tv Morning Joe MSNBC June 16, 2017 3:00am-6:01am PDT
i'm yasmin vossoughian alongside louis burgdorf and ayman mohyeldin. now "morning joe." >> we all agree we're here to serve the nation we love and the people who call it home. that's the source of unity. more than ever, we must embrace it so that on this special night i leave you with three great american words that for generations have torn down barriers, built bridges of unity and defied those who have sought to pull us apart. ladies and gentlemen, let's play ball. >> all right. last night the annual congressional baseball game went on as planned, one day after the shooting of the republican team's practice. both teams huddled in prayer before the game. lawmakers stood side by side for the national anthem. the ceremonial first pitch was thrown out by capitol police officer david bailey who suffered a minor injury in the
shooting. organizers sold close to 25,000 tickets, and the game raised over a million dollars for d.c. area charities. democrats ended up winning 11-2 but after team manager, congressional mike doyle accepted the trophy, he then gave it to his counterpart joe barton to put in steve scalise's office on behalf of the democrats. he remains in critical condition this morning. he's undergone three surgeries so far. the hospital released a statement last night saying he has improved in the last 24 hours and will need additional operations and will be in the hospital for some time. that's a lot to start with. good morning everyone. >> that is a lot to start with. it's good news we hear he has improved. >> we're hopeful. >> it's been such a frightening time, such a frightening time for everybody on the hill that has known and loved this guy for
a long time. last night, what a wonderful display, not only by the members on the field, but the people that poured out and watched this game. we've been to a few of these, mark halperin. it's not always the biggest crowds. last night there were a lot of americans who said, hey, i want to come out, show my support, not only for steve scalise and the people who were injured, but i want to come out in support of unity and before the game you had paul ryan and nancy pelosi sitting down in an interview talking about the need of republicans and democrats doing just what they're doing right there, getting along despite the fact that they disagree. i think it's just incumbent upon paul ryan on the republican side and nancy pelosi on the democratic side to police their most extreme members.
and when somebody, and i want mention any names -- let's just hit the reset button. when somebody says something wildly inappropriate or hateful, they need to call them out publicly. >> great moment and great it resolved around baseball. now they have opportunity as they start to deal with actual policy. what will both sides do to not just lower the temperature, but actually try to get the rips to be fruitful for the american people. >> i think the most important thing, mika, yes, legislation. if you can find legislation that you can agree on, great. if you can't, you can't. but at the very least your responsibility to your children, our children, to the republic is to show people that you can get along, be civil and work together and not vilify the other side in a way that will encourage the most extreme among
us, whether on the far right or far left. >> on this friday, june 16, we have onset senior political analyst for nbc news mark halperin, washington anchor for bbc news erica katty kay along with donnie deutsche and nbc correspondent kasie hunt. >> i've been to these in the past. it was so clear, it was like almost nationals game crowd, everyone excited going in the stadium together. it's been a really difficult couple days on capitol hill. the mood has been somber. everyone was very worried yesterday about steve scalise's condition. i think it was very relieved to hear reports his condition is improving. this was a chance for everybody who cares about all these members and who is part of this community to celebrate together. it was a moment of relief. there were a lot of conversations on the sidelines
about security. i think people feel the atmosphere has changed. i think that will keep being a conversation. it was a very nice way to celebrate what this baseball game was all about. >> it certainly was. we can hope for more unity in the future. now to breaking news out of syria. russia's defense ministry says one of its air strikes may have killed isis leader abu bakr al baghdadi. say say the strike that occurred on may 28 in raqqa hit a meeting of isis leaders. nbc news has not independently verified the claims. the u.s.-led coalition says they can't confirm russia's claim, but we are looking into that. we will certainly bring you the very, very latest on that. what would be the significance? >> we've got to be skeptical. if, in fact, this happened, what is the significance, katty? >> we've had several reports that al baghdadi has been killed, the first report he's been killed by a russian strike.
we need to have this confirmed, this story, because we don't want to go down that rabbit hole again. for me the significance would be very carefully and systematically coalition forces have been taking out the next cadre of isis leadership. usually you would think if baghdadi goes, quickly he'll be replaced. it may be that the next ranks have been hurt so badly that that wouldn't happen so automatically, in which case getting rid of him could have a major impact. they're being squeezed, about to lose mosul and about to lose raqqa. >> let's bring in msnbc's ayman mohyeldin. ayman, what do you make of the reports? obviously we take them all with a grain of salt. if, in fact, he was killed, what does that mean. >> you have to put it in two context. one, what this means for u.s. and coalition partners in the
fight in iraq and syria and isis's control in that area. you also have to look at it in the global fight against terrorists and jihadists around the world. certainly going to demoral lies some of the fighters, especially with the push that's now happening from the coalition in iraq and syria. in the long term, you have to ask is this going to do anything to deter, as katty was mentioni mentioning, the next generation of isis leaders. think eve already begun to splinter in egypt and libya. their generation of leaders will be more hardened. as we saw with the killing of osama bin laden, what it did was allow al qaeda in yemen to be stronger and in tpeninsula to become stronger. >> we appreciate it ayman.
later we'll have general stanley mcchrystal with us. we'll talk more about that. throughout the show, mika, we'll obviously be talking about yesterday what happened, the information coming out that robert mueller's investigation looking now at president trump. yet a series of tweets, three or four tweets yesterday attacking that investigation. newt gingrich inexplicably said things that he knows better about. it was stunning. yesterday was a day that you had a lot of smoke building up around the investigation. and then last night, a very interesting statement from rod rosenstein. >> shortly after 9:00, the deputy attorney general rod rosenstein released this statement, quote, americans should exercise caution before accepting atrue any stories fro anonymous officials, particularly when they don't
identify the country let alone the branch. americans should be skeptical about anonymous allegations. the department of justice has a long established policy to neither confirm or deny such allegations. >> mark, you're laugh iing. >> nothing controversial in that statement except why he chose to release it last night. >> donnie, you think the investigation has to move forward and we have to turn over every rock. that's not a bad bit of advice for journalists. >> it's not. >> we've already several stories that have gone out there. we all chase it and then we find out that some stories -- actually some pretty big stories end up not being true. this happens when you have a lot of leakers coming from a lot of different stories. no problem with the content of
it. in fact, i think a lot of editors would be good to slap that up on the wall. the question is, though, why did he say it? unusual. >> unusual to maybe slow down by five miles per hour this surge forward that's happening. still the big news out of yesterday was the last paragraph in the post article about the financial crimes. i've always said and once again i'm saying this with all restraint. my hair is not on fire, i'm not running in circles, not using the word impeachment. i have said all along to follow the money. we can talk all we want about russian collusion and obstruction of justice. at the end of the day where this story will go and rosenstein wants to temper our excitement or not, when you dial back the reality that donald trump is known historically as a sleazy businessman, dial back the reality he couldn't borrow money from u.s. banks, dial back what
his sons have said. what will bring this presidency down is not tampering in this election, it will be financial wrongdoings with the soef e yet union. i'm saying that with restraight. >> thank you very much for being so restrained. >> we'll take that. >> donny restrained. the word of the year is context. we've got to keep things in proper context because it comes at us so quickly. it's important that we keep these investigations and contacts. if you're robert mueller, you're going to look at obstruction of justice. that leaked out that they were. that doesn't mean there was obstruction of justice. if he didn't look at obstruction of justice, he wouldn't be doing his job. you could say the same thing about these financial investigations. just because he's looking into donald trump's finances or other people's finances, he doing due
diligence right now. i only bring this up because the second these stories hit the newspaper that somebody leaks out they may be investigating somebody's finances, everybody immediately jumps to impeachment. i've been through this several times with clinton investigations. you know what? sometimes there's a lot of smoke and at the end they just clean up a little bit of fire damage. i just think a lot of people are jumping early. you've got to let the investigators do their job. you've got to let them build it out and not jump to conclusions which is what a lot of people in the media are doing right now. >> here is the reality of our lives and the president's life, process drives news coverage more than anything else. every day there's going to be a process story. the vice president hires a lawyer. they'll maybe start grand jury. you'll start to see a parade of people -- >> let me start right there. we said several weeks ago,
anybody in this cabinet, anybody in this white house, anybody who is on the campaign for a long time should be smart and should hire a lawyer. everybody in washington, d.c. that's been through this process that wasn't close to being guilty hired a lawyer. it's what you do. when people see this, media shouldn't report this as if it's the beginning of the end. >> we also shouldn't pretend this is normal. just saying. the vice president hired a lawyer. mark halperin, please. >> no, no, no, no. see, that's the shrillness. >> i'm trying to level you out. you're acting like you just scratched yourself. it's not like he got a lawyer, let's move on. in other news, flowers grow. i mean, come on. >> i said this several weeks ago. >> it makes you knowledgeable about how bad this situation is. >> there were a lot of innocent
people in the clinton administration that paid a lot of legal bills. there were a lot of innocent people in the bush administration that paid a lot of legal bills. they had to do it. >> do you think that's what's going on here? >> yes. i think mike pence has to get a lawyer because if he goes before the senate he's going to be having six, seven, eight, nine lawyers asking him questions. if he is interviewed by the special prosecutor, he's going to have four, five, six, seven lawyers interviewing him. he would be a fool, as would anybody, not to hire a lawyer. i'm not saying -- who knows? maybe he speaks russian. maybe he was a kgb agent. maybe he's the worst human being -- i'm not saying anything other than this is normal in the matter of course when these investigations start up, everybody around the president has to hire a lawyer. if somebody wants to make that out to be a huge deal and that mike pence is part -- that this
is watergate 2017. >> didn't say that. i said it's big news. >> i'm taking a position between you two. first of all, mike pence has the soviet-style haircut. some of these things will be a big deal. you can see someone going into a grand jury and saying that's a big deal because there goes so and so into the grand jury. >> i agree. >> ripple effect of what mueller does. the white house counsel's office says, you better lawyer up. some it could be significant, some it's the prudent thing to do. my point is every day for the foreseeable future there will be process things that drive this. we've seen the stakeout of the federal building of people going to grand jury, that will drive news coverage as far as the eye can see. >> katty kay, all i'm saying and you've been around, we in the media have to keep it in context and report it. you'll remember the summer where
every friday karl rove was going to be indicted, this is the day karl rove is going to be indicted. we heard it for three months. he was never indicted. we can't mislead people. we have to keep it in context. >> this feels broader than the period with karl rove. it feels more like the late '90s with bill clinton. more people involved, more people lawyered up. >> this feels different because our number one geopolitical adversary is in the center of this. it feels very different. >> it feels different, but i keep getting asked by people in the europe and the uk, trump is about to get impeached, right? of course not. i can't spoken to a lawyer who says there's a very credible case for impeachment and obstruction of justice. we'll have to see where bob mueller's investigation goes. that will demand patience oven our part to sit that
investigation out. >> let's be patient and let's not jump five steps ahead. and let's also understand that when people leak, they're self-interested. they have a reason to leak something out, so you don't know exactly what's right, you don't know who is trying to get back at somebody else. i'm just saying -- i say this for liberals that want donald trump to be impeached tomorrow. just take your time. i went through this with bill clinton. i would have people looking at depositions and investigations coming out saying it's over, bill clinton is done. we would hear that once a week in republican meetings, no. >> let me ask you a question, to mark's point about process, we all know what the next 12 to probably 18 months are going to look like. at some point, and you've talked a lot on the show about everybody you know, there's not been one turn on trump. we've seen some of the polls at 35. most of them still around low
40% for him. at what point is there a point where parts of his base forget whether they love donald trump or not, cognitively understand that whatever he promised he could do, infrastructure, health care, cannot happen and will not happen anymore as a result of it, and the very reason they voted for him -- at what point does the process start to affect the psyche where they go, like it or not, this guy can't and will not get it done for us. >> there are a couple of things happening right now. i think most republicans remain loyal to donald trump. they still see this as a decision between donald trump and hillary clinton. they have absolutely no regrets. that's why when people see donald trump still tweeting about hillary clinton, he's reminding his base, hey, it could have been her, so you better stand by me. that's what yesterday's tweets were all about. that said, there's an ap poll that showed donald trump's approval rating at 35%.
