he did say under oath you told him to -- you said you hoped the flynn investigation -- >> i didn't say that. >> he lied about that. >> i didn't say that. i will tell you i didn't say that. >> did he ask you -- >> there would be nothing wrong if i did say it according to everybody and what i've read today. >> did he pledge an oath of loyalty? >> no, he did not. >> he said those things under oath. would you be willing to speak under oath to give your version? >> 100%.
>> good morning and welcome to "am joy." this week donald trump tried his very best to direct the nation's attention to infrastructure. it's infrastructure week. even the twitter president could not ignore the main event. fired fbi director james comey testifying on thursday about his nine one-on-one conversations with trump, particularly the one on february 14th in the oval office. >> kicking superior officer out of the oval office looking the fbi director in the eye saying i hope you'll let this go. >> a one-on-one dinner with the president, did that strike you as odd? >> so much so i was concerned there would be others. i was honestly concerned he might lie about the nature of our meeting so i found it important to document. the administration then chose to defame me and more importantly the fbi. those were lies plain and
simple. >> plaply and simply the former fbi director ge of an account of the president saying let the investigation go, part of the way to change the way the russian investigation was being conducted. also he stated multiple times, twice explicitly that the president has the propensity to lie. that illuminating hearing followed less forthright testimony from national intelligence director dan coats and nsa director director michael rogers. those intelligence chiefs asked under oath about reports are trump tried to get them to intervene in the russian investigation, too. did they answer? not so much, because of their feelings. >> what's the basis for your refusal to answer the questions today? >> the basis what i previously explained, i don't believe it's appropriate for me to. >> why are you not answering
these questions? is there an invokation of the president of the united states of executive privilege. >> not that i'm aware of. >> why are you not answering the questions. >> because i feel it isn't appropriate. >> what you feel isn't relevant, admiral. what you feel, why aren't you answering the questions. >> we still don't have an answer to the questions. perhaps sometime soon those men will put their feelings aside and answer. there's one that could answer he said, she said battle between comey. >> you're going to be very disappointed when you hear the answer. don't worry. >> he said tapes of the conversation. >> didn't say there were. >> if there are no tapes, wouldn't you say there are no tapes. >> i can't comment on tapes. >> lordy, i hope there are tapes. >> we may find out sometime soon if there are tapes. the leaders of the house inlligen cmittee have asked the white house to produce
any tapes that may exist by june 23rd. joining me joan walsh, david corn of mother jones and chiron skinner, former member of trump's national security council transition team. i'm going to start with you. the question of whether or not there were tapes -- i say an issue. i was dubious there were tapes, seemed like hyperbole from trump. let's start out donald trump prepared may 12th -- let's go back, there we go, cut two. james comey better hope there are no tapes of our conversations before he starts leaking to the press. notice he puts tapes in quotation marks. now let's go to -- sorry for that to my producers. that would be hyperbole, but these two articles, trump has a business of taping people in his businesses. he has a history of taping people he has meetings with,
associates, that actually in his history. >> right. >> then there's this intriguing thing my brilliant producers from "am joy" pulled because i had this memory of it and i've had conversations off the record with sort of people in and around the administration about it. remember when ryan and omarosa had this conversation at the white house. >> yes. >> back then omarosa claimed a white house media employee taped their interaction, called it nixonian because she was unaware of the recording. this was nixonian, they were taped. they claimed thereere tapes of the teraction. do you think the preponderance of the evidence suggests they might tape stuff in the white house, donald trump does have tapes. >> they do tape but i have come to believe they have no tapes. i think what he said was crazy,
you'll be disappointed in the answer. if there were tapes, i can't imagine we'd be disappointed, but maybe he's lying about that, too. we have no way of nothing. i think it's great the intelligence committee is trying to get to the bottom of this. he should be forced to reveal them. cory lewandowski is saying, oh, he didn't say that. they are being very dodgy about it. something is odd. i think whether there are tapes or not, he's not going to want to reveal them because i believe james comey. i believe his account of what happened at that meeting he wrote down immediately. if there were tapes they would be damaging to the president. if not, we would have heard them already. >> that's the question, as someone covering this russia-gate thing for a long time, have you a president who has a propensity to lie, to put it kindly, who has a history of seining things that turn out not to be true. have you jim comey, foremaner fbi director who took copious notes immediately after. we know law enforcement notes are often admissible in court. he took them contemporaneously
at the time. he informed half a dozen people about his interactions with trump. even though he may not have tapes on his side. he has a lot of information. your new piece in mother jones is titled james comey's big message is donald trump can't be trusted. you agree, obviously, with the narrative trump has a credibility problem. if there were tapes that exonerated donald trump, why wouldn't he release them. if there were tapes damning to donald trump, why would he want to leave it murky they exist. >> figuring out why he says what he says at any point in time is a bum's game. it's really hard to ascertain what he's suggesting, particularly in this regard. if there are tapes, that's a presidential record. those tapes can't be destroyed. they have to be handed over to archive. there's a law that governs handling of tapes since the nixon days. so he should be telling the
archive, the archive should be asking if there are tapes. there's absolutely no reason you can come up with why he wouldn't say -- every time donald trump says, you know, i'll get back to this. i'll tell you. in two weeks i'll have new information about the hacking, he said in january, that will change everything. he didn't. he doesn't. he says this stuff all the time. always two weeks. in two weeks i'm going to do this, bill is going to be written, whatever. he's playing a game, a tease. it's what you do in cable news, you know that, joy, reality tv, keep them interested, tease, tease, tease. so i think the white house press corps, they have asked about this. they should demand to know whether there are tapes or not, they should walk out of the room if they don't get an answer. >> i have to go to my friend on this, you have interviewed roger stone, longtime crony of trump, that school of politics.
