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tv   AM Joy  MSNBC  June 11, 2017 7:00am-9:01am PDT

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you're going to be hanging out in here. so if you need anything, text me. do you play? ♪ ♪ use the chase mobile app to send money in just a tap, to friends at more banks then ever before. you got next? chase. helping you master what's now and what's next. in your statement, you said that you and the fbi leadership team decided not to discuss the president's actions with attorney general sessions, even
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though he had not recused himself. what was it about the attorney general's own interactions with the russians or his behavior with regard to the investigation that would have led the entire leadership of the fbi to make this decision? >> our judgment, as i recall, was that he was very close to and inevitably going to recuse himself for a variety of reasons. we also were aware of facts that i can't discuss in an open setting that would make his continued engagement in a russia related investigation problematic. >> good morning and welcome to a.m. joy. that exchange between ron widen and jim comey didn't seem like the most significant thing to come out of comey's damning testimony about the events that led to his firing, but the announcement on saturday that jeff sessions will testify before the senate intelligence committee this week puts that moment in a new light.
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even more so given reports that in the closed door hearing after comey's public testimony, the former fbi director confirmed a possible third meeting between serg guy kislyak and senator sessions in april of 2016. sessions recused himself from the fbi's investigation into the 2016 election after it emerged that he met kislyak twice this year despite testifying he had not had any contact with russian officials. sessions recual caused a lot of tension between him and his job. donald tru this comes after a dramatic week in washington topped off my trump's own public offer to testify under oath to tell his version of events surrounding comey's firing. with the attorney general in the spotlight the biggest questions now are what will sessions say and will donald trump standby one of his earliest political
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allies. joining me now is the democratic congressman from california. let's start with the question of whether or not you expect sessions' testimony to be public, or do you think it is definitely going to happen at all? >> i urge sessions testimony to be public. he canceled public hearings before the senate, house and appropriations committees. he is now going to testify in a committee that is scheduled to be closed. i urge it will be open. >> this morning dine feinstein was on cnn. this was her comments about whether or not she expects that testimony to happen. there is an interesting wrinkle in it because she's questioning which side has jurisdiction. >> he is going to testify on tuesday before the intelligence committee. is that going to happen? and is that going to be public? >> don't know whether it will happen. don't know whether it's going to be public and i challenge the
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jurisdiction to some extent. i am on both committees, as you know. >> the judiciary and intelligence. >> yes. i believe the judiciary committee has the oversight responsibility for the justice department. >> so congressman, if there is now a question about which committee actually has jurisdiction over sessions, oversight is provided by the judiciary committee, do you think the delay caused by those questions could mean we won't hear from jeff sessions? >> it is possible. i think the most important point is not which committee he testifies in, but it's open so the american people can see what he's saying. let me take a step back. i don't know why he is still attorney general. he lied before congress in order to get confirmed. that's a perjury charge. he also lied on his security clearance forms about his russian meetings. those are false official statements. he should have resigned months ago. >> are you calling for sessions to resign? >> absolutely. i have been calling for him to
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resign for months. harris has been calling for him to resign. leader pelosi has been calling for him to resign. he needs to step down. >> let's move on to donald trump. he said boldly in his press conference on thursday that he would 100% be willing to testify himself under oath about jim comey. do you think that he should be subpoenaed and called to testify before congress? >> i do. so this morning president trump tweeted that james comey was cowardly. i thought james comey showed a lot of courage in testifying under oath before congress in an open hearing. i urge the president to show that same courage and testify under oath before congress in an open hearing. >> we're going to hopefully try to get that tweet up later because, yes, donald trump was up early this morning and tweeting about jim comey and continuing to talk about comey. do you feel that donald trump is actually building the case against himself? there is that tweet right there. i believe james comey leaks will be far more prevalent than
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anyone ever thought possible. and then he puts in totally illegal question mark, very cowardly. that's the tweet you were just referring to. sir, in your view, is that obstruction of justice because the question has been are the targeting of comey on twitter, is that obstruction or maybe tampering with a witness. >> if president trump was trying to get james comey to stop talks, yes, that could be obstruction of justice. these are not leaks. a private citizen can disclose unclassified conversations today, yesterday, tomorrow. james comey can write an entire book about unclassified conversation he had with the president. these are not leaks. >> thank you very much, congressman. appreciate your time. >> thank you. let's bring in my panel. professor of law at georgetown law school, washington post columnist, opinion writer at the washington post and republican
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strategist. you heard the congressman say jeff sessions lied to get confirmed and he also did not disclose on the forms that he met with the russians and we now know and this has come from my producers, there were at least three meetings in april, july and september of 2016. this third one has been acknowledged by jeff sessions. has jeff sessions committed perjury or a crime in terms of not disclosing his meetings? >> yes, he had. the irony is sessions is the most conservative pro-law enforcement attorney general in decades. he wants to bring back the failed war on drugs. during the campaign he says america needs to put all of his bad guys in jail. but that apparently does not apply to his own conduct. look, i filled out security clearance forms to get a top secret clearance. there is no way that you forget
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that you have meetings with the russians and then to be asked about it in testimony and now to say there were two and now he remembers a third, you wonder if there is a fourth or fifth. not only do we think about whether his conduct meets the rules about the law that you have to fully disclose, you can't intentionally withhold when you fill out your security clearance form. we have to ask whether this man is fit to be attorney general. does he invest inspect office the confidence, the integrity in the administration of justice that the nation's highest law enforcement officer needs? >> and i'll throw that question to you because you have an attorney general that's had to recuse on arguably the most important investigation in recent and modern history, if not in the last 20, 30 years of modern history whether or not the russians interfered in our elections. he had to recuse from that. is there any way that jeff sessions can continue as attorney general and how can republicans justify it?
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>> i certainly think he will survive being attorney general. with sessions recusing himself, he was heavily involved in the campaign. i understand that. i'm not an attorney. i'm a political consultant. so at the end of the day, i think what you are going to find with jeff sessions is he's going to give you the answers. he is one of the most pro law enforcement attorney generals we've seen in modern history. i think he's an honest man. i would comment to you like we have on other shows, these russian diplomats must be the hardest working people in washington. they seem to have met everybody. i think that's what we'll hear when we get the testimony, is the vein of what kind of meeting. was it a hello, how are you? was it a cocktail party? i don't know. if it was a structured meeting, maybe jeff sessions will be in trouble but he was a united states senator first so i don't think it's his responsibility in these casual settings that i
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understand where they have met these people. so i will reserve judgment but i don't think it's time for jeff sessions or the public to call for his head in resignation. >> it is his responsibility to disclose them if he's trying to become attorney general. but i want to make sure we also talk about donald trump himself because he's the potential star witness and as one column pointed out he could get greater ratings from jim comey. this question of whether or not he asked for a pledge of loyalty from jim comey, i want to play a couple of things first. let's start with donald trump's denial that -- well, we don't have audio of trump denying he talked about loyalty. but when he was at that press conference he said -- no, we do. this is cut three and this is him denying he asked jim comey for a pledge of loyalty. let's take a listen. >> and did he ask for a pledge of loyalty from you? >> no, he did not.
