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tv   MSNBC Live With Kate Snow  MSNBC  March 6, 2017 12:00pm-1:01pm PST

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to reporters off camera about president trump's wiretapping claims. a setback for transgender advocate rights. the supreme court says it will not hear the case of a transgender high school student fighting to use the bathroom of his choice. an exclusive interview with that student, gavin grimm, coming up. before we get to the latest surrounding the revised immigration order, there's a lot to talk about on that, but let's first get you caught up on the nuts and bolts. what is so different this time around with the new executive order? for starters, iraq is no longer on the list. the secretary of state calling iraq an important ally. there will be a temporary ban on travel from six countries instead of the original seven. syrian refugees are no longer specifically banned. the new order removed language that had given special treatment for religious minorities. anyone with a visa as of january 27th or a green card can now enter the u.s. it also instructs the department of homeland security to release information on the threat posed
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by immigrants every 180 days. finally, none of this takes effect until march 16th, next thursday. that means it's giving appropriate time, they say, to agencies and airports and airlines to get ready for this big change. we've got all of our correspondents covering this, ready to go. my colleague, chris jansing, who's athe white house for us this afternoon, nbc news political analyst robert costa, national political reporter for "the washington post," and justice correspondent pete williams in our washington bureau, and chief legal correspondent ari melber is with us as well. let's start off with chris jansing at the white house. let's start with the justification behind this new executive order. why do they argue the country needs this? >> well, look, first of all, they said there was nothing wrong with the original one. they stand by the legality of it. the argument we just heard from sean spicer in the briefing, the argument was they were afraid it would be held up in court for potentially more than a year or
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mont more. they didn't think they could risk the security of the american people. that's been the argument all along, they needed to keep dangerous people out of the country. having said that, they don't have really any sweeping changes, but changes that democrats and immigration officials say are nothing more than cosmetic. so, they haven't quieted the storm. so different, too, in the way they approached it. there was that big fanfare at the pentagon when the president first did the immigration executive order. now, quietly, the only thing we saw -- no cameras allowed in, no press allowed in. we saw a picture that was tweeted by sean spicer of him signing it. the white house officially saying the reason for this change is because he wanted to give credit that this was a group effort, that everyone had worked on it and there was this briefing with the heads of justice and state and homeland security over at the homeland security department today. but in the meantime, still a lot
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of questions about why we didn't hear from or see the president. no opportunity to ask questions on camera of any white house officials today. of course, lot of people questioning whether, in fact, that was less happening with the executive order and more about the big story of the day, the president's accusations that the obama white house wiretapped trump tower and they weren't ready to answer those questions. >> i want to get to that in just a couple minutes. let's stick to the executive order for a couple more minutes. ari melber, does this put them on more solid legal ground the way they've restructured and rewritten all the bullet points i was showing everyone? is it easier for them to defend this in court? >> it probably is easier. can you think of the previous ban which was a bit of a mess as having several points of attack. and the way that they have narrowed and clarified aspects of this similar policy, which is still to restrict immigration in various ways, probably has fewer
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opening lines of attack. they addressed the green card issue. they have explained themselves a little better on refugees and not singled out syria. and they have tried to go further to deal with what was -- is the remaining line of attack, which is to clarify in no way they say they meant to discriminate on the basis of religion and there's no religious anamous then or now. that gives them some defenses, although we except some legal challeng challenges, of course. >> the ban doesn't affect people who had a visa as of late january, doesn't affect people who have green cards. what happens next week on march 16 lt? >> the new order goes into effect. the old order has been rescinded. the court order will evaporate. i'm looking at the attorney general from washington state, bob ferguson. he filed the lawsuit that got the old order put on hold. he says president trump makes