just knowing trump rolls with roger stone type person and having followed this story, do you, if you had to gu think donald trump is taping his interactions with people at the white house. >> i think the nixon analogy is very appropriate. if we lo at what was director comey's main takeaway here from this historic testimony, he basically drew a line in the sand where he said, america, you now must choose. you're either on the side of your fellow countrymen as patriots or you're on the side of team putin. why is that? his unimpeachable testimony made it clear russian penetration of our election process happened. unimpeachable, no question. why is that important, joy? in the same building, going back to the nixon metaphor, john dean first indicated the watergate cover-up was a cancer on the presidency. james comey testimony where he calls president trump a liar made it clear, donald trump's
presidency is a cancer on this nation. perhaps the only hope from that cancer spreading, the nation's oncologist special counsel robert mueller. >> i'm going to go to you on this. the next step, you now have the columbia university professor, who james comey gave his contemporaneous notes to, asked to forward them onto "the new york times," he wanted them to be a new york prosecutor, now been in contact with the senate judiciary about those memos. we also now have senate judiciary committee deciding whether or not they are going to call -- subpoena jim comey to come in and testify again. this isn't ending. it's actually going to escalate. why in your view, with all of that, the fact that james comey is a very credible witness, he's a cop, basically, he's a federal law enforcement officer. they are always credible witnesses especially to a grand jury, why would donald trump keep provoking jim comey and obfuscate whether or not he
taped him nf joy, first let me say thank you for having me on the program. i think you know i have a point of view a bit different from your other panelists. i hope the conversation can speak to some of the larger issues, including the question that you just mentioned. i think the structure of american politics is at issue here. the fact that we're so politically divided. only a year or so ago, programs like yours were against the intel community in the wake of snowden leaks. privacy was being invade. >> you may not watch me on tv but i have never been against the intel community. you've never heard -- i don't know what you mean by programs like me. if you know anything about me, you know that is the opposite of true. i'm the least fan girlish toward edward snowden and have been so vocally since i was a correspondent. will you answer my question
about why trump would provoke jim comey and bob mueller by dangling the possibility and just not answering the question if he taped him. >> i'm trying to get that that. i and on msnbc in the wake of -- >> i can't answer for msnbc and snowden leaks but i need you to answer my question. we don't have all the time in the world. >> yes, i understand, joy. what i'm trying to say is i think that comey himself made -- became less of a credible witness when he basically said that the president this not transcribed to obstruct the russia probe. in that way there was an exculpatory moment for president trump there. but for the former fbi director to admit that he had leaked i think upd mines his credibility fundamentally. >> that makes comey less credible that he said donald trump didn't try to obstruct the
entire russia investigation? isn't that what republicans wanted to hear? >> i think on both sides there are problems, but the leaking of a memo by a top cop, as you put it, which is absolutely right, is so troubling for his own credibility. >> it's miss hemo, he wrote it, and it's not classified. >> to leak a memo, that's actually an issue that's in dispute. >> no, it's not. >> it was about oval office meeting where they were talking about highly sensitive material. >> which donald trump did not claim executive privilege. if he believed those were he could claim executive privilege. >> that's not how executive privilege works. you don't walk in and the president says this is now -- >> he could have claimed before he testified. if he believed his communication with james comey were privileged he could have claimed privilege to stop him from testifying before congress. the fact he didn't do that and
waved it. i want to get maria in. we now have kiron, i commend her for coming on and debating this, claiming he's leaked contemporaneously to a friend but also exonerates the president. how could he do both? >> he quote, unquote, provided those memos as a private citizen. he was no longer a public servant, no longer head of the fbi director and there is a difference between the two. when you want to make sure you are very clear. when you did that he was a private citizen and the president had not invoked presidential privilege he was able to do so completely and openly as a private zip and a concerned citizen. i also think that everybody wants to have it both ways. there was a long time when the democrats were really upset at comey because of what he did when it came to providing information and the open investigation with hillary clinton. now because he's now
investigating the republicans he's not doing his job and being partisan. in fact, he's doing what he's supposed to be doing. he's a law enforcement official above and beyond. he's nonpartisan. there's a reason why on purpose the fbi director straddles administrations for up to 10 years so he can be above partisanship and be above politics. and more importantly be for country. i think that was the strongest testament this past week when we saw these senators drilling comey. because when you saw senator burr, saw senator warren come together saying we are putting our country above politics, it's a clear testimony of the institutions working and checks and balances working. >> absolutely. i think you made an excellent point maria-teresa, if there's anything that comey gives as good as he gets to either side he was heroic in rushing to john ashcroft bedside to stop the
wiles tapping, work around the ministration tried to do when ashcroft was ailing. he was dead wrong in a sense tipping the election making the statements he did about hillary clinton. this is not a guy who appears to be in any way a partisan on either side, makes him more partisan. coming up anti-must him protesters are filling the streets in several american cities. congressman keith ellison will be right here to respond. that's next. before we hit the beach, i've gotta hit the loo. we can't stay here! why? terrible toilet paper! i'll never get clean! way ahead of you, big daddy. aww. (avo) charmin ultra strong. it's washcloth-like texture helps clean better. it's four times stronger and you can use less. beautiful view. thanks to charmin. and you, honeybear. awwwww. (avo) we all go. why not enjoy the go with charmin?
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southern poverty law center classified as largest grassroots group in america. the group's founder is one of the nation's most prolific anti-muslim activist and recently found her way into the trump bhous after requesting a meeting. these rallies mark an end to tumultuous week that included blockbuster comey hearing and republicans defending donald trump's incompetence. >> the president is new at this. he's new to government. sow probably wasn't steeped in the long-running protocols that establish the relationships between doj, fbi and white houses. he's just new to this. >> he's just a baby. joining me now, the deputy chair of the dnc congressman keith ellison. congressman, i'm going to come back to the speaker of the house essentially wok rocking a 70 yearly businessman like an infant. let's start with sharia law.
you're of the muslim faith. why are muslims proliferating. >> one city, county, unincorporated municipal area that passed sharia law. sharia law is not a written code, it actually changes from time to time, place to place, and it's to scare americans. when the president says he's going to ban muslims. when he says muslims don't like america. when he says muslims in new jersey were celebrating 9/11, this is create a culture of hate. that's what he seeks, also latin american. >> they think muslim and don't know. >> absolutely. there's actually been a spike in anti-semitism as well. what we're seeing is intolerance
take over and the president is the chief cheerleader of it all. it's really scary. >> you make a good point. the sort of fear of muslims is really equipped by fear created in muslim communities. there's actual statistics, may 9th report from the council on american islamic relations 2014 to 2016 anti-muslim bias incidents jumped 65% in the two-year period. found hate crimes targeting muslims climbed 584%. >> think about what happened in portland a few days ago. this guy is attacking muslim women, a woman i hijab. then when some bystanders say, hey, man, that's not cool. he kills 2011 them and injuries one severely. this kind of thing is green lighted by the president's rhetoric. we've got to stand up. i guarantee one thing, joy, as these anti-muslim rallies are happening, there will are
multi-interfaith rallies that emerges as well. americans are not going back to the bad old days when you couldn't be catholic, japanese, black, couldn't be all those things. we simply aren't going back there. we know what that is. we're going to continue to assert our right to be human and on this planet. >> i want to read a statement from acts for america organizing this, sharia law, nation built on freedom of religion, must protect, respect, and honor. however, many aspects of sharia law run contrary to basic rights. as you point out no one is trying to enact sharia law. does it disturb you that someone who has this fantasy of muslim takeover of the united states was invited to the white house? >> it's like playing birth of a nation in the white house as president wilson did. birth of a nation, that movie inspired a lot of hate and resouthernence of the ku klux klan. these things do matter.
