things going on. one is a typical authoritarian power play and one is the unique personality traits of trump and highs ceaseless need for admiration. >> and he's also, i think those are really important points but he's also sending out his people, the people that are supposed to be the face of the administration, the trusted voices of the administration, to lie and to lie with venom, right? something that happened this morning on "meet the press" and if it hasn't aired in your cities i apologize for the spoiler alert. this is kellyanne conway talking to our very own chuck todd and saying something i have yet to hear an american administration play, and we've heard a lot. let's play kellyanne conway and chuck todd, please. >> the president asked the white house press secretary to come out in front of the podium for the first time and utter a falsehood. why did he do that? it undermines the credibility of
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the entire white house press office -- >> no, it doesn't. don't be so overly dramatic about it, chuck. you're saying it's a falsehood and they're giving sean spicer, our press secretary, gave alternative facts to that. but the point remains -- >> alternative facts? alternative facts for the five facts he uttered. the one thing he got right was -- four of the five facts he uttered were just not fact. alternative facts are not facts, they're falsehoods. >> scott, you know, we've heard administrations lie to the american people. we went through the iraq war situation where we were told that there were, you know, vials of bolulinum in trucks that could explode and there were nuclear weapons. it's not that administrations don't lie. but to send a spokeswoman out or senior advisor out to say we now have alternative facts. >> that's absurd. i would assume that she's just
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not qualified for the position at this point because you cannot say that there's alternative facts. it's going to lead to people dying. people are going to get killed over these lies because it's really exposing the fact that they don't live by facts. alternative facts -- it's a lie, that's the bottom line here. it's a lie. >> and we're going to talk about it next hour. we do our media block in the 11:00 a.m. about what the media needs to do about it. and they're lying in ways large and trivial. it's not just lying about big things, it's lying about trif january things. the smithsonian institution, which people come to see, it's a venerable place. they are selling a book that is riddled with made-up falsehoods, alternative facts as kellyanne conway would say about donald trump's biography. you know, is this something we should be laughing at and ridiculing or is this something that should actually be concerning to the american
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people? >> this should actually be concerning to the american people. no one should be laughing at this. i'm afraid to say i'm getting very alarmed just over the last 48 hours. okay, my world where ideal in is called ground truth where we collect intelligence fact, we lay it out, it puts together a mosaic of a picture that gives you the actual broad truth as to what an opponent is doing. what i'm seeing here is a propaganda machine. this is straight out of the russian playbook, the authoritarian playbook. if anyone in the u.s. intelligence community were to ever behave or speak in the way that this administration is doing, they would have their security clearance pulled immediately, they would be taken off of site, they wouldn't be allowed back, and we have names for these people. fabulist, or pathological liars. kellyanne conway has lied right to my face, okay?
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these people are out of touch with reality because they're creating an alternate reality that is a lie. and we have to be on guard for this because they're going to shove it in our face every time. and it will kill americans. absolutely. >> you talk about the intelligence, malcolm, i want to come to navid on this. the other bizarre thing is this trip to the cia. let's play a video of trump walking up to the podium at the cia while he gets an ovation. and so, navid, we don't know who was in that room. we don't know who was cheering. there's a pool report that suggests that the people who were cheering might have been trump staff lined up on the wall. we know the senior leadership wasn't cheering. do you have any insight into what happened in that room? because donald trump just not long ago called though very same people nazis. >> you know, joy, look, it's a
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somber place. this would be like complaining about parking at a wake. i don't know what to compare it to. it's completely bizarre to go on there and focus on the fact that you were on time and life magazine, he claimed he was on it the most ever, which has proven not to be the case. it was just bizarre. there's obviously a division here between the rank and file in the intelligence community who feel slighted. they're concerned and i think they have a right to be. and senior intelligence leadership. if nothing else, donald trump's speech yesterday did nothing to close the gap to sort of heal. what we haven't seen is even with the protests yesterday, we haven't seen the president come out and say, look, i don't necessarily agree with you, but i hear you, which is essentially we want from a leader. we can talk about the legality, but this man is also our leader. and the fact is that he's got to get out ahead of this and do that and lead. and when you have a speech like that yesterday in front of that wall, which is supposed to be a somber place, a place of
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reflection, that doesn't acknowledge that, it's -- frankly, it's disheartening and it's upsetting, i have to say. >> joy, can i cut in real quick. >> very quickly. >> i've been in that hall. i have placed my hand on the stars of my fallen friends. let me tell you something, that room is approximately 25 feet deep. there's enough space there for maybe three rows of 20 people in that exact space of the hall. there's a tea hallway off to the left which is what he was complaining about with the columns which is where all the guests and others there. the cia officers who were in front were not applauding. there is an applause team off to the team. you even see them turn their heads to wonder who the hell is applauding in here. it is a disgrace that that happened on that spot. it is despicable and i am disgusted by the behavior of the trump administration on what they did in that room. >> well, you echo mr. brennan who is the outgoing cia director
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who said basically the same thing. it was disgraceful. trump didn't even reference what was behind him, which was an homage to people who died in defense of their country. stunning. i wish we could more time. we'll have you all back. thank you very much. coming up, a woman who ran hundreds of miles just to attend the women's march in washington. that's next. i didn't know where i was from ethnically. so we sent that sample off to ancestry.
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welcome back to "a.m. joy." this week we've seen the resistance to donald trump take many forms, including rallies, marches and for one small group of incredible women, a protest run. on wednesday evening four women laced up their running shoes and hit the road, starting in new york's harlem neighborhood and making the 240-mile journey here to washington, d.c. their goal, to support reproductive rights by raising money for planned parenthood.