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>> he said those things under oath. would you be willing to speak under oath to give your version? >> 100%. i didn't say under oath. i hardly know the man. i'm not going to say i want you to pledge allegiance. who would do that? who would ask a man to pledge allegiance under oath. think of it. i hardly know the man. >> who would ask a man for a pledge of allegiance? it turns out it's donald trump. i want to play for you 1992 and this was a great find by a twitter citizen about donald trump in 1992 on the charlie rose show talking about his views on loyalty. take a listen. >> if given the opportunity, i will get even with some people that were disloyal to me. i had a group of people that were disloyalty. >> how do you define lis loyalty? >> they didn't come to my aid. >> did they turn their back on you? >> no, but they didn't do things that helped. >> what's fascinating is what he defines disloyalty as is not coming to his aid, not doing
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small things that would have helped. if you believe jim comey's extensive testimony proffer, donald trump was essentially asking him to do things that would help him out politically, that he was asking potentially mike rogers and dan coats to do things that would help out a little bit. does that suggest to you that donald trump is of the character that he would demand loyalty from an fbi character? >> absolutely. when somebody quotes somebody else, you listen and say does that sound the like they're quoting. the person jim comey quoted sounded like donald trump. we have a history here. no matter how angry democrats were, comey about clinton, no matter how angry republicans were at him during the bush years, everybody sees him comey as somebody who tells the truth. on the other side you have these denials from donald trump and we have a history there, too. it is a history of not telling
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the truth, of lying at times, but this promise to go under oath. he regularly says, oh, i will do that in the future or in three weeks i will produce this proof. and he never does it. that's why he should be challenged as soon as possible, given a venue say mr. president you want to go under oath to deny what comey said here's your chance. go to it and then let's see what he does. >> and jennifer, about trump's history in terms of his truthfulness, there is a washington post article that talked about a 200 p lawsuit he filed against a reporter. he sued that reporter. but raised questions about trump's net worth. the lawyers confronted the mogul and with the company's internal documents had been incorrect or invented and they caught him 30 times lying in those depositions. your thoughts, jennifer? >> he is a liar. i think that came through loud
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and clear from mr. comey. and as the other guests have said, it is not just comey who is going to confirm that. he is going to have had similar conversations asking, for example, to drop or let flynn go. trump has also denied that conversation. so i think this is probably the easiest man to impeach because he not only has a record but his lies are so frankly absurd. i do want to add something about jeff sessions, though, there are two things during this investigation that in and of themselves deserve this investigation. he unrecused himself. he came back into an investigation that he said he wouldn't touch when he fired or helped to fire jim comey. that was clearly covered by his recusal and totally inappropriate. and he failed to intervene as comey in essence asked him to do when he was asked don't leave me. don't leave me in a room with that man. so he failed in his fundamental
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duty to protect the fbi director to ensure that the president wasn't behaving in improper and perhaps illegal ways. i have never seen a record this short of time of an attorney general who has been this d derilect. >> if we stipyou late that jeff sessions did something wrong, maybe even illegal, who would enforce that? he's the attorney general. >> that's right. this could come under the per view of bob mueller. but right now the senate intelligence committee has the opportunity to ask some questions. he has to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. senator, don't give them the pass they gave the senate intelligence guys week when they said they didn't want to answer questions because they didn't feel it was appropriate. i can't imagine a witness saying i don't want to answer questions because of my feelings. give me a break. he would be held in contempt. if sessions doesn't answer the
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questions, he should also be held in contempt. >> really appreciate it. paul, we'll have you back. this is not ending any time soon. up next donald trump's dangerous dance with cutter. stay with us. ♪ this is a story about mail and packages. and it's also a story about people. people who rely on us every day to deliver their dreams they're handing us more than mail they're handing us their business and while we make more e-commerce deliveries to homes than anyone else in the country, we never forget... that your business is our business the united states postal service. priority: you ♪
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i need one number... not two. i'm always moving forward... because i can't afford to get stuck in the past. comcast business. built for business. the nation of qatar unfortunately has historically been a thunder of terrorism at a very high level. they have to end that funding. and it's extremist ideology in terms of funding. >> donald trump continueds to big foot his own administration friday when he took frame at qatar, evens a his secretary of state was working to resolve a
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crisis between qatar and other arab states in the persian gulf. an american ally is home to the largest u.s. base in the middle east, central to the u.s. air war against isis. since monday, saudi arabia joined four other nations to isolate cutter by breaking diplomatic and trade ties. tillerson offered to help broker a resolution to the impasse. but the very next day, trump not only expressed support for the blockade but also seemed to claim credit for pushing saudi arabia to take the action, tweeting during my recent trip to the middle east, i started -- i stated that there can be -- no longer be funding of radical ideology. leaders pointed to qatar. look! and no sooner could u.s. officials rush to try to clear up the trump damage than the donald did it again because an hour before trump's friday comments calling on qatar,
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tillerson had been calling for calm and thoughtful dialogue to resolve the crisis. joining me now our panel. and i am going to start with you because a lot of people are confused about what this dispute is about, particularly because back in may, on may 21st, donald trump was with the qatar amir, and this is what he said about our relationship with cutter. take a listen. >> we are friends. we have been friends for a long time. and our relationship is extremely good. we have some serious discussions going on and one of the things that we will discuss is the purchase of lots of military equipment. >> how did donald trump go from talking about selling beautiful military equipment to qatar to
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joining saudi arabia in calling them financers of terrorist. >> their perspective is they have a view of qatar promoting extremist ideology, that it is funding and financing various terrorist organizations and political movements and believes in political islam. all of these things are issues that donald trump is concerned about. donald trump is following suit. it has more to do i think with their ability to persuade him, than him being able to drive the discussion in the region. >> in a very short time. when you say media out luletout jazeera is there. >> and brian, the thing that's confusing then is was donald trump so influenced by one meeting and getting a medal and touching an orb in saudi arabia