ee dpichb a stamp of approvalhe, gorka -- >> taxpayers. >> these are people who endorsed extreme ideas, steve bannon the poster child for it, yet we don't see anything from the president saying we should -- i mean, look, george bush after 9/11 went to a mosque and said if you attack our muslim neighbors, the law is going to come down on you. i mean, you know, it's rare a democrat says good things about george bush but he deserves that credit. he understood as chief executive of the country and leader of the country, he has to set a moral tone. this president is doing the exact opposite. but i believe in americans ability to come forward and say, no, we're not going back this. >> in the short time left, while these marches are happening, while we're watching what's happening with james comey your colleagues on the other side of
the aisle are rushing through health care repeal, affect 23 million americans losing their health care. they just pushed through dodd/frank repeal unleashing the banks to being casinos. this is happening behind the scenes. your republican colleagues believing comeygate or russia-gate gives them the right to do it behind their back. are there going to be hearings? >> they have rushed all this stuff through hearings. right now the senate is moving through a very nasty health care -- i'll have to put air quotes around it because they are not really health care bills. they are tax cuts for rich people with the wrapping paper of health care around them. but they are doing this quietly. they believe sill ennence is go in the senate. th are going to hold this nose. >> wt is the party doing about it? >> we are holding rallies all over the country. we are going into republican districts. we're not doing there. we're being invited there and we're talking about health care with our neighbors. we're talking about what does it
mean to go back to the bad old days when you can be excluded or have to pay an exorbitant price if you have a pre-existing condition, which about 133 million americans have. what does it mean when the price of your drugs spike, you don't have free cervical screens. all these things the affordable care act brought. let me tell you, joy, the numbers are big. people are coming out all over the place. and we are engaging and people are aware. >> the last question, a lot of rifts in the democratic party right now. >> yeah. >> between the bernie faction and hillary faction and the party and its own supporters, what is the party doing on that front? what are you doing about it? >> we have to embrace the fact black women have been the bedrock of the democratic party, the most reliable voters. also the people offering us the way forward as well. black women are the first to talk about the need for a fair wage. you look at these fight for 15 marches across the country you
see black women. a young woman working at kfc, she said, you know what, i've got to do better. she decided to become an organizer. black women are leading the way in all these important aspects of american life. hey, we're here to listen and we're here to follow so i thank them for stepping up and offering that leadership. >> congressman ellison, i want to put you on the spot on the air, if one of my producers wants to talk to you, will you do a post show we can put on the facebook page? >> we will do that. resistance summer moving across the country, 150 sites, all 50 states, i'll be more than happy to stick around. >> you guys can see more of keith ellison's comments on the facebook page. i just put him and my producer on the spot. sorry. up next, three words that could doom donald trump, obstruction of justice. stay with us.
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coming up, what exactly constitutes obstruction of justice. there is a difference between the criminal and political case that could be made? we have a great panel here to discuss that next. ♪ ♪ award winning interface. award winning design. award winning engine. the volvo xc90. the most awarded luxury suv of the century. visit your volvo dealer to take advantage of our midsommar sales event offer. visit your volvo dealer to take advantage p3 it's meat, cheese and nuts. i keep my protein interesting. oh yea, me too. i have cheese and uh these herbs. p3 snacks.
i don't think it's for me it say whether the conversation i had with the president was an effort to obstruct. i took it as a disturbing thing, very concerning, but that's a conclusion i'm sure special counsel will work towards to try to understand what the intention was there and whether that's an offense. one of the many headlines from comey's testimony that he expects special counsel robert mueller will look into whether trump committed an obstruction of justice, whether he committed obstruction of justice. trump yesterday denied he ever told comey to let the felilynn
matter go. and his friends have been full of spin. >> is it ever appropriate for a sitting president to clear everyone else out of a room and keep an acting fbi director in that room and ask him about an active investigation? >> you know why that's appropriate, because jim comey is one who originally asked for one-on-one private meeting with then president-elect trump. so the pattern was set by jim to say i want a private meeting with president-elect trump. >> be clear -- >> joining me democratic commentator and atrney, paul butler professor of law at georgetown law school. sima, criminal attorney and former prosecutor and u.s. deputy general that helped prosecute watergate. i'm going to phillip because he has the disadvantage of not being at the table. the question of whether or not donald trump attempted to obstruct the investigation into michael flynn. cory lewandowski who was the former campaign manager to donald trump attempted to des
putin one aspect of jim comey's story that he never initiated contact with the president. it was the president who initiated contact with him. this is cory lewandowski describing that first january 6th meeting. i'm sorry, this is jim comey -- i'm sorry, do we have the cory lewandows lewandowski? i'm sorry, i have it back cords. cory lewandowski said it was comey who initiated the contact, he wanted to speak with the president. this is now jim comey rebutting that. >> a really significant fact to me, so why did he kick everybody out of the oval office? why would you kick the attorney general, president, chief of staff out to talk to me if it was about something else. so that to me, as an investigat investigator, is a very significant fact. >> i'm discombobulated. that was comey testifying about february 14th meeting when everyone was asked to leave the room. this is rebuttal to cory
lewandowski saying who initiated contact with who. i was there with ielligence community leaders to brief him and his new national security team on the findings of an assessment concerning russian effort to interfere in the election. just on those two points, phillip, the fact that it was donald trump who initiated the meetings in which he asked for mercy, essentially, from mike flynn and the fact that he dismissed other people from the room when he had that conversation, do you think that constitutes any evidence of obstruction? >> i've said that i think the public record, irrespective of the january 6th meeting, which is entirely different dealing with alleged salacious dossier in which the director talked to the president independently, that's beside the point. i think the public record establishes that there's already sufficient evidence that all the elements of the various
