dearthere's no other way to say this. it's over. i've found a permanent escape from monotony. together, we are perfectly balanced. our senses awake. our hearts racing as one. i know this is sudden, but they say...if you love something set it free. see you around, giulia good morning and welcome to "a.m. joy." when donald trump fired acting attorney general sally yates for refusing to enforce his original travel ban targeting seven muslim countries, many, including this show, dubbed it the monday night massacre, recalling the night of october
20th, 1973, when the attorney general and the deputy attorney general of the united states under richard nixon resigned in protest rather than comply with nixon's order to fire the special prosecutor looking into the watergate break-in. those resignations in protest and nixon abolishing the special prosecutor's office afterward were ducked the saturday night massacre. well, on saturday, the trump administration orchestrated its second purge of federal civil servants having previously dismissed more than two dozen career and mitt calpolitical appointe appointees. the dismissals came after two days of trump loyalists going on cable tv calling for a purge of anyone in government who isn't absolutely, unquestionably loyal to donald trump. >> for weeks we've been warning you about the deep state obama holdover government bureaucrats
who are hell-bent on destroying this president, president trump. tonight it's time for the trump administration to begin to purge these saboteurs before it's too late. >> and then iowa congressman steve king said this to me and msnbc's katy tur on friday. >> it sounds to me as if you just suggested a purge, a government-wide purge from the white house, directed by the white house, of any staffer who previously worked for the obama administration. is that what you're suggesting? >> anyone who's a political appointment is what i said. and i will use the word "purge." i think that needs to happen. i think it's a descriptive word and i know there are people that will attach extra meaning to that. i don't know a better word to use. >> jefferson beauregard sessions executed that on saturday. most complied but one in new york refused to go quietly. so on saturday evening, donald
trump fired preet bharara. someone "time" magazine once said is busting waulll street. he led new york's southern district. he's taken down big corruption cases involving both political parties and has very high prosecutal success rate. in september trump asked him to stay on and bharara agreed. >> we had a good meeting. i said i would absolutely consider staying on. i agreed to stay on. i have already spoken to senator sessions, who is the nominee to be the attorney general. >> well, not anymore. joining me now is joan walsh, harry siegel, evan siegfried and subo chandra. i'm going to you first, what was he working on?
>> a whole lot of things. two of the governor's closest allying and what came out in november, an investigation of fox news that came out in a different court hearing last month when a lawyer for former host there said that, hey, he had gotten a subpoena and that the southern district, sometimes called the sovereign district, was looking into the payoffs that fox had made in response to suits there, sexual harassment and otherwise, to see if those had been basically hidden from shareholders. so that's one development since trump said preet would be staying. >> and that's the roger ailes sexual harassment suit to be clear. >> to be very clear. the name that's come up immediately to replace preet is the son of the former attorney general who represented ailes
and has been in business with giuliani, partners at two different law firms for over a decade. >> evan, you wrote a piece online saying this was a mistake for the trump administration to push preet bharara out. >> he can now become that face to the opposition movement that has been sorely lacking. he has gravitas on both sides of the aisle. republicans here, especially locally elected republicans are apoplectic that he was fired. they wanted him to stay. judicial watch wanted him to stay on because of all the corruption cases he's been prosecuting and investigating. any charge against bill de blasio or andrew cuomo can now be answered by this is a republican witch hunt. but preet bharara has that ability to stand up and say to the president now i am going to be the thorn in your heel and i will not stop. >> and on the question of what he can now discussion, just to
put up some of the investigations that he was involved in. he was involved not only in this investigation of fox news and the payouts that were made over roger ailes, the allegations of sexual harassment, but also russian money laundering. he was looking at cases of that. he had put away some people involved in a turkish corruption scandal, thinking about general michael flynn, who was just lobbying for the government of turkey. trump tower is in his jurisdiction, so any investigations that have to do with what might have been going on in trump tower is in his jurisdiction. and dinesh d' souza, is he able to talk about those investigations now that he's not an employee of the united states government? >> to a limited degree, joy. what we see is a reputation for fearlessness and independence and not really caring if someone was from his own community.
there were several that he prutprut prosecuted. only to a limited degree. for example, if there's a grand jury investigation going on, bharara can't talk about that. it is customary in the department of justice not to talk about ongoing investigations. what i believe will happen, though, is that as bharara emerges and starts to give interviews, we may start to see little hints, little tea leaves of the kinds of issues that were in his jurisdiction. beyond what you just mentioned about russian money laundering, trump tower, the famous tax returns that we've never seen. we don't know if there's a criminal tax investigation going on since donald trump has been so secretive in saying this never-ending audit is going on. who knows if there's a criminal tax investigation going on. so there's going to be a very limited extent from what we may hear about the nature of his jurisdiction, the nature of his office's work and what may have motivated his termination. >> and there's a certain sort of sense in which every time that
the trump administration tries to turn the page off of the subject of, for instance, russia, they have managed to turn the page right back onto it, right? if you look at some of the specific cases that preet bharara was looking at, he had charged russian spies in january of 2015. he announced charges against three men, one of whom he managed to convict, he had gone into this question of money laundering, of the sort of russian money laundering schemes, some of which lead little paths back to trump tower based on where some of these people were locating their businesses. and he is somebody who himself is personally banned from russia because of his investigations back in 2013. so the trump administration by ousting this guy has managed to put the spotlight right back on some of the things that he was working on, russia and turkey. >> exactly. and there was an interesting moment in i think it was harry's story where trump's office actually calls bharara and asks that he call the president back
and he doesn't, because he is not allowed to be directly in touch with the president of the united states. so he calls jeff sessions or he calls sessions' office and says i can't do this. and then the next thing he knows, hgets a ca king him to resign, which he refuses to do. that's bizarre too. the whole thing -- lots of people said yesterday, legal twitter was like this happens all the time, don't freak out, folks. to some extent it's true. but to do it with this kind of disruption. to do it with nobody ready in place to lead all of these offices without leadership is unusual and the way that they did it to bharara is strange. we saw, you showed, they had asked him to stay. jeff sessions asked him to stay only a week ago. so what changed? >> and you had, evan, the president of the united states, the white house called only three u.s. attorneys. he was one of them. they tried to call him but he said it's unethical, i'm not going to take this call. the two others were people who were asked to stay and you also have an administration that does not have replacements for any of
these people other than just rumors. >> they had to transition out but this is a bigger sign of the administration itself and how it's unable to manage things. there are -- we're starting to see on twitter a lot of people saying this was a conspiracy, he might have been looking into donald trump. no. you're basically then exceeding -- or acknowledging that somehow the white house is competent. they aren't. they are basically running around, and this was just score settling by getting rid of bharara with chuck schumer because chuck schumer was the mentor to preet bharara and chuck schumer has not been very nice to the white house and the president is getting revenge on him. >> that could just be a cover story. in and of itself that's correct. you're going to punish this independent u.s. attorney for the sins, the supposed partisan sins of a democrat? that would be ridiculous as a story in itself. >> yeah. >> it doesn't necessarily cover up other things that bharara was doing. i just want to make one more point. it's not necessarily incompetence. it is partly incompetence. it's also a complete happiness
with chaos. who needs 46 u.s. attorneys looking into every manner of wrongdoing. i'm not saying that any of them are looking at trump, but it's just there's a comfort with having nobody -- none of those people ready. there's a comfort with not having ambassadors. there's a comfort with completely decimating the state department so that no one is directing anything there, including, perhaps, rex tillerson. this is a strategy too. >> it's a strategy, but at the same time, harry, you also had just four days before this saturday night massacre, if you want to call it that. you had crew, ask preet bharara to look into whether donald trump's many businesses may violate the emoluments clause. a failure by your office to investigate will leave the nation exposed to foreign governments directly and indirectly, providing payments and financial ben at this time to president trump when other
governments may be seeking to influence the executive branch. this is exactly the type of problem they asked in the constitution. so he was looking at one of donald trump's nemesis, the mayor of new york city and the governor o new york, he was also asking to look into donald trump. >> potential, sure. as we've been saying, this is government by chaos. trump won the election somehow by chaos. sorting out what slop he's disinterested in by calling these u.s. attorneys generally, and the two that are staying are the acting deputy attorney general and the nominee to be the new deputy attorney general. those are the people who would be leading the russia investigation that jeff sessions has recused himself from. so we have this letter and we don't know exactly what that means. we don't know what preet is investigating. we have hannity and others talking about a purge and they knew this was coming and got a little heads up. so what's the horse and what's the cart is hard to tell.
