tv Hardball With Chris Matthews MSNBC March 23, 2017 4:00pm-5:01pm PDT
anyway, thank you for joining us. >> thank you, thank you for watching us. see you back here tomorrow night 6: p.m. eastern. weill all over it. first, "hardball" with chris matthews starts right now. >> loser, for hardball. >> good evening, i'm chris matthews in ug what. this is a city sacked by barbarians right now, nothing stands where it did before t. chairman of the house intelligence committee has a political commitment of a first aid trying desperately to pannish the president's first inflicted wound. he claimed his predecessor hijacked him, nunes turns out not to be a big enough bandage,
nothing comes back clean, a sick president obama wiretapped him during the campaign, by the way that trump claim obama was sick was in quotes. it wasn't in quotes, really, he maents it. still hasn't taken it back, much less apologize for it. meanwhile, the president's health care bill, trumpcare lies in frav condition, pulled from the schedule. a youeuthanasia, there was no w it was going to survive this gang of obamalisionists is going to suffer. they will plot the way forward? maybe, he came into office with a pre existing condition, himself, he had no idea of how to replace obamacare, the schedule proves that, we gin with fallout from devon nunes' mad dash from the white house. he ran past the members of his own committee on his way to multiple press conferences on a meeting with the president.
he should when he called alarming new information that trump associates were picked up on under surveillance of foreign officials. nunes was asked about his reactions today. >> reporter: why did you find it important then to go to the president? >> just a judgment call. i mean, it was my -- where there was a lot going on yesterday, and it was a judgment call on my part and at the end of the day, you know, sometimes you make the right decisions, sometimes you make the wrong one, but you got to stick by the decisions you make. >> well, the bizarre spectacle left many wondering if he and the congressman was coordinateing with the white house, twice today, he refused to answer this question did he get this nugget and show him his nugget he got from the white house? here's his reaction. >> it's a cost on the white house. >> as you know, we have to keep our sources and methods here very, very quiet.
>> i'm not going to, look, on this, this committee, wree not going to ever reveal sources or if not whose ever going to come down to the committee. >> at the briefing today, sean spicer diverted questions about why nunes did what he did. instead, he told reporters they should investigate his claims. >> there seems to be this obsession with the process, you know, how did he get here? when did he go? what was the reaction? at some point there should be a concern about the substance. that's a very serious revelation that he's made about what happened during the 2016 election with respect to our side and some of the things that happened. at some point i would implore, urge, beg, some of you to use your investigative skills to look into what actually did happen? why did it happen? what was going on back there? who knew what? when? >> well, president trump also seemed to celebrate the assist from his former transition
official nunes. here's what he told "time" magazine yesterday. unbelievable. now, joining me right now is u.s. congressman mike quigley, the director of the national security and a former staffer on the intelliience committee. congressman, let's just try to recall before our heads get fogged up by what's coming from the white house. it's very clear that getting up at dawn in mayorr a lag go, president trump tweeted, tick president obama had him wiretapped during the campaign at trump tower.