it's on the screen. 35% of americans approve, 64% disapprove. you're getting into that territory where you get down there. more importantly, the most concerning part of this poll that goes to the white house and what they are the most concerned about is the fact that 25% of republicans now disapprove of donald trump. when you start getting one in four republicans disapproving of donald trump. when you start seeing republicans start to panic as they're starting to do with private polls coming out of georgia, a republican district that tom price won by 20 points, and now it looks like ossoff may win in tuesday's campaign election, that's going to be a concern. look what happens wednesday morning. if he does win that by five, six, seven, eight points in a republican district and you see polls like this, that's a problem. also, mika, the gallup poll.
>> the gop controls the white house in congress, but the gallup poll shows republican voters don't like what they see. according to gallup, 41% of republicans say they're satisfied with the way things are going in the country. that's a 17-point drop since may. that's the lowest point since the president took office. we'll look into that more, also "the washington post" story that robert mueller is looking into the business dealings of president trump's son-in-law jared kushner. we'll follow this news as it comes out. we'll bring in republican congressman tom cole, former mississippi governor haley barbour and retired general stanley mcchrystal on the reports that the u.s. may send another 4,000 american troops to afghanistan. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. hey you've gotta see this. c'mon.
no. alright, see you down there. mmm, fine. okay, what do we got? okay, watch this. do the thing we talked about. what do we say? it's going to be great. watch. remember what we were just saying? go irish! see that? yes! i'm gonna just go back to doing what i was doing. find your awesome with the xfinity x1 voice remote. all those matters are now in
the hands of former director mueller. i have full confidence in him. he's widely respected. >> the president also called this a witch hunt. >> we're a nation of laws. the president is entitled to their opinion. >> many of us know him, have worked with him. we know him to be the ideal choice for this job. >> the president says he thinks it's a witch hunt. do you agree with the president or not? >> no, i don't think so. i don't see it as a witch hunt. for the sake of our institution and our democracy, we need people to have faith on how this comes out ultimately and this is a right way to go. >> he is a man of integrity and he needs to be able to do his work. it's not a witch hunt. >> i have a lot of confidence in bob mueller. this was a good choices. >> there was a suggestion made that the white house would dismiss bob mueller? >> i think it would be as explosive of any single act the president might take. >> the best thing to do is let robert mueller to do his job, the best vindication for the president is to let this
investigation go on independently. that to me is the smartest thing to do, the best thing to do and hopefully that will happen. >> fascinating. >> it really was. good for them. there's a former speaker who shamed himself -- >> oh, my gosh. shamed? >> disgraced himself. john pedora said, once you've sold your soul, any successive events that look like that are carbon copies of your soul. that was a disgraceful thing that newt gingrich said yesterday about a man who won a purple heart and a bronze star and served this country honorably in war and in peace. by the way, newt gingrich i'm sure was praising bob mueller after 9/11. the man did remarkable work keeping this country and keeping this city safe. i know he wants his wife to get an ambassadorship. we know her.
we like her very much. i hope she gets that ambassadorship. you shouldn't have to sell your soul to get it. anyway, a lot of talks of witch hunts. i think one of the best tweets of the day, perhaps one of the best tweets of the century from brian clas who says, i mean, it's like a witch hunt where the witch went on open tv and openly admitted to lester holt, i'm a witch. >> sounds like a witch, walks like a witch. >> it's not even that. if you call yourself a witch, basically which is what he did, yeah, i fired him to end the investigation. >> that strangely time statement by rosenstein coincided with new reporting from "the washington post" that special counsel robert mueller is looking into the business dealings of president trump's adviser and son-in-law, jared kushner. one of the reporters in the
piece horowitz hinted to the story on our show. >> the end of theory about money longering is in the cross hairs of the investigation. what can you tell us about that on the basis of your reporting? >> we know and we've reported before that trump associates including jared kushner, his son-in-law, are being investigated for financial crimes, along the all the other things being investigated, they are being investigated for financial crimes during the 2016 presidential election. >> an attorney for kushner responded in a statement, quote, we do not know what this report refers to. it would be standard practice for the special counsel to examine financial records to look for anything related to russia. makes sense. >> that's exactly what i was saying. >> and kushner volunteered to share with wong anything he knows. >> this is the thing about kushner. he said from the very beginning, i want to talk.
hey, senate, let me talk. >> i don't think he's going to love them going into his -- >> let me go talk, i want to talk: then they're like, we're going to drag him in and make him talk. >> his attorney is very well respected, democrat but widely respected by republicans and democrats. i think she's giving him the right advice, you make yourself available, you cooperate. >> she also says exactly what i was saying at the beginning which is, of course, he's going to look at his financial dealings. what do you think mueller is going to do? i wonder what baseball games he went to? we're looking into russia. he met with a russian banker, let's see what's there. >> let's see the tax returns. >> let's see the tax returns and let's see what's up. that's what you do. you follow it. if there's something there, we'll be talking about it more later. >> the news here is that we
could be getting a clearer picture of everything. that's fascinating. right now it's been very questionable how this presidency operates. >> the news here is as melania trump told donald trump, let this proceed, and let's let it proceed. you're innocent. let's get it out there. let it proceed. we'll finds out. what's interesting about this story, i told you several months ago steve bannon told people close to him, friends, that he didn't have to worry about jared kushner because he was going to just keep leaking russian stories and that friends reported back to me, and reporters reported back to me said, i have nothing to worry about, russia will finish jared kushner off. you asked a question, who leaked that story. if bannon had the information, bannon leaked that story. what do you think? >> i'm not sure people in the white house would be glad to see jared kushner go, i'm not sure
they would have had that information. i think it more likely came from the justice department or the fbi. if you're jared kushner and trying to strategize what your life is going to be like, you have to be worried. people have some motive, whatever it is, to put out information which does substantial damage to his ability to get things done. there's so many things we don't know about where this investigation is going to go. what we do know now clearly, mueller is not just looking at collusion with russia, all these financial questions and the question of whether the president obstructed justice, those could be a far more significant problem for the white house than anything having to do with russia directly. >> jared kushner's biggest problem right now, mika, he's in a white house where steve bannon and a lot of other people are coming after him -- >> many others. >> i'm saying they're all piling up. reince is leaking on him all the time, bannon is leaking on him
all the time. there are four, five, six others after him. reports coming out about jared kushner. there are six, seven unnamed sources. he's in a difficult position. i personally think it would be wise for him to go back to new york. >> there's a lot of reporting that shows both the president and jared kushner were warned about steve bannon and they didn't take the warnings. kasie hunt, this all happening amidst a really difficult time on capitol hill with obviously the shooting in the past 48 hours, and republicans in a very difficult position. what are you hearing? >> you were talking about kushner volunteering to go to the committee. i think there actually has been a little bit of a sense of frustration. it's not clear exactly what the process will be for having him come forward, and i do think every time there is a news story about a new set of facts, per se -- if now the committee knows mueller is investigating him over finances, they're going to want to know about that. that's going to take more prep
from kushner's lawyers to be able to take him up to capitol hill. look, i think that montage you played of republicans who are all saying, look, this isn't a witch hunt, let mueller do his job, they're reflecting the reality of their own lives which is that a lot of them think privately, will acknowledge, they do think this investigation is going somewhere and they don't want to be on the hook for it. they would like for it to wrap up as quickly as possible, and they don't want to have to be defending every day a president who is -- if he were to take this action and fire bob mueller, there will be a huge problem for all these republicans. >> that would be -- that would be saturday night massacre, 2017 style. let me ask you quickly about something we mentioned before. the president's approval rating in the ap poll down to 35. gallup shows a 14% drop in republican satisfaction within their own party. now you have ossoff and handel
election coming up on tuesday. the president sitting at 35% in this ap poll and republican strategists concerned that ossoff may win by five, six, seven points in a republican district. republicans' dissatisfaction dropping 17 points in one month, 17 points in one month, what are you hearing from republicans on the hill? are they starting to take more of a go-it-alone approach and say the president is on its own. >> joe, the one thing we haven't talked about yet, is the senate passed a russia sanctions bill, only two votes against it, rand paul and bernie sanders. i ties the president's hands. it says by the way, president trump, you won't be removing these sanctions unless you talk to us first. >> kasie, on nato, didn't they pass a resolution saying the united states strongly supports
the u.s.-nato alliance which passed 100-0? >> reporter: this sanctions bill has teeth to it. the president has to decide to sign it which would tie his own hands. i think just the fact that the russia piece of this was an amendment to this iran bill, and that means that mitch mcconnell decided, hey, i'm going to let this go forward. there was broad agreement on this, and while you can stick a microphone in a lot of these people who have been more sympathetic to president trump, somebody like bob corker, for example, who plays golf with limb and talks to him, they may not be willing to say in front of a microphone yet something negative about the president because, in part, they're worried about this base of president trump's that's like him and likely will still be with him in 2018, bru they ka vote for stuff like this. in this case i think the leadership on the hill said we're going to put something in your way, use our votes to stand
in your way. i think it's very reflective of those polling numbers. those numbers are getting bad enough that these midterm elections are potentially going to turn into a very difficult couple of years for republicans. honestly, the repercussions for president trump if they lose big in the midterms are potentially very high. >> all right. >> coming up, we'll talk to a former u.s. attorney who retired hours before president trump was sworn in, plus the nypd's top official on counterterrorism joints the set. what he says about the federal government's ability to handle a crisis given the turmoil in washington. also, leaked audio talking about trump -- this is -- >> donny deutsche is going to go on a red-faced rant on why donald trump must be impeached "morning joe" coming right back with a very enraged donny deutsche. he has a date this weekend in
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known donald for a long time. you've known him as a business person, you've known him as a dad, you've known him as just donald. been on the phone with him a lot. things are starting to heat up now. things are getting a little more difficult, a little more complex. is he capable of self-correction? is he capable of looking at steve bannon saying you've o gotten me at 35%, this whole us against the world thing has not worked. now we're going to try to expand our base. does he do that or goes deeper in the bunker? >> he begins to self-destruct. everything donald trump has done in his life is puff and inflate, his size, his money, his self esteem. right now for the first time in his life, that puffery is going to be pricked and pinned in a way he cannot control. the more his public persona, the more his size starts to deflate -- because everything is
about size for donald trump -- the more he's going to unravel in a way that i think will show his mental instability starting with, you mentioned, the day that go for his tax returns is when i think he starts to unravel. >> by the way, they'll get his tax returns. >> no, they won't. >> mueller is going to get them. >> and that's going to be where the emperor's clothes come off. you're going to see his worth is probably 5% to 10% he says it is, you'll see he's the least charitable guy in the world and where you'll see his russia connections. i was watching him read the teleprompter -- >> mika has known him, i haven't picked it up as much. mika picks it upped up and says there's something wrong, he's not the guy from a year ago. >> i was watching in an interview from years ago, must have been doing some netflix
documentary, there was a different facial expression, the eyes were different. >> knowing him and knowing what feeds him, donny, and what we've seen, you have to think about -- and this is the important factor here that could feed into the concept that you're setting up here. that is that cabinet meeting and all these people clapping, all these pictures of people clapping at him because that's all they're allowed to do. it looks like a dictatorship. it looks like he needs it. before that cabinet meeting that many would consider a little sick, he spouts off about the greatness of his presidency and says things that are not true. this is not the norm. and i think many would argue that this is very dangerous. >> all i will say is -- katty, is it's important to remember, and i hate to be the voice of reason here. it is important to remember that two years ago today, two years
ago today donald trump went down the escalator and how many people on this set -- actually most of the people on the set believed he could win. how many people off of this set in the media didn't think he could win? >> we never said it would be vea great thing. we said he could win, not that it would be great for america. >> hold on. let me finish my point. how many people when he went down there thought this guy could win? 1%, 2%. certainly nobody in the media elite, nobody in washington, none of the political leaders that are now being obsequious and bowing down to him thought he could win. the only warning i give, just like i give a warning on this investigation is, this guy has shocked us before. who knows? maybe he gets smart, maybe he fires steve bannon, maybe he brings in professionals around
him and maybe the people that work for him in the white house start looking more like mattis and mcmaster. >> men. >> maybe. >> does he do what bill clinton did in a similar situation? actually bill clinton's approval ratings were even lower than trump's at this stage in his presidency. he responded by bringing if leon panetta and he shook up the white house. with trump, does he have the capacity for introspection. >> he's 70. >> but he wants to win. winning will take a change in this administration. >> mark, he's at 35%. just being selfish, you can look at that and see steve bannon has taken you from 48% to 35%. steve bannon has said go to war with the intel community, go to war with the press, go to war with everybody. tear it down, i'm a lennonist, we need to tear down the state.