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that he flipped his view of a country that isn't an american ally and just can you explain to us how his view just changed? is he that influenced by the saudis? >> well, he's a brank slate when it comes to foreign policy. you know, donald trump has not devoted a lot of brain cells to thinking about this divide. and that was on displace because he had a sword dance and a party and all of a sudden he's carrying the weight of the saudi arabia on the global stage. that's a problem. simply, if you're nice to the president of the united states of a personal level. that's a dangerous thing. these are crafted. on tuesday, the same day trump tweeted was the beginning of the attack on the heart of isis. those planes being involved in
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bombing isis forces in syria and iraq in particular are flying out of an air base. so he's undercutting the assault on terrorism in order to make a point about terrorism. >> the weird thing about it is that you now have donald trump's own state department seeming to take issue with his possession and trying to take the opposite position without him. rex tillerson calling for a resolution to the blockade. this is before donald trump tweeted again against cutter. take a listen. >> we call on qatar to be responsive to the concerns of its neighbors. qatar has a history of groups that have spanned political expressi expression. we call on the kingdom of saudi arabia, the united arab emirates and egypt to ease the blockade against qatar. >> you also have the active
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ambassador retweeting a praise for qatar. seems a good time to retweet this one. and then our own military. the military is praising this country that we are so dependant on for an air base. what is happening here? >> behind the scenes when you speak to officials. i have spoken to military officials and diplomats. they are on a different page than president trump is. what they say is two things, one, the current ruler of qatar over the last few years has really moved the country in, quote, 180 degree different direction. that is their assessment of how he is working on the direction of the problems of terrorism and what have you. the difference is there is a political vision that is different between saudi arabia and qatar. another thing that american diplomats have been flagging for me is you have about 15,000
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american citizens that live in qatar and it seems not a good decision to alienate the fact you have 25,000 americans in a land that could be potential to crisis. you are not walking a rope, so to speak. that is something the secretary of state is very mindful of. you have the secretary of defense who is heavily involved because of the operations we are hearing from brian. but these are important factors seemed to have been overlooked by the president when he came out and made his assessments of where qatar is, ignoring the fact there are american lives and american interests at stake with qatar. >> meanwhile, you have qatar trying to get to trump through twitter. and this extraordinary. you have the ambassador to the u.s. appealing to the trump administration in a series of tweets. our policy to combat extremism has always been to replace weapons with pens. we appeal to the u.s. administration to rely on their own sources and not the
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country's political agenda. brian, they are referring there to russia, which now we are learning may have stoked this rivalry by putting out fake news and it worked. >> yeah. and this is one of the problems with trump's foreign policy, is that he is stoking foreign policy crises. he's creating them. and this sun he is exacerbating quickly. and what we're seeing now is we're seeing two foreign policies coming out of the united states. one from the state department, the diplomats. and one on twitter that's from president trump. this is really dangerous because diplomatic miscommunication and contradictory foreign policy signaling can increase the likelihood of war and miscalculation. if you think back to the first world war, the meeting with sa dam hue sane is one of the reasons why he misinterpreted us and inside kuwait. the likelihood of war, conflict,
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et cetera is much greater, and that is something we should all be worried about. >> it is not lost on anyone that this all comes after $100 million donation to ivanka trump's charity in a big arms deal that jared negotiated the deal. people are noticing the relationships here. thank you both very much. and coming up, brexit backlash. stay with us. are allergies holding you back?
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the government i lead will put fairness and opportunity at
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the heart of everything we do so that we will fulfill the promise of brexit together and over the next five years, build a country in which no one and no community is left behind. >> british prime minister theresa may is fighting for her political life after her call for early elections backfired. may's conservative party lost its majority in parliament in thursday's election forcing her to try to form a minority government with an ultraconservative party in northern ireland that doesn't believe in climate change and opposes abortion and same sex marriage. it could have far-reaching consequences for brexit talks set to begin in the next few days and the pop you list movement that helped elevate may and her american pal donald trump. joining me now is my panel. i am going to come right to you. i want to start with this news
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that broke over the guardian this morning saying that donald trump's state visit to great britain had been put on told because the trump administration fears mass protest. do you know anything about that? theresa may's government is denying it this morning. >> i'm not surprised that the election result because make the relationship between the british government and president trump all that more difficult. the report suggests that president trump said a few weeks ago that he didn't want to come to britain unless he was met by cheering crowds and fireworks. he may be met by a lot of bomb p and ceremony. the british do that very well. officials pushing back saying it is not changing, but it is going to the real question about how much more difficult it makes the relationship between britain and the white house, how the relationship with president trump affected the vote here. let's be frank about it. britain is one of the u.s.'s closest allies and britain is
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going through a crisis, which doesn't make it any easier for the u.s. >> i don't think donald trump is quite welcome. i don't think they were inviting him to address parliament. one more question for you. the editor of a paper called the eve inning standard had this to say about theresa may's situation after that dissas trous trous election on thursday. >> theresa may is a dead woman walking. it is lounge she is going to remain on death row. >> what is your guess? >> i think we will know very shortly. in other words, we could get to the middle of next week and it all collapses for her. and if it doesn't, it will be delayed. >> and is it certain that theresa may is going to be able to form this minority government with that conservative northern ireland party? >> it is not certain. it is likely. but politics here is extremely complex at this stage. so trying to unpick it isn't
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easy. but just to take a step back. i think honestly what we have here is what you will recognize there, which is a deeply divided and polarized country, particularly over the question of brexit. and that's really what you have seen in the election and we are in a political stalemate because of that. in terms of brexit, britain, frankly, just got dealt in a high risk poker game, just got dealt a terrible hand. but worse than that, everyone else sitting around the table in europe can see the hand and britain isn't allowed to fold. so it is extremely, extremely tense politics here, and that will be the focus. that will consume this country now for the coming years, is how to deal with brexit. you have to wonder whether brexit even goes ahead at all. that's a long way down the line. and the most negative potential outcome is that britain isn't able to do a deal with the europeans, which ends with a
