tv MSNBC Live MSNBC April 15, 2017 1:00pm-2:01pm PDT
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fuel it fuel your hair. because strong is beautiful. i'm richard lui at mchsnbc headquarters. you're watching live pictures out of berkeley, california. 1:01 local time. this is a group of protesters as well as those who support donald trump with the case of tax reform and as well related to his taxes -- the tax returns themselves from donald trump. what we understand at the moment is that nine have been arrested related to some violence that has broken out there in downtown berkeley, california. it is a little quiet now. we had reports of tear gas being used. this being a the chopper cam we have above zooms into some of those who are on the ground.a t have above zooms into some of
those who are on the ground. th have above zooms into some of those who are on the ground. man in the center in shirt and shorts in red, white and blue. and this is u.just one protest across the country related to what has been call tax marches. wanting the president of the united states to release his taxes which he has not done. the first president not to do so since richard nixon. and here is just a man that you can see of the tax marches that are happening just in the united states. our last count, about 150. you can see the dots on the left hand side in california. berkeley is one of those locations. we'll continue to watch what is happening there in berkeley, california, as well as the other states throughout this hour. again, the request here from those who are there, donald trump please release your taxes. and then there are those who support the president's decision not to release his tax return. also part of this is morgan
radford who has been watching some of those who are marching in new york city. she's there very close to trump tower where earlier and it seems like the energy is still palpable at 4:00 in the afternoon of those who really want their voice to be heard. >> reporter: that's right. in fact we're just outside trump tower, you can see it, these are the people for those who aren't familiar with new york city, this is fifth avenue. we have seen crowds stretching all the way to sixth avenue and they are still coming. i've been out here since about 11:30, noon today and hundreds of people were gathering then anticipating this rally. it began at 1:00 and it's still going strong. i want to introduce you to some people. sir, what is your name? >> karl winter. >> tell me, why are you out here? >> well, i think it's time that we did what we could to change the trump policy, trump agenda. and -- >> what about his agenda bothers you?
>> well, a pretty much everythi. it seems to be an abrogation of the american traditions of absorbing imgrafrnmigrants in t country, not seeking military solutions to every problem. >> and what about the taxes? >> we need to have taxes that reflect the american values and those taxes therefore historically were based on income and helping the most needy. and now we have one that just seems to reward the oligarchy. >> so:again you're looking at tp tower. and people say we want to show a message of solidarity. they're saying we acknowledge that he may not in fact release his tax returns, but they want trump administrati president trump and high school cabinet members to know that they are here and they are watching. and the argument for the six organizations that have organized this rally, thousands already appearing here in new york and we have also seen them turn out in philadelphia,
boston, but they're saying look, this is about accountability. we as citizens, those of us work people, immigrant, we have to file our taxes and you as the public leader, we consider this to be a responsibility of yours and deliver a public account of your contributions. listen to this. they're saying lock him up, lock him up. look at these sign, they say show us your taxes in russian. a lot of the things that we heard are people saying we can't tell if there is something more nefarious at play. they're saying we don't know if there are connections to foshren entities that are improper, we don't know if you're hiding something or colluding with people in ways that are inappropriate. so they are saying if you have nothing to hide, and we spoke earlier to debra messing, she had a very imbpassioned message and she said if you have nothing to hide, what is the problem? that's what we're hearing today. >> any sense here of these being
democratic supporters versus republican supporters? >> reporter: i'm glad you asked that question because at least two of the people who i spoke to just in the past hour, they said look, this isn't about being republican, this isn't about being democrat, this is about being an accountable american public. >> morgan, also because we have been watching berkeley, california, we have pictures for our viewers in the lower right hand side where there has been scuffles or reports of fireworks and pepper spray, any indication of difficulties in the march that you have there in manhattan? any reports of that? >> reporter: so far no. and you know, richard, as you know, that is something as journalists that we always have to be prepared for when we cover protests like this. and i have been covering these since before the inauguration and when we saw these protests bubble up, i'd say for the most part, they have been very peaceful. and this one in particular not
