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tv   All In With Chris Hayes  MSNBC  March 1, 2017 5:00pm-6:01pm PST

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"all in" with chris hayes starts right now. tonight on "all in" -- >> a new national pride is sweeping across our nation. >> the agenda of the president's address "nationalism with an indoor voice." >> i have ordered the department of homeland security to create an office to serve american victims. >> plus -- >> they lost ryan. >> the commander-in-chief passes the buck. >> this was a mission that was started before i got here. >> my guest tonight,raq war veteran and u.s. senator tammy duckworth. >> he's the commander-in-chief, he needs to take responsibility for the raid. then, the latest attempt to quash the russian investigation. the complete lack of consensus among republicans on obamacare. and the real hbcu scandal that has nothing to do with couches. >> i certainly meant no disrespect. i didn't mean to have my feet on the couch. >> when "all in" stars right now.
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>> good evening from new york, i'm chris hayes, breaking news tonight, the associated press citing three administration officials that white house lawyers have instructed the president's aides to preserve materials that could be connected to russian interference in the 2016 election and other related investigations. much more on that story ahead but first, if, like the president of the united states, you are the kind of person that judges success solely by television ratings, then the president's address to a joint session of congress was a flop. it drew a significantly smaller audience than president obama's first address by about 9%. viewership notwithstanding, professional observers have showered last night's speech with praise for avoiding the president's usual bombast, offering what they said was an optimistic vision for america's future. but while there was no talk of american carnage last night, make no mistake, that was the same donald trump advancing the same agenda. oddly, the best assessment of the speech came from the white
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house itself. the "washington post's" robert costa reporting some sources in white house are frankly surprised at how pundits are warming to the speech, say trump has not changed, no big shift in policy coming. this from bloomberg's joshua green, "seen your white house official described trump's speech to me as nationalism with an indoor voice." that quote is revealing for numerous reasons, chief among them that indoor voice is a term associated with getting toddlers to behave. the president's rhetorical shift cannot disguise the substancive the core of the speech and this presidency to date. take for example the way it started with a long overdue acknowledgment of the attack on two indian men in kansas being investigated as a hate crime and the countless incidents of anti-semitic threats of vandalism and threats around the country. this is the first time the president addressing the shooting which took place a week ago. before that, the white house only gave vague statements glossing over the racial aspect of the attack in which the gunman reportedly yelled "get out of my country." "any loss of life is tragic."
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"the president condemns all acts of violence against the american people." earlier today before denouncing anti-semitic attacks in the speech, the president appeared to suggest in a meeting with state attorneys general that those attacks were some kind of false flag operations. "he said sometimes it's the reverse to make people or to make others look bad" according to the attorney general of pennsylvania. that's something the president has suggested before. >> some of the signs you'll see are not put up by the people that love or like donald trump, they're put up by the other side and you think it's like playing it straight. no. it won't be my people. it will be the people on the other side to anger people like you. >> for all of its conventional rhetoric, last night's speech presented the same vision of a country whose very existence is constantly threatened by the invasion of some other who looks different or practices a different religion. the president, guided by a militarized america-first
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philosophy determined to protect quote/unquote americans from that threat. the president's new national security adviser h.r. mcmaster reportedly advised the president last week to stop using the phrase "radical islamic terrorism" calling it unhelpful. the president went ahead and used it anyway warning against allowing a "beachhead of terrorism to form inside america." he proposed not just a wall on the southern border but a massive overhaul of the legal immigration system which would change which populations are allowed into the country and though "several studies over many years have concluded that immigrants are less likely to commit crimes than people born in the u.s." the president distorted the facts to portray undocumented immigrants as violent criminals. he highlighted a new office created by his executive order from his office to spread antiimmigrant propaganda. >> i have proposed an office called voice -- victims of
