tv MSNBC Live With Craig Melvin MSNBC May 4, 2017 10:00am-11:01am PDT
we start with that breaking news coming out of the nation's capital at this hour. any moment now, house republicans hoping the third time might be the charm. they are engaged in a series of debates right now which they hope will lead to a successful vote on health care reform. possibly later this hour we are being told. republicans today sounding convinced they finally have the votes at least to get it out of the house. >> faubl. >> absolutely? >> yes. >> we do have the votes. there's a lot of un nam nimty today. >> the line of the day was, you know, out of braveheart. freedom! it's good stuff. >> are you concerned about the score? >> no. we've actually had individual studies to look at it so we feel real good it's going to lower premiums. >> my only concern is the u.s. senate. >> what changes concern you most? >> moving away from a 218 vote that was tough to get.
>> that upper chamber, that pesky upper chamber. mike viqueira is on capitol hill. kelly o'donnell at the white house. for analysis charlie sikes conservative commentator and an msnbc contributor. mike, let me start with you, bring us up to speed. where are we in the action? >> you heard the reference to "braveheart" behind closed doors the republicans met the leaders presenting the plan. you're right i'm stand nearing the house floor. they're wrapping up debate. the whip the chief whip for house republicans steve scalise speaking on the floor. "brave heart" one thing, kevin mccarthy put up general george patton to try to fire up his troops today. it's one thing, craig, when republican leaders or any congressional leaders say to the public they're moving forward and confident they will have the votes an here we have speaker ryan walking by. exchanging pleasantries with some of our producers here. i'm actually joined right now by
the chief whip, mr. scalise, fresh off the floor, we were just watching you there. thank you for live on msnbc. this is a republican goal, since 2009, when obamacare the affordable care act passed. you've been talking about campaigning on repealing obamacare ever since then. does this bill repeal obamacare? >> this bill guts the law. what's most important it focuses on lower premiums and putting patients back in charge of the health care. you have to go through unelected bureaucrats in washington to get permission to buy a health care policy in most cases is 20, 30% higher than you were paying the year before. the law doesn't work. so what we're doing is actually making reforms to lower costs and put patients back in charge and reforming programs like medicaid, one of the most broken forms of health care so states can actually be innovative and focus on doing more to help low-income families and so these are the kind of things that are in this bill. it's a good bill that's going to help millions of families across the country struggling under the nur fail yours of obamacare. >> how much does it cost?
how many will lose insurance? the bill was only posted on-line 8:00 last night. what's the rush? and don't you need to know some of these details before putting it on the house floor? >> this bill has been out there for weeks. the final changes that have been made are maybe a page and a half long and you look at -- >> but significant changes. >> significant changes we've been talking about for weeks, our members have been talking about for weeks. the total bill is less than 200 pages long. most of it has been on-line over a month. the important thing is, not only is everybody looked at it but members have come together and worked hard to focus on each step of the way and improving it more to lower costs for families struggling. just yesterday the state of iowa got notice their only insurance in almost the entire state, the only provider will pull out of the state. millions of people under obamacare in iowa will have nowhere to go, nobody to get insurance from because the law is failing and we're seeing this play out across the country. >> your job as the whip is to count party noses, it's been a
long haul, it's going over to the senate, where i don't think there's any secrets, it's going to change a lot. moderates are being made to walk the plank. what turned around to make you confident after the last several days when it was looking bleak? >> each step of the way we made reforms to the bill that continue focus on lower costs, protecting people with preexisting conditions, putting patients back in charge, and so each time we made those changes it's added more members to our vote count. >> that will get taken out in the senate. >> i don't think so. first of all health care policy is very personal to families all across the country, it's very complicated policy and we've worked through a lot of most complicated issues and i hope the senate can make even more changes to it that make it better. but they're going to find out like we found out it's not easy to put that coalition together because everybody has their own best way of doing it. you have to find a way to do it to bring a coalition together with the majority of the house and senate to pass it. i look forward to giving the