you have all these messes. going back to the ambassadors and this, there is zero for these 44 u.s. attorneys. no one nominated. with the ambassadors it was get out that day. it's your kids who are in the middle of school overseas, they're done. so there's a sense in which he's saying what the haey, we're goig to create chaos, almost silicon valley style. what's incredible is he doesn't have his own people there. there's all these democrats and deep state folks that you don't trust, it's their right hands who are now going to be leading these agencies and these attorneys' offices until they finally start figuring it out. >> and what does that mean? does that mean you have career civil servants who now are actually in charge of these investigations or is the second layer also political appointees? >> well, at least for the time being you have career civil sev
servants in place leading the office, but remember bharara is known to be a very active manager, so he is going to have personal knowledge of all the investigations that are going on, to be fully engaged in them. to have this disruptive sudden firing -- imagine anybody's workplace, if somebody who's a leader of the organization is suddenly gone, who has so much institutional knowledge in their head and is conducting and coordinating and pushing and leading the strategy, that is a significant loss to the office. to have it done so precipitously, to me the most telling fact is the fact that this was a u.s. attorney that donald trump and jeff sessions had said could stay, and then they suddenly and very dramatically fire him immediately. what that says to me is that they were concerned about what he was going to do and his fearlessness and his independence just at the time that we have russia in our sights and we have financial improprieties in our sights. this was the office that was going to be involved in it. this was the u.s. attorney who
was going to be deeply engaged in it. and now he's gone. >> drip, drip, drip. all right, joan walsh will be back in our next hour. thank you to harry siegel and evan siegfried and subho chandra. up next, even sarah palin hates it. stay with us. your insurance company won't replace the full value of your totaled new car. the guy says, "you picked the wrong insurance plan." no, i picked the wrong insurance company. with new car replacement™, we'll replace the full value of your car plus depreciation.
'17 would be a disaster for obamacare. that's the year it was meant to explode, because obama won't be here. that was when it was supposed to be -- as bad as it is now, it will get even worse. >> donald trump's latest conspiracy theory the affordable care act is a bobbytrap rigged to implode the moment president obama left office.
fact check, false. republicans have bragged that their repeal and replace bill is much shorter and yet they still found space for these items. making sure people who win the lottery can't get medicaid. double the amounts ceo pay tax break. and defunds planned parenthood. joining me now is yvette clark. also with me is kevin cait, and cornell belcher, democratic pollster and author of "a man black in the white house." congressman, i'm start with you. so far just a few of the organizations that are opposed to what i call tryan care, aarp
is against it, the american academy of pediatrics is against it, the american hospital association is against it, the american medical association, the american nurse association is against it. even sarah palin is against it at this point. why is it that paul ryan is continuing to push a bill that republicans hate and every single one of these organizations hates too? >> absolutely. listen, joy, i have no idea what is on paul ryan's mind. you didn't add the koch brothers. they're against it too. the bottom line to it is the republicans are trying to use a vehicle, the reconciliation vehicle, and they see a small window through which they can get this done. and so they have hastily put together a really bad bill. and, you know, they're going to pay the price for that. >> when you say the reconciliation pace, that is only allowing them to repeal the tax portions, things that affect taxation and fiscal. they can't repeal, for instance, putting your kids on -- having your kids stay on your health care.
>> absolutely. what they're trying to do is get rid of the individual mandate. that is like their ultimate goal. and so they're using this vehicle. they have just sort of turned this whole health care policy inside out, upside down, making sure that insurance companies will benefit, will get a windfall, and putting the risk of us at risk, from our seniors to our children to the poorest of the poor in our nation. it's really a disgrace. >> and you know, kevin, you've already had an estimate that 6 to 10 million people would lose their haelt care. brookings institution says it's more than 15 million lose their health care. what the congresswoman just said, they still have a mandate, they're basically just replacing the taxes that you'd pay to the federal government with a 30% premium you pay directly to insurance companies. >> right. it's almost like it's not repeal and replace, it's repeal and revenge. and the revenge is obviously aimed at president obama, but who's bearing the brunt of this
are our seniors, are our rural americans. aarp said up to $7,000, $8,000 that older americans may have to pay. but it's one thing to go on twitter and act like you're meghan trainor and be all about that base. it's another thing to actually make policy and deal with the consequences in midterms, which the congresswoman and i agree may be pretty harsh for republicans. >> talking about that base, cornell, it's very interesting. because if you look at where the affordable care act had the most impact, where you actually saw the medicaid expansion happen, because republican governors felt like they couldn't not do it, and where you had the most expansions in coverage, it's right in that rust belt area. it's in places like ohio, pennsylvania, west virginia, kentucky i think had the best outcomes of all in terms of increasing coverage. republicans are taking a huge risk not only going at seniors, who let's just be clear, they
get mail from the aarp. the aarp can get around their messaging at fox news and get in the mail boxes of seniors and tell them their coverage is going to skyrock in cost. >> and, joy, to what you said, i mean kw"the washington post" haa great article on this. started talking about in rural west virginia so many people have been covered by aca. and they have been promised more jobs and their health care. and so republicans are potentially creating the perfect midterm storm when you know what these red areas that democrats have struggled to compete in, all of a sudden you're giving congresswoman clark and her fellow democrats a golden midterm issue to go after republicans in more red areas, because here is where -- you know, these people are going to be losing coverage, paying more, and so they now -- republicans will now own health care. by the way, they're going to own health care for a plan that
quite frankly is not as good as aca, is not going to cover as many people at aca. they're going to have to take that into had midterms and a chance for democrats is to make them pay for it both from a policy perspective but also from a values perspective. kicking millions of people off of health care in rural areas. that's a moral question for democrats as well. >> and that is the point, congresswoman, because you do have donald trump saying don't put my name on it, but he's still out there selling it and he has his team out there selling it. tom price, the hhs secretary, appointed by donald trump, is out there selling ryancare. let's listen to tom price on "meet the press" with chuck todd trying to explain why it's okay to charge a senior citizen who's getting obamacare more money for health care. take a listen. >> in fay yet county, west virginia, the $4,000 tax credit that a 60-year-old making $30,000 a year that will get under the american health care
act is almost $8,000 less than they would get under obamacare. >> that's looking at it in a silo. if you look at it in the way that the market will allow then for individuals to have choices, who knows what that 60-year-old wants. i know that the federal government doesn't know what that 60-year-old wants. i know he or she knows what he or she wants. and the way you provide a decrease in cost and choices for folks, you make it so the system can be responsive to that individual. >> congresswoman, you have two separate conversations going on. chuck todd asks tom price about this senior getting less money in their pocket to pay for health care and he completely ignores the cost piece of it to the consumer and says, but you get more choices. they're only framing it as the market will provide you all these choices and we're just going to ignore the fact that you have less money with which to purchase these choices. >> it's the flim-flam.