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trade crisis, which damages britain's economy, damages the european economy and damages the world economy. >> i want to go to one of the voices who was saying don't do it theresa may. can you explain to people what are the issues now stopping brexit? what are the hang-ups? >> brexit is still going ahead at this point. however, you have, one, theresa may's potential ineffectiveness in negotiating deals promptly. two, europe seeing she is in a weak position. the reason she called this election is because she wanted to shore up her authority as the brexit prime minister and that has been fundamentally rejected. the other thing is the party she wants to form an alliance with, she can't guarantee they're going to back everything that she says. so that also potentially puts them in a weak position. so it makes the entire thing of negotiating brexit very, very complicated. >> and the question of course
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for brexit are do you allow the free flow of people and/or the free flow of goods? according to the e.u. charter you can't get rid of both and britain can't have it both ways. they can't say we want the free movement of goods but not people. is it clear at all what theresa may's position is on those two things? >> she wants everything, all the benefits of the e.u. and wants to get rid of everything the british voters said they didn't want, like the free movement of people. it showed that the promises made by brexit supporters are empty. but if i could go to the couple of really big lessons i see for us, one was the enormous youth your honor-out. young people voted, did not vote in sufficient numbers in brexit. if they had, brexit wouldn't have passed. they took that lesson and turned out in a big way. that's a lesson for us here. the second is you will have a big debate on the left about what to draw from the fact that
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a very left wing leader of the labor party out performed expectations. i think that the moderate left needs to learn that a clear message of his sort is very mobilizing. but the left end of the left should not overread this. corbin vastly out did expectations, but he is still dozens of seats short. so the coalition needs to broaden. i think there needs to be a careful examination of this here on the right as well as on the left. >> yeah. very interesting. let's here from jeremy corbin. he was on bbc this morning talking about the fact that there could be another election. let's take a listen. >> it's quite possible and quite possible to be an election later this year or early next year. and that might be a good thing. we have a program. we have the support and we are
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ready to fight another election campaign. >> you have been a great predict tor. is this even a possibility there could be another? >> yes, for sure. >> okay. this is insane. and i'm going to come to you on this question. the new york sometimes had a piece that talked about populism itself being on the outs and maybe what we learned here is it is a spent force and perhaps it doesn't work anymore. is that part of the take-away we're getting from this election? >> well, in a very british way i guess i would say perhaps. the thing about jeremy corbin is that he is a maverick. he is the nonpolitician politician who, by the way, has been a politician for a long time. >> sounds familiar. >> he managed to portray himself as the guy that is honest, straightforward, isn't going to make the political choices, going to make the right choice. and i just think that both sides of the atlantic, we just see people desperate for anyone who doesn't look like a politician. >> yeah. i think you are going to get an
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amen because that seems to be the going concern. all right. thank you all. appreciate it. and coming up in our next hour, more on jeff sessions facing the music in front of the senate intelligence committee and republicans never-ending quest to destroy obamacare. more a.m. joy after the break. ♪ ♪ isaac hou has mastered gravity defying moves
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♪ ♪ (vo) you can pass down a subaru forester. (dad) she's all yours. (vo) but you get to keep the memories. love. it's what makes a subaru, a subaru. we're talking about a foreign government that using technical intrusion and lots of other methods tried to change the way we think, we vote, we act. that is a big deal. and people need to recognize it.
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it is not about republicans or democrats. they're coming after america and they will be back because we remain as difficult as we can be with each other, we remain that shining city on the hill and they don't like it. >> and they don't like it. >> giving us insight into trump's modus operandi at the white house, he also told us how this all began. russia interfered with our election. another issue in the equation, the failure of our intelligence community to identify and stop the interference. according to jamali, there are technical and operational gaps in our counter intelligence that we need to bridge in order to fight russian intelligence on future elections. we have a double agent, and also special agent jack rice. vida, i'm going to start with you. your article is called "can u.s.
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spies reinvent themselves after the russia hacks?" >> they did this specifically by trying to interfere with one donald j. trump and the election was interrupted. that campaign was successful. it impacted maybe not the physical, numerical value of the vote, it nonetheless impacted the way people vote, it undermined the confidence in our federal election system, and the russians were successful and the counter intelligence community failed to detect and neutralize this threat. >> i want to make sure people -- people should definitely read your article. you reference a june 15 times article where they talk about this army of well-paid trolls that are trained to wreak havoc
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around the internet, trolling our elections. the argument has been the russians tried to interfere with our election but failed because they didn't hack into voting machines. are you saying that premise is wrong? >> absolutely. well, the premise that the numerical vote was not changed is correct. however -- look, a layman can see going into the election that the release of wikileaks, the fake news that was put out there, clearly impacted how people actually vote in the voting booth. and to sort of pretend that didn't happen is completely disingenuous, and as long as we have that partisan rhetoric floating around here, we're not going to address the core issue which is, look, the russians spent a lot of money and time preparing for this mission. >> what could the intelligence community have done? >> i think the first thing is the goal of counter intelligence is to detect and neutralize foreign intelligence operations. the simple fact is going into november of last year, we didn't
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know the extent, we, the american public, didn't know the extent of this operation. i think part of it is whether they failed to convey this to the president, whether they failed to detect it is a big question. in terms of the physical things they could have done, look, we have a big problem with social media. a lot of people get their news from that. we see fake news. there is this big gap where law enforcement, you can't go after a fake news article and say it's broken the law. it's up to facebook and twitter in many cases to identify these things and police it themselves. look, they don't have an incentive to do so. sloengs th as long as they don't have an n incenti incentive, countries like russia are going to use it to create a gap across social media. that's a pretty big deal. >> one of the things you hear from trump offenders and sometimes on the left is whee t to interfere with elections around the world, so why are we up in arms that they're trying to do it, too?