senate that opportunity to additional reforms. >> finally, mr. whip, medical association, american medical association, the nurses association, aarp, stakeholders, patient groups, uniformly against what you're doing today. what do you say to them? >> a lot of groups that were for obamacare are, of course, going to be against this bill because they want obamacare. the problem is, millions of americans don't want obamacare. and look, we were elected on a mandate to do this. not like there's any secret both house and senate republicans have said we're going to repeal and replace obamacare. donald trump when he was running for president said he was going to repeal and replace obamacare. the country got to have a say in this in the presidential election in november and spoke loud and clear that they're done with this law. it doesn't work for families. they want to repeal and replace and we're following through. >> inside baseball what's the margin of victory today? >> we will get a majority of the votes and pass this bill. >> three, four, five? >> 216 is the magic number. that's what we're focusing on and look, this is going to be a rescue mission that starts
today, let the senate go make more improvements to it, bring it back through the regular process but get it on to donald trump's desk because he wants to sign this bill into law and follow through on the problem of rescuing families. >> is that the rush you pushed for the white house to do this before you go away for the week? >> a lot of people wanted it to be voted on weeks ago but the bill wasn't ready to pass weeks ago. there were other reforms and inproechltss that needed to be made and we took the time to get it right and i think the most important thing we did is did not have artificial deadlines we made sure we made the changes that our members wanted to make, have made, so that it makes it a better bill for families across the country. >> steve scalise, louisiana, republican whip. >> good to be with you. >> all right. craig, there you heard it, the man in charge of lining up this vote it had been looking bleak, turned around in the last couple days he says publicly on our air on msnbc they have the votes. i'm told privately by long-time staffers who work behind the scenes that they are very confident that this is going to move forward today, craig.
>> mike viqueira on capitol hill, vick, thank you so much for that report. thanks for that interview as well. standby. we would love to come back to you throughout the hour as this vote happens. kelly o., let's read what lindsey graham tweeted earlier. this is the senior senator from the great state of south carolina. a bill finalized yesterday, has not been scored amendments not allowed and three hours of final debate, should be viewed with caution. if it passes, despite what we heard from the whip there, if this thing passes does the white house think they can push this bill through the senate in its current form as well? >> not in its current form but i think this is an incremental process and for this time, today, tomorrow, the white house is seeking a victory, believes there is one they can legitimately claim if this does, in fact, pass as expected as the leadership has said they believe they are confident of. the president today making a sort of wink as he is in the
rose garden with faith leaders for national day of prayer, sort of alluding to the fact that this long-awaited vote from the trump white house point of view would fall on this day of the national day of prayer, saying he is hopeful wouldn't it be wonderful to have a vote all those sort of superlatives the president likes to use. they do understand that a whole new chapter, a new clock begins after this, and it's a tougher road because there are more -- more roadblocks when it comes to trying to get passage when you have a senator rand paul very much against this, senator ted cruz has been speaking out with concerns about it, other members of the republican conference have their questions. so it starts again. the intention is to try to get something passed through the senate and then a conference we can play school house rock where the two chambers try to mesh their bills together and come to some final solution that would ultimately reach the president's desk. let's be clear, this point has happened a number of times
before when president barack obama lived here, where the house was able to pass a bill that unraveled obamacare. now this is the first time it would happen under president trump. but it's only one stage in a long process. craig? >> charlie, i want to play something for you here, sir. it's gotten a lot of pick-up on-line throughout date. this is paul ryan, this is the speaker of the house, here on msnbc, back in 2009, this is the speaker talking about complaining about the legislative process that led to the passage of the affordable care act, aka, obamacare. >> i don't think we should pass bills that we haven't read that we don't know what they cost. we want to see health care reform done but we want to do it right and if you rush this thing through before anybody even knows what it is, that's not good democracy. that's not doing our work for our constituents. what's wrong with going home for august, having town hall meetings, listening to our constituents and coming back in september and doing this right. >> oh, the irony, charlie, sikes.