basically they're returning us back to the broken system that we had before the affordable care act. people purchased catastrophic plans that didn't cover anything needed to maintain your health or when they had to utilize it, had these astronomical dedu deductibles that basically left them bankrupt. so the republicans have no justification for what they have done. they haven't scored their bill with the congressional budget office. they have no hearings to really vet these policies so thathe american people could see in transparency exactly what they were offering. and when you look at the substance of it, it's reverse robin hood. it's give to the rich, taking from the poor. >> let's listen to paul ryan one more time because when he did his powerpoint he essentially admitted that. he admitted that this is about them not believing that people with more money should pay in so the people with less money or people who were healthy should pay for people who are sick.
take a listen. >> so take a look at this chart. the red slice here are what i would call people with pre-existing conditions. people who have real health care problems. the blue is the rest of the people in the individual market. that's the market where people don't get health insurance at pair jobs or buy it themselves. the whole idea of obamacare is the people on the blue side pay for the people on the red side. it's not working and that's why it's in a death spiral. >> kevin, you are in the great state of florida where there are quite a few seniors, quite a few people who didn't get the medicaid expansion but are using the exchanges and needing health care. is there any evidence that you've seen in your long time as a political consultant that americans are more concerned with having options, right, even if one of the options is a health care plan that doesn't actually cover anything, but just having a cheap option to say they have health care, that that's more important to them to have options than to have money to pay for insurance? >> watching that powerpoint presentation is like michael
scott from "the office." i don't know what the point of that powerpoint was other than to explain how actual insurance is supposed to work. but i know the congresswoman said this. these are real people. and in florida, our elections swing by 1% traditionally back and forth. when you go out and talk to these people, how are they going to sell that? i think part of their strategy is to rip it off as quickly as they can to avoid what we saw in 2009 in the summer where the town halls happened. i know they didn't like the sneak preview of the town halls they recently had. so i think what they're trying to do is sell sand as salt and just, you know, see what they can get away with. >> cornell, you're our pollster. is there any evidence that you can point to, any data that shows that people hate the idea of healthy people paying into the system so much that they would be willing to give up $7,000, $8,000 in their pocket just so that they can have the sort of existential glee of
knowing that not a penny of their money is going to pay for someone that is sick. do you see any evidence that people believe in that philosophy so much that they'd give up money. >> couple of things. one is, you will notice that the aca over the last couple of months has been growing more and more popular as republicans attack it and try to take it away. what was really telling there, joy, is the -- it's anti-community, right? and this is the values proposition that democrats have to put out there. it is the idea that those who are most fortunate, we have no responsibility to take care of the sick and the old and the less fortunate in our society. and when you look across these red states and in these congressional districts where democrats can take back, they are in the bible belt. these are people who go to church every sun, twice sometimes. to the values proposition, that we as a community of americans have no responsibility to the
poor and the sick around us, i think democrats have good chances. >> i want to throw out a challenge. if you are somebody who would be willing to give up $8,000 in your pocket in terms of the health care that you're able to get just so that you know that the healthy don't have to pay for the sick anymore, or that you would rather have a cheap insurance option just so you have choices, please tweet me. i want to hear from you. if you're willing to give up $8,000 in your pocket just so you know that the healthy never have to take care of the sick anymore in america, please tweet me because i want to talk to you. we might book you on the show. thank you all, appreciate it. coming up, the courts are messing with texas on redistricting. that's next. internet dial up sound hi, i'm the internet.
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redistricting in texas discriminated against black and hispanic voters. the districts were drawn in 2011. texas could still appeal the case to the supreme court, but if the decision holds, the districts will likely have to be redrawn. it could also mean that texas' voting practices could be put back under federal supervision as originally required by the voting rights act, which the supreme court gutted four years ago. ruling that racism in voting laws was pretty much over. up next, the trump administration's draconian plans for women and children crossing the border. are holding you back or is it your allergy pills? break through your allergies. introducing flonase sensimist. more complete allergy relief in a gentle mist you may not even notice. using unique mistpro technology, new flonase sensimist delivers a gentle mist to help block six key inflammatory substances that cause your symptoms. most allergy pills only block one. and six is greater than one. break through your allergies. new flonase sensimist. ♪
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i would do almost anything to deter the people from central america to getting on this very, very dangerous network that brings them up through mexico into the united states. yes, i am considering in order to deter more movement along with terribly dangerous network, i am considering exactly that. they will be well cared for as
we deal with their parents. >> this week homeland security security john kelly said dhs is considering separating children from their parents at the border as part of a strategy to deter people from crossing illegally. that would mean detaining adults while the children are placed in government care or with relatives in the u.s. joining me are raul reyes and marina, host of "in the thick" thank you both for being here. raul, unicef has called this idea cruel and traumatic. unicef tweeted a statement in response to what you just heard john kelly say, saying, and tony lake, said separating children from their parents at border crossings, cruel and traumatic. this is unbelievable that this is being considered. >> yeah. it's almost as if this administration on immigration is trying to outdo itself. it already has the record for being the cruellest towards immigrants and their families, but now they're trying to up the bar. the thing is to know about this
policy, aside from being cruel and inhumane, you don't have to be a legal expert or immigration advocate to recognize that, it's probably illegal. because that's a violation of these international treaties we have on refugees and asylum seekers. it's a violation of family law, which says the guiding principle is family unity, it's a violation of immigration law. to give people an idea of how -- what uncharted territory we are in with the trump administration, the former heads of i.c.e. under president obama and former head under george w. bush, they have both publicly stated that they are astonished by the trump administration actions and that they think they're probably testing the bounds of illegality. now, these are former heads of i.c.e. and the people say what happens to these kids. i tell people, if you're a conservative and very anti-immigration, anti-undocumented people, you're going to be paying for those kids because they will go in our foster care system. they will be language difficulty so hard for them to be placed.
