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tv   The Last Word With Lawrence O Donnell  MSNBC  June 2, 2017 10:00pm-11:01pm PDT

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i know a lot of people in my twit ir titer timeline that wery to hear from here. we'll be there on sunday night. >> as they say, we hear you ton twitter. >> yes. >> have a good weekend. >> all right. see you. thank you. neither one of them want to blame russia for interfering in the u.s. election. and there is breaking news about the russia investigation that is more bad news for the white house. the probe is expanding. and new tonight, democrats are warning the president do not try to obstruct. >> hackers can be anywhere. >> somebody sitting in a bed some place. >> very skillfully and professionally shifted the blame as we say on to russia. >> they seem strikingly on message with president trump. >> this russia thing with trump and russia is a made-up story. it's an excuse by the democrats. >> could you imagine something
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like that? i can. >> he knows that we know that he did this. okay. let's be clear about that. >> the special counsel's investigation may expand the look by attorney jeff sessions and deputy in the firing of fbi director james comey. >> now we have robert muler who is going to investigatthe folks who hired him. >>he eire thing has been a witch-hunt. >> is the white house going to revoke executive privilege to prevent james comey from testifying? >> have i not spoken to counsel yet. i don't know how they're going to respond. >> the president make that decision. >> pro tip. if you want to exert executive privilege, don't fire the guy, oh, i was going to fire, regardless. >> and breaking tonight, robert mueller, the special counsel running the investigation into possible ties between donald trump's campaign and russia is broadening his mandate. tonight the associated press reports that mueller has assumed oversight of the justice
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department's ongoing criminal probe involving former trump campaign chairman paul manafort and the investigation. quote, may also expand to look into the roles of the attorney general, jeff sessions, and deputy attorney general rod rosenstein in the firing of fbi director james comey. deputy ag rosenstein confirmed to the ap press there is a chance robert mueller could expand the inquiry to include him and jeff session. now here is what makes this even more interesting. guess whose permission robert mueller needs in order to expand his investigation? deputy ag rosenstein, who told the associated press i talked to mueller about this. he is going to make the appropriate decisions. if anything i did winds up being relevant to his investigation then, as director mueller and i discussed, if there is a need for me to recuse, he will. you heard that right. the deputy attorney general may recuse himself from any >> is the white house going to invoke executive privilege to prevent james comey from testifying before the senate intelligence panel next week? >> that committee hearing was just noticed. and i think obviously, it's got to be reviewed. >> so that is not a no? >> i'm just saying i don't -- literally, my understanding is the date for that hearing was just set. i have not spoken to counsel literally, my understanding is the date for that hearing was
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just set. intelligence panel next week? invoke executive privilege to prevent james comey from testifying before the senate intelligence panel next week? >> that committee hearing was just noticed. and i think obviously, it's got to be reviewed. >> so that is not a no? >> i'm just saying i don't -- literally, my understanding is thdate f that hearing was just set. i have not spoken to counsel yet. i don't know what that -- how they're going to respond. >> and late tonight top democrats on the house judiciary committee sent a letter to white house council don mcgahn warning the president not to block comey's testimony. writing "use of executive privilege to block mr. comey would be a mistake. well also warn you that the
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public would likely and perhaps rightly view the decision as obstruction of justice." and according to a new report, the white house and the justice department may have good reason to be concerned about jim comey's testimony. the former fbi director apparently was never told by jeff sessions or by rod rosenstein that they were concerned about his leadership before he was fired. and now comey's reportedly angry and ready to put almost anything and everything on the table in his testimony, including whether he felt pressure from the white house to back off the russia probe, and details regarding the memos that he drafted following some of his conversations with donald trump. joining us now are david frum, senior editor for the atlantic. renato marriotty, former assistant attorney for the northern district of illinois and he has prosecuted in federal obstruction of justice cases. and john harwood, editor at large for cnbc. on this question of executive privilege, courts have