despite the smoke from nunes, your chair, none of that has been challenged. none of that has been conflicted with. >> that all stands as his ridiculous claim he cannot back up. how do you stand? >> this is a two-prong campaign of obstruction and distraio it began with that tweet. i suspect after he read something in breitbart and i think the second element of that was what you saw yesterday with chairman nunes is an attempt to distract from what is obvious that there was no wiretapping. and to what mr. spicer said today, they should investigate this? i don't believe the chairman suggested that anything in his undocumented allegation was illegal. he was talking about the possibility of incidental collection. so i'm not sure why anyone would investigate that and they'd want to investigate why we needed extraction. >> do you think mr. nunes can conduct a non-partisan investigation of anything now having shown his loyalty to the
white house in the way he did yesterday? >> well, it makes it far more difficult for him. he has to overcome this assumption he has a different master than a chairman of this important investigation. i have to be fair the first two years that i have served with him, he has been a good chairman. he's run his meetings very well. ever since mr. trump has become president, though, unfortunately, it's been a different story. >> you know, there is a civics lesson we all are lucky enough to get in high school if we go to a decent school and get a good civics class, which is hard to do these days, you understand the checks and balances, it's the job of congress not to obey the president but to watch him and make sure he does a good job of operating the executive branch. does nunes know that or play st. bernard to the president when he's in trouble? >> unfortunately, this comes on the hooes of comey announcing there is an investigation of the trump campaign and the russians. so this becomes at the worst
possible time. i can't stress enough. this is the most important investigation of a president in our history since watergate. the rson investigating it has to bf an open mind and has to understand he cannot serve the president, he's a member of congress. >> where is your district, sir? >> i think wrigley field north side of chicago, western suburbs. >> oh, rossi's old seat. >> absolutely. >> good for you, that's the place you 35 with all the nice polish churches on the way from the game. here was senator john mccain today. >> can you explain any reason why chairman nunes would have done what he did yesterday? >> no, i have not seen anything like that and i'm happy to say that in the senate intelligence committee, there is a good working relationship between senator byrd and senator warner, no, i have not seen anything like it and it's very disturbing. >> it looks to me like what
happened yesterday is that mr. nunes had been serving well in a non-partisan capacity. and that the white house didn't like that. and they put some heat in his saddle. lfrls he go all of a sudden he goes down to -- it is not challenged, certainly it doesn't support the president's claims he was wiretapped by a sick president obama. none of that is confirmed by this thing he claims he has. but he looks like he is pretty much working for the president right now. >> i think that's absolutely right and peopleorget that en nunes talks about the wiretapping of the tmp transition team the person ahead of the national transition for the trump administration was de'jon nunes, he has been on both sides of this thing from the beginning. so now as the committee chairman, he is grading the work as national chairman he was putting together as the hollywood of the national transition. >> have you ever seen this before? >> never. >> congressman schiff told us
yesterday the evidence of collusion is now more than circumstantial. it's the big part t. possible connection between trump and the russians who are helping him. let's watch. >> but you had mit it's -- all you have right now is a circumstantial case? >> actually, no, chuck. i can tell you that the case is more than that. and i can't go into the particulars, but there is more than circumstantial evidence now, so, again, i think -- >> so you have seen direct evidence of collusion? >> i don't want to go into specifics, but i will say that there is everyday that is not circumstantial and is very much worthy of investigations. >> congressman, do you go on more than circumstantial evidence at this point? >> as an old trial attorney,ize say there is probable cause to believe there was coordination. >> thank you so much. u.s. congressman mike quigley. >> i am joined right now by senator marc warren, the ranking
member of the senate intelligence committee. former president joe biden tweeted, senator, devon nunes, quote, checks and balances the chair and the committee having itting the white house can share info, mccain is right, need select committee. where do you stand on the need for a select committee, senator? >> listen, i think the senate committee is doing its job in a bipartisan way. i think a special prosecutor, i am wide opened with that. my concern would be both sides would ends up picking their most partisan men members, would take them months, we are having a public hearing next week. we started interviews, we got a lot of folks that we got to talk to. we got to get some additional information from a couple of the agencies, but we are doing this in a way i think that is methodical and we will follow the intel wherever it leads and candidly, i was surprised as everybody else was about what
