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welcome to this hour of msnbc, and i'm jonathan capehart. we have breaking news, the national democratic committee is electing the chair as we speak. and moments ago indiana mayor pete butte geeg as well as howard dean have announced they are dropping out of the spot. and whoever wins the spot is going to have a difficult job uniting the party, and getting more democrats elected to the office nationwide. with me, is jayne who is the pt president of the democratic party who voted today, and janelle smith, national correspondent for msnbc news, and my colleague at the washington post catherine rampel and republican strategist rich galen and thank you all for being here. let me start with you, jayne. have you cast your vote yet? >> yes. we just cast our votes all four
for indiana for congressman ellison and waiting for the paper ballots to be counted. >> can you tell us why keith ellison from the 5th congressional district? >> well, we are excited about him because he understands grass roots organizing, and funded not only candidates and campaigns, but big parties. and so this is not about anything other than being in the streets, and we are bridge and ready, and ellison can bridge us together to establish enough for the party. >> and is there really enough of the gap between the energy and the activism in the streets and what you will see there among the 440 members of the national democratic member who will be
vo voting on who is the next party will be? >> well, i ran the young democrats in the early 2000s and not this much difference of the grass roots of the party and the establishment of the party. there is a huge gulf between the grass roots and the party establishment. i don't believe that anybody else can take those pieces of wood and build a bridge. tom ter rez not only supports the ttp, and excel pipeline and the dakota access pipeline and those are main issues for voters. i don't know how he can represent the progressive wing of the party knowing that supports those issues. >> i interviewed former congressman el ellison, and tom perez for my post, and it seemed to me that both of them have the same vision for the party, and also how to rebuild the party. so while i understand the concern about secretary perez
and the support for various issues, i believe that the party overall would be in good hands just from what you were talking about what need s s to be done terms of the bridging the gap between the activist in the streets, and what is happening with the party. one for question for you in terms of the voting that is happen hing there. do you know what stage in the votinging we are at there in atlanta? yes. so we are the votes start for the chair and then down ballot. we are in the first round of voting for the chafrmt it is going to go through at least two more rounds, because they drop the lowest person each round. so two to the three more rounds of votes. and unless somebody gets the majority first round which is not that close. and so i know that you said that the ellison and perez were very similar, but we have been on the
streets and the ground here with ellison. >> and whoever is the next chair of the democratic national committee has to win the ma j majority of the votes cast and not a majority. >> that is right. so this can take multiple rounds of voting. with major pete of indiana, it couldlessen the rounds of voting, but still multiple rounds. i want to bring in rich galen who is the republican strategist here on the panel. >> i am feeling lonely. little lonely. >> that is why i am bringing you in here now, and from your perspective and where you sit, how are you viewing what jayne said, and where the democratic party is right now? >> well, look, i understand what jayne is saying, and she is right, because i have been on the other side of these as a republican where we have had our rearends kick ed from washingto,
d.c., to marietta, ohio, and all of the other towns. i have learned that over the years when you lose like that, typically what happens is that the ideology, id logs, and i don't want to use it as a projurytive seem to want to take the control of the party, and most people are not looking to get along with these guy, but somebody who is going to get out there to fight. it is going to be well after we are off of the air, because it is paper ballot. and the only thing worse is pirates ballots. >> and interim chair donna brazile announced that. >> they have not had a chair for seven months so they need to have a party to get cranked up, and going in a hurry. >> one of the reasons i suspect they are going to paper ballots, because electronically, things are jacked up.