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immigration crime engagement. we are providing a voice to those who have been ignored by our media and silenced by special interests. >> i'm joined by joshua green, senior national correspondent for bloomberg "businessweek." josh, you've profiled both bannon and stephen miller and there was talk that this wasn't a bannon/miller speech but i think maybe rhetorically it wasn't but substantively it seemed to be. >> that's exactly right. if you look at what trump did in ways large and small, it was clear he was hewing to his economic nationalist positions. the very first thing he did was welcome citizens of america. not my fellow of america, citizens of america. i don't think that was an accident and if you went on to listen to what he said in the speech, everything from the props he had, the people whose relatives have been killed by undocumented immigrants and the policies he laid out which were very protectionist this was as the white house source told me, nationalism with an indoor
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voice, with the volume ratcheted down for a congressional audience instead of a stadium audience but fundamentally the same kinds of things trump has been saying all along. >> we get to the immigration part, it's really important for people to note -- i want to play this clip of bannon and miller talking about immigration. there's lots of ways you can think about immigration, a lot of times it's couched as unauthorized immigrants are breaking the law but i think bannon and miller believe something deeper about the threat that even legal immigration poses to the country. take a listen. >> isn't the beating heart of this problem right now the real beating heart of it of what we've got to get sorted here is not illegal immigration, as horrific as that is, and it's horrific. don't we have a problem, we've looked the other way on this legal immigration that overwhelmed the country. when you have 20% of the country is immigrants, is that not a massive problem? you were with jigs for many, many, many years, is that not
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the beating heart of this problem. >> well, yes, it's mind-boggling and it is someone that obviously i've talked about before at some length on your program. >> i mean, that is pretty clear, isn't it, josh? >> absolutely. the economic nationalist world view as envisioned by bannon and miller is not just about deport ing illegal immigrations, it's about lessening legal immigration, people they think are competing with marginalized u.s. workers. in fairness, there are some liberal economists that say yes, it would be good to tighten the labor market by keeping out some of these low-skilled workers who compete with americans and drive down wages, but i think miller and bannon take it much, much further and not just immigrants but even refugees which i talk about in my cover story with miller. he said one of the rationales for banning migrants from the seven countries they tried the ban the executive order was look, these refugees come in and
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they take benefits that are -- ought to rightfully belong to amican citizens. >> we could also note this. the data on sort of wage competition of the low end of wage scales is pretty muddy about what immigration does and the effect is less than i think a lot of people presume. but bannon also said you have a problem with silicon valley with too many asians, basically. i'm paraphrasing but that was the point, a nation is more than a nation -- more than an economy, it's got to be something other than that and there's too many asians running around silicon valley. >> that was certainly the way it came off. having talked to miller about in in some detail for the piece, i think a more polite way of putting it is that they have concerns not just about low-skilled immigrants, agricultural workers, that sort of thing but also on h1b visa reform and essentially want to do everything they can, as miller put it, to protect the jobs of american citizens in america. and that means in a lot of cases closing off the borders,
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rounding up and deporting people who don't belong here and are potential threats both economic threats, and this is a particular fixation of miller's, also physical threats. it was no accident that trump in his campaign and in a speech last night ahad there physicall present with him people whose children have been killed by undocumented immigrants. he wants to viv phi the human cost of immigration in hopes that will change and sway public opinion against it. >> very clearly what he wants to do. joshua green, thanks for your time, appreciate it. >> thank you. joining me now, msnbc contributor annan gear did das. okay, you were in a tussle with the white house about the shooting in olaf, kansas, trying to get a statement from them. what happened? >> i was writing a piece which ran yesterday in the "the atlantic" about those shootings and donald trump's silence, only broken late last night and more
