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tv   MSNBC Live With Stephanie Ruhle  MSNBC  March 31, 2017 6:00am-7:01am PDT

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morning. >> i don't understand. why would you do that? i'm confused. can you help sthp. >> no. >> have a great weekend. i'm chris jansing in for stephanie this morning. has flynn flipped? the former national security adviser asks for immunity. his lawyer says he has a story to tell. his past words, though, coming back to bite the white house. >> when you are given immunity, that means you've probably committed a crime. >> inside sources, the mystery revealed. intel chairman david nunes secret sources for classified information reportedly three people. who work for the president. our cameras catch two of them exclusively this morning. >> i'm not talking about anything. >> have a good day. >> plus, friendly fire. trump takes aim at his own party, calling out members of the freedom caucus and threatening to work against their re-election. well, they're firing back. >> it may allow a child to get
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his way, but that's now how our government works. >> and we begin today with this potential political bombshell. president trump's former national security adviser offering to talk to congressional lawmakers. but what does he know? why does he want immunity? and what could it all mean for this white house? i have a great panel to help me break it all down. let's go right to nbc's kristen welker live at the white house for us. what exactly is michael flynn saying and how is the administration reacting? >> well, michael flynn, the former ousted national security adviser is agreeing to testify if he gets immunity. now, i want to go back to a point that you made at the top, chris. look, asking for immunity does not necessarily mean that you've committed some type of a crime or that you have something to hide. however, ironically on "meet the press" last year, flynn said that it likesly does mean that you committed a crime. so the optics of that, not great. but look, his lawyer sent out a statement last night saying that
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he wants to talk, he wants to tell his story, but the reality is this is a highly pol poe lit sized environment. that's why he's asking for immunity. his lawyer wrote, general flynn certainly has a story to tell, and he very much wants to tell it, should the circumstances permit. this is what president trump said earlier today, chris, in a tweet. seems to be supportive of this offer for immunity saying, mike flynn should ask for immunity in that this is a witch-hunt. excuse for big election loss by media and dems of historic proportion. again, trying to revisit the 2016 race there and cast this in a political light. but the reality is just to remind our viewers, who is mike flynn? he was the national security adviser, one of donald trump's early supporters. remember, he had a lot of fiery rhetoric on the campaign trail, particularly about hillary clinton. and then he was fired for, the president says, he misled the vice president about having conversations with the russian
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ambassador in which he discussed sanctions. mike flynn himself acknowledging when he was let go that he gave incomplete information to white house officials. so there is a cloud over his departure and certainly a lot more information that investigators want to hear from him as they dig into potential interference by russia in the 2016 race, chris. >> on that, another low key day at the white house. kristen welker, that you can for that. i want to bring in jason osbourn, strategist for the ben carson campaign. ron clain served a former chief of staff to joe biden and paul butler is a professor at georgetown university. paul, i have to start with you. there are so many questions here. but let's start with what we heard general flynn saying. he was talking about hillary clinton at the time saying, look, if you're asking for immunity, probably you committed a crime. does the same apply here? >> well, he would know better than anybody else, right? so let's look at the facts.