obstruction of justice statutes are satisfied most importantly from the president's own mouth. the statutes prohibit endeavoring either corruptly or by threats to influence or to impede a federal criminal investigation. threats would be implication the director did not go along with the president's preference he might lose his job. corruptly is the president was trying to protect himself from the overhanging russian investigation. the president supplied that evidence of motive, of improper motive when he admitted that the cover story for firing comey was a sham. and as he said in the tweets and remarkably in the oval office to the russian foreign minister and ambassador, his real reason for firing comey was to relieve the pressure on him, the president, coming from the pending russia
investigation. i think that makes out all the necessary elements of an obstruction of justice, assuming that mr. mueller chooses to go in that direction. >> let's actually play that and go to the oval office. let's start with donald trump telling our own lester holt on may 11th why he fired the fbi director. >> regardless of recommendation, i was goingo fire comey, knowing there was no good time to do it. and in fact, when i decided to just do it, i said to myself, i said, you know, this russia thing with trump and russia is a made up story, it's an excuse. >> tamara, "the new york times" then has an article in which they describe the meeting trump has with sergey lavrov, russian foreign minister, i just fired fbi director, a real nutjob, i faced a lot of pressure because of russia. that's taken off. is he admitting he fired the fbi
director to take the pressure off russia-gate enough? >> we're talking about donald trump here. he's right on the line but he's not putting his foot over into the water. that's the problem we have with this man. he's consistently doing two things. he's rallying to his base. he's asking people to work for him, to be loyal. he's asking for his followers to be loyal. at the same time he's interfering in investigations but not to the point that it rises to any level of criminality. as somebody who has practiced criminal defense for 12 years, you have to have probable cause. he's almost there. that hearing with comey was essentially a probable cause hearing. if i were a judge, i would say, yes, this is enough. but on the other hand i think there is a lot more to come. the democrats, if we're going to make this a political argument, need to wait before they play their hands because they don't want to show their cards too quickly. >> paul butler on that point, this is senator lindsey graham
on "cbs this morning" arguing also. he's a jag in military, not vilian wy. he's arguing there is no obstction of justice case. here is his argument. >> unless mueller is a complete idiot, which he is not, he's included there's no obstruction of justice case. if he had concluded otherwise comey wouldn't be testifying. you wouldn't let your chief and only witness go through this process if you really believed he had a case to prosecute and mr. mueller is a good prosecutor. >> so you're a former prosecutor, paul butler. would you let your chief witness testify in front of congress if you were intending to make a case for obstruction. >> i've prosecuted people for obstruction of justice including fbi agents. director comey went into that meeting, tried to be folksy, lordy, lordy, but he had an agen agenda. he deliver the president of the united states on a platter with two words. he said he felt that trump ordered and directed him to stop the investigation.
he met with comey one-on-one nine times. now, president obama met with the director twice in three years. comey meets with him nine times in three months. that's inappropriate. he should have been fired. but when he said that he felt ordered and directed to fire -- to stop the investigation, in these nine meetings trump isn't asking him, oh, what's this about the russians taking over democracy and subverting the election, trump is saying stop this investigation against me and my boy mike flynn. if that's not obsuction of justice, ion't know what is. >> seema, i want to let you respond but i want you to listen to alan dershowitz making the opposite, saying even if he did the president can direct him to do it. >> the president has the authority to direct the head of the fbi to stop investigating anyone. according to comey, comey says it is clear under the constitution the president can
decide who should be prosecuted, who shouldn't be prosecuted, had should be investigated, who shouldn't be investigated. you can't obstruct justice by simply exercise your power under the constitution. you can't be obstructing justice by firing comey. he had the right to fire comey. >> who is right paul butler or alan dershowitz. >> alan dershowitz most respectfully. now, here is why. even if trump said these things, it is not a subjective standard on how comey felt if comey felt he was ordered or directed because he wasn't. trump is allowed to fire comey, point-bla point-blank. trump is also allowed to say, hey, i hope you let this go. he's allowed to say prosecute or not prosecute. the question, how do i reconcile what professor dershowitz says, the question is did trump have corrupt intent. and joy, we have no corroborating evidence of that right now. it's not like clinton with the blue dress.
there has to be more evidence at this point. >> professor dershowitz was actually my cripple law professor and here is why he was wrong. corrupt intent is ordering the vice president, the attorney general, jared kushner and reince priebus to leave the room. >> to have privacy. >> to have a private conversation that you know we're doing wrong will that's what we prosecutors call consciousness of guilt. as far as trump dn' know about washington ways, he's ignorant, can you imagine if president obama tried to say when republicans were coming for him, i didn't know. i don't know how d.c. worked. >> i agree with that. >> let me read verbatim article 1 of the impeachment of nixon. endeavoring to interfere with the conduct of the investigations of the department of justice. that is what donald trump -- >> we're out of time. no time left. phillip, last word. >> i was going to say, i think professor dershowitz is wrong,
because corrupt motive does, in fact, override or limit the president's power to direct investigations. >> later on we're going to have -- we're going to re-up this debate, some interesting thoughts on this. we'll have more. thank you. we're going to do it with more time next time. coming up in our next hour, ice cube checks bill maher and checks donald trump after the break.
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a absence of trump on twitter. sure enough at 6:00 a.m. the next day, calling comey a leaker. retweet if you think yes, joining me now is lawrence tribe himself. i want to start by letting you settle the dirt on this. you have been tweeting about this as well. this is a question about whether or not donald trump can fire anyone he wants and order any investigation stops he wants and it is constitutional and it cannot be obstruction. >> it is not a matter of opinion, joy, i like allen and i respect him, he was my colleague when he was an active professor and i still am. the supreme court settled that quite rightly in the united
states verses nixon and morrisonville. even though the president could decide as part of a general policy to pardon some people and not have them prosecuted. adam allen's view is completely wrong. the evidence is certainly enough to carry the investigation to get to the bottom of it and there are plenty of witnesses besides jaimes comey who could the to the fact that the president of the united states are flat out lying.