no cbo score, no new cbo score here, there has not been a public debate about this current bill, there's been little time to understand the latest amendment, the upton amendment, is there a danger here? >> oh, absolutely. by the way, i'm old enough to remember when virtually every conservative in america said that sort of thing. you have a substance program, political problem but this process problem you are ramming through a bill and no question about it you don't know what's in the text. >> so why do that? >> what's the thinking? no well, you know what, because i think the strategy is once you get the votes you to push this through before there's wavering. a couple other things, number one, they will argue that, you know, the clock is running on the whole reconciliation process, insurance companies around the country are looking at this and by the way this doesn't take place in a vacuum, the insurance industry is watching this, and as you're seeing happening in iowa, some of them are deciding there's too much uncertainty we are bailing
out on all of this. you know what, you legislate in hayes, you repent at leisure. that's the problem. interesting all these military analogies with brave heart and general patton, i would suggest republicans look up the term perric victory. you can win the battle but lose the war if you don't do it right. >> kelly o., before we continue our conversation on health care, you alluded to something that happened in the white house a short time ago. this new executive action and announcement as well about travel overseas. tell us about those two things? >> well, the president signed an executive order that is framed as religious liberty from the trump white house point of view, two key things it seeks to do to give the irs an order not to enforce with the same vigor when religious organizations and non-profits engage in political activity, and they are tax exempt, not prosecute them or use regulatory action against them. that's one part. another, saying that religious
organizations like the little sisters of the poor, for example, that had a legal fight with the obama administration could opt out of being required to cover certain health care coverage like birth control, for example, if it was against their religious views for religiously oriented organizations. a catholic hospital perhaps, or some other faith-based organization. that's what the presidential order does. at the rose garden ceremony where he signed this the president announced his foreign travel, his first foreign trip and there is a religious overtone to it. he will begin going to saudi arabia, then to israel, the vatican, so the three world religions that have roots in each of those places the president will make important stops there, in addition to established summit in sicily he's going to. this is a big trip with big implications for the president's stated goal of trying to achieve greater steps forward in middle east peace, despite real divisions, despite not believing
in a two-state solution which is the position of the president and a trip to the vatican to meet pope francis and something most do, that is on the agenda. for later this month, a lot of details being worked out but it's believed to be -- and saudi arabia first officials say because they believe the u.s. relationship with the muslim world has not been as good as it should be. as a gesture, going to saudi arabia first. craig? >> kelly from the white house, charlie sikes, big thanks to both of you. debbie dingell a democratic congresswoman from michigan, sets on the energy and commerce committee, which helped author the full bill that is being deebtsed right now as we have this conversation on the floor. congresswoman i know it's a busy day. appreciate you carving out a few moments for us. picking up on what we heard from whip scalise there, what's your sense of the vote? do republicans as they insist have this thing in the bag? >> well, i haven't been doing the whip counting but i suspect
after two failures they wouldn't be bringing it to the floor if they didn't think they have the votes. think they've been doing a good job of breaking arms and legs. >> breaking arms and legs, how so? >> well, i know there's been a lot of pressure on people to get it out of the house and i think that's very disappointing because i think the reality is, they're trying to get this done before people go home, they're on break and going to hear from their constituents about how terrified they are about where this bill is right now. we have not -- i agree with my republican colleagues in the senate, senator graham and others, saying we should have had more time or paul ryan said several years ago to read it. i did read the 200 page bill before, the amendments have come late. this bill tears, rips insurance away from 24 million americans. it gives people less coverage. it's now placing people with preexisting conditions in an even dangerous more spot about whether they're going to be able to afford it. everybody has access to bmw but not everybody can afford it. $8 billion, is not a lot to
experts and i've studied this the last two months say we need close to $200 billion to be able to pay for the high risk pool. we're going to charge seniors five times more. seniors aren't people in the 50s. this is a bad bill. i wish it the -- this isn't a war between republicans and democrats. it's about real people's lives out there. i hear from them every ta. is the affordable care act perfect? no. let's work together to fix those little problems and not destroy a bill that is a major health care coverage for too many americans. >> you mentioned preexisting conditions. and we've talked about these high risk pools. i want to ask you about congressman upton's amendment for, you know, this amendment regarding more money for people who may be pushed into the high risk pools. "the new york times" writing, mr. upton's proposal does not specify who would be eligible, how much of their costs would be covered, or how much they would be expected to contribute in
premiums. what's your understanding of precisely how these high risk pools would work? >> you know, it's very complicated. regular insurance works like for car insurance which we all understand, not everybody is going to have a car accident at the same time. what these high risk pools do is take the healthy people out, put them in another pool, and everybody that's sick or has a preexisting condition goes into these high risk pools. they say you need $180 billion to $200 billion to cover the cost of those. also this -- the other bill the bill we were talking about that's been on-line that we've been reading, would also require that someone with a preexisting condition have continuous health care coverage. more than 30 million americans end up for various reasons having to go off health insurance and not being able to go back into it, would ib increase it a thousand fold.