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he admits that he lied to the vice president of the united states. he was also questioned around the same time by the fbi. if he gave the same incomplete information to them, that's a federal crime. so now what he's saying is, i'll snitch if you guarantee me that i won't be prosecuted. so where there is this kind of smoke, is there a fire? i wouldn't be surprised. you know, the white house, for two weeks, knew that he'd lied to the vice president. they didn't do anything. so makes it look like there's something that he knows that they don't want out. if you're a federal prosecutor, if you're an investigator for the congress, you definitely want to know what's up. >> and they definitely say, he knows something. jason, i want to read you part of the letter from flynn's counsel. no reasonable person who has the benefit of counsel would submit to questioning in such a highly politicized witch-hunt environment without assurances against unfair prosecution. is this him trying to protect
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himself from what is a witch-hunt environment or is this something who can be in trouble trying to protect himself from prosecution or both? >> you know, i take what his lawyer said and what he has said in the past at face value in the sense that he's trying to protect himself, not necessarily, you know, i take issue with your words of snitch on the white house. he was in there for two weeks. he worked for the previous administration. he's been around government for a while. i think he clearly can knows that he messed up. he admitted so much. he apologized to the president and the vice president. the president has said, go ahead and testify. give him immunity. let him testify. i don't blame the guy for having for it because who knows how these hearings are going to go and the testimony that he gives and how many different ways they're going to ask questions. i'd ask for the same thing. >> but if this is what he has to give, which is what we already know, that he misled people at the white house about things that he knew and conversations that he had, do you think that's what's behind this? is there a lot more to this? >> first of all, let's be careful what the word immunity
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means. i think president trump doesn't really understand that. because he's not asking for immunity from democrats or immunity from a witch-hunt or immunity from congress. he's asking for immunity from prosecution by the justice department, okay? and so the question is why would he need that immunity? it doesn't do a -- you know, press or democrats or congress. .it's because he may have committed a crime that the donald trump's justice department would prosecute him for. so that's what's on the table here. that's what immunity means. initially get that immunity if he has important information for the investigation. >> jason, you're laughing, but that's right, correct? if you want immunity from prosecution, you're afraid you're going to be prosecuted. >> but the last several years, we've been dealing with the previous administration people coming in .pleading the fifth. clearly that was an issue of them admitting or at least to a lay person saying, we know that we've done something wrong, we're pleading the fifth here. >> we're not talking about the previous administration, but we also have a president who ran on the idea that if you elect
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hillary clinton, what you're going to have is one investigation after another investigation, one scandal after another scandal. why are we now with this administration less than a hundred days in? >> look, flynn has already admitted and this administration took care of that and fired the guy and said that he misled the vice president of the united states and, in effect, misled the president of the united states. for him to say that he's requesting immunity, that's for him to decide. to your point earlier, he's the only one that knows. >> here is my common sense question as the nonlawyer here, if that's all he has, which is what we know that he's already admitted, that he misled people, is that enough that they're sitting down in a room at a table and having a conversation about immunity? >> no. so they want to know are there even bigger fish? let's be clear. this is the national security adviser of the united states. so this is normally the kind of people you would try to roll. if he's saying he has a story to tell, that has to be about
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people higher than him, perhaps all the way up to the president of the united states. the issue is was there collusion with the russians? who colluded with them? that's huge. they're only interested in rolling him if if he's conceding about people what are way up the chain. >> bottom line is, the president promised he would drain the swamp. we are 70 days into an administration where the national security adviser had the shortest tenure in american history of the job had to be fired for lying to the vice president is now asking for immunity. the water level of the swamp is hitting a new record here. >> all this about michael flynn breaking at the same time there are a couple of bombshell reports that say despite denials by the administration and the intel chair, devin nunes himself with, white house officials gave nunes access to key reports in an attempt to help support trump's claim that he was wired tapped by president obama.
