tv MSNBC Live MSNBC January 29, 2017 9:00am-10:01am PST
airport in protest of president donald trump's executive order banning immigrants from seven countri countries. it is just one of a number of rallies expected to start in the next few hours. i'm alex witt at world headquarters in new york. it's the first in consequence for the trump administration and protesters tangling over the president's executive order. that debate expected to spill over into the streets in the coming hours in city after city with demonstrations planned across the time zones whether they reach yesterday's numbers remains to be seen. it is also a debate that spilled on to your television screens this morning with both administration and opposition voices entrenched in their positions. and in the white house the president who ordered the ban with the stroke of a pen will be on the phone in the next few hours with two arab leaders, heads of largely muslim states. those are just the broad strokes of this day's breaking news and in minutes we'll tell you more about dallas where
protesters remain at this hour. a short time ago here's what they chanted. [ crowd chants all the walls have got to go ] . >> in just minutes we'll also go to some of the nation's busiest airports. adam rice is here in new york at jfk. sarah dolloff is in hartsfield in atlanta. first, the roiling debate and backlash over president trump's travel ban. reince priebus, his chief of staff on the airport detention immediately after the president signed that executive order. >> it seems that a lot of the chaos yesterday could have been avoided had you at least included some sort of timed grace period. why was that not included? >> i don't think you want to have a grace period, chuck, because then people that want to
do bad things to americans will just move up their travel date two days in order to get into the country before the grace period is over. perhaps some of these people should be detained further and if they're folks that shouldn't be in this country they're going to be detained and so apologize for nothing here. >> also new today senate majority leader mitch mcconnell is speaking for the first time with this morniwarning to the president. >> i think it is a good idea to tighten the vetting process and also it's important to remember that some of our best sources in the war against radical islamic terrorism are muslims both in this country and overseas. i don't want to criticize them for improving vetting. i think we need to be careful. we don't have religious tests in this country. >> meanwhile, strong words from democratic congressman seth multion, a former marine corps officer on whether general mattis played a role in the executive order.
>> i worked for general mattis. i know him. there is no way in hell that he is supportive of this. he relied on translators for his life just like i did, so what's frightening about this situation is it shows that people like general mattis and general kelly clearly don't have a voice in the trump administration. trump is doing for political gain not in the best interests of our national security. >> all of this as the president stands by an interview he gave saying he'd give preferential treatment to two christian refugees. president trump tweeted this morning, christians in the middle east have been executed in large numbers. we cannot allow this horror to continue. that tweeted just about the same time white house secretary sean spic also addressed the matter. >> why are christian refugees more worthy of admission to the united states than muslims or even jewish refugees? >> it's a question in making sure that in some of these countries they are the persecuted group. it's a fact that when they live in a majority country of another
religion they are a minority being persecuted and not able to practice their religion in some cases under threat. >> let's go now to nbc's kelly o'donnell. she's at the white house for us. good day to you. did the administration expect this specific executive order of the 14 in the first week to spark this kind of reaction? >> reporter: we don't get a sense from the officials i've been talking to that they expected this level of protest. however, they have been accustomed to actions from donald trump following through on things he talked about in the campaign season to draw some response. i just have a new comment from a senior white house official that deals with all of this is aing that it is the right and duty of the president to do everything in his legal and constitutional power to protect the american people, and it goes on to say all stopped visas will remain stopped. all halted admissions will remain halted. all restricted travel will remain prohibited. the executive order is a vital action towards strengthening
america's borders and therefore sovereignty. the order remains in place. that's the latest word from the white house in response to all of the protests we've seen and in addition to the limited court order late yesterday that would have barred any deportations of those who had been detained at airports. so there is a sense that they are fighting back against criticism and believe that this is exactly what donald trump told voters he was going to do. you get a sense of the back and forth that's been happening today with counselor to the president kellyanne conway appeon television this morning. >> saudi arabia, f instance, that's where the 9/11 hijackers most of them came from. why not block them? >> congress and president obama's administration came up with a list of seven. we're following on that in week one. this president will certainly keep identifying threats and risks. >> we've heard a lot from officials today about the fact that the seven countries were
identified under the law by congress and the previous administration as a starting point. when asked about other nations that have contributed with terrorism threat. the president will be working the phones as he has been doing receiving a lot of foreign leader calls in this first week now heading into a second week in office. today he's expected to speak to leaders from saudi arabia and the united arab emirates. it would be an expectation that this kind of issue would be discussed. senior officials here acknowledge that although we can't preview exactly what would be a part of the call and also with the president of south korea. so we don't, at this point, expect to see the president today, but we will be hearing about some of these calls that he's making as the reaction to this step, certainly settles in. also, we expect that the protests that have been at airports will also extend today, possibly including some protesters who may want to be close to the white house. alex? >> kelly, those two calls, saudi arabia, uae, the leaders of