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so far they have already raised more than $90,000, more than twice their original goal. joining me now is the woman who organized that run, allison dezeer. >> thank you for having me. >> you must be tired. >> a little bit. >> how did you come up with the idea? >> you know, i was thinking about my community and thinking -- reflecting on the election and trying to piece together what happened and feeling like i hadn't done enough at the right moment. but i knew that i would have an opportunity to do something if i organized appropriately. so i decided, you know what, i'm going to run to d.c. and raise as much money as possible for planned parenthood. >> why did you pick planned parenthood? >> it's really important to me. women's reproductive rights. i've had a couple of health scares and planned parenthood has been there for me. it's more than just women. there are millions of men and women across the country for whom this is the only resource they have. >> are you concerned -- what are your concerns regarding what it will mean for women?
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>> my key concern is that donald trump in many ways doesn't respect women. so looking to defund planned parenthood is a huge threat to us. i wanted to send this message through this run that we are here. we are going to continue to make our voices heard and really there's power in a small idea. what started off as a small, crazy idea, i shared it and women jumped onboard. for any women, men out there who have an idea, it's really about making this moment important. >> and you're still fund-raising. >> yeah, we are fund-raising until february 1st. we are just above $96,000. >> that's great. are there going to be follow-on actions to the run? >> yeah. i never imagined that it would become this big but i think now i have this platform and it really is an opportunity to continue to engage in this way. i hope to build a relationship with planned parenthood. everyone has been amazing, including cecile richards herself. i hope to sustain this movement and energy because it's a long four years ahead. >> do you see yourself as an activist now? >> yeah. i've always seen myself as an
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activist. i was raised as an activist. i have a lot of privilege. i have amazing parents and amazing family so this is very much in its nature. my nickname powdered feet means you never see the person, just the powder of where her footprints have been. >> thank you for the pin. >> a little gift. >> thank you for the beautiful pin. congratulations. >> thank you. >> get some rest. >> yeah, i'm going to sleep. >> take a break. you need to put your feet up. still to come, donald trump has assembled what some are calling the worst cabinet in history. will they all get confirmed? stay with us.
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do you think that guns have any place in or around schools? >> i think that's best left to locales and states to decide. if the underlying question is --
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>> you can't say definitively that guns shouldn't be in schools? >> well, i will refer back to senator enzee and the school that he was talking about in wyoming. i think probably there i would imagine that there's probably a gun in the school to protect from goeshl gri from potential grizzlies. >> trump's nominee for education secretary struggled in her senate hearing this week, like in this back-and-forth with senator al franken over the standard for assessing schools. >> each student is measured according to the advancement that they're making in each subject area. >> that's growth. that's not proficiency. so in other words, the growth they're making is in growth, the proficiency -- >> proficiency is if they have reached a like third grade level for reading, et cetera. >> no, i'm talking about the debate between proficiency and growth.
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>> yes. >> what your thoughts are on them. >> i was just asking to clarify -- >> well, this is a subject that is -- has been debated in the education community for years. >> new information continues to cast doubt on the cabinet's fitness for office. just before facing the senate finance committee on thursday, it was reported that the treasury secretary nominee did not disclose almost $100 million dollars in assets. joining me now, "newsweek's" kurt eichenwald. my beef with her is she doesn't know the difference between historic and historic cal based on her twitter feed but she doesn't seem to have followed the biggest debate in the education reform world in the country at all. was that a concern of yours or was there something even worse? >> you know, it's hard to know where to start because when you have a nominee who clearly knows
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nothing about the topic that she is supposed to be overseeing, you know, a very large department and dealing with, you have to stand back and say what kind of government is this going to be? you have it in instance after instance. you have, you know, the secretary of health and human services who has some very serious issues. you've got -- you've got the head of housing and urban development, carson, who knows nothing about it. devos clearly is not qualified. and when you have an administration whose entire position is always we're the greatest, we're the best, we just don't know anything, it's very concerning. >> well, i'm sorry to correct you, kurt, i know you're a great journalist. but ben carson is going to talk with steve harvey about housing. it's going to be fine. you know, steve harvey is a
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celebrity and it's going to be fine. i'm sorry, that was being too snarky. you mentioned in passing hhs, that's tom price. let's play a little of tom price being asked by al franken about his tobacco stock purchases. take a listen. >> how do you square reaping personal financial gain from the sales of an addictive product that kills millions of americans every decade with also voting against measures to reduce the death toll inflicted by tobacco? >> well, it's an interesting question, senator, and it's a curious observation. i have no idea what stocks i held in the '90s or the 2000s or even now. >> i find it very hard to believe that you did not know that you had tobacco stocks. >> and you know, kurt, there's this running theme, because this is a billionaire cabinet. these are very rich people who seem to be completely clueless apparently about what assets they own.