people don't understand. it's complicated. i just know i -- you know, i'm a caregiver. i've talked about it more, i'm seeing people every single day that have to go to the doctor or the hospital more than they want and they're scared to death. my governor passed healthy michigan. we reduced the uninsured rate in michigan by 50%. he's still saying this is a bad bill. >> we'll leave it there. congresswoman, i know you have to get back to the floor. i appreciate you taking a few minutes for us. thank you so much. keep us up to speed on the timing if you can. this leads us all to our microsoft pulse question of the day. we're asking, will the senate change the house version of the american health care act? you can cast your vote now, at pulse.msnbc.com. we'll check results later in the broadcast. still so many questions about precisely what's in the health care bill. lots of questions. how it's different from obamacare. we are going to break all of that down with our mark murray. plus, next stop, the upper
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by several amendments, including one yesterday to get passage. a live look here at the house floor. this is, of course, kevin mccarthy from california speaking. we are told that some time this hour, the votes will start, the voting will start, to pass a new version of health care. we were told in the last ten minutes, steve scalise, the house whip, insisting that republicans do, in fact, have the votes this time around to get this thing through. so many angles have left so many folks confused about exactly what is being passed. so for clarity as we frequently do we turn to mark murray. mark, what's in, what's out, what's changed? >> well, craig, one of the biggest changes has to do with the individual mandate under the legislation and this gets rid of the individual mandate under the affordable care act and it actually replaces it with a surcharge. if you end up letting your insurance coverage lapse you get hit with a 30% surcharge.
something else that actually changes is the subsidies under the affordable care act get translated into tax credits. and then there's one other big component as well and that is the that the taxes that were created to finance the affordable care act, well they end up getting repealed and many critics of the house republican legislation see this is a big tax boon for the wealthiest of americans. here's one thing that actually stays and that is, children are allowed to stay on to their parents health care plans up to the age of 26. that was one of the most popular features of the affordable care act that does stay. one other thing that ends up going and one of the wrinkles to get the house freedom caucus the conservative people involved, the macarthur amendment allowed states to get rid of their disposal to opt out as some of the essential health care benefits people think this could end up impacting those with preexisting conditions, and that has been the focus of the debate
over the last couple weeks or so. but i'll add one other big change that i haven't walked through yet on the board, and that is, the people who have gotten their expansion under medicaid, this is a big hit on medicaid in this legislation and the people who end up getting health coverage through expanded medicaid would be some of the biggest losers in this legislation. >> we are going to talk about that in a few moments with our panel as it relates to special education instruction in this country. mark murray, thanks as always, sir. what's likely to get approved today in the house, likely will not resemble what, if anything, comes out of the senate. republicans there have 52 votes. they can only afford to lose two votes. multiple gop senators are being quoted right now as saying that the health care bill in its current form has little chance of pass am. i'm joined by democratic senator maggie hassan of new hampshire. senator, let me start by asking you, do you agree with that sentiment? will more than 200 counterparts
oppose the measure as it stands right now? >> the house republicans have take an bad health care plan and made it even worse and if it does pass out of the house today, there are those of us who are going to continue to speak up about what a bad bill this is. it hasn't, of course, been scored by the congressional budget office because it's been rushed through. but the last scoring that they did on the first proposal, told us that it would increase insurance premium, it would rip health insurance away from millions of americans. in my own state of new hampshire it would take away critical treatment for our opioid ep diplomatic. as you heard from one of your experts it would put a 30% penalty on people who, for instance, lost their jobs and, therefore, lost their health insurance and didn't have a chance to keep their health insurance because they lost their job. the next time they get a job they -- or the next time they bought health insurance they