>> when it came to nixon, obstruction of justice abuse of power and con testimony of congress. i want to zero in on abuse of power. this is marc kasowitz, donald trump's lawyer and his response to james comey on thursday. >> mr. comey admitted that he leaked to friends of his proported memos of those privileged communications, although mr. comey testified that he only leaked the memos in response to a tweet. the public record reveals that the new york times was quoting from those memos the day before the reference tweet. we'll leave it to the appropriate authorities to determine whether these leaks should be investigated along with all the others that are being investigated. >> marc kasowitz is factually wrong of the time line of the
story. the third thing is leaving it to the attorney authority, they're not leaving it to the authorities. they are asking for the sin vision. marc kasowitz will file a complaint to the doj's inspector general and the senate judiciary committee after comey testified uray that hellowed a friend the memo. >> these are comey's own recollections. he was a private citizen when he decided to share those. there is nothing wrong with it. it does not violately rules an
or laws. i am glad to hear that they are not going to investigate babusie power or obstruction of justice. obstruction of justice is a form of abuse on fire. they'll call the witness on wednesday, the guys that we have reasons to believe the president asked to laean on comey to let flynn go. i mean it is really -- serious crisis for this policy. whether or not there were criminal of obstruction of justice. is there a difference of criminal obstruction or the kind that gets you itmpeached. >> this is criminal because it was done in a threatening manner and a high crime.
it is a crime against the republic. >> it is therefore, both. >> all right, professor lawrence tribe. always love talking to you, thank you very much. >> love talking to you. >> the crime and the cover up. more after the break. oscar mayer deli fresh ham has no added nitrates, nitrites or artificial preservatives. now it's good for us all. like those who like... sweet. those who prefer heat. (blows a breath of air) and those who just love meat. for those in school. out of school. and old school. those who like their sandwich with pop. and those who like it with soda. for the star of the scene. cut! and the guys behind it. all the taste you want, nothing you don't. oscar mayer deli fresh. sweet! of being there for my son's winning shot. that was it for me. that's why i'm quitting with nicorette. only nicorette mini has a patented fast dissolving formula. it starts to relieve sudden cravings fast. every great why needs a great how. every great why
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to tell them when and where to water.le network so that farmers like ray can compete in big ways. china. oh ... he got there. that's the power of and. no collusion and no obstruction, yesterday shows no collusion or obstruction. >> on friday, donald trump gave that one response to two separate scandals played in his presidency. one of them has to be the cloud of suspicion shadowing trump, did he or any members of his campaign collude with russia of the election. that can be months or years to get an answer to that question. when it comes to building a case of possible impeachment, that
may monot matter as the one tha picked up steam since trump admitted of firing james comey because of the russia investigation. did the president use his power to impede the progress of that investigation. on thursday, comey moved closer to an answer. >> the president asked whether he urged you to shut down the the investigation on michael flynn, the president responded "no, no." is that an accurate statement? >> no. >> the president of the uned states with me alone, i took it as a directive. i was concerned that he may lie of the nature of my meeting so i thought it is important to document it. >> he was sure that robert mueller will expand the investigation to determine
whether trump have obstructed justice. when bill clinton was impeached, it was not of his lies of monica lewinsky. nixon's white house counsel john dean wrote in his book that there is no evidence that nixon ordered to commit the burglary. it led nixon to resign was the recording o f nixon recording of chief of staff. again, with bill clinton and now with donald trump. it is not the crime, it is the cover up.
joining me now is our security analyst, clint watts and malcolm naans and former donald trump's security team. >> will the biggest regret of donald trump be that he threaten and went after james comey on twitter and say there better not be tapes and he fired him >> he made public disclosure opened the door for comey to response. both on twitter and on the firing letter. >> you told me in numerous meetings. that opens the doors to comey talking about the meetings. everything is made a disaster for president trump. he comes out and make these statements and challenges and assert them. he thinks that these other people don't have agency to combat them. they call it deep state and it is called defending yourself of
these accusations. >> the ties of comey's world and mueller's world is pretty strong. this is a small circle of people working together from 2000s to the 20005 period. you can look at comey and mueller, and at the same time, mueller is now running the special counsel investigation, at the same time in the fbi, you have his former deputy's deputies. these are all people working the mueller five years ago. donald trump is really taking on a team that's very independent in and they're goi to work aggressively to do the right thing. >> lets talk about the denial that we are getting. >> this is jonathan carl, abc reporter has this exchange with donald trump whether or not he asked for the loyalty pledge. >> he did say under oath and you hope that had the flynn investigation to let go.
>> i didn't say that. >> so he lied about that. >> well, i did not say that. well, i will tell you i did not say that. >> did he ask you -- >> there would be nothing wrong that i did not say that according to everybody i read today, i did not say that. >> did he ask for a pledge of royalty. >> so he said those things under oath, would you be willing to speak under oath and give your version? >> 100%. >> i hardly know the man. i am not going to say i want you to pledge allegiance, who would do that? >> it is a credibility contest, only one of them could be telling the truth. >> i am not sure about that because the facts are coming out. i would like to await that moment before i make the determination you asked. i do think this is something kind of a shakespeare strategy
and donald trump outside american electoral politics and one that does not know the rules of the game. on the comey side, it is troubling to have a former top cop and intelligence officer who decided to leak information and i think it is just splitting hairs when you say well, he was a private citizen the day that he did it but it was privileged information and it is not clear that the notes that he took after the meetings with trump did not, in fact, include classified information himself. was he cherry picking what he wrote so that he only put in those memos what he thought and determine it was unclassified. this is a story where i think if we get political about it now and we blame one side or the
other or take a partisan view, we are going to miss the facts and the larger story that the structure of america politics is at issue here. >> we are so divided that this kind of thing will happen no matter who runs. if we are looking at the mueller investigation comprehensively, its got to get to the issue of the russia probe which takes us back to the hillary clinton e-mails. >> okay -- >> this is a larger story. it is not just trump verses comey. >> i want to go back to this question whether or not he essentially is alleging that comey could have leaked classified information. you have worked in the intelligence work and you have written a book which you have to get clearances for anything in your book so that classified information would not wne up in it. is it possible that james comey
releasing his own notes to the new york times -- >> what he released was his feelings and the words that were said at the time. there were no discussions going on of classified information. i am not sure if it is privileged since donald trump seems to be commenting on it day or night on twitter. i find it hard to say this whole thing boiling down to, you know, where james comey have managed to -- there is no law where you cannot tell people what you spoke about the president of the united states as long as it is unclassified. jaime made it clear. >> clint, you work for the fbi, as a former fbi, are you allowed to talk about your own impressions of the conversation that you had that are your notes
that you took. >> depends on the circumstances. anything that you write or even if you write down in the note pad, that goes in the actual documents which are then, you know allowed for defense attorneys to pull those or look at them or prosecutor. everything that an fbi agent does as long as it is not the classified realm can be pulled in the public domain. >> we need to remind the audience that he recounted all of those in each of the meetings he had andthey, the senate intelligence committee released those to the public. kyr kyron, if it is all counted of the exact thing on the note. privilege information? >> joy, absolutely not
. >> how? >> it is the right pathway for the intelligence committee to do their job. >> comey giving himself information to get to the new york times to his friend. whether it is confidential or classified or not, it is a problem for our system and that's the fundamental point here. it is not the say there are more difficulty on the trump side as well. this is just not good for american politics. >> okay, we wish it were not going on and we are not doeing the nation's business as a result. >> okay, you filibuster, you don't have unlimited time. >> i want to play -- >> that's not what i am attempting to do. sorry. >> well, you are filibustering. >> well, i don't see it that way. >> when comey was asked, it had to do with the dossier.