>> well, in the original cyrilic. >> and at the same time, you want to make sure that the people don't have any suspicion that the process is rigged. with all of the mistrust built up from the general and the primary is and before that, you want to make sure that the people, and the bernie sanders' wing, if you want to characterize it like that, they are accommodated in that regard. also, people need to get over the feelings a little bit, and are regardless of the result, understand it is about winning elections. we are not electing a civil rights leaders, and democrats are trying to elect somebody good at winning election, and whether it is mr. ellison or mr. perez. >> and it is interesting that you say that the folks have to get over themselves, and what is interesting about jane klebb brought up in the response is why she is supporting congress
ellison over tom perez is that tom perez supper ports the ttp, and the dakota pipeline. you write about the economy, and those thing, and aren't those two issues dead. so with that the case with president trump in office, and if that is the case, why should any democrat hold it over their head? >> well, iing a grew -- i argue that protections were expanded for his oversight for undox yumed workers and people eligible for overtime, and he held under the leadership, the labor department held a lot more employers accountable when they were committing wage theft, and cheating the low-wage workers. so he has a lot of contributions that are cherished by the left wing of the democratic party. if you want to look at the
record, and to your point, the record may not matter for the job at hand, but if you want to look at the record, there is a lot to celebrate here. >> and one thing that you did not mention which is very near and dear to the progressive's hearts and he was president obama's first head of the justice department, and revive and rejuvenated after eight pours of george h.w. bush. jayne, i want to bring you back in here to respond to my question to catherine about the fact that under this administration, the trump administration, both tpp is a nonissue, and the dakota access pipeline is going to go forward and given that those things are off of the table, why still important to you that because of the two things, tom perez, you don't think that he should be the one to lead the party. >> well, keystone is on the block, and i have stopped it the
third time, but it is going to tell you where we stand on the big issues, about water, and clean energy and dirty energy, and property rights, and trade, and help the small family farmers in nebraska and indiana or the help of big ag, and that is going to tell you where we stand. tpp and dakota may be off of the table, but other issues will be coming up. tom perez is qualified to be the attorney general or the secretary of the state, but he does not have the chops and the kills is and the experience with the grass roots to lead the party as a dnc chair. >> which is more important for the dnc chair to do? more important for the next dnc chair to be a counter weight to president trump, a very vocal and active opposition person to president trump or the job of the nktext dnc chair to have a
unified message and slate of candidates of school board to the next prospective president to run that? >> the responsibility to party up is on me and everybody else to build it from the bottom up. so what has happened is that the money was not put there. representative ellison has said that he will fund the party at real dollar levels and not a couple of thousand here or there, and tom perez does not understand how the state party works, and ellison has raised over $2 million and helped the ka candidates down ballot. so i believe that ellison is going to wake up every morning to make sure that he is giving a one-two punch to trump, and while standing with us in the trees to build from the ground up. >> and if i can interrupt, because to characterize that he
does not know anything about the state funding seems ludicrous at this point in the conversation. andl second of all, we are talking about the party the leadership, and not just all of the people, but the people like bernie sanders standing in the treat and donald trump, and the most loyal base that there are and that is black women and they did not vote for bernie sanders in the majority at lao least. so how is keith ellison despite being black going to reach out to the most loyal constituency, and that is key. and you know, folks in milwaukee who got blocked by voter registration laws buck they also were blocked by apathy. how is keith ellison or tom p
perez going to reach those folks? >> let me bring you in here, rich, because the way that jayne is answering the questions and what jamel just said, the schism between the party and the establishment wing and the progressives so-called bernie sanders' wing of the party had not necessarily been sort of smoothed over, but gr what i am hearing, can that rebuild the party with that schism there? >> well, rarely is the chairman of one of the two major parties without the presidency, the spokesperson for the party. i have been thinking here that the last time it happened was haley barbour and people were looking to newt gingrich and bob dole back in those days. and people will look to nancy pe
low si and chuck schumer not necessarily to the chairman of the dnc. and jamel, i'm fascinated that the mtv guy is leaning towards the establishment. showing you how far the tv has gone. >> you have the wrong impression. it is not leaning towards the establishment, but the democratic party is larger than bernie sanders' wing of the party that has created so much quote, up quote energy a., and there is energy on the other side, too. >> and as somebody who is a close observer of this, ja meal or anybody, and is that more than bernie sanders versus the wing versus the establishment wing or bernie sanders' wing further divided between the bernie sanders' wing and the elizabeth warren wing? >> well, it is an excellent question, and there is certainly that i can do more report on that. >> you can have your show back in a moment, jonathan. >> i have no problem with really good questions, and that is a
good one. >> from what i have observed, yeah. there is a schism there between the people who want to completely disrupt the democratic party, and hey, we have it going there, and tear it up and start from the scratch, and there are people who want to go in there to fix what is wrong. and debbie wassermann schultz was not a good leader, and the idea that i would stand with the establishment or anybody else who stands with tom perez stands with the establishment is wrong. >> that is the flaw in this sort of the line of logic. that tom perez represents the little guy and just because he serves in a democratic administration, and very popular democratic administration, and continues to be pop you har administration, that it should disqua