only has it been peaceful, it's been pretty creative. through their sign, showing humor, showing some wittiness. but it's been peaceful and creative. >> all right. morgan radford there in new york city following that story for us, the tax marches happening across the country. stroers we'll ke of course we'll keep an eye on berkeley, california and as well as other cities as we are seeing some arrest, nine in berkeley, alone. back to this live picture again. there was an orange core dodon were on both sides of the issue. it appears not to be there now. i saw some evidence of it earlier, but that may have led to the reports that we have seen which is the reports of pepper spray being used as well as fireworks being thrown into the crowds. mutual aid resources have been requested, as well. that's what we are hearing. and of course in these sorts of marches, you have those who just want to march. and then you have those who don't want to just march and may
not represent what the overall intent of that particular activity is. and in this case to say to president trump please release your tax returns. we'll keep an eye on that for you as we go throughout this hour. another big topic that we're following, this is an important one because it is nightin north korea. in t officials there threatening today and all out war if the u.s. launches any preemptive strike. it was anticipated that north korea might conduct a nuclear test today on that country's most important holiday. it has not happened. a show of military might from kim jong-un though in a massive public display on a saturday rolling out a new prototype of a long range missile potentially. experts say they carry improved capabilities, not immediately clear how ready they are for use, but officials bracing for a sixth nuclear test, or the first ever test of a missile that
could reach u.s. shores and beyond. the missiles were accompanied by tens of thousands of soldiers celebrating the birth of their country's founding father. president trump monitoring the situation from mar-a-lago in florida. vice president mike pence headed into the crisis the heart of it the there, in seoul tonight about 30 miles from north korea. janice mackey freyr is in seoul with the latest. >> reporter: with tension extremely high here, there was a massive parade of missiles and military hardware in pyongyang. the regime has promised a big event to mark this important day on the calendar and it certainly delivered. experts believe there was at least one or as many as three new types of entintercontinenta ballistic missile. the sort of weaponry kim jong-un has threatened will be capable of reaching the united states. kim was there watching the show, also backing the latest threat from the regime that if -- that
the u.s. faces all-out war and annihilation if north korea is attacked. there is an area of the world that is familiar with this sort of tension, but what distinguishes this escalation from past crises is the role of china. china is emerging as a broker, as the main ally of north korea and the country's economic life line. china is urging both sides to back down to avoid having a situation spiral out of control. as it stands, neither side appears to be willing to do so. the risk of course is that a small mistake could lead to terrible consequences. >> janice, thank you so much for that report from seoul. live pictures right now, this is in alaska, anchorage, the vice president on his way to seoul for a pre-planned meeting that happened before the current events that we've been reporting on. potentially and possibly a fuel
stop again for the vice president, mike pence, as he does head to seoul south korea,s it in the wee hours of a sunday morning there in seoul, south korea. he will be arriving on a sunday morning and of course the hope from mike pence as well as president trump that nothing will happen overnight. somebody that can help us understand what that thinking might be in north korea, barbara democrat demmick. thanks for being here. you were right in the heart of it when you were bureau chief there. what is the thought you think is going through kim jong-un's mind? again we have to remember he's seen as son of a god there. >> yes. well, kim jong-un is sort of following this old playic of the north koreans to bluster and threaten and try to get his way. i think what is different this time is he has somebody on the other side who is as blustery as he is. and so i think kim jong-un is
not qui prepared to deal with president trump. this is something new. >> and the question is, who is in control here? is it really kim jong-un? or is it the generals that surround him? that's always been the question. >> he's very young. he's in his early 30s. a baby. but i think he's in charge. he's executed and purged a lot of the older generals and i think he is running the show. and i must say, of the same way as his father, they have used these nuclear weapons as way to protect their regime to say, you know, you can't depose us the way you did saddam hussein or omar gard. we have t gadhafi. >> estimated to have four to eight of those nuclear weapons. so the role that president she oig plays right now, it appears that president xi and president trump came to a bit of an understanding. they need to put north korea in a time-out if you will. >> exactly.