those countries, has anybody anecdotally said this is going to be very sensitive given the muslim ban? although -- let me just be clear. it's not called a muslim ban by the trump administration, but many are interpreting it as such and you can imagine the leaders of saudi arabia and uae just might. >> reporter: the president rejects that characterization. others define it that way. this could be a topic that could be a part of those phone calls, but typically the readout after we get after a foreign leader call or an important call from the president will give us some sense of the topic areas, but we won't know exactly what the back and forth was, but i would think the expectation not only are the two countries, saudi arabia and the ua ian important part of the economic structure of the united states and we have strong relationships with both countries, but they are not on that list of seven and may have some questions aboutow this playing out from their view in that part of the world. alex? >> having said that, this list
of seven could certainly expand as it's been said several times. thank you very much, kelly o'donnell from the white house. adam reid is following the protests there. let's talk about what you're seeing there. what are you seeing? >> alex, good afternoon. we're seeing a bunch of detainees being released just within the last hour, good news here. the department of homeland security says they will continue with the deportations to make america safe and secure and that's despite the judge's decision last night in brooklyn federal court to stop these deportations. the aclu reporting here at jfk that despite that judge's order some of the customs agents here are continuing with the deportation. so it's a little difficult to find out what's going on behind closed doors. jennifer crowman, an attorney who has been working all night into the morning to try to get these detainees, joins me now. jennifer, first let's talk about ali baker. >> yes. >> we talked to him earlier this morning. >> yes. >> he was waiting for his
fiance. we got a picture. they have been reunited. tears of joy and what went into trying to get her released. >> we filed a petition for her in the early hours of the morning and then it was a lot of waiting, a lot of worry and we're just thrilled that she's been released and that they've been reunited. >> still, a lot of indecision about what's going on. we don't even know how many detainees are behind closed doors her at terminal 4 at jfk. a lot have come out, but this isn't the end of it. >> that's correct. there may be people and likely are people that are still in transit. there may be people still being held at the terminal and at other terminals and so the group, large group of lawyers that are inside working together from law firms around the city and non-profits will stay here until all the people that we can help have been helped. >> reporter: so you brought up the fact that there could be
people in the air right now who could land on american soil and be turned back. we just don't know. there are people in the air right now. >> correct, and they shouldn't be turned back because the judge's stay is in effect, but they very well may be detained and they will need legal help to try to get them released. >> reporter: all right. so, alex, as you see, confusion at jfk as to how many detainees are still behind closed doors and not just here at jfk and around america and in fact, around the world. >> can i ask you quickly to ask jennifer a question for me. how difficult is it to get the names and access to these detainees to begin with and the conditions they are kept in. she mentioned that woman who was released after 29 hours? was she sitting in an office for 29 hours and were they provided anywhere to sleep or anything during that time? >> reporter: alex is asking how can you get the names of the people that were detained and the conditions in which they
were detained. a customs agent said they were caught by surprise by this order and had no idea it was coming down. it was a flood of people, totally unexpected and they had to follow through on the president's executive order. >> right. we found our clients mostly by talking to the family members who were waiting for them and trying to figure out who needs help, what countries are they from and how we can help. i think in terms of the conditions, obviously being held for 29 or 30 hours in any conditions is very exhausting and upsetting, but we ha no reason to believe that the conditions were particularly bad or particularly good. >> reporter: all right. thank you very much. back to you. >> thank you to you adam and jennif jennifer. let's bring in my colleague steve patterson standing by at lax. what are you, with a welcome to you, hearing about the protests
here? >> reporter: we're hearing about two protests, want one, but two. one starting at 11:00 pacific and another after 1:00 pc.m. pacific. we're hearing about candlelight vigils and based on the feeling and the mood and based on what we saw yesterday, 300 protesters coming out to lax to protest that executive order from president trump. i think the mood here today is clear that this is not over, that there is still much more resistance to be had in response to this based upon the fact that the executive order is not going anywhere and based upon the fact that the conversation you had with adam that there are detainees at these airports and their status is not clear. we don't know how many are here. we don't know what their status is. we don't know, basically, where they're being held. to talk about that, i want to bring in judy. she's an asylum attorney and immigration attorney with public