disqualify him, because we need disruption. it seems a little bit absurd to me. >> an jayne, before we go, i want to give you the last word, but again, having interviewed both perez and ellison to me, both men have their eye on the prize of speaking to every american regardless where they are, and make sure that the party speaks for them. and as we are going out here, and whoever wins the chairmanship of the democratic a national committee, and say that congressman ellison does not win, will you be behind 100% tom perez if indeed he is the person who is the choice of the majority of the members of the democratic national committee? >> well shgs, i'm the chair of state party and proud democrat, and of course, whoever wins, i will be standing right next to them on the stage to say, congratulations. but i also will be saying if it is tom perez that we have some pieces of wood here from the
grass roots of the party, and it is his responsibility to build the bridge and not mine. and there is a lot of bridge that will be immediate to be bui built, but we will be there with the wood and put our feet, and hands and heart into rebuilding the party, and see what the votes come out, and we will know in the next hour or so. >> thank you very much, jayne. i know that no matter whether it is congressman keith ellison or former secretary of labor tom perez, whoever brings, they will be bringing the hammer to you the help you build that bridge. thank you. coming up, we will continue the follow the latest on the dnc chair race, and donald trump's assault on the media just got real. more on that next. then i realized managing was all i was doing. when i finally told my doctor, he said humira was for people like me who have tried other medications,... but still experience the symptoms of moderate to severe crohn's disease. in clinical studies, the majority of patients on humira
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the media didn't think that we would win. we are fighting the fake news. it is fake. phony, fake. a few days ago i called the fake news the enemy of the people, and they are. they are the enemy of the people. they make up sources. they are very dishonest people, and i said it will not represent the people and it never will represent the people and we are going to do something about it. >> and within hours of the president's warning, the white house made good on the promise by barring several major news outlets from the off camera briefing known as a gaggle. among those denied were outlets critical of the president including the new york times and cnn and politico and buzzfeed, and more conservative trump-friendly the breitbart news and washington time, and one america news network were among those allowed in. because the pool was present, every media format had access to
the information even if they were not there. and nbc was also at the gaggle and decided to share any news gathering material and ask about the exclusion. press secretary sean spicer said that this administration is among the most successful. so joining us with the panel is maya rowden, and let me start with you. in the montage that we showed of president trump, the two statements that he made that leapt out at me is that the press is the enemy of the people, and then he also said that the press doesn't represent the people. we are all journalists except for maybe rich -- >> i was hundreds of years ago. >> okay. so we have journalist cred, and so how does that sound for you
to describe all of us as being a quote enemy of the people? >> well, it is disturbing, and especially given the fact that the constitution makes clear that we have a right to a free press in the united states. i think that what is more disturbing is the rhetoric and the fact that the president specifically callsut news o organizations as fake news, an that he has called out specific reporters at some times. and this idea that the people representatives in the white house in terms of the news media that comes to cover and share n information is the enemy very stran strange. >> is and so, rich, are we making too much -- are we making too much of this making too much of the deal of this? reporters being denied access to
a gaggle? >> well, i think that there is a little bit of, you know, running around with hair on fire about what sean spicer did yesterday. about eliminating the access, but the bigger problem is frankly something that steve bannon said the day before the president spoke at cpac and bannon said that this is a war eve everyday. and he is absolutely serious about that. and this is an example of what bannon sees as the future of the war between the white house and the rest of the world apparently right now. >> and this is going to get to actually, too, twitter and folks at home with their heads expl e exploded when i asked that question. are we making too big of a deal of this, and it is a big deal, and for the very reason that rich said, between what the president said and the press being the enemy of the people, and steve bannon said at cpac saying this is war, and calling the press the opposition party,
that this is a bigle deal. >> well, it is and it isn't. and this is not a popular view, but he said that it is what separates leadership from democracies, and a, the public does not care, and b, not being invited to the press briefings does not inhibit our ability to do the job especially with this administration where at the press briefings, they are rife with lies and falsehoods that you don't learn that much. >> and plus, they are leaking like sieves anyway. >> and i fear that our indignation at the mistreatment crowds out discussions of things that are much more important like reince priebus po ttential interfering with a fbi inv investigation and i worry about those of us in the proings if being very proud of the profession and role in democracy
getting a little too fixated on they are being mean to us. >> and that is a good point. >> yes, u i agree with that comple completely. we can worry about how we are treated as members of the press and not enough about how the readers and the viewers and our consumers are being treated. >> okay. >> all right. we are going to be listening to ja moou greene as we go out to break. >> and that is why we need tom perez to be the next chair.
