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tv   MSNBC Live  MSNBC  May 9, 2017 12:00pm-1:01pm PDT

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should too. lester holt has a sit down with president trump this week. his one on one with trump airs on thursday on nightly news. check your local listings. that will do it for me. see you back here tomorrow. same time, same place. ali picks things up right no. >> have a great afternoon. here are the top stories starting with what could be a new chapter in america's longest war. the trump administration would send thousands more troops to afghanistan. a source told us that decision could happen soon. plus, what happened in the 18 days, how long it was between the time former acting attorney general sally yates said she warned the white house about national security adviser mike flynn and when they fired him. three weeks after he killed himself in prison, former nfl star aaron hernandez is legally a free man. a massachusetts judge agreeing to erase his murder conviction. let's start where all the action
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is this hour in the nation's capital. chris jansing is on the north lawn of the white house. hans nichols at the pentagon and in d.c., a former u.s. ambassador to rusa and a nato deputy secretary general. a lot to talk to him about. chris, let's start with you. what's the latest from the white house on this possible troop deployment? >> we thought we might get an answer quickly because the president is going to that big meeting next week and the early word had been that he would make a decision by then. we heard from sean spicer there is no timeline. he asked for a comprehensive review to look at what their options are. the reports are he wants to start winning again. here's what sean spicer said about that. >> one of the things he has asked his national security team to do is to actually rethink the strategy. what are we doing to achieve the
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goals that you are asking about. how do we win? how do we eliminate the threat? i think doing that is not just a question of throwing money or people, but looking at the mission and the strategy and that's what the team has been doing not just in afghanistan, but the total beyond afghanistan is the way he is asking to look at the threat. >> that indicating that there are a lot of different things on the table in addition this rumored number of about 3,000 troops. again, we are waiting to see what the final proposal is and what the president finally decides. there are currently about 8400 u.s. troops operating in afghanistan. >> that's a good starting point. let's remind everyone about the situation. i will show you a map from the "wall street journal." it shows what the situation is now. let's put that map up and i will refer to the various parts in it. i can't ta about itnless we have it up. look at the map.
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the shades of purple determine how much the taliban controls things. dark purple is where they have more complete control. in the province at the bottom, the taliban controls almost all of it. the lighter is influence or developing influence. as chris said, there are 8400 u.s. troops in afghanistan and on top of that, about 5,000 nato forces. now the reports as chris reported is there could be another 3,000 more american troops on the way. this is the longest war in american history. kids in high school were not alive when this war started. 2200 american soldiers died in that time and 20,000 injured. what are you hearing about this? >> i'm hearing that secretary mattis has not made his formal recommendations on the policy review to president trump. that gives you an indication there were several days if not weeks away from the troop level decision. to me the most important thing
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we heard from sean spicer was the verb he used. eliminate the threat and not annihilate. normally you have degrade, defeat, destroy, and then annihilate. it's a continuum. what they are talking about with isis and syria is annihilate. complete destruction. a quick note, they didn't use the terminology in mosul. the plan was to let some of them escape and kill them later. and the final stage of the campaigner, the beginning of the end in syria, they are talking about annihilation. heading thes from what spicer said, the eliminate verb and what he was talking about, i would not expect a huge troop increase for afghanistan. that's the vibe we are picking up at the pentagon. eryone said numbers have not been solidified and gelled. what we know is the top general said he needs a few thousand and we know for the counter terrorism strategy, this is going after isis, this is going
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after al qaeda. the top special forces commander thinks he has enough troops. to me the signalling was wait a little bit longer for a number and two, the number may not be that big. >> very interesting development. we top the get deeper into this. always great to hear from both of you. i want to turn to the man i introduced you to. the ambassador is a former ambassador to russia and nato deputy secretary general. let's pick up where hans left off. annihilate? the british empire couldn't annihilate fighters in afghanistan. the russian empire couldn't do it. we are talking about 3,000 more soldiers. this seems like to be generous, wishful thinking. >> it is a very frustrating situation because we have been in afghanistan for a decade and a half and transferred most of the responsibility from american and nato troops to the afghans
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themselves. they have been struggling and taken huge casualties. they increased the control of the territory. so when the stander said it's a stalemate, they are right. when they want to invest more in afghanistan, the objective in the past was to prevent them from being a safe haven for terrorism. that's still a reasonable objective. it may take a few more troops for a short period of time, but we have to be careful about turning it into the endless war. >> what's the line between a failed state and a safe haven for terrorism. that's just to be clear, that's a different line than annihilating the taliban or annihilaa ni nileating al qaeda in a region no one has been able to conquer. >> the safe haven versus failed state.
