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tv   MSNBC Live  MSNBC  May 3, 2017 12:00pm-1:01pm PDT

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toughest foreign policy challenge in our lifetime may not be as difficult as people thought? >> i think both these leaders have discussed the confidence they have in the president's negotiating skills, in the president's desire to work to get peace. the prince william he's built with them individually and the trust and respect that they have for them. and i think that he in discussions with them, in private discussions with them, feels very optimistic about the shared goal that everybody has. obviously, there are a lot of issues that have to get covered. but the president understand that's they respect his ability to want to get this done. the relationship that's have been developed. this is something that he wants to have happen. >> why even monkey around with pre-existing conditions? that's the most popular they know in obamacare. why are you guys spinning your wheels messing around with pre-existing conditions? >> i wouldn't call it messing around or however you phrased
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it. i think the president wants to do everything -- >> right now people with pre-existing conditions are covered and not discriminated against. your change to a system where who the hell knows what will happen? it depends on what state they're in. if they live in this state, that governor may seek waiver. they're thrown into a system where hopefully fund will cover their pre-existing conditions. it is a big change for people who live with those kinds of illnesses. is it not? >> the big change, i guess we have very different view of this. my view, the president's view, if you have a pre-existing condition, and you no longer have a health care provider, or your premiums, your deductibles are going through roof, then you don't have coverage. what i'm saying to you -- >> it is not the same. why change pre-existing conditions? >> we're not. we're strengthening. we have done everything to not
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only strengthen but to guarantee -- >> here's my waiver and no more -- >> sure. i think the fundamental point that seems to be getting lost is that if you have obamacare right now, in case after case, you are losing it. so if you have a pre-existing condition and you have a card that says obamacare but no one will see you, then you don't have coverage. >> why not fix that in. >> we are. we're guaranteeing it. >> why not just keep that -- >> the president has made it very clear that pre-existing cdc covered in the bill under every scenario. >> so someone with a pre-existing condition under trump care, they'll be fine. without question. >> yes. >> i want to follow up on health care. i want dwroto know why the push pushing so hard, it is literally impossible to an lies the impact
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on the health care system. why not wait for that analysis to come out? >> the vote will happen, i've said it eight times now. our job is to work as hard as we can to work members of congress who want to see their health care system improved. that's what we've double. and so it will be up to the house leadership to decide when to vote. >> you just made a guarantee to the american people to have pre-existing conditions -- before, that literally impossible to know impact of the law. how can you make guarantee? >> they were asking about cost. the president has made it very clear on numerous occasions that he is going to make sure that pre-existing conditions are covered. >> so the white house has the natural stois back that up. >> every scenario, yes regarding the president's tweet, tend reason the president spent tweet
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was he was frustrated by democrats spiking the zpoobl there by poisoning the well for future negotiations. the presidt when he was mpaigng said he would win for all americans. >> he does want to win for every american. that's why he's fought so hard for this. you've seen time and time again democrats obstruct routine ningds they are supposedly for to do everything they can on obstruct. i think the president is frustrated with the system. he's talked about how archaic it is. he's out there working to try to get, whether it is health care or tax reform or his cabinet through senate. there are various things that the president is trying to do that are issues when he's having conversations with the issues. he is understandably frustrated with how hard he's working to achieve the promises, goals, and objective that's he set without
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the american people to make the country better and to deal with multiple layers of obstruction. >> thanks. so you've cited this 60-vote threshold as a reason why funding for the wall wasn't pursued in this spending bill. what will be different in september? presumably the legislative conditions will be the same so what will change between now and spent will give you confidence for the border wall then in. >> multiple things. when you come in, this cr, there was a lot carried over from last time. it is not just a continuing resolution. it is the total package meaning there are multiple bills that are part of the underlying package that have increases or underlying policy there the previous fiscal year, from the previous congress, from the previous administration. this bill will reflect 20 teen president's priorities in with a republican house and senate. thank you guys very much. we'll see you tomorrow many new york. have a good one.