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former bernie sanders' campaign manager jeff weaver. alex, what is going won the vote right now, and where are we? >> well, we thought that it was going to be close, and it sure was. on the first round of balloting, tom perez fell one vote short of winning. he needed one more vote and that is all it would have taken, but he did not make it. and keith ellison is still in the running, and they claim that they can pull it out on the second round of balloting which is about to get underway, and first some speeches, and see how the second round of balloting is, and the field has winnowed and the choices have clarified and i am here as you mentioned, jeff weaver who is the campaign manage e for bernie sanders and after that first round, jeff, how are you feeling going into the second round? >> well, you always like to be up rather than down. and there are enough votes for him to come back to win this in the second round, and so i am hoping to get this done today. >> what is the path if you could
not get that close on the first round? how can you do it on the third? >> well, 12 votes of a candidate backed out which would get him to 1.5, and two abstention, and they vote, they could go with keith ellison and then some defections from perez who made a promise on the first round, but not the second. >> you have been in these kinds of rooms in the convention and the platform committee and what is going on right now, the ellison campaign doing to try to get the votes? >> well, look, they have long list that have every member on it, and what their first round commitments are and second round commitments are, and they are combing offit to see who they can target in the second round to bring them on board. >> and what are they telling them? and what are the conversations like? offer them something or convince them? >> well, it is a lot of convincing. and there are a lot of folks who might have made a commitment because they got a call from someone from the administration, and said, yeah, in the first round, but maybe not in the second round, and that happens a hot in these kinds of environments.
>> and we should say that one of the candidates who dropped out, pete buttigieg, and so some said that they had earned his endorsement, but fluid here, and that is a mistake. and so where do you think that the votes will come from? and if there is a lot of ellison supporters here in the back of the room, and if he loses, what will happen? >> a lot of disappointmentt out there on the street. and incumbent on tom perez to go out to build credibility with the people we have seen by the millions out on the streets taking on trump. keith ellison has a lot of support with them, and tom perez would have a lot of work to do the build up his capability with them. >> and is he capable of bringing in the bernie sanders' support or no trust? >> well, he has to build the trust over time, and the truth is that perez has been very gifted and he does not have a lot of experience in the
movement politics so he has to find the way, and people want the authentic messenger of the progressive image and he has to off that if he wants the support. >> that is the view from the floor here in atlanta, and back to new york. >> thank you, alex. i heard some cheer iing while y were speaking, and do you a sense of what was happening that had people cheering -- keith, keith, keith. but it looked like as you were talking about going into the second round of balloting, and judging by what jeff weaver had to say, the fomer campaign mana manager for brny sanders that if tom perez is the one who ends up becoming the chair of party that tom perez, and i think that you can -- i see you back on the screen. so jeff, direct ly here, the comments that you made to alex about the job tom perez would have to do if he becomes the chair of the party echoed what jane cleb, the chairman of the democratic party in nebraska
said which is that there is a lot of bridge building that has to be done. and so, i'm not getting the sense that you think that that is going to be an easy jobb if the next chair of the party is tom perez. >> okay. sorry are, a little bit of the technical difficulty here, but it is not going to be easy for tom perez to win the people back? >> yes, obviously, given the experience in 2016, there is a lot of distrust of the people out there in the world, and sort of the internal, you know, dnc organization. it is going to be taking some time, and a real effort on his part, and this is not tokenism, and the democratic party has to open up the doors and get the millions of people who want fundamental change in the country. >> will we hear from bernie sanders? >> well, he is out in kansas to try to raise some money for the democratic parties in the red states, and he believes that should be a big focus.