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>> that's not actually all that unusual. i mean there are a lot of these people who have, you know, managed accounts where they're sort of turning over the daily trading to somebody else. with price, one of the things that's really troubling is they tried to claim they had one of these accounts that was managed by somebody else, which he does. but one of these stocks where he received some information in advance about some good things that were happening, he called up morgan stanley and he set up a situation where he was engaging in the trade. and so you have that going, well, you have somebody who's managing your account. why in this one instance when you have particular information are you running and doing it completely different? so price has these issues. i mean, you know, there are other ones, other billionaires in the cabinet, wilbur ross, who's at the commerce department. you know, he's going to fall
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into that same category. but wilbur ross is a very smart man. one of the things that i think is good about him is that in terms of business, you know, donald trump is not a respected businessman in the business world. wilbur ross is. he is going to be the one who's going to have to dole with trump on trade issues. trump -- i've known trump since '87. ross is going to intimidate him because ross is smarter than trump. and so in terms of worrying about what are we going to do in international trade, we can look at wilbur ross, not worry so much about donald trump. >> that's good news this morning. steve mnuchin also, we don't have time to play it, but claimed that he wasn't aware or he denied that he used a cayman island offshore account to hide his assets. he claimed that the forms were too hard for him to understand and that's why he wasn't able to get his $100 million assets listed. you know, this is a guy who foreclosed on a little old lady
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who left 29 cents off of a mortgage form. i don't know where to begin here. is there one cabinet member who stands out to you as particularly bad or this is just across the board? >> no, there are real -- i actually tweeted the other day, here are the good members, here are the questionable members, here are the maybe they'll be okay and here are the nightmares. a and mnuchin, i can say he did a bad job as executive producer of "suicide squad" and that's what we're talking about. that's the real guy. how he'll do as secretary of the treasury, if he can't fill out the forms that every other secretary of the treasury has filled out, you know, then he's not qualified for the job. >> well, now that you've told me that he had anything to do with "suicide squad" which had one of
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the most yawning gaps between the quality of the trailer and the quality of the film of anything that's ever been put out by hollywood, now i'm really terrified. kurt eichenwald, thanks a lot. >> thanks for having me. coming up in our next hour, michael moore joins us live to talk about how donald trump is doing in his brand new job. more "a.m. joy" after the break. it's just a date. i can stay.
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jumbotron, 1.5 million. well played. up next, what we don't know about donald trump's policy on africa. this is the silverado special edition. this is one gorgeous truck. oh, did i say there's only one special edition? because, actually there's 5. aaaahh!! ooohh!! uh! holy mackerel. wow. nice. strength and style. which one's your favorite? (laughter) come home with me! trade up to the silverado all star edition and get an average total value of eight thousand one hundred fifty dollars when you find your tag. find new roads at your local chevy dealer. so we know how to cover almost alanything.ything, even mer-mutts. (1940s aqua music) (burke) and we covered it, february third, twenty-sixteen.
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i feel responsible for murder and slaughter that's taken place in south sudan that's not being reported on, partly because there's not as much social media being generated from there. because of my office, because i'm president of the united states, i feel responsible. >> well, now that the responsibility for intervention isn't south sudan and guiding all u.s. policy in south africa falls to donald trump, so far we've heard nothing on what that policy might be. but he'll walk into his first day on the job with south sudan's civil war devolving toward what the u.n. secretary general fears could become a genocide. on the heels of a political stalemate in gambia where the
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leader finally said that he would step down after losing an election, west african troops were preparing to force him out of office. the closest thing we've seen to any trump approach to africa was a questionnaire sent to the state department by his team, which as "the new york times" reports indicates an overall skepticism about the value of foreign aid and about american security interests on the continent. joining me is writer and political commentator lola. let me read you an excerpt from the questionnaire the trump transition team sent to the state department. it is interesting. why does u.s. business compete with other nations in africa? are we losing out to the chinese? or how does u.s. business compete with other nations in africa? are we losing out to the chinese? with so much corruption in africa, how much of our funding is stolen? why should we spend these funds on africa when we were suffering
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here in the u.s.? is pepfar worth the massive investment when there are so many security concerns in africa? is pepfar becoming a massive, international entitlement program? pepfar is the program initiated and really pushed by george w. bush to try to eradicate hiv/aids on the continent. what do you make of those questions? >> it's good that they're actually asking questions because so far we've heard about how donald trump feels about mexico and china, but we've heard very little about africa. so i'm glad they're asking questions. however, the questions sort of seem to suggest a real ignorance about the continent. africa is a very complex and nuanced continent with a lot going on from a lot of different levels, whether that is humanitarian issues, a growing entrepreneurship class and its relationship with china so i'm glad they're asking questions. i would have asked very different questions. >> what would you have recommended that they ask?