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recognized a president's constitutional right to keep his discussions a secret in most cases. does that go for the fbi director that he fired in his own wos to stop him investigating donald trump and his campaign? >> well, certainly the president could -- could ask mr. comey not to testify as to certain subjects. and mr. comey could comply with that request if he wanted to. i suspect he might. if he didn't, however, it's hard to see how the administration could force mr. comey not to testify about certain subjects. it would be completely unprecedented. and the only way that they could do that would literally be to go to court and seek an injunction from a federal court to prevent him from testifying. >> to stay with you for just one second, i want to play for you a little bit of what donald trump said to lester holt. you tell me whether already publicly discussed things, things he said on the record into a tv camera could possibly then be privileged and put under
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executive privilege. listen to donald trump. >> did you ask am i under investigation? >> i actually asked him, yes. i said, "if it's possible, will you let me know am i under investigation? you are not under investigation." >> did you at any time urge former fbi director james comey in any way, shape or form to close or the back down the investigation into michael flynn? and also, as you look -- >> no, no. next question. >> can he then claim executive privilege for things he said on the record? >> no, he could not. the point of executive privilege is to protect sensitive information, private, confidential information. so if the president waived that privilege by disclosing those communications to the public, then there would be no privilege. what there would be a debate over i'me between the administration and congress would be the scope of his waiver. in other words, did he waive the entire conversation or just certain portions of that conversation. but certain there would be a waiver over the portions he discussed with lester holt and others.
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>> so far the cover that donald trump has enjoyed is because republicans, even in the senate, have been loathe to really go after him without also sort of carrying along all this baggage about unmasking and other things. lindy graham who gets a lot of credit in the media for being tough on donald trump had this to say on fox news about comey's testimony and his worries there about. >> you got to realize that the man is going to testify has just gotten fired. and his team or people around him have been leaking a lot of stuff. so here is what i worry about. that he'll just focus on his conversation with the president and not answer any other questions because of the investigation. that would be a hit job on president trump. >> and john, from your reporting, do you get the sense that if donald trump were try to use executive privilege to force jim comey to be silent that he would have the cover of senate republicans? >> i think every time donald
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trump takes these risky moves like firing comey, like trying to block his testimony if that's what the white house ends up deciding, their reservoir of support from republicans gets thinner and thinner. republicans find it more and more difficult to justify what the president is doing. with the president having discussed first of all that he asked james comey if he was under investigation, you've got to wonder why would the president feel motived to ask that question. secondly, the fact that he has said that he fired james comey thinking that the russia investigation was fake news. who would think in that circumance that president trump would be trying to block that testimony for a good reason, for a reason related to the principles of protecting advice to the executive? very few people and very few republicans on capitol hill. >> do you concur with that, david?
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so far republicans have shown a complete tolerance for almost anything, no matter how scandalous. donald trump could exert executive privilege and lindsey graham and john mccain would say he had a right to do it and cover him, right? >> they've gone pretty far down the road. the worse he looks, the farther they go because they're trapped. it becomes ever more inescapable that if he sinks, everybody else sinks. notice donald trump doesn't have a legislative strategy by this. he doesn't ask the republicans first. as john said, he makes these risky moves. he counts on the republicans to follow him. and that's a good calculation until one day it stops being a good calculation. i want to direct attention, though, to something that was said in your setup package. this does deserve some attention. you had that clip of vladimir putin seemingly denying the hack. but later in that same interview, he said he acknowledged the hack was probably done by what he called patriotic russians. in other words, vladimir putin just did to donald trump what donald trump so often does to sean spicer which is cut out his deniability from him there is no seth rich story there.