taxpayers, us, we will be paying for their care. >> you've also had -- there's two parts of what you've heard the administration say they want to do, separating mothers fm their children at the border but taking anyone, no matter where they came from, and attempting to push them over the border into mexico. mexico has said absolutely not. mexico's secretary of foreign relations, their foreign minister, meeting with the trump administration in washington said the following. we believe that to separate families on their arrival independently of the reasons represents an attack on the integrity of the fundamental unit of social life that is family. that is what he said about the women and children separation idea. on the second piece of it, of just sending anyone from central america and pushing them to mexico, mexico rejects the u.s. plan. they're absolutely saying no to that as well. >> right. so what we are witnessing and we've talked a lot about this, actually joy, you do it here, across much of the other television and newspapers are we
seeing the constant reporting, you know? what i worry about is the normalization of this all. the normalization that we are now talking about children being separated. the normalization of a kind of fear that sadly if you are -- if you are not the children of immigrants, frankly if you are not a person of color, and this is where it gets really difficult, right, because there is a division that is being created in our country. my daughter was born in this country. she gets put into secondary inspection because of her name. the difference between raul and i is that he was born in this country and i wasn't. so, for example, the normalization looks like, joy, just yesterday at the gym, somebody in the gym knows me. comes up to me and says, you know what, i'm
crisis in south asian communities that we're not even talking about. >> and to that very point, those of you who think that this is only targeting people who came to this country from mexico or central america, i want you to listen to a 2015 interview that steve bannon did on his radio show that he did for breitbart with one donald j. trump and he is not talking about immigrants from mexico, he's talking about a whole sidifferent set of immigrants. take a listen. >> we have to keep our talented people in this country. i think you agree with that. do you agree with that? >> well, when two-thirds or three-quarters of the ceos in silicon valley are from south asia or from asia, on my point
is countries more like sessions, country is more than an economy. we're a civic society. >> well, in any event, you have to keep them legally. >> okay. he was talking about jeff sessions agreeing with him. there are too many asians in silicon valley. so this is a policy that is not just about hispanics. >> this is a policy that also people tend to forget, jeff sessions, steve bannon, stephen miller, another advisor to the white house, they're not just against illegal immigration, they're also against legal immigration. they want to also cut -- one of the things that i feel has been underreported with all the talk of the muslim ban and muslim ban 2.0, with those bans donald trump is cutting the number of refugees we take in half. they just do not want all of these inflows of people and it is having a tremendous effect. >> that are not european because donald trump, donald trump is taking out hb-2 visas because he only hires foreign workers, mostly eastern europeans, to work in his businesses. mar-a-lago implies eastern
european immigrants. >> and the average undocumented person has been here 13 years. figure the amount of skrupdisru these deportations are. >> lilliana cardona, an immigrant from guatemala has been here since 1995. we ran out of time in this segment but i want to let you know, we're going to put more about this on our facebook page. i really, really want to get to this story. raul reyes and maria, thank you guys. coming up in our next hour, more on the purge of u.s. attorneys and jerry springer joins me live to talk about donald trump's fascination with trash media. more "a.m. joy" after the break.
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here's to the wildcats this i gotta try .. bendy... spendy weekenders. whatever kind of weekender you are, there's a hilton for you. book your weekend break direct at hilton.com and join the weekenders. thanks to all our viewers and tweeps who join the conversation at #amjoy. join the conversation on twirpt and facebook and also on snapchat and instagram. up next, the irish senator whose denunciation of donald trump went viral, and what he's doing
america has just the fascist and i don't use that lightly. what else do you threaten to imprison your political opponents. what else do you call somebody who threatens to not allow someone of a certain religious faith into their country? how would you describe somebody deporting 10 million people. >> his impassioned speech against donald trump went viral after the election. he went on to criticize irish prime minister after previously calling trump racist and dangerous called to congratulate him on his victory. trump will welcome the prime minister to the white house on thursday, which happens to be the same day that trump's travel ban 2.0 goes into effect. will it all be green ties and
clovers or will he challenge trump on his immigration policies that could leave undocumented irish immigrants vulnerable to deportation. joining me now is senator riordian who is in new york for irish stand, an anti-trump protest rally on st. patrick's day. thank you for being here. >> it's great to be here. >> so you obviously came to be known to a lot of the american public for that, what we're calling a rant, but really an impassioned speech. do you at this point take back one word of it, any of it? >> no, not at all. i feel more strongly about it now more than ever particularly because the travel ban is coming on the very day our prime minister will be in the white house. for us and people of the irish background, to see the number of irish americans who surround trump, i think they have comptely forgten their own heritage, their own history. the irish story is one of immigration, it's one of seeking refuge, it's one of overcoming
sectarianism. all of the stereotypes that are laid against us now -- i think any irish american who celebrates st. patrick's day but also supports the travel ban is somebody who's forgotten what it means to be irish. so on st. patrick's day, we're taking a stand, an irish stand and joining with every other community who feels fearful at the riverside church in new york, a place where martin luther king made his famous anti-vietnam war speech and we're standing together. there will be many well-known people there. lots of people join together to make that stand and to remind irish america that ireland does not stand with this man and that ireland's story is one of overcoming diversity. and if you feel fearful in america, the irish will stand with you. >> and one of the things that i think is one of the con ceits when you look at illegal
immigration, everyone is from mexico. but there are undocumented irish who are also subject to the same deportation rules being applied to others. >> there's 50,000 undocumented irish in america. i suppose many people wolf that they're not necessarily under the same trap because they come from a white european christian background and that's what's so troubling about the trump regime, that they're trying to create division between immigrants of different backgrounds. so while we awill try to advocae on behalf of those undocumented irish who are here and get them regularized, to be honest the first st. patrick's day since trump happened and since brexit happened, much closer to us in ireland and that also had a very anti-immigration feel to that debate, we feel it's important to speak for every immigrant anywhere, beuse we are an immigrant nation.
what mexicans are going through or muslim americans are going through now or african-americans who feel fearful, that's exactly what we went through in the past. there are candidates from the irish background who ran for the presidency in the states in 1928, 1960, they suffered from anti-catholic sentiments. so when this anti-muslim sentiment or anti-jewish sentiment, we've been through them. for the irish names not around trump to understand that, as the irish leader of the 1800s said, they have lost their irish heart. >> we do forget history in this country unfortunately quite easily. but there was a time when the signs that used to say no blacks, no dogs, no irish. jewish people have been subject to it, irish people have been subject toile it. why do you suppose the u.s.' institutional memory is so short when it comes to some of these european communities? >> i don't know, i'm very much an outsider. i'm sure some of your viewers
are wondering why this guy from ireland is coming over to speak to your political system here and what's wrong with it. that's something for americans maybe to talk b i think our responsibility as irish people is grab st. patrick's day back from that white nationalist viewpoint and to present it as a celebration of immigration. if you're an irish american who is celebrating st. patrick's day or any sort of american who's celebrating st. patrick's day, you have to realize it's a celebration of an immigrant people here and what the irish went through in america is exactly what, as you say, mexicans or puerto ricans or whoever else is going through now. it's the same fight. it's the same story. and we left ireland to come here in coffin ships, which is exactly what syrians are doing now. coffin ships that went to the bottom of the ocean because they are so rickety. that's why we feel so passionate about it because it's a moment in history. an't let . patrick's day just be a parade, it haso a
stand and that's what we're doinon st. patrick's day. >> so i'm going to give you one more chance, who are some of the people that are going to be there? >> the riverside church in new york. we have gabriel burr, john king, richard schiff, a lot of african-american speakers, jewish american speakers, muslim american speakers. please go book your tickets. all proceeds go to the aclu. >> thank you for being here. this bannonism is racing and coursing through europe as well. >> bannon is an irish name. that's what's so depressing. >> will you take him back with you? thank you very much to senator riordian. appreciate it. more on the firing of preet bharara and jerry springer is in the house. more "a.m. joy" after the break. ♪ why do so many businesses rely on the u.s. postal service?