council. are you frustrated with the lack of information we have so far? >> we are incredibly frustrated and the american people should be frustrated as well. we've been here around the clock. there is now a federal injunction that's in effect. we are essentially encountering a complete blackout of information from the united states government. we last heard from the los angeles police department last night that there may be 40 people detained at cbp at los angeles international airport. >> 40, but of course, the lapd has nothing to do with this. >> the lapd should not be the spokesperson for cbp. we have upwards of 20 attorneys on the ground here and we've yet to have a representative of cbp come and talk to us. the information we have obtained from cbp appears to be misleadi misleading. we were told earlier this morning that a young woman was still here in inspection. we learned very recently from a family member that she was coerced into withdrawing a request to remain here and her
phone his confiscated and she has landed back in europe. >> you had no contact with her prior to that happening? >> when she came into this country she was able to contact her relatives and indicated her phone was confiscated and she was not allowed access to the phone even on the flight back to europe, not until she touched down. judy london, thanks so much. hopefully you can help more people here. >> a frustrating situation for both attorneys and family members who are standing by to hear anything about their loved ones. >> i know it's just 9:15 in l.a. a lot more to come. for anybody wondering cbp, customs and border patrol, that's what that stands for folks. the administration holds firm to its position on the ban. the reporter for "the new york times" joins me. jeremy, let's get right to it. when you hear administration officials earlier today and the
president yesterday you'd think this particular executive order is working just exactly as planned, but what are you gathering behind the scenes? is there any concern that this may have been mishandled? >> i think tha from their perspective inside the tru administration they see this is fulfilling exactly what president trump said he would do on the campaign trail. there are obviously a lot of shock and chaos out there as these orders are implemented, but let's not forget that this is exactly what he said he would do. he didn't whitewash this. he didn't back peddle. he insisted that refugees would be blocked from entering the country and they are. i think that any hiccups, although hiccups is certainly would understate what's happening to a lot of people out there, but any kind of bumps in the way of people being detained for hours and hours on end, i think people inside the trump administration are wholly unsympathetic to that. >> here is the department of homeland security's statement on
the federal judge's emergency stay. dhs says it will comply with judicial orders and faithfully enforce our immigration laws and implement president trump's executive orders to ensure that those entering the united states did not pose a threat to the country and the american people. some of this is kind of confusing. what is your understanding of this, jeremy? >> well, i think, alex, there are -- there is one issue here and that is the extent to which the immigration system is tightened up and the visa process is subject to further vetting. there are plenty of republicans and even democrats who would say, yes, more should be done to screen people coming from these countries that pose a threat. however, what's happened here is an overly broad order that has resulted in detentions, deportations and on top of that, it was not done with the
customary consultation with the agencies like the department of homeland security. so i think that while you have this goal that more than just the trump administration shares, that is having more screening of certain immigrant, it's been carried out in such a way that it's become indefensible to the point that you have republicans who are ordinarily pretty sympathetic to trump or at least deferential to trump like mitch mock connell whose quote you played earlier or orrin hatch questioning whether or not this is all really necessary. >> let's take a look these three executive orders that the presidt signed yesterday. i want to first playor you what former secretary of defense bob gates said about the restructuring of the national security council by making his chief strategist, trump's chief strategist stephen bannon a regular attendee of the principles committee. here it is. >> adding people to the national security council never really
bothers me. my biggest concern is there are actually, under the law, only two statutory advisers to the national security council, and that's the director of central intelligence or the dni and the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff. i think pushing them out of the national security council meetings except when their specific issues are at stake is a big mistake. i think that they both bring perspective and judgment and experience to bear that every president whether they like it or not, finds useful. >> listening to him, jeremy, the two people he said that need to be on that council, the director of national intelligence and the chairman of the joint chiefs, they've been pushed out. so give us your thoughts on this and also your thoughts on steve bannon's role. >> well, this has always been the problem with candidate trump and now with president trump the question of whom does he listen
to? and it's going to be a constant struggle inside this white house. we know he listens to steve bannon. we know that steve bannon was the adviser who counselled trump to bring on a lot of these generals. so to what extent these generals have the input that people like bob gates who reflected there think that they should, i think that that is going to really be an open question here, and we don't know because trump has a history of not listening to his advisers and being ultimately very impulsive and doing what trump wants to do. so i think that, you know, steve bannon, on the national security council as gates said, that is not so much something that should be of concern to people as it is to whom trump is really listening. >> all right. for the record, i always enjoy listening to you. jeremy peterson. >> i always enjoy being on.