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it's important to note nbc news has not independently confirmed these reports. they come from the "new york times" and the "washington post." let's go live to capitol hill and nbc's casey hunt. casey, a lot there. break it all down for us. >> there is a lot here, chris. and this, of course, has been what democrats have been insinuating on capitol hill for days, this idea that devin nunes essentially received information to lend credibility to the president's claims that he was surveilled by the obama white house. and then taking that information and going to the white house with it. democrats have long suspected that white house officials were the source of that information and it seems as though these reports would confirm that. important, again, to note that we have not confirmed here at nbc these identities. these are reports in the "new york times" and the "washington post." but those newspapers report that three officials, potentially, were involved in giving this information to devin nunes. one of them is michaelis. he is a former aide, actually,
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to devin nunes and the house committee. ezra watpik, somebody the national adviser voted to be moved out of the role. and john eisenberg, lawyer with the national security. we caught up here at nbc news with a couple of these people this morning. take a look. >> did you help provide devin nunes information? >> i'm not talking about anything. >> i have no idea. >> can you tell us anything, any information about the current investigation going on by chairman nunes? >> have a good day. have a good day. >> to the cameras this morning. and, again, we are still work on confirming exactly how this information wounds its way to devin nunes. now,ed am schiff, the ranking
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member of the committee did a press conference yesterday coming out and saying, look with, if these people found this information, why not just take it straight to the president of the united states? why do it in this way through the chairman of the house intelligence committee? and, of course, this has raised questions about the credibility of the intelligence committee's investigation. chris. >> casey hunt with, thank you. i want to bring my panel back in. so i want to play what the house minority leader, nancy pelosi, had to say about all in this morning. >> why would the chairman of the committee go to the white house to get information that they could have conveyed to the president, bring it to the president and then take it to the press -- well, who -- >> he was duped. that's the most.innocent, most benign characterization, that he was duped. >> is it possible, ron, the that he was duped? >> hard to know if he was the dupee or the duper, but someone was duped here. after all, remember how this started. the white house announced that president trump had been briefed
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by exciting new information from the house intelligence chairman about this wire with tapping, ridiculous wiretapping charge president trump made and it turned out that information was from the president's own team. i think the real scandal here may well be what the respected national security journalist bart gellman published this morning. the way this information was collected suggests the white house itself may have been spying on the fbi and this was an effort to launder that information and get it out into the public arena. there is something very strange going on here. when white house staffers ask a congressman to come to get information and have that congressman say that information was information he found and reported to the president. i've never seen anything like this. >> jason, does this make any sense? >> no. i think we're so intrigued by the process here that this information -- >> well, the process matters. this is about the process. but nobody is talking about the information itself. that's what i'm still curious about. what is that information? >> people have been asking devin
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nunes, including other members of his committee what that information is and he won't give it. >> well, i can't speak to what plan he has internally, i am confused about why it's such a big issue that folks who have the information or are providing it to the chairman who is investigating this, it sounds -- how he got that information is up to him to describe. >> do you think if it's meant to mitigate any damage from the white house and it comes from people in the white house, that's not a problem? >> outside looking in and not knowing -- >> and he's briefing the president when he's supposed to have an oversight role? >> i think there's so much attention paid on president trump and when he announces stuff, tweets out things and makes comments on this, that anything he says, the media is going to look at as suspect. so outside looking in, and i see somebody is bringing in the chairman of the intelligence committee to say, look at this information, what do you think? and it's up to him to decide whether or not it's relevant or not, and then for him then -- >> but it's the inten integrity
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of the information. we have three branches of government for a reason. we have a system of checkes and bales for a reason. for a matter of urgent national security like this, the white house and the congress aren't supposed to be hooking each other up for political reasons. they're soefd to be doing a search for truth to make us all feel safe. again, we're talking about national security here. >> but we're going to talk a lot more, guys. jason, ron and paul are all going to come back. but in the meantime, we're going to talk about the white house and how it seems to be in chaos. is there any way that president trump can recover? moving past these scandals. former press secretary josh earnest will join me. but up next, president trump takes aim at his own party, ripping the freedom caucus on twitter. but this morning, the freedom caucus is hitting back. how about we pump more into promotions? ♪ nah. what else? what if we hire more sales reps? ♪ nah. what else? what if we digitize the whole supply chain?