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one thing perfectly clear. his original travel ban was indefensible legally, constitutionally, morally. he says he's carefully reviewing the new order to determine its impact on washington state and the state's next legal steps and he hopes to have further comment today. picking up on what you were talking about with ari, the states are in a different position because some of the claims they made will go away, some of the harm they claim to washington state residents will go away, but not all of them necessarily. we'll have to see if they'll renew their claim. the justice department hasn't yet asked the ninth circuit court of appeals to throw the other case out. it's still there. i assume it's going to go away, unless washington state tries to breathe new life into its court order by saying the court should continue to try to put this on hold. but we have ten days here now where nothing will happen until the new order goes into effect on march 16th. and unless some state gets a
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court to block it, it's going to go into effect. >> robert costa, one of the arguments initially from the white house is they needed to rush this in. they needed to get this done quickly because the white house said there was a threat out there. even the president at one point tweeted and said, if we were to announce when we're doing it and then wait a week and give -- you know, give a week's time, that would let, in his words, bad dudes come into the country. have those concerns evaporated, because we now have ten days? >> you're correct. what i've reported is the white house insiders and officials are meeting the reality of governing, that it takes time to get these executive orders right. you have to work through the judicial system. and that they did have this rapid pace they wanted at the start o president trump's term, but they're realizing these things take a lot of legal time and thinking to get it right. >> chris, i want to change subjects now, if we can. the new executive order, obviously, taking some of the attention away from what we talked about all weekend long,
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which were the tweets from president trump starting on saturday morning. the president tweeting his predecessor, barack obama, tapped his phones, quote, during the very sacred election process. he compared it to nixon and watergate. this morning white house officials seem to give various explanations about where the president was getting that information, why he sent that tweet out. and i know sean spicer just briefed. i don't know if you've even had time to catch up on that. but what is the white house saying now? have they explained where this is coming from? >> that's the fascinating part. even though there there are nuances and differences from people who have spoken about this inside the white house, one factor remains the same, none of them has any proof to back up the claims made by the president. i did have a chance to listen to sean spicer briefing. the headline out of there is clear. he would not confirm or point to any evidence that shows that president obama wiretapped donald trump or somehow wiretapped trump tower.
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he would only say that the tweet speaks for itself. of course, that tweet, exactly what the president had to say, but also questioning the integrity of former president barack obama, who, of course, has unequivocally denied any of this happening. the real problem for this white house is that a series of officials, both people who worked inside the obama white house, people now in a position to know, no one hasny indication that this has come from anywhere but first conservative radio picked up by breitbart, of course, formerly headed by steve bannon, close senior adviser to the president, and that was the base for this tweet. as for now, what the official line from the white house is, maybe he's privy to some intelligence that we don't know about. and the president would like congress to look into this as well as look into leaks from the -- what he believes are people within the intelligence community, kate. >> if i could just drill down on that tweet for another minute here.
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the president actually called his predecessor, quote, sick, which is a lot different than what he's said in the past. this is a hat tip to aaron blake and the fix at "the washington post." to look at the evolving relationship between donald trump and barack obama. here's a little replay. december 2006, donald trump made some of his first public comments about president obama in an interview with maureen dowd. he offered some criticism but also said he has some wonderful qualities. then after obama announces his campaign in march 2007, trump calls him a star and says he's done an amazing job but questions his experience. in february of 2008 obama made some of his first public comments about donald trump, citing trump's bankruptcies as something only rich people can do. in september 2008 trump endorsed john mccain over obama. and then after the election in january 2009, trump told fox news that he really believed that obama will be a great president. the following month, trump criticized president obama saying he's spending too much
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time on stimulus and health care. fast forward to march 2011 and that's when trump brought the birther movement into the mainstream. he told "the view" that he wanted president obama to show his birth certificate. i think you all know how that played out. then november 2015 during the republican primary, donald trump called president obama a threat to our country. on november 6th, right before the election, president obama had this to say. >> in the last two days, they had so little confidence in his self-control, they said, we're going to take away your twitter. now, if somebody can't handle a twitter account, they can't handle the nuclear codes. >> and that brings us to this meeting between then-president-elect trump and president obama. we all remember, it november 10th, at the white house.