what happens next after portions of the president's travel ban was temporarily blocked by federal judges. i'll ask an attorney with the aclu. as we head to break we are monitoring airport protests across the country and here's what it looks like right now at dfw in dallas. dozens are chanting and holding signs to end the ban. ot the hiker i was. i even accept i have a higher risk of stroke due to afib, a type of irregular heartbeat not caused by a heart valve problem. but no matter what path i take, i go for my best. so if there's something better than warfarin, i'll go for that too. eliquis. eliquis reduced the risk of stroke better than warfarin, plus had less major bleeding than warfarin. eliquis had both. don't stop taking eliquis unless your doctor tells you to, as stopping increases your risk of having a stroke. eliquis can cause serious and in rare cases fatal bleeding. don't take eliquis if you have an artificial heart valve or abnormal bleeding. while taking eliquis, you may bruise more easily...
and it may take longer than usual for any bleeding to stop. seek immediate medical care for sudden signs of bleeding, like unusual bruising. eliquis may increase your bleeding risk if you take certain medicines. tell your doctor about all planned medical or dental procedures. i'm still going for my best. and for eliquis. ask your doctor about eliquis. g new cars. you're smart. you already knew that. but it's also great for finding the perfect used car. you'll see what a fair price is, and you can connect with a truecar certified dealer. now you're even smarter. this is truecar.
getting a look at dallas-ft. worth airport. protesters have gathered over president trump's travel restrictions banning travelers and this is the second day of the protests. cecilia from the aclu with a big welcome to you can you explain the challenge that your organization filed in new york in term of the legal basis for
it? >> good morning, alex. >> there were actually two federal court orders that were issued yesterday in aclu cases, the order issued out of the brooklyn federal court was one that applied nationwide and stopped the removal of people who were subject to president trump's order. that order was met with jubilation in brooklyn and quickly around the country as aclu lawyers, other lawyers and people who had mobilized en masse to the airports greeted the order. >> before you go further. so what that means is that people could not be put on a plane and shipped back? that's all that you were able to do? >> that's right. the federal court order out of brooklyn said no removals should happen. the second order out of the federal court in boston also enjoined for a period of seven days under a temporary restraining order any detentions as well as removals under trump's executive order.
the reality was that on the ground immediately after the order we saw chaos, and i believe that the chaos arose from the deliberate decision by the trump administration and by customs and border protection headquarters not to provide clear guidance to agents around the country at airports on what the federal court orders required. so we were struggling with lawyers around the country who had volunteered to show up at the airports trying desperately to get cbp not to continue on with deportations and put people back on planes. we heard reports that some people were, in fact, deported after the court's order. we heard reports that there were people who were on planes, on tarmac contrary to court order who had to be pulled back through the desperate efforts of lawyers around the country at these airports. >> you've used the word chaos here, just a short time ago cecilia, sean spicer explained the impact of the immigration order and here's how he put it.
here it is. >> i know that in some cases there ll be a t of an inconvience -- >> is there any humiliation? >> there were 109 people that were slowed down over 329,000 foreign visitors that came in. we took the first step to ensure that a terrorist attack wouldn't continue in this country, what do we say to the family of a person who gets killed because we didn't take these steps? >> how do you respond to that? >> we've seen time and again coming out of the white house efforts to be deliberate untruths about what is going on here. president trump campaigned on a promise to ban muslims from the united states. the executive ord or friday took a major step tord that by banning the majority of seven muslim countries and what we saw now after the federal courts in two different cities in the united states issued nationwide injunctions barring removals and in one case detentions pursuant to trump's executive order.