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the taliban is still veriy is neighbors and both under the bush and obama administration is to arrive in a settlement in which the taliban will lay down the arms in return for a role in the government going forward. you have to put more pressure to get them to negotiate. that's where it may make sense. we have to be careful. >> some people don't think that's a deal with the definitely, but and tunisia could be an example. it's tentative, but it's kind of working. >> that's right. you are not going to be able to eliminate every fighter or extinguish the ideology. you have to find a pragmatic compromise. right now they think they are on the upswing.
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so additional pressure and more equipment and training for the afghan armed forces is necessary. maybe additional. the political solution has to be the way the story ends. >> in afghanistan with the efforts to arm a group of people. former secretary of state condoleezza rice was on the morning show where she talked about the potential russian role with mat lauer. listen with me. >> do you worry about a collision course with russia because as you know, it has been reported that the russians are sending troops to the taliban and are you fighting russian armed taliban troops on the ground? >> one of the first
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conversations needs to be with vladimir putin and say do you want to get back into afgh afghanistan after what happened before. there is no reason for the russians to be arming the taliban. that needs to take place and i'm sure when secretary tillerson meets with the foreign minster, that will come up. >> that's interesting. do you agree? does any conversation about an increased presence start with a conversation with russia to say please don't arm the other side? >> we have to talk with the russians and our allies and countries outside of nato who have been there for a decade and a half with us. they need to be consulted too. we have to talk to the russian who is did indeed end up in a quagmyre themselves and had to pull out at the end of the 80s. if they are arming the taliban and the commanders themselves are convinced of it, they are playing with fire. they are going to make a bad situation worse including for themselves. this could spread into central
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asia which they say is an area of vital interest with them. >> your view is interesting. talking about annihilating afghanistan has not worked in the history of the world. thanks for joining us. >> you're welcome. >> ambassador is a former ambassador to russia. coming up, senate majority leader mitch mcconnell creates a 13 man, that's man, and zero women, group to talk about health care. it lies in the hands of congress and at 4:00 eastern, the premier of deadline white house with nicole wallace right here on msnbc. there's nothing more important to me than my vacation. so when i need to book a hotel room, i want someone that makes it easy to find what i want. booking.com gets it. they offer free cancellation, in case i decide to go from kid-friendly to kid-free. now i can start relaxing
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after the high stakes vote in the house, it is the senate's turn. senate republicans have set up an all manned working group crafting a health care bill e 13 republicans met for a second time and they focused on the issue of medicaid. for more i want to bring in mike viquiera who is following the latest on capitol hill. before i ask you too much about this working group, did these guys not think of these things? no women on a health care bill who has been criticize said for gutting women's health care. they don't think when they do this? >> i don't think it even occurred to them. after today and the comments we heard from republican leaders, the first public comments since
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the advent of this group, there is a basic rule. when you are talking about the senate health care republican working group, we don't talk about the senate health care republican working group. that's the first rule of the club. mitch mcconnell said there is no particular working group. this of course after a fury when it was revealed the 13 individuals on this group were all men. that was standing near the floor of the republicans at the female republicans of the 52 republicans in the senate. this was an issue for quite sometime now. republicans were eager to let it be known when they met twice today, once in the select group and again at lunch, there was a woman in their midst. one of the four from west virginia. the subject was medicaid and west virginia relies on medicaid and a big recipient. yesterday the senator from west virginia told our producers up here those are choices that were made. i don't know as a woman i'm
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going to be participating very loudly. susan collins of maine, a republican colleague of hers had similar comments about being left off. shelly moore was invited into the group to talk to the group. again, that was about medicaid. it appears that republicans, abandoning the idea of a working group or denying the existence to begin with. >> let's assume and take it at face value that such a group exists. what's the main goal? to be organized so when a bill comes forward you don't have the same horse and pony show in the house where some people know about it and some like it and some don't like it and all republicans are at least talking from the same song book? singing, i guess. >> this is politics and optics will be a part of it. they wanted us to know that they were meeting and taking up the baton from the republican colleagues in the house and starting to move forward on this. even though every senator up here, every republican senator and even the democrats recognize