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as long as they didn't hack the voting machines, what's the big deal? >> the real problem is it works. the ability to go in and manipulate an election is what intelligence organizations do. the idea that donald trump tried to make the argument that this never happens is laughable at best. we can look back at the interview that was done by vladimir putin where he denied it. the reason you can't do it is because you're incompetent. the russians did this effectively, consistently, and that's what's important. to say americans do this, too, the fact is intelligence organizations do this, but the russians absolutely impacted this election. they may not have gone into the ballot box and changed one vote from a yes to a no, but they manipulated a lot of people along the way to make the decisions they did when they went into the ballot box. that's the fundamental point that needs to be looked at. >> so if they're not hacking into machines, they're hacking into people's minds, basically, and get people to be of the
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affect, i won't vote for hillary clinton because she murdered 40 people or getting people to believe that, what can counter intelligence do about that? that's what people are getting off facebook articles. >> that's exactly right. we live in a free society. we've got to respect that. on the other hand, to jack's point. look, just being aware that the russians were, in fact, launching a campaign. and look, my goodness, come out and say it was successful. to have the president of the united states -- we heard one of the most shocking things in the comey testimony was the fact that the president never really -- after january 20, never seemed to have any interest in following through with what the russians did. how can we counter this? how can we build this up? at a minimum, joy, we need to have a separate entity that's looking at this and asking the question you just asked. how do we stop this? how do we inform the american public that this is happening? i think that's the biggest part here is the communication, the
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information. that's what we need to focus on. >> jack, after the iraq war in which the intelligence community was, you know, quite frankly, misused by the former administration in order to convince americans, in order to run an information campaign to get americans to believe that iraq had something to do with 9/11, polls showed over 60% of americans, something up to 70%, that iraq had something to do with 9/11. could they have started a campaign saying, yes, facebook, this is a lie from russia signed by the u.s. government? >> that's the petri fying part. if we think of what james comey talked about, it wasn't just made to jim comey, it was made to everybody else. we can look at nsa, everybody else. the question is, are all these people being driven by trump, by the republican party, and are
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they going to become arms of it? we can't have that because we won't have credibility otherwise. >> is the reason we're not having a reexamination of this on the one hand democrats don't want to land any blame on the previous administration for the intelligence failure and republicans cannot admit that donald trump was elected by anything other than his own genius? >> i think that's exactly right. the reality is whatever the russians did started under president obama. the republicans will put themselves into a position where if they admit the russians affected the vote, to whatever degree that is, that is their platform. and i think that's why they won't push this forward. >> it's all about legitimacy. appreciate you both. more am joy after the break. i know this is sudden,
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houses. he's just new to this. >> at first house speaker paul ryan seemed to be all by his lonesome this week in minimizing trump's meddling in the russian investigation and the demands from his loyal pledge of the fbi. he played on his niavete and inexperience. the man who bragged about becoming president just didn't know how to be president. and then some of trump supporters clipped to his defense with ryan. here's what they had to say. >> he hasn't done diplomacy. he hasn't dealt with the justice department. so he does things differently. >> i think it boils down to this. this is the action of someone who was putting together a plan to impede an investigation, or is this a non-politician,
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unconventional figure who simply operates in ways that are different from previous presidents? >> the president was vindicated. it's understandable to me why the president would be a little put out by comey and say to comey, good grief, if you're telling me i'm not under investigation, why don't you tell the american people, because this cloud of an investigation is really damaging. and i think that's sort of an honest appraisal and an honest reaction by the president. >> we can only imagine how they'll respond after attorney general jeff sessions testifies to congress. we have our panel here. we'll start with you, corrine. why are you so mean to the president? he's just a little guy. he doesn't understand presidenting. it's hard. and why are you guys so mean when he doesn't know yet how to be president? >> because there's so much
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winning, joy. so much winning, joy, happening. it's just so unbelievable. look, this is not your grandfather's republican party anymore, it's really a shell of itself. you have republicans sitting on the bow of the titanic playing the violin instead of being the co-equal branch of government. you know, that's what they're allowing donald trump to do, they're enablers and donald trump's bad behavior just continues to push forward. they're just, once again, picking party over country. >> kaitlyn, is fantasizing the president really of sound defense? >> you know, joy, i have to go back to the election and what it said about america, the obama administration. the people were looking for something different. now, we found trump and i don't know if that's the difference.
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we're going to find that out in 2018 with the midterms, especially the u.s. senate races. i hear the other people saying he hadn't been in office. ronald reagan was governor of california, george bush governor of texas. they governed big places. that's no excuse that he has not been a politician. i think my discourse here is i'm sad that he didn't -- hasn't had a chance to enact any of the policies he talked about when he was in the republican primary so far and all of this has gotten in the way. >> the reality is he ran saying those things were a virtue, that the fact he wasn't like jeb bush, low-energy jeb who was just a governor, we didn't want that, there were senators running in ohio and big states. he said it was a virtue he didn't know anything about washington and that's why you should elect him, because he could clean up. bob inglas, who used to be a
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republic republican, he said, speaker ryan, you know this sort of idea -- because speaker ryan tried to say they would not have impeached a democrat had a democrat done the same things. ryan actually said that. then he said, speaker ryan, you know this isn't true. you know you would be inquiring into impeachment if this were a democrat. and we live viewed you on this show because you're honest. wouldn't they be impeaching hillary clinton if she had done half of this? >> i can only go back in history. bill clinton was impeached and was removed from office. this is politics at its highest nature. certainly we would be trying to impeach her and certainly the democrats are trying to get to the level of impeachment of donald trump. but all of this is pretty premature. i do see it as complete political theater and getting in the way of getting anything done in washington.
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that's where the threshold of 2018 is going to show up and we're going to find out if the american public has had enough of the gridlock and everything just being stuck where it is. >> well, there was gridlock for eight years and that pretty much helped donald trump. let's look at some bicameral defenses. let's start with lindsey graham who gets credit as a trump critic, but he's really a staunch defender and dismisses the idea that there was a problem with trump. >> unless mueller is an idiot, which he's not, he's concluded there was no obstruction of justice. if he concluded otherwise, he wouldn't be testifying. you wouldn't let your commander in chief testify. >> let's listen to fox news on friday essentially also
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exonerating donald trump. >> i think what happened in the last 24 to 48 hours cleared a lot of things up and confirmed everything trump has said all along, that he wasn't under investigation. after what we saw, it looks good for the president and frankly not so good for former fbi director james comey. >> jennifer, it's good enough for them. >> this is why i have mentally andie mother-in-l emotionally l republican party. it's shameful. these people continue to put party above country. lindsey graham, shame on you. you're a prosecutor yourself. you saw jim comey come up there. he didn't talk about areas where he thought he would be trouncing on bob mueller's territory and he was honest. it's shameful. they have proven to the american people they are unfit to leave. shame on paul ryan who insists
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that innocence and do you polup some kind of excuse. if he hasn't figured out in six months how to be president, he should step down. >> and they're trying to say the premise of this, forget the obstructive justice, but the underlying offense just never happened. here's probably the strongest defender of donald trump questioning jim comey on thursday trying to clear donald trump. take a look. >> on february 14th, the "new york times" published a story the headline in which "trump campaign aides had repeated contacts with trump intelligence." you asked earlier if that was an inaccurate story. would it be fair to characterize that story as almost entirely wrong? >> yes. >> you have been writing about this and talking about this on this show since early last summer. is it just definitively not true that the trump campaign definitively had contact with the russians? >> well, we know from the trump
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campaign's own admission that people on their staff had numerous contacts with moscow, and not only that, lied and covered it up while applying for their security clearance processes. let me tell you something. i've heard a lot of people say this is proof conclusively. nothing has been proven at all. we are at the beginning of a very, very long counter-espionage investigation on one hand. that doesn't even include all the other pathways that the special counsel could go and investigate for money laundering they just bought on the head of the treasury's money laundering team. we could go a hundred different places in the next year and at the same time still prove or disprove there was contact with moscow. but all of these connections didn't appear in a vacuum. they came from somewhere. and the trump administration is
