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tv   The Last Word With Lawrence O Donnell  MSNBC  March 14, 2017 10:00pm-11:01pm PDT

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we'll see you again tomorrow. now, it is time for last word of lawrence o' donnel. >> rachel, you know normally at 9:00 p.m. i have some stuff to do to prepare for a 10:00 p.m. live tv show. all that stuff, i made sure it was done at 8:59 p.m. i got to watch every minute tonight. this has been an amazing revelation. i just want to point out you and i have mailboxes too. david cay johnson just got lucky in his mailbox today. >> send it to i am just saying. >> this goes to your point about why this may just be the tip of an iceberg of materials that could be discovered that way. if this was discovered that way, what else do people have out there that they might want to send to people's mailboxes. what we got here highlights how important a president's tax
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return can be and there are highlights of important questions by this president of his tax returns. >> all right, who are we kidding? >> you are not finished from this. come on over here. lets do a few more minutes on this. >> i will be more in a few minutes >> thank you, rachel. >> we'll continue our breaking news coverage of the tax documents that recently arrived in david cay johnston's mailbox, that's how we know this and that's how he got it. this information reveals the president's basic tax information of his 2005 return. and revealing -- tax returns like this is something that all presidential candidates and presidents normally do. they just release this, this is not breaking news for any other presidential candidate. it has been a white house ritual for the president and the vice
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president to release their tax returns in the first or second week of april as april 15th approaches. the tradition is for the president to always release his tax returns before tax day, before april 15th showing exactly how much he's paying on how much tax he's paying on how much income he's earned. these are the trump's documents filed jointly with the first lady. we see it every year with the president and the vice president. we see the president and vice president paid their taxes on time and they are encouraged enough to do the same thing. this year, we may see of the vice president maintaining that tradition and while the president continues to refused handing tax information. here is what donald trump, the candidate, had to say about releaing his tax returns. >> i pay hundreds of millions of
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dollars in taxes but, but as soon as my routine audit finished, i will release my returns. >> i will be proud to. >> i am under a routine audit and it will be released. as soon as it is finished, i will release it. >> a routine audit. from the first emergen of the audit excuse, we have pointed out on this program that there is absolutely no proof and never has been proof that any of donald trump's relevant tax returns are being audit. audits begin with a letter from the irs. donald trump has never produced that letter, i have requested that letter from the trump campaign. if he's audited, he would have that letter. it would tell us very much at all. still, even that letter would not prove that donald trump was still being audit.
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it would only prove that an audit was commenced on a certain date and that audit might or might not still be going on. there is no reason to believe that donald trump is being audited if he will not even release the foreign letter that commences an irs audit. you just heard donald trump says he paid hundreds of millions of dollars in taxes. that's really important. lets listen to that one more time. >> i pay hundreds of millions of dollars in taxes. >> tax information revealed of donald trump tonight shows nothing like that. >> joining us now with the facts. david cay johnston, of a nonprofit news organization covering the trump administration and also with us rachel maddow, post of the rachel maddow show.
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>> you tweeted around 8:30 that you have this. the only previous information that we have from donald trump about how much he pays in taxes and how much he pays is what we just heard -- hundreds of millions of dollars that he pays in taxes? >> we don't know what this indicates about other years. one of the things david has been able to document over the years is he found when he was looking over trump's businesses, casinos. >> negative income. >> one year and next year, you know you have to watch things like big losses that he takes over a number of year.
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this year, we have just been published tonight. you see him carrying over a hundred million dollars of a previous year's loss, that explains a lot about how he's able to minimize tax burdens over the years. this raises more questions. >> 1995. this is our only 21st century information. on that $100 million loss that's on here. there is nothing we see in these pages that identifies what that $103 million loss is. >> no. the first reasonable thing to assume that the $918 million tax shelter that donald bought which should be $900 million income and convert it under a deal of republican shut down.
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they heard about it and let him keep his deal, him and others. if this is the residue of it, that means he was able to write off an average of $81.5 million a year for the previous ten years. >> the white house's statement tonight suggests there are additional new tax laws in there. perhaps, tax incomes are higher than $81.5 million a year. it is $38 million. >> that includes his self employment payroll tax and most of it is medicare and income tax. a lot of money. lets stick to the right number. >> lets go to the white house here. this is the white house's response that they put out before your broadcast. before being elected president, mr. trump was one of the most successful businessman in the world with a responsibility on an income of more than $150 million, as well as paying tens of millions of dollars.