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that this process if it is to come to completion is going to take months. it's both a function of the way the senate works and the contentious provisions that are on the table here including medicaid expansion and the funding for planned parenthood and any number of preexisting -- the preexisting conditions that came out of the house and the health benefits that go on down the line. it's going to take a while. republican senators are a little bit of a rocky start in terms of public relations. this is going to be a long haul. >> good to see you. mike viquiera at the capitol. i want to bring in tom cole of oklahoma who voted for last week's health care bill in the house. good to see you. thank you for joining us. >> good to see you. >> i want to run you a clip and you bet you heard this. your colleague's clip went viral over the weekend. >> you are mandating people on medicaid accept dying. you are making --
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>> no one wants anybody to die. that line is so indefensible. nobody dies because they don't have access to health care. >> i don't understand. that's a strange statement to make. nobody dies because of access to health care. what's your take on this? >> it was misunderstand and misspoke. i have a lot of sympathy having done that myself. i understand he was trying to make a point. you are entitled to get health care at any hospital whether you can pay for it or not. you still have to treat patients. that's the point he was trying to make. >> he went and characterized it as emergency care. a lot of people die for lack of health care don't require an emergency room. if you don't have health care, you can die of cancer and a lot of things that don't require to you go to a hospital and need emergency care, but you need
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long-term care. >> look, i agree with that, but the rhetoric here has gotten over the top. it makes about as much sense to accuse republicans of wanting people to die as it did of accusing democrats of running death panels. the rhetoric gets in the way of trying to get to the problem in an efficient way and hopefully we can get past th. >> i appreciate you trying to get past that. the senate working group i was talking about, we are talking about medicate. we don't have a new score for the bill which is a troubling matter on its. based on the old bill, the cvo estimated it would cut $839 billion over 10 years to medicaid and projected by 202614 million fewer people would be enrolled. how do you reconcile that. you necessary a state where people benefit from medicaid and some hospitals are open only
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because they are paid for by medicaid. >> we are not a medicaid expansion state. we are one of the 19 states that is not. medicaid as it exists here would be fine. if you are in a medicaid expansion state, that's another consideration that you don't have. the real question is can you deliver quality care, affordable care at a rate that we can afford as a country? i can make an argument pretty strongly in my state. we are down to single provider and that provider is losing money, god bless him and he is still in the market. we will have a 69% rate increase and because we are not a medicaid expansion state, our hospitals are treating a class of patients that other states are getting reimbursement for. the republican bill is a better bill for us. there is money for hospital and tax credits for individuals and a chance to get other people back into the market. i'm like you. i'm interested in seeing what the senate does and glad they
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are focussed on this. had we not passed a bill in the house, i have cautioned everybody. this is going to be different. the senate will come up with something different and we will do what the constitution requires. we will go to conference and work out the differences and come up with a plan that is better for the american people. >> o of the issues, my complaint is there is no cbo score. i would findt hard to vote one way or another without it. most people didn't read the bill. did you? >> i did. frankly it's so much shorter than obamacare. it's only a couple hundred pages long. that's in contrast to the 2400 page obamacare bill that i assure you most people didn't read. >> to get a full understanding, you would have to have read obamacare. >> which i did, by the way. regardless of that, partly it's because this is part of a much
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more -- a bigger process. there are things that tom price would do and parts of obamacare to be left intact. the indian health care or health improvement act is still intact. being able to keep your kids on your insurance until they are 26. there is a lot of things. it is overlap and change and continuity as well. >> you made a reference to hospitals or insurers losing money. it's a perverse incentive to assume people can make money off of prisons or health care. isn't it fair to think it's not a good business? >> i don't know that it's not a good business. frankly a lot of people in health care that make a lot of money off of it and american health care providers are better compensated than providers in other parts of the world. there is that. it's also a very innovative
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business. the pharmaceutical research is much more productive than anywhere on the planet. a lot of the improvements have made life better for everybody. they have been generated by the american health care system. >> i agree with you. it's like so much in america and so innovative and doubled to three times the cost of so many other developed nations. it's a puzzlement we will have to figure out. good to talk to you as always and thank you for joining me. coming up next, chaos as a fight breaks out in a florida airport. punches thrown and arrests made and hundreds stranded. why? (burke) at farmers, we've seen almost everything, so we know how to cover almost anything. even a coupe soup.