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? sean spicer closing off the white house press briefing today. he talked about a number of issues including the continued show and tell about how the continuing resolution to keep the government open is including funding for a border wall, even though it isn't. he also talked about the president's meeting wither mahmoud abbas talking about moving the u.s. embassy to jerusalem which would inflame passions in the area. but most importantly, whether people with pre-existing conditions would be covered under the newly revised and again revised american health care act. there has been a significant change tom act which is designed to get a lot more of the moderate republicans to vote for it. yesterday we were short of about two votes. the republicans were short before two votes from getting it
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passed. this may make a difference. we'll continual to talk about that through the course of the show. we've got it all covered. kristen welker is in the white house briefing room for us. kelly o'donnell, mike vaccera, nbc news justice correspondent pete williams is covering fbi director comey's testimony, and michael o'hanlon at the brookings institution joins us. kelly o'donnell, let's start with you. a lot of ground covered from sean spicer today. a lot of it on health care. it didn't sound like most of the reporters were getting clarity that they were seeking. >> reporter: well, the white house has something to answer for. the president has publicly said over the last weeks that coverage for those with pre-existing medical conditions would be available and would be affordable. and yet this late term where we have some members of the house republican conference coming to
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the white house, speaking to the president, was dealing with that very issue. through the conversations the president has had, he apparently now agrees that there needed to be additional resources devoted to that topic. some members of his own party, they are senior members with a lot of knowledge on that topic. one was on the committee that handle ts health care, concerned about what would happen to his own constituents. so this additional money to beef up the pool system for those in the high risk category is something appears will be an agreed upon part of bill. we don't have the full language yet. we don't know if there will be additional changes but the president was moved along on this to. give you a sense of how the white house views it, sean spicer described the behind the scenes conversation that led to the point. >> report thor asked a question
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toward the pend undersxo, towar the end that this has not been scored. this vote will take place when the speaker and his deputies deep that they have enough votes to get it done. very, very strange. major legislation without a score. >> i think they're that desperate for a victory here. a major legislative victory to make good on what is essentially an eight-year promise by republicans. put us in power and we will repeal and replace obamacare. obviously they haven't been able to do that. what we're considering on the floor can be more of a modification. still they're having difficulty rounding, not one democrat expected to go i know what that proposal here in the house of representatives. but republicans having trouble rounding up the votes.
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you described the vote count. kelly o'donnell described that two member who's were previously as of yesterday, a no to. republican members. brought down the white house. came away with $8 million for more individuals with pre-existing conditions to throw into that high risk pool. they changed their minds, publicly declared in the driveway that they would go along with it. still unclear how many votes they have. i am standing on the first floor of the capitol. an area known as the row of columns. many here, mike pence, his third consecutive day, trims to the capitol, trying to twist arms, bring along the members, mostly moderate member who's are not comfortable with the pre-existing conditions. you mentioned the score. we don't know what effect significantly, different ini have thely this new score will have on premium ts for those with pre-existing conditions and
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that's part of biggest problem. mark, who have a no, a republican from nevada, in there right behind me with vice president pence talking it over. they are trying on get him to come to the yes side. as of yesterday, it looked like they were getting absolutely nowhere. today after upton and billy emerged from the white house, it appears the tide may have changed but still touch and go. >> he gets a lot of pushback in his state because there are a lot of problems with the insurers there. this is a big problem. stay there for us. we'll be visiting with you. >> what stood out to you? >> a couple things. certainly the issue of pre-existing conditions was the big topic.
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he was pressed on how would it impact those with pre-existing living conditions. i asked if those folks wouldn't wind up paying more and you heard him say, i can't guarantee that. so this will continue to be a messaging challenge for this administration. then you heard another correspondent saying why are you tinkering with pre-existing conditions at all? the obamacare trying make the case that obamacare is collapsing. that's a debatable point. and the point at the top, this hasn't been scored by the cbo. so we haven't seen the hard numbers. what is also striking is that you're seeing president trump really take a stronger role in trying on get this passed. you feel the urgency building behind the scenes at the west wing. he was working the phones overnight and he invited the four lawmakers to the white house. i anticipate that level of outreach will continue.