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>> we now are going to want to do everything we can to help you succeed because if you succeed, then the country succeeds. >> i very much look forward to dealing with the president in the future, including counsel. he explained some of the difficulties, some of the high-flying assets and some of the really great things that have been achieved. so, mr. president, it was a great honor being with you. i look forward to being with you many, many more times in the future. >> super nice there. on december 28th trump tweeted that obama is undermining his transition effort. later on that same day, he seemed to back off saying they were getting along very well. on february 27th, in a fox news interview, president trump accused president obama of stirring up protests against him. finally, on saturday, president trump accused president obama of wiretapping at trump tower without offering any evidence of that. i want to go back to our panel
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now and talk more about this. robert, you wrote about the president being steaming and raging mad this weekend. try to give us some context. wh mad him angry and is that what prompted him to call the former president ck? >> yes. my reporting tells me that over friday and saturday there was a series of articles from breitbart, the conservative website, as chris said, once run by steve bannon. one of these articles included commentary about radio host that talked about, quote, a silent coup against president trump by former obama administration officials. this is the kind of material that's being read by the president of the united states. he's digesting this information. and there's a consensus, without evidence, that there's some kind of effort afoot within the intelligence community against the white house. as i called around the white house this weekend, i found this point of view was pervasive and several of the conversations i had with my sources that they
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truly believe, without any evidence, more suggestions, that there's some kind of effort afoot and they used this explanation when asked about all these leaks and what they think is a white house under siege. >> pete, you're still with us. you cover the justice department. over the weekend yesterday we learned that the fbi director had asked the department of justice to basically come out and counter what trump tweeted on saturday. what do we know now on a monday afternoon? >> i don't think the justice department will be saying anything. they continue to insist they're not going to comment. several government officials we talked to over the weekend said they did not believe what the president tweeted about on saturday was correct, and we're not -- as far as i know, we're not going to hear anything on the record from the justice department. >> ari, let me ask you about just the brass tacks of who can call for a wiretap. who can tap the phones of someone else? a president can't do that, correct? >> traditionally this goes
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through a court process. if it's an american process for a traditional criminal investigation, you go to a judge, it's prosecutors doing that, the president has no involvement. there's the fisa court, the other thing that's been talked about a lot, secret surveillance cot set up in the '70s to create more oversight and independence. that's for espionage intelligence-gathering or a narrow set of potential crimes is, again, done in secret to a court. there's no reason for a president to ever be involved. that would potentially be unusual or scandalous. and the president's -- former president obama spokesperson saying never done that with anyone, trump or not trump. james clapper telling chuck todd, dismissing there was any warrant. i referred to the fisa warrant. that still leaves, to be clear, the possibility of some other type of lawful surveillance. take what we do know. the example of some sort of
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conversations between former national security adviser flynn and russian officials coming to light because, most likely, there was some sort of record of it. that can happen. it can happen lawfully. the difference here, again, a lot of things are unusual, whether that gets normalized or accustomed to it or not, it's absolutely extraordinary as a legal matter and historical matter to have a current president accusing his predecessor of high crimes, watergate-level political crimes without any evidence. that's what we're reacting to. so, it's extraordinary. >> also unusual, chris jansing, for the executive branch to ask for a congressional investigation, right, of something that presumably the executive could find out by picking up the phone and asking someone? >> reporter: not only that, but now we have, i think, if my count is right, sarah sanders, kellyanne conway and reince priebus all suggesting this congressional investigation. what they're asking congress to
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investigate is what the president has said is true, whether or not it is true. so, especially, in many ways, they're asking congress to investigate statements made by the president, which he said clearly in multiple tweets he believes to be true. and we do know that there are a lot of people and, you know, picking up on what robert and others have said, that there is a feeling that a lot of people who served the obama administration are out to get this administration, ignoring the fact, the argument is, the fact is many of them are career people. they've served multiple republican and democratic administrations, and consider themselves to be highly professional and apolitical. so, that's a situation we're in right now, calling for a congressional investigation by people within this white house whether or not what the president said is true really is true. >> pete williams, chris jansing, robert costa, ari melber, thank
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you to all of you. ari, stay with us. up next, a major setback for advocates of transgender rights as the supreme court announces it will not hear the appeal of transgender student garvin grim, who's suing his school district over bathroom access. gavin will join me in his first tv appearance since the court ruling today. it's off to work we go! woman: on the gulf coast, new exxonmobil projects are expected to create over 45,000 jobs. and each job created by the energy industry supports two others in the community. altogether, the industry supports over 9 million jobs nationwide. these are jobs that natural gas is helping make happen, all while reducing america's emissions. energy lives here.