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we are back and 3,000 more troops could be headed to afghanistan. the decision could come to add to the 8400 u.s. forces already fighting america's longest war. total chaos erupted at the florida airport last night after irate spirit airlines customers were stranded for hours. flights were abruptly canceled due to an ongoing labor dispute.
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they filed a lawsuit saying pilots are engaging in an illegal work slow down. the violence association said that's not true. they want better contracts for the pilots. president obama back in the spotlight. this time in milan, italy talking climate change. this will define the contours of the century more dramatically than any other. >> he added the differences will lead to useful debates on climate change. and a quick programming note, don't miss the exclusive one-on-one interview with president trump this thursday only on nbc news. contrary to what some, including a certain gop congressman believed, the lack of access to reliable health care does cost people their lives. we will bring you the facts on that after the break.
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jimmy kimmel has the moving plea on health care that went viral. >> it was an emotional speech made by millions and republicans in congress had second thoughts about repeal and replace. they realized what is right is right and i saved health insurance in the united states of america. thank you. i didn't save it? they voted against it anyway? i need to pay more attention to the news.
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quote
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>> you are mandating people on medicaid accept dying. >> that line is so indefensible. nobody dies because they don't have access to health care. >> in case you didn't hear that clearly, that was a congressman who said nobody dies because of a lack of access to health care. raul labrador of idaho. that went viral. the fact of the matter is that people do actually die because of having no access to health care. the congressman labrador released a statement that made it worse. during 10 hours of town halls, one of my answers about health care was not very elegant. i was responding to the false notion that the health care plan will cause people to die in the streets which i completely
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reject. i want to bring in a professor at city university of new york, a lecturer at harvard medical school and the coauthor of a study that we are about to take a look at in today's episode of for fact's sake. thank you for being with us. let me start off with this that comes right from the study. in 2009, 45,000 people in america died from a lack of health insurance in america. make sense of this. >> we looked at people who were followed for about 12 years and looked at the difference between people who had insurance and people who didn't and adjusting for how healthy they were at the beginning and whether they smoke and got exercise and all those things. you are much more likely to die if you had no health insurance than if you had it. it was about one person for every 1,000 uninsured who died each year. we had5 million uninsured that year and one out of 1,000 were dying and that's where that
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45,000 deaths comes from. >> we are hearing as a response that everybody has to get treatment at a hospital. they can't turn you away and in an emergency they kent turn you away. many die for absence of healing care that have nothing to do with the emergency room. >> you can't get that with strokes and heart attacks. frankly people who are uninsured don't go to the imagine room. they are having chest pain and i'm not sure what it is. that causes them to die unnecessarily. >> almost every other industrialized country has a form of universal health care. people still die in the countries earlier than the life expectancy for reasons such as -- >> we know there are car accidents and a lot of things that people may smoke when they shouldn't. there are many preventable and
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early deaths in other countries than in the united states. we have a shorter life expectancy than other countries and if we look at how many preventable deaths there are, there are many more than in canada or france or germany. other countries. >> let's look at another finding. prior to obamacare in 2009 when the study was done, uninsured working age americans had a 40% higher risk of death than those who were privately insured. another step that supports the same underlying concept. why is it if you have insurance you are likely not to die prematurely? >> again, it's those early prevention things that we think will stop you from dieing and preventing heart attacks and strokes and when you have an acute event like chest pain getting to the hospital when you need to, not hesitating because you are worried about the cost for kids. we know that kids with ma don't
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get the preventive medicines they need they are uninsured and they end up in the hospital and a few of them certainly die from that unnecessarily. >> representative mo brooks said this bill is a reward to people who take care of their bodies and they are not obese and they take responsibility over health care and there is a relationship between having insurance and knowing the information about those things that can cause you to take better care of yourself. >> absolutely. while it's a good thing to take great care of yourself, even with the best care, you will get sick and need the medical care. what the republicans are doing is saying we are going take the best estimate and throw them out of it. that's going to include people who have been taking good care of themselves. probably about 24,000 extra deaths each year. we ought to be going the other
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direction towards a single payer national health insurance system that could not cost us 24,000 deaths. we are also following news about the house energy and commerce committee over the distribution of opioid killers, pain killers in west virginia. these companies requesting information about hydrocodone and oxy codon't sales. the companies were sued in federal court by two counties. accusing them of creating a public health hazard by shipping large amounts of opioids. they are talking about claims that they backed away from against companies that sell opioids. cardinal health told ushey intent t defend themselves against themselves in march and work to defend tactics for those
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who obtain pain killers. that read in part, we look forward to continuing our work with regulators and other participants in the system to do our part we distribute directly to the drug enforcement system. you can read the 23u8 statement and they were reported extensively on the epidemic. the one thing that surprised me is this was bipartisan. nobody in the country thinks you
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will have to deal with this. they move down towards details. these drug distributors who in some ways are hitten from the public. they are the middle man. the doctor, the pharmacy, the big drugmakers. >> what's the aim and the best way to deal with it? >> we should divide this chronologically. a lot of the problem is not people on kripgz drugs and they moved offf that. nine million prescriptions in two years said the town. nine million pills.