would pay a 30% penalty. it has an age tax in there. if you're between about 50 and 65, you would pay an age tax for your health insurance. and as i think you are going to talk about with your upcoming panel, this is a real hit for our schools because right now, our medicaid program funds medical care that special needs kids get that allows them to be included fully in their schools and if that goes away that's a downshift to our local communities just at a time when they're struggling to make ends meet. this is a bad bill for the american people, it's going to drive health care costs up, and it -- i hope will meet very stiff resistance in the senate. >> senator, as we are watching this debate play out on the floor of the house, just a few moments ago, my colleague mike viqueira talked to the majority whip in the house, steve scalise and asked if the house is just forcing senators like you to, quote, walk the plank. listen to his response. >> they're going to find out like we found out it's not easy
to put that coalition together because evers has their own best way of doing it. you have to find a way to do it that brings a coalition together with a majority of the house and a majority of the senate to pass it. i look forward to giving the senate that opportunity to make additional reforms. >> so what will the senate do? how will the senate treat this bill? is there a working group that is -- that's already been established as we've heard, again, right now that's jim clyburn, the assistant democratic leader on the floor speaking. senator? >> look, time will tell what we do in the senate. what i know as a member of the democratic caucus, is that as long as we're talking about repealing the affordable care act and ripping health care away from millions of americans while driving health care costs up, we're not going to be working to do that. what we continue to say to our republican colleagues is let's come together and continue to do the improvements on the
affordable care act that we all know we need to do. but at the end of the day, the house bill is a nonstarter for many of us. i know from being back home in new hampshire, that people know that it's really important that we have health insurance that provides treatment for the opioid epidemic, behavioral health that invests in primary care and helps us all work towards a more affordable health care system where everybody has access to primary and preventative care and that's what we should be focused on. how to improve what we have not rip health care away from people and do away with the benefits and make people pay a tax when they lose their health care and can't afford to keep it going privately or make people between 50 and 65 pay extra in premiums. that's not what we should be doing. and that's what the house is sending us. >> senator maggie hassan of new hampshire, thank you. i know it's a busy day there. appreciate your time. >> thanks, craig. take care. the gop health care plan getting slammed by critics for
not protecting people with preexisting conditions. republicans instead suggesting high risk pools for uninsurable patients. what that could mean for the cost of your health insurance. right after this. ready or not, here i come.ek.) ♪ anyone can dream. making it a reality is the hard part. northrop grumman command and control systems always let you see the complete picture. and we're looking for a few dreamers to join us.
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live look at the house floor. that is, of course, democratic minority leader nancy pelosi who is speaking just ahead of that bill, the health care bill, is being debated on the floor. house whip steve scalise on msnbc indicated that they are very confident that they have the votes to pass this time. another sign of that confidence, perhaps, word from the white house a short time ago that president trump is now pushing back his travel plans here to new york city, the president had planned to arrive here in new york in just a few hours, was going to be leaving washington around 2:00, now leaving around 5:00. because there is now a small party being planned at the white house. they expect that once this thing is done, they'll go over there and high five a bit and president trump will come here to new york to meet with prime minister malcolm turnbull of
australia for a preplanned event here in new york city. on the right side of your screen there, of course, the white house, the left side, nancy pelosi. let's listen in for just a bit. >> trump care will take away health care from more than 24 million hard-working americans. a crushing age tax. trump care forces americans 50 to 64 to pay premiums five times higher than what others pay for health coverage. no matter how healthy they are. steals from medicare, steals from medicare, trump care shortens the life of medicare trust funds and ransacks funds seniors depend on to get long-term care they need. that's why it's consistent with their wither on the vine for medicare philosophy. and then, if that were not bad enough, and they couldn't pass their bill because it was that bad, they moved further away from the american people by
gutting key protections. trum care eviscerates essential health benefits such as maternity care, prescription drugs, emergency coverage, prenatal care, and guts protections for americans with preexisting medical conditions. as bad as trump care was the first time around, it was dead, it died, it died right here on the floor, now it's come back to life. like a zombie. even more scary than before. and it is even worse. if republicans have their way, americans with preexisting conditions will be pushed off their insurance and segregated into high risk pools where they will face soaring costs, worse coverage and restricted care. trump care means huge premium increases. it's frightening future for families who need affordable, dependable care the most. now on the floor the republicans