>> apologies for the technical theme, and where they have switched to paper balloting and slowed it down. >> thank you, alex and jeff. and we will continue to follow the dnc chair race and have a look at president trump's first 30 days. yes, just 30 days. cash back on all of my purchasing. and that unlimited 2% cash back from spark means thousands of dollars each year going back into my business... which adds fuel to myottom line. what's in your wallet? if you have moderate to severe plaque psoriasis isn't it time to let the real you shine through? introducing otezla, apremilast. otezla is not an injection, or a cream. it's a pill that treats plaque psoriasis differently. some people who took otezla saw 75% clearer skin after 4 months.
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welcome back to msnbc. i'm jonathan capehart and coming live from new york, donald trump has been president of the united states for 36 days. so how's he doing? >> this american carnage stops right here and stops right now. >> believe me, when you hear about the tough phone calls that i am having, don't worry about it. we will have a very, very strict ban. it may not be pretty for a little while. >> it is a military operation, because, what has been allowed
to come into the country -- >> and they sort of made it sound like i had a feud with the intelligence community. >> the leaks are absolutely real, but the news is fake. >> the media is the opposition party in many ways. >> god looked down and he said, we won't let it rain on your speech. >> and so the powers are without question. >> and my panel is with me, and jamel smith, and rich gaylon and catherine, 36 day, and the president has been active. >> stop me. >> and there has been a flurry of executive orders. but to what end? >> well, we have had the national security adviser resign. >> that is just last week. >> and this is maybe threaten ad
war with our ally australia, and okay, i'm exaggerating a little bit, but not all that much, and it is all evidence of a finely-tuned machine like a corvair. >> yes, a and to catherine's examples here, it is chaotic, and it is disruptive and it is busy and it is chaotic, and it is just seems like we are all in the scooby van with nobody in the driver's seat. >> lord, i'm tired. these 36 days are, you know, part of the main trump ethos which is chaos. the entire campaign was about chaos, the way he seemed to be running was chaotic, and it was designed to sew confusion amongst the public, and that is what the administration is doing. it is designed and the executive order are sloppily written, and what laws, and i don't know if
he has proposed laws at that point fwux the laws they talk about proposing are not thought through and all of this is meant to stoke this disorganization amongst the public, because in the disorganized america, authoritarians can rise. >> and rich, let me bring you in here, because i am wondering, is it possible to govern like this? is it possible to use chaos as a theory for governing? i want to show this poll from gallop that shows the first year of a president e's term mid february approval rating. our current president at 40%, and the previous w. bush had 62%, and bill clinton had 51%, and george hw bush had 63%. so how can you maintain all of this chaos at war with all of the branches of government, and
the press and 40% of the american people approve of the way that you are doing things. >> well, as jamil said, that is the modus operandi and to keep it muddled and confused. >> and so for the -- >> and let me get through it. going back to the chart. bill clinton at 51%, and i don't know if it was 34 days, but the early weeks and months of the clinton administration was rowdy, and we had travelgate, and some bartender looking through the fbi files, and we had his lawyer commit suicide and so these things are not always as easy as the incoming troops think that they are going to to be, but to your point, no, it can't, but it won't make a difference i don't think unless and until the republicans in the -- especially in the house start to hearing from their constituents saying, that is enough. and if they don't hear that, it is not enough. >> and so, maya, how likely that
any time soon republican members of the house and the senate will hear from their constituents that they don't like what the president is doing, because right now, it is not looking like anything that the president has done despite all of the d demonstration, and in cities around the country, because of the various executive orders that it has made any kind of dent into the support of the president from republican members on the hill h. >> that is exactly right. i think that it will take the constituents to make a difference, but as our reporting has shown, the president is pretty happy with the job that he has done so far, and the protesters are maybe taking to the streets, and at the same time people at home who wanted to see the president do exactly what he was going to do on the campaign trail, and to them these are promise s ths that he kept. >> and catherine n the little bit of the time that we have left, what do you think that it
is going to take to peel away the support from donald trump's base from the president trump? is it a lack of jobs? the repeal of obamacare or is it nothing? will they stick with him no matter what? >> well, trump said that he could shoot somebody on fifth avenue and they would still support him, right? and obama care f it were to be repealed which i am doubtful that it will happen,nd that would actually cause a huge rupture in the base given how many trump supporters are themselves beneficiaries of the law, and beyond that, any personal scandals or chaos in the white house, they don't care about it. they care about the kitchen table issues, and if they lose the health insurance, that is a big deal. >> and coming up, cross-examination pac in the waning moments and what a wild ride it was. that is up next. d krshc c