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there is no disgruntled dnc employee leaking. now we don't admit the russian state did it, but there are these patriotic russians, hundreds of them spending millions of dollars of resources who did the hack. and i think at this point the whole seth rich story in which one of your competing networks has invested so ch energy and ability it disintegrates. vladimir putin disavowed it. that's also an important moment because it takes away the possibility for republicans in the senate to say this was anything other than a hostile foreign attack on the american electoral process. >> it does seem that the cover stories keep getting whisked away. "the washington post" came out and reveal that the house intelligence committee which spent a lot of time talking about unmaxing and devin nunes that. >> did it as well. last year the republican-controlled house intelligence committee asked u.s. spy agencies to reveal the names of individuals and organizations containing classified intelligence on russia's meddling in the 2016
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election. same practice they accused obama of there. doesn't seem to be a lot of cover left. >> let's be honest. this unmasking thing is completely a partisan shield that republicans are trying to use to protect the president. we're talking about a fact pattern that is very concerning, and that i think robert mueller get to the bottom of. remember, we had a -- the president's son said a disproportionate part of our business was with russia. donald trump sold a mansion in florida for $95 million to a russian. took his beauty pageant over to moscow. said he wanted to be vladimir putin's best friend. campaigned for the presidency, never saying a bad word about vladimir putin. russians had a massive hack of targets within the united states to try to tip the election in the assessment of our intelligence agencies toward donald trump. donald trump becomes president, fires the fbi director investigating the interference in the election. and then on his first trip abroad, does precisely what
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moscow has sought for a long time, which is place strains in the western alliance. this could be the fishiest looking set of coincidences ever, but i think robert mueller is going to sort that out. >> and renato gets the question. at what point does all of this fishiness become attempted obstruction? is it the fiing of the fbi director or something else? you have prosecuted these cases. have you seen so far what looks like obstruction of justice or just in the impeachment sense? >> well, those are two separate questions. but certainly what would have to be proven in a criminal sense would be a corrupt intent. in other words, did the president act corruptly in the actions that he took? and that would require a look at all the facts and circumstances of the case, which of course we don't know. but some of those facts might be, for example, asking the ag and the vice president to leave the room when he spoke to -- allegedly spoke to mr. comey, et cetera.
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i'm sure mr. mueller is going to be looking at a lot of that. i think what would ultimately break open an investigation would be a cooperator like a michael flynn. >> and that would be the question, david frum, who is who might be that person? you have michael flynn's businesses being looked at, paul manafort's businesses looked at. very quickly, is there someone you see that could be the flipper here? >> the flipper tends to be the person that w.h.o. is in the greatest legal jeopardy. that's probably paul manafort because of disclosure rules and maybe tax questions as well. it's not clear how much he would know about goings on inside the administration. >> yeah, absolutely. john harwood, david frum, and rena marriotti, thank you very much. >> thank you. coming up, you're going to the russian banker who met with jared kushner doesn't want to talk about his meeting. what if we pull customer insights from the data in real time?
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what the experts say is that this couldn't have been faked. that it's not one factor, that it's 100 factors that point to russia. they say it's the forensics. its digital fingerprint. >> translator: what fingerprints or hooves prints? what you talking about? they can be invented, you know.
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sergey gorkov, the russian banker who had a secret meeting with then presidents-elect donald trump's son-in-law, jared kushner in december now refuses
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to say what the two men talked about in that meeting. on thursday it emerged that the white house and the state-owned bank owned by gorkov gave conflicting explanations for what the meeting was about. this is what happened when nbc's keir simmons asked gorkov for an explanation. >> you're the subject of intense scrutiny in america because of your meeting with donald trump's son-in-law, jared kushner. >> -- >> i know you do. but the thing is there is some confusion what happened. were you talking about business or were you talking about politics? >> no comments, please. >> have you contacted by the fbi or would you be prepared to talk to them, mr. gorkov? i'm sorry. mr. gorkov, mr. gorkov. just a question of understanding what happened in the meeting. >> no comments. please. >> please don't push me out of the way. i just want to ask you about the meeting that you had with jared kushner. >> sorry.
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>> please explain. we really do want to hear what happened, if it was an innocent meeting, please just explain what happened in the meeting, mr. gorkov. >> now that happened outside an economic forum in st. petersburg where russian president vladimir putin said that scrutiny of the meetings between the russian ambassador and trump associates was, quote, hysteria. vladimir putin also spoke to nbc news in an exclusive interview where he suggested that american hackers might have framed russia for interfering in the election. >> you had said for months that russia had nothing to do with interference with the american election. and then this week you floated the idea of patriotic hackers. doing it. why the change? >> well, i hadn't said anything. it's just that french journalists asked me about those hackers. i told them the same thingy tell you. hackers can be anywhere. they can be in russia, in asia, even in america. latin america. there can even bihacers, by the way, in the united states.