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going to have to answer to them. >> there was a piece that malcolm wrote this morning that was tweeting out saying, you may end up proving infiltration, not collusion, but that still remains a scandal, right? >> what? infiltration is my worst nightmare. i've been saying this since last july. it could be possible that someone on their team -- and i've got a candidate but i'm not going to say it here -- could have actually been a turned agent for russian intelligence, and all of them could be people who were unwitting aspects who were doing moscow's bidding in the hopes they would have some financial compensation but they thought it was all legitimate. this could be much worse than where we are now. >> and jonathan, that means to katon's point and the point malcolm was making, for the foreseeable future, the trump administration isn't going anywhere, they're only answering questions about russian collusion and obstruction of justice. >> answering those questions or not answering those questions or
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dealing with tweets from the president who keeps coming back to it when the administration wants to talk about other things. remember infrastructure week? we were supposedly talking about that. instead the president keeps digging the hole deeper. to this excuse making for the president, yeah, he's not a politician, he doesn't know the customs and the mores of washington, d.c., of the swamp, if you will, but you know what? the american people, whether the person is a politician or not, when they send the president of the united states through the white house, they expect that person to be prepared. and no one is fully prepared for the awesome responsibility that comes with sitting in the oval office. but they damn well expect that that person six months into the job would at least be curious enough to know how to comport himself to the duties and rigors and responsibilities of that job. >> absolutely. thanks, you guys. you're all going to come back. thank you, as always. up next, reaction to the
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you got someone who has a reputation for probity, someone who has a reputation for telling the truth, someone who takes copious notes. on the other hand, i think a lot of people will tell you the president himself makes accusations that turn out not to be true. he did that in a tweet this morning. >> this morning a justice department official who was fired two months before james comey talked about his post. while the white house tweeted
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before deciding who to believe, they already were on the side of credibility. welcome. i'm trying to pick something to start with to go on with. let's start with the fact, and i'll start with you, corrine, donald trump tweeted early this morning, and this is what pete was referencing in the sound bite you just heard. i believe the james comey leaks will be far more prevalent than anyone ever thought possible. totally illegal? very cowardly. what does it mean we're setting up cuonsult p-- what does it me that trump is setting up a contest of culpability between trump and people like pete b
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barrara? >> it seems the president is competing with someone he fired and didn't rehire. by the end of the day, we'll have commentary on all of this, and the president may stand down, but i doubt it. comey is a respectable figure in this whole process. he articulates himself well. a couple things i'll tell you on commentary is donald trump is never going to show his taxes and he's never going to testify under oath. i just don't believe either of those things will happen because he doesn't have to. we'll see how this plays out. we haven't talked about are there really tapes in the white house now? that's another piece of confusion that we'll see exactly what it means. >> sorry. that was just me signalling to my crew -- sorry about that -- keep talking, keep talking. >> hey, joy?
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>> yes, go ahead. >> in this contest of credibility we have here that's set up between the president of the united states and the former fbi director, it's not even a fair fight. james comey has a reputation of moral rectitude going all the way back to the incident in the hospital room with attorney general ashcroft, and he's going up against the president of the united states with a 34% approval rating and dropping, and also a president who, as the "washington post" facts checker noted last week, in his first six months in office has made more than 600 misleading or false statements. it's not a fair fight. and the fact that the president keeps tweeting out -- tweeting heckles to the former fbi director, james comey, is mind-boggling, it's disappointing and it's only going to make his life worse. >> i want you to listen to a
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little bit of pete barrara implying heavily that trump is a liar. >> there is speculation in an accusation that there are other leaks and that's going to come out at some point in the future. i think there have been other accusations made in a haphazard unsubstantiated way by the president that he's been wire tapped. no evidence of that has materialized. i think the point is that accusations made in the heat of the moment in the 140 characters on twitter based on the track record of history are not to be taken very seriously. >> it seems like all of trump's nightmares are the people he fired, right? it's all the people he let go there are proving to be his undoing. >> right. and we all know that donald trump has this allergic kind of relationship with the truth. he doesn't seem to know what the definition of truth is. there's another statistics or numbers that i want to bring up which came from the "washington post" last week. even voters are questioning donald trump.
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they say -- there is a poll that said 56% of americans are saying that they think donald trump is actually interfering with the russian investigation. and there is one that says 61% of people thought that he fired james comey because he was trying to protect himself, not the country. so donald trump has a lot of problems here. he has that 34% approval rating and then people are paying attention to what's going on. it's not just in d.c. folks are paying attention to what's going on in this russian investigation and it's going to hurt donald trump more and the republican party. >> jennifer, you know the old saying, it's not the crime, it's the cover-up. related but separate from the russian investigation is this question of whether trump tried to obstruct it. pete barrara is a pretty darn good lawyer and this is what he had to say on the question of whether he sees evidence of obstruction. >> based on the third party of our government, there is no basis to say there is no obstruction.
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on the point whether the president has legal authority to fire or direct investigation, it's a little silly to me. the fact you have authority to remove someone from office doesn't automatically immunize that act from criminal responsibility. >> and jennifer, you've been really strong on saying that republicans are cowardly and not wanting to act, but just as a legal matter, if obstruction of justice happened, that could still be separately pursued whether republicans want it to be or not, right? >> correct. there is an open question in our system whether a sitting president can be indicted. way back in watergate, leon duwarsky thought whether or not there was impeachment. that's an open-ended question. first of all, jim comey isn't alone. he's going to have corroborating witnesses to whom trump said similar things. he's going to have the contemporaneous notes that we have yet to see. so it's not just jim comey, it's all of these people against donald trump. and secondly, if you want to look at the polls, look at his
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trustworthy numbers. those are over 60% in those polls. that's a problem in itself. and also these tweets themselves may be considered witness tampering, retaliation, obstruction of justice. so his very act of responding indicts himself. >> and katon, behind the scenes, republicans are showing a strong face. they think the comey testimony went great for donald trump. behind the scenes, though, is there any concern that trump is now toxic? you said to the agenda but also maybe among some base voters? >> well, i don't know what the democrat operatives or democratic operatives are doing, joy, but i can tell you that once president obama got elected, we hunkered down and figured out how to go in over a thousand house and senate seats around the country. we found out how to win mayors' races on the back of very unpopular policies in the homeland that president obama was pushing. i don't know whether the
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democratic party is that well organized yet, and i don't know whether the toxicity of trump is there. i find that he gets a pass well beyond the scope of anything i've ever seen as a politician, and i think -- just yesterday i heard him getting credit for trying to be different in washington, for one who is willing to tell people where he is. so i can't tell you whether that poll number we're seeing coming out of quinnipiac or whether it is is going to last. i can tell you we're going to have a really, really good bell weather curve looking at 2018 and those 33 senate seats that are up. then we'll know whether trump has a 2020 problem or a 2018 problem. >> let's ask jocorrine john pierre. is the democratic party equipped to take care of trump's problems? >> good question, joy. i hope so. we're going to see assaf. the assaf race is happening on
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june 20, so i think that will be a great indicator of where we are currently, and the energy still seems to be on the democratic side and i'm hoping it will be a wake-up call for the other side as well as to what's going on. republicans can't continue just protecting donald trump and being his enabler. but i think that right now the republicans have a problem for 2018. we have those 23 -- those 23 seats that -- in the house that hillary clinton overperformed in, and those are republican seats. and those are suburban seats. the thing i don't understand is republicans don't just need donald trump voters, they need independence. they also need democratic voters to keep those seats. and they don't seem to care about anybody else except donald trump's voters. i'm not really quite understanding that. so it's going to be a tough sell for republicans if this is what they continue to do. >> we shall see.