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he clearly wants to see a vote this week. part of reason there was this urgency, to get this government funding bill passed to add some extra momentum for health care. >> it is important. a lot of republican there's make target umt, and democrats have made it in the past. these cbo scores could be wrong but we have nothing. i would rather look at wrong and say maybe we can go one way or the other. we'll get back to you. i want to bring pete into the discussion. i want to play this from fbi director james comey talking about the decision he made to inform lawmakers about more clinton e-mails just days before the election. >> look, this is terrible. it makes me mildly nauseous to think we might have had impact on the election. but it wouldn't dhaechange the decision. everybody who disagrees has to come back to act on 28 and stare at this. tell me what you would.
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do would you speak or conceal? >> pretty passionate from what we normally see from james comey. he defended himself more than once. we heard a lot about russian interference in elections and wikileaks today. what did you take away from the testimony so far in. >> to understand what you just heard, he was talking about the discovery of thousands of new e-mails new to the fbi on the laptop belonging to huma abedin's husband. it turned out 12 of the e-mails were classified but he said towed decide whether to tell congress about it or not say anything at all. and he said it was an impossible decision. and he said repeatedly, if he had to go back again, he would make the same decision. that noted regrets. on russian influence, he said the russians are still trying to influence american politics. he worries that they'll try to do so in 2018 and 2020. he had this exchange with
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lindsey graham. >> is it fair to say that the russian government is still involved in american politics? >> yes. >> is it fair to say we need to stop them from doing this? >> yes, fair to say. >> do you agree with me, the only way they'll stop is for them to pay a price for interfering in our political process? >> i think that's a fair statement. >> so what we're doing today is not. they're still doing. i they're doing it all over the world, aren't they? >> yes. >> so what kind of threat do you believe russia presents to our democratic process given what bunk russia's behavior of late? >> well, certainly, in my view, the greatest threat of any nation on earth, given their intention and their capability. >> and finally, you asked about wikileaks. he didn't say but he came right up close to saying that the government is preparing criminal charges against wikileaks.
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he made it clear to say that wikileaks is not a journalistic organization. that's a distinction that past administrations have made in not going after wikileaks and that he agreed the intelligence assessment that it is like hostile intelligence power. >> pete, he also implied that he's looking into possible leaks from the new york fbi office that may have taken part during the election. >> he was asked, there is an investigation of various leaks and he said yes, there is, and if he finds out anybody is leaking, there will be consequences. he was specifically asked about claims during campaign that rudolph giuliani who was boring w the campaign had in essence a pipeline how the e-mail investigation was going from agents of the new york fbi. he said no reason to believe that's true but suggested very strongly that the fbi is looking into it. >> thank you very much. i want to bring mike o'hanlon
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into the conversation. comey said that russia poses the greatest threat of any nation on toerth our democratic process. do you agree with that in. >> yes. i don't think anyone else is directly trying to interfere. i think we have pretty good steps available to us to make sure it is not as bad in the future as it was in 2016. so i don't want to make this sound like dire threat to our nation. i'm more worried about russia's nuclear womens than their election engineering. but nonetheless this can morph and present itself in new ways. so i agree mr. comey. >> let me play a little more about what he said about russian interference. >> they'll be back in 2020, maybe in 2018. and one of the lessons they may draw from this is that they were successful. they introduced chaos and division and discord and sowed
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doubt about our the process. >> i hear your point, the world should be generally speaking more concerned about nuclear war or actual war, conventional war. but there is something to be said for staying on this topic. if as james comey says, they'll come back and it is confusion and chaos, that could ultimately really undermine u.s. democracy. >> yes. there are two general thrusts i think we need to do better. of course, we've already raised consciousness. you've done that with the show today. we need to have greater ability what news we see has in some way been vouched for or vetted. there's no such thing as hard facts to every issue but we need to have some way of understanding when things have been vetted. and american citizens in general need on look to certain places for more dependable news.