lets play what comey did when confronted with this information that could be in fact classified. lets listen to that. >> you read the dossier, what was your reaction given that it was 100% directed at the president elect? >> not a question i can answer in an open setting. >> iannot answer that in an open setting. >> do you believe donald trump colluded with russia. >> it is a question that i don't think i should answer in open setting. >> malcolm, you have these two pieces that are going on it at the same time, that was comey's non answers to the piece. what that answer tells you of the investigation of the russia
piece. >> as i like to tell everybody. this is called a black hole. that's sbintelligence that you know should be there and other intelligence indicates that it is there but you don't have that information. everything is pointing to it and is flowing into that black spot. every time comey said i don't think we can discuss this in an open setting or you know i need to discuss it in a closed setting. he was essentially saying that we have information, it is detailed and it is classified. it may or may not exonerate the person. he was very, very cautious about exposing any ongoing investigation into this. if i can make one quick point here, joy, you know the other day when donald trump said i am willing to swear under oath and come to discuss these matters, the first thing that popped to my head was the music of "mortal combat." i don't think he knows what he's up against.
these agencies, the fbi has one thing that, that's the power they have, thelity to charge you if you lie to them. donald trump does not have the capacity. he thinks he's dealing with some new york city lower level district attorney and not the entire jus ttice power of the united states. >> quickly, and can the fbi simultaneously and fairly investigate both russia gate and donald trump obstruction? >> the special counsel is going to take on both of that. the fbi is going to focus on that intelligence investigation. it is still happening now. that's the other part i hope people took away from this. russia meddling in the elections right now going on in europe. this is not going away. they can influence these senate and congressional elections.
>> thank you all, appreciate it. >> we'll have you all back. the highly rated lord, o' donald. stay with us. in mmouth. even well fitting dentures let in food particles just a few dabs of super poligrip free is clinically proven to seal out more food particles so you're more comfortable and confident whilyou eat. super poligrip free made even the kiwi an enjoyable experience try super poligrip free. ♪ we danced in a german dance group. i wore lederhosen.man. when i first got on ancestry i was really surprised that i wasn't finding all of these germans in my tree. i decided to have my dna tested through ancestry dna. the big surprise was we're not german at all. 52% of my dna comes from scotland and ireland.
statements, have you? >> no, i don't. >> my lawrence o' donald is here. >> he's hoping that you are hosting the show tomorrow morning if you can make it. [ laughter ] >> yeah. it is a big hope of his. >> exactly. >> lets answer jim risch's question. it is a television moment. he chose on the idea that no one ever prosecuted for "i hope" >> this is been in the dialogue of these kinds of scenes for many years. people know that -- they believe if they can change their language in this moment they can get away with it. the history of the case, no, you can. >> nice business you got there. the other sort of interesting thing that stood out to me in the james comey, this is what he
wrote and circulated before his big block buster day. >> i explained that we had briefed the leadership of congress on exactly which individuals we with r investigating and that we told those congressional leaders that we were not personally investigating president trump. it would create a duty to corrupt, should that change. >> exactly. as i said last night. the president is on the edge. he cannot learn because i can go onto that meeting, i really want him to say this and i hear him describe all the reasons why he should not and he says look, if i say you are not under
investigation now, if that changes, i must publicly say it has changed and you are under investigation. now, if you can think which apparently donald trump cannot that means you are better off than you are now. you may some day be under investigation. if you leave it where it is now. it won't be publicly announced when you become under investigation. even when you go under investigation, you may survive the whole thing in the en soou could have gotten into the whole thing just by shutting up. >> right. >> he could not learn in that moment, the very best thing for him is comey keep on doing the way he's doing it >> lawrence, donald trump claimed that he fired james comey for exercises his duty to correct against hillary clinton. he knew this is a guy who would go on tv and say oh now this person who says is under investigation is again. does he not remember he said
that? >> he's the same guy -- many months after the whole clinton's episodes as president of the united states we learned that james comey told us when he walked across the room in the white house of the famous video we have seen ten million times, the whisper in the ear was "i am looking forward to working with you." he's the same guy that told lester holt the most important presidential interview done in the modern era because that presidential interview done by lester holt created a special prosecutor. the president in the interview said i thought about russia when i decided it was time to fire comey. comey took that as reasons. come comey advanced that as reasons and it was not disputed. not one republican said to him in the room, how are you
interpreting the reason to be russia. no one knows or expressed about that. >> he reenforced that when he talks to a people,ergei lavr lavrov. >> right. >> i waited until he lie which is the first time he opens his mouth about president obama, that's when it came into inju jurisdiction of the program. that was not part of my 10:00 p.m. jurisdiction. given that set up, do you think donald trump was telling the truth when he told the press core that he's 100% willing to testify. >> i think the truth is zero percent. he won't agreeably do it. he's going to struggle with it
but for him the case law is solid of united states verses nixon if he's ordered to testify, he will have to turn over evidence. he does not know yet. he has testified, not under oath to howard stern during the nixon's years, his primary concern in life was how much sex he could have with how many women in manhattan of that period of his life. that's all of his public testimony that period of his life was his personal vietnam. that's his understanding of vietnam. >> lawrence, you came from a family of lawyers. >> you are the one, the black sheep in the family. >> you actually really have. donald trump does not seem to have an expert one. >> the worse i have ever seen in washington. >> if he had a better lawyer, is
any attorney could help donald trump. and all lawyers know it which is why they refused to represent him. we cannot represent a client like this because he canno cannot -- those lawyers knew what i said on tv. he cannot learn and so lawyers have to teach clients all the time because no one goes into the lawyer -- okay, you cannot do this or don't do this and the good client follow what the lawyers say. >> on the mclaughlin's scale, chances of this congress impeachment of trump. >> that's up to donald trump and what he does between now and then but i would say around five right now. >> even with the republicans. we have the most spine less speaker in the history of presidential investigations. every other speaker in front of the presidential
investigations -- than paul ryan has. including by the way newt gingrich of the pursuit of bill clinton, just include them all. so even these spine less responses, there were no real solid defenders of donald trump, i don't believe james comey and i, i do believe donald trump. that's not what you were hearing. you were hearing weak stuff. donald trump is capable of changing the universe this weekend. they're with him today, that does not mean they're with him noontime tomorrow. there is madness in the white house and they know it can erupt any moment and he's got plenty of time to do it. can i reach back to a previous hour of your show, i don't want to lose a minute. you expressed -- you had something to say abouts t the feelings of men when testifying in front of the senate when they
don't want to reveal their conversations. joy, i sense in that part of the show, you don't completely understand men's feelings. [ laughter ] >> no, when especially when it comes to not wanting to answer a question. >> yeah. >> now, and i would think anyone who has dated a man and married to a man understands what men become. when you ask them a question that they don't feel like answering, they become a puddle -- we cannot speak and there are no words, no words come into our heads when you ask us a question that we don't want to answer. [ laughter ] >> that's the feelings control everything about us. >> oh, you delicate flowers. >> those feelings.