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>> well, what i think this signifies really is actually you can hear that america first idea coming out through these questions. it's basically what are we doing here, why do we care. the thing is that china is actually, you know, really expanding in africa, has been for a number of years now. if donald trump is serious that he wants to be a rival to china, he better have a look at what's going on in africa, because africa is a massive continent with a billion people and china has a billion people, which means actually if china keeps working with africa, it will make africa strong, stronger, and china and africa can become allies pretty much against america potentially, which can be very good for africa, might not be so good for america. >> let's talk about the two conflicts that are roiling right now because maybe the trump team may want to find out africa is a continent with lots of countries and you've got two facing some
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challenges. let's talk about gambia first. yayah is going to leave the country. the trump team, did they dodge a bullet or is this something that the united states probably would not have gotten directly involved in? >> well, he has left the country, so there is still regional forces who are there to make sure that he doesn't come back or that nothing kicks off in terms of violence. and it was -- it was basically the presence of moratania and guinea that helped foster -- there was some international pressure as well. i think it's really important, even if the trump administration does take this america first view, to realize that we live in a world with everything that affects everywhere else kind of affects us too. and syria, as we know, is a massive humanitarian crisis at the moment. and it's possible that south sudan, which you've mentioned, could become the second one, which means displacement of people. all of these things matter
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because people leave. then it becomes how do we look after the people who are in poverty, who don't have food. america cannot turn away from that. i do think america has a responsibility not just to look after itself but to also use its influence for other places in the world. >> and i'm glad that you mention that because south sudan has it becomes an increasing crisis could exacerbate the refugee crisis in europe. >> exactly. >> when people leave, generally they leave and go to europe. how might that further destabilize the european continent which is facing its own wave of trumpism and brexitism largely being driven by syrian refugees being introduced into these countries. >> it's a very serious issue. one of the reasons you've seen this populism in europe is because some people are angry about what they consider to be this influx of refugees from places like syria. over the past year we've seen
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horrific images of people trying to cross the mediterranean, kids dying on beaches and these sorts of things. the more people are in conflict situations around the world and try to flee and go to other countries, europe in particular and/or america, although america is obviously harder to reach, but people try and come here, just the more difficult life becomes for everybody. so it's very difficult for any government to turn away and just say we're not interested. >> yeah. well, we shall see what happens. lola, thank you for being here. >> thank you. up next, the media faced their first big test on how to cover donald trump and the new white house. so how did we do? not great. more "a.m. joy" after the break. i'm all the techy stuff you got crammed into your brand-new car. i'm so sexy, you can't keep your hands off me. do it again. there you go... i can do whatever you want. except keep your eyes on the road. now would be a good time to have new car replacement.
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and they sort of made it sound like i had a feud with the intelligence community. and i just want to let you know the reason you're the number one stop, it is exactly the opposite. exactly. and they understand that too. >> welcome back to "a.m. joy." if you've been tuning in on a regular, and you should see, you know that in our 11:00 hour we've been grappling with the question of how we in the media cover donald trump and how we can do so without become complicit in his normalization. on saturday we got our first example of how media are approaching that question now that trump is president. if you watched all three cable networks saturday morning, including this one, you would have seen donald trump at the national cathedral for the inaugural prayer service. but what you would not have seen is any indication that just a few miles away at the exact same time, history was being made as more than half a million people, a majority of them women, were responding to the message trump sent at his inaugural with a
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message of his own. if the story about this week is the ordinary pomp and circumstance that accompanied trump's inauguration, then the story is incomplete without also talking about the extraordinary show of resistance against it. joining me now is masha guesson, author of "the man without a face, the unlikely rise of vladimir putin." masha, it's a real privilege to have you on today. you wrote a piece and i want to read a few things that you've written in "the new york times" and it's autocracy rules for survival. believe the autocrat. don't be taken in by small finds of nor mality. institution will not save you. be outraged. don't make compromises and rule six, remember the future. can you explain, first of all, what "remember the future" means? >> well, it means that, first of
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all, it's an attempt to give us a little bit of hope because nothing is forever, not even donald trump. and certainly not trumpism. but also it's -- we have to be mindful of how we behave during this administration because if we want to have something to go back to when it's over, we need to protect what we have, the elements of our democracy and the elements of our media culture. >> and what we've seen so far in just the first 24 hours of donald trump's presidency is that he and his people, he and his team, are willing to go out and lie on small things, and things that are very easily disproven. the size of their crowds versus barack obama's crowds. this book full of lies about his history. going to the cia and saying i was never in a feud with you. he called them nazis literally weeks ago. what do we do about someone -- how do we respond in the media to someone who lies to our face about small things? >> well, i don't think there's
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an easy answer but i think there are a couple of things. first of all, we have to understand what he and now his administration are doing with lying, right? he is not actually trying to make us believe something that is not true, because that's impossible. he went up and lied about the weather, right? saying that it poured after he finished speaking, which is blatantly not true. what he's trying to do actually is he's trying to use language to assert power. he is saying i am so powerful, i'm so big, that i can say whatever i want and get away with it. so we just need to understand that. >> i want to play really quickly donald trump. and this was the -- he did a concert on the lincoln memorial on thursday that was attended by an estimated 10,000 people. 400,000 people attended the equivalent concert for barack obama in 2009. but donald trump wanted to assert this was some
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unprecedented success. let's take a listen. >> this started out tonight being a small little concert and then we had the idea maybe we'll do it in front of the lincoln memorial. i don't know if it's ever been done before, but if it has, very seldom. we didn't know if anybody would even come tonight, this hasn't been done before, ah you look. >> and this is something so easily checkable. of course it was done before. it was done by barack obama eight years ago, he did the same concert there. no, it was not the largest turnout and, no, they didn't start it as a large idea. they desperately tried to get big stars to perform. they offered ambassadorships to bookers who could get them and he didn't get any. what does he get out of that kind of a sort of silly lie? >> well, basically he gets to assert that he has a bigger microphone, which is actually an expression he's practically used when he talked about how he's going to fight the media. and we have to understand that