play to your base. i've heard it time and again. steve thinks you build from your base. well, he has actually boiled down donald trump's support to 35%. he's ruined the first five months of donald trump's presidency with a big assist from donald trump himself because he's been listening to steve bannon going to war with the press and all these other people. does donald trump, if he doesn't have the self-introspection, does he have the survival instinct to correct himself? >> i give the president most of the responsibility for where he stands. this is now like iran contra, it's like bill clinton and ken starr. it's engulfing the presidency. it's different. reagan and clinton were well into the presidency, had their legs under them. a president engulfed by congressional investigation, an independent counsel and no history of knowing how to work in government. so he's going to have not just be introspective but figure out how to dig out from an
unprecedented historical situation. >> mika, he can't do it himself. >> joe, i'll bring up the biggest point you made here, and we'll end here. washington always wins. washington always wins one thing he doesn't know is how washington works. >> there are important op eds to discuss this morning. we'll read what peggy noonan says about rage in america. the must-reads are still ahead. we, the tv loving people, roooooaaar!!! want our whole house to be filled with entertainment. easy boy! but we don't want annual contracts and hardware. you scoundrel! we just want to stream live tv.
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peggy noonan writes in "t"te wall street journal"" rage is all the rage and it's dangerous. what we're living through in america is not only a division but a great estrangement. it's between those who support donald trump and those who despise him. between the left and right. between the two parties and even, to some degree, between the bases of those parties and their leaders in washington. we look down on each other, fear each other, increasingly hate each other. oh, to have a unifying figure, program or party.
but we don't. nor is there any immediate prospect. so, as ben franklin said, we have to hang together or we'll surely hang separately. to hang together to continue as a country, at the very least we have to lower the political temperature. it's on all of us more than ever to assume good faith, put our views forward with respect, even charity and refuse to incite. >> amen. >> yeah. >> it's hard, but, yes, absolutely. >> this makes it so much harder because the anonimity of it means that people say things on this. they say it to all of us that ratchets up the temperature that they would never say if they had to put their name to it. >> kasie hunt, those looking to run for re-election, those looking to be the people who serve for our country, it makes it much more difficult when the rage is so high and extreme. >> i was talking to somebody at the congressional baseball game,
brought out consultants and folks working on this. this person has been doing this for many years. they can't even do focus groups anymore the way they used to, where you put republicans and democrats in chairs across from each other because the rhetoric immediately gets so heated, they just start fighting with each other. >> oh, my gosh, that's horrible. >> they've had to split it up and do it individually because the vitreal is so high. k katty's point about the cell phones is right. and members of congress are suddenly feeling very insecure. karen handel had somebody mail white powder to her house. this is not the america that any of us are used to living in. >> what's even more unsettling, donny, for members of congress, is that when you had jared lochner shoot gabby giffords, he was a paranoid schizophrenic.
he is one of these guys who probably thought his cats and dogs were reading his mind and sending them to the fbi. in this case, you actually had somebody that supported bernie sanders, that was somewhat engaged in the political process, made all the protests and actually seemed to be between the guardrails so it actually seemed like more of a logical response than, say, if somebody was a paranoid schizophrenic. that's when, not just republicans but republicans and democrats start worrying because they are worrying, oh, my gosh, all this stuff about us saying x, y and z on both sides could lead to some tragedy. >> the reason it's -- look this hate was here long before donald trump showed up. but certainly he has thrown kerosene. the reason it's not going to change right now -- we saw trump go from his unity speech to going after hillary clinton in less than 12 or 24 hours.
when you bring up donald trump, if you're at a dinner or in a restaurant, to any group on both sides, people's faces literally -- discussion on both sides gets angry. there is -- he is such an enzyme. he is so beyond who he is at this point. he is the metaphor for our fight for the soul of this country. >> let me take it one level beyond that. i sat down and was talking to a group of friends, republican friend friends and in all my life of talking politics, we talk and joust back and forth but personally in a small group i never raised my voice. i'm telling you, within three minutes, all these republicans that we had all voted for the same republican candidates our entire life yelling at each other about donald trump. yelling about either he was destroying the party or we weren't giving him a chance.
>> right. i walked away from that shaken. >> kasie hunt, thank you. eugene robinson says president trump has, quote, found himself exactly where he doesn't want to be. he joins us next to explain his latest column. >> donny's going to sflfly off a rage. mosquitoes and sequence their dna to fight disease. there are over 100 million pieces of dna in every sample. with the microsoft cloud, we can analyze the data faster than ever before. if we can detect new viruses before they spread, we may someday prevent outbreaks before they begin. itbut one i think with quesa simple answer. we have this need to peek over our neighbor's fence. and once we do, we see wonder waiting.
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donald and i, we are winning and winning in the polls. we are winning so much. we are winning like we have never won before. we are winning in the polls. we are. we are. not the fake polls. not the fake polls. they're the ones we're not winning in. we're winning in the real polls. you know, the online polls. they are so easy to win. did you know that? i know that. did you know that? i kind of know that. i know that. they are so easy to win. i have this russian guy. >> oh, my gosh, no. >> okay. >> it seems there may be some lingering resentment. >> could be. >> following president trump's contentious call.
turnbull, you just heard it, had some fun during australia's mid winter ball. one, two years ago donald trump came down the escalator. >> yes, he did. >> again, a reminder to everybody. everybody in the media bubble and the political bubble in new york and washington said he could never win. so, let's wait and see what's going to happen over the next year before declaring him politically dead on arrival. katty kay, though, on a very somber note, to suggest that our problems are not just our problems. one year ago today, something terrible happened in britain. >> the death of jo cox, the young woman, member of parliament, who had been campaigning for britain to remain in the european union and she was shot by somebody, one of her constituents on the street, who opposed her position, who wanted britain to pull out of the european union and decided
because they had different points of view he was going to kill her. he did. young mother of two kids. >> with her on set, senior political analyst for nbc news and msnbc mark halperin. washington anchor for bbc news america katty kay. donny deutsch is here. >> donny's going to get very angry in a few minutes. go up to the hamptons. >> joyce white vance, unanimously confirmed by the senate and retired hours before donald trump was sworn into office. >> she's going to join the university of alabama this fall as a visiting lecturer in school of law. >> roll tide. >> that's right. columnist and associate editor for "the washington post" and political analyst eugene robinson. we'll get to all the stories in a minute. first, mika, stories out of
georgia six, real concerns for republicans, osoff is moving ahead in the polls. >> the gop may control the house in congress but republican voters apparently don't like what they see. according to gallup, 41% of republicans say they are satisfied with the way things are going in the country, a 17-point drop since may. and the lowest point since president took office. >> stop right there. stop right there. donny, take a look at those numbers. if you were advising any corporation and a ceo had seen a 17% drop in satisfaction for coca cola or for general motors or for apple or for google or for any brand -- this isn't a brand. it's much more important. >> it is a brand, though. >> what would you be telling the board of directors? >> you would be in crisis management mode. those numbers, as somebody who has looked at nielsen numbers
and brand influence, that's almost mathematically impossible in samples to drop. if we have pollsters, to drop that number. i would say right now there needs to be what we call a hard right turn. hard right turn. it would be no different than all of a sudden if they were poisoning tylenol pills. something has to change from that crisis immediately. >> immediately. >> immediately. there's a consumer term permission to believe. you want to give consumers permission to believe "x." right now there is no permission to believe from even now 25% of republicans that donald trump is in any way capable of running the country. >> you have to make the change. you tell your base, hey, listen, i know we've gotten off on the wrong track. i know steve bavnnon was a terrible choice. i'm going to give you reason to believe i'm the guy who can fix things. i'm going to clean things out around here and bring in professionals that actually know how to run this place. >> if i was advising purely from
a brand perception point of view, short of that, which he will never will do, saying i've made mistakes and the gravitas of this office has hit me. short of literally in one swoop getting rid of bannon, whether this is 30% his fault, 90% -- say, you know what? i was a novice. tar him with everything. and he deserves a lot of the tar. that would give you, as you used the word yesterday, reset. that would be the beginning of a reset for him. >> because reince priebus is not going to do it because nobody believes that reince priebus is driving policy in the white house. >> no. >> steve bannon has told him, mark halperin, tear down the state. tear down everybody. attack everybody. attack patriots in the cia. attack patriots in the nsa. attack patriots in the fbi. attack the media. attack the people who cover you every day. we're going to war. when we go to the hill, we yell
and we threaten congressmen. that's what steve bannon has brought to this white house. >> the number of wars we talked about in the early days of the administration, number of wars that have been picked is massive. the one that's caused him the biggest problems, ironically, firing of the fbi director is not something that steve bannon supported. >> right. >> the president was driving that decision and recommended by others. the policy problems -- again, go back to clinton in particular. clinton was engulfed in scandal. impeachment investigation, special counsel, independent prosecutor. yet he was getting things done. separate track. separate track is what saved bill clinton's presidency. there is no separate track right now. health care is stalled. tax cuts, stalled. >> katty, that is the point. that is why he needs to get someone in there -- i always say washington wins. get people in there that know how to run washington as well as
you have general mattis in, who knows how to run the dod. bill clinton, lied under oath. he did this. he did that. but look what's getting done. america is balancing the budget. our economy is growing. he has cut taxes. he saved -- all the things that bill clinton said. he's reformed welfare. why would i get rid of this guy, right? >> that's why panetta was such a critical moment for him in his presidency. those first few months were engulfed -- not this kind of scandal and chaos but a certain amount of administrative chaos. he got panetta in and started having legislative achievements and come out in the end at 66% approval rating. we're talking about the moment at which republicans abandon the presidency and the assumption must be it will be when voters don't feel anything is getting done for them. that could be down the track.