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importantly about donald trump's enabling of the culture in this which that vie lerchs took place. so i called the white house at 6:47 a.m. yesterday saying that this piece was coming and i thought i'd give them a softball. they're not good at this stuff that involves non-white people so i said is there any aspect of the crime in kansas or the motivation behind it, any aspect, you can pick one, that the president disavows. you don't have to disavow the whole thing. any piece of it. >> talking about a murder, to be clear. >> he could have disavowed that part a or the part where the killer went up and asked for their visas, so the white house takes ten and a half hours of not respding. i confirmed they got my e-mail, still don't respond. the piece comes out, goes up
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online i get an e-mail saying the president cob dems all acts of violence against the american people. i looked at the statement and i thought wow, these are dark geniuses because i asked about a crime against two foreigners attacked for their foreignness and in a very carefully crafted statement back said he condemns violence against the american people. >> which categorically does not include the individuals who were murdered -- the individuals murdered and shot. >> and what's amazing to me -- >> but then he comes out and the first paragraph is a condemnation of that and the anti-semitic attacks and everyone says oh, there's this guy, atta boy. what was your reaction? >> the perfect journalist for the trump administration is the am knees yak. the person who has the eternal sunshine of the spotless mind,
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wakes up everyday and is willing to look at optics and look at how today's narrative is different than the narratives before and run with it. so today you heard a man last night who was able to read from a tell plomter full sentences. didn't seemingly attack people in a simple way. a and it was amazing to watch this army of am knees yaks forgetting russian meddling, forgetting misogyny, forgetting the white nationalistover tones and undertones of this race. >> but part of that -- i want to ask you about another thing so i'll put a pin in that so i don't forget but it seems important to distinguish between the substance of the speech and whether people are analyzing whether it's politically effective, the kinds of arguments that joshua green was advancing which i think is wrong, i think immigration is a benefit socially culturally politically to america. >> you'd be talking to a chair
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if my parents hadn't been all allowed to immigrate. >> but that argue, america for americans, america first, why can't we take care of our own people for once, there is a political potency that folks who oppose that agenda should not underestimate. >> yes and by the way i think personally there is a -- out there in the world a positive version of that. i don't think -- by the way, i agree steve bannon and i had a weird dialogue for several years until he decided to go the way he has. i agree that american sovereignty and the sovereignty of many countries has been eroded by global market forces and multilateral bodies and big companies but he's going back to the oldest darkestays of white nationalism dressed up a restoring sovereignty movement. this is not that. >> anand giridharads, always
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good to have you. author of "true america" which is a fantastic book. up next, the president cited his defense chief on the large amount of vital intelligence in the yemen raid that claimed the life of a navy seal. tonight, ten senior officials claim essentially the opposite. then, senator tammy duckworth with harsh words for our commander-in-chief in two minutes. whole day stops. awww. try this. for minor arthritis pain, only aleve is fda approved to work for up to 12 straight hours with just one pill. thank you. come on everybody. aleve. live whole. not part.
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future against our enemy. >> the most intensely emotional moment of last night's speech was president trump's honoring of corrine owens, the widow of navy seal ryan owens, killed during the raid in yemen the president authorized in january. not in the audience last night was owen's father who refused to meet with the president when ryan owens' body was returned to the united states in a flag-draped casket. bill owens questions the president's decision to authorize the mission telling the miami "herald" "why at this time did there have to be this stupid mission when it wasn't even barely a week into the administration? why? for two years prior there were no boots on the ground in yemen, everything was missiles and drones because there was not a target worth one american life. now all of a sudden we had to make this grand display?" tonight, contrary to the president's remarks to congress last night, 10 -- 10 -- senior officials tell nbc news that no actionable or vital intelligence has so far been gleaned from the yemen raid.