north korea and china have been allies going way back to the korean war. but at the moment, relations are water po rare poor. the chinese don't like north koreans creating instability at the border. and so i think the u.s. and chinese interests may coincide now. they want to stop the nuclear development. >> on that note, 4:40 a.m., and i was saying that at the top of the segment, it's nightfall, this is when the north korean leaders prefer to do these tests. what is your thought about the potential new icbm that we have some information on and the reported new submarine launched missile? what do you think, might would he see something testwe see som the next 24 hours? >> it's possible.he we see something tested in the next 24 hours? >> it's possible. they have done 24 missile tests in the last year, so they are common occurrences. most of the analysts i've spoken to think they are not ready to test the ibcm.
they could be wrong. we could get another miss silt te still test or a sixth nuclear test. >> rinlg am conflict, what is your assessment, one to ten, are we higher than we were before? because this is a volatile air. >> sure we are, but we have this same crisis every couple of years to be honest. some of us were saying it's a bit of a groundhog day because north korea likes to push things to the edge and then they usually move back just in time. >> all right. barbara, great to have you in studio. thank you. coming up, you're looking live at portland, oregon. one of those cities that we have been telling you about across the country. people marching to pressure president trump to release his tax returns. back to that story after this. a daily struggle,
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we're keeping an eye on protests throughout the country. this in berkeley, california. the latest information we have here, some brawling, some clashes between pro and anti-trump protesters going violent. nine individuals we believe have been arrested at the moment, 200 people about that number were at berkeley's martin luther king jr.'s civic center. of course berkeley, california known for its protest history and culture. we'll continue to follow what is happening not only in berkeley, but also in the 100 plus cities across the city as it is quite energetic on this saturday afternoon. and as we told you a little earlier, dozens of demonstraglo demonstrations happening across the country. they want him to lease his tax returns. april 15th is traditionally the deadline for filing tax returns as many of you know. katie beck is live in portland,
oregon where the protest is just getting warmed up. and the difference for those just joining us, when you and i were talking about an hour, hour and a half ago, there was nobody behind you. but now that we hit the 1:00 hour, certainly the energy is greater. >> reporter: that's right. the crowd has come out and the spl pl splaz plaza is full. several hundred have arrived. and a lot of folks demanding accountability. as you've seen in protests across the country, demanding that president trump release his tax returns and be accountable for what is in them. one man from portland that we will speak to, mike higgins, your main concern is really about con on fliflicts of inter. >> i think that we need to see donald trump's taxes. there is so much coming out about the russia connection and i believe that after he went bankrupt as a business person he had to go to russia for his
resources. so i really think that if we see his taxes, we will see he of loaned money coming from russia to him. >> reporter: do you suspect the large movement across the country will result in him releasing him? >> not really, but i think if we make a point to congress, that will get -- republicans in the house have to say okay to releasing these taxes. >> reporter: there are several hundred people gathered here, a positive energy. what do you think is the message to washington? >> that we need to have them step up particularly in investigate difference ghits and look for his taxes and continue to pursue all angles to this connection between his campaign and the russians. >> reporter: all right. thank you so much for joining us. as the administration said in january, people aren't so interested in this topic anymore. definitely a lot of people here refuting that theory saying we are still interested. we do still care about this and we do expect him to release those tax returns. back to you. >> pretty consistent messaging
at least coming out from those who are attending these marches. katie beck for us in portland. joining me now is congresswoman brenda lawrence on the house oversight and government reform committee. great to see you here, represent tifd. >> great to be here. today in michigan we had a tax rally as well. our state representatives were really strong on if we want a transparent government, if we are truly understanding that this president is going to drain the swamp, people came out here in michigan mit, as well. >> do you think that these marches that we have seen since the inauguration and for that matter before the inauguration, these gatherings across the country, will translate to him releasing his tax returns? it is not exhibited at least by the expert watchers if you will of donald trump that he does not feel like he needs to do so.