mr. nunes did yesterday. >> would you call that partisan or non-partisan, we still don't know whether he got that information from the white house, do we? >> we don't have the slightest idea. and i can tell you, we had an intel meeting this afternoon, my chairman, richard bur, he didn't have any knowledge of what talking about. we've reached out to a couple of the agencies, said, hey, there is something you shared with nunes, you need to share it with us as well. they all have kind of a response of saying, they don't know what he's talking about as well. so i think it will be numbered upon mr. nunes at some point to tell somebody, i hope, other than whoever he told at the white house what kind of information he's talking about. >> senator, it's not sinking into me how nunes in anyway is a fig leaf for what the president put out in his tweet a couple weeks ago. it had nothing to do with his campaign, certainly president obama, it wasn't ordered by oblame orabaum or a wireta-- ob
wiretap. >> i don't see what the connection or the nexus is at all. all i know is until the other day, you had both the house republican and democrats saying, no wiretapping. our position has still been the same. no wiretapping by the obama administration or anyone else of trump tower. you had the director of the fbi speaking on behalf of the fbi and the whole justice department and you had the head of the nsa saying no such thing. then even when the white house tried to say, well, let's blame it on the brits, which is, frankly, insulting to our strongest allie, they pushed back as well. i just don't understand why the president won't acknowledge he is wrong or prove with some evidence other than tweets what he's talking about. >> what do you make of the russian connection, i have been sort of kidding about it. because it's gotten ridiculous
the number of connections between the trump team and moscow. it's all over the place, now we get this $10 million contract paul manafort had. it's not illegal but it was entangling when he gets to be the chair of the campaign. >> here's what we know for a fact. we know there was massive russian interference in our election in an unprecedented way. we know they hacked into the dnc, john podzesta leaked that on a selected bamps. we know they had a thousand so-called internet trolls who were, in effect, manipulating computers in the united states creating a bot-net, in some ways, overwhelming the search engines. we know for a fact the republican platform changed in only one way from romneyland and that was a way that was more favorable towards russia and less favorable to ukraine. and one of the questions that we've got to answer is, we've got this cast of characters that have to varying degrees ties
with russia. we got roger stone, for example, who said he talked to wikileaks, he predicted the modesta e-mails, said he was in direct communication with gucifer, too. again, i don't know where all this leads. but if the white house has any credibility at all and they want to remove this cloud, they ought to support our investigation so we can get to the bottom of it. >> can you imagine? i'm speculating here with you, you have been through this. if you had campaign contributions coming in people helping europe campaign as volunteers, say, working hours after hours for your campaign. you got people like that. you met with him, you never thanked him. is it even plausible that the trump people didn't thank the russians for helping them? it even imaginable, hey, thanks, buddy, it's been very helpful. we like the way you have done this. we will remember this later. excuse me, it doesn't sound right. >> it doesn't sound right. it doesn't sound right that then
candidates trump basically invite study russians to hack into the clinton e-mails. i mean. >> he says, help me more, help me more. >> some of this you can't make up. >> i know. >> again, he's the president. we owe him the benefit of the doubt. we got to do this. that's why we got to do the bipartisan, because no matter what we come up with, there will be a whole lot of americans that don't believe our report unless we are atransparent and keep it bipartisan. >> what would be the big surprise, there is nothing there in terms of a reciprocity to do what the russians did to get them elected or this is something? what would be a bigger surprise? nothing or nothing or something? >> you know, i know where you are headed. i'm not going to answer that at this point. all i can say, i thought there was nothing that this administration could do that would continue to surprise me. almost every day or every other day, they continue to do stuff
that's basically unprecedented. >> thank you so much, marc warner and a ranking member of the senate intelligence committee. >> that was where i was heading. coming up, house republicans postpone a vote on their plan to repeal and replace obamacare the vote was supposed to happen tonight, after days of arm twisting, president trump doesn't have enough members of his party behind him. that's next. >> trump and russia, new details about his former campaign manager and his ties that figures close to the russian government. paul manafort we are talking about, that's ahead, facing major questions about his own credibility. president trump doubles downn his unsubstantiated charges during the campaign,hat millions of people illegally voted for hillary clinton, even about his debunked claim that ted cruz' poor father was involved in the kennedy assassination. get this, he said you can't be doing badly, because, hell, he's 3r9. that's what he said to the