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now, you know, i could not keep a straight face on that part. >> he pays taxes every time he buys milk duds. >> so he pays the gasoline taxes, too. >> no one mentions that. >> he does not have to pay jeff fields taxes. >> so, after he gets doing that about paying sales and excess taxes and employment taxes and this illegally public return proves just that. it is totally illegal to steal and publish tax returns. the dishonest media continues to make this their agenda as the president focuses on his which includes tax reforms that'll benefit all america. one of this things that he has
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been hiding. he knows it is illegal and it is a crime for the irs to review anything of his tax information, including a crime of them to review that he's being audited. he's been able to say that i am being audited and i pays hundreds of millions of dollars. the people who handles those returns at the irs cannot say anything publicly. the other people are accountants who are worked for trump. david, you got this in your mailbox. i did not hear you stole it. donald trump says you stole this. >> there is nothing illegal about this. i am disappointed of the statement of sean spicer was dishonested -- if i go to somebody and say hey, give me your tax returns from your
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accountant firm and i publish it, that's a different story. i got this over my home. and, suggestion that it is illegal for the public is nonsense. remember to donald trump, he lives in a world where in the judge screws with him, bad judge. donald sees himself and talks about the presidency as a dictator. >> calling this a dishonest media in this statement, there is nothing dishonest about this. there is nothing dishonest about this publication or nor would they accuse us. >> we are all journalists and on the look out for somebody trying to sucker us into something. when we got there and david got this and puts this on
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television. you said to the white house and we sent it to the white house, verify it to us. they did not come back and saying it is not true. they verified the income and the terms of it and the tax paid. they essentially verified the documents and calling us dishonest at the same time. had this been a fake document, nobody would publish it. they give it to us and they pub lished it and insulted us. that's not at all in keeping of the facts that this is brought to the public. >> one thing they did not say is this is dishonest, he pays hundreds of millions of dollars in taxes. they did not argue. they adopted it in the statement as much as you are asking for of this being the real thing. >> can we go one other thing on
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this audit issue. trump has said and i am being audited so i cannot point out on my taxes. david, one of the things you pointed out even if that were true, even if we decided that you could not release tax returns, is it basically impossible that donald trump's tax returns from the 1970s and 1980s and early 2000s, these are all old and still unaudit? >> there is no statues of limitations. >> trump's lawyers, of the most art full written legal letter that i have read in my life says that he was under audit. >> they never used the word "audit." i think we can assume that 2008 and earlier there is no audit >> well, i would love to see that. that's when he was giving that $95 million for that house.
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>> when you submit your tax return, you signed of an under personality of jury. i say everything of this return is true of the best of my ability. releasing the audit does not have anything to do with it. you made your collect realization under oath that it is real. >> either we have a president that violates itself and concerns of what we found out or sources of income or obligations to people that bring into questions of his integrity and loyalty. i am frankly having been covered him are concerned onoth of those. we have an absolutcontempt for the democratic process in the white house. i don't see any other options here. >> the notion that if we got the rest of this, this return, by the way, could have hundreds of pages. >> 500 or 150 pages easy.
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>> to backup all the things that are in here. we still may not necessary ly know real sources of income and if not all of it, passes through companies that he owns. that company can pass it to another company that he owns and what shows up in terms of the origin inside here some where, 200 pages down there. it maybe not be the actual. >> we have a much better road map, we may not have a full picture, absolutely >> one of the straightforward lines here that's interesting is number 7 where he talks about he gets -- he has wages and salary income which is unusual for his case. it is about a million dollars. >> could be hers. his wife is a model. she's on here. she was never at that league of business. >> no. >> that could be -- >> his television income could have been paid that way. even that, most of that is paid through personal corporations. >> that's the one that you saw
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the documents for that. >> the executive producer, he may have gotten both the salary and a profit chair in the program. but, we don't know what that was for. >> can you stay for a little here. eventually, i want to go line by line. >> that's great. >> i cannot resist this. >> stay with us, we'll be right back with more of this continuing breaking news coverage of the new tax documents revealed tonight on rachel's show, david cay johnston received in his mailbox. that's the news tonight, we'll be right back. (alarms) where's the car? it'll be here in three...uh, four minutes. are you kidding me? no, looks like he took a wrong turn. don't worry, this guy's got like a four-star rating,
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it was arrived from johnston's mailbox. here is what donald trump jr. had to say next. ooh... >>psst. hey... where you going? we've got that thing! you know...diarrhea? abdominal pain? but we said we'd be there... woap, who makes the decisions around here? it's me. don't think i'll make it. stomach again...send! if you're living with frequent, unpredictable diarrhea and abdominal pain, you may have irritable bowel syndrome with diarrhea or ibs-d - a condition that can be really frustrating. talk to your doctor about viberzi. a different way to treat ibs-d.