the base will stick with him much longer. >> the hardest thing for the president, and particularly the younger people around him in the white house now, is that they've not come close to having their worst days. >> new numbers from the associated press tell a similar story. 64% of those polled disapprove of the president's job performance. when you ask only republicans, a full 25% disapprove of the job he is doing as president. >> gene robinson, comparing this to bill clinton's mess, i remember bill clint nen on in 1 having to go out and hold that press conference where he had to convince the media he was still relevant. if you read the constitution, the president does have powers. he sunk to a low. but he brought in new people. >> yeah. >> and, again, survived the toughest days of his presidency, because he actually figured out how to make washington work. >> yeah. he was the comeback kid.
and we will see if donald trump has any of that in him. at the moment, frankly, it's not -- >> he's still tweeting. >> right. stop tweeting. but, actually, do something that helps people's lives. do something that helps people get something accomplished. the problem is, of course, there's nobody in the administration who knows how to do that, who knows. and the president keeps sort of undercutting anything that does kind of halfway get done. >> yeah. >> he's undercut what the house did on health care. now i happen to think it's good that he did. i think what the house did on health care is awful. i think that was an awful bill. >> you mean when he said it was a mean bill. >> when he said it was a mean bill. >> so, he was in the rose garden, having that massive
celebration. >> cheering. >> over a bill that he said is a, quote, mean bill. >> it's a mean bill and the senate has to do more and be more generous. so, what are senators supposed to do with that? what's the house supposed to do with that? what's anybody supposed to do with that? how does that improve the process of repealing and replacing? it doesn't. unless he gets some consistency and some focus, which is not his history, i don't see how this gets much better. >> no. >> infrastructure week. we had infrastructure week. joe, he has accomplished infrastructure. >> you're going to have to do better than that donny. >> the constant lurchy tweeting makes the parallel to bill clinton, even at his worst, difficult. last night, rod rosenstein
released a statement, quote, americans should exercise caution before accepting as true any stories attributed to anonymous officials, particularly when they do not identify the country, let alone the branch or agency of government, with which the alleged sources are supposedly affiliated. americans should be skeptical about anonymous allegations. the department of justice has a long-established policy to neither confirm nor deny such allegations. >> joyce, have you ever seen a statement like that coming out of the justice department? >> it's unusual, isn't it, joe? we should all be good consumers, smart consumers of the news but i don't really expect to get advice in that regard from the justice department late at night. >> what happened? what would happen in a scenario that he would have to do a statement like -- would he just do it himself? >> it's actually so unusual my first take was maybe it wasn't the real thing. i went and looked on doj's website where the press release
were posted. >> so you were skeptical? you thought it might have been fake news, a fraud? >> it had that look but they're numbered serially, the numbers on the state department. this one numbers to track. i assume it will go up today. regardless of whether it was designed to respond to one of the investigation stories we've seen in the last couple of days or something still to come, it won't have the desired effect. it really will focus attention even more so on these ongoing developments. >> any idea what it was connected to? >> what's the chain of command with someone in his position releasing a statement? >> so, he is the chain of command on all things russia. so, he could release any statement he chose to. if you look at the stories that we've seen, the story on jared kushner in "the washington post" says it's based on u.s. officials. the first story where we heard that the president was under
investigation used "officials" without qualifying the country of origin. was he referring to one of those investigations? others have suggested another shoe will drop today. >> more to come. >> very unusual, very out of character for attorney general rosenstein. he tends to be circumspect. >> how could he not recuse himself? >> it's fabulous being an arm chair prosecutor. i'm really enjoying it a lot more than the real thing. rod rosenstein is steeped in traditions of the justice department and as soon as he realizes he's in a situation where it's incumbent upon him to recuse. we'll see him recuse. i don't have concerns on that score. it does look like, though, he is being gining to be drawn into the web of witnesses in this case. >> let me stop you right there. one fact pattern that jumped out at me.
you have the deputy attorney general being told of concerns from comey that donald trump was talking to him. and he went to the deputy attorney general, expressed these concerns. after that happened, the president came to him and said i want to fire comey. i need you to draft a memo to fire comey. just with those facts in front of you, it seems that rod roseinstein is already actually involved in this story, involved in this investigation and should he recuse himself now? >> it looks very much that way from the outside. if you go back and look at the memo rosenstein wrote, he doesn't take the step of calling for jim comey to be fired. he said these are the types of facts that might support that kind of conclusion. >> i know but -- i understand that. but that said, he has already been told by the fbi director,
hey, listen, the president is doing some things that really are making me feel uncomfortable. i know if i'm in that position and then the president comes and says i want you to draft a memo. >> that's a problem, isn't it? >> to fire the guy that's already come to me and expressed concerns about the president trying to influence the investigation, i don't know about you. i'm pretty sure you would do the same thing i would do. you would get as far away from that as possible and say mr. president, i can't do that. >> the reason people recuse from investigations in the justice department is not often because they have an actual conflict but to avoid the appearance. >> of impropriety? >> it's critical that people have faith in the justice department. >> isn't it clear that in this case it's both? he may not be the central player but just the two facts that joe pointed out, he's involved in the case and part of it is now being investigated. >> the firing of jim comey. >> that's the problem we have here, right, whether or not he
has an actual conflict. the appearance is impeding the american people to trust the justice system so i think we'll see him take appropriate action. >> let me ask you about the firing of comey and all the things that were said, telling lester holt yes i wanted to end the investigation so i fired comey. the white house spokesperson saying yes, we wanted the investigation to end and thought this was the quickest way for the investigation to end. the president of the united states telling the russian foreign minister we had a real nutjob coming after us. nothing to worry about now, though. the pressure is off. i fired him. if you were sitting in your office, trying to figure out whether to go -- let's say governor in alabama had done this. and we had a few governors in alabama go to jail before. >> we have. >> if you were sitting there wouldn't you, as a prosecutor, say i think this could be
obstruction of justice? i need to look into this, even if the underlying facts may not support a crime, they're obviously trying to kill this investigation. >> there is no doubt that there's sufficient predication for an investigation to be opened here. after mueller met with the senate intelligence committee yesterday they were deferring their investigation to him. they're, in essence, waiting for mueller to give them a report. obstruction, the statutory language is a little bit difficult. congress never contemplated a president engaging in obstruction. if, as a prosecutor, i had to prove all these elements, i might be sweating a little bit. >> what element would concern you the most that you have to prove? >> the statutes are a little bit unhinged for this particular situation. for some you have to prove an official investigation which may or may not exist here, but ultimately mueller has to go to the house and convince them to go after the obstruction charge.
doj won't indict a sitting president and the house will be able to employ a much more common sense understanding of what obstruction looks like. this looks a lot like obstruction. >> vladimir putin having fun with this, saying since comey might be under such political persecution, he is welcome in russia. >> edward snowden. >> take a step back for us, joyce. on thursday the 17th of june, what's your overall take of the investigation? it looks awful but it could be lawful. >> i did say that. it's very early in the investigation. and seasoned prosecutors, like the team that bob mueller has assembled, won't be quick to prejudge the evidence. we haven't seen or they haven't seen presumably tax returns yet. my guess is that that's a ve high on their list of financials
to take a look at. bob mueller has brought over michael drebin, the legal expert. he will be looking to see what statutes people haven't considered that might be a fit here. >> he has brought together -- laymen have read that he has brought together the a-team, the best of the best. is that your impression? >> no doubt. folks rounding out this team will do a good job. and the american people should have confidence that this won't be a witch hunt. these aren't people who need to prove a reputation or build their careers. these are people who will look at the evidence objectively, determine whether there's evidence of guilt and then take the appropriate action. >> do you read into the people he has brought in as an aha moment? he has brought these people in because he has something or not necessarily? >> money laundering folks have joined the team. interesting statute, carrying a 20-year statutory penalty, potentially the most serious
charge unless there's a treason charge. they won't know about money laundering until the end of the investigation when they see where the proceeds are. but that's certainly on the radar screen. >> joyce white vance, thank you so much. >> and roll tide. >> please come back. >> roll tide. >> i'll sit in the back. >> come on down. >> sit in the back of the law school class and do something i never did in law school, listen. >> oh, my lord. thank you so much. please come back, despite joe. we have some developing news out of cuba. raul castro is set to step down as president when his term ends in february next year. the country is preparing for the first steps in the transition. though it's widely assumed his vice president will take over, considered a cautious supporter of market reforms. >> meanwhile, president trump is expected to announce new rules over the u.s. policy toward the communist island in a reversal from obama era policies. in a speech in miami today, the president will propose limitations for americans
traveling to cuba and new regulations that prohibit direct financial transactions with the cuban military. officials say the policy changes are meant to steer money away from the cuban regime and toward the cuban people. >> still ahead on "morning joe," we'll bring in republican congressman tom cole. also ahead, former republican governor haley barber is here on set and retired four-star general stanley mcchrystal. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. you totaled your brand new car. nobody's hurt, but there will still be pain. it comes when your insurance company says they'll only pay three-quarters of what it takes to replace it. what are you supposed to do? drive three-quarters of a car? now if you had liberty mutual new car replacement™, you'd get your whole car back. i guess they don't want you driving around on three wheels. smart. with liberty mutual new car replacement™, we'll replace the full value of your car. liberty stands with you™.