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conservatives were excited when we heard donald trump was coming to help us drain the swamp, but now he's taking advice from the swamp creatures. but he's burning political capital with every tweet. >> that is republican congressman thomassy of kentucky calling out president trump just a short time ago on ""morning joe." this is the growing escalation that pits the president and his powerful twitter account against the freedom caucus who he blames for the demise of the health care bill. let's go live to the white
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house. when this bill was pulled, which has been a week ago, it was exactly a week ago last friday, the president indicated it was time to move on. but he doesn't seem to be able to do that himself. so what's going on? >> he's not. and he's essentially, chris, unleashing a new strategy. he's taking aim at members of the freedom caucus, who as you point out he blames for blocking his health care bill and saying, we're going to campaign against new 2018 if you don't get on board with some of the priorities that we have. let me read you some of his tweets. he tweeted out, the freedom caucus will hurt the entire republican agenda if they don't get on the team and fast. we muft fight them and dems in 2018. >> and then there was this. if representative jim jordan, r aoul labrador would get on board, we would have great health care and massive tax cuts and reform. so singling out, targeting specific members of the freedom caucus. is this strategy going to work?
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so far, no indzcations that it is. what is donald trump going to do? i spoke with someone familiar with his thinking who tells me he's already trying to build a consensus of moderate republicans and eyeing some democrats, chris. he wants to potentially revisit health care the that might not happen this year, but he wants to get something done on tax reform. and then, of course, there's that big infrastructure package that he's been eyeing. so he is starting to have a more realistic eye towards this, even as he continues to take aim at the freedom caucus. by the way, we're told he's potentially prepared to campaign against some of these people, to take air force one into these districts and to say, hey, these people went against me, now it's time to vote them out of office. so really trying to amp up the rhetoric against them. but, between, so far, they're not backing down, chris. >> thank you so much, kristen welker. my panel is here to weigh in. jason osbourn, ron clain, i will
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admit i always say nothing is going to surprised me any more, but when i hear that a sitting republican president might get on air force one and go into a district and campaign against a sitting republican member of congress, what is going on? >> well, i think it comes down to the fact that these members of congress didn't elect president trump to be president. the voters elected president trump. and he came in with a platform of trying to take care of a lot of the problems that are facing america right now. and for him to go after the house freedom caucus, i don't blame him. i mean, i think one of the things about being president is you have to know who you're negotiating with. and when you're negotiating with members of congress and in good faith and then comes to find out that a block of them had already made the agreement that no matter what the president or his staff said, that you're not going to abide by anything that he st, that hurts. i mean, you have to recognize that, you know, he's going in and meeting individually with these members of congress and as a group in some cases and trying
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to figure out what it is that is their biggest concern and how they can address it. i think a lot of members of the house freedom caucus and a lot of the members of the house, period, didn't fully grasp the strategy here in terms of the three phases that a lot of the things they're talking about were going to be done administratively and in a tax package and so on. >> but these are people who were in the room with the president multiple times. having said that, ron, i can tell you i was at the white house last friday and there were people on the senior staff who were seething because they really did feel like the president did negotiate in good faith. they said give us a and he gave them a and they came back and they wanted b and when he gave them b, they wanted c and d and e. something john boehner learned when he was speaking of the house and now paul ryan is learning it in a different way. is this the president saying i'm not going to do business as usual. it doesn't matter what party you are. if you're not working towards that common goal, that's it. >> yeah. we have to think since the
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health care bill went down, the president has blamed the democrats, the media, he's blamed paul ryan, it may be time to look in the mirror and say we know what's going on. in the end, he came to washington with the promise that he would get people to work together. and all we've seen is him blasting and attacking people on both sides. in his first major legislative initiative went down in flames with both democratic and republican opposition. you know, he's going to have to get his act together. i don't think him tweeting after house republicans is going to change the dynamic in washington and bring the kind of change. yes, this is supposed to be the art of the deal presidency. there's little art and there's no deal and it's going down in flames. >> as a strategic move, is there any chance it helps him? >> i think so. because, again, one thing that people are still not understanding is that he has an appeal to the average american and the voter out there. and he can reach them directly -- >> his approval rating is at 36%. >> you know, but the polls were wrong before the election. they showed him losing before