reporters that interviewed him. anyway, that reporter will join us on requested hardball" tonight, from this is "hardball" where the action is. grid every day. and we came up with a plan to help reduce my risk of progression, including preservision areds 2. my doctor said preservision areds 2 has the exact nutrient formula the national eye institute recommends to help reduce the risk of progression of moderate to advanced amd after 15 years of clinical studies. preservision areds 2. because my eyes are everything. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪
lease a 2017 lincoln mkx for $369 a month. only at your lincoln dealer. >> republican leaders are meeting right now on capitol hill to plot the path forward, if there is one after delaying the bill on their health care vote. casey, it seems as to me you are trying to square a circle. there are people in the republican party that don't want to have a government program on health care. th mant to getid of obamacare but they don't necessarily want to replace it. >> reporter: i do think they are doing just that, chris. they put themselves into an impossible situation. they say this is obamacare lite, it's hard to move off that position witness you have drawn
that line in the sand. as leaders try to negotiate with them t. reality is there is more of them than these moderates who also have concerns, the problem is, the more conseconds over there, it's worn down the moderate members that they still do need and more of those that come out publicly the harder that this is to do. now i am hearing they are talking about pre-existing conditions, they are talking about kids on their parents' plan until the age of 26. for moderates, that's a complete non-starter. >> okay. have you got any smell on whether there is bullying or buying. how much bullying and how much buying is going on to get the votes to 216? >> reporter: i think we are firmly in the bullying stavenlth there was a lot of buying going on across the day. that was the pitch of the freedom caucus, a standing ovation for the president. they want to be at the table. they are trying to win them over. now i think we have reached a
point where frustrations are boiling over. i will be interested what it's like in this room. they are meeting behind me. hd5 in the capitol. >> you are strong, can you do that. i wouldn't be surprised if you did it one of these times, go bargeing in, say, "excuse me." >> i think i might get myself permanently banned. but, yes, whatever is happening in there, the tension in that room is going to be telling. what they've come, what they say when they come out of there is going t tell us what happens next. if we see house speaker paul ryan go to the cameras and say, hey, we are voting in the morning, okay, it's possible they came to a realization if you will throwing this out the window will spike their entire agenda. if we don't see them, if they put it off until monday, i think this whole thing will be dead. >> i don't think there are any epiphanys in trump land, there was buying during the day and bullying in the evening. we will have more on that he can
heck fight coming up in the hour, when we return, the latest on the trump's campaign ties to russia. it keeps growing, the russia connection, "hardball" returns after this. ♪ heigh ho heigh ho ♪ ♪ heigh ho heigh ho it's off to work we go here's to all of you early risers, what's up man? go-getters, and should-be sleepers. from all of us at delta, because the ones who truly change the world, are the ones who can't wait to get out in it. a 401(k) is the most sound way to go. let's talk asset allocation. -sure. you seem knowledgeable, professional. i'm actually a deejay. -[ laughing ] no way! -that really is you? if they're not a cfp pro, you just don't know. cfp. work with the highest standard. bp engineered a fleet of 32 brand new ships with advanced technology, so we can make sure oil and gas get where they need to go safely.
no, i don't think the president was not aware of paul's clients from the last decade, no. >> he definitely didn't know? >> no, no, he did not no to suggest that everybody knew everybody's background, did they pay their tacks, how much did they pay, how many deductions? >> he didn't disclose that? >> disclose what? he is a part of an adversary of the united states. >> again, i'm not here to vouch, i don't know. maybe, maybe not. >> welcome back. that was something, that was white house press secretary sean
spicer the man always in the barrel. yesterday denying president trump knew allegheny county abo anything /* /- -- anything about paul manafort. today the associated press is saying the manofart crossed the atlantic earlier there year to the mediterranean island nation of cypress, that treasury agents in recent months obtained information connected to manoforts transactions, he along with other associates potential involvement in russia is scrutinized in multiple investigations. we know paul manafor the has been associated with roger stone, also under scrutiny. in the 1980s and '90s the two partners were in a consulting firm. the washington post stated they had a list of clients that by
88 had donald trump. stone continued to be a top adviser to trump as he flirted multiple times and his then girlfriends, the current first lady and my, me talking, 1999, there is a picture of roger stone sitting right next to melania during our "hardball" when trump was considering a run for the presidency. there is melania and roger stone. they will say they don't even know the guy. today "new york times" nick crustoff reported, quote, . that's nick kristoff of the "times." thank you, let's talk about this trump. now, i was kidding the other day. i remember an old jackie mason thing about the o.j. trial. i want to say, all this russian, russian, russian. it's always russia.