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news out of the supreme court today on a subject we've covered often on this broadcast. it's a setback for advocates for transgender rights. the supreme court saying it would not hear the case of a virginia transgender high school student fighting to use the bathroom of his choice. we're going to talk with that student, gavin grimm, but first we'll bring in our legal expert ari melber. i thought both sides wanted them to hear it? >> they did. the supreme court basically saying today because the nature of this controversy was based on a position taken by the obama administration in a letter that was reversioned by -- reversed by trump administration that federal law requires some gender, because it was reversed, they sent it back to the lower courts to deal with it. the idea being, hey, there isn't any more pressing controversy, let's see what happens as the trump guidance takes hold. >> thank you. gavin grimm at the center of
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this case, rejected by the supreme court -- not him, but the case was rejected by the court today in terms of consideration. gar nice to see you. >> thanks for having me. >> when you heard the supreme court would not take up your case, what did you think? >> i was certainly disappointed and an obstacle we didn't want. i'm determined to work through this process like i have up to now. >> ari vacated a lower court ruling that had been in your favor. does that mean you're back to square one? >> i don't necessarily think that means we're back to square one but that's something my lawyers can better talk about. >> do you still have more fire in you? >> there's a fire lit under me. so far, i've come this far, i'll stay fighting ten more years if i have to. >> you're a senior in high school now, right? >> i am.
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>> so, the case likely won't be decided before you graduate. i wonder what's happening in your high school now, given all the attention you've gotten over this. are things difficult for you? >> i'm adjusted to it now but it's definitely uncomfortable. any time you have a national conversation about your bathroom use and genitals, it's uncomfortable, and i'm in a conservative area. but i have lots of support at that school as well, and i have supportive people that make a space for me, like the librarians and nurses in the nurse's office. i've managed to find a way to get by. >> you use a private bathroom now, right? >> i do. >> i bet you wish that this weren't about bathrooms at all. >> i do. i wish we didn't even have to have a conversation about bathrooms. more broadly it's not necessarily only about bathrooms, it's the right for transgender people to exist in public spaces. if you don't have a bathroom, it's very very hard to get along in society and in public. >> do you feel like you've been able to educate some folks around you? i mean, do you have people who
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come up to you and say thank you, or is it the reverse? is there a lot of animosity? >> i've had so many people come up to me and say that i've changed their minds. i've helped them come to terms with their own transition or transiti of a loved one. i definitely think i've been seeing a real world very positive impact with what i'm doing and with just the conversation in general. and i can't be more overjoyed to hear that. i think just even one changed heart is totally worth it. >> some advocates say today they think the court will eventually take up this issue. maybe this just wasn't the right -- sort of the cleanest case for them to take up. do you feel hopeful about that? >> i'm just hoping for the best possible outcome regardless of what happens moving forward. >> gavin grimm, great to have you with us. appreciate all your time. thanks. coming up, the video that has gone viral. i.c.e. agents arrested the undocumented father of a teenage girl as he took her to school. can you hear the girl crying as
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she captures it all on her cell phone. when we come back, the story on the arrest and the update on where the girl's father is now. the valiant taste times of death, but once!! uh, excuse me, waiter. i ordered the soup... of course, ma'am. my apologies. c'mon, caesar. let's go. caesar on a caesar salad? surprising. excuse me, pardon me. what's not surprising? how much money matt saved by switching to geico. could i get my parking validated? fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more.