>> this is what is interesting about what is happening. clearly president trump has issues with transparency for a number of reasons. we don't know why. because he is concealing so much and it is actually taking oversight and taking the investigations to peel back all the levels of conflicts that is inherent in his administration. but what is clear when there are statements from his staiks th administration that people don't care about this, over 100 protests across the country, people are coming out to make sure that that message is disputed, that this is an important issue. you have been elected as the president of the united states. what do we expect. we expect accountability, transparency. and absolutely no conflicts. when you are now at the beginning of rolling out your new tax plan, your new tax plans
where there will be benefits to the wealthiest 1% and there will be consequences for those in lower incomes. why are you doing that? is this benefiting you personally? >> one of the topics that normally comes up along with what are these tax marches on this april 15th tax day, is also what will happen with tax reform. what do you hope to happen nn conversation, the president and his administration has not made this a benchmark to discuss this very topic. >> this has been our challenge congress. since this new administration has taken over, 70% of what wec. congress. since this new administration has taken over, 70% of what weo. congress. since this new administration has taken over, 70% of what wen. congress. since this new administration has taken over, 70% of what we. congress. since this new administration has taken over, 70% of what we . since this new administration has taken over, 70% of what we . since this new administration has taken over, 70% of what we somewhere have voted on has been repeals of past administration. so where is this president's administration or vision for tax reform. he says things. we look at who he surrounded himself with. we know that it's a billionaire
administration. so clearly he has boldly said that i take advantage of tax loopholes. and that makes me smart. so where are we going with tax reform? and as you can see, the latest distractions with russia and everything else, i haven't heard a clear concise plan on what tax reform is going to be and that is concerning for us in congress as is what we just can went through with the repeal and replace of the affordable care act. which was not a thought-out inclusive plan. so where are we going with this? time will only tell. >> democratic representative brenda lawrence from michigan, thank you and have a good afternoon. >> thank you. coming up, a big debate in arkansas about the executions of seven men that have been temporarily put on hold after a judge's ruling. the latest next.
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breaking news out of berkeley, california. and the latest numbers that we've got here, nine arrests, you see some remnants here of what may have been the orange barricade that was meant to separate those who are both information donald trump releasing his tax returns and those who are not. on the phone with me right now is christy smith from kntv who has been watching this for us. what are you seeing on the ground there? >> reporter: well, i can tell you that as of right now across the street from civic center park and that is downtown berkeley where those supporting president trump and those who are against him faced off this morning, right now i have to tell you what i'm seeing is that the park itself is mostly empty. and that is because violence did break out as you said, berkeley police arresting nine people. they are standing by, they have riot gear on. and many of the people both for and against have spilled on to the side streets.
we have seen fights break out. berkeley police initially when people were arriving, they had the orange fencing up and they had it roped off. and what they were trying to do initially was greet people as they were putting out and they put out a long list of about 20 items that would not be acceptable to bring to the event and they included things like bats and metal pipes. initially they were screening people for that. but the crowds were very large, several hundred people. and fights broke out between people. and you can see in part some of that tension coming down. there were fireworks going off. we saw a number of people taken away pulled out of the crowd by berkeley police taken into custody. we saw a number of people with bloody noses, told us that they were punched in all this. there was a similar protest earlier in the year and that also led to violence.
and we saw somewhat it seem less violence perhaps than the last event, but much of that happening again. and right now people are throwing fireworks into the crowd and you see that going off. and then you see the crowd moving because people are fighting or those fireworks are going off or some sort of flash bang sound. from our angle, we're not seeing police doing this, this is people in the crowd doing this. so again the park itself is somewhat empty, but people -- >> christy, can you hear me? >> informatifor and against are in the street. >> i'm not sure if you can hear me. uc berkeley is in session. did you see students participating in these marches on this tax march, and number two, as is common in berkeley, california because of its churl of froesprotests, there are in e instigators that show up unrepresented to either side of
this very topic on the street. indications of either of those that you saw quickly? >> reporter: i have to tell you that is a great question and unless someone is carrying a sign that specifically says who they support, it's very difficult to tell. and the reason is that many, many people in the crowd on both sides have masks covering part of their face. those who support trump are wearing helmets, things to protect themselves from being hit. we've seen pepsi cans flying in the air and bottles flying in the air. the people don't want to get hit. a lot of people have on protective clothing. so it's very difficult to tell exactly where they're from. i can tell you that a lot of people in the crowd do look young, younger. maybe in their 20s. but it's hard to tell at this point if they're students or not. >> kntv christy smith on the ground for us. berkeley, california. these pictures evidently a garbage fire if you will, small
albeit on the ground in an intersection there in berkeley, california. this as it's 1:31 in the afternoon and we have seen what christy was describing so well for us, those who are for and against requesting that president trump lease his tax returns. you can see some of law enforcement appear to berelease returns. you can see some of law enforcement appear to be dressed in black. we'll continue to keep an eye on whatis happening in berkeley and as well as the other 100 locations across the country. and we're also watching this. there is a series of schedule executions that are sparking fierce debate in arkansas. beginning on monday, seven inmates were set to be executed over the next 11 days. but a new ruling has temporarily halted all executions frustrating some officials and delighting protesters along the way. this morning arkansas attorney general leslie rutledge filed an emergency petition with the state supreme court asking that today's injunction be lifted.