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trump's comments about owens overshadowed his remarks earlier in the day when he was asked about bill owens' criticism of a mission in which a senior military official told nbc news almost everything went wrong. >> this was a mission that was started before i got here. this was something that was, you know, just -- they wanted to do. and they came to see me, they explained what they wanted to do, the generals, who were very respected, my generals are the most respected that we've had in many decades, i believe. and they lost ryan. >> joining me now, democratic senator tammy duckworth of illinois, veteran of the iraq war. senator, before we get to your reaction to the speech last night, i wanted to get your reaction to what the president said earlier in the day and the way he characterized the decision making behind the raid that ended the life of a man from illinois, ryan owen. >> well, it seems like, chris, that he was trying to push off
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the responsibility of the raid to the commanders at the pentagon and, frankly, he's the commander in chief of our entire military, he needs to take responsibility for the raid and, frankly, whether or not that raid accomplished its mission, that navy seal is still a hero. >> last night, that moment in which he mentioned or sort of honored theidow o. mr. owen how did that moment strike you? obviously it was incredibly intense emotionally. she is obviously in the throes of tremendous grief. it's really been just a few weeks. what did you think about that moment? >> well, i think we should always honor our fallen. the chief was a tremendous hero. he had served on many missions before then, i think it was a moment of genuine emotion on her part and the part of the members in that room who were applauding her and his service and were honoring his service but at the end of the day i think the
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president needs to act like the commander in chief that he is and let's figure out what's happened, why it did not accomplish its mission and figure out what we can do better next time so there is no loss of life and equipment and that we can achieve the mission. >> previously the white house suggested those who ask the questions about the raid and what it accomplished were doing disservice to the memory of ryan owen. what do you say to that? >> that shows how it will it will white house knows and understands our military. everyone who wears a uniform of this great nation serves with honor. i do not agree with the war in iraq yet i was proud to serve. i didn't give up my legs and bleed for the war in iraq, i gave up my legs and bled for my country and the chief laid down his life and gave his last full measure of devotion to this great nation and that should be honored. that aside, what we can do to honor his sacrifice in addition to what we did last night is to make sure that we never let a
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mission go in the same manner again. we need to look and see what happened, the president seems to say he didn't authorize the mission but yet he did. we need to take a look and see what's going on there. >> let me ask you this. this is part of a posture towards counterterrorism, the use of targeted kill teams, sometimes through drones, sometimes through air power, sometimes through deployment of ground troops in raids such as this. that was vastly expanded during the obama administration. what do you think about that power to essentially strike anywhere in the world at any time in the hands of this president? >> well, you know, i -- i believe in the power and efficiency of our military, i am concerned that we have a commander-in-chief right now who does not act like a commander in chief, one who after authorizing a raid then denies he authorized the raid and tries to put the blame on someone else and when you question it then try to call you unpatriotic for questioning
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it. at the end of the day he needs to be the commander-in-chief. after all, there are many more men and women in harm's way right now and -- by the way, chris, this is the same man who just recently said our military doesn't fight to win and never wins. if that's the case, why is he keeping our young m and women in harm's way right now? bring them home. i couldn't disagree with him more so i'm concerned about a commander-in-chief who doesn't act like one. >> senator tammy duckworth, thank you very much, appreciate it. >> thank you. coming up, a flood of late-breaking news on the investigations of the trump campaign ties to russia as republicans quietly kill an effort to get more information into the trump russia investigation. we'll talk about all of it ahead. proof of less joint pain and clearer skin. this is my body of proof that i can take on psoriatic arthritis with humira. humira works by targeting and helping to block a specific source of inflammation that contributes to both joint and skin symptoms. it's proven to help relieve pain, stop further joint damage,
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what we've shown today is that the courts can work. they are a bulwark in our democracy and when president trump enacts laws or executive orders that are unconstitution al and illegal the courts are there to defend everyone's rights. so we want to thank you very, very much. [ cheers and applause ] [ crowd chanting "thank you." president trump's executive order temporarily banning refugees and residents of seven majority muslim countries from entering the united states ran into almost immediate legal trouble in large part because it was reportedly rushed through the interagency process and released before it was ready. the white house argued the speed was absolutely necessary because the country was in peril. after the ban was blocked the president went so far as to tweet "because the ban was lifted by a judge many very bad and dangerous people may be