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that's part of the debate. also, mr. comey touched on russia would try to change vote tallies. that's a whole different form of voting interference. they could do that next time. we need to think of this it's a a major cyber threat since our computer systems are what tallies vote counts west need to be able to double-check, do recounts. i'm not sure it has to be chad recount hard copy. but we need to have ways to vouch for the integrity of the vote counts, expecting russia to change those numbers. >> it being 2017 and 2018 when we have the election, we probably have the election to figure that out. what happens there in terms of figuring out that they don't sow the day sxos confusion through fake news, is that a job for intelligence? is that a job for google and facebook?
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or is it a job for american voters to become more discerning about how they had consume their news? >> that's a great question. i think american voters are becoming more discerning because they were surprised by what happened last year. and of course, president obama didn't alert people about the suspicions about the russian roles when he might have, so the report came out in december to underscore that russia had been taken sides. whether you're a trump supporter or clinton or something else, you now know that russia was involved in a. more blantant way. but social media needs to be more careful, when they allow people to post on their websites, if you're posting news can't be vouched for or is wrong, i think the facebooks of the world are thinking about that more than they had, maybe a little belatedly. but yeah. maybe we need to have the
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government more involved in presenting basic news about the state of the world. state of armed conflict. state of domestic troubles in a way that could be vouxd for. at least for smcome of the basi facts. maybe the voter needs fong there will be governmental repositories that are more easily available to the typical vote order some of the big issues of the day. there's always a go to place if you're unsure of when you're being lied to. that can't apply to every issue. >> my fear is that it needs to be demand side driven. people have to go there and want the information and not just believe the nonsense they're fed. good to see you. coming up next, jimmy kimmel's plea. the revelation drew an outpouring of support and well wishes including from president obama himself. after the break, i'll be joined by joe walsh. you know him.
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the congressmen said they would support the bill after an additional amendment. they had been no votes because of concerns that people with pre-existing conditions might be unable to pay expensive premiums in states thatment on out of certain protections for people with lifelong health problems. people with pre-existing conditions cover their increased costs. a lot of this was stimulated by this jimmy kimmel thing. you then tweeted that got everybody's attention. i want to pull this tweet up. you said sorry, your sad story doesn't obligate me or anyone
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else to pay for someone else's health care. interesting point. but let me and you this. you know that by not paying for everybody else's health care, america ends up paying more per person for health care than any developed country in the world by a lot. >> exactly. that's why jimmy kimmel was off in what he said. no child will not be covered or helped or dealt with. this is what is so frustrating to me. nothing against jimmy kimmel. i don't know him and god speed to his boy. i home he lives a long, long life. but you know better than almost anybody, health care is really complicated and it is bankrupting this country. we don't talk about that. a late night comedian gets all teary eyed and understandably so, and then he gets political and that moves our health care policy? and one more point, i got no doubt that what jimmy kimmel said the other night will move
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republican votes probably tomorrow. i don't think that is healthy. >> so i got you. i don't have that privilege of being able to get emotional about these things. it is not a personal story to me but i'll show you some figures. eye read them to you. let's just talk about health care spending per person in the united states versus other countries. the average of all developed countries, i've used oecd countries, this is from 2015, $3814 per person. this is all spending. insurance, what you pay out of pocket, everything. in the united states, that number is $9451 a person. it strikes me as a conservative and a republican, that's the problem right there. >> bingo. and the reason that's the case is because we don't have a real market for health care. health care is expensive because somebody else is paying for it for most of us. your employer, government, or the insurance company. unless we grow up and most of us take care of our day to day
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health care expenses, this isn't going to change. government should always be there for the needy but the rest of us have got to assume more of these costs. >> let me give you another example. i'm going to rank health care outcomes by country. again. same thing. oecd countries. let's put that up. number one. of all the developed countries in the world. britain is number one. switzerland number two. sweden, number three. these are 11 countries, the united states is dead last. do you know what the other ten countries have in common? there's universal health care if all of those countries. i hear what you're saying and i'm a business guy, joe. i support, i generally think business can do things better than government. but in this case, there isn't a single example in the world of a health care system that runs in a free market. >> you can't come fair rest of the world to us. they do not have the big diverse population that's we have. they do not have the inner city