she said it's, quote,ing unfortunate that a u.s. district judge has schoen cho chosen to side with the difficult convicted prisoners in one of their last minute attempts to delay justice. again, part of that statement. capital punishment is one of the most controversial issues in the u.s. justice system, the subject of a you into dock could ykcou . the producer of the series is joining us. thanks for being with us. >> thanks for having me. almost didn't get here because of the protests. >> exactly. to the topic that we're on right now, and that is the issue of the executions impending in arkansas, you were just there. and from your expertise and dealing with other states like oklahoma, across the country, what do you think is happening,
what do you think will happen? >> i think there is a spotlight being put on executions and in arkansas because of these drugs. arkansas was rushing to kill eight people because the expiration date of the drugs were upon them and it's hard to get new drugs. and there is a reason it's hard to get new drugs. the drug companies themselves don't feel that this is good for killing people. in fact supreme court in arkansas issued a stay because these drugs were deceptively gotten. and a federal judge feels like midazolam which is one of the three drugs in the cocktail -- >> and they never used it in arkansas before. >> right. and we've seen people in oklahoma writhing in pain, lockett and warner, these people writhing in pain. these are not effective ways of killing people. >> what is different in arkansas than in the state of oklahoma
which you documented so well? what are the comparisons? >> interestingly in oklahoma, the supreme court actually said it was okay to use midazolam and richard who was with an innocent guy on death row who is the subject of my show was within minutes of being executed, but they realized they had the wrong can execution drugs and they have halted executions in oklahoma temporarily, but those executions will start imminently, we think this summer. and here is an innocent guy. so my feeling is no drug is effective for killing an innocent person and richard is on death row and is innocent. and that's the big issue. the focus right now is what is the best way to kill people. but the reality is that we've seen over 150 people exonerated from death row who are innocent. and so as much as i don't want to tell a victim's family member that they don't deserve to feel the need closure and vengeance,
you have a system wrrun by huma beings who make mistakes. you cannot have a system that kills an innocent person. so while the foe xwus is on the efficacy of these drugs, while the focus is on should it be this drug or that drug -- >> are you're right, that has not been the headline. thec them being guilty in question is not the headline. to that very point of these eight men, who were or are on death row, you've actually gotten into the minds of such individuals. and now they're in a limb bo lw l lili nch lin mbows. >> some are mentally incompetence. and that is one of problems. but i know from talking to richard that three times he's
had three last meals, three times he's been almost executed. on top of that, that's for a crime he didn't commit. can you imagine sitting in death row and going throughout protocols? it there is a whole protocol you go through before you're executed and you're actually innocent. so these guys who, you know, go back and forth and learn they will be executed and then learn they are not, it's very traumatic. but the larger issue, there is a fundamental problem with the death penalty. and i hope that even though we're focusing on what drugs are effective or not effective, we really should be focusing on whether there should be a death penalty or not. >> that certainly is one of the debates and the times of the way this works is often sudden and quick and therefore we have these thematics that you and i are talking about. joe, thank you so much. his docu-series airs monday and tuesday night at 9:00 p.m. eastern on investigation discovery. as the world anxiously awaits north korea's next move, concerns in the united states about the danger a conflict with
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the words from the administration are creating even higher volume in terms of the provocations that are going on. i think we have to be careful here. there is a reason no u.s. president in recent history has pulled the trigger on north korea. >> leon panetta, former defense secretary and cia chief under president obama. there telling andrea mitchell the u.s. is indeed risking nuclear conflict. this as pyongyang rolled out its military might on a saturday. what experts also believe to be in there a new long range missile or two undetermined or confirmed yet. white house raising the stakes sending what president trump is calling an armada into the western pacific ocean. let's bring in lewis nelson and