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very skillfully and professionally shifted the blame, as we say, on to russia. you imagine something like that? in the midst of a political battle by some calculations it was convenient for them to release this information so they released it, citing russia. could you imagine something like that? i can. >> and you see that full interview with vladimir putin on sunday night, 7:00 p.m. on nbc. and joining us now, max boot, senior fellow for national security studies at the council on foreign relations and a former defense policy adviser for mitt romney 2012. and also joining us is senior fellow at the atlantic council and an expert on russia. i want to go back to the gorkov meeting there was two conflicting stories when we first learned about the meeting. the bank said the meeting was in jared kushner's capacity as a business own. >> that they were meeting with various american business people and trying to expand relations. the incoming white house said
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no, no, no, this was jared kushner acting as a diplomat. which seems to ring more true? do these banks meet with people in their diplomatic capacity? >> first of all, mr. gorkov is not a banker. he was educated at the security service academy of the ussr, the successor of the kgb. he then worked for ucos, a company that mr. putin crushed. and he was the only one in that network of executives that moved to london and then came back and got elevated into key government positions. and people in that bank that fled the country or the oligarch that putin crushed believe according to a story in russian "forbes" that he cooperated all the way through with the security services. he may have been a plant. so mr. gorkov is very likely not a banker. and anyone who is in a responsible position in the transition of an elected -- of the elted president-elect of
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the united states should be open to getting proper intelligence about who he is meeting with and to know that he is probably meeting with a russian agent of the russian state and in fact a russian security official. >> and in fact, max, "the washington post" reported on thursday that there is a discussion that sergey gorkov may have flown directly to see vladimir putin directly after meeting with jared kushner. this story says a twin-engine jet owned by a company linked to this company veb flew to moscow from the united states departed from outside new york city at 5:01 december 14th. that's according to flight aware which tracks these things. the plane's previous flights closely mirror mr. gorkov's publicly known travels in recent months, including his trip to st. petersburg this week and after leaving on december 14th, the jet headed to japan, where putin happened to be visiting on december 15th and 16th. you all of these sort of movements that appear that he was in fact a russian agent. you explain how it could be that an american business person, for instance, wouldn't have known? because these weren't sanctions about the hacking.
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these were actually sanctions related to the invasion of crimea. >> let's keep in mind that jared kushner was not a standard american businessman. he is the son-in-law of the president-elect. >> right. >> who also just met with the russian ambassador and allegedly suggested to him that he set up a secure communications link using russian equipment to communicate a back channel to moscow, right after an election in which putin and his intelligence service intervened to help get donald trump elected. and by the way, remember, these are not the only links between them. reuters reported a couple of weeks ago that there were 18 previously undisclosed contacts between the trump campaign and the russians between april and november of 2016. and recall, for example, that kushner was the head of data analytics for the trump campaign. we now know that the russian were advertising on facebook to help the trump campaign. so that suggests some things that they may have been talking about. >> yeah. >> this really -- again, there could be an innocent explanation for this. but i have no idea what it could possibly be. and the trump campaign, the
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trump administration is not advancing an explanation. >> adrian, then you have this information that emerged this week that the trump administration incoming was actively seeking a way to unilaterally potentially drop sanctions against russia, to give them back the facilities that were taken from them by the obama administration because of the hacking. i mean, it does sort of build toward a pattern that this was an agreement. >> but remember, general flynn was there in the early days, the very few days that he was there. and we know, and we knew even before this his relationship with russia today, the fact that he was receiving funds from the russians. look, it's clear that if not for all of these issues that have emerged, president trump would have wanted to reach an accommodation with russia or find some kind of a new concord with russia. >> why does vladimir putin want that so badly? >> i think vladimir putin wants a break between europe, which is very nervous about russia taking swaths of territory from