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populations that we have. i'll tell you what. people on medicaid, i mean, medicaid kills people because of the quality of the care. we can't afford medicaid anymore. all i'm saying is, health care is becoming a bigger, bigger, bigger part of our budget. it is bankrupting this country and we're not having that grown up discussion. and lord knows, look at the mess the the republicans are in now. they're not contributing to this discussion at all. >> i'm with you. you and i are not having a partisan discussion which is what i appreciate. i want to show you another fact. what i'm trying to get you to is that every other country does better than we do and they have proven systems. so let's look at health care outcomes. the best. you mentioned, it is life it's expectancy. canada. 80.7. in all developed countries, 79.3. in the united states sfarks.8. i guess my question is, if everybody does it better than we do, for less money, they live
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longer, why can't we? >> they don't. >> they do. >> no, they don't. and you can't compare those countries to ours. >> why? >> because they do not have our large inner city diverse populations. they don't. you can't compare sweden, norway and great britain to us. here's the other thing. they pay for it. you're not going to do that in america yoflt want to pay, 60, 70% tax rate for a quality of care. by the way, the quality of care in those countries is not the quality of care in this country. >> hold on. why do you care about quality of care if you live longer? i'm going to show you the last one. u.s. performance rankings in terms of actual quality of care. quality of care in the u.s. comes out fifth out of 11. access to health care, ninth out of 11. efficiency, quality, and living healthy lives, 11 out of 11. there's no where we succeed. this is best country in the world with the biggest economy.
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we just don't get i right anywhere. >> we have the highest quality of care which is why people come here. >> very few people come to america. very few people come to america for health care. rich people come the america for health care. >> for the best quality of care in the world. absolutely. the problem is, we have medicaid that's broke, medicare that's broke, social security that's broke, and now we just got another entitlement called obamacare will bankrupt this country. >> so how do i convince you that for all those outcomes. if you want to live a healthier life, better access to health care, you want to live longer than anybody in developed countries, and yet i've proven found ten out of 11 countries do it better than america, but you won't do it. >> i love you, mied friend, but you cannot -- sweden does not have our inner city population. norway. they do not have -- you're talking about countries the size
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of india with homogenius populations. >> canada. canada he is as multicultural as the united states if not more with a 15% corporate tax rate and lower personal tax rates. even the argument about i don't want to pay more taxes. you go to toronto. you won't pay more taxes and your shark free. >> not at all. the quality of care isn't as good. >> you 100% won't pay more taxes. you're in chicago. do you know how close tower canada? go over there. you will not pay higher taxes. >> you will die in america the you're on medicaid. i love you. >> i love you even more. come back again. we'll keep the conversation going. joe walsh, former congressman. a mother and her, two son are about to be deported back to honduras. that's according to senator bob casey. he called out the administration in a tweet storm this afternoon saying, it's urgent. i just found pout a, two child and her mother who came to the
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united states seeking refuge will be sent back to honduras today. he joins me now. senator, thank you for being with us. i want to talk to you about what i was talking on joe about. tell me why you have taken on the case of this mother and her child? >> because i.c.e. and the administration should be doing other things rather than sending a mother who is no threat to the country, and her 5-year-old son, out of country. this is outrageous. this is america. they shouldn't be sending they will out of country. they're no threat. this is a 5-year-old child. they should give them right to get special immigrant juvenile status. go before a judge and make that determination. a waste of money. i wish they would focus violent criminals. people posing a threat to violent safety. >> the argument is in many cases based on the idea that they are closing in on violent criminals. that's definitely central to the
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argument. you're going, you're spitting in the wind here. >>er ali, this case is very simple. this woman was in honduras. she witnessed a murder. and because of that, she has been pursued by gangs. she comes into this country. she was detained for a long period of time. she has a 5-year-old son west should protect her and her son. if the administration is really worried about law enforcement and protecting us from violent criminals or people who come to this country and do us harm, they should work on that. this kind of action makes us less safe. >> all right. tell me the legal basis. i have the letter in my hand. the letters that you've sent, starting some sometime ago to john kelly, the secretary of homeland security. you're mentioning a few people. mothers with, two children. on what legal basis are you and go they stay these extraditions?