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we heard him say no one cares about it except rachel maddow and david cay johnston. >> 74% says he should release his tax returns. 74% of americans. 18% say should not and 8% no opinion. >> 74% wants to see the information that you present tonight and as i said at the break there.
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he has tweeted saying, thank you, rachel maddow for providing to your trump hating -- followers, how successful that donald trump paid 40 millions in taxes. donald jr. forgets that his father says he paid hundreds of millions in taxes. >> there are very few people and even among trump haters in the world for who he hates about them -- whether or not there ises hate is involved here. and honestly, there is a reason why more than 70% of the country wants to see these tax returns. it is not a belief that you catch donald trump. i think the reason people want to see this because they are worried that their president maybe acting without royalty. we never should have to worry
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about that, in the 1700s and the 1900s and this century. we never have materials caused to worry about that. this is the one that he won't let us see his finances. that's the problem. if you want to make it about me and hatred and the petty concerns here, go for it. you are missing the point. >> you took us on a tour of the possibilities of divided loyalties in this administration. the entire story as to why these returns of, this president's returns are the most important in history because we need to know what his financial dependence maybe in russia and elsewhere. >> there are a number of financial ties that he has, business partnerships that raised concerns. i only did some of them, we did not talk about indonesia or
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south america. >> even if you just -- just look at the focus of of a long new yorker piece recently, it is really easy to absorb. the trump family and the organization, how to partnership there of the family of a notoriously corrupt government official. it made no sense of financial grounds. the people who they were partnered with have partnered with the iranian revolutionary guards and are profoundly flagrantly corrupted. >> there is a legal under the corrupt act to take income from corrupt sources, to take income to be involved in business partnerships or bribes and etc. there are something bigger of the -- we have a problem on criminal grounds and national
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security grounds and in terms of leverage. if either of those things are true, his potential susceptible to blackmail on that subject is mind blowing in terms of what et mean is in our country, alone and in the world. that's why you see this president's tax returns. it is not because of some vanity of how rich he is, it is because of our country and our security. >> and david, the other thing you can get out of this is there are some public information, rachel has talked a couple of times about this russian. >> we would love to see in tax files how that game was treated. we would love to be able to see, is it the amount that is publicly reported on it. is it some smaller amount and why would it be smaller amount.
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all of that lives inside these documents. >> the deal and inspected by palm beach had been done by a city councilman. if i can -- >> you over paid the politicians for real estate. >> you are trying to hide money from your wife, you don't want to over paid. >> donald trump jr. 's tweet. i don't hate donald trump. i find him end lessly fascinating that's why i paid attention to him over 30 years. donald trump has chosen to run for office. if donald trump jr. paid attention in 8th grade civic, he would know that it is our duty to tell the truth about our elected leaders. by his standard, the homicide detective hunts down the killer and hates the killer.
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>> i don't care who the killer is, all i care is the person that i catch is "the killer." that's the issue. >> rachel, what are you hoping for in the next chapter of this coverage? >> that's a good question. >> um -- i think that we should focus in part on the fact that this document somehow made its way to david's. we should know that if the trump administration and the credibility of these is predicated in parts on these documents being invisible anymore. if the president wants the american people to believe him in terms of his finances, he better hope that his tax do you means to back him up on that. this is not the last that's
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coming out. the more we learn about this, the closer we'll get to the truth about his foreign entanglement explains of what just happened in our election. >> this race is in the trump tax legislation that's coming up. how does he benefit? >> oh, he makes it out like a bandit. we'll pick this up after the break. rachel, thank you very much for joining us tonight and thank you for staying late. i knew you had a few more things saying about it. >> we are going to be right back with david cay johnston and more details on what we discovered in these summary pages of donald trump's 2005 tax returns. at ange
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we are back with our breaking news begun with rachel maddow when he revealed donald trump's federal income tax returns. david cay johnston is still with us. he had those documents delivered to him and he had no idea where it came from, they ended up in it came from, they ended up in his mailbox. he was able to provided them tonight to rachel and us. the dnc issued a statement now in response to what has been revealed tonight on msnbc. the white house's willingness to release some tax information when it suits them proves donald trump's audit excuse is a sham.
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>> the only reason to not release his returns is to hide what's in them such as financial connection with the russians and kremlin. to my surprise, the dnc has made an interesting point because i did not think they would. in the white house's statement tonight, they accepted all the numbers that are in the release return pages. that seems to indicate that they are in effect saying this israel. this is really it. why would they would be willing to do that on the rest of these returns or any returns? >> i guess there is nothing to lose at this point.