have recklessly and some would say fraudulently claimed that trump care covers americans with preexisting conditions. it does not. it does not. as robert gaboys at the conservative center said about the upton amendment the $8 billion amount is a pittance, spread over five years it is a fifth of a pittance as karen from the kaiser family foundation said the upton amendment would cover the cost for 1% of the individual market. others have given it up to 5%. 1 to 5%. does that mean covering? no. forcing a vote without a cbo score shows that the republicans are afraid of the facts. they're afraid of learning the full consequences of their plan to push americans with preexisting conditions into the cold whereas my colleague from new york said, into the -- off
the sidewalk. if republicans thought they were really protecting people, they wouldn't be afraid of the facts. but they're also afraid of the truth. and the truth that would come forth if we knew the facts. and they're afraid that the american people will find out this is not a health care bill, this is a tax bill disguised as a health bill, this is a bill that is one of the biggest transfers of wealth from the middle class to the richest people and corporations in america. it's a tax bill, not a health care bill. that's why they have to do it now so they can get on with their tax bill. but the suffering trump core will inflict on the sick is all too clear. that is why this disastrous bill has been condemned by the american medical association, the american cancer society, american diabetes society, the americans diabetes association, american heart association, american lung association, american society of clinical oncology, the cystic fibrosis foundation, aids united,
children hospitals association, aarp, the march of dimes, the list goes on and on. on and on. the american cancer society. instead of reading all of these pages, i will submit them without objection for the record. >> without objection. >> thank you, mr. speaker. under trump care families seniors, vulnerable children, americans with disabilities, people struggling to overcome addiction and the sick, will lose their health care. rural hospitals will be closed, 2 million jobs will be destroyed across america. 7 million veterans will lose access to tax credits for health care. and all of this, to give a massive tax cut to the richest in america. trump care is a billionaire's tax cut, again disguised as a health care bill. it's robinhood in reverse. it's one of the largest again transfers of wealth from working families to the rich in our
country. today, we have the -- we honor the visions of our founders, we can, who risked everything, they risked everything, their lives, their liberty, their sacred honor, to advance the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. the life, a healthier life. the freedom to pursue your happiness. the freedom from being job locked or policy locked because of what the republicans want to do today. today, we fight to preserve affordable health care as the right of every american, not the privileged few. today we fight for children like zoe madison. zoe was born with a conget tall heart defect in may of 2010. she faced her first of three heart surgeries at 15 hours. by six months old zoe was halfway to her lifetime limit her insurer placed on her. she faced a grim future not only using up her lifetime limit by
preschool, by preschool, but by carrying a preexisting condition that will require attention and care for the rest of her life. under the affordable care act, zoe is protected but trump care puts her future in danger. i wish that our members who vote for this bill had better -- i hope you make time to sit down with the parents of a newborn or with a heart condition or a young woman who just learned she had breast cancer, the family of loved ones struggling withist a disease or chronic condition, any of the tens of millions of americans who are rightfully terrified of what trump care will mean in their lives. mr. speaker, we have -- >> there you have it. minority leader nancy pelosi, there on the floor, just a few minutes away from what's expected to bes passage of a new health care bill. that bill expected to pass the
lower chamber, miss pelosi there, spending a few minutes railing against it. we will continue to listen in. let's bring in anton, former director of external affairs for the department of health and human services under president obama, phil klein, managing editor, columnist for the washington examiner, larry levist, senior vice president of the kaiser family foundation which focuses on health policy and jonathan grish is with us as well, professor of economic at m.i.t. a lot of folks who call him an architect of the health care law. he was a creator of the massachusetts health care law. part of the team that created what we have come to know as obamacare. and anton, let me start with you, a lot of folks have been talking about the preexisting conditions component of all of this. the gop has said time after time that people with preexisting conditions would be covered. let's talk about the upton amendment.