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some other big stories we're following right now. we have just learned the united states and japan, in coordination with south korea, have requested urgent security council consultations at the u.n. on north korea's ballistic missile launches. early monday north korea fired four banned missiles into the sea of japan. officials in south korea and japan say the act represented grave threat to their country's security. a pentagon official tells nbc news that iranian ships came within 600 yards of three british ships and one civilian man's u.s. ship in the strait of. one iranian ship stopped forcing all ships to maneuver around it. the pentagon said they did not have any weapons aimed at the ships. newly confirmed hud secretary ben carson, touching on housing, immigration, and also neuroscience. he was confirmed by the senate last week by a vote of 58-41. an emotional video getting a
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lot of attention this afternoon. take a look at this. it was shot by a young girl as she and members of her family watched while her father was arrested by i.c.e. agents in east los angeles last week. you hear the girl crying. the undocumented father of four has reportedly worked and lived in the u.s. for the last 20 years. let's go live out to los angeles. my colleague, steve patterson is there. what's the latest on the family and is the father still in custody? >> yeah, 48-year-old romul avelica remains in i.c.e. custody. he was picked up on tuesday. his family says he was simply dropping his kids off at school when two black unmarked vehicles pulled them over. it was his 13-year-old daughter fatima, who you can hear crying and sobbing and pleading as she's recording her father's arrest and detention. that video has since sparked outrage in east l.a. over the nature of the arrest. fatima and her sister, jocelyn,
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recently spoke out about what happened. >> he's a good person. he doesn't deserve any of this. he's a really good person. he does nothing but work hard. he's always there for us. >> so, we do have a statement in from i.c.e. it says mr. avelica was targeted for arrest because relevant databases indicate he has multiple prior criminal convictions, including an dui in 2009 as well as outstanding date for removal from 2013. the attorney for the family says that is decades old and the only other conviction is false registration of a vehicle. there's also dispute about where he was arrested. it's a long-standing policy to avoid pickups near sensitive areas like schools, hospitals, churches. the family says this happened just two blocks away from his daughter's school. as you see there in the video. as mentioned, the community very upset about this.
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the mayor of l.a. has said this sets a dangerous precedent. there is a 3:00 p.m. pacific rally today being held in downtown l.a. kate? >> about 2 1/2 hours from now. steve, give us some context. is this being seen in the community as a one-off or is there a pattern, other incidents like it? >> yeah, there have been dozens of these arrests over the last few months. obviously, the community has been on edge. the school is educating children and parents about what to do in case something like this happens to their family. the mayor, again, has been speaking out about this. there's been a lot of upset atmosphere regarding these i.c.e. arrests. particularly when they are in these areas that are very near to schools, very near to churches, very near to hospitals, in local communities where there are clusters of these folks who live there, who are, obviously, worried about this happening to them. so, this has been a cause for concern for some time. in this incident, with obviously
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that video of a young 13-year-old girl crying as she's watching her father be arrested, this is really sparked a fire that has started to carry through. i think we'll see that at that rally today. >> steve patterson in l.a., thanks so much. up next, allegations that members of the ra mean corps shared graphic photos of fellow female marines on a secret facebook page. we'll have details on the investigation into that scandal after a quick break.