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fact checking or at least fact checking alone is not going to be effective against this. at this point reading the coverage of his speeches, especially his speech to the cia yesterday, is just almost tedious because, yes, of course he lied about every single thing that he said. what's the bigger picture? what's this man doing with the way that he's lying? and also how do we behave? how do we act when now his press secretary is also using the white house press briefing to lie? >> what would you suggest? because i do feel like the media is flummoxed. what would you suggest we do differently? >> well, there are no easy solutions. it's easy for me to say, i'm not a white house correspondent. but i think white house correspondents have to think seriously about whether or not to attend white house briefings anymore because if the white house briefing is going to be used to express disinformation, then what's the point of, you
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know, validating it by going there. >> yeah. i want to bring in my friends here, e.j. dionne and joan walsh. joan wals this morning, e.j., i woke up, turned on local news. and the local news story said dispute over size of crowds and essentially did the trump team says one thing on the one hand, the fact checkers and facts say something on the other hand. they did exactly the thing that i was most afraid would happen. and so if we in the national media were to do everything that masha gesson suggested but the local news still plays into trump's hands, are we just doomed? >> i don't think we're doomed. first of all, i appreciate you mentioning at the top, it's an honor to be with masha gesson here who's a very brave woman
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confronting vladimir putin and her piece was really formative in my own view of everything going forward because part of what an autocrat does is to deny reality and try to shape his own reality, regardless of what the facts are. and, yes, there cannot be an equivalence between truth and lies. there are certain things that are debatable. there are many views that are debatable. facts aren't debatable and it should be stated clearly when something is untrue. i think we also need to be very conscious, there are two sides to this. joan and i are in the opinion side. i think we on the opinion side have to be very careful to uphold our commitment to fact. nothing we write is about distorting facts. we should live with the facts even when they are inconvenient for us. >> sure. >> but our friends on the other side have a much harder job because trump is going to try to
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turn mainstream journalists, whose job is to simply report the truth, into the opposition party. and when reporting the truth becomes a political act and is seen as an oppositional act, we've got a real problem in helping our fellow citizens understand, wait, these are facts and these are not facts. >> if we can just put up the split screen again of the two crowd sizes, because it's a trivial thing, joan, but it's also a thing where they're almost gas lighting you into trying to think that you're insane. sean spicer said two things. he made a lot of lies at his press conference. he said that the picture that you see of trump's inauguration versus obama's is not real. one of them shows tarps ground, which is making you think there are fewer people, but there aren't fewer real. he also said magnetometers were used and security didn't allow people to get in. jim acosta, one of the enemy, as e.j. put it --
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>> who, by the way, is a very old-fashioned reporter. >> said no, no, they talked to the u.s. secret service, there was no magnetometers used on the national mall so something easily disprovable. but you now have people on twitter, trump people, and we don't know if they're real or fake, saying the media is lying about trump's crowd size. there were millions of people there and they're not telling us because they're liars. so there are people who are buying this immediately and becoming trump's cheering section on this. >> well, there are going to be people who absolutely believe it. and i believe like what masha is telling us or what i'm taking away this morning is, yes, we're going to talk about this this morning but at a certain point we have to start treating his lies as even news. it's not news anymore when somebody routinely lies. you put it -- you put it as a lie in a story and you move on. i think cnn last night didn't go to -- i want to shout out to a rival cable network, i think they didn't actually take the
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whole spicer briefing because -- they didn't take it live because they wanted to see what is news there. i think, you know, especially with tight budgets, with tight budgets in journalism, we've got to really shift the way we cover this white house because we're not going to be getting -- sean spicer is going to be angrily apoplectically yelling at reporters. why? why dignify that by being in the room or have interns in the room to be yelled at while your best people are out actually reporting the news. >> masha, can i ask you, the white house has a tremendous power to control the way that particularly television media behaves. they can put sean spicer at a podium and all of the media shows up. they can put donald trump in church and even though there's literally nothing happening, he's literally just sitting there not moving, he's inert, media is going to rush in and every pool camera, every network is going to go boom, boom, bottom, watching him, watching
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the head of state rather than watching the news, meaning the 500,000 women gathered to protest him so we're watching the leader and not watching the news. you, as e.j. said, covered vladimir putin, which is no small thing. is this what putin does? are we overreacting to see this as putinesque? >> it's absolutely what putin does. and what we saw happen in russia, and in some ways it's not a comparable situation. what we saw happen in russia, very quickly the media split into opposition and loyal media, but they all had the same agenda. they all had putin on the front page all the time, even if he did nothing, right? even if he only went to church, exactly like you said. but they would report it with a slightly different tone. but the kremlin completely got to control the story. and so things that were happening that the kremlin wasn't paying attention to, and this is something we're going to see here, we're already seeing here, weren't being reported.
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that is just a narrative that wasn't in the media. >> could i just say something. one of the things that really petrifies me here is there will be 25%, 30% of the country, trump loyalists who believe what they put out because they don't trust the other side. but there are a lot of americans out there who care a lot about the country, are not obsessed with politics. they want to believe their government tells the truth more or less. and what the trump folks will do with this is create doubt in people's minds, fuzz up the facts, and say, gee, maybe those crowds were bigger than the media said. and you get to this point where the facts get so fuzzed up that eventually they disappear. and so i'm worried about an insidious long-term effect if they really pursue this. it's a cliche to site george dort wel orwell, but it is an orwell ian
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moment. masha gesson, thank you for being here. >> thank you for having me. >> it was a pleasure to talk to you. before we go to break, i want to recognize the great investigative journalist wayne barrett. he passed away thursday at age 71 due to complications from lung disease. wayne literally wrote the on donald trump after delivering unflinching reporting on trump's scandals dating back to the late 1970s. he left us all a blueprint for courageous and responsible coverage of the trump presidency and he did that right up until the very end. we were so fortunate to have wayne as a guest right here on "a.m. joy" when he phoned in from his sick bed back in november. up next, michael moore joins us live. stay with us. ery doll count. that's why i have the spark cash card from capital one. with it, i earn unlimited 2% cash back on all of my purchasing. and that unlimited 2% cash back from spark means thousands of dollars each year going back into my business...