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[ mooing sound ] it's drivng me crazy come on. [ spitting from tongue ] time for my secret weapon. sports, movies, tv, ah... show me music to distract a minion. [ voice remote click ] [ pharrell starts to play ] ahh. i'm pretty smart- ahhh! [ mooing sounds ] [ minions laughing ] show me unicorns. [ voice remote click ] together: ahhh... that works too. find your awesome with the xfinity x1 voice remote. see despicable me 3 in cinemas in june. >> somebody was telling me i'm so sad because protesters showed up. this is a democracy. if there seems to be a need for local law enforcement to be involve aid judgment will be made. but we must not misinterpret the spontaneous outpouring of voices of the american people as a
threat. >> all right. joining us now, republican congressman tom cole of oklahoma. very good to have you on the show this morning. >> great to be with u. so give us a sense of what you and your colleagues are seeing today, given the events of the past week and also perhaps the difficult situation the president has put some members of congress in, if you agree with that. >> well, i think it's been a pretty somber week, obviously, on the house. we all grieve for our friends. obviously, my very close friend, my whip. i'm one of his deputies, steve scalise but also the staffers that were injured, former staffers and, obviously, the capitol police who acted so h o heroical heroically. thaveng goodness steve was there because his detail would not have been there and the situation could be so much worse. everybody appreciates the
support, too. people have come together across partisan divides and the outpouring of well wishing and the sense that this was an attack on our democracy, the institution, people's house and not just the individuals. i'm very pleased to see that attitude out there across both parties and the ideological divide. >> have you had a chance to talk to steve? >> i have not. they've asked us not to contact him. kevin mccarthy, our majority leader made a quip yesterday that got a lot of laughs. if you guys go up and see steve he's going to want to make you feel good. like he always does. he'll be serving cajun food. so give him and the family a chance. other than the president, vice president and speaker, i think there have been very few visits because the hospital has asked us not to flood the place and get about their business. >> of course. >> like 2009, 2017 is a year of overheated rhetoric. do you personally have any concerns, do other members have
concerns about security in town hall meetings or moving about their districts or even in washington? do you suspect there will be increased security as we move forward? >> i think in washington there probably will be. again, particularly where you have a lot of members gathering. but you can only do so much. look, again, the capitol police, sergeant in arms do an unbelievably good job for us. i don't sense members are worried about their districts. most of them have dealt with crowds before. sometimes they're for you. sometimes they're not. but that's the exercise of democracy. so i don't see any dimunition of member activity. local law enforcement will be even more vingilant. as a courtesy when i do anything in my district we always let the police forces know because there might be a crowd and we want them to know they're there. quite often they send people all on their own. they're cautious and professional. so i think we'll go about our business as normal. >> all right.
gene robinson has a question. gene? >> tom, good to talk to you. how did you react when you heard that the president of the united states referred to the health care bill that you and your colleagues passed as mean, and suggested that the senate ought to pass a different bill? i mean, that seems to have sawed off the narrow branch that you guys climbed out on. did you not feel that way? >> no. >> and how do you proceed? >> i don't feel that way. frankly, i think you play to the audience, sometimes, you're talking to. telling senators that they're there to save the day because of the house is a pretty old presidential ploy. i think the senate probably didn't want to deal with this. they were probably surprised when we got it to them. they wouldn't be acting, quite frankly, had we not gotten something to them. i'm proud that they are. i said from day one i expect this to change in the united states senate.
then we'll go to conference. it will change again. that's when the decisive moment comes. i trust my colleagues. particularly have a lot of faith in lamar alexander over there. let's see what they come up with. we'll sit down and talk with them. the president will be involved in that. again, it's the normal political process working out. and that's a good thing. hopefully, we'll get to a better thing. in my state, obamacare is collapsing. we're down to a single provider. rates are going up 69%. our hospital, we're not a medicaid expansion state. we're treating patients we don't get reimbursed for. it's a very difficult situation and doing nothing was not option. >> katty kay? >> we heard the president speak very movingly about unity in the light of the shooting of congressman scalise and 16 hours later he started tweeting about witch hunts and the unity seemed to disappear from the white house.
how useful is it, what the president is doing with his twitter account at the moment? >> i think the president can do good things with twitter, he has done good things with it. in terms of investigation, my advice is that it's better not to comment on it. let the professionals do their job. the more quickly they can do it and get it done, the better off you're going to be. >> is he right it's a witch hunt? do you agree with him? >> no, i don't. robert mueller has got a lifetime credibility. and let's let him do his job. so do i think there's been a lot of inappropriate activity, the leaking, for instance, which is criminal and that's coming out of, you know, law enforcement, the justice department. i'm not sure where. whoever those people are, they're breaking the law. i can understand the president's frustration about that and that's fair to point out. the basic investigation needs to proceed. in the end it's going to clear him, i think, because i don't see any evidence of collusion. the legal people i talked to don't see any evidence of obstruction. let the investigation go on and
let the chips fall where they may. >> congressman tom cole, thank you very much for being on this morning. >> thank you. >> best to you and everybody there. >> thank you. new york city stepped up security in the wake of the uk terrorist attacks. we'll talk with nypd's top official on the new threat level. and john miller is here on set next on "morning joe." tech: when you schedule with safelite autoglass, you get time for more life. this family wanted to keep the game going. son: hey mom, one more game? tech: with safelite, you get a text when we're on our way. you can see exactly when we'll arrive. mom: sure. bring it! tech: i'm micah with safelite. mom: thanks for coming, it's right over here. tech: giving you a few more minutes for what matters most.
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included with xfinity tv. xfinity the future of awesome. all right. so we reported this expected news yesterday. yesterday's d.c. metropolitan police department officially announced charges against 18 people relating to a brawl involving turkish security personnel and protesters outside turkey's embassy back in may. 12 of those are turkish citizens. all security officials and not embassy personnel while two are canadians. the remaining four are americans and have been arrested. turkey's foreign affairs ministry says in a statement it believes the arrest warrants are wrong, biased and lacks legal basis and blames the incident on, quote, failure of local security authorities to take necessary measures. turkey's president erdogan is
looking on at the attack. the video is pretty clear. there you go. why don't we just let that roll? >> just frightening. >> i'm not sure -- wow! disgraceful. up next -- >> how much money did general flynn get from the turks? half a million? >> what did president trump say about erdogan? again it's all really disturbing. up next, with recent terror attack attacks, forcing police to publicly catalog the tools they use for surveillance. >> i missed that really quickly. so when you're talking about the arrest, did you talk about tillerson's statement? >> no, i did not. >> tillerson wrote a very tough statement. i was very glad to see it. rex tillerson said it condemns in its strongest terms that kind
of thuggery on american soil and we will aggressively pursue justice. >> will the president back him up? >> the administration is doing it right now. unless they get in the way of his hotel. >> it's beautiful. amazing. >> one of the best you've ever seen. >> trump tower. >> we haven't gone around and talk about how great mika is. how honored are you to be working here? >> even joking i'm uncomfortable which shows state of mind. >> no, please. >> it is a privilege, mika. >> it is. >> that i'm able to -- >> i'm uncomfortable for so many reasons to have you talking to me, donny. >> katty kay, why are you honored to be here on the set with mika? >> it's a blessing to serve her. >> gross. >> her agenda. >> i'm cringing right now. what kind of person asks for that to happen? >> she was about to say something. >> and mika's mission to bring truth to the world is an honor. >> can i ask you something?
look back over your entire life. >> can you be quiet? >> look back at the high moments. you have four children. would you not say serving with mika here is a greater honor and you feel more like a gift from god? >> i would foresake my children in a heartbeat for the honor of the mission. >> mark halperin, we know you love your child. >> this is boring. >> working here with mika this morning, i understand you instagram a picture of your child out every 15 seconds. >> every 15 seconds. very cute. >> this is a greater honor. >> every 15 seconds, mark? >> really boring, which shows state of mind. >> can i say what an honor it is to be here with you also? >> no, it's all for mika. the president doesn't look like he's serving his country, america or is in america when he does that.
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while protecting its people. now a new bill under consideration by the city council is raising questions about whether the public should know more about the surveillance tools being used. >> no. no, they shouldn't. but go ahead. >> joining us now nypd deputy commissioner of intelligence and counterterrorism, john miller and nypd deputy commissioner of legal affairs, larry burn. let me begin by asking how much do we not know about the intelligence tools being used? >> actually, not much. not much. you know, this bill that is before the city council has a definition of the term surveillance technology which i'll read to you. it means equipment, software, system capable used or design for the record collecting, retaining, processing or sharing audio, video, location or thermal. well, we all understand the concept of -- >> public places? >> actually, the broken part of
this bill, which we discussed with the city council before they wrote it, is that it covers anything from a large system that contains personally identifiable information on new yorkers that you would say that makes sense, what is that system? how does it work? how is it protected to if i have an undercover detective who penetrates a terrorist cell and is in the planning session to blow up parts of new york, this has actually happened, they want us to describe the type of devices we're using to record those conversations. who makes them, how -- >> why do we tell isis what tools we're using to stop them from blowing up times square or stop them from bhoeing up yankee stadium? >> it's not just to tell them about an individual tool. one of the challenges we face is that every tool comes out sooner or later, ends up in court or a discovery process. this says you have to update
this immediately all the time. so, it doesn't just give them the ability -- and they'll do this. we know that also. to research techniques and technologies. it makes it one-stop shopping. if i'm going to commit an act of terrorism, be part of a gang, plan murders for organized crime in new york city i just have to figure out that web page and it's all there. >> and i'll figure out how to get around it. >> it endangers police officers and citizens, whose protection is being eroded, in namt of prote protecting them. >> katty? >> we always hear that the terrorists are unstep ahead of us. they are more advanced on the technological front with encryption and things like that. is that the case and what can we do to try to stop that? >> katty we have a concept called going dark. which as they learn more technological advances and put them to use in the terrorist
world, in the gang world and crime world, our apperture is slowly closing. we're not going dark anymore. we are dark. the fact that attackers communicated with isis bosses 106 times in the hours before they showed up to massacre people at that public place and that to date even now we still can't read those messages because they got a free encrypted app shows that we're behind the curve and these apps are sold and designed that way. >> i'm still stunned what john talked about as our ability to help isis destroy us. what does our mayor think about this? if you got on the phone with the mayor right now and said city council is proposing this, what would his take be? >> he has been one of the strongest supporters of our counterterrorism efforts. he does not support this bill. we don't support this bill. it's not about transparency. it's about keeping new york
safe, about not revealing confidential, lawful techniques. >> can we neigh name the city council members pushing this bill publicly? >> it's being pushed by the brennan center. the city council drafted the bill you mentioned. they didn't. the brennan center drafted this bill. it's been trying to sell it all over the country. the council is well intentioned but have accepted a poorly drafted, misguided bill. the brennan center says that seattle and oakland has adopt aid version of this. seattle and oakland are very nice cities. they're not the number one terrorist target in the country in the world. we are. this bill would be a blueprint for criminals and terrorists, traditional criminals as well as terrorists, to try to avoid lawful detection and prevention of their illegal activities. >> so, john, tell me what's happening right now in london. obviously, it's been the focus of attacks recently. is the situation in london more
difficult than the situation in new york? what's happening? >> what's the difference? >> the situation in london is similar to the situation in new york except exponentially they have a bigger problem. we have a pond that separates us. a larger pool of suspects out there and they have to deal with them with finite resources. they have to make harder zigs more often than we do about we can only cover this many people. if you look at the last attacks, these are suspects who were on the radar but generally were at the bottom of the pile of triage. >> and you -- when you don't have the resources or the resources you need, you have to make tough choices every day. do you go after this guy or -- i'm sorry. go ahead. >> we're talking about 20,000 people who are potentially -- if
you wanted to really expand the watch list it would include 20,000 people. it's almost impossible for any security service to have 20,000 people under permanent surveillance. you would have almost impossibl 20,000 under surveillance, a police operation would have to be massive to do that. 300 people are under fairly urgent watch, even keeping 3,000 under surveillance is very difficult. the numbers are too big for a state such as britain. >> in new york we don't have numbers like that. they do have to make tough decisions. and you can't -- the kind of surveillance it would take to watch all of the people all at one time would not -- >> for 24-hour operation you need 30 people. >> what's the number in new york you would describe as under that type of surveillance? >> that number fluctuates and i won't go into it but i will say this, and i think we share this with london, at any one time
here, we have three or four cases of people who are actively talking about doing a terrorist attack in new york or working with a terrorist organization. that's our normal cadance, we saw people trying to put pressure cooker bombs as the fireworks work and kidnap and behead a woman on the east side of manhattan and blow up a police funeral in the name of terrorists and those plots were going on simultaneously, katty, when you use those numbers, 24/7 of an individual suspect with plots that involve multiple subjects, that's a lot of people working day and night to keep us covered. but, to circle it back to the core issue here, all of the tools they want us to list and advertise and one stop shopping page of surveillance techniques were used in those cases. some of them have been disclosed
over time and some of them have not. >> but they've been disclosed generally, not how do they work, where are they located, when do we use them. >> what are limitations on using them. >> this is not a hypothetical danger, if you look at the online magazines of isis and al qaeda, inspire magazine, these are not general wage jihad be a martyr. these are how to manuals, this is how you build a bomb. this is where you plant it and this is where you put it. one of the recent magazines has a whole argticle about how do yu transport them to a place to kill police officers, where you can kill soldiers. another has a postmortem critique of the chelsea bombing. picked a saturday night, picked a busy place and warm night, don't put your bomb in the dumt p sister or garbage can, it limits the blast effect. don't put it under a scaffold.