>> he's just a baby. he does not know. [ laughter ] >> this is why you do not ever miss the show. the highly rated, the last word weeknights at 10:00 p.m. right here on nbc. >> i always thought you understood me. [ laughter ] >> lawrence, you just helped make -- you know what my feelings are? i am feeling really good, feeling great. thank you very much lawrence, always appreciate your help and your fans. coming up, why is little marco leading the chart in donald trump, feeling, nothing more than feeling. ♪
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you know any case for a person charged of obstruction of justice of what they said or thought or they hoped. >> with the president of the united states with me alone said i hoped this. >> you may have taken it as a direction but that's not what he said, he said "i hope." >> republican jim risch come to the president's defense. >> marco rubio's the president side kick. >> did you tell the white house's counsel that's not
appropriate, someone need to go tell the president he cannot do these things. >> why? >> i don't know, the circumstances were such that i was a bit stunned and did not have the presence of mind. >> at the table, jones walsh, mother jones and fernado, i want to go with you first. this is marco rubio after the hearing talking about donald trump's let it go moment. >> it boils down to this. is this the action of someone who's putting together a plan to impede an investigation or is this a non politician, unconventional figure that operates in ways that are different than previous presidents. >> marco rubio of his reactions was for a lot of his hometown
folks, he essentially was keeping for donald trump and he retweeted of the story, i defended to defend the president today. i didn't defend or attack anyone, i asked questions directly from comey's statement. he's referring to a piece of santiago. what do you make of this back and forth of marco rubio on whether or not he's a defender of donald trump. >> like an eager little boy, he was singing with those ridiculous softball question which will end up with him receiving the second scoop of ice cream the next time donald trump invites him to dinner at the white house. having it both ways double speak. it is really joy evidence of what i call these trump, risch
republicans collaborators having tough talks only to be lied by -- on all of the key initiative issues of this trump administratio administration. exhibit a is senator john mccain who a lot of people have been called american patriot, also, he's been be lied on that 100% voting record. i see john mccain like many of these republicans that you put the party over the country and you think back to the disqualification of judgment when he chose palin in 2008. >> you did bring up john mccain so i have to play for the panel of the most bizarre moment of the comey's hearing. john mccain not on the committee was added along with senator
jack reid from different committees to be the final words, this is what john mccain did with his time. >> i am glad ucoyou concluded t part of the investigation. i think the american people had a whole a lot of questions out there and obviously, she was a candidate for president at the time so she was clearly involved in this whole situation where fake news as you just described it a big deal. >> the mccain questioning ramble, to be kind, he kept on trie trying to conflate, of the same investigation of the he mail se ver investigation. he does not know which was
which. he did issue a statement that i got the sense of twitter my line of questions going people's head, i should not stay up late watching the diamond back's game. what's going on there? >> he continued to try to explain what he was asking. director comey was kind with him. he did point out the relevant fact that he only came out, he came out and spoke about the clinton investigation being relatively close because they cle completed and this they did not completed it so donald trump asked to be exonerated and it did not make any sens sense -- they're at beginning stages. i did not follow it. >> the problem with these republicans trying so hard to fie find a way to indict hillary
clinton and mitigating him that it becomes a clumsy way of trying to defend them and another way that they tried to help donald trump out without saying they don't think he's being dishonest is trying to accuse democrats being -- >> yes or no, sir. >> he has a full independence authorized by regulations. >> the chair is going to exercise his right to allow the witnesses to answer the question and the committee is on notice to provide the witnesses the courtesy for questions to get answered. >> mr. chairman, respectfully. >> i am points out that this witness has joked -- >> she got the finger of doom
there. it is an interesting point that she's the only wom that have been interrupted in this way and only democrat. >> that whole line, she was saying will you put it in writing that you are not going to fire or let mueller doing his job. that was what she was asking and he said you have to trust my integrity. that's not enough in these investigations. the reason the republicans are doubling down and trying to protect donald trump is they did not switch. they are saying we need this man in office because we want to make sure we are rolling back dodd frank and we want to make sure we are meddling in healthcare so the american people do not have access in it. this is the bait switch. lets focus on the president right here but the real legislative work that's going to impact there likes to do it behind closed door. >> david corn, we know marco rubio and tom cotton had dinner
at the white house on tuesday night, two days before the hearing. it does seem like they're cutting this deal, we'll continue this president to do what he pleases and we'll defend him as long as what we get legislatively. >> you see paul ryan and mcconnell too, they clearly tie themselves to the mess, cutting taxes and cutting programs from the middle americans, they'll take the water and go down with trump. you get the sense that they're trying to keep him afloat and not piling o while ty g these tngs that marie teresa just mtioned the white house of republicans and the house past appeal of dodd frank. you saw tom cotton during questioning trying to serve donald trump, his master by pressing james comey to say. comey said, well, you know
that's not up to me, it is up to robert mueller now and that's where the investigation is going. i am not going to make any staples. in some ways, i know we are partisan and anyone on the panel often has strong feelings but it is sad to see the republicans totally in the tank for trump when the issue is about moscow meddling in our elections and the issue that comey raised whether we have a man in if white house who can be trusted. some republicans are upset about this and would act accordingly. >> thank you very much, appreciate you guys. >> coming up, ice cube keeps it real. you don't want to miss it.