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>> but, david, the dnc's point -- they said there are audits. >> there is no proof there is an audit. >> i remember here of the fifth amendment rule and invoke the fifth amendment rights and not testify. when i want and when it is convenience or useful to me, i will put out a number. they inflated how much he paid in taxes. i had figured this almost certainly of the residue of his dubious tax shelter that we talked about on the show previously. the statement from the white house referred to $103 million in losses reported on his return as being at least in part because of construction.
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that's the phrase they used of construction expenses. >> what does that tell us? >> i don't understand why it would be there, that was the net loss that's left in the '90s. the income he shows would have been reduced from those things. >> well, he was making a lot of money and he apparently -- >> his what? >> his net loss. >> it turns out that's not true. we never quite new if he wanted to keep the tax returns or if he was paying taxes or was not. now, we know a little more than that. and david, it is hard for us to
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know whether this was a good year for donald trump. >> was this the peak or the high point? >> well, where was it? >> we do know that he had a dubious tax shelter that the republicans shut down of 918 million. no more than 103 million of that was left. that implies of the previous ten years where he was writing off of 81.5 million a year that he had $85.5 million income or each year to write off against it. but, is there anything professor that you can see where donald trump's statement is present tense. i pay hundreds of millions of dollars in taxes. what we are seeing here is $38 million in taxes. >> well, if you times it ten years. >> some slacks there, lawrence. >> that's donald -- the words that you get from donald, i think you mean over the years.
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>> and based on what we are saying here. that's possible that he's paid that much over the year and certainly going forward from there, what do we know, david about his businesses and the successes of his business and going forward of 2005. have the years between now and 2005 been good to him? >> that we don't know, we know from his own lawsuit to get out of a $40 million loan. the year 2008 was a terrible year for him >> he's heavy on branding. he made most of his big deals in places where they are not commercial transactions that we have in america. >> donald trump does businesses in germany or france with the exception of golf courses. he dos it in places like dubai. >> what does it mean of the integrity of our tax system that
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the presence of the united states refused of what has be came the presidential's tradition that this is how i am participating and here is how much i make and pay. our tax relies on people's believes and integrity so that they behave importantly. >> it is very important. nixon is the one that made the rules. >> professional daniel and david cay johnston. thank you for joining us on this important news. >> coming up, this is a fascinating situation. steve bannon, why is he steve bannon still attacking paul ryan when donald trump is trying to do business with paul ryan? (vo) this is not a video game.
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what does steve bannon want and why is briet bart attacking paul ryan. >> he has released a secret audio of paul ryan back during the campaign after the "access hollywood" video of donald trump bragging of sexually assaults. paul ryan telling his republicans that he would abandon donald trump. lets listen to this. >> his comments are not anywhere in keeping with our party's principles and values. >> there are basically two things that i want to make really clear and as for myself as speaker, i am not going to defend donald trump, not now and not in the future. i am not going to be campaigning
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with him the next 30 days. >> today paul ryan defended those comments. he did campaign with mike pence. listen to this. >> look, donald and i had our ups and downs but we merged forward at the end of the campaign. i campaigned with mike pence and since then we have been working hands and gloves together. this is a ancient history and i am surprised it is a story. >> why is breitbart doing this, why is it attacking the trump's healthcare bill? >> it is steve bannon's breitbart. that's next. people would ask me in different countries that we traveled, what is your nationality and i would always answer hispanic.
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we are back with doctor howard dean and our former vermont and our josh marshal in "talking points". steve bannon, you would expect the breitbart coverage that is positive stuff. breitbart is hammering the trump bill. breitbart is still hammering paul ryan and paul ryan is supposed to be donald trump's friend which raises the question what is bannon up to? what does he want? does he still want paul ryan out of there? does he not want this healthcare bill to pass and why would he not want it to pass? >> my theory is one -- i hate these kinds of theories. .
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>> this is a theory segment tonight. >> breitbart, he's got a grip on trump. he's got this twisted wed and intellectual laying out in the world which is bizarre. >> he cannot be the only one -- this is gross speculations and everything i have been saying about donald trump a year and a half. >> that's why you are here. >> you get ten years for that. >> josh, we heard fairly reliable that white house staff, trump's campaign staff have attempted to speak to donald trump as the candidate or as the president through the media and they go on shows and tweets and they do different things. bannon has the closest next to media at breitbart where he's empowered to give him a call, you know what, it will be great if you guys would really kill ryan or kill a healthcare bill.