i don't know anybody in my life that i we heard about had so many connections with moscow. here's the guys, then poor, i don't say poor, pathetic sean spicer has to say, oh, why would he ask them that? well, because you are in the middle of a scandal, with the russians helping you, you never asked the guy next to you, running your convention, how much money, how much million of dollars have you taken from the russians? >> they are trying to deflect from a bad position. when sean spicer says he was a client of manafort ten, 12 years ago, worked for putin, why should we care about that 12 years later? well the reason you should care, here is a guy running trump's campaign, who has demonstrated for $10 million a year, he will help russia, he will help putin. he has connections also to the ukrainians that were allies of putin. so while russia is committing political warfare against the united states in trying to
undermine the russians. >> they know what they can buy. >> they know what they can buy. aalso know there has to be any form of contact, to send a signal, i'm not saying collusion that trump is a better deal for you. >> they say, come over, have dinner, we will give you there are 35,000 to have dinner with you. it's not illegal if they weren't running the government. >> correct. there are lots of people in washington, d.c. that have made glorious careers on k street and representing dawning governments around the world. but that want to raise their profile and try to buy themselves some credibility here in washington, d.c. the difficulty with spicer's presentation there and the white house position is, we are now supposed to believe the moment these people started getting involved in donald trump's campaign, suddenly they became whiter than white. they forgot everything they ever know with other associates of
vladimir putin and from then on, they have been absolutely -- >> the back and forth the whole year. every time, ki get, what itself the guy, carter page? can i go to washington? can i go to russia? the a.p.'s report, now appeared to contradict his denial last july about having any ties to putin or his regime. let's watch. >> are there any ties between mr. trump, you or your campan and putin andis regime? >> no, there are not. it's absurd. and you know there is no basis to it. >> well, that now appears to be in dispute. manafort issued a similar denial whether donald trump had dealings with russian klogards. >> so to be clear, mr. trump has no financial relationships with any russian olegarks? >> that's what he said. that's obviously what my position is. >> that's what he said, that's what he said, that's our position. that looked like he was in a
police line just. that was nor ro sticking him with the question. trump's son said if 2008, russians make up a pretty disproportion fat cross-section of a lot of our assets, we see a lot of money pour income from russia. they better close their mouths on this. >> there is more than that, donald trump held the miss universe contest he owned at the time in russia, who was his partner, a russian olegarks. >> you accepted us yet? >> there is a lot that is true. >> all? >> no, i'm not saying, but he wasn't, having been the first person to report on it, it's not a dossier, it was a series of memos with a source saying, this is what i'm hearing, this is what i'm picking up. it wasn't that he said everything is true, this is what i'm hearing. >> what was that you told me a minute ago the shocking part true in it? >> i don't know about that. but i do know that trump made many trips to moscow and that --
>> stayed at the ritz carlton. >> certainly was surveiled when he was there. >> he is claiming now to be surveiled. >> it wasably moby moscow. >> he said, aft all, he couldn't be su, because they don't wear a badge saying i'm with russian intelligence, i lived there two years, i am sure at various times, i spoke as to people. you know who these people are. >> some good looking women says to you on the subway, how many times does that happen? >> all the time. >> it doesn't happen in real life. it happens in russia. thank you, i we heard about that. thank you. up next, we will talk to a republican member of congress, a no vote on the new health care plan of the press. maybe the old plan by tonight. he met today with the president. we will get the latest on the failure today by republicans, even hold a vote on trumpcare. this is "hardball" where the
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be playing golf and i will be working very hard, but by '17, instead. >> trump's promise to repeal obamacare took a serious hit. paul ryan trying to i peel it in its 7th anniversary does not have enough to repeal. all republicans want repeal. i think that's fair, only some to replace. in the past seven years under president obama, republicans have voted, catch this, more than 60 times to repeal. well, earlier today, white house press secretary sean spicer called out republicans on their hesitancy. >> this is something that we have talked about. you have taken a bunch of these free votes when it didn't matter, because you didn't have a republican president. you got to repeal 50 times. this is a live ball now. and this is for real and we're going to do what we pledged to the american people and keep our
word. >> a broke clog, he was right. spicer had a lot of fun voting the repeal as long as they were sure there was nobody to sign it. the house freedom caucus received a major concession from the white house today. which agreed to eliminate obamacare benefits for er service and substance abuse t. concessions frustrated many moderate republicans that held a marathon, attendees found the concessions hard to swallow because they were worried, quote, the leadership would force swing-district members to take a risky vote. they are currently meeting behind closed doors, trying to figure out a way forward. for more, i am joined by republican congressman from new jersey, leonard lance that left that meeting and former rnc chair and msnbc political analyst michael steel.