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the election. i don't think those polls matter. when you get him out in the field and you see the support that he has, democrats, i think, are misconstruing this win as a victory for them in the long run and i think republicans to a certain extent are saying, you know, the folks that are used to saying no to everything, you know, are misconstruing this as a win for them. in the long run, i think he's able to go out there and speak directly to the voters and get this done. >> i agree with jason. the president does have an appeal to main street in a certain way. but part of that appeal was he would deliver. he would make washington work. he would get things done. and that's just not what we've seen in the first 70 days of this administration. now, i think democrats who think he's dead and buried in wrong. he's been underestimated time and time again. it would be a mistake to underestimate him now. but he is going to have to change the way he does business and start to produce some results if he's going to get that appeal to main street that jason is talking about. >> ron, jason, we'll see you again a little bit later. in the meantime, we have more on
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mike flynn demanding immunity to testify. how common is this sort of request on capitol hill? but up next, former white house press secretary josh earnest will join me. what does the president obama make of the chaos in d.c. since he left? fun in art class. come close, come close. i like that. [ all sounds come to a crashing halt ] ah. when your pain reliever stops working, your whole day stops. awww. try this. for minor arthritis pain, only aleve is fda approved to work for up to 12 straight hours with just one pill. thank you. come on everybody. aleve. live whole. not part. e*trade's powerful trading tools,
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welcome back. time now for your morning primer. everything you need to know to start your day. we begin with michael flynn asking for immunity. the former national security adviser said he'll testify in the russia investigation, but he wants a deal that promises he won't be prosecuted. his lawyer released a statement saying he has a story to tell. two democratic senators have come out in support of the nomination of kneel neil gorsuch for the supreme court. republicans need six more democrats to support gorsuch in order to prevent a filibuster. a. a communitier's nightmare for atlanta residents. a commuter train now closed indefinitely after a massive fire caused a bridge to collapse during rush hour yesterday. the city's mayor calls ate transportation crisis. north carolina governor roy
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cooper assigned a compromised bill tuesday. it has left the lgbtq community angry. and spacex successfully launched and landed a reused rocket for the first time ever. fashls say reusing rockets will help cut down on surprises and revolutionize space flight. now back to devin nunes and the white house, nbc got exclusive comments from the men reportedly involved in handing over the information to the chairman. take a listen. >> i'm not talking about anything. >> i have no idea. >> can you tell us anything, any information about the current investigation going on by chairman nunes? >> nothing to say. have a good day. >> i want to bring in a man who knows a little bit about political challenges. former obama press secretary josh earnest who is now an msnbc political analyst.
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good to see you this morning. >> good to see you. how are you? >> we are colleagues now instead of being on the other side of the podium. the president tweeted in this morning. mike flynn should ask for immunity in that this is a witch-hunt, excuse for big election loss, by media and dems of historic proportion. this isn't the first time an administration has charged a witch-hunt. and in this hyper poe lit sized environment now, josh, does he have a point or is it a lot to spin? >> he would have a point if there weren't nonpartisans involved in this and ties with the russian administration. i'm sure after that story broke yesterday, there were some restless nights sleep here this washington, d.c. >> do you think? >> yeah, i do. particular lay trump administration who sent an
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e-mail to private flynn who thought they were having a private conversation with general flynn or was in a position where they were publicly defending general flynn, now you have to be concerned that you're either private communications are going to become public or that your efforts to defend him are going to be proven false. >> so behind the scenes are poem like, oh, my god? >> if i were them, i would be. and i think the tweet from the president, we know that he tweets when he's particularlieserized about something. he is in a position of having private communications with mr. flynn. is he facing the prospect of having a lot of that be upended? i think he might be. >> and then you have devin nunes and these revelations about the white house. in spite of the fact that he said his spokesperson said it wasn't somebody in the white house, turns out it is someone in the white house. if they had just handed over the documents, would it have been a big deal? what is it about this that's problematic for the white house? >> well, first of all, i think