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ukraine, invading a neighboring country. you know, russia has built up a huge military presence on its western perimeter. it was putin that dropped the conventional forces in europe treaty. and of course i shouldn't be taking. you're the expert on security issues. but in any event, russia is positioned militarily in a very aggressive posture. they talk about nato expansion. but the u.s. withdrew hundreds of thousands of forces from europe and instead they got the baltic states and so on. so europe is relatively weaker in its military posture relative to wt it was before the cold war with the russians shifting massively their forces to the western perimeter. >> yeah. and very quickly, who would have been on that campaign in a position to tell jared kushner that wait a minute, here is the situation with russia. this is who this supposed banker might be. who on the campaign would have been doing those briefings? >> well, they were certainly getting briefings from the obama administration. but whether they were listening to them or not is another question. i think the real question is,
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joy, what did president trump know and when did he know it? i find it very hard to believe that people like jared kushner and mike flynn are able to carry out these high level back channel communications with the russians without having trump know about it. i suspect he did know about it. and we may find out than in the course of bob mueller's investigation. >> i believe i recalled it from last summer when donald trump was not getting his briefings, michael flynn was taking them. thank you very much. up next, sean spicer was asked to explain donald trump's plan to handle the problems caused by his decision to pull out of the paris climate accords. sean spicer says the white house, they haven't gotten around to that yet. that's next. hey, need fast heartburn relief?
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>> translator: and i should say we should be grateful to president trump because today in moscow i hear they're saying it snowed. you know, it's raining here. it's very cold. so now we can blame him for that and american imperialism. that's what it's all there for. >> that was russian president vladimir putin having a little fun at america's expense earlier today. that seems to be going around these days. the mocking of the united states and its president. leader of the free world is something of a term of art, which is a title ascribed to the united states since the late 1940s after world war ii. it's something americans have been intensely proud of, even if perhaps other countries felt a little diminished by it. count russia in that category. but in just 134 days, donald trump has managed to dismantle america's position of global leadership.
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today no one who isn't already a trump sycophant refers to donald trump or to the united states under his relationship as the lead over the free world. as if to underscore that point, donald trump this week abdicated america's leadership on the definitive issue facing the planet, mankind's fight to slow down the effects of climate change. >> as of today, the united states will cease all implementation of the nonbinding paris accord. we don't want other leaders and other countries laughing at us any more. i was elected to represent the citizens of pittsburgh, not paris. >> former secretary of state john kerry sums it up this way in an interview with msnbc's andrea mitchell. >> well, my immediate reaction is that it's an extraordinary abdication of american leadership. it's a shameful moment for the
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united states to have unilaterally have walked away from an agreement which did not have one other country requiring us to do something. it was a voluntary program. we designed the program. the president was not truthful with the american people today, and the president who talked about putting america first has now put america last. >> now the world's new titular leader will have to be china or come from the european union. think of germany and france. in fact, here is the french president emmanuel macron making his case for the title. >> tonight i wish to tell the united states france believes in you. the world believes in you. i know that you are a great nation. we all share the same responsibility. make our planet great again. >> so why would donald trump toss out america's position of
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global leadership by pulling the united states out of the paris agreement? something that by the way won't even kick in until 2020? spoiler alert. it wasn't about pittsburgh. we'll tell you the real reason he did it, next. there's nothing traditional about my small business. so when it comes to technology, i need someone that understands my unique needs. my dell small business advisor has gotten to know our business so well, that it feels like he's a part of our team. with one phone call, he sets me up with tailored products and services.