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they filed for a period of about years until people started nosing around. for this long period of time you were shipping pills and no one the suspicious orders. >> the line we need to draw is between responsibility and where the problem came from and what you do about it. >> that's right. that's the problem. you have two problems and getting to the bottom of who is responsible. partly back to revenue. we have huge expenses hooked on your drugs. we need money for you. the question about how you deal with it, that's a much more -- whether you put it into the health infrastructure to get the treatment they need, there is unregulated drug treatment that is not evidence-based and
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doesn't produce results in people. a lot has to be built from the ground up infrastructure-wise. >> we have a big lesson about why there are some things that are effective in the fight against any kind of drug epidemic and why some things aren't. we ended up creating a nation of criminals. we have to do something different in the opioid treatment. >> it's interesting. again, this is one of the things where there is abstract consensus. people see how it bears out. along that consensus that people are in need of treatment, there is also this punishing impulse. i have seen it on the ground on places that they reported which has the highest drug abuse deaths in the country. there are these two impulses. a desire for treatment and this kind of old testament desire to punish. >> in 34r5iss like new york, more liberal tendencies and the
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safe injection sites comes up against that. >> and who will want to have that in the neighborhood. let's be clear. this is not something that is just happening. staten island, new york and in the bronx right now, huge levels of opioid addiction. this is transcending in this country right now. >> all the more reason to solve this problem. it's not a demographically contained situation. how to get people the treatment they ne. >> good to have youhere. thank you. >> be sure to tune in with chris hays and msnbc. you will be a smarter person for doing it. the massachusetts law that has allowed aaron hernandez to rest in peace technically as a free man. i will be joined by the family of the man who he was accused of killing.
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-- i know one day i'm going to see my son. >> that's the mother of o don lloyd speaking outside the courtroom earlier today following a judge's ruling throwing out the murder conviction of former new england patriot star aaron hernandez following his suicide last month. they were appealing the conviction and last month he took his own life while serving a sentence for killing lloyd. the massachusetts law allows for a conviction to be canceled if the inmate dies before the appeals court finalizes the conviction. i'm joined boy a wrongful death attorney for the lloyd family. you were in the courtroom today. it was an out come that many expected because of this unusual massachusetts law. tell me what you were hoping for.
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>> well, what i'm hoping for is what's best for the family. it is an honor to represent this family. they are truly people of strength, devotion, and faith and honor. they know as i do that this is merely one step in a journey for them. the ruling came down today and certainly the district attorney's office which is doing an excellent job stated that this case will be appealed to the supreme judicial court. there the court will have an opportunity to look at the laws to attempt to perhaps incorporate victims's rights more prominently in the system. we are hopeful. >> the local da said hernandez benefitted from an antiquated law that the rest of the country had similar laws and moved on. how do you change this?