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what's problematic for the american people is that you have senior intelligence officials in the national security council that are not poring over intelligence reports trying to figure out how to keep the country save. they're trying to figure out how they can defend an ultimately defenseless sweet to defend the president of the united states. but for the white house, i do think that they have to be concerned because it looks like they're trying to lawner this information through the republican chairman of the house intelligence community, again, to try to exonerate or at least defend the tweets from the president of the united states. i think most people would expect that people in positions of handling national intelligence are handling that information and using that information to protect the american people, not to try and protect the political claims of the united states. >> somebody who has handled intelligence for a long time, has had classified information from their hands for a long time, nancy pelosi, the house
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democratic leader was on the "today" show this morning. here is what she had to say. >> we really have to really take some steps back and hope that in the administration there's some adult some place who can say this is not fair to the american people. >> i do -- i would say in the big picture, let's take the legal part of it. and even so the political part out of it. i'm sure, josh, now that you're back in civilian life, you sense this. there is a sense around america that there is so much going on and there's so much kovent versesy going on. is there a way for this white house to take charge of this again, beyond the president tweeting? >> well, they certainly -- it's going be hard for them to separate from this kind of environment because it seems to be white house officials and even the president himself who is feeding this environment. it is the president of the united states who is ensuing chaos, inviting people to take
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roelts in his administration who thrive in this. i'm referring to steve banyan who walked in the door vowing to sew this chaos. this is the president's management style. it's not particularly surprising maine that this is the way he runs the company. there's a difference between campaigning and governing. when you are campaigning, you are operating in a fast moving political environment and you're making promises. when you're in government and particularly when you're at the top of the government, people are relying on you to be a source of stability and to be a source of confidence. and i don't think people are drawing a lot of confidence from the president's leadership right now. at least the polls would indicate -- >> in the midst of all this, the president whob has been going after the freedom caucus is saying alternatively, i'm going to work with some democrats. maybe i can bring some democrats on board for things like tax structure. are there some democrats do you think who are now torn between resisting trump at all costs as a political move as opposed to
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actually working perhaps with moderate republicans and trying to get something done? >> well, politically, they don't need to be worried about that because the president's standing in the polls is so low. i don't think they have to be worried about being viewed as cooperating with somebody who is so unpopular already. we're only eight or nine weeks into his tenure as president and he's already reached depth the in the polls that president obama, you know, who had a supposedly divisive presidency never reached. so i don't think there is much of a political imperative, but democrats want government to work. many believe government request be a source of good and can do good things for the country. are they interested in cooperating with republicans to do right things for the can company? they might be, but that will have to start with republicans being interested to talk to democrats. then you have the speak her of the house indicating that he's
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not going to work with democrats at all to try and pass legislation and there's no indication that democrats were consulted by the white house in terms of trying to pass health care reporm. republicans are going to have to change their strategy dramatically to make good on their promise of trying to work with democrats. >> how is your former pot boss viewing all of this? >> i think with some -- viewing it from a distance. >> where he's writing hit book. >> but i think he's genuinely concerned about -- he's somebody who was involved in public service because he wanted to see the country succeed. and he certainly viewed the white house and the federal government as an institution that could be used to advance the interesting of the american public. there's a sense of a lot of action and movement in washington, d.c. but not a lot of movement forward. and i think that's a source of some concern, not just for the former president of the united states, but for americans and both parties all across the country. >> josh earnest, good to see you. >> good to see you. >> am i allowed to say that you have a baby on the way? we're excited about it.
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>> on the way any day thou. thank you so much. >> thank you, chris. and coming up, president trump backs up flynn's request with for immunity. how would immunity actually be granted in a case like this? and would it be good or bad for the president? (dog barking) whoever threw it has to go get it. not me! somebody will get it... ♪ (dog barking) anyone can dream. making it a reality is the hard part. from the b-2 to the upcoming b-21, northrop grumman stealth bombers give america an advantage in a turbulent world. and we're looking for a few dreamers to join us.