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i want you to call congress every single day.
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on monday, call them and tell your senators, and you can get them at the same number, we do not accept betsy devos as our secretary of education. >> that was filmmaker michael moore on saturday at the women's march on washington. michael moore joins us now. michael, you still had your colin kaepernick cap, so now that i know that that's what that is, i have to remind people of that. tell me why did you decide to be a part of the women's march on washington? and you were telling people call your congressmen or call your senator. have you seen any signs that people are doing that? >> well, no, because monday morning is our first mass -- but i'm glad you brought thaup, though. the great thing about the congressional switchboard is that it's open on weekends and somebody will answer it. they will send you to your member or congress or your senator's voice mail. even if you don't know your member of congress, just give them your zip code and they'll
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gladly send you to their direct line voice mail. so i encourage people to -- people do not understand how important these calls are to congressmen. when i had a show here on nbc, i remember one time warren littlefield the head of nbc at the time said we got nine calls about your show last night. i said you mean from the country? he goes yes. i said how many calls does it take before you start to get upset about things? about nine. i thought boy, if the american people knew they only had to make nine calls, it's like -- and i had the president of nbc on me. so he's a good guy. but i'm just saying that your members of congress, their job is up every two years. so they do care what you think. the best example of that was when they tried to get rid of the congressional office of ethics and kellyanne conway was right here in this building that morning supporting what the
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republicans had done the night before. i went on facebook and twitter. within two hours we jammed the congressional switchboard and after 10:00 donald trump went on twitter and said we got more important things to do today. let's just drop this. >> you know, you said the magic words and the magic words are kellyanne conway. i'm glad that you mention that, michael, because kellyanne conway was on "meet the press" earlier this morning and she said something that i still find stunning and i've lost the capacity to be shocked. i want to play it for you because i'd be very interested to get our take on it. >> and watch how shocked i will me. >> poker face on. >> test me, test me. >> the president asked the white house press secretary to come out in front of the podium for the first time and utter a falsehood. why did he do that? it undermines the credibility of the entire white house press office -- >> no, it doesn't. don't be so -- don't be so
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overly dramatic about it, chuck. you're saying it's a falsehood and they're giving, sean spicer, our press secretary, gave alternative facts to that. but the point means -- >> wait a minute, alternative facts? alternative facts? four of the five facts he uttered. the one thing he got right was zeke miller. four of the five facts were not true. alternative facts are not facts, they're falsehoods. >> your thoughts, michael moore. alternative facts. >> george orwell. oh, my god. he could -- you know what, orwell actually wouldn't have a job because he's supposed to make this stuff up as a fiction writer if he lived today. that's just the most incredible thing i have heard. well, okay, i know a lot of people now are going, well, there's a lot of americans who will buy that. that's true. but not the majority. and that's what we saw i think yesterday too, is that the majority of this country didn't
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vote for donald j. trump. i don't just mean the 3 million difference but also the seven million who voted green or libertarian, so that's over 10 million people who voted not to have trump. so at least take some solace this morning in knowing that, yes, there are people that will nod their head and go, yes, alternative facts, but the majority i know aren't buying it and won't buy it. >> yeah. and you very brilliantly went out to trump country for the most recent documentary you did. we talked about it before on this show, and talked to trump voters. i'm curious to know as you were in those crowds yesterday talking with the people at the women's march and women and men that were at the women's march, did you meet anyone there who voted for donald trump? if so, what did they say? >> i did not -- the day before i did. i went to the inaugural parade and was there on the route with a few trump supporters. it was quite empty, the stands i'm sure katy tur here posted a
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great video of a tracking shot of the parade route and the empty stands. but i did run into trump voters. and i asked them, especially -- i remember one woman. i said -- she was telling me that she voted for trump. i said really? in spite of his attitudes toward women and the things that he said? and she said, well, you know, women, a lot of us, we've just had to learn to take it over the years. you know, that's how my dad talked and that's how my brothers talk. and i thought, oh, geez. you know, it was such a reminder of still how far we have to go. i was at this one thing, john leguizamo, hispanic, he says i'm hispanic and i always thought racism was our number one problem that we have to deal with, but this election really showed that we've ignored the
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misogyny and the sexism that is still so prevalent and ingrained. ingrained in many of the victims, the 46% of women that have voted for women and the 53% of white women that voted for trump. and that's -- well, that just says that we've got more work to do and we'll keep doing it. >> and as you -- i don't know if you had this experience of talking to people who were at the women's march who said it was the first time they had been joyful since november 9th. that they finally were able to come out of their houses without crying. did you get a sense that this is lasting energy, this is energy that can actually flip an election. >> oh, yeah. >> or was this just a momentary cathars catharsis. >> oh, no. i asked the crowd when i was speaking how many of you are at a protest in d.c. for the first time in your lives? more than half raised their hand. on the amtrak back here late last night, there were six women sitting across the aisle and i
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asked them, and they're all from brooklyn and these are, you know, educated people, whatever. first time for all six of them that they had ever been to d.c. for a protest. it was -- that's why it was so huge. so many people have come out of the house, so many people have come out of their lethargy, their apathy or their -- well, it will be okay, somebody else will fix it. we're going to see so much of this. i mean the fact that we had a million there, probably another 2 to maybe even 3 million if you count all 300 other demonstrations around this country and another 300 demonstrations around the world. it was one of the largest -- certainly for this country, the largest protest in our history there in d.c. and it was -- it was so exhilarating. i think everybody there was so proud to be an american, so believing in this country, that we have the power to do this, that we don't have enough representatives in congress, but
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we are going to somehow going to do whatever we can do to stop this. and i gave some very specific things that people can do. >> i'm going to let you say the number in a minute but we have about 20 seconds. if you could make your case as a michigander. give us the 20-second version about bet ssy devos. >> she's helped to create a billion dollar for-profit charter school system. amway, which is the fortune that she's from, as totally ruined us. she could not be our secretary of education. please, america, you have to call your senators tomorrow. 202-225-3121. call that number. they'll put you through. make your voice heard. we can stop this. and may i please say to the democrats, keith ellison as our new dnc chair. we need fresh blood. he's an organizer.