we saw as you previously reported this morning that dh is that put out a statement that says number one, we will enforce the order and we can rescind visas that were validly issued by the government and two paragraphs they say woe will comply with court orders. no clear direction. which is it? will they comply with the court orders or not? even as we speak right now we are hearing reports from lawyers who are volunteering at the airports that there are still struggles to get people off the planes as cbp tries to send them back to their home countries. >> as we try to straighten all of this out, cecilia wang, i look forward to having you on the broadcast again. thank you very much. >> thank you, alex. the political leader in iran, a clear insult. we'll have a live report from tehran.
31 past the hour. i'm alex witt at world headquarters. here's what we're monitoring right now. donald trump's travel ban sparking reaction nationwide and around the globe, in fact. here in the u.s. more than a dozen protests scheduled this afternoon. one under way in texas as we gave you a look at dallas-ft. worth international airport. sarah dallof is i atlanta where travelers were detain last night. we know that the travelers have now been freed, but that is certainly not stopping the protesters from coming out again today. >> reporter: that is exactly correct, alex. the protests planned here later today with thousands indicating on social media that they will be attending. let's talk for a moment about those 11 travelers who were detained yesterday. they were questioned for hours before they were released. that group includes a grandmother in her 70s, a family of three who had been visiting
family in iran, they have a 10-year-old daughter, green card holders, legal residents here in georgia who were eventually released to return to their home just outside the metro area. >> i want to bring in attorney esther panich. esther, what i understand here is even though we have seen these 11 people released, we're in kind of a limbo for people who are arriving today. that's correct. we are aware of one person, at least one person that is coming in later this afternoon who may be subject to being detained. we are hearing stories that people are -- that border patrol agents are not necessarily abiding by the court's order which is obviously very troubling so this person is in limbo until that person either makes it through or we find out that he's been detained. >> and what will your role be here today? it's our understanding that legal representatives were not allowed to go back in with the people as they were being detained yesterday. >> i'm here as an observer, as a
witness to see what's going on so the world can know what's actually happening because i have the ability to be here as an attorney. that's why i went to law school so i can help in things like this. we are here to support the lawyers for people coming in, and tdo whatever we can inur power to help them. >> it's such a broad question, but it's on everybody's mind. where do we go from here? >> well, the court system will take its time. the judge granted a stay of the order. we will see if the government asks for an emergency appeal of that decision, otherwise it's looking like the end of february will be the first time the court will have an opportunity to rule on it. both sides will be allowed to call a briefing, state their arguments based on law and fact, and then the judge will ultimately rule. i don't know if there will be further hearings. i suspect there will be, but that's is up to the court. >> reporter: in the meantime,
you've seen a huge response both from the legal community and people coming here to demonstrate. are you surprised by this response? >> i -- it's incredible to see the response. i'm overwhelmed to see the response and i'm thrilled to see that america is a country from immigrants and that we haven't forgotten that, and that we're going to call out power that is incredibly overreaching which is what is happening now. my understanding is this law was put into effect, this executive order was put into effect not even having been run through the department of justice. so the government's own lawyers didn't look at this before putting it out. this has put the travel community -- the international travel community in a state of chaos and that's not helpful to anyone. there are unknowns about what will happen to flight crews who come? are they going to be allowed off the plane? there are so many questions and we have no answers yet, and does this violate a later law, does
the executive order violate a later law that congress passes that you cannot discriminate based on country of origin? we don't know, but they will fight. >> reporter: a lot of unanswered questions at this point. thank you so much, esther. we'll send it back to you, alex. we'll be live throughout the day following the protests. overseas to iran, one of these seven nations banning entry to the united states. nbc's ali arouzi is in iran with a good day to you. the government's response was pretty swift. what are officials saying? >> reporter: indeed, alex. the foreign ministry himself, the foreign minister himself strongly -- the ban, imposing a ban on muslims is a clear insult to the islamic world. tehran says it would take
reciprocal measures and ban americans from coming to iran in order to safeguard the rights of citizens until the u.s. removes this ban. they also said that the ban was a gift to the extremists, but in his latest tweet the foreign minister slightly back peddled saying that unlike the united states iran's decision is not retroactive and those with the valid i havesal be admitted. the implication being that if you have a valid visa you can come to iran, but no more will be granted afterwards. they're not going to honor visas after this. this morning the very powerful speaker of parliament weighed in saying the recent measures taken by the united states to revoke iranians from having visas showed an absurdity in the behavior and vision added that the move demonstrated the violent and racist nature of the united states government and concerns he said about terrorist attacks from iranians is like a joke. so a lot of animosity between the united states and iran after that nuclear deal had been sorted out, but this is also
having a ripple effect, alex. i just interviewed an iranian student who was at cuny. she was on a scholarship program there. she was flying back. she got turned back. she feels very, very discriminated against. so i think there's a lot more of this to come. back to you, alex. >> a lot of strong language and pretty blatant discussion. thank you very much, ali arouzi from tehran, iran. somewhat of a sticky situation in london today. new reaction just as the prime minister gets back with her meeting with donald trump.