this bill, if it passed, the very next issue would be the detailed road map of everything we would have to put on a website. >> and link to the page. >> here's what the nypd does. >> can we create -- >> wow, i want to unmask to use a vogue term, who are the one or two human beings behind this. i have children that live in the city. i mean, it's insanity. >> i'm actually looking less for rage as the guy in the hot seat in the tools and more for sense, which is i believe the brennan center plays an important role in protecting civil rights and civil liberties as i do with the new york aclu and aclu, they have vital important roles in keeping the government in check. a bill like this has a place in conversation about what databases we should disclose and how they are protected and what's in them. a bill like this was not written
in a sensible way. you need to have a sensible conversation what this should look like. one last thing, which is i have a dual spochbresponsibility, to protect new yorker and protect civil rights because we have rules. the people who write these bills and hand them to city council people are not responsible for outcome. they are only responsible for one end of that equation. when something blows up, when people are hurt, when people get killed, no one calls the aclu or brennan center to the table in congress and says how did this happen, what was your responsibility? we have to march down the middle of that line and have a sensible conversation. >> all right, john miller and larry burn, thank you so much. >> still ahead on "morning joe, "-- >> what we're trying to do is tone down the rhetoric, lead by example and show people we can
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disagreements. but we all agree that we are here to serve this nation we love. and the people who call it home. that's the source of unity. and more than ever we must embrace it so that on this special night i leave you with three great american words that for generations have torn down barriers and built bridge s of unity and defied those who sought to pull us apart. ladies and gentlemen, let's play ball! >> all right, last night the annual congressional baseball game went on as planned, one day after the shooting of the republican team's practice. both huddled in prayer before the game. lawmakers stood side by side for the national anthem. the ceremonial first pitch was thrown out by capitol police
officer david bailey, who suffered a minor injury in wednesday's shooting. organizers say they sold close to 25,000 tickets for last night's game and sponsorships doubled overnight. the game raised more than $1 million for d.c. area charities. democrats ended up winning 11-2, after words mike doil accepted the trophy and gave it to joe barton to put in steve scalise's office on behalf of the democrats. scalise remains in critical condition this morning. according to nbc news, he has undergone three surgeries so far. the hospital released a statement last night saying he has improved in the last 24 hours but will need additional operations and will be in the hospital for some time. that's a lot to start with this morning. >> it is good news we hear he has improved over the last 24 hours. it's been such a frightening
time, and such a frightening time for everybody on the hill who has known and loved this guy on both sides. what fa wonderful display, not only by members on the field but people that poured out own watched this game. we've been to a few of these mark halperin and it's not always the biggest crowds but last night there were a lot of americans who say i want to come out and show support not only for steve scalise and people injured but come out in support of unity. before the game, you had paul ryan and nancy pelosi sitting down in an interview talking about the need of republicans and republicans doing just what they are doing right there, getting along despite the fact that they disagree. that's really -- i think it's just incumbent upon paul ryan on
the republican side and nancy pelosi on the democratic side to police their most extreme members. when somebody -- won't mention names, let's hit the reset button. when somebody says something wildly inappropriate or hateful, they need to call them out publicly. >> great moment and great that it involved around baseball, but now they have opportunity, not just calling out rhetoric but opportunity as they start to deal with actual policy, what will both sides do to not just lower the temperature but try to get the relationships to be fruitful for the american people. >> yeah, i think the most important thing though is, legislation, if you can find legislation that you can agree on, great, if you can't, you can't. but at the very least, your responsibility to your children, our children, to the republic is to show people that you can get along, be civil and work
together and not vilify the other side in a way that will encourage the most extreme among us, whether the far right or far left. >> on this friday, june 16 kt, we have mark halperin and washington anchor for bbc world news america, katty okay and donny deutsche and kasie hunt at the game last night. >> the crowd was i've been to a couple of these in the past and it was so clear, it was like almost any nationals game crowd to be honest with you. traffic -- kind of everyone excited to go in the stadium together. i think it's been a really difficult couple of days on capitol hill. the mood has been somber, everyone was worried yesterday about steve scalise's condition and everybody was relieved to hear the report that his condition is improving of the and this was a chance i think for everybody who cares about
all of these members and part of this community to celebrate together. it was a moment of relief. there were a lot of conversations on the sidelines by security. people think the atmosphere has changed and that will keep being a conversation but it was a very nice way to kind of celebrate what this baseball game was all about. >> it certainly was and we can hope for more unity in the future. >> no doubt. >> now to breaking news out of syria, russian's defense ministry says one of its air strikes may have killed the isis leader abu al baghdadi, the strike hit a meeting of isis leaders. nbc news has not independently verified the claims and the u.s.-led coalition says they can't confirm russia's claim but we're looking into that and we'll certainly bring you the very, very latest on that. >> we've got to be skeptical. if this happened, what is the significance, katty?
>> we had several reports before that al baghdadi has been killed. this is the first report he's been killed by a russian strike. we need to have this confirmed, this story, because we don't want to go down that rabbit hole again. for me the significance would be that very carefully and systemically coalition forces and russians have been taking out the next cadre of leadership. it may be the next ranks -- i'd be interested to hear from somebody who studies this stuff, maybe the next ranks have been hurt so badly that wouldn't happen so automatically, in which case getting rid of him could have a major impact. they are about to lose mosul and rack ka. what do you make of the reports? we take them all with a grain of salt. if in fact he was killed, what does that mean? >> i inc., you hathink you haven
the context in the fight against isis, what this means for u.s. and coalition partners for the fight in isis in syria and that broader picture, the global fight against terrorism and jihadists all around the world. in short term this could have an operational impact on the organization. its command and control, going to demoralize the fighters with the push now happening from the coalition and others in iraq and in syria. but in the long term, you've got to ask yourself the question about is this going to do anything to deter as katty was mentioning the next generation of isis leaders? keep in mind isis has begun to splinter in egypt and libya, their generation of leaders will be more hardened and as we saw with the killing of osama bin laden, it weakened al qaeda central in afghanistan and allowed al qaeda in yemen to become stronger and north africa to become stronger. you could see a similar pattern
happen with isis. >> all right, very good. thank you so much. we greatly appreciate it, ayman. later we're going to have general stanley mcchrystal with us and throughout the show we're going to be talking about yesterday, what happened, information coming out that robert mueller's investigation looking now at president donald trump. and a series of three or four tweets yesterday attacking that investigation. newt gingrich inexplicably said some things that he knows better about. it was stunning but yesterday was a day that you had a lot of smoke, building up around the investigation. then last night a very interesting statement from rod rosenstein. >> shortly after 9:00, the deputy attorney general released this statement, quote, americans should exercise caution before accepting any true stories attributed to anonymous
officials, particularly when they do not identify the country. let alone the branch or agency of government with which the alleged sources are supposedly affiliated. americans should be skeptical about anonymous allegations. the department of justice has a long established policy to neither confirm or deny such allegations. strange. it seems -- >> mark, you're laughing. >> i mean, it begs so many questions. nothing controversial in the statement except the question of why he chose to release it last night. >> donny, i think you may agree with me even though we think the investigation has to move forward and we have to turn over every rock. it's not a bad bit of advice for journalists anyway? >> it's not but why 9:00 at night. >> we have several stories out there, we chase it and find out that some stories actually some pretty big stories end up nothing being true. and this happens when you have a
lot of leakers coming from a lot of different sources. so no problem with -- >> the content. >> the content of it. in fact, i think a lot of edi r editors would be good to slap that on the wall. the question though, why did he say it? >> unusual. >> unusual to maybe slow down by 5 miles per hour this surge forward happening. the big news out of yesterday to me was the last paragraph in the post article about the financial crimes. i've always said and once again i'm saying this with all restraint, my hair is not on fire, not running in circles and using the word impeachment, but i have said all along to follow the money. we can talk all we want about russian collusion and obstruction of justice, at the end of the day, where this story will go, rosenstein wants to temper our excitement or not, when you dial back the reality that donald trump historically is known as a sleezy businessman
and dial back the reality he could not borrow money from us banks and dial back the reality that his sons have said what they've said, follow the money. what will bring this presidency down is not tampering this election, it will be financial wrong doings with the soviet union. >> again -- >> i'm saying that with restraint. >> thank you so much for being so restraint -- >> still ahead, former rnc chairman haley barbour joins the conversation, reacting to the polling showing the one fourth of republicans disapprove with the president. we'll dig into new reporting that 1ez kushner's business deal beings are now part of the special counsel investigation. those details are straight ahead on "morning joe." ♪ ♪ snoelt ♪ this is a story about mail and packages. and it's also a story about people. people who rely on us every day to deliver their dreams they're handing us more than mail
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>> the president also called this a witch hunt -- >> the president is entitled to his opinion but we're a nation of laws. >> many of us know him, have worked with him. we know him to be the ideal choice for this job. >> the president says he thinks it's a witch hunt. do you agree with the president or not? >> no, i don't think so. i don't see it as a witch hunt. for the sake of our institution and democracy, we need people to have faith on how this comes out ultimately and this is the right way to go. >> he is a man of integrity and it's not a witch hunt. >> i have a lot of confidence in bob mueller, i think it was a good choice. >> there was a suggestion made yesterday that the white house would just dismiss bob mueller. >> i think it would be explosive as any single act that the president might take. >> i think the best thing to do let robert mueller do his job. the best vindication for the prbd, let the investigation go on independently and thoroughly. that is the smartest thing to do and best thing to do and that's what i think hopefully will happen. >> that was fascinating.