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promise was to mr. bharara, but i do know that other administrations have done the same thing, perhaps not in as abrupt a fashion, but that's what elections have consequences. so for people to complain about it, they're ignoring the history of new presidencies and i think the president had every right to ask for their resignations. >> senator john mccain, one of the lone republicans outspoken about trump weighs in on the firing of u.s. attorney preet bharara of new york's famed southern district, known as one of the nation's toughest prosecutors and the sheriff of wall street. bharara refused to step down after the president ordered 46 of the remaining u.s. attorneys appointed under president obama to step down on friday. but the context here is important. back in november, bharara walked into trump tower in manhattan to meet with then president-elect trump and his future boss, attorney general jefferson sessions. bharara walked out confident,
telling reporters that he had been asked to stay on. four months later, he was fired. bharara was also leading several investigations, including cases against russian money laundering, fox news and a corruption ring in turkey. trump tower was also in his jurisdiction. joining me now is joan walsh of the nation, yashara ali and ari melber, host of "the point" and e.j. dionne the "the washington post" who's also my co-author of "we are the change we seek." you actuallied interviewed preet bharara. >> i think any time a public servant elected by the people is arrested, it's a big deal. it goes to honesty and integrity in the state legislature. our job is to make sure we're upholding the rule of law. just because you are behind bars
doesn't mean you're beyond the constitution. >> ari, this is a prosecutor who had an impeccable record, had prosecuted both republicans and democrats. nothing seemingly overly partisan about him. how shocking was it that he was -- that the decision to let him stay was reversed? >> well, this entire thing has been somewhat unusual. what he was speaking about was prosecuting shelly silver, one of the most powerful democrats in the state. he was appointed by a democrat and it didn't seem to matter. you mentioned sdny. this office is not a normal office. they oversee wall street, deal with international issues, they deal with terrorism given the new york threat. it's a place that used to be run by jim comey. so a lot of strong people come out of here. i think what's usual is not the firing itself, it is this trump style, where one month you're in, you have the trump tower meeting, the next month you're suddenly out. "the new york times" reporting this morning president trump's
office attempted to make some last-minute calls to bharara, that he reported in as saying he's not supposed to have those kind of contacts now that he's serving. that adds another wrinkle. so this may be a story more of disorganization or a lack of focus on the white house than is any sort of legal controversy in the sense that they had the power. but it's also also story of the intrigue in trump world, reporting this morning via politico that attorney general jefferson sessions and white house chief strategist steve bannon of breitbart.com among others supported the decision according to senior officials familiar with the matter. >> this is something they do very well politically. we saw this with the call with the president of taiwan. they make the call, it gets out, causes all sorts of controversy and they say, well, the president has the right to -- because all this latitude when it comes to foreign policy. and so it starts to confuse the public because they don't know what to believe and not believe. in this case just like ari said, this was normal but the way they
did it was abnormal. so one of the things they have to look at if they want to be successful and i accept it's probably never going to change is you can do what you want, but you can't do it how you want to do it. you've got to fall in within certain norms. and you can't just go and do this. other administrations have fired the u.s. attorneys but they have given them time to find replacements. and so that people aren't just kicked out on the street over the weekend. >> and there are no replacements, e.j., which is one of the things that is bizarre about it. the improper call, which as "the new york times" pointed out on saturday is weird. but you also have this sequence of events where there was a letter sent to preet bharara four days before he was fired by the committee on responsibility and ethics in washington asking them to look into emoluments clause issues with donald trump. >> and as you pointed out earlier, trump tower is within his jurisdiction so it is something he could look into. if we only look at what we know
here, not what we're worried about, it' a real problem because because trump said he was going to keep him. now he's firing him. the defense the administration is putting out there is that, well, things were chaotic then and then he was close to chuck schumer and bharara is very close to chuck schumer, now he wants to punish schumer. so the administration in its defense is actually admitting that, a, the transition was chaotic, they're kind of throwing it on trump, and, b, that this is political payback for one of the most important prosecutorial jobs in the country. if they are willing to say that and push aside questions about the emoluments clause and other things he might be looking at, that only demands that we ask more questions. it's very odd. >> it seems like that's what they keep doing. they keep triggering more questions. >> they dig their hole deeper, definitely. yes, the idea that you would do this to punish chuck schumer is
sort of a corruption that we should not see in the meddling with the justice department. so the idea that that's their cover story is really insane. and i guess i don't want to go overboard with this, but the fact that he didn't resign, the fact that he -- this is a customary thing that people just expect that they're going to have to do. the fact that he insisted on being fired is telling us something. i just don't know what. >> and he opened a twitter account, which he didn't have until a week before. and he refuses to step down, essentially made them fire him. >> it raised a lot of eyebrows when he did that. he's sort of moving into the 21st century and wants to communicate directly and be the kind of u.s. attorney that he has been. he's been a very public one. he's done a lot of press conferences and -- because federal prosecutors don't end up in court a lot. so one of the things that i think is really interesting about this is who's going to be the replacement? mark mucasey's rumored to be the
pick for this office. he's roger ailes' lawyer. fox news is under investigation. he's also rudolph giuliani's favorite, they're partners at the same firm. how much impact will rudy giuliani have over this decision? probably a lot. >> we are going to hear more from preet bharara, there is no question. so joan raises an important point,hich i do the decision that he made, and he is a lawyer and he is careful, to insist on being removed rather than the customary resignation does that say something more about anything that he thought was inappropriate or a line he wanted to draw. his re-emergence on the internet is totally unusual. he posts up -- there's one of the tweets. he says on there i am a proud immigrant and patriotic american. this is eight days ago. he's had eight years where that was not part of his communication strategy. that doesn't mean again -- i want to be careful. it doesn't mean we know why. it just means something about eight days ago he started thinking about being public and that's something.
>> his first tweet was a picture of him and i believe chuck schumer on the -- it's the tenth anniversary of basically their bringing -- they're challenging the dismissal of eight u.s. attorneys by the bush administration that brought down alberto gonzalez. so that, you know, is very interesting too. again, we don't want to go too far, but he's telling us something. >> you don't need a magnifying glass to see there's something there. >> you can pick fights with some people and get away with it. bharara is somebody who will not go down quietly, who does have a lot of access to the press, who doesn't mind mixing it up with you. so they may have taken on yet another person that wasn't a very good idea to take on barack obama last weekend either. he may have taken on another person who is going to hit back and could hit back effectively. >> chuck schumer too, by the way. >> we didn't mention and i think you might have mentioned this, ari, the other person he's close
with. jim comey. >> chuck schumer has been very quiet. >> this is only just beginning. thank you, guys. for much more ari melber, tune into his show "the point" from 5:00 to 7:00 p.m. eastern right here on msnbc. it is must-see tv. always watch ari. very important. coming up next, donald trump, tm and springer. you don't want to miss that. boos it's about moving forward not back. it's looking up not down. it's feeling up thinking up living up. it's being in motion... in body in spirit in the now. boost. it's not just nutrition. it's intelligent nutrition. with 26 vitamins and minerals and 10 grams of protein. all in 3 delicious flavors. it's choosing to go in one direction... up. boost. be up for it. the markets change... at t. rowe price...