emily kaday. emily, when we look at this, any sign the white house is interested in talking with north korea, the bilateral request that the north so wants? >> i think that is a nonstarter at this point. i think what the without hite h focused on is talking to china. they want china to put a lot more pressure on the north koreans, they are one of the few countries that still have leverage through trade and economic support. >> as we look at this, one of the questions at least with donald trump question is not only the bilateral discussion, but are the relationships strong enough at the moment with a president xi, with the south korean government, no ambassador there as yet, to effect this indirect strategy to get kim jong-un and north korea to do what the united states wants? >> i think you've seen the
president try to get those relationships especially with xi of china to the point where president trump can excerpt a little bit of influence over china to exert influence over north korea. that is something thaterpt a little bit of influence over china to exert influence over north korea. that is something thatt a little bit of influence over china to exert influence over north korea. that is something that both parties have tried do in the past. this is not a new approach. >> emily, the threat level, sense there in the beltway, how concerned folks are in the space on the hill at the white house about a potential conflict between north korea and the united states? what are you seeing? >> i think there is rising concern just because the north koreans have advanced their missile capabilities and nuclear cape ands over the last several years. and there is a lot of unpredictable right now. i mean, theands over the last s years. and there is a lot of unpredictable right now. i mean, the trufrd trump administration being fairly new to the game and of course you have someone in north korean
leader who is also pretty unpredictable. so that is always a dangerous mix. >> mike pence the vice president expected to be there overnight in south korea in seoul. 30 miles arm from north korea. rex tillerson also, soeecretaryf state, being on the road. jared kushner. where is that north korean policy coming from? >> i think that it's kind of hard to say. donald trump certainly at least in terms of dealing with china has beens person really pushing this narrative, pushing this idea that china needs to work to corral north korea to kind of rein in kim jong-un and if they can do that, he's willing to offer more favorable terms when it comes to trade deals and things like that. you've already seen the president give a little bit especially when it comes to labeling china a currency manipulator, something he promised do during the presidential campaign. so at least publicly donald
trump has been the guy who has been pushing things forward. >> are we also seeing hr mcmaster, national security adviser, are we also seeing the secretary of defense making moves here in a way that may be influencing president trump to, if you will, be more in a straight line as opposed to not being in a straight line when it comes to domestic and foreign affairs? >> i think we are seeing more influence as these guys get their deputies and their staff in order, as they sort of work outlines of command with the white house that these generals are shaping the president's policy making more and you're seeing that a whole range of issues whether it's syria, northeast asia, korean peninsula or afghanistan. >> and lewis, congress, they are not necessarily fully behind as a whole of this president, what he's doing in north korea. what do you think the next step might be if any from the leaders on the hill? >> you know, i think that too
remains to be seen. they are on recess. republican leadership at least thus far has been in pretty much lock step with donald trump on almost every issue. but there are certainly folks within the republican party who are a little bit more hez tansi who aren't quite so hawkish as others might be. and then also the democrats to deal with who have also been a mixed bag. some a little bit more hawkish, more willing to step up a little bit and forcefully meet north korea. others a little more hesitant. >> the dovish democrats and the america first republicans is what he has to face. thank you both. coming up, attorney general jeff sessions threatening to cut federal funding for sanctuary cities as part of the president's overall crackdown on immigration. up next i'll talk to the mayors of two cities taking very two
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this is a new era.era. this is the trump era. the lawlessness, the abd indication of dudy to enforce our loss and the catch and release policies of the past are over. >> the at the border in arizona attorney general jeff sessions tougher and withholding federal funding from so-called sank tear cities. >> i strongly urge our nation states and cities and counties to consider carefully the harm they are doing to their citizens by refusing to enforce our immigration laws, and to rethink these policies. >> withholding federal funding from sanctuary cities gets its first legal test now.