is it if dprav condition? is that fair? >> i this i the votes are not necessarily there at the moment. i am a no vote. i think it was concerned about the new cbo score that came out this evening, chris, but i think the democratic party should come to the table as well, because there the a bitapartisan matter that needs a part san fix. >> i don't know it's normal. this bipartisan i know is my believe. i share that religion you mentioned. but it doesn't seem to be in practice these days, one party saving the other doesn't team to be way things work anymore. >> i think we should put the national interest first and i do think the exchanges are in great difficulty, chris, as you know, one-third of the counties in this country have uninsurer, so i hope that we might work
together and this is true in the senate as well from a bipartisan capacity. >> would the president be the one to broker that kind of a deal? he's a deal-maker, he says. >> certainly, that's a point and i hope democrats here in the house as well as democrats in the senate will come to the table. because in my opinion, the exchanges are in difficulty and we need a better system for the entire nation. >> that sound like a very prudent thing you offer. i think right now what's going on the republican party can't solve this problem despite their strong majority in the house. >> they can't solve this problem, i think individuals and coecvely like congressman lance, you know really believe fundamentally because their constituents believe, you will go to washington and you will repeal obamacare, soup-to-nuts. there is no balances, no straggling, no add-ones. >> what about the 60 votes they all cast to get rid of it? >> that's been, no, i think that's a fair point and that really i think where the
congressman and others would say, yeah, give us the bill that does exactly what we said we wanted it to do. we will do that. we will have all the votes you need. >> congressman lance, did you vote to repeal obamacare? >> i did. >> then you want to get rid of it. now you say you want to fix it. which is it? >> i think that's a fair point, chris. >> what is the answer? do you want to fix it or kill it? >> i want to fix it. >> why did you vote 50 times to kill it? >> this was a negotiating strategy with president obama to bring him to the table and i certainly think it needs to be fixed and i want to work in a bipartisan capacity to do so. >> but it couldn't be a negotiateing tactic to someone that doesn't know the process the president doesn't need to sign that bill, he could veto it. >> i think the president recognizes there are the exchanges are in difficulty. >> thank you. congressman, thank you for joining us, we will go to mark
meadows of the freedom caucus right now. >> thank you. >> here's casey. i'm going to get casey in a second. she just walked past. we will get the camera focused on her, michael, what do you think? >> oh, spicer again. this is hard. they don't have a deal. >> they don't have a deal, greta would be all over it. >> there is no deal here because of the reality. you go if one direction, you pull conservatives, you go in another. >> if he blows it on this, it looks like he has, he won't get anything out of it. soup-to-nuts, he is not getting the soup. >> no. >> what about tax reform and all the stuff he said he would do later? >> he should have led with tax reform. whatever it may mean. >> i know what it means. >> it's not this. and you don't need to do
obamacare repeal first to put in place the tax reforms that you want, number one. number two, that then foundation lays out an argument and runway, if you will, for jobs and all the things that donald trump wants to talk about. you set this victory up, it's the same argument rahm emanuel made in between against hillary. >> obamacare. >> obamacare. don't lead with health care, it's too much of a thicket to get into. >> how is it going? >> reporter: hi, chris, i apologize, we are getting the latest download here. we had one member come out of this meeting and tell us they will be and up or down vote on this bill tomorrow. we may see one additional major change tonight to the legislation. they may put that out this evening. we're keeping an eye out for that. but we're also told that nick mulvaney, the budget director said that president trump wants a vote tomorrow. he is done negotiating. this is where he wants to go from here. >> using a military term for
range or effect? they want to find out how many votes they need to work on those people over the weekend? >> reporter: it sounds like at this point the president wants them to go forward with this. obviously the president isn't the speaker of the house, so it doesn't technically decide any of this. so he could be putting paul ryan, the speaker, in a pretty difficult position, if they do not have the votes. it sounds like trump is tick of the back and forth and wants us to move forward, chris. >> so you think foreman morning looks good right now? >> it seems as though the pressure is certainly on for that. we will look and see what kind of a policy change will be concluded. i think it will continue. i think what speaker ryan has to say will tell us the most about all of this. >> casey hunt on the job there, casey hunt. thank you, congressman, one last thought, is he still there? will you voight for this attorney general if it comes up or are you sticking with the position it's not the right bill? >> i'm a no tomorrow, chris. >> thank you, congressman
leonard lance and michael steel as always, up next, president trump tells "time" magazine, he does not have to apologize for his false statements. he can't be doing badly, because, after all, he's the president. he's true, we're not. he got me on that. he says he's a clairvoyant, a psychic, giving some advice on the next horse race, mr. president.