this was the amendment that would add $8 billion over five years to help people with preexisting conditions in states that waive coverage in favor of high risk pools. is that enough money to cover those people? >> absolutely not. it is not nearly enough money in the first two years of the affordable care act, we had a preexisting condition program that allowed people who had preexisting conditions to get coverage and we ran out of money in the fund. that's why it was important for us to have the marketplace and get rid of the provisions that people had to have, couldn't get coverage because of preexisting conditions. because we know how expensive it is to deliver care to the 129 million americans that have a preexisting condition. so this $8 billion is a drop in the bucket. it doesn't provide coverage. they're not specifying how it's going to provide coverage at all or make it more affordable for people to have preexisting conditions. so it's not a winner. it doesn't make sense for the american people. it doesn't move us forward. i mean, to hear this whole
conversation is like watching a bad movie over again. if you thought sharknado was a bad movie, sharknado 2 is worse. that's why i don't think we should entertain this. and they are getting excited about passing a bill today but they're trying to spike the ball on the 50 yard line and this is not going to move america forward. we can't allow this to continue down this road. >> jonathan, you are intimately familiar with the inner workings of obamacare. i gather you have become fairly familiar with this bill. as well. in your objective assessment, since we don't have a cbo score, we don't know precisely how many millions will be affected or how much the bill will cost yet, give us your objective assessment of what this bill would mean for the average american? >> well, i think the important thing to highlight as you said we don't have a cbo score which is crazy. i think that in terms of coverage, in terms of premiums, it's not going to be vastly different from what we saw in
the last cbo score. more than 20 million people losing health insurance coverage. we'll see premiums skyrocket and become unaffordable for the low-income, sick and poor. and i think the big difference with this score is the deficit impact. i think you're going to see a bill which moderately reduces the deficit, now perhaps increasing the deficit. it doesn't really matter that much because the reduction deficit was small before, but it puts a lie to any possible argument for why you even need this. you know the only possible argument they had was at least it's reducing the deficit. if it doesn't increase -- reduce the deficit, then it really is exposed what nancy pelosi called it, which is just cuts to the poor for health care to cover a big tax cut for the rich. >> larry, help us understand what these paul ryan speaking, stand by for a second. i want to talk about these high risk pools. the speaker of the house, paul ryan, here on the floor, listen in. >> ways and means, budget and rules, i want to thank all the members who made constructive
contributions throughout this entire deliberative bottom up organic process. i want to thank the president of the united states for his stedfast leadership. in his address -- mr. speaker. fau [ inaudible ]. >> house will be in order. he called on congress to act and today, we take the next step to repeal and replace obamacare. i want to thank vice president pence, secretary price, director mulvaney and all of their teams, my colleagues, there is a fundamental and urgent choice at the heart of this debate. we can continue with the status
quo under obamacare and we know what that looks like. it means even higher premiums, even fewer choices, even more insurance companies pulling out, even more uncertainty and even more chaos. look at what has happened in iowa this week. as is the case in so many areas, in this country, iowa, is down to one insurer. that, of course, is not a choice. but now, that one insurer is saying that it will have to pull out of 94 of 99 counties in iowa. this is happening right now. so tens of thousands of i waens will go from having one option to no options. that is not a choice. this is a crisis.
and it is happening right now. what protection is obamacare if there is no health care plan to purchase if your state. this the direction obamacare is rapidly heading. so we can continue with the status quo or we can put this collapsing law behind us and end this failed experiment. let's make it easier for people to afford their health insurance. let's give people more choices and more control over their care. let's make insurance companies come in and compete for your business. let's return power from washington to the states. let's help get people peace of mind. let's put the patient, not the bureaucrats, at the center of the system. this bill does all of those
things. this bill delivers on the promises that we have made to the american people. you know, a lot of us have been waiting seven years to cast this vote. many of us are here because we pledge to cast this very vote. to repeal and replace obamacare. to rescue people from this collapsing law. are we going to meet this test? are we going to be men and women of our word? are we going to keep the promises that we made? or are we going to falter? no. after all of this, after all of this, after seeing what is happening in iowa, and around the country, after seeing this law collapsing, while we witness
it across the country, knowing all this turmoil that is coming we will not falter, we will replace, and today is the day that we're going to do this. today this house has the opportunity to do more than just fulfill a promise. we have the opportunity to raise our gaze and set a bold course for our country. we have the opportunity to show that we've got the resolve to tackle the big challenges in this country before they tackle us. to stop the drift of arrogance, big government policies in our lives and begin a new era of reform based on liberty and self-determination, giving people choices, letting them control their own destinies. that is the day that is before us right here. so let us pass this bill, to take the next step to put obamacare behind us, let us pass this bill, to build a better
from physical therapists to feeding tubes under a notice provision of the health care bill states would no longer have to consider schools eligible medicaid providers. how deeply could this potential bill if it passes the senate in its current form, what would it mean potentially for schools and other medicate funded programs? >> this would be devastating to schools, to a lot of small rural communities. if you think about a state like south carolina, there is a lot of smaller organizations that rely on medicaid to not only deliver care to people who are in need of educational settings, but they're also an important part of the community.