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and maya, and i want to talk about a rare public appearance steven bannon, the senior counselor of the united states. and let's take a look at it. >> are the first is national security and sovereignty, and the second line that i refer to is economic nationalism, and the third broadly, the line of work whi which is the deconstruction of the administrative state. and if you -- >> and now, that got a, as you heard, a lot of applause, but those three things that steve bannon talked about, that is his guiding, and that is the guiding philosophy, and i would say, to bring you in here as the lonely republican, on our panel. gi given what we were talking about on the way that president trump is governing, and given the three buckets that steve bannon laid out, is it possible to govern in those three buckets what he talked about? >> well, sure it s. it is going to make it more difficult if you think that you need to royal the
wa ters everyday. and you know, i was newt's press secretary and communications director in various guises in the last 15 or 20 years, and newt used to say, and this is not a exact quote, but close enough, the way that governments were run were based on the way they were designed in the 18th century, or 17th century for men with quill pens, and we still do it the same way. now, there is nothing wrong with saying that you want to deskon instruct the administrative state like are repeal obama care what you are going to be replacing it with, and this is the big challenge. >> and that is the thing, and for you, jamil and catherine and maya, that with the flurry of acti activity and all of the executive orders and all of the plans that will come out next week, and then next week never comes, whether it is the economic plan or the plant to repeal and replace obamacare or what have you, you have to do
something for real, tangible. >> and so there are two things to think about when we are thinking about what it means to deconstruct the administrative state, and repealing the laws or overhauling the tax code, there is a lot of division amongst the republican party about what that means, and that means that any action is less likely to materialize, and any action is less likely to materialize, and so there is a with way that he could deconstruct the administrative state which is to drive so much chaos that you would cause mass ek dus of the civil servants to get demoralized and leave. and maybe they are with the swanson-type folk, and the types of people chosen to lead the epa for example. >> pruitt. >> they get into the jobs and do very little, and because of the civil service protections, you can't fire them, and so that is a more creative way to -- >> you are scaring me,
catherine. >> and we are have been scared for the last several years that this is the part and parcel of the government to be -- i don't want to impugn rich, but as a way to make people not want to believe in the public work, and they make people believe that public works are somehow bad and whatever we have to do mach sure that we have enough money to do that. >> well, it is not that it is bad, but you have to pay for it. that is the issue, jamil, and it is not if you want to fix the roads, but who is go toing to pay for it or what are you going to give back. >> and that is it in all of the discussions of the replacing the affordable care act, and a number of things that the president is going to be talk about and building the wall, and sort of, what subtly deporting all of these people. >> well, it only matters when the other party is in power. >> and we have spent eight years of the republican party saying to the president of the united states, but what are the offsets? how do you pay for this and yet we are hearing none of that discussion now. >> and which is what rich is
saying about making sure that you can payer for the roads to be fixed and for the trains to be built or fixed or what have you. >> right. >> then how in the world are the republicans this silent? how? they are seeing a guy propose a wall that we don't need that is going to be costing 15 or up to $19 billion and there's no plan to pay for it, and no plan to fund it, and where is the opposition? >> and let me ask that last question to maya real fast, where is the opposition? how likely to see the republicans on capitol hill pushing back against the president and the plans that are really expensive? >> i think that as soon as the president's budget comes out, we will see a clear division or whatever comes at the result of the proposals that the president is putting forward in terms of paying for all of the things that he has said that he wants to accomplish. >> and well, we have -- >> this is part and parcel of
the tea party, guys. >> yes. and so here we are 36 days into the trump administration, a & more to go, and thank you, jamil, and cath rip, and maya and rich. that is our show for this hour. join me tomorrow for "a.m. joy" at 10:00 a.m. eastern. and coming up next, richard lui is going to have the latest of the votes at the dnc chair.
xx. a good saturday. i'm richard lui and in atlanta, we are watching the democrats coming together to pick the new captain, but can they right the ship? outside of atlanta, the annual palooza of cpac is wrappinging up, and straw poll shows who they are most enamored with in the next couple of hours. and back at the white house, the trump administration dismissing as incomplete a document from the homeland security that seems to