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pouring into our country, a terrible decision. >> it's making sure we don't have regret that a month from now, two monthfrom now or a year from now we hadn'tone something to protect people so he acted as quick and decisively as possible to make sure we put the systems in place to protect our people. >> quick and decisive. it has been now more than three weeks since the travel ban was struck down by the courts and the white house has still not released the revised version of the ban it promised. it had been planning to roll it out today but it never came. the reported reason? the white house wanted to bask in the news coverage of president trump following last d speech. it was reported overnight "a senior administration official said they don't want to step on tonight's big win." there are two ways of viewing the travel ban, someone as a craven dem gojic document reverse engineered around a
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republicans were looking for a sign from the president over his plans for repealing and replacing obamacare. would he side with paul ryan and
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mitch mcconnell who want to replace insurance subsidies with tax credits or the likes of ted cruz and mike lee, the more conservative house freedom caucus, who would likely rebel against tax credits and who basically want to get rid of all of obamacare root and branch, including the medicaid expansion. when a draft version of the house bill leaked last week it contained the tax credit provision. about 40 minutes into last night's speech, the president seemed, it appeared, to pick a side. >> we should help americans purchase their own coverage through the use of tax credits and expanded health savings accounts but it must be the plan they want not the plan forced on them by our government. >> today republican leaders met behind closed doors amid the same concerns they had before last night's speech which is whether they'll have the votes to finally repeal obamacare. the washington examiner now reporting the plan to do so will come tomorrow but here's the catch, it will be under proverbial lock and key. it would be made available thursday morning to republicans in a basement room of an office
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building that adjoins the capitol "no one is getting a copy." joining me now, congressman michael burgess, republican from texas, chairman of the subcommittee on health and longest serving doctor in congress. congressman -- >> chris, good to see you again. >> good to see you, too. >> i haven't been on with you in a while. the last time i was on they clipped our banter and used it as promotional video. >> we can make more television magic again tonight. here's my question to you -- >> i thought i damaged your ratings. >> you did great. why would they keep this plan under such closely held lock and key? it's good toing p ee's going to point, you guys are going to vote on it, ma inthe american people should vote on it. >> not my decision and i found out about it this afternoon and my advice, should anyone wish to take it, is that people need to have access to this document and if there are problems let's talk through them. it's been a long time in the
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works, most of the pieces that are in there people have seen in one form or another in the past but it does need to be an open process. >> so you think it's a mistake to keep it under lock and key? >> well, i do think the leaking of an archive draft last week was unfortunate. i don't think it helped anything to be perfectly honest with you but at the same time i don't think you prevent that with the cloak-and-dagger stuff. i was in a different meeting with the republican study committee at that time. had anyone asked my advice -- but let's show our work. it's time. put your pencils down and turn your paper in. >> that is -- you could not have said it better. speaking of which where are we on medicaid expansion? i'm confused. >> well, the broader bill clearly contains some medicaid entitlement reform, very difficult to get to that portion in the discussion if you don't
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deal with the issue of expansion states versus non-expansion states and there are -- i'm going to speak senate language for a moment because this is being done under reconciliation which only requires 51 senate votes in favor but still even with the expansion versus non-expansion states, if they are firmly opposed to each other you're not going to get to that magic 51 number. if you have 19 senators in expansion states then 19 states that didn't expand. so there's a -- there's obviously -- there's going to have to be -- the needle is going to have to be threaded. i want to get to broader entitlement reform so it's important we do bridge this gap and there are proposals that are being discussed to get us to that point. i can't say that anything is final but there has been positive movement. >> i'm confused on this point so i want to make sure i'm understand where you're coming
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from. what i'm hearing from you is there is an irreconcilable political problem which is you won't get the votes you need in the senate if you take away medicaid that states that already have it. >> it's not irreconcilable but it requires skill to get that done and i can't say to you that we're there but there are certainly -- there have been discussions that would lead me to think it's possible to get there. the point is, for someone who believes very strongly in entitlement reform, as i do, i don't get to have that discussion if i don't get through this problem first. >> so let me ask you this, because i think that relates to something the vice president said today, mike pence. no one is going to fall through the crack which is i think is a powerful and important principle. there are people out there who have children born in a nicu, people on the medicaid expansion. people who are -- >> can i stop you there for a second? >> yes. >> children, of course, blind and disabled, frail, elderly, those folks are on the legacy
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medicaid programs if you will, those are not expansion populations. they're never at risk. never at risk. >> i meant that in terms of lifetime caps and preexisting conditions which are covered under the non-medicaid part but even for part of the medicaid, people in the expanded pool, there are people watching this right now saying is my health insurance going to be taken away? you're saying we're going to thread the needle and the vice president says no one will fall through the cracks. does that mean if you have insurance right now through the medicaid expansion you, michael burgess, and your republican colleagues will not take it away? >> the ability to put new people on one of the expansion programs could perhaps be limited. most states do require a reenrollment episode to occur mostly on a yearly basis. it is a possibility that you could limit future enrollment, not take anything away from anyone who has it right now. in the expansion popationnly but in that expansion