allies. let's get right to msnbc's lucy cavanaugh. let's talk to you in britain ady elsewhere, what do you have? >> tremors is a gentle way of describing it. including theresa may's own party. theresa may is in an awkward position after her white house are white house visit perhaps trying not to alienate mr. trump. her spokesman issuing this muted statement saying that look, america's immigration policy is america's business, but, we do not agree with this kind of approach and it is not one that we will be taking. there's been a much harsher reaction from boris johnson who took to twitter to slam the travel ban as divisive, wrong to citiing mattite because of nationality. he said we will protect the rights and freedoms of uk nationals at home and abroad and a growing outcry of mr. trump's
visit in light of the travel ban. there's been a petition to block mr. trump's visit now having 460,000 signature, and that's more than double since i was on air. and taken up for debate in parliament. we heard from the olympic champion mo fara. he's bn knighted by the queen and a british citizen of somali orig origin, wrote on facebook it's deeply troubling that i will have to tell my children daddy may not be able to come home. this is not playing well abroad and certainly not with america's western allies. >> we've been watching this petition as well and with my product assistants in the studio, it's going up so quickly and thousands by the minute, it seems. with regard of what they're trying to do, preventing donald trump from making a state visit, he has been invited by theresa may and presumably has accepted
and he's supposed to address parliament and all of that would go awry if this petition becomes strong enough. >> and an invitation from the queen herself. this is a very awkward, diplomatic political situation and a lot of pressure domestic on theresa may and on the crown itself to address this with a more tough stance. remember, the uk is in a tricky position, because of the brexit deal and they need their allies and theresa may has a very difficult balancing act and she does not want to upset mr. trump and she needs that trade deal. >> trade. it's all about that. lucy cavanaugh in london for us. in his own words when a nationally recognized politician did for the president that helped create the immigration ban. my arthritis pain used to make my favorite things to do...