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don't back down from oic. talk to your doctor about movantik. remember mo-van-tik. if you can't afford your medication, astrazeneca may be able to help. the rest of the world applauded when we signed the paris agreement. they went wild they were so happy. for the simple reason that it put our country, the united states of america, which we all love, at a very, very big economic disadvantage. they don't put america first. i do. and i always will. >> joining us now, michael grunwald, a senior writer for politico magazine, and back with us max boot. pointed out today on twitter that the paris agreement was entered into and entered into force on 11-4-2016. the earliest that trump could
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even exit it is 11-4-2020, the day after the 2020 election. so if this wasn't about really ending the agreement, which he can't do for four years, what was it about? >> well, it was about politics. it was about sort of extending a middle fingerer to the rest of the worlort of reinforcing his brand as a global renegade who won't let all those foreigners tell america what to do. and it was reaching out to his base and reminding them that he shares their resent. s of smarty pants scientists and fancy pants global elites and the tree-hugging squishes who look down on the real americans who dig coal and drill for oil and do real american kind of things that he likes to align himself with. >> max, you could hear in donald trump's voice and sort of see in his affect the rest of the world applauded when we signed the paris agreement. that applause bothers him. >> he's got real contempt for the rest of the world there was
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a very telling quote in "the washington post" from a senior administration official saying that the fact that this annoyed the europeans was an add bonus for him. so the fact that it alienates the rest of the world is actually a benefit from his standpoint because it shows that he is following this nationalist, populist philosophy and attacking globalism, which is not what is in america's true interest. because we are we have prospered because thank you so much american global system that we helped create in 19 will 45 and have underwritten ever since. and trump is destroying it. not just with the paris agreement, but with pulling out of the tpp, the transpacific partnership, by refusing to affirm article 5 of nato, by flirting with pulling out of nafta. he is destroying the underpinnings of american power and prosperity. and he doesn't realize it. he is too dense to realize what he is doing. >> and steve bannon loves that he is doing it. the first two things that max boot just mentioned benefit china, donald trump's supposed nemesis. he is actually helping china to assume global leadership.
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so that can't be a good thing. so why do you suppose that his followers, his base, his voters are so much for this? >> well, remember the campaign. it was really about anger and resentment. if you went to any of those rallies, it was about calling out the mexicans, calling out the chinese. this sort of lashing out at the world, at people who didn't look like his supporters. and this is -- this is more of that. it's about he is portraying himself as the kind of obama's photographic negative where, you know, obama hung out with his cosmopolitan elites. this is saying screw you to the world. >> sean spicer in the press briefing actually admitted that the white house does not have another plan. you have cities all over this country that are saying nope, we're going to go ahead and follow the paris accord rules. you have states that are entering compacts to follow them anyway. he can't stop them from doing that. they actually don't have a plan b.
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>> right. this has nothing to do with the merits. that's pretty obvious. because everything that he said about all the costs imposed by the paris peace accord, it's all bs. it has no relation to reality because it's a voluntary nonbinding agreement. he could have reduced -- he in fact is reducing the targets so that we could actually reduce our compliance while staying within the framework of the paris agreement. so it's not about the merits. it's about this symbolism of this big up yours to the rest of the world. >> and very quickly before we go, max, it is just con seat or is it just sort of that the horrible feeling inside of americans' gut of not having global leadership, or are there bigger consequences than our sort of sense of self-worth to no longer being the lead other leader of the world. >> joy, there are huge consequences, what this international system we ilt, this international order. we have been the biggest beneficiaries of it since 1945.