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this afternoon the marine corps is dealing with a scandal. defense department officials are now investigating potentially hundreds of marines for allegedly circulating nude pictures of their female colleagues online. those photos, some of which were taken without the wen's knowledge, were posted to a fabook group called marines united with nearly 30,000 followers. all of this first revealed by the war horse, which is a nonprofit news organization run by a marine veteran. nbc's hans nichols has the latest from the pentagon. this is such a disturbing story. >> it's a disturbing story. secretary mattis has been informed about this. he knew about it himself, a former marine, before it broke. he hasn't received a formal update on it. he is through spokesmen calling it troubling. the question is how many active duty marines were actually involved. there's some 2500 comments on this facebook page. some of these comments, kate, are quite explicit, quite crude. as you mentioned, they're
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attached to some nude photos of fellow marines, in some cases, fellow service members. the overall facebook group, marines united, 30,000 participants. one challenge for investigators, this is a formal investigation by the ncis in the navy, one challenges will be figuring out just houma reasons participated and who was involved and in what capacity. one of the marines who took the pictures of one of the people, one of the marines at camp lejeune is no longer in the marine corps. the person we believe to be a contractor who posted some of these pictures, he no longer is working for that subcontractor. so, it looks like some action has been taken. the marine corps themselves is being very swift and unambiguous and condemning this kind of behavior. clearly, there's a cultural -- a broader cultural issue. kate? >> do we know if the women knew these pictures of them were -- existed on this site? >> in most cases, no.
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we do know some women were contacted, and then when some of their friends saw these pictures on social media, that's how they found out. now, some of the photos, according to the war story journal -- war horse journal that first broke this story, some of them appear to maybe consensual photos at a time they shared when people had better relationships. we're trying to figure out how many were consensua and how many were taken without anyone's knowledge. >> let me switch subjects dramatically on you because you're sitting at the pentagon. we just reported about north korea firing some ballistic missiles. that's now drawing response from neighboring countries, wanting the u.n. to be involved. >> this is a somewhat response to the missile launch we saw in president trump's early presidency. we know five actual launches, only four splashed down. with each consecutive launch,
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they look to be intermediate missile, they are learning more. they are learning exercises for them which is why it's scary to the u.s. officials at the pentagon. now, this wasn't the big test that kim jong-un bragged about saying he would do the intercontinental one, a miss that will could reach the west coast of the united states. these missiles all traveled about 600 miles, fell into the sea of japan. in a lot of ways it looks similar to a test they did back in september. again, they make incremental, knowledgeable increases about what they know, how their missiles behave. that's going to get them farther down the road to doing something that could be intercontinental. >> hans nichols at the pentagon for us, thanks. up next, the latest on this, the white house coming under fire for president trump's tweets, alleging former president barack obama ordered a wiretap trumpower without citing any evidence. >> the president of the united states is accusing the former
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president of wiretapping him. >> i think that this is, again, something that if this happened, martha, if -- >> if, if, if, if. >> i agree. >> why is the president saying it did happen?
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look, the president firmly believes that the obama administration may have tapped into the phones at trump tower. >> is that based on media reports? >> this is something -- this is something we should look into. we'd like to know for sure. >> if director comey has something to say, we're willing to hear it. he's just directing the department of justice to bat this down. >> but thus far, i have not seen anything directly that would support what the president has said. >> that the president of the united states directed surveillance on someone. he hasn't been able to do that since the mid-1970s. so, on its face, that's just incorrect. >> if there was a fisa court order on something like this. >> something like this, absolutely. >> at this point you can't confirm or deny whether that exists? >> i can deny it. >> there is no fisa court order? >> not to my knowledge. >> of anything at trump to youer? >> no. >> some of the conversation over the past couple of days about this wiretapping allegation made
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first by president trump in a series of tweets early saturday morning, so where did president trump get this information from? there was a breitbart article on friday, which cited conservative talk show host mark levin, who on thursday said this. >> was the president of the united states on behalf of hillary clinton and the democrat party using our intelligence services or the fisa court to gather information on their opponents? this is a massive scandal. the likes of which we've never seen. >> then on sunday morning levin was on fox and he said this. >> do you think former president obama was involved in this? and if so, how much was he involved? >> i'm not nostradamus here, i just think we ought to find out. >> this past hour press secretary sean spicer was asked where the president got information for his tweet.