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>> this 5-year-old child can go in front of a judge and a determination could be made as to whether that child could receive special will immigrant juvenile status. why bottom th why wouldn't they allow that to proceed? i don't think his mother should be deported either. but at least in the context of a child, this is how we do immigration policy? this is how we're supposed the frequent country? this is an outrage. an insult to the country. >> have you heard back from anyone on this request? >> no. i called the chief of staff. the chief of staff priebus. i talked to him i'm glad he took my call. he said he was looking into it. have not heard back from secretary kelly. i voted for kelly. i thought more of him, that he would return that phone call. and then the director of i.c.e. i shouldn't have to make these calls. >> are you worried that there's a shift in sentiment?
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that they are shifting away that we would have empathy about these, two mothers with their, two children? we're lumping them into people who are in the country illegally and joining them in our thinking about criminals. >> i think that's what the administration is doing. lumping everyone together. why don't they focus on people that represent a threat to us? why don't they do it? i don't know why can. instead, they're letting i.c.e. do whatever they want. >> we're going to follow this story closely. you heard my conversation with joe walsh. i tried present as much evidence as could i that there are better ways to do health care than we do it in the united states. he didn't really agree with me. what do you make of it? >> there are lots of ways to make our health care system better. but it is not repeal and decimate like they're trying to do here. they want to undermine medicaid which provides health care for not just folks in cities but in
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small towns and rural areas. i have a state that has a lot of rural counties. those hospitals will be wiped out if this republican bill goes through in rural pennsylvania. so if they want to fight about that, we'll have a fight about that. we have 20 million people covered that weren't covered before. we have over 150 million americans that have a lot better protections today because of the legislation. if they want to take repeal off the table and work on problems that are still in existence in the health care marketplace, we can do that. to wyoming it out and to pretend, to pretend and deliberately mislead to republicans, or mislead to country like republicans are now, saying they fixed pre-existing condition in the bill by adding $8 billion, they might be as much as over $190 short. >> we'll keep reporting only and also on these letters that you have sent us. we'll try to get to the department of homeland security and get some information on this. good to see you.
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>> senator bob casey of pennsylvania. you're looking at live pictures of the house right now where any moment, members will be voting on the $1.1 trillion 2017 budget. it does deny the president the funds for his much promised border wall, despite what sean spicer and nick mulvany have been saying about that. i wanted to know who i am and where i came from. i did my ancestrydna and i couldn't wait to get my pie chart. the most shocking result was that i'm 26% native american. i had no idea. just to know this is what i'm made of, this is where my ancestors came from. and i absolutely want to know more about my native american heritage. it's opened up a whole new world for me. discover the story only your dna can tell.
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live pictures of the house floor. nancy pelosi is speaking now. they're set to vote on that spending boil the keep the government funded until september. let's check back with mike viqueira. >> reporter: you see nancy pelosi wrapping things up behind where i'm standing. it is expected to pass. the only thing is would it have a veto proof? yesterday president trump surprised the world and washington yet again, not to mention government leadership saying perhaps we do need a shutdown come tomorrow. he could have one tomorrow if he wanted to veto this bill. that's not likely. the only thing is who will be taking credit for it? democrats say they had their way with the white house in terms of the funding for nih, reducing what president trump wants for the border wall. $1.5 billion for that.