this bill has negative impacts on children, on families, on seniors, on people who don't have a whole lot of income. so we can't continue to move forward as a country if we continue to undermine the people who need the support the most. that's why it doesn't make sense for this to move forward in this way. it might get 217 votes, but again, there is a spike in the football at the 50-yard line. thank god we have a united states senate who will get the score and the numbers of exactly what this will cost. we know the original bill was going to take health coverage from more than 20 million people. that's not moving america forward. that's why we have to be vigilant in this conversation and make sure the people who work in health care, the hospitals, the people who run the programs, the people who deliver care to patients in need are involved in the conversation. they do not support the affordable health care act because they know it takes us backwards. >> phil, we don't have a cbo score, but the senate says this bill would lead to massive
increases for folks in this high risk pool. some with preexisting conditions could see their premiums increase by as much as $142,000. let's keep this graphic up because i want folks to look at some of the other groups that are considered preexisting and the possible effects according to them. how is the senate going to figure these numbers during the recess? >> i'm not in support of this bill or the process, but i think it's important to point out a few things. one, the center for american progress is a very liberal think tank that is a proponent of obamacare. so i think those numbers should be put out with that disclosure. secondly, i don't think there's been enough discussion of the tradeoffs involved in health care. i think that republicans have been dishonest in sort of saying that there hasn't been a
tradeoff, but i think liberals have been dishonest, too, because they talk about covering preexisting conditions and of mandating all these benefits, but they haven't been honest of the fact that those drive up premiu premiums. the reason why younger and healthier people are not signing up for obamacare, the reason why their premiums are going way up is that the obamacare forces insures people who are older and circumstance, limits what they can charge and only gives younger and healthier people the choice of having very expensive health insurance policies that have very expensive comprehensive coverage. not everyone wants comprehensive coverage. and so there are tradeoffs. the reason why people are leaving obamacare, they're not signing up in high numbers, premiums are going up. you're seeing insurers pull out even before donald trump was even on the political radar, and this was all happening. and so let's just be honest
about the tradeoffs. the question isn't people wanting to be covered in preexisting conditions, the question is are they willing to pay drastically high premiums and having fewer choices in order to do that. maybe they decide it's still worth it, but let's have an honest conversation that recognizes the policy tradeoffs. >> the vote to repeal and replace obamacare is underway. it will be underway soon. middle of your screen that vote is about to happen. we're going to take a quick break. use in 5 days, 10 hours and 2 minutes you are going to be 67. and on that day you will walk into a room where 15 people will be waiting... 12 behind the sofa, 2 behind the table and 1 and a half behind a curtain. family: surprise! but only one of them will make a life long dream come true.
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use clorox disinfecting products. because no one kills germs better than clorox. hey you've gotta see this. cno.n. alright, see you down there. mmm, fine. okay, what do we got? okay, watch this. do the thing we talked about. what do we say? it's going to be great. watch. remember what we were just saying? go irish! see that? yes!
i'm gonna just go back to doing what i was doing. find your awesome with the xfinity x1 voice remote. the vote happening right now. that's going to do it for msnbc live. my partner katy tur picks this up now. >> nail biting moment now. we're at the white house where the senate is voting on the health care plan now. house speaker paul ryan addressed the chamber just moments ago. >> addressing this chamber he called on congress to act. and today we take the next step to repeal and replace obamacare. minority leader nancy pelosi speaking just moments ago as well.