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and if your not guilty of a crime, why do you need immunity? right? >> that was then candidate donald trump at a rally back this september referring to investigations into hillary clinton's private e-mail server. now six months later, trump's national security adviser of just 24 days says he's prepared to talk to the if fbi and congressional officials who are investigating possible trump campaign tie toes russia, but only if he's granted immune thety. a letter released yesterday by his lawyer says, quote, no reasonable person who has the benefit of advice of counsel would submit to questioning in such a highly politicized witch-hunt environment without assurances against unfair prosecution. let's talk about this. so, paul, take us behind the scenes. what's happening right now when
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lawyers for flynn sit down and try to make their case? >> what they're doing now is trying to entice the government with unrestricted conversations and trying to make that enticing to the government with the broadest immunity deal that they can. >> what does that mean, the broadest immunity deal that they can? >> what they want to make sure is that they are protected from any prosecution or investigation beyond just an individual incident. and this is the difference in the distinct between use mupty and transactional immunity. the broadest way you can get a defense immunity facing an investigation like this is that you want the broadest and biggest umbrella possible protecting you so you cannot be prosecuted for information that you share about your behavior. and that is what is at its core in this case. we already nose know there's
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information out there about him possibly misleading the vice president. but the real issue in the core is whether or not he has shared information either with trump himself or with the white house counsel about what his dealings were and that's the core of the perjury clause and the perjury issues that prosecutors are investigationing right now and thinking about for potential charges. so that is what is going on behind the scene. >> and how common is a request like this and was the president right when he said if you're asking for immunity, you did something wrong. >> well, there's the perception political ily, right? and there is a shadow of potential guilty. but certainly when you have legal jeopardy in the context of an ongoing investigation and congressional inquiries, this is quite common. what is unusual, though, is to have somebody of this stature asking for the immunity at this early a stage.
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>> what does that tell you? >> a couple things. one, i think they want to get ahead of the narrative here.they don't want to be respond to go subpoenas and then requesting. so they're trying to get ahead of the curve a bit, i think. i think you have the fact that this is a political environment. this is taking on political tones that are very dangerous in a sense. so if the you're the counsel for general flynn, certainly you want to give him counsel to protect himself as early as possible and not just legally, but also in the court of public opinion. but we're going to do it under certain conditions and conditions that will protect you from liability. >> and adam schipp just tweeted, the public should learn a lot more about why general flynn wants immunity when salliates testifies before the house intelligence committee. paul, what do you expect from this and will we learn more?
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>> you're going to learn more because i think all the prosecutors and investigators are going to ask for a profer and they're going to want him to outline more details about what that unrestricted conversation would look like and then they'll be balancing whether or not that information is more important than the investigation that they already have with their target and suspects in terms of the bigger picture about whether or not the white house council will information beforehand and whether or not donald trump had information beforehand from mike flynn. that's what's happening. that is what everyone is evaluating and what they're trying to see, if they're going to offer him this immunity and what that immunity will look like. and what that is going to look like versus the potential of that damaging information against the a administration. >> and then there is this other big story that congressman nunes related to wiretap claims from officials working at the white house. juan, you worked at the white
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house in national security. what did you think when you heard these reports? >> another unforced error, right? why is this happening? a crossing of both issues and responsibilities. the committee has a responsibility to investigate this. the chairman has a responsibility over that. the white house has its own responsibilities with respect to how it manages intelligence, how it manages its own investigations with the congress. this muddies the picture, obviously, creates perceptions of collusion, which is now why chairman nunes is being asked to perhaps recruise himself and i just thought, look, this is another unforced error. it's also a little bit too much cloak and dagger. the chairman has access to intelligence. if you have a reference to an intelligence piece, a report, that could be conveyed. you don't have to have him over to the white house. and at the end of the day, the white house has access to the intelligence it needs. so it struck me as a very
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impatient move and one that created a needless confusion and potentially even conflict at this point. >> juan, good to see you. paul, thanks to you, as well. and up next, president trump will sign two executive orders focusing on trade today. less than a week before the chinese president comes for a visit. is president trump trying to send a stern message ahead of next week's visit? we'll be right back. for lower back pain sufferers, the search for relief often leads here. today there's drug-free aleve direct therapy. a high intensity tens device that uses technology
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president trump is expected to sign two exec fif orders today and delivering on campaign promise to combat trade abuses. his first order will commission a report to identify which trade practices are contributing to the u.s. deficit, trade deficit. the ekd order aims to step up the collection of anti-dumping fines. the orders come one week before trump is set to meet with the chinese president. and he tweeted yesterday, quote, the meeting next week with china will be difficult if that we can no longer have massive trade deficits and job losses. american companies must be willing to look at other alternativ alternatives. let me bring back the panel. do you think this is the right time to roll out these orders? >> i think it's the right time. he's been talking about this for over a year.