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republicans say $15 billion to plus up defense, a big priority for them. they're calling that a win. the people that are really going to be against this when it does come to a vote will be conservatives. lindsey graham called this, said that republicans got their clocked cleaned in this negotiation. very little us is pence here. we're still waiting on the debate. when they do have this vote on the floor, a lot of arm twisting. it will be interesting to watch from up in the balcony. >> we'll check in with you. a busy afternoon. still to come, nancy pelosi says republicans are, quote, duping americans with the proposed health care bill. we'll tell what you she's talking about after the break. are allergies holding you back? break through your allergies. try new flonase sensimist instead of allergy pills. it's more complete allergy relief in a gentle mist you may not even notice. using unique mistpro technology, new flonase sensimist delivers a gentle mist to help block
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very quietly, the effort to pick up health care is picking up steam. on paper, the passage of this highly controversial bill is looking more likely. the nbc news whip count stands at 19 which means that the republicans can afford to lose 22 votes. so they still have a few more people to convince but it looks like it could happen. joining no discuss that, the president of the committee for the budget. and the founder and ceo, thanks
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for beast with us. you made a point when we were talking about health care versus tax cuts. it won't call it a tax plan or tax reform, it is largely cuts. it was important to get health care done first because the savings from health care was supposed to help pay for some of these tax cuts. put that into perspective for us. >> exactly. the original plan was to get rid of the health care situation so they could save a trillion dollars there and that would go fournding tax reform over the longer horizon. the border adjustment tax. that's $2.3 trillion that you're in the hole without starting to score up what the president has now sort of put up as their proposal as thin as it is on detail. >> so it is important. a lot of people think they're
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two different things that we're talking about. but health care is fundamental will an economic issue. if you could, i'm sure everybody would want to pay for health care. the new amendment to the health care bill is care bill is $8 billion to boost protections for people who could lose their pre-existing conditions because states can opt out of having to provide people with basic health care. seems like a lot of money, but people who have been looking at this, this is very tough, we don't have real numbers, say that the cost of this is much higher than $8 billion. >> well, that's the absolute right point which is bwe have n idea at this point what the cost of this bill is. the last time cbo scored a health care bill, they found about $150 billion savings would come from it. since then, many, many changes have been made, and we've looked at the numbers. they could save a little bit money -- of money, excuse me, or they could cost another couple hundred billions of dollars. and so the point i would make is, we shouldn't be talking about voting for a very massive
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significant bill until we see the cost estimates from congressional budget office. policymakers shouldn't have to vote on the bill to see what the costs are. so the first step is let's get a score, let's analyze what the effects would be thing we can move forward in that. to the point you were just making, there are two reasons, health care effects tax reform in that we have to use the reconciliation instructions to get this done before we could move to health care. i'll also point out the savings from health care can't be applied to tax reform. tax reform has it be revenue neutral on its own. the savings aren't going to be close to $1 ftrillion. much, much less. the budget vehicles, budget reconciliation we're making makes the sequences health care has to be first. >> right. >> then we focus on tax reform. we have to pass a budget for next year, something we haven't -- >> next year, you're talking
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about september. next year is actually september. these are all very relevant points. by the way, the vote is taking place on the 2017 appropriations. we're watching that in a moment. if you see breaking news across your screen, that's because that spending bill, pitch whiwhich id to pass is being voted on in the house. to that point, diane swamp, that mia talks about, a tax plan being revenue neutral, this thing that has been put forward, i really have trouble calling it a plan because it's on a piece f of paper without details. >> napkin, yeah. >> it's not close to revenue neutral. it's going to cost a lot of money unless as steve mnuchin, gary cohn and the president say, economic growth explodes as a result of it. >> no, that's not going to happen. i think mia made very good -- tried to mark it up between $4 trillion and $6 trillion this could add to the deficit. it's hard without all the details to see what actually could happen today. goldman sachs also talked about people readjusting to the 15%, out they're classified as