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especially in my business. with slow internet from the phone company, you can't keep up. you're stuck, watching spinning wheels and progress bars until someone else scoops your story. switch to comcast business. with high-speed internet up to 10 gigabits per second. you wouldn't pick a slow race car. then why settle for slow internet? comcast business. built for speed. built for business. i want you all to know we are fighting the fake news. it's fake, phony, fake. a few days ago i called the fake news the enemy of the people, and they are. they are the enemy of the people. the media is trying to attack our administration because they
know we are following through on pledges that we made and they're not happy about it. >> in donald trump's world, some media is okay, like world net daily, the birther website whose columnist kurt ellis trump just hired to work in the labor department. or supermarket scandal sheet "the national enquirer" whose ceo is one of trump's few-known friends. or news max, who's ceo has the inside line to what trump calls his very good brain. >> i would describe him as not being a happy camper. he was pretty upset. i hadn't seen him this -- with this level of anger about something in a long time, and he again reiterated what he said in the tweets. this is watergate level stuff. this is mccarthyism. it was very bad. >> and then there's the gossip rags, long a staple for trump, the new york celebrity
businessman, and now genuine presidential insiders. this week the president summoned harvey levin, founder of tmz, to the oval office for an hour-long meeting that included a tour of the lincoln bedroom. my next guest knows a thing or two about trash tv, the legendary talk show host jerry springer is here. jerry, jerry. hey, jerry, springer. >> thanks, joy. >> i ended on that harvey levin news and found it interesting, because just the same week last week, according to military times, donald trump had some veterans groups visit him. >> yes. >> they did not get -- not only did they not get a tour of the lincoln bedroom or visit to the oval office, trump didn't even show up but he manages to give harvey levin of tmz a full tour, including the lincoln bedroom. what do you make of that? >> well, the white house has a conflict. there is bannon, and bannon wants to delegitimatize the mainstream media because he -- bannon wants to do with the idea of a multi-cultural america and
the institutions that protect a multi-cultural america other than the courts are the free media, the press. and the press is the one that goes after president trump. so bannon wants to delegitimatize so he's not going to give any space to the regular media. but yet trump, the conflict is, trump on the other hand can't exist unless his name is in print, whether it's twitter, whether it's the tabloids. trump needs to see his name every single day. so his view of what the media is, is the -- either the tabloids or pop culture media, whether it's z or whatever it is. he can relate to that. that's his w to get to the people to see his name in print every day. but the mainstream media, he wants nothing to do with because their idea is to do away with mainstream media, to delegitimatize it, to make
people not believe it. >> you know, the interesting thing about what you say there, because there was all those studies during the campaign that showed that fake news sites were much more popular among trump voters than any supporters of any other candidate. >> sure. >> recently there was an entrepreneur, let's say, who created a fake news site with all sorts of right wing conspiracy news and they got a million likes on facebook like overnight. and that it's very popular. so for the bannons of the world, it is a good idea to stoke conspiracy theories, to hype sites like info wars, because that actually helped trump with his popularity. but the reporting is also that donald trump craves the respect of people like "the new york times." so these two things in a sense are in conflict because he wants the mainstream media to love him, right? >> right. but you see bannon and trump aren't on the same page of this. bannon has a philosophical goal and that is, as i said before, to do with a with the
multi-cultural america. he wants america to be basically christian and white. keep out the mexicans, keep out the muslims, et cetera. the only institutions left to make sure that we keep a multi-cultural society are the courts and the media. that's why they go after the courts and the media all the time. but trump, it's like a drug for him. so he can't get the mainstream media, because obviously they won't respect him. so, therefore, he goes to the things he can control. that's the tabloid journalism or the twitter account. so trump gets his drug and bannon gets the goal of doing away with mainstream media. >> and we're showing there trump sort of media inner circle. it is interesting the people he listens to a help him. alex jones of info wars, who is somebody to mo people is just a crazy person. but he is somebody that trump actually listens to and consumes. you've got sean hannity who could not be a bigger hype man.
he's sort of the flava flav to donald trump. you've got breitbart where they're hiring from. they're pulling people from breitbart and putting them in the administration. and then of course inside the administration, people like bannon, sebastian gorco, stephen miller, michael anton, and beyond that there's a conceit of putting right-wing media into the press pool. this week when mike pence went to try and sell tryancare, the pool reporter was not a reporter, it was somebody from the heritage foundation, the conservative think tank. in other words, the news the reporters received came from a journalist with a vested interest in that policy. >> this is all -- there's a method to all this madness. the bannon people want to, first, dismantle the state, the
government, by putting people in the cabinet who want to do away with their own departments, whether it's state department, epa, energy, all these departments. they put people in charge of to do away with it. then he wants to delegitimatize the courts or is challenging that. finally he wants to delegitimatize the media, so they're going to continue to go after the media, but trump, as i said, he needs to see his name in print and the only people that will keep giving him, quote, good press are either the tabloids or the twitter account where he controls it. so that's what is happening right now. >> i have to get your response to this, because this is not trash tv, this is actually a sunday show where we had one paul ryan, the speaker of the house, who is now really i think revealing more and more and more of the philosophy that trump has now signed on to, this philosophy about health care, just have to get your sort of policy hat put on for a moment. listen to this sound bite, paul ryan defending tryancare.
>> how many people are going to lose coverage under this? >> i can't answer that question. it's up to people. here's the premise of your question. are you going to stop man dating people buying health insurance. people are going to do what they want to do with their lives because we believe in individual freedom. >> he's essentially saying i don't know how many people will lose health care. we're just saying if you don't want health care, we don't care. but if you want to buy it, it's going to be a lot of money. we're just going to cut taxes for the rich and y'all are on your own. >> that is so disgusting. what is this business about people should have freedom. what kind of freedom do you have if you can't afford to take your kid to the doctor, that you can't afford to pay the medical bills, you're one doctor's visit away from growing bankrupt. that's not freedom. it doesn't give you freedom to make any decisions because oh, my gosh, i've got to have my family members live. i've got to get to a doctor before it's the emergency room. that's so indecent. i don't care if you're a liberal, conservative, republican, democrat, it's not
about that. it's about being a good human being. if you're a good human being, you've got to know that the first thing if you love america, is to love americans and make sure americans can get health insurance even if they don't have any money. that should be a guaranteed right. >> jerry, part of your gig is that you talk to ordinary people all the time. have you ever met anyone, let's say around age 60, who's willing to take an $8,000 cut in the money that they get to buy health care just so they can have the choice of a few cheapo insurance policies and would consider that to be a better option? >> my gosh, most of the people don't even get -- they're around $8,000 a year if they get that. it's a different world. trump has no idea about this and some of the people in congress, you know, what ought to make you angry is every one of us as taxpayers is paying for the health insurance of everyone sitting in congress and the senate. how dare these people saying my faliar el
family is taken reof, screw the rest of you. just remember what your mother told you when you were a little kid, you take care of others. >> at least paul ryan is admitting it now openly. jerry springer, it's always a pleasure to talk with you. thank you very much. up next, thousands protest donald trump's attack on the environment as his epa director wreaks havoc on america. stay with us. so with our ally cashback credit card, you get rewarded for buying stuff. like what? like a second bee helmet with protective netting. or like a balm? you know?
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many of the lofty promises donald trump made as a candidate have been grounded by the slow reality of governance but one key policy area that's already experiencing the consequences of a trump presidency is the environment. we got an early indication of the environmental future in trump's america when he put the environmental protection agency in the hands of this guy. climate change skeptic scott pruitt whose claim to fame before running the epa is suing the epa as a leading advocate against the agency. among the very few bills that donald trump has signed into law is the repeal of the stream protection rule.
the rollback of this regulation enacted in the final days of the obama regulation clears the way for coal companies, wait for it, to dump toxic waste into your streams and waterways. and before that, there was the executive order that resurrected the dakota access and keystone xl pipelines. such a priority that he signed it four days into his presidency. it was a heart-breaking defeat for the sioux tribe which had fought to block it from their land. but they made sure donald trump heard their objections when they led thousands to a protest march even stopping to build a tepee in front of trump's emoluments clause hotel. i'll have more, stay right there. he was 34% eastern european.