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popution -- >> people could lose their care. >> people who don't reenroll, who drop off for whatever reason, maybe they get employer sponsored health insurance and no longer need medicaid, those people would not come back on the expanded population. there are things you can do in a non-expansion state such as perhaps supplemental disproportionate share funding that would be available to safety net hospitals. >> so i'm hearing from you, though, admirably honest, that you cannot make that guarantee that because of reenrollment every year there are people in the current population in the expansion states in medicaid who may not have the same coverage next year. >> it would be their choice. if they stay on the program then they would not be dropped. so that comports with vice president pence's observation and certainly that would be my desire as well. >> we're going to keep our eyes on that because that's an important principle. congressman michael burgess, thank you for taking time. >> thanks, chris. >> joining me now, steve beshear of kentucky who gave the rebuttal speech who expanded
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medicaid in his state and set up an aca exchange that has been hailed for its effectiveness. i want you to respond. the senator seems to say the current population in expansion states will fine but he's saying the needle needs to be threaded. what does that mean? >> i tell you what it really means, chris, it means they're going to not people out of this program. they don't want to say it. they're going to spout many roadblocks in the way of people reupping every year and they're going to put so many different requirements on it that this population is a low income population. they don't understand a lot about insurance to start with and some of them are working two jobs a day, they don't have time to go down and stand in line all day long to be told oh, you have to come back tomorrow. you watch, if they go down this road you're going to have millions of people thrown out of this program. i mean, these folks amaze me. their ideology, their rigid ideology and all of their policy
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are mak them forget about what we're talking about. that's human beings. that's lives. these are people, some of them are going to die if their coverage is taken away from them. doctors tell you this. it's a very real situation. this is life and death for millions of americans and all they want to do is play word games. >> so this is an important principle. i want folks to track this. right now they have a political problem. there are people with coverage that are going to be upset if you take it away and they're going to have hell to pay politically if they take it away but they want to take people's coverage away because that's their vision. you're saying they're not going to say they're going to take people's coverage away but they'll put in the a set of procedures and obstacles that will result in fewer people being covered and say that's how the cookie crumbles? >> sure. and then this whole idea of block granting to the states, chris, what they're going to do is they're going to send less money than the program currently
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has down to the governors so the governors, who have to have a balanced budget, will have to cut coverage, they'll have to cut people out of the program, they'll have to cut benefits out of the program and when the people come to the governor and say "why did you do this to me?" the governor is going to say "look, i had no choice because the federal government didn't send me enough money." when those people go to the federal government and guys like the congressman, they're going to say "oh, now, wait a minute, we sent the money down to the governor, it was his decision how to decide who it's going to be." so it's the pontius pilate routine. they're going to wash their hands of this group and try to walk into the sun set and let everybody blame each other. the only people that lose here are americans. i mean, everyday folks who now have coverage, they like it, there may be problems with it, it may need to be fixed but by golly they don't want it taken away from them and i think they'll play hell if they try to. >> steve beshear, former governorf kentucky gave the response last night.
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thanks for joining us, appreciate it. >> thank you. still ahead, new reporting that just weeks before the election -- listen to this -- the fbi reached a deal with the author of the infamous trump dossier to have him continue his research into possible ties between the campaign and russian officials as well as other late-breaking news on things are story coming up. plus, tonight, thing 1 thing 2 starts after this break. sir! there's been a breach. we need your password so we can lock down the system. my password? yes, sir, we need your password. the password that i use? yes, sir, your password. there's been another breach! sir! right. okay. i-h-a... ...t-e-m-y-j-o-b-1.
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but with my back pain i couldn't sleep or get up in time. then i found aleve pm. the only one to combine a sleep aid plus the 12 hour pain relieving strength of aleve. and now. i'm back! aleve pm for a better am. thing 1 tonight, it was meant to be a triumph of outreach for the new administration, a celebration of historically black colleges and universities and an executive order supporting them. but instead, like so many other endeavors from the white house, the rollout was botched. first, whatever actually happened during president trump's meeting with leaders o hbcus in the oval office monday was overshadowed by this photo of white house counselor kellyanne conway kneeling on a couch, high heels tucked behind her. conway defended her position saying she was just taking a photo and meant no disrespect.