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now, the guy who was here -- it's not his fault, i feel bad about him, the senator, it's all on me, but he said a weird thing. the comic mind goes to a weird place sometimes. >> yeah. >> but doesn't matter that it wasn't said in malice. it wasn't -- if it brought back pain to people. >> right. >> and that's why i apologized freely and reiterated tonight. >> last night on his show bill maher brought on dr. michael eric dyson to get a black friend assist on his mea culpa after this moment from last week
brought the wrath of black twitter down on maher's head. >> we would love to have you work in the fields with us. >> work in the fields? >> that's part of the -- [ laughter ]. >> senator. i'm a house [ bleep ]. >> on his show last night, maher was also joined by rapper ice cube who had been previously scheduled to promote the 25th anniversary release of his classic hip hop album "death certificate" he pulled no punches in explaining to maher why his n-word punch line was no joke. >> there's a lot of guys out there who cross the line because they are a little too familiar or they think they're too familiar or there's guys that, you know, might have a black girlfriend or two that made them cool aid every now and then and ey think they can cross the line. and they can't. >> and joining me now is msnbc contributor. i want to start in order. michael eric dyson is a friend
of our's both was on to talk to bill maher. let's play a little bit about him talking about the context of maher's remarks. >> in the age of trump, we think about the nefarious resurgence of racism under jeff sessions and under steve bannon. there's no question about that. so even if your intent is certainly not to cause any kind of pain or horror, you do know that the use of that word then triggered, i think, not only the unconscious but the way in which black people feel on their hunches now because of the resurgence of racism. >> what did you make of their conversation? >> well, their conversation was interesting because it was sort of like they were at two different parties. dyson is doing his classic intellectual thing and maher was at an entirely different level. i'm not saying he wasn't as smart as him, but they were having two entirely different conversations and mmaher kept
saying comic mind goes back, it's a bad joke. >> i understand the notion of comic privilege. when comics make jokes about rape or race. it doesn't fall under comic privilege. he wasn't on stage making a joke. i will allow the space that push our boundaries, right. i understand that. this was not that. this was sort of automatic association of like, well, i'm one of them, right? we're going to get to the ice cube bit. when ice cube starts talking about you've dated so many people. you've hung out with so many people. you think you're one of us. you think you're honorary, you have that pass. >> yeah. >> that's where you get into bad allied behavior, right? that's what i think this is really about. you think that you're down, so down that you can even use -- no. you still can't because there's still a tremendous amount of pain that is associated with being black. when you're white and you're like, i'm for justice, i'm for equality and i'm one of y'all. wait, wait, wait.
you have gone way too far now. >> bill maher, he's a great guy and good commentator on trump and we enjoy his show. he also went to another place about his own views on race based on where he grew up. let's take a listen to that. >> i grew up in new jersey in the '50s and '60s and race wasn't even an issue. it didn't exist. >> right. >> we were -- except my parents told me the right thing about it. >> right. >> i've tried to by the way portray the right thing about it, which you have said. >> is that just sort of the blinders of somebody who sees himself as an ally of black people? >> well, again, i've been on maher. i know maher. i like maher. there was a lot of defensiveness. he prefaced that i was in a bad situation but i became a right-minded person. i became a woke person. and like, i don't know. i mean, like now is not the moment where i'm going to give
you your star for being woke. you know, like just -- there's just -- it's hard to hear these people talk about like i have a past or i'm an honorary member. i'm jt -- there's no pass, right? you are not being a good ally when you act like i'm one of y'all, right? this is an overidentification, right? it's painful. it's fetishizing. it seems to sort of minimize and obje objectify. you are an extraordinary privileged straight white man, super rich. you are not one of us in any way. >> it's not as if the slaves in the house were really any better off. >> the house/field dichotomy needs to die. >> i want to play ice cube which i thought was probably the most powerful moment. take a listen. >> now, i know you heard it's in the lexicon, everybody talking.
but that's our word now. that's our word now. you can't have it back. when i hear my homeys say it, it don't feel like venom. when i hear a white person say it, it feel like that knife stabbing me, even if they don't mean it. >> i mean, he's absolutely right. in this era we understand that words have different meanings when they come out of different bodies and different experiences. the only quibble i would have with cube there, you can't have it back. you see what happened to lebron james' house just a minute ago. they have it, too. they can use it as that tool that they want when ever they want. >> right. thank you very much. i really wanted to hear from you of all people. thank you for making time for coming down. i want to end the show on a happy note. today is my sister's judo carol's birthday. there she is. and she's gorgeous. i love my sister. actress extraordinary. more happy news, last night our wonderful team member,roducer natalie got engaged to her fantastic fiance joe.
congratulations to the happy couple. they're so adorable. happy birthday june buggy. love you. that is our show for today. be sure to join us tomorrow at 10:00 a.m. eastern for more "a.m. joy." in the meantime, keep it right here for more msnbc. the classes, the friends, the independence. and since we planned for it, that student debt is the one experience, i'm glad she'll miss when you have the right financial advisor, life can be brilliant. ameriprise "how to win at business." step one: point decisively with the arm of your glasses. abracadabra. the stage is yours. step two: choose la quinta. the only hotel where you can redeem loyalty points for a free night-instantly and win at business.
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brtry new flonase sensimists. allergy relief instead of allergy pills. it delivers a gentle mist experience to help block six key inflammatory substances. most allergy pills only block one. new flonase sensimist changes everything. hi, everybody, great to have you with me. i'm thomas roberts here at new york. high noon in the east, 9:00 a.m. out west and this is what we're watching for you. new reaction today in the battle between president trump and former fbi director james comey. as more information is coming to light after comey's testimony this week and then the president's remarks yesterday. with bothuggesting the other side did not tl thetruth. and it could come down to the so-called tapes that the president tweeted about nearly a month ago. but the president remained coy on the subject despite a flood of questions from reporters. >> do tapes exist of your conversations with him? >> well, i'll tell you about that maybe