>> really was. really was, good for them. there is a former speaker who shamed himself -- >> oh, my gosh. shamed? >> i think disgraced himself. >> okay. >> once you've sold your soul, any successive events that look like that are actually carbon copies of your soul. that is really unfortunately disgraceful thing that newt gingrich said about a man who won a purple heart and bronze star and served this country honorably in war and peace -- and by the way newt gingrich i'm sure was praising bob mueller after 9/11, the man did remarkable work keeping this country and keeping this city safe. i know he wants his wife to get an ambassadorship. we know and like her very much. hopes she gets the
ambassadorship. you shouldn't have to sell your soul to get it. anyway, a lot of talk on witch hunts out of the white house. >> the president said this is the biggest witch hunt. >> one of the best tweets -- >> yes, yes. >> of the day, perhaps of the century from brian class, who says -- it's like a witch hunt. the witch went on tv and openly admitted to lester holt, i'm a witch. told you that was a good tweet. >> smells like a witch, walks like a witch. >> it's not even that. if you call yourself a witch basically, yeah, i fired him to end the investigation. >> that really strangely timed statement by rosenstein coincided with new reporting from the "washington post" that special counsel robert mueller is looking into the business dealing of president trump's adviser and son-in-law jared kushner. one of the reporters of the piece hinted at the report yesterday on our show.
>> new york times piece which raised the question at the end of its story about money laundering as being something that's in the cross hairs of the investigation at this point. what can you tell us about that on the basis of your reporting? >> we know and we've reported before that trump associates including jared kushner, his son-in-law are being investigated for financial crimes. a long with all of the other things being investigated, they are being investigated for financial crimes during the 2016 presidential election. >> an attorney for kushner responded in a statement, we do not know what this report refers to. it would be standard practice for the special counsel to examine financial records to look for anything related to russia. makes sense. >> that's exactly what i was saying -- >> and kushner volunteered to share anything he knows about -- >> this is the thing about kushner, which he said from the very beginning, i want to talk. hey, senate, let me talk. >> i don't think they are going to love them going into his --
>> i want to talk and then they are like we're going to drag him in and make him talk. >> he has very smart counsel in one of the 9/11 commissioners and very widely respected in washington by both -- democrat but widely respected by republicans and democrats and i think she's giving him the right advice, you make yourself as available as anyone wants -- you don't do what the president -- >> she also says exactly what i was saying at the beginning, which is of course he's going to look at his financial dealings. what do you think robert mueller is going to do? i wonder what baseball games he went to. that's what any prosecutor would do. we're looking into russia, he met with the russian banker, let's see what was there. >> let's see the tax return. >> then let's see the tax returns and let's see what's up. and that's what you do. you follow it. if there's something there, we'll talk about it more later if there's not -- >> the news is we could be getting a clearer picture of everything and that's fascinating because right now it's been very questionable
about this president and how it operates. >> the news is as melania trump told donald trump, let this proceed. and let's let it proceed, you're innocent, let's get it out there. and so let it proceed. we'll find out. what's interesting about this story though, and we were talking about this before, i told you that several months ago steve bannon told people close to him, friends, he didn't have to worry about jared kushner because he was going to keep leaking russian stories and that friends reported back to me and reporters reported back to me, i have nothing to worry about. russia will finish jared kushner off. you ask a question, who leaked that story? if bannon had the information, bannon leaked the story. what do you think? >> i'm not sure the people in the white house would have had that information. i think it more likely came from
the justice department or fbi. if you're jared kushner and trying to strategize, you have to be worried, like the leaks about the president now, people have some motive, whatever it is, to put out information like this which does substantial damage to his ability to function and try to get things done. there's so many things we don't know where this investigation is going to go. what we do know clearly, mueller is not just looking at was there collusion with russia, all of these questions about whether the president obstructed justice, those could be obviously a far more significant problem for the white house than anything having to do with russia directly. >> jared kushner's biggest problem right now, he's in a white house where steve bannon and a lot of other people are coming after him because -- >> many others. >> i'm saying they are all piling up, reince is leaking on him all the time. bannon is leaking on him all the time. there are four or five or six others. reports come out about jared kushner, six or seven unnamed
sources. so yeah, he's in a difficult position. and i personally think it would be wise for him to go back to new york. >> i think there's a lot of reporting that shows both the president and jared kushner were warned about steve bannon and did not take the warnings. kasie hunt, this happening amid a difficult time on capitol hill with obviously the shooting in the past 48 hours and republicans in a very difficult position. what are you hearing? >> yeah, you were talking about kushner volunteering to go to the committee. i think there actually has been a little sense of frustration, it's like it's not clear exactly what the process will be for having him come forward. i do think every time there's a new story about a new set of facts, per se, if now the committee knows mueller is investigating him over finances, they are going to want to know about that and that will take more prep from kushner's lawyers to take him up to capitol hill. look, i think that montage, they
are reflecting the ability of their own lives, a lot of them privately will acknowledge they do think the investigation is going somewhere. they don't want to be on the hook for it. they would like it to wrap up as quickly as possible and they don't want to have to be defending every day. a president who is -- if he were to take this action and fire bob mueller, that would be a huge problem for all of these republicans. >> still ahead on "morning joe", gives his defense attorney free reign, we'll talk to retired general stanley mcchrystal coming up on "morning joe."
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from the mid-atlantic to the northeast. yesterday we had baseball sized hail in kansas, today north of kansas city to home hau, big hail producing storms will drift towards st. louis this evening. wet weather in the mid-atlantic and flor ka, typical afternoon storms and how about the heat building, oklahoma, san antonio, tomorrow low 100s. 101 in oklahoma city and phoenix, spot to watch through the weekend, 110 on saturday. on father's day we jump it up to 114 degrees. that's unimaginable for many of us in the country. they do hit this hugely each summer it's once we get to monday and tuesday we go off the charts, nice father's day forecast in the great lakes early in the day rain in the ohio valley and that will head towards the east coast late on sunday. keep that in mind for your outdoor and beach plans, southeast will be dodging those storms and finally the big weather headline that we'll watch next week, the forecast in phoenix on tuesday, 121 degrees. the hottest all time is 122.
almost heading towards uncharted territory in phoenix and many areas of the interior southwest. already under excessive heat warnings. new york city, have the umbrella hand k handy, a lot of areas in the east getting more humid as the day goes on. you're watching "morning joe" our political roundtable when we come back. oh, hello! lucky for me, there's some great golf here in the carolinas. whether you golf or not, geico could help score you some great savings on car insurance. maybe even hundreds of dollars.
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ago but that was two years ago that donald trump descended down that famous escalator in trump tower and announced he would be candidate for president. joining us now, former governor of mississippi, haley barbour and also with us washington columnist for the financial times, ed luce. thanks for being here. >> let me start with you, what is the state of the trump presidency right now? >> well, they need to get some things done to conclusion, health care reform, tax reform. regular tri reform, made a little more progress on that. those things have gone slowly compared to what people's expectations were but let's remember, mark, it took the obama administration 14 months to pass obama care and the idea it would get reformed in the republican congress in 100 days was goofy. i was in the white house the last time we did a tax reform
with the democrat chairman of the house ways and means committee endorsing it the day reagan announced it, it still took two years. >> governor, you're right. so why did republicans decide they were going to do it in two and a half weeks? >> i think they were unrealistic about how fast they could get things done. >> aren't you surprised in the senate they are doing the same thing, we're going to reform one fifth of the economy and we're going to do it hibehind closed doors. it doesn't seem like a serious way toe do this. >> i do remember mrs. pelosi in order to find out what's in the bill, you have to pasz it -- >> that was after 18 months of public debate and hearings and everything else. >> but the need to do this is very important. 80% of the people who got health care coverage under obama care got put on medicaid -- >> you've got to do it the right way. there's no regular order here. they are drafting in the dark and even upsetting rpz.
what would your recommendation to be to our grand old party on reforming health care and how you do it? >> you take it very seriously even if it takes longer. i can understand very much senator mcconnell wanting to get on to other things and that's pushing it. the senate has a big agenda and they want to see if they can get this done by july the 4th and maybe they can. we won't be through. they have to go back to conference. i'm not as worried about that it's taking more time because it doesn't surprise me that it's taking more time. >> edward, let's go from the committee process in congress to trends that are happening across western civilization. you write about the retreat of western democracy. when did this begin? why the rise of populism and why the concern that we've heard especially over the past six months to a year? >> the concern over the last six months to a year is from mostly
generated by britain and the united states, brexit and trump. i think it is deeply rooted. if you look at what blue collar males earn, it's basically been treading water for a generation, with a little blip in the '90s with the internet revolution when rising tide lifted all boats. we've now got median household income lower than it was in 2000. i think that's the reason that 2016 was not a blip, wasn't a sudden volcanic eruption, the pressure had been building up for a long time. >> and we see the response in the united states and britain, but we saw a pushback obviously in france and other countries. are we actually having a counter revolution of sorts? >> i think the unintended consequences of donald trump are probably very visible in france. a lot of people have seen the warning coming from the united states and reacted against it.