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>> we stand withsta standing ro >> we stand with standing rock. >> water is life, water is life. >> joining me now is someone who was at that protest. phyllis young is a member of the standing rock sioux tribe. also with me is jane kleb, moustafa ali and tom steyer. that you all for being here. phyllis, i have to go to you first. it's an honor to meet you in person. tell us about that protest. now that these pipelines have been approved, what was the goal of that protest at the white house? >> we did not want to get lost in the protest and we had to identify as nations who have
agreements with the united states at the highest level, treaties which are statutory, and which have requirements that have to be met, including damages and trespass. >> yeah. and,jane, the issue of trespass, i wa to focus on specifically, because you do have pipelines that are now approved because trump is in. these are not american projects. these are canadian pipelines being built with russian steel and indian steel that could seize american land. >> so these pipeline companies can use eminent domain for private gain. we think of it being used for public projects like roads. this is not only a private project but it's also a foreign corporation. i think this is a very dangerous road to go down. if we're saying canada is fine, which is owned by chinese and several other foreign interests as well. if we say it's fine for canada, what's not to say any other foreign country that may not be friendly with america tomorrow
is going to be using eminent dough tamai domain. we stand with the american steel workers that donald trump is lying about american steam. the farmers and the ranchers and the tribes, we're doing everything, standing shoulder to shoulder, because we are protecting the land and water for all the generations behind us. >> so many treaties have already been broken, not only with the standing rock sioux but all of the surrounding tribes. this is just one more. this time you all are saying no more. >> no more. next month we are having a constitutional treaty convention. we have 33 treaties with the united states from ohio, 90 million acres, and we are going to enforce the united nations, the vienna convention and push and shove to get and protect what is even all of america. >> you talk about all these alliances. until recently, you were heading an office that was about environmental justice for communities of color, who tend to be in the crosshairs when it
comes to the destruction of the environment, the air, the water quality. your thoughts on what's happening out west right now. >> i think it's actually a disgrace. our indigenous brothers and sisters have been for years trying to get traction, fighting for equality, and i think that it's time for us to focus on our most vulnerable communities and to honor their lives and to make sure that we are moving forward in a positive direction. we should not be having policy that is not beneficial, that helps people to move to a better place. >> and you left because you didn't -- i don't want to put words in your mouth. just tell us why you left that office. >> i left -- well, i actually led the environmental justice work for the entire agency. i left for a couple of reasons. one, because i felt that the values and priorities that i was seeing were not lining up with mine. actually in making sure that we were protecting our most vulnerable communities. communities of color, low income communities and indigenous
populations, and also the rolling back of regulations, which many stakeholders have been working for decades to have in place and to actually enhance those so they were more protective was another reason. and then, of course, the roll rollbacks of the budget or proposals to roll back the budgets, which would decimate the work that's been happening for decades. >> tom, i want to bring you in here because i think the bottom line is now that the environmental protection agency is led by somebody who fundamentally doesn't believe that the environment is in any jeopardy from increased oil an gas exploration, that there is no -- there is no threat to the life and health of americans because of it, because he doesn't believe that climate change is real. i want to let you listen to scott pruitt on cnbc recently talking about climate change. >> do you believe that it's been proven that co2 is the primary control knob for climate? do you believe that? >> no. no, i think that measuring with precision human activity on the climate is something very
challenging to do and there's tremendous disagreement about the degree of impact. so, no, i would not agree that it's a primary contributor to the global warming that we see. >> okay. >> we don't know that yet. as far as -- we need to continue the debate and continue the review and analysis. >> scott pruitt's own website at the epa, the agency he heads, describes the impact of humans and co2 on climate change. he doesn't even believe it's real. what do you do with that? >> i think that we -- joy, i think we've been way too polite. this man is outright lying. he is saying something that he knows is not true and he's contradicting his testimony for his confirmation from several weeks ago. so i don't think there's any question that what he's doing is selling out the american people on behalf of corporate oil and gas companies. and i think we have been very overly polite in trying to make it seem as if what he's doing isn't as egregious as it is.
these are just lies, and he's doing it intentionally to protect -- so he can go forward and not protect the american people but protect the bottom lines of oil companies. >> and he sued the epa when he was being paid essentially by oil companies. describe for people who don't get it, what would happen if the pipeline were to be breached, were to have an oil spill in that area. >> when you have an oil spill, you never clean it up. despite what the oil companies try to say. so it will permanently damage the soil, the water, people's property rights and treaty rights. we have oil spills from the 1970s in minnesota that we're still cleaning up. a rancher in north dakota's wheat field will never be able to be replanted again. for me we always talk about eating locally and all this other good stuff to do for climate change. we now have to start voting locally. we have a mayor -- a candidate running for omaha mayor and he will put in place a climate action plan for that city so we cannot rely on trump or pruitt
or anybody else. we have to start voting locally and start acting locally. we're going to put solar panels inside the proposed keystone xl route. if you're going to put this in, you're going to have to tear down clean energy, so bring it on. >> you fought on behalf of communities where power plants were going to be placed nearby and people thinking about the air quality and water quality of local communities. do people pay enough attention -- is the issue of environment too vague for people to zero in on, it means flint? >> i help people to urstand and the environmental justice movement in a whole, the stakeholders and the leaders that are there, that this is about people's lives. this is also about opportunity. so we have the impacts that are happening inside of communities and we have to address the public health that's happening there. it's also about revitalizing these vulnerable communities. bringing in positive aspects to help them move from surviving to thriving. >> tom, how do democrats get traction when most of these
projects are being done in red states where democrats cannot win and, therefore, republicans control what happens to the environment there and the voters keep putting them back in, even at the risk to their own air, water and soil? >> i think mustafa is absolutely right. this is the environmental protection agency, and what they're protecting is air and water and people's health. so when your air is bad and you get sick and people die, when your air is bad and people get asthma, when the water is bad and we see things like flint, there's an absolute reason that the american people need to be protected from companies that are going to pollute in ways that damage their lives and their children's lives. we also have a great chance to create good jobs by moving to clean energy, and that's something that everybody knows, but that's bad for oil and gas companies. >> and phyllis, i'm going to give you the last word on this. is it heartening for you and members of the tribe that you do
see this coming together across ethnic institutional state, national lines, in large part led by your fight against this pipeline? >> i'm very enlightened and i'm happy that america has -- is waking up. there's a new consciousness with the next generation nationwide. not only indigenous, but americans, young americans have a new mindset. and i'm very impressed by that. and so i believe that our treaty stat can create a social impact assessment methodology that could be used nationwide. >> well, here's hoping. thank you so much. this was a wonderful panel. phyllis, jane, mustafa and tom, hopefully you'll all come back. thank you all. coming up at the top of the hour, republican infighting over health care, could tryancare, trumpcare, whatever you want to call it, hurt the party's long-term prognosis?
up next on "a.m. joy" a new look at the kalief browder story. (vo) maybe it was here, when you hit 300,000 miles. or here, when you walked away without a scratch. maybe it was the day your baby came home. or maybe the day you realized your baby was not a baby anymore. every subaru is built to earn your trust. because we know what you're trusting us with. subaru. kelley blue book's most trusted brand. and best overall brand. love. it's what makes a subaru, a subaru.