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here's a part of what sean spicer said. >> look, i think he has made it clear there's continued reports that have been out there. i'm not going to continue to -- i think the president made it clear yesterday that he wants -- that he wants congress to go in and look at this. i think there is substantial reporting out there from -- from individuals and from sources. >> let me bring in michael steele, the former rnc chairman, and msnbc political analyst as well as isha moody-wills. thanks to both of you for being here. michael, i have to start with you. you just heard sean spicer, not directly answering the question about where the president got his information. he said there are reports, multiple, substantial reporting out there, from other individuals and sources, were his words. where is this all coming from? as a republican outside the white house, how are you going to deal with this. >> where it's coming from is from conspiracy thinking and
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theories that exist in a space that we don't apparently occupy. and i think that that's one thing. and the fact that this has found its way to the president's twitter feed is serious. the fundamental question, i think, remains, kate, who told you this? on what do you base this? was it something you picked up in an intelligence briefing? was it something that's been put on your desk in some form? you just cannot go out and make this type of a statement without the press, without republicans and democrats on the hill asking, where is the substan shags. the administration can't substantiate it, other than this is being reported widely. who is reporting it? there's that. with republicans, as you saw with marco rubio and others over the weekend, they're like, i'm not even going to get into this. i'm not going to go there, whether it's kevin chaffetz or marco rubio, they want to create that distance because there's
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nothing substantively to back up the claim. until there is, i think you'll continue to see that distancing from this narrative. >> do you think they want to move away from this and just get -- change the subject? >> well, i don't think we should change the subject. you know, what is really, really disappointing to me is how ngerous this president is proving himself to be. i want us to pause and jus really let it sink in that the president of the united states is right now peddling and propaganda and lies and tweeting out things that are very, very dangerous accusations, that have no merit and no basis in fact. there is no evidence to prove this. we can't normalize this behavior. and act like the leader of the free world is supposed to run around making blanket statements based in nothing. just because they say it, then suddenly we should believe that it's true. this is the thing, you know, just about our democracy, that i want us to be reminded about how the process should actually work. that if, in fact, an investigation should happen and
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there should be an investigation, to explore real facts. but there aren't any here. there's really just conspiracy theories. we can't have a government that is run off of conspiracy theories. >> michael, that's what all the around the president who are speaking out are saying, is that they want a congressional investigation and they're defending the boss. they were all completely, apparently according to our white house reporters, they were stunned by these tweets on saturday morning. they didn't know this was coming. and now people like sean spicer are having to go out and try to explain it to the press. are there different groupings of republicans right now? those who are with the president on this and those who aren't? >> i think there may be, sfer certainly if you're inside the white house, you're going to be with the president. you're not going to have sean spicer come out and say something contrary to what the president has been saying. i think the lines are more clearly delineated with those folks outside, on the hill, on k
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street. around the country. who again, woke up on saturday morning to these tweets and they're wondering where did this come from? there was no basis for this kind of conversation that it would relate back to the fall campaign. that was not an allegation. that surfaced at that time. and again, what i'm hearing from various people is this is just another form of distraction. that's not democrats saying that, that's republicans saying that. and i think that that's an important distinction again going back to my first point they want to create separation on this issue. >> and speaking of distraction and what a lot of congressional republicans anyway want to talk about is obamacare. we thought we might have a plan today, now they're saying some time this we're. we're going to see the republican plan making it's debut. we expected this bill as you know provide more tax credits, expand health savings accounts, reduce federal spending on medicaid. those are some of the clues that we're getting any any chance that democrats can back any of this? >> here's the thing, i think we need to actually have a real conversation that hasn't been
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seen yet about what this idea of replace looks like. i don't know the democrats can back it because frankly i don't know that democrats understand what the alternative is that's being presented. and so, i agree with you that i think the republicans would like to take back the conversation and talk about real subtantive policy and the question becomes, why haven't they? shame on them for not actually saying, you know what, we're not distracted by conspiracy theories, but we want to talk about what our policy ideas are, in this case around obamacare and lay tha for the american people in a way that we can have real rich conversations about how to move forward as a nation. >> we think we know a little bit of what might be in the plan. quite frankly, we haven't seen it and you know senator rand paul -- >> yeah. >> he hasn't seen it either. he's been running around -- i don't think he's in town yet today, on friday, he was bringing his photocopier around capitol hill just to make kind of a stunt, right? to make the point he can't gate copy of this thing.