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>> we had the largest gathering of men and women to date in the oval office for a picture so i was being asked to take a picture a crowded room with the press behind us and i was asked to take a certain angle and was doing exactly that. i certainly meant no disrespect. i didn't mean to have my feet on the couch. >> couchgate doesn't matter, really. something far more disrespectful to the legacy and history of hbcus also happened this week thanks to the new secretary of education. that's thing 2 in 60 seconds. ee. what do you mean? i just got this baby to get around the plant floor. right, but now ge technology monitors every machine. yeah, it brings massive amounts of information right to you. so you don't need that. well, it makes me look young and uh..."with it." time to move on. oh i'll move on... right into the future. ...backwards. you're going backwards. the future's all around us! not just on your little tablet, my friend.
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and on monday after meeting with presidents and chancellors of hbcus at the white house, she released a statement that read in part "historically black colleges and universities started from the fact there were too many students in america who did not have equal access to education. they saw the system wasn't working, that there was an absence of opportunity so they took it upon themselves to provide the solution. hbcus are real pioneers when it comes to school choice." choice. after it was pointed out by numerous gobsmacked lawmakers and just citizens who've read a history book that hbcus were actually created because there was no other choice under jim crow betsy devos started to backtrack telling hbcus that "your history was born not out of mere choice but out of necessity in the face of racism and the aftermath of civil war." and tweeted out "providing an alternative option to students denied the right to attend a
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quality school is the legacy of hbcu. but your history was born not out of mere choice but out of necessity and the aftermath of the civil war." not clear that the people who run hbcus need to be told their own history though i think the secretary of education could probably use a bit of a brushup on the topic. for lower back pain sufferers,
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breaking news in the trump/russia front tonight. white house staff have been instructed by white house that could b connected to als russian interference in the election according to the associated press. the three administration officials who confirmed that white house staffers were instructed to comply did so on the condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to publicly disclose the memo from white house counsel don mcgann. this as it was reported that the obama administration rushed information across agencies to preserve the intelligence.
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today devin nunes agreed with ranking member congressman adam schiff to include possible links between russia and trump campaign associates as part of the scope of that intelligence committee's investigation. on the house judiciary committee, republicans took advantage of the hoopla to very quietly on a party line vote kill a resolution of inquiry which had been proposed by congressman jerry nadler. that resolution of inquiry is a tool that can be used by the minority party when the majority is stonewalling. this particular resolution asked the justice department to provide any documents related to any criminal or counterintelligence investigation targeting president donald j. trump, michael flynn, paul manafort, roger stone. in other words, anything related to the interference in the election and the trump campaign's possible ties to russia. it asked for documents relating to trump's potential conflicts of interest around the world. the resolution of inquiry was voted down by the majority on a day republicans knew it would
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get little oxygen. there are still active investigations into what russia did and who had contact with them in congress and the fbi. a former fbi double agent explains how those investigations should work next. me to reach my goals. 'e so i liked when my doctor told me i may reach my blood sugar and a1c goals by activating what's within me with once-weekly trulicity. trulicity is not insulin. it helps activate my body to do what it's supposed to do
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starts with turkey covered in a rich flavorful gravy,e and a crust made from scratch. because she knows that when it's cold outside... it's good food and good company that keep you warm inside. marie callender's. it's time to savor. of all the items fuelling the story about russian interference in the election, perhaps the most explosive was the dossier prepared by former british intelligence agent christopher steele alleging, among other things, collusion between trump campaign associates and russia in the dnc cyber attacks as well as specific claims of russia
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holding compromising material about the president. so it is stunning that the fbi had once planned to pay for steele to continue his work, according to people familiar with the arranment speaking to winnipesaukee. the agreement to compensate former mi 6-agent christopher steele came as agencies came to a consensus that russians had s interfered in the election. the agreement fell apart once the dossier became public. if the fbi was interested that interest would lend credibility to steele's efforts. according to the "post," steele was familiar to the fbi because the bureau had previously hired him in unremitted inquiry. joining me now, an fbi double agent author of "how to catch a russian spy, the true story of an american civilian turned double agent." navid, as parts of this story surface in little bits, it's evaluating them in context. how strange would it be for the