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we have to organize this thing. we've lost the white house twice in 16 years when we've won the vote. this has to stop. >> yeah. we're going to put up the number for anybody who wants to call their congressperson. that is not a partisan thing. anybody can call their congressperson. we'll put the number up and it will actually route you to your member of congress if you don't know who that is and you should. there it is, the number is up so call your congressperson, call your senators. get to know who they are. >> the number is 202-225-3121. 202-225-3121. that is the correct number. michael moore, thank you so much for being here. >> thank you, joy. thanks for all you do. thanks to everybody who showed up yesterday, it was great. the women are going to lead this revolution. >> thank you so much, appreciate it. coming up, our weekly snl watch, and we, presume, donald trump hate watched it too. stay with us.
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all right. one quick clarification. tru ism trumpism confuses everyone. the number is 202-224-3121. that's the full capitol switchboard. the other number gets you to the house representatives. 202-224-3121 gets you to any representative, any senator, you give them your information and they'll put you through. so call. meanwhile saturday night live paid homage to donald trump's inauguration with a special message from one of trump's biggest fans. >> hello, america. yesterday we all made donald trump the 45th president of the united states. hurray, we did it! and today many of you are scared and marching in the streets. you are worried that your country is in the hands of this unpredictable man.
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but don't worry. it's not. donald, let's talk as friends. you're not off to a great start, man. i thought you'd be better at this. however, i'm glad to see so many people showed up to your inauguration. oh, wait, that's the woman's march. here is inauguration. and today you went to the cia and said one million people came to see you in washington, d.c.? if you're going to lie, don't make it so obvious. say you are friends with lebron jam james. who knows, one day your country could be as happy as we are here in russia. we are not divided. like you, because all our people -- >> no word yet on what donald
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trump thought of last night's show. just check his twitter feed, he'll tell you eventually. up next, more "a.m. joy." it's beautiful. was it a hard place to get to? (laughs) it wasn't too bad. with the chase mobile app, jimmy chin can master depositing his hard earned checks in a snap. easy to use chase technology for whatever you're trying to master. i never want to miss these cmoments due to my pain. i live for this. arthritis used to get in the way. but now with blue-emu maximum arthritis cream, i'll never miss another hug.
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the president asked the white house press secretary to come out in front of the podium for the first time and utter a falsehood. why did he do that? it undermines the credibility of the entire white house press office -- >> no, it doesn't. don't be so overly dramatic about it, chuck. you're saying it's a falsehood and they're giving sean spicer, our press secretary, gave alternative facts to that. but the point remains -- >> wait a minute, alternative facts? alternative facts, four of the five facts he uttered. four of the five facts he uttered were just not true. look, alternative facts are not facts, they're falsehoods. >> back with me, joan walsh and e.j. dionne, joan and e.j., alternative facts is now
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trending on twitter as is #amjoy, i might add. this idea that you can say i don't like these facts, here are alternative facts. >> it was interesting so she paused before she said it, so she knew she was lying. she was venturing into new territory even for the trump people to coin this term "alternative facts" rather than falsehoods. chuck todd deserves kudos for going right back and saying, no, this is falsehoods. this idea that we're being overly dramatic, we in the media when we respond to these lies are being overly dramatic, it is again a form of gaslighting and it's designed to make chuck todd, who is not dramatic in that way at all -- >> and is not partisan at all. >> not partisan, straight down the middle. he's the hysterical one? >> right. >> it's just so interesting. we've got to learn how to repel it. >> chuck can be proud for the rest of his life that the sentence alternative facts or falsehoods will stick with him and that was a very good thing
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that he said. i've thought this before. imagine if my new england patriots beat the pittsburgh steelers today and if you're a steelers fan, flip this script, and then after the game a sports commentator or the steelers coach comes on and says we won. and he says, no, you lost. he said, no, i have alternative facts. we would not tolerate that in sports coverage. a sports commentator who said that or a spokesman for the steelers would be thrown out of their jobs. we need the same standards in politics as we have in sports and other parts of our life. and i think it's going to be very tough, because if people from the administration come on shows and simply straight out lie and accuse those of calling them on it of being overly dramatic, maybe they don't belong on tv shows anymore. and that's really -- i know that's a hard thing to say, but if they're not going to tell the truth, what is the point of
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showing it to the public. >> of having them on. i struggle with that on this show. you want to presenting the other side but if they're literally just going to tell you a stream of lies but want to get it out, because the thing is we also in the media have incredible power to get their message out. if you -- once they have gotten the sentence out, it's like being in court and you can put something that's clearly admissible to the jury. but once you've said it, it can't be unheard. and i want to talk to you guys about some of the really specific things where i think this could be a problem. you have donald trump come out and sign this executive order essentially saying that the -- any administrative office, any office in the administration can essentially cease to do obamacare. they can get rid of anything that they think grants an undue burden, exercise all authority and discretion available, health and human services to wave human grant services. people are being hurt by their coverage being diminished, by their opportunities to get insurance being diminished and sean spicer says, no, they're