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we have so many problems with companies in america that have shifted theirobs overseas, manufacturing jobs and companies here sufferingecause of dumping and currency manipulation. it shows that no matter what noise is going around on other issues, that the president is committed to continuing fulfilling his promises. >> is it going to fulfill these promises? >> no. it's more talk, no action. he didn't promise voters he would come to wauk and issue an report about trade. he said specifically in october that within his first 100 days he would get congress to pass the outsourcing act. he hasn't even sent a bill to congress. he promised he would fix nafta. story today,' he's gnot going tear up nafta. it's not changing things. it's manufactuore of the same. >> i want to ask what's going on with the supreme court. this is what people voted on,
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particularly republican voters. this was the number one issue for them, the supreme court. two democratic senators now heidi camp of north dakota and jo manchin, both say they're going to vote to confirm. what are the chances that other democrats follow the lead? >> i think a few will but there will be more than enough to hold the 41 that the democrats needs to sustain the filibuster. they can afford to lose seven and still do that. they've lost two. but you see a unity in the caucus. and judge gorsuch pled the fifth for his hearing. didn't answer questions, didn't give senators in the middle real excuse to vote for him. >> apart from the vote you have the question of do you blow up the rules of the senate to get him confirmed. john mccain wants to sit down, talk to the democrats and see is there a way not to change the game. what do you think is going to happen here? >> to take a point with him --
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>> is the clear option a good idea? >> you have somebody out there for 20 hours testifying. each senator on that ask committee had over an hour to question this man about his qualifications. many of the same people admitted before the hearings they were going to fill burt didn't fulfill their entire hour. for them to say he didn't answer questions is ridiculous. you had one senator yesterday, duckworth say i'm voting against him because he didn't come by' see me. that's pretty petty. in about 30 minutes, hillary clinton is going to speak on the state of women in the politics. but with michael flynn's immunity request will brought up? stick with msnbc to find out. kevin kevin kevin kevin kevin kevin kevin
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and that wraps up this hour. coming up right now, more news with hallie jackson. >> hgood morning on this friday. what a way to end the week. two breaking stories with the potential to upend washington. up first, president trump's dismissed form i national security adviser is not disappearing. retired general mike flynn now seems ready to talk with quote a story to tell. and that has plenty of people talking here this morning, including powerful demeanoocratd the president himself who is doing an aboutface after slamming immunity in the campaign. a third person has been named by the washington post as having some role in the revelations devin nunes made public last
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week. what are the white house officials saying? well not much for now. >> i'm not talking to anything. >> i have no idea. >> can you tell us anything, any information about the current investigation going on by chairman nunes? >> nothing to say. >> we got a lot to talk about and an all-star team with all of the developments. another meg a ga panel, kacy hunt on if hill, pete williams and plus two other reporters behind today's bombshell reports here with us, carol lee and on the set, matteo gold and msnbc contributor jeremy peters of the "the new york times." lots to discuss. hans, first to you. start with what the white house and what the president is saying about these overnight developments related to the guy he basically fired six weeks ago, mike flynn. >> reporter: the question is


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