san francisco and santa clara county officials were in court friday. they asked a judge to block that action. at risk? some $2.7 billion in federal funds, according to afp. another city did not want to take that risk of losing funding. lansing, michigan, decided to remove its sanctuary city status just this week. the midwestern city veereceives about $6.5 million each year. i'm joined by sam liccarto, mayor of san jose, the hearing happened yesterday. you were probably watching it closely. any indication on where this judge will rule on your county's request to block federal fund withholding? >> well, richard, it appears that the justice department attorneys themselves backtrack
quite a bit on the breadth of the executive order, really admitting essentially the tenth amendment is going to severely constrain what the trump administration is able to withhold, based on the questions that we're hearing from the bench, it sounds as though we are likely to be successful at least at this level, we suspect there will be subsequent appeals, but really for us, more than anything, this is an issue of public safety. i'm a former criminal prosecutor, former federal prosecutor and former d.a. and we are less safe if undocumented immigrants or their family members are reluctant to call 911 or reluctant to talk to the police about gang activity, or to testify in court, and you need to have a strong relationship between your community and your police department, and you can't do that if they believe that the police department is being enlisted by i.c.e. or the immigration authorities. >> are your voters worried, maymay y mayor liccardo of the potential
money pulled away at risk of being called a sanctuary city? >> for a city like san jose we have a $ billion general fund. what's at risk here is probably just a couple hundred thousand dollars. we do not depend that heavily on federal money for law enforcement and it's fairly clear that the supreme court's been pretty consistent that the federal government can't withhold funding on some of these other programs that are unrelated to the particular rule that they're seeking to enforce, and so we don't think there's a lot at risk for us. there's quite a bit more for counties certainly but i think certainly the city of san jose has had the same policy in place for decades. i don't see us changing. >> mayor bonera, you've seen some change in the last week. your great city of lansing, michigan, the council there voted differently. they decided to take away that name sanctuary city. the vote was 5-2 and it was 6-0 before. why do you think the change? what happened there?
>> the council is divided. i am not. i stand with may quor liccardo and applaud his courage in standing up to the bullies of the trump white house and jeff sessions. when he says it's a trump era, our concern is that era to be an era of discrimination, hate and bigotry and that's what we're fighting. i issued an executive order on the same day the council passed its original resolution and that order stands, which is that we will not tolerate discrimination. we will not profile on the basis of senator inor immigration. the council was subject to political pressure, and that's democracy, but the fact is -- >> where was the political pressure coming from? >> it certainly came from the chamber of commerce, but largely from the business community. i assume that the republican party got activated, and got busy and you know, we don't run on parties in lansing, and so everybody sort of claims to be a democrat, but i doubt that that's actually true, so whatever. you had partisan politics and
politics in general play itself out. the reality is we are going to stand with cities like san jose because the executive order will see to it that our police department does not become an extension of i.c.e. we'll enforce the law. the mayor said it beautifully. we're safer when people feel good talking to the police. we have a community place policing concept and approach. under our charter the mayor runs the police department so we're going to continue down that path which builds bridges instead of walls because it keeps everybody safer. >> mayor liccarrdo of san jose, 60 seconds to you. when we look at the d.o.j., lawyers say the suit should be dropped because the crawlback hasn't happened yet. your response? >> the problem is that they're trying to enforce changes in policy at the local level by using this threat, and that is a very real injury and certainly a real injury out in california, where we've got tens of thousands of residents in my city living in fear right now.
we need to be able to get everybody to calm down. we don't want parents to fear taking their kids to school. we don't want parents failing to show up at work because they're afraid. we need everybody to be able to go about their lives. >> mayor bernaro, last word to you. tell us about the undocumented community and how they're reacting to the debate we're seeing right now. >> like the mayor said there is fear in the undocumented and immigrant community. what he's talking about, jeff session, a new era, the problem is, is it going back to a time when people get pulled over when people get looked at because of the color of their skin. and we don't want to go there and we're still fighting that in this country. every week there's an incident somewhere in the country where the fact is being a person of color still puts you somewhat at risk. we should be fighting bigotry and racism and they're going about this the rock way. we should look at keeping every safe with community policing and allow i.c.e. to do its job.
>> sam liccardo and verge benero, thank you so much. two cities going different places on sanctuary cities. i'm richard lui. yasmim vossoughian picks it up right after this. remote moisture sensors use a reliable network to tell them when and where to water. so that farmers like ray can compete in big ways. china. oh ... he got there. that's the power of and.
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