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corrine john-pierre, thank you very much. katon, jonathan, we'll be back. the rest of the republicans don't let comey week keep them from their agenda. up next, the latest attack on obamacare. garfunkel (instrumental) [ snoring ] [ deep sleep snoring ]
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to friends at more banks then ever before. you got next? chase. helping you master what's now and what's next. tens of thousands of people are lining up along new york's fifth avenue for the puerto rico parade. it's been here for 60 years. this year it's important because the puerto rico people are headed to the poll to decide if they're going to claim their independence or keep their status quo. there is the fifth time they've voted for status and each time the territory has grown. puerto rico has its own constitution, own set of laws that can be overridden by the
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federal government. puerto ricans are u.s. citizens and they can't vote for president. they do not pay many federal taxes. they are in a current debt and immigration crisis. only congress can change puerto rico's status. the republican-led congress is unlikely to do that, because as a state, puerto rico would probably fall in the democrats column. up next, republicans' latest sneak attack on obamacare. sure we could travel, take it easy... but we've never been the type to just sit back... not when we've got so much more to give when you have the right financial advisor, life can be brilliant. ameriprise
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will we have a hearing on the health care proposal? >> will we? >> yes. >> we've already had one, but -- >> no, i mean on the proposal you're planning to bring to the floor of the senate for a vote. will there be a hearing?
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>> i've been invited to participate in this process and we are open to ideas and suggestions. >> well, i don't know that there's going to be another hearing, but we've invited you to participate with your ideas -- >> that's not true, mr. chairman. >> while all eyes were on former fbi director james comey on thursday, senator clair mccatskill was down the hall trying to sneak the obamacare repeal bill through the senate with no approval from democrats or the public. >> when you're saying you invited us, and i heard you, mr. secretary, just say we would love your support, for what? we don't even know. we have no idea what's being proposed. there is a group of guys in a back room somewhere. we're not even going to have a hearing on a bill that impacts one-sixth of our economy. we're not going to have an
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opportunity to offer a single amendment. >> vox reported this week that like the extremely unpopular house bill, the senate version will also likely result in tens of millions of americans losing their insurance, especially the poor and the sick. so speed is of the essence, per vox. some of their members are eager to vote soon, acknowledging that public pressure against the bill is only likely to grow as the summer wears on. back with me, katod, dawson, jennifer rubien. this bill, the house version of t has a 17% approval rating. 17. 62% of americans oppose it. the idea of cutting medicaid is only approved by 30%. 65% of americans oppose cutting medicaid funding. and the last one, when asked who is responsible for the future problems with obamacare, trump and the gop, 63%, obama and the democrats, 26%.
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why, oh why, katon dawson, having seen with your own two eyes the problem of trying to give people health care, the effect it had on democrats that you guys benefitted from, having seen that happen to democrats, why is your party trying to take 23 million people's health care away? why do they think that's good politics? >> i'm not sure they think it's good politics. >> why are they doing it? >> history seems to repeat itself. i've said, and joy, we've had this discussion. whichever party is going to own this policy of health care is going to own the defeats that come with it. there are several things that happen. people want cheap health care. they want the ability to pick their own doctor. they want all the sound bites there. this is a big, big problem for the political party who is going to own it. and the democrats handed it right to us. nancy pelosi right to us, harry reid. we didn't get to read that one,
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either. so the consequences are we promised in the election -- >> you almost made it, katon. there were months of hearings, months of hearings, all summer was hearing. remember the summit? remember the obamacare summer? katon, come back with me. we watched the senate committees commit political suicide on tv and they were trying to give people health care. literally, when democrats were trying to give people health care and they were self- self-emanating on television for the entire summer. katon, dawson, please explain. >> it's going to be a long summer this time, too. >> jennifer ruben, you've observed your political party for a long time. it feels like political malpractice but the democrats are dead determined. the freedom caucus saved them by killing the bill. why are they bringing it back? >> this is bizarre.
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listen, it's very, very unpopular. it's also a crummy bill. it was thrown together because this group had to be appeased and that group had to be appeased. it's totally incoherent. so why are they doing it? they come back with the answer, because we promised. we promised to do something and it's stupid. maybe it's better not to keep your promise. i think they feel like their base will kill them if they don't do it. the base is already going to kill them because it's not doing what they wanted them to do. so i think you have deep red state republicans in the senate and the house who think that it's a great idea to take away health care, and they have sworn up and down they're going to take it away. and then you have reality, which is it's a cruddy bill. it is a big giveaway to the rich. it's like a simon lagrese health care bill. you take away 23 million people's health care and you take away tax cuts that wholly
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go to the poor. i wish someone in the senate would kind of look around, turn to reality and say they don't like it out there. >> the little monicle man on the monopoly board, he's the only one that loves this bill. there is a tweet, apparently, according to my producing team. donald trump has tweeted about this. hopefully i can read this with my squinty eyes. the democrats have no message, no on economics, no on taxes, no on jobs, no on failing obamacare. they are only obstructionists! jonathan, are they doing this because trump is telling them to? >> i'm doing my hillary clinton imitation. listen, listen, that clip of
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clair mccaskill is something every democrat on the hill should watch, should study, should internalize. it's a message that every democrat who wants to take back the house in '18 and take back the white house in 2020 should watch and internalize. there is a lot of criticism out there that the democratic party has no message other than trump is horrendous, that they have nothing to stand for. what clair mccaskill did in that clip, in that hearing, is to show democrats there are real issues affecting real people that need addressing that are happening while this cloud of russia is going on. and if democrats can't figure out how to beat back republicans who are trying to take health care away from millions of people -- the cbo estimated i think it's the house bill would snatch health care away from 23 million more americans. if democrats can't make hay over that and show what their alternative is, which is to keep
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and repair obamacare rather than institute trumpcare, then they deserve to lose. but the president's handing them the message, the capitol hill republicans are handing him the message. all they have to do is take it and run with it. >> there you go, you actually just answered my question. because we both know, we all know on this panel and i think i'm going to get an amen from katon finally on this show, the democrats don't have a unified response on this. clair mccaskill has people who get one-off strong responses, but anthem, a big insurance company there, says it's dropping out altogether on the insurance exchange, and they will likely further withdraw sharp increases in plans if they aren't given a certainty about the future of the aca, particularly the cost-sharing payments. president donald trump has threatened to stop them. it's clear it is republicans