painful. but now with oder-free blue-emu maximum arthritis cream, i can enjoy life's big moments and life's little ones. blue-emu maximum arthritis cream. beat the pain and enjoy life. everyone talks about what happens when you turn sixty-five. but, really, it's what you do before that counts. see, medicare doesn't cover everything. only about eighty percent of part b medical costs. the rest is on you. consider an aarp medicare supplement insurance plan insured by unitedhealthcare insurance company. like all standardized medicare supplement insurance plans, it could really save you in out-of-pocket medical costs. so, call now and request this free decision guide. discover how an aarp medicare supplement plan could go long™ for you. do you want to choose your doctors? avoid networks? what about referrals? all plans like these let you visit any doctor or hospital that accepts medicare patients, with no networks and virtually no referrals needed. so, call now, request your free guide, and explore the range
religion, danger. the areas of the world that create danger for us come is a factual basis, not of a religious basis. perfectly legal, perfectly sensible and that's what the ban is based on. it's not based on religion. >> now that was trump adviser and former new york city mayor rudy giuliani weighing in last night on the president's new immigration order. let's bring in howard dean, former governor of vermont and msnbc contributor and republican strategist susan del percio. you heard rudy giuliani calling it a muslim ban although the president has not used that language and said no, it's not. >> you know, we're way beyond all this debate, alex. we're -- it took nixon five years to get us here and trump did it in a week. we're on the verge of a constitutional crisis. the customs and border patrol last i knew in dallas and jfk
can be served with a contempt of court order, where the government doesn't obey the courts and that's the end of law and american democracy. we are now faced with a situation we haven't been faced in since watergate. this is far more important an immigration and far more important than what rudy giuliani said. this is whether we live in a democratic society or not and i can't believe it only took us a week to get here, but that's where we are. >> you're putting this in pretty big context here. any of that which howard just said, susan, hyperbole? >> i do think it's extreme. i don't think itwe're going to e our democracy fall apart in the matter of days or weeks as that statement may have suggested, but there is concern about how we govern, and while donald trump certainly lived up to one of his campaign promises when it came to banning folks from different parts of the world
that could present a very clear danger to the united states, he wasn't -- he implemented it by simply an executive order without following through with the congress, athe house and th senate and that's very problematic. what i see is vice president mike pence having a difficult job of having to work with the white house and communicating with the congress because they need to know how these things are going to be implemented. these agencies need to know how this is going to happen. the confusion from customs inspectors to the courts to everyone, this should have been much more thought out and presented in a very clear-cut fashion. >> so then, howard, what is donald trump's next move here? what does he tell mike pence to tell congress and how do you think donald trump's going to react to all of the opposition right now? >> oh, he's going to dig in and that's the scary part of this. nixon was a lawyer and did understand in the end that the court voted 9-0 that he had to
turn over the tapes and thus he did thus saving the constitution and the democracy. trump shows no indication of doing that. we'll have to go after the individual customs and border patrol people who are violating the law, but they're probably violating the law because they're being ordered on high to do that. by no less than a general who is now the secretary of homeland security which i find incredibly disappointing. i thought the former commander of the marine corps would understand that we still have civilian control here, and i'm very deeply worrieded about that. i agree with susan we're not going to lose the democracy in the next 15 minutes and i've not seen this since 1974. >> i want to jump on one thing that governor dean said just before which was that donald trump will dig in. i agree he will dig in in the sense he'll never admit that he was wrong, but i do think that he is extremely sensitive to poll numbers and what people are saying and if everyone seems to be turning on him especially if you start hearing that within
the administration, he will start to change his way of communicating and saying what this is actually all about. >> all right, guys. i want to play what happened here just a short time ago and former defense secretary robert gates offered the latest executive order and the one that recognize the national security council and gives steve bannon a seat on it. here it is. >> addin people to the national security council never really bothers me. my biggest concern is there are actually, under the law, only two statutory advisers to the national security council and that's the director of central intelligence or the dni and the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff. i think pushing them out of the national security council meetings except when their specific issues are at stake is a big mistake. >> howard, what do you think of that? those are two people that he believes should be on it come what may and they're the two
people that were pushed off. >> there was a very amusing tweet today, that i re-tweeted and i think it's true. bannon and trump is the salesman. no one would think of taking him off of national security and some of this is flynn payback. flynn feels back because he was fired because he did a terrible job with the dia and never served in combat and very bright guy and not temperamentally suited to be director and some of that is probably flynn, but i think bannon to have him put on this which he knows nothing except his right-wing ideology, and i think bob gates is exactly right. i teach a foreign policy course and i teach bob gate because of his sense of ethic, and i'm not surprised that he said this. >> susan, your reaction to this. i agree with what the governor just said and what bob gates said. it is very dangerous to remove those two people from the council, especially at the point
of putting in an adviser who has no foreign policy background, and it is payback, i think, from general flynn as governor dean mentioned, without a doubt because he is upset with how he was treated and he's upset that he hasn't received as much attention with some of the other folks when it comes down to national security. but it is to me absolutely insane not to have the two people who are most aware of what's going on in the intelligence community to serve on the council. susan del percio and howard dean, thank you. coming up at the top of the hour, breaking news and new reaction from the travel ban and we'll hear from the administration and a top republican congressman who is openly criticizing the executive order. i can't wait for her to have that college experience that i had. the classes, the friends, the independence.