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>> am nosu that -- i don think bannon is controlling breitbart anymore. it is tenuous now. my own sense based on some knowledge is i don't think bannon really does not care about this healthcare bill. now, he may cares about it. he's a big person in the white house and he wants the white house to succeed. this is not a policy that he cares about terribly one way or another. i think what is happening with breitbart is not so much. i don't think they see this as attacking trump. the people at breitbart and there is always been people who hated paul ryan and a lot of other conservative near trump now that they think that ryan has screwed this up and leading trump into a trap. >> if you are breitbart and you are a trump fan, do you think you are doing trump a favor by a couple of things. >> this hurts too many people.
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that i think is true. >> i mean when trump was campaigning. he specifically said, of course, it is all over twitter and reminding him that we'll not cut your medicaid or medicare and we'll make sure that everybody has health insurance. it is been repeated a zillion times. now, he attaches himself on what he can get through the house. there is a lot of ideal -- he cannot control his caucus because he cannot get anything done. >> we have seen trump's world get on the phone and called up networks and called up the new york times.
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here is bannon with the closest of any media out there. >> that's hard to deny that. >> again, i think that the people at breitbart, i am not sure they're quite as strategic as you were suggesting. >> these are people who like to blow things up. paul ryan is someone they want to blow it up for a long time. you can see right now, you have defections to the left in the republican senate and defections to the right in the republican house. that does not look good. paul ryan is supposed to be like mr. policy guy and a lot of them seeing it like, you really screw this up, they want to, you know, blow on it. >> can i get josh's opinions on
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the mercers and what they had to do and where are they and what's going on here? >> they're big funders. >> i am not sure healthcare is a hugest thing to them either. they are investing and killing. >> all right. >> we are running out of time. josh marshal, howard dean, i cannot extend these. >> highly scripted. >> we got to break it here. >> lyndsey graham wants to hear from the fbi on exactly what evidence they have of donald trump's accusations of wiretaps and lyndsey graham says he has a way of getting that information. this is the silverado special edition. this is one gorgeous truck. oh, did i say there's only one special edition? because, actually there's five. ooohh!! aaaahh!! uh! hooooly mackerel. wow. nice. strength and style. it's truck month.
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both members of the judiciary committee sent a letter asking for copies of any
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warrant applications and court orders related to wiretaps of president trump and trump tower and here is what senator graham said today. >> we are having a hearing about russia and you need to come to that hearing because i am going to make an announcement about the letter and let the fbi know they are about to screw up big time. if they keep on running into the intel committee and not answer that letter. >> there are reports tonight that senator white house has indicated that fbi director comey may reveal tomorrow the status of any investigations involving donald trump's and russia. >> we'll have more on that next.
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we are joined now by the author of the new book, tom nicolls, "the death of expertise." >> one is this demand, reveal to us anything you have on wiretaps from the justice department and the fbi. if they get full disclosures from justice and the fbi on that.
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will that tell the story for more possibility? >> it is hard to say of what they are looking for because the original charge was so remarkably fantastic that it is like people are filling the content behind here. i think that's part of the problem so when they are asking for something like that does not exist at this point because of the nature of the president's initial tweet. >> yeah, the tweet saying just discovered president obama was tapping his phones at trump tower. and the "just discovered." it is a saturday morning, he just discovered it. lets assume it was latlast night or friday night, who would that be?
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who could possibly have delivered to him this information that he "just discovered"? >> television? >> breitbart? the internet. you cannot imagine anyone in the president telling him this and no one but the president would know it. >> i find it hard to believe. it would require somebody
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knowing that the previous had engaged in illegal activity and holding onto that and letting the president know at 6:30 in the morning, i suspected was something that we don't know. it is amazing of how much time we spent deconstructing -- >> there are reports of others making reference to it that donald trump may have picked that up. that maybe what he was talking about. >> that seems to be the timing of where it came from in the day or two beforehand. >>. >> did you expect there comes a time of investigators mechanism that are operating right now? there will be a day where there will be announcement that donald trump is not telling the truth? >> i don't think that's ever going to come. >> what you are going to get is an announcement that says question found no evidence which is the way investigations always end. there is no evidence that the investigation is closed but again, hard to fill in a charge that came out of nowhere and this is of the 3 million illegal voter and campaign fraud and people looking into it enough times then it overwhelms. >> tom nichols. thank you for joining us. the name of the book again? >> "the death of expertise." >> we'll talk more about that. "the 11th hour" with brian
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what he earned and paid and what the white house is saying about all of this tonight. >> we can be hours away from those answers of trump wire allegations. >> now reporting on how the president's allies are urging into blame healthcare problems on the speaker of the house and called the whole thing ryan care. "the 11th hour" begins now. good evening once again from our head quarter here in new york of day 54th of the trump administration. while we'll get to the politics on this day of an hour long special edition tonight. the big news was made when the rachel maddow program revealed


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