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one of the things that we here at "a.m. joy" get asked about more than anything else by our faithful viewers is what can we do? well, my answer to that is usually the same. vote! especially in local and state elections. case in point. "dateline" st. louis, missouri. about ten miles from ferguson where michael brown was shot and killed by a then police officer in 2014. st. louis recently held a democratic primary to elect a new mayor. since st. louis is an overwhelmingly democratic city, the democratic primary is functionally the general election. the winner will almost certainly go on to be the mayor. the winner of this year was 64-year-old linda krewson. she won by a mere 888 votes, 32% to 30.4% over second place finisher tashara jones, a
44-year-old city treasurer who became a fixture of the black lives matter movement and was the favorite among the city's black majority. why did jones lose? because she split the black vote with four other african-american candidates, all men. while krewson who was endorsed by the police union didn't split her votes at all, dominating in majority white parts of the city. 888 votes. as jason johnson over at the root pointed out, st. louis, despite being a majority black city, has remained primarily in the hands of the white minority because whites have crossed party lines to coalesce to whatever white person is running for mayor. opportunitfo blac political advancement are few and far bween and this year's mayoral race was one of those chances. and it was missed, because of a lesson that today we'll call cut deals. progressive democrats and members of racial minorities are always better off cutting deals to consolidate power and win than everyone trying to advance
themselves at the expense of the overall cause. cut deals and win or everybody stay in the race and lose. there's also a lesson for you voters. the turnout in the st. louis mayor's race was 28%. 28. that's 4% more than voted the last time st. louis held a primary, but it's still just 28%. and before you think this lack of progressive strategery is just a st. louis thing, remember this guy? his name is sheriff david clark. he's not a fan of black lives matter, but he is a fan of donald trump, huge fan, and he loves guns. clark will be running for re-election in another primary that's functionally the general election in 2018 in milwaukee, wisconsin. the democratic primary. yes, sheriff clark routinely runs and wins as a democrat. because republican voters cross party lines to vote for him in the open democratic primary and groups like the nra pour money in to help him. and because milwaukee is an overwhelmingly democratic city,
surprise, he wins because he's the democrat. sometimes the republicans don't even bother to run a candidate. to sum up, one side is cutting deals and consolidating their votes and the other side is not. just something to think about. coming up next, the creator of the new series "time, the kalief browder story" and tod kalief's brother will join me. you do not want to miss it. blatche p i've found a permanent escape from monotony. fwlap our sens awake. our hearts racing as one. i know this is sudden, but they say...if you love something set it free. see you around, giulia
we see people watching it and people affected by it. i say this about the movie, it's hard to watch. >> i see -- i see the links before they air and every time i'm seeing them hundreds of times and still, it moves me the same way. >> this week i had a chance to be a part of of a panel where we discussed the time, kashgs alief broader. he was just 16 years old when he was arrested for allegedly
stealing a backpack and imprisoned without a conviction for three years at new york's notorious ryker's island and most of it spent in solitary confinement. >> you have the right to remain silent and refuse to answer questions. >> i had to get my story out. they said most likely we'll get you home, and then i never went home. >> ryker's island for three years over a backpack. >> i'm not going to say i did something just to go home. >> that's torture. no other word for it. >> kalief was my son. i know what he went through. >> walk away like it's okay? it's not took. >> ultimately kalief's case was dismissed and he was allowed to go home. the man who emerged was not the same boyho went in. he suffered fro depression and paranoia and kalief broader took his own life. his brother and creator of the documentary series and juliette
mason, thank you both for being here. >> we had a chance to meet the other day, the other night at this amazing town hall that jay-z and harvey weinstein put together for spike and, deion, it's such a difficult story to talk about, but your family has an incredible strength. i know you also watched your mom. how did what happened to kalief impact her? >> i think psychologically, she broke down. we've talked about how kalief was in solitary confinement, but when you think about it once kalief came home she put herself there, as well and mentally, she put herself into a room and never came out. when he passed away, it just intensified everything. i think the breakdown inside her heart, all of the emotion that she felt, it was very big and challenging for him to be in there and even more challenging to see what he was going through on the outside and even worse to sit there and to know that she found her own son hanging in the
backyard and it destroyed her life completely. >> what people need to understand is he was a kid, he was a child, and 16 years old. this is say family with seven children and some adopted siblings and birth siblings and this was a big family and it's not like you had $900 hanging around. >> with my father leaving it was really tough. my mother struggled to maintain the household with seven children and she tried to divide the money between each and every one of us and not included herself. the one thing she prided herself was taking care of her children without taking care of herself because she struggled growing up. there were moments we didn't have food and she wouldn't eat so she could take care of us and she made it her best effort to try to raise that money within the two weeks to try to get him out. >> julia, this was a mammoth undertaking and it's also sort of reminds y that when we talk about black lives matter.
kalief was generally not put in the hash tags because he didn't die in the encounter with police, but this is a far more common story and you're talking -- for a lot of people what was a small amount of money and it may have been $9 billion for a family that doesn't have it. how can it be this someone can spend three years in ryker's without being convicted of anything? >> it's incredible. working on this project i just learned that kalief's story is not unusual. the mass incarceration system in this country is a form of social and economic control and it's doing exactly what it's designed to do. >> for a young man like this there was an issue of stop and frisk. >> stop and frisk was rampant when kalief was arrested. 700,000 people in new york city were stopped. >> and the vast majority were black and hispanic. >> 9% were white. >> at the town hall, jay-z talked about his own experiences
growing up in new york. he seemed to really kind of relate to your family and to kalief growing up is stop and frisk something that other young men in the family have dealt with? >> yes, especially kamal, one of kalief's closest brother because they were so close with their relationship with each other and they would hang out with each other so a lot of the things they would do on the outside as far as teenage wise, they would get profiled and being outside late at night and just like the situation with kalief, walking from a party you can get stopped and get profiled off the basis of nothing. >> what kind of a kid was kalief before he went to ryker's? >> a big, bubbly boisterous personality and he wanted to dib and dab into everything and because he was the youngest and say look at me, this is what i can do. he was a fun-loving,
game-oriented person and always waed to wh his friends and wanted to be his sb lings and have that family moment. >> what makes this piece so powerful you are able to have kalief's voice in it and his mom and tell me about that experience and having them narrate their own story. >> we wanted to show this massive catastrophe of the criminal justice system on an intimate level so people could really feel his heart and soul, and your heart and soul as a family. >> what do you hope that people take away from watching this? >> this is a five-part series and part -- six-part series and part three will air, tell us when. >> it will air next wednesday at 10:00 on spike tv. >> what do you want people to get out of it? >> i want people to understand the criminal justice system and the ins and outs and how people think it's broken, but actually it's designed to do exactly what it's doing. >> and through kalief's eyes you can really feel the heart and soul of trying to humanize the
story. >> and his mom and his brothers and sisters, this is a family tragedy. >> yes. >> julia, thank you so much for being here. >> deion, it was such an honor to meet you. i met you and two of your brothers and your sister, just an honor for you to let the world into your family and to allow us to embrace you. our prayers and our thoughts and everything are with you. >> thank you. >> and the time the kalief broader story airs wednesday nights 10:00 p.m. on spike tv. you must watch it. be sure to join us next weekend for more "a.m. joy," the white house is facing a deadline to provide proof, any proof they've got of the wiretappings. thomas wolf at the top of the hour. three-quarters of what it takes to replace it. what are you supposed to do? drive three-quarters of a car? now if you had liberty mutual new car replacement™, you'd get your whole car back. i guess they don't want you driving around on three wheels.
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why do so many businesses rely on the u.s. postal service? because when they ship with us, their business becomes our business. ♪ that's why we make more e-commerce deliveries to homes than anyone else in the country. ♪ here, there, everywhere. united states postal service priority : you hi, everybody. i'm thomas roberts here at msnbc world headquarters in new york. high noon in the east, 9:00 a.m. in the west. proof wanted. new calls this hour for the president to clear up his claims that