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fbi to pay for third party intelligence like this? >> there's these little drips and drabs coming in. chris, counterintelligence operations and there's counterintelligence investigations and they are two separate entities here. so it's important to understand exactly where they were looking at this. was it for the operational information intelligence or to build a case? >> so counterintelligence operations, which is something you worked on, is not investigative, it's essentially a way of trying to attempt to disrupt the intelligence activities of an adversary? >> that is absolutely correct. and it's important when it comes to russia's -- look, there's little doubt that russia through wikileaks, through stealing data, that there's very little doubt they were involved in trying to disrupt our elections. i don't think you're going to find too many people that disagree with that. from a counterintelligence operations standpoint, i have to believe the intelligence
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community knows who the sort of des of that network are and i would like to believe that the -- those components, the russians are probably not going to use them again. i would say they're probably burned. but as you said, chris, the goal of exposing them is not necessarily to build a case. you're not necessarily going to put this in the light of day in a courtroom so it's a terribly different silo. >> and that seems to be part of the problem here, right? because at some level there are these twin imperatives that lead to -- i mean, the story about the "new york times" is fascinating to me, that obama folks were basically making sure this is strewn across a bunch of different agencies so no one can get rid of it. there's an imperative for public transpurple heartsy, i as a citizen want to know the truth and the truth of the exculpatory of the trump people because it seems wildly unfair for allegations to hang around them if they're not true and the imperative for secrecy for the people operationally doing this kind of stuff. >> that's exactly right. i can tell you, the
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counterintelligence operational world, the investigative world, in many cases you can have a division chief for these two separate communities and they don't talk to each other and they do so in part because, look, you can't necessarily mix the two worlds but there's also a little ego, cultural ego that exists. at the end of the day, the american people need to know at the core of this that our elections, our most secret part of democracy, are, in fact, safe. to that end we need to know what russia did, how they did it. the other question of was there collusion between the trump trump and russians? certainly a question that needs to be answered. this stove piping and siloing of the data doesn't do the american public any good. we do need to have some answers here. >> do you imagine that those answers -- there would be a way too declassify those things that need to be known or get a public record from either the intelligence committees which practice largely in secret or
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some sort of special inquiry that could achieve that goal of transparency but not essentially compromise the kind of secrecy that you need to maintain? >> yes, i do. i think the question of russia's involvement in terms of -- with wikileaks and stealing data and trying to use propaganda, information warfare, in terms of affecting our election, that -- there's sources and methods that probably we want to keep close to our vest but the other part, the question of did the trump -- were there people that sat down with russian intelligence officers and colluded to turn over the election? that's a question that can be answered, that doesn't have to release sources and methods. it's binary, we talked about did flynn offer to lift sanctions? this is a binary question. it's either yes or no. that is something that we can -- chris, i'll be honest. i worked with the russians, i find it hard to believe a russian intelligence officer knowin their trade craft would ever sit down withnyone and say russia is going to deliver you the election.
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that sort of gotcha moment, i don't believe there's going to be a conversation like that that happened. nonetheless these are questions that can be answered. that. >> naveed jamali, thank you for your time. up next, an msnbc special report, the trump putin power play hosted by brian williams and chris matthews. a two-hour special and it starts right now. >> wouldn't it be great if we actually did get along great with russia? i think i'd get along very well with vladimir putin. we were both on "60 minutes," we were stable mates, we did very well that night. if he says great things about me, i'm going to say great things about him. russia, if you're listening, i hope you're able to find the 30,000 e-mails that are missing. wikileaks. i love wikileaks. she doesn't know if it's the russians doing the hacking. maybe there is no hacking. it could be somebody sitting on their bed that weighs 400


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