>> welcome back to "hardball" president trump has another coveted "time" magazine cover this week. i don't think he wants that one. when the president makes statements without factual basis, he claimed illegal voting and wiretapping and ted cruz' father was involved in the jfk killing. let's look at previous statements son such topics. >> do you think that talking about millions of illegal votes
is dangerous to this country. >> >> no, not at all. not at all, because many people feel the same way i do. >> you tweet, the former administration, wiretapped me, surveiled me at trump tower during the last election. how did you find out? you said i just find out. how did you learn about that? >> well, i have been reading about things. what were they doing with lee harveyswald shortly before the death the shting, it's horrible. >> well in his "time" interview, the president doubled down, what do you say that i have to apologiz apologize? i'm quoting the newspaper when i quoted the judge the other day. when asked if these things affect his credibility, i can't be doing so badly, you, are not. anyway, we we heard that president trump is done negotiating on health care and is demanding a vote tomorrow. by the way, he didn't predict tonight's loss, did he? joining me tonight is the washington bureau chief and the writer of this cover story and
"time" contributor jane newton small. a great group tonight, as always. this, it sounds almost looney tune to say i am instinctive. it sounded like he was a clairvoyant, a psych ig, if he really believes that, he would test it out every day of his life. if i can predict the future, i'd be betting on horses, how it goes on a roulette table on everything, because you can make unlimited amount of money predicting what's going to happen in ten minutes. he says he can do that. >> yeah, he mentioned the statement he made about sweden there was something that happened last night. he now says that was right, because something happened two days later. >> that's what fortune tellers do, they reinterpret what they predicted. so they're always right. >> he feels he is getting short shift in our discussion, because we just point out what he gets wrong in a literal sense, which is what we do for a living, it's our job. he thinks this is all
negotiation, it's not a matter of black and white, right or wrong or true or false. he can say wiretapping, it's in quotes. >> he didn't say it was in quotes, it was during the campaign and president obama ordered it. neither of those are true. >> it's a negotiation, it's all a negotiation, we're negotiating, but you know maybe i was talking about wiretapping the 3 million undocumented. he said, maybe it was registration, not voting. maybe it was illegal. his whole career is about that. >> that's what they say about the middle east, you make your deal, then they start negotiate,in in other words, there is no end to it. >> as michael writes inhis story, it's about moving the goal post. he moves it even farther away and basically says, oops, now the midsome here -- even though it's here. >> why is it important for the president to be able to tell the future? >> oh, i don't believe it's about telling the future. >> he says the swedes will have a hard time. >> to some degree he is right. he has his own. >> okay, linger on the --
>> we are missing, we are mindless -- we just care about you useless book facts. >> he was asked and answered, well, "a lot of people feel that" is not a factual statement. a lot of people can feel a whole lot of things but they don't know anymore than you know. a lot of people think the cia killed kennedy. they have no evidence but they feel that. you're allowed to feel whatever you want. it's a free country. without evidence it doesn't mean anything. >> we here in the fact business so we tend to take offense at this stuff. if you say something that's not true, it's a violation. he uses disputed facts, wrong facts, false facts to virally insert himself into the conversation. we're talking about this right now. for his supporters if they're watching this show they're thinking oh, there goes donald trump again, he's got those washington elites. >> let's try reality in realtime which i don't think he's comfortable in. they didn't have a vote, they were going to have a vote, he thought they were going to have a vote but ty're not so his
ability to predict is off. he wants to vote tomorrow. i think what he's up to -- i'm hearing this already -- he knows he's probably going to lose and then he'll say "i'm tired of that, i don't like this losing thing." i . >> he'll blame it on the democrats or paul ryan. if you read that interview, there's never blame falling upon donald trump. that's the real bottom line here. >> well, he's president. you're not president. >> i didn't say it, it was in the paper. i'm just saying what's in the newspaper. you're always shifting blame to somebody else. >> what's spicer's job? >> to act the dog. >> what's his job everyday? >> literally, to basically come out and respond to us saying, wait, the facts are this and he says "oh, but there's other interpretations, there's alternative facts. there's other ways it might be understood." and basically to move the press into the conversation they want it to be moved to. they want to be talking act something different. >> these people are national celebrities now.