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does a law have to be struck down and does it have to be legislated? what happens? >> it is not grounded in stad tori law, but common law. therefore as as the case makes its way up to the highest court in the land, again, this provides the supreme court judicial court, the highest court in massachusetts state court system to take this opportunity and to decide what's equitiable and what's fair, what should be the law going forward. here's an opportunity to address the issue of is it an antiquated law. it's a wonderful chance and we're hopeful for the family. >> tell me particularly this case, there's an ongoing civil suit the lloyd family is pursuing. does the vacation of this conviction affect the civil suit that the lloyd family is pursuing? >> we're confident that it does not. in our civil case, we have an
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order that is a -- as a result of a summary -- called a summary judgment order that establishes that aaron hernandez is indeed at fault with respect to the death of odin lloyd. we would in ordinary course carry our case forward to the damages stage and we're comfortable and confident that a well reasoned court will agree and we'll be allowed to pceed with the civil wrongful death case which allows for three types of damages. it allows for the sort of loss of comfort companionship guidance and support that a loving family member like odin lloyd provided and allows for pain and suffering damages and punitive damages in the case of reckless disregard. >> does it rely on fact that
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another court had a guilty finding? it doesn't necessarily? >> no, that aspect of of the case is yet to be tried. that aspect of the case would be where we would head next. >> doug sheff, appreciate it. thanks for joining us. >> an attorney for the odin lloyd family. we'll be right back. to not just accept what you see, but imagine something new. at invisalign®, we use the most advanced teeth straightening technology to help you find the next amazing version of yourself. it's time to unleash your secret weapon. it's there, right under your nose. get to your best smile up to 50% faster. visit invisalign.com to get started today.
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syrian kurds. joining me now is pentagon correspondent hans nichols, this is relevant because one of our nato members, turkey, is dead set against this idea. they see the kurds as an enme. >> the kurdish group is the ypg, they think it is pkk, shorthand for tristin surge entcy in their own country. remember, the obama era defense department wanted this to happen, to directly arm the kurds. but what it tells us about the campaign against isis, number one, the final stages against the capital in raqqa, being encircled, the end is near and final assault of raqqa. but two, it's also an indication that president trump in his effort to accelerate the fight against isis is willing to make some allies bristle.
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turkey is a nato ally, there will be difficult conversations, the president is scheduled -- turks have said he'e meeting with president trump. we don't have that confirmed from trump' side yet but it looks like there could be a difficult conversation between president erdogan and president trump. >> i'll be president trump and say, look, these folks have proved on the field that they are prepared to take casualties in fighting isis, they've had greater success than a lot of other groups who we apparently been funding and training and don't have any success. why won't you -- why do you not agree to us funding it? >> the turks haven't said this publicly, that that group is actively involved in insurgency that wants to create their own solvent state and they have actively killed turkish troops who are members of nato. but just on your first point,
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something you hear consistently here at the pentagon, the people doing the fighters taking on isis, it's a local force, remember in syria, we only have officially around 500 special forces the fighters doing the fighting in syria, the kurds, they are the ones that use the most bullets and most proficient, they kill the most bad guys. >> the other issue of course, the kurds have met with remarkable success in iraq, particularly in northern iraq. there's some sense even though they are a little different, not all alike and sometimes they fight with each other. there's some sense that they are looking once this is all settled, iraq and syria, at western support in gaining their own state. >> well, what pentagon officials say here, just because you clear land, it doesn't mean you'll get a hold -- just because you're part of the liberating force, that doesn't give you a claim. the claim to the land will be based on demoography and some
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sort -- hopefully some sort of u.n. strict tour. just because kurdish forces are helping take the land, that doesn't mean they get to hold it. the kurds came in and took it but now you have a counsel, an arab force holding the city. it doesn't necessarily allay the turk's fears. >> there's a consideration of adding to the american troops in afghanistan, 5,000 nato troops there, is that likely to happen? >> it's likely but i can't give you the timing and i would be very shy on a firm and final number. the latest reporting we have on troop levels and troop numbers in the whole proposal, secretary mattis has not given his recommendations to president trump. >> good to talk to you, thanks so much at the pentagon. that wraps up this hour for me. look for me on twitter and
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facebook on instagram. thank you for watching. deadline white house, first time ever with nicole wallace premieres right now. >> hi, everyone, thanks for joining us, i'm nicolle wallace in new york. it's 4:00, do you know where your president is? that's the question we'll ask here every day. today, sean spicer fires back to questions about the 18 days, the days between the acting attorney general's first warning to the white house and michael flynn might be compromised by russia and vul firing and briefing a short time ago called sally yates a political opponent of the president. >> let's look again how this came down. someone who is not exactly a supporter of the president's agenda who a couple of days after this first conversation took place, refused to uphold a lawful order of the president, who is not exactly someone that was excited about president

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