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workers, that that could cost another $1 trillion in terms of lost revenue, tax expenditures as i call it. i think it's very important to think about that. these are -- we're not thinking about the ecosystem of the budget, itself. what mia's group has been very good at is talking about, when we talk about these policies, we isolate them. we need to talk about them with the whole ecosystem. the elephant in the room is entitleme entitlements. there are ways we could at least approach these issues and we've not done that. >> we're not going anywhere in that direction. >> that's the real issue is we're looking at these piecemeal as if somehow they pay for themselves. they don't. add tenths to the overall economy in terms of growth, not percents. more importantly, mia pointed this out, by adding to the deficit, they can race interest rates and be a negative to the u.s. economy. >> what i love about talking to boit both of you, you normally dwell in facts. way ha
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we have assumptions, neither on h health care or the tax stuff do we have facts. i'd like you back when we have facts to talk about. thanks for joining me and trying to make some sense o ut of it. let's take a look at the house vote on the floor. we'll let you know when it is finished. it is expected to pass and it funds the government until september. i'll be right back. time your the "your business" entrepreneurs of the week. breaking up was hard to do for jeff and nate, but reuniting has felt so good. the owners of 5 string furniture in nashville, tennessee, are back together after a two-year break. jeff was running the business solo, but now that nate's returned, they're growing faster than ever. for more watch "your business" sunday mornings at 7:30 on ms c msnbc. will your business be ready when growth presents itself? american express open cards can help you take on a new job, or fill a big order
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late show host stephen colbert is in hot water this week after a joke of president
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trump from his monday show went viral for all the wrong reasons. listen. >> you talk like a sign language gorilla who got hit in the head n fact, the only thing your mouth is good for is being vladimir putin's [ bleep ]. >> critics took to twitter using #firecolbert to demand cbs fire him, while his supporters say it was all in a joke for a satirist. i want to bring in blake, good to see you. you worked on "the late show. questio ," this is what you do, you make fun of the president. how do you know what's too far? >> i don't think stephen colbert went too far. brilliant political satire. he's fearless. in 2005 at the white house correspondents' dinner, he skewered george w. bush brilliantly two bush sitting two feet away. >> right. >> i think sadly our president and administration and everyday life is over the top, so he's a comedian, his material the other
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night was completely appropriate, i thought very funny and i will say to me as a straight male, speaking only as a straight male, not homophobic, not even a sexual reference. political totally mocking the relationship between putin and trump. whatever the joke is, whoever the comedian is, we should defend it. this is what america is all about. should be able to tell a joke quhout fear of retribution. >> even if it was offensive. >> people have the right to deem it that. >> seem people said it was homophobic. is the issue that when you denigrate someone else by suggest the that if they were gay, that's somehow less than if they were straight? is that why you think some people are reacting to it -- >> i don't think there's any basis to that at all, has nothing to do with gay people or homosex homosexuality. the only demeaning -- people should know the con tengs. this was in response to anneran interview he did with john dickerson. trump said you're fake news, deface the nation. this was a very funny premise
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going after trump for being what i think offensive to john dickerson. look, we should -- misplaced outrage. we should focus on a president who's demeaning muslim, immigrants, women. stephen colbert did not demonize anyone except the president. that's the job of political comedian. >> scott, thanks for helping me finish out the show with this. scott is joining us. that does it for me on this busy wednesday. see me tomorrow afternoon at 3:00 eastern. steve kornacki is standing by. thanks for that, ali. good afternoon, everybody, steve kornacki live in new york. a lot going on. topping our agenda, comey answering back. >> you may think we're idiots. we're honest people. we made judgments trying to do the right thing and i believe even with hindsight we made the right decisions. >> so why did james comey release that letter about the hillary clinton e-mail investigation just days before the election? and why did he never say anything about the investigation into