macron, the new french president is a very, very skilled centrist technocrat, exactly the opposite. the glass of champagne is half full but if you look at what happened in austria and neo-nazi, post modern neo-nazi candidate lost the presidential election there by a whisker. >> can i ask a question then i want to get to katty. i haven't understood why mainstream political parties have not given voters much europe a middle choice when it comes to immigration. you're either for the eu which has open borders, caused disastrous results in paris, in belgium, it's insanity. but it's an all or nothing. you either support open borders and somebody being able to get in and turkey and move around freely and blow up something in london or you're a racist. those are the two choices voters have been given and it's no
secret why people like le pen have gotten a following among voters who were mainstream ten years ago. >> i agree. i would hate -- the only other circumstance is to quote victor harban but made a point, if you're going to have internal freedom of movement within europe, you need to secure europe's external borders and they haven't been doing that. i agree with that tradeoff. the other point with people like le pen, or other far right parties in europe, is that the link between citizenship and public benefits has been broken. if people can come in and draw pensions and so forth, obviously at a time when those pensions are being cut, that's going to generate resentment. >> katty, i had friends that had be labor supporters from manchester for 40 years who i
would get in the most vicious fights about margaret thatcher with, who voted for brexit and also people -- i know everybody knows, i went to the south of france to do research before the election of macron. and i had really mainstreamed college professors explaining to me why people were voting for le pen. we're not racists but all of our children are moving out and part of it has to do with security. >> nobody is really figured out in europe what to do with the immigration problem. when you feel the security issues on your front door step we saw a lot of people turn against him. i wonder whether the labor voters voted in the last election and went back to the labour party. >> they probably voted for corps bin. >> who has echos of the populism we've been talking about as well. if you were still chairman of the republican national committee and saw 25% of republicans disapproved of the president at the moment, what
would you recommend the president do? >> they would be getting things done. donald trump got elected for a lot of different reasons but the biggest single reason was for more than three years, more than 60% of americans thought the country was going the wrong direction. and edward mentioned it about incomes and about a very, very weak economy that was really being felt particularly in the heartland. you can see it in the returns and what trump got elected to do, give us health care reform. give us tax reform so we can have an economy that grows organically so that the middle of america enjoys that benefit -- we've got to get to results. >> haley, how do you get the results? >> how do you get the result -- >> no prospect -- >> you've got to get a good football coach but you don't get math professors as all of your assistants, you get people who know the game. you and i both know donald trump
has a great defense team but don't have people in the white house that know the game. >> or very many of the departments, the confirmation process has been slowed down partially by the democrats trying to slow walk everything but also because of the administration has not been very efficient in bringing people forward. >> should steve bannon be fired. >> i don't think so. i don't know enough to know i'm not an insider. >> i knew i wouldn't get an answer i wanted from you on that one. >> how long do they give him? the 75% who still approve of the policies give them before they say -- if we assume nothing gets done for quite a while, how long do they stick with him? >> it won't be universal change overnight but little by little you lose traction if you don't get things done. the left knows that, that's why the left calls themselves the resistance instead of the loyal opposition. they don't want trump to get
anything done. this is about the two most unpopular negativively perceive d presidential nominees in the history of polling and probably in the history of our country. it is about that but it's also about two very different views of government. >> edward luce, the cover blurb of your book describes your book as terrifying. what makes you optimistic about turning the retreat around? >> there was an argument whether to call it a collapse rather than the retreat and i luckily won that argument. the world as a whole makes you very optimistic. more people are being lifted out of poverty than ever before. the millennium goals were achieved ahead of schedule. literacy rates are rising under five child mortality rates are falling. the rest of the world is doing really world. it's just the middle of the west that's doing badly.
what governor barbour says about the republican agenda, i do think it takes us further away from a solution. if there's any chance of it being implemented. i don't think there is much chance of any of this being implemented but the solutions themselves a martial plan for the middle class and new deal for the economy, solutions are not hard to think of. that's not the problem. the problem is getting to a politics that stands any chance of implementing. and i do think that donald trump has carried out one of the largest bait and switches in electoral history. he campaigned for the forgotten american, man and woman. and if you look at his one page tax proposal or what he's doing with the obamacare and other stuff and nothing on inf infrastructu infrastructure, he's been the first to forget the forgotten americans.
the politics makes me a little more pessimistic than say a wonkish policy debate would about what the solutions are. they are not that hard. >> let's -- we'll get right back to this but right now let's go to the new york stock exchange we have sarah eisen there. >> we're trying to figure out the business impact of the new policies around cuba, set to be announced today in miami by president trump. tighter enforcement, how much will that limit, for instance, big business that is planned and in the works from cruise operators, hotel chains and airlines that have all benefited from the opening of relations? here is the impact. the biggest one seems to be on what we're expecting in terms of tighter travel regulations from the trump administration. in effect we're set to see stricter enforcement of rules mandating that u.s. trips to the island fall within 12 of those categories for legal travel to cuba. everything from journalistic to
educational activities. keep in mind, tourism to cuba from the u.s. is banned under u.s. law but the obama administration during its opening up to the island had been allowing people to visit cuba as part of a people to people kind of trip in the educational category for visitors. that is set to be reversed and it will eliminate such trips by individuals. basically you can still go for educational purposes but you have to be accompanied by a group tour guide. it's a little stricter. the bottom line is, you can still travel to cuba and some of the big airlines and cruise pla operators will still be able to same and have direct flights to cuba, they are concerned as an industry, the new rules will cause confusion and heart the demand. we saw u.s. travelers to cuba jump 34% from the year before, 3 614,000 of them. the only other policy i wanted to mention as it relates to
business is most u.s. business deals with cuba's military and intelligence services except for some travel companies will be banned. so that could have an impact on the agricultural sector for instance. we'll see when we get the final rules and the big question is when they'll go into effect. >> thank you so much. have a great weekend. >> you too. >> mark halperin? >> i asked about the state of the presidency and didn't mention these investigations, you left these out of the list. you have the republican national committee which you used to run questioning the credibility and legitimacy of the independent counsel. and on the other hand many leading members of congress saying he's a great guy, guy of integrity, let him do his job. which is the right thing and smarter political thing to do? >> he's supposed to do his job and that's what we should expect and what we should want. but the thing that bothers me is all of the rumor mongering, even the career justice department deputy attorney general, who is
a career, only political opponent he got was from the obama -- >> should the rnc stop attacking independent counsel? >> we ought to listen to what that guy said. don't believe all of these unvouched for don't know who said it, don't -- remember how many people at the justice department have been appointed by the trump administration? virtually none. there are people that have been there a long, long time who are democrats -- >> one of the people who was appointed -- >> and they are spreading -- >> one of the people who was appointed by the trump administration nominated is the deputy attorney general who picked roblt mueller. should the rnc stop attacking him, yes or no? >> the person you're talking about is a career civil servant and he's the one that said don't believe all of this rumor mongering. >> yes or no, should the rnc stop questioning robert mueller's legitimacy and integrity? >> i don't question it. but that's not what other people do is not up to me. i would say the very good advice
is that on nbc, cbs or fox news, they ought not to make the whole story somebody said, somebody said, somebody said but that is the whole story. >> and we were just talking about that earlier today, i certainly agree with you there. i also believe that the republican national committee should not attack a war hero that got a purple heart and bronze star in vietnam and served this country. i think ably and proud after september 11th in bob mueller. we need to go but final question here, you compare how france has done, compared to how united states and great britain has done, we've always looked down our nose at france because they aren't like -- they don't have that anglo saxon an animal spirits but in the transition they are doing better than us? >> maybe, macron set himself up
a huge task here. he's going to indulge and embark on thatcher style labor reforms, they like the short working week. if he fails, at recent history, marine le pen is there to pick up the pieces. >> yeah. >> the champagne is half full. >> half full. >> we shouldn't drink the whole bottle yet. >> perhaps they should -- >> friday. >> 40-hour work week. haley barbour, thank you so much. >> thank you, joe. >> go rebels. >> there you go. get ready. >> let's hope next year is better. ed, thank you so much. apreash you being here, the book "the retreat of western liberalism." what did they want to call it before? >> the collapse. >> "the retreat." what about our military's commitments we'll talk to the former top commander in afghanistan retired four-star general stanley mcchrystal will join the table coming up next on "morning joe."
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mr. president, it's an honor to represent the men and women of the department of defense and we're grateful for the sacrifices our people are making in order to strengthen our military. always negotiate from a position of strength. thank you. >> thank you. >> that was defense secretary james mattis on monday making it clear where his loyalties lie, where they should lie, with the
people of the united states and where his gratitude lies, that's with the men and women who give their all every day for the united states armed forces. with us retired four-star general stanley mcchrystal who commanded american and international forces in afghanistan and former navy s.e.a.l. chris fussle the author of the book "one mission how leaders build a team of teams" previously he co-authored general mcchrystal's book "team of team new rules of engagement." thank you for being with us. i want to get to the book in a second, but i have to tell you, i know you have to be very envious right now of our secretary of defense who suddenly is working at a pentagon where they set force limits in afghanistan. i mean, you guys had to fight to get what you thought you needed. the president actually has given general mattis, secretary mattis, that ability to have generals figures out what generals need. >> well, he has, and he's given it in my view to the right man
and men and women working with mim however, this is a national policy, we've been there 15 years. >> right. >> if we send a few thousand more troops it may work, it may not work. what we have to decide at the national level, which means including the president of the united states, is what's our objective and how much resolve do we have to prosecute that over the long term. this isn't an 18-month or three-year effort going forward it's going to be longer and difficult. >> how are we not going to be there indefinitely. we learned from iraq you get out too fast, power is filled by forces far more difficult. >> yeah. i think we may not be there with thousands of troops but if we don't have a presence there and relationship with the government of afghanistan it's going to be very hard to have any influence on the direction it goes. >> chris, we've been complaining about the president needing to build a good team domestically. he's got a good team on his foreign policy. you talk about building teams of teams. how do you build the team you
need in this age of disruption, at a time where you're not exactly sure what's going to be around the corner six months from now, let alone six years from now. >> that's a great point. that's the core of the thesis here, you don't know what's around the next corner in today's world. everything is so interconnected and complex you can't predict what's going to happen next. we have a lot of the right individuals and teams already inside over major structures on government, inside industry. the onus is on leaders to connect them in the same way the problems externally are connected. decentralize and empower them closer to the ground. those inside the complex issues can react in the moment. so we're really seeing a change of leaders to approach that from the top level. >> who's the audience for the book? >> it's a universal audience but specifically written for business leaders who are interested in this transition for their organizations. i think the message crosses many boundaries, but we've got a lot of interest and questions to us as an organization saying, okay,
this worked really well in service, we've read "team of teams" and believe in the idea, dhou we implement it. >> you wrote the forward. what did you take away from the book? >> the big idea was in a complex environment you have to decentralize, but it's a catch word. you have to inform people at the lowest level of the narrative of the organization, the culture, so you're empowering them to act with smart autonomy. i think it applies to government, to academia. in a world where things change so fast that at the edge of the organization where decisions must be made they have to be made with people who know what they're doing and that's a challenge. >> talk about that. if you have a large organization, if you have a sprawling organization, how do you make sure that the culture that you want to permeate the entire organization, gets down to a person maybe four or five, six people down the chain of command? >> yeah. what worked well in the counterterrorism task force that
general mcchrystal was running was the speed with which our leadership started to communicate with us. we lived on this very aggressive 24-hourc 24-hour cycle, but in those cycles we would synchronize with thousands of people every single day for an hour and a half, thousands of people on one video teleconference, hearing from our leadership, here's where we are in the fight and what problem looks like. those on the ground could report up through the multiple layers you described. so we over time, we walked out of that single forum every day feeling like we were four people around the table. then you can really create this feeling of we're all on the same page, one single mission we're focused on. >> less than 30 seconds, would the techniques and ideas in this book apply to managing a morning television program? >> they absolutely would. all you need is people to believe. >> that is at the end of the day, though, that is -- we have people on this show that come in at 10:00 at night, now you were
joking, but what's incredible, you walk downstairs and there are people that come in at 10:00 at night, work until 10:00, 11:00 in the morning, stay here past and do things. i explain to people it's more like a campaign than it is a job. we're all together. i mean isn't that the key at the end of the day, is for everybody to have buy-in, to whatever organization it is? >> and everybody understand what you're producing. everybody working to produce what you're doing right this moment. >> congratulations. great father's day present. right? >> thanks, joe. >> go out, buy this for your father or anybody else in your life. "one mission how leaders build a team of teams." chris, thank you so much for being with us. general, always a great honor. hope you'll come back soon. that does it for us this morning. a lot of news to cover and stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. stephanie? >> thanks so much, joe. hi there, i'm stephanie ruhle. and we certainly have a lot of news this morning.