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we take for granted all the wealth we have accumulated, all the peace we have enjoyed. we don't understand how that is. if we pull back, state likes china, north korea, they move in. we learned that before in 1941. well learned it in 1917. we will learn it again at great cost in the future buzz of what donald trump is needlessly, recklessly and mindlessly doing right now to destroy the underpinnings of the american-led international order. >> in my lifetime, 99% of republicans agree with what max boot just said that is what is so insane. max boot and michael grunwald both have amazing pieces on this. you guys should google them and read them. thank you to both gentlemen. coming up, russia's problems are making it harder for the white house -- or the russia problem is making it harder including the president's plans to gunshot obamacare. from the first moment you met it was love at first touch and all you wanted to do was surround them in comfort and
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in the midst of the seemingly endless developments and leaks about jared kushner, the russia investigations and the paris accord, there was another big story that would
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have been making major headlines had we not been talking about all of that. this week the white house released details of 14 ethics waivers issued to at least 16 white house staff members. the waivers exempt them from ethics rules that ban them from communicating with former employers. they include waivers for reince priebus, chief strategist steve bannon, senior white house adviser kellyanne conway, and four former registered lobbyists. so much for draining the swamp. the waivers were finally made public after dispute between the white house and the office of government ethics. the oge wasn't too happy that the white house was issuing ethics waivers in secret and pushed the trump administration to make them public. well, now there are two more problems that the oge reportedly has with the waivers. one, 10 of the 14 are undated. and two, one undated waiver was issued retrotively to inauguration day. joining me n, erin gloria ryan and ana marie cox, senior political correspondent for mtv news. thank you very much. i'll start with you, erin. on these waivers. you have these waivers that are
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retroactive to january 20th. they exclude all executive branch employs. they could benefit bannon. it could help bannon skirt ethics compliance results comply for the citizens of responsibility and ethics in government. and literally lobbyists for industries who can now talk to those former industries. what could be wrong with that? >> well, you know, to be fair, every single administration issues ethics waivers when it comes to members of their circle in the executive branch, because people's work sometimes comes in conflict with their new jobs in the white house. >> sure. >> but this trump administration has issued more waivers in four months than the obama administration issued in eight years. and i think that should set off some alarm bells. it seems to me as though you often hear donald trump is playing chess, multidimensional chess. but really it seems like he is playing hungry, hungry hippos, just kind of grabbing anything that he can and making it so that people who are in positions to grab things can do the same. >> ana marie, "the new york times" interviewed the former oge director walter shaub and he
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said there is no such thing as a retroactive waiver. if you need a retroactive waiver, you have already violated a rule. your thoughts. >> right. i heard another, they interviewed -- or organization interviewed another former person who worked in the ethics office. they said actually, if what you snead a retroactive waiver, what you actual need is a pardon. you have already done something wrong there is name for retroactive waiver, and that's a pardon. that means you know you di something that violated the rules, if you're asking for it to be wiped out retroactively, right? >> yeah. >> so i wonder what it is they're literally covering something up, right? well, they're covering a lot of things up. but they're covering up something now. because some rules are violated, or they wouldn't have to issue these to be retroactive. and let's be very clear. go ahead. >> no, no, go ahead. >> i was going to say like the steve bannon one is so he can communicate with breitbart.
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so we have an official propaganda wing of the government like operating out of the white house. i mean, this is scary stuff. we can laugh about it and we can be incredulous about it. but there is an official government organ operating out of the white house. and it has a white house press pass too. that's just so strange and unsettling. i mean i'm glad we're talking about this. >> i was going to say, one thing -- one thing that is extremely frustrating about this is that we can't do anything. like there is no recourse. we can wag our fingers. well can say this is bad, this looks really bad. but, like, the people that it looks bad to don't matter to the trump administration. >> right. and just to be clear for those who are not clear on it, not only do we have reince priebus and kellyanne conway who both had former contact with the rnc and as ana marie mentioned, of course steve bannon and breitbart, you've got don mcgahn, who is the white house cons, used to work for jones day he can now talk to and communicate with. you have joshua pitcock, who was indiana's lobbyist in washington
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who can now be in the room with issues involving his former state are discussed. you have andrew ohlman who lobbied bankruptcies and securities issues. he can now talk with former clients, and he can be involved in the puerto rico financial crisis dealings which benefitted his former firm. you have people from the oil and gas industry that can now get involved in policy on that, and former tax and retirement pocy lobbyists for fidelity who can now talk about tax policy. it's actually they can still weigh in on policy that benefitted their former industries. we're going to talk more about this. is stay with us. up next, another obama success that the current president is targeting.
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with all the news about russia you might be wondering what's going on with the senate and the effort to repeal and replace obamacare? well, listen to exchange with north carolina republican senator richard burr who is on the senate's health committee. >> i think it's unlikely we will get a health care deal. >> house plan dead on arrival? >> dead on arrival. >> the president is not going to be happy about that.