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not. nobody is suffering. no, they're not. then you try to find the data on people's insurance and hhs doesn't give it to you. >> i think that's where we are. i think we really are in a place where they're going to scrub the data. they're scrubbing websites now. and it's really a challenge. i mean i know a lot of academics and others who are working to preserve the data that they already have. i mean there's a robust community studying the aca and they know -- they know what the numbers are now. but it's going to be on us to go out and report and find the people who lost their coverage and report that they lost it because of trump, not because of obama, because the other thing that i'm worried about is they're going to make it seem like well, that's just obamacare, we told you it was falling apart. >> that's so important because i think one of the biggest fights from here forward will be if they do things to undermine w m obamacare and doing what they did this week is the beginning of that process, they're going to try to get around what the cbo reported which is, no, it's
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their plan that is pulling coverage from people. they're going to try to create this smoke screen that says, oh, these were inherent in obamacare, which was not true. could i just say one other thing that i think is going to be so important to everybody, both parties, particularly by the way to business, our government produces enormous amounts of good data. republicans, democrats have all said we want honest data from the government because this helps business, this helps civic groups, this helps people all over the country. it sounds really nerdy to say protect the government's data, but we really need to do that. >> and you've already had indications that republicans would like to see some of that data go away. the data about scoring of the budget bills that are coming out. republicans did a thing when obama was in office of saying even the bureau of labor statistics is lying and when you get those great unemployment numbers, it's made up. people who were well respected business community leaders went on television and said those
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numbers aren't real. now we have a situation where maybe we really won't be able to trust the data that's coming out. und wh and you know what, republicans in congress, it's not clear that they'll do anything to protect the congressional budget office or protect anything other than donald trump and i think that's going to be a huge question. we will talk about that and many other things when i guests come back. coming up at noon, a day after more than a million people rallied around the world, how can democrats build on the massive display of people power? alex witt will have a closer look at the top of the hour. but up next, more "a.m. joy." per roll
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. all right, it is time to ask my guests what will be the big headlines of the week. we have brought back malcolm nance. what are thoughts? >> i think they think they can control tillerson to some extent and that any overly loving statements by tillerson toward moscow.
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>> they wouldn't retain anybody from the obama administration. and the state department is rudderless. >> three already said no, they were already packing up their offices, they literally gave them 24 hours' notice, which is simply bizarre. >> i thought john mccain and lindsay graham were going to hold out and vote no because of his ties to russia. both of them have decided that compared to some of the other guys and given what he said at the hear, tillerson might be more reasonable. but it's distressing to watch republicans fall in line behind
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trump. especially people like mccain and graham who have been so resistant. >> do you expect it to be any different this time? >> it is disappointing, they talk a good game, but in the end, they all support him. >> what's your headline? >> my headline is media respond to the challenge that they are willing to invent or deny facts. we saw that this morning when we saw kellyanne conway's alternative facts. but this effort to turn the gathering of truth and fact into a partisan act is a fundamental challenge to what a free media are supposed to do. >> would you be surprised -- i mean would it surprise you if suddenly the white house media started refusing to show up to things? >> it would surprise me, but i think we might be going there, i think we're starting to see
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people understand the way they're going to be treated. >> what's your headline? >> donald trump has a massive legitimacy crisis, his first day in office, millions march against him. the media is getting wise to his maneuvers, it's going to be a very interesting next couple months. >> yes, torture is interesting. this is going is to be a very difficult time. >> i want to point out two interesting tweets from donald trump in the last 24 hours, one his first response to the protests, his initial response, watched protests yesterday but was under the impression that we just had an election, why didn't these people vote? that's a very trumpy tweet. and then this morning, and this was actually not long after, i think not long after you started to see the outcry against sean spicer start to hit the sunday
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shows. peaceful protests are part of our democracy, i recognize the rights of people to express their views. nobody believes that this wasn't written by staff. it's written on and an dro andre that can't tell when he or staff are writing. >> these will two die metical t opposed -- in particular, how are our allies abroad supposed to make sense of this, especially after an inaugural address of the sort he gave, which seemed to walk away from 70 years of foreign policy. >> that's what you mean when you talk about legitimacy. >> and malcolm, i have to throe this last one to you, because we
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didn't have chance to get into it. it is very putinesque, do you think that thump will be able to use these twitter tones to fool people into thinking he's changing. >> absolutely not. but that's up to the media, because the public isn't fooled from the people that i'm hearing. it's entirely up to the media, this is going to be a game of wanting access above accuracy, then you are playing literally into the hands of a propaganda machine that is far beyond anything i have seen out of russia. that's what thomas jefferson warned about. that is our show for today,
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a.m. joy will be back. up next, alex witt has the latest on the reaction to saturday's massive women's marches, more news at the top of the hour.
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we have some breaking news from georgia. severe weather sweptthrough the southern part of that state a powerful tornado touched down earlier today. that has been blamed for some of the deaths. let's check out this live radar. tornado warnings are now in effect for certain parts of alabama and also florida. the south has just been pounded by deadly storm this is weekend. in hastitiesberg, mississippi, that storm cut a 25-mile path

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