they are. kellyanne conway, i've known her for 30 years. i get along with her personally, she's on the cover of "new york" magazine. >> well, she's important, she's powerful. >> it's entertainment. >> sean spicer is a figure. >> this is literally about entertainment. it's about tv ratings, it's about the next drama, the next thing that's going to happen. >> i want to start with paul manafort because the russian connection, $10 million is a lot of years. a lot of rubles and he's getting that money and he acts like it never happened. did you see the clip we showed earlier tonight? he acted like well, maybe, maybe, that's what he says, i'm sticking to that. that's our story. obviously he has a problem. and it wasn't wrong until he became chairman of the trump campaign. >> and the interesting thing is to watch the sort of shifting conversation from the white house about exactly what his job was and how he's just a gentleman who happened to work there. >> never knew the gu >> and nunes says he's never heard of roger stone. maybe he hasn't, b he's chairman of the intelligence committee, he should know who roger stone is. then they show a picture of roger stone sitting back to
melania at my town meeting. i think they knew him. >> they can credibly argue manafort's contract was ten years ago. that's a credible argument. the question is then he was working with ukrainians. >> they don't do follow-up. i get the feeling it's more like the mob. the round table is sticking with us. up next, these three will tell me something i don't know. be right back. ♪ ♪ wanna get away? now you can with southwest fares as low as 59 dollars one-way. yes to low fares with nothing to hide. that's transfarency. i am totally blind. i lost my sight in afghanistan. if you're totally blind, you may also be struggling with non-24.
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we're back with the "hardball" round table. michael, tell me something i don't know about trump, you had a lot of time with him. what's the story of trump? >> i printed what i know about that interview. this is what i'd say that we're not paying attention to right now. when steve bannon came out and said "we're deconstructing the administrative state" that is real and happening and it's big. it's going on in the general counsel's office, they're hiring up at the strategic initiatives group in the white house and as the legislative wheels come grinding to a halt here most likely, i think the most lasting legacy of this first year is going to be what they can do to take apart the powers of the bureaucracy. >> what nixon tried to do. didn't get done. reagan tried. >> today is the day of the anniversaries, the seventh anniversary of the passage of the affordable care act so i have three anniversaries for you, chris. one is for the freedom caucus. this is -- on this day in 1776 patrick henry actually uttered the words "give me liberty or give me death." >> you told this to somebody
else before you told me. i can read this. >> the second one is for donald trump, stonewall jackson who at that point claimed to be a cousin of donald trump's favorite president andrew jackson had his only defeat -- >> i thought he was german, not scotch irish. >> they claimed to be but they weren't in the end. >> he had his only defeat. and for all americans, on this day in 1839 wi, the word "o.k." entered our lexicon. >> where does it come from. >> it's from all correct. >> the breitbart washington bureau has, a, been evacuated by and large, steve bannon is no longer there, neither is breitbart which is okay because it was probably illegal. >> thank you so much michael scher scherer, jay newton-small. when we continue, we'll return with trump watch. you're watching "hardball." work with awesome people,
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23, 2017. the failure of the trump presidency to deliver a replacement to affordable care is now a matter of historic record. all those votes cast in past years, dozens and dozens of them, are shown for what they were -- cheap politics. they were voting for a bill they had full confidence would never become law for the obvious reason that the president who created affordable care was not going to assist with its lethal injection. and the reason trump and his party failed cuts to the heart of what president obama was able to achieve, we no longer live in a country where it's every person for himself when it comes to health insurance. this is why the republicans can't pass a health care replacement to obama because they are deeply divided on how or whether to meet this public expectation. to simply repeal what obamacare created, others want to replace it, to somehow honor the public's insistence there be a national health care plan. so good luck, mr. trump. until you convince an entire political party tohange its stripes you're not going to deliver onhat repeal and replace promise of yours. let's face it, guys, you're
better at deception than conception. that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. "all in" with chris hayes starts right now. tonight on "all in." >> nobody knew health care could be so complicated. >> the president can't close the deal. >> we have to ask some honest questions about why this went down in flames. >> a stunning rebuke for the president and the speaker as republicans pull trumpcare. >> reporter: is there any plan if the bill doesn't pass tonight? >> no. >> tonight, as the president's team storms the capitol to try to revive the bill, how the deal was undone. what happens next, and what this means for americans caught in the cross hairs. >> i don't know if you want to call this on trump's part a rookie's error. plus, the devin nunes debacle continues. >> the president didn't invite me over, i called. i called down there and invited myself. >> tonight, the calls for a