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undermining health care right now. where is the unified democratic response? i'm not sure they know how to respond. >> no, clearly they don't. but again, even that story points the way for what democrats should be saying, that the republican party at the trump white house is doing anything and everything to not only repeal the affordable care act, repeal obamacare, but setting up the conditions to make it possible that if they can't repeal and so-call replace obamacare that the whole thing potentially implodes. not because it's unpopular, but because the white house administration has made it so uncertain that -- businesslike certainty, and when there's uncertainty, they do whatever it takes to protect themselves. if that means throwing millions of people off health care, making only one insurance company or one policy available in an entire state, then so be
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it. the white house is supposed to -- and the federal government is supposed to be looking out for the least of these, and that's not what is happening now. >> katon, so what is the threshold? i'm sure your party is sort of popping champagne that the democrats or the dnc, that apparatus really hasn't organized itself to respond to this on a big name basis. republican voters are going to understand that they no longer have the money to have their elder senior family members in elder care because medicaid payments are going to be cut and they've run out of money. they understand they don't have health care for their children anymore. you have something like repeeling dodd-frank that wall street is going to love, but that just reminds people the casinos they broke down in the first place. i'm talking about modern, suburbanish republicans, what's
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their flethreshold? >> joy, what i see in polling, and this is really serious. i see an electorate that understood our government can't afford anything. this is what helped propel trump to winning an election, is the realization that we can't have everything. surely we love all health care -- >> but their own health care, their children's health care, are they saying i'm going to give up my health care, my children's health care, my mom's health care, meals on wheels. sna wh is that what republicans thing, that if we can't afford anything, the first thing to go is the elderly and the poor? >> how about tax cuts for the rich? >> go on, katon. >> that's always a nice, easy target, tax cuts for the rich, and we have to define who the rich is and who is going to take
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what. >> if people are saying we can't afford everything, how can we afford tax cuts for the rich, then? >> how are we going to build an economy that's going to be able to afford what obviously the president has looked for, which is a guy who has three jobs needs to move to two jobs. the guy with one job can find a job. >> but how is cutting .1% in tax cuts and the state tax going to help that? >> it's a whole other discussion. the difference is we've got to create an environment where our government can take in more money so it can fund the programs that we all want. the question is, we have to define exactly what those programs are. >> we're going to have this discussion again. this is a great panel. all stars on "am joy." coming up, the movie trailer that has the internet on fire! that's next. it's an important question you ask,
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now for some good news. marvel dropped the first black panther trailer during nba finals and it was so hot fire! take a look. ♪ >> the world is changing. soon there will only be the conquered and the conquerors. you are a good man. with a good heart. it's hard for the good man to be good. >> the fire burned him! brilliant. the bad news? you're going to have to wait until 2018 to see it. sorry. more "am joy" after the break.
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♪ ♪ come on baby don't you want to go ♪ ♪ same old place sweet home chicago ♪ ♪ ♪ >> during his presidency barack obama made it a point to always bring the celebration of black music and artists to the white house. unlike pride month, we see you trump white house, which is also in june, black music month happened to be one of designations that the trump administration didn't snub. this month the white house followed tradition and released a statement declaring june african-american music month, signaling out the accomplishments of chuck barry and dizzy gillespie.
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there's month to black music than white house designations, this can be more troublesome than triumphant. here to discuss is somebody heavily involved in the music industry for a very long time. re -- rap rehab founder paul porter, new author of "blackout." good friend and mentor of mine. good to see you. let's talk about this "blackout" is a new book, people posting on social media about it, the idea of celebrating black music does negate the difficulty black artists face in navigating it. >> when i decided to do the book, we've lost so much over the years. music was my passion growing up, right in jamaican queens and i learned a lot from music, we went from lyricists to the lyrically challenged and some of the problems is corporate and corporations want quick fixes,
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big days of music bands of over and it's a world of little -- >> how much has radio played? how much of a role has radio played in making it difficult for black music to succeed? >> radio was it. there's a chapter in there about pay for play and corporate radio, you hear 20 years ago, you would hear the top ten songs every four hours. now you hear them every 60 minutes, less variety and pockets of being filled on all levels and it's hurting the music. >> a lot of people will remember you from b.e.t. and music television definitely played a role in the way black music changed. i want to play a clip from 1983, this is the competitor, mtv and point that the late david bowie was talking about the respect black music has gotten. >> i'm floored by the fact
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there's so few black artists featured on here. why is that? >> we want to move in that direction and play artists that seem to do music for what we want to play for mtv. >> only few black artists one does see 1:30 in the morning until 6:00. very few featured predominantly during the day. >> did music television overall help or hurt black music? >> i think it helped for a while given a lot of exposure. i remember being at b.e.t. in the '90s and we were all music video. folks loved it but as time changed it and images changed and content changed. we went from super bands and singers just to rap. i love hip-hop. i know you love hip-hop too. >> i do. >> but things -- have been hom gen dzized a lot. we should be able to empower
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kids by music. >> is it legitimately true that a person can make a good living as a musical artist if you're not also a writer and producer? >> you can about tbut it's rare. that's what i talk about in the book. that the odds, you know, we love jay-z and bey they are one in a ga zil on, it's tough to be competitive in the music business without money. >> absolutely. paul porter, my friend, thank you very much for being here. the book is "blackout", my 40 years -- >> blackout the book.com too. >> before we go, i want to say thank you to the african-american policy forum led by professioner kimberly crenshaw, my team and i attended their 20th anniversary gala, where i was honored to receive the george curry drum major award for pioneering civil rights and political journalist george curry. thank you very much for that special honor. that is our show for today. be sure to join us next weekend.
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or any of its ingredients. most people using stelara® saw 75% clearer skin and the majority were rated as cleared or minimal at 12 weeks. be the you who talks to your dermatologist about stelara®. hello, welcome back. it's high noon in the east, 9:00 out west. here's what's happening. a new reaction from a member of president trump's legal team on whether ron mueller's job is in jeopardy. take a listen. >> will the president promise not to interfere or attempt at any time to order the deputy attorney general to fire robert mueller? >> the president of the united states as of we all know, he's going to seek the advice of his counsel and inside the government as well as outside and i'm not going to speculate on what he will and

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