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there's a twitter account now for his photocopier. we can show it. do we have that? >> lord help us. >> well, you know, it's theater. but michael, but in all seriousness, he's trying to make a point. why no openness? why haven't republicans said here's what we want to do? >> because i don't think all republicans are on the same page when it comes to replace. you've got some people who are talking repair. you have others who are talking, you know, reform. so, you know, they haven't figured out which r word they want to settle on yet, and i think that's part of this. so right now, the idea is to try to gavelize as much around this concept to replace and why is that important? that's where the president is. the president wants a bill that does one -- two things at the same time. it does a full repeal and it does a full replace. and that's where it's still kind of sticking a little bit for republicans, but here's the pushback that you're hearing from folks around the country, and that is while you've had eight years to figure out what a replacement would look like
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since you've been preaching that for the last, at least the last three years. so i think that right now you're seeing within the ranks a republicans that nsion. >> great to have both of you with us, thanks so much. up next, we're checking in on wall street. how are the markets reacting on this monday? the dow now down what about 32 at the moment. we'll check in after a break. liberty mutual stood with me when i was too busy with the kids to get a repair estimate. liberty did what? yeah, with liberty mutual all i needed to do to get an estimate was snap a photo of the damage and voila! voila! (sigh) i wish my insurance company had that... wait! hold it... hold it boys... there's supposed to be three of you... where's your brother? where's your brother? hey, where's charlie? charlie?! you can leave worry behind when liberty stands with you. liberty stands with you™ liberty mutual insurance
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all right. we are own a couple minutes away from the closing bell o wall street. right now the dow is down around 40 point after the record setting highs. for more, ali velshi. she's been following the markets all day today. what are you seeing? >> well, you know, it's taking a breather. no particular reason it's down or up, but the market these days is driven by some event. remember, a lot of the gain after donald trump was elected were in the early days. and one of the biggest gainers of all, not only one, in the dow it's actually the biggest gainer, is dow jones. and i'm sorry, goldman sachs stock. this thing has been going up since donald trump was elected. most of the game was from election day until about the beginning of this year. of that 39% that it's up, it's up only about 5% this year. now, keep in mind, the stock market as a whole averages about 7% in a given year. so the fact that goldman sachs is up 5% at it's march is telling, but 39%. this is typical of a company
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that is going to benefit a great deal from three things, one is donald trump's promise to decomplicate and lower corporate taxes. number two, the promise to deregulate, and number three, i think i can show you this, there are a lot of goldman people, ex-goldman workers. goldman alumni in this administration. you could see them there. steve bannon from goldman. steve mnuchin, and gary just before actually joining the trump administration. and jay clayton on the bottom left is going to be the head of the securities and exchange commission. he's not confirmed yet, but of the six you see there, five are in the administration already. and it always helps when people friendly to your company are in the administration. so, that is the reason why goldman sachs is up as much as it is 39% since the election. not everybody else had done so well, but goldman is the big winner in the stock market from the election of donald trump. there you go, the closing bell,
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the dow closing about 40 points lower today. >> i like the picture, ali, ring the bell for gender equality. >> not bad. maybe oneay we'll have some reason to do it. kate, i'll take it from you, have a great afrnoon. >> take over the next hour. >> it's been a very full afternoon actually. good afternoon, everyone, i'm ali velshi in for steve kornacki. day 46 of the first 100 days of donald trump's administration. topping the agenda right now, travel ban, take two. >> three of the nations are state sponsors of terrorism. the other three have served as safe havens for terrorist countries. >> well the signing of a new order. the scrapping of an old one. president trump taking a second stab at measures to halt immigrants from some majority muslim countries from entering the united states. also on the agenda,

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