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no but that's why we have shared branches of government. we do the legislating. and at the end of the day this is too important to get wrong. >> do you predict the ends of this year that from would be something coming out of the senate. >> i don't see a comprehensive health care plan this year. >> now for a different view of the senate's progress here's an exchange with texas republican john cornyn who is part of the group of 13 working on the senate bill. >> do you think we can get a repeal and replace of obamacare done by the end of 2017? >> absolutely. wel t it done by the ends of july at the latest. >> aaron goir, and anna marie cox, anna marie, who is right here? are they going to get it done? do we want them the get it done? >> we don't want them to get it done. also, i don't think they will. i think -- yeah, i mean i think were thez keeps tripping over his thing i can't each say on late night msnbc.
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he just the thing, he is just stepping on it all the time. the russia investigation and the other various scandals. that's one of the reasons why this senate is mad. i think one of the reasons why burr said what he said, i think senators are trying to telegraph to the president clean up your act or else we can't even do the stuff we thought we were going to be able to manipulate you into doing. we can even pass the old gop stuff -- >> when you say pence, i say get rid of the right to abortion. listen, gory, erin, there is progress on one front on the republican side, if you want to call it that. that is going after women's liberties. going after women's reproductive rights, and going after the birth control mandate. the white house is acting to roll back the birth control mandate for religious employers.
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going after planned parenthood. they are getting that part done. >> when you say progress, it's hand maid style progress. it's not actual progress. something happened this week that i think was disturbing to people who care about women's health. women and people who care about women. there was a draft of a proposed rule change that would change what kind of emplors are allowed to use religious ox objections to stop delivering contraceptives to their employees. they knew something was coming down the pipe but they didn't know how many women it could affect and how sweeping the change would be. this is bige than they thought it would be it. would allow any employer, allow any boss to stop covering contraception for a religious or moral reason. >> does this need to go through congress? >> through the health and human services committee. now it has to be approved by one more person, the omb.
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>> right. >> there is nothing that can happen besides like a lawsuit after the fact. >> anna marie then you look at the senators who are actually working on the health care bill. and if we put up a list of them, there is something they all have in common. there they are. a few things they have in common. there aren't any women making these decision. weird. that's so sfrang. in a way i'm grateful they are not going to be able to do this health care thing if burr is right. because actually one of the justifications for this rule change is that women already have plenty of access to birth care. and they cite medicare and title ten as ways that women have access to birth control. which as i know the wonks among us know those are actually targets of the trump administration. as you know, the trump administration changed the rules around funding of title ten organizations so if you provide abortions you will not get funding from the state.
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whatever. they don't women to have birth control. they are straightforward about it. they are straightforward that it s to do with wen's sex behavior not an objection to abortions. any cite increased sexual activity outside of marriage as being one reason you shouldn't necessary will he provide birth control to young women. >> it's only birth control you can object to. that's the only thing, not blood transfusion, not viagra, nothing else religion can have objection to, except birth control. >> not viagra sn. >> no. >> shut the front door. thank you ladies for being here. really appreciate you both. and that is tonight's last word. thank you very much. and the last word is next.
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oh, it is a dark time for this president, but perhaps he can draw inspiration from the great leader's example of partnering with russia to defeat germany. >> well, last night i asked senator elizabeth warren if she is going to run for president. well, she said no and insisted she is running for reelection to the senate in 2018. in a response to donald trump's withdrawal from the global climate change agreement explains why. >> this is how at least i see this. is that this is one more reason we must all be in this fight. this is one more reason we must all raise our voices. this is one more reason we've got to be effective, we've got
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to be focused, and we've got to make change in washington. that's -- boy, boy, if we learn that today, shame on us. >> and you can see more of my interview with senator elizabeth warren on my show, "a.m. joy" starting at 10:00 a.m. eastern. hello, i'm keir simmons in superb, a location of a tough and at times tough exchange between russia's president vladimir putin and nbc's megyn kelly. the allegations that russia hacked america's elections, president trump's relations with russia, all were discussed in detail. we'll show you the debate. but first, president putin sets out russia's position as he sees it on the stage two were the leaders of india, austria, and moldova. >> welcome, everyone. >


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