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tv   All In With Chris Hayes  MSNBC  June 22, 2017 5:00pm-6:01pm PDT

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shares. >> solar panel walls that donald trump is talking about. one of the people behind it. if bruce blakeman ran for senate, for congress, once ran with a talking duck. >> thank you. tonight on "all in,". >> the senate bill sucks. >> the senate revisa its secret health care bill. a massive tax cut for the wealthy and huge cuts to medicaid. >> these cuts are blood money. >> you want to rush it through. admit the consequences. tonight, what with those campaign promises? >> i am not going to cut medicare or medicaid. >> i am going to take care of everybody. >> republicans get the votes to pass it. >> everyone said they were still open to changes.
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i believe we canett it done. >> then new revelations about the president's obsession with the russia investigation. and the truth behind the tweet that launch ad special counsel. >> i hope there are tapes. >> good evening from new york. now we know why they were keeping it secret. senate republicans released their long-awaited bill. despite the promise that's he had heart and protect medicaid and make sure everyone is covered, here's the reality. publics are fundamentally seeking to give tax cut to the wealthy. the senate bills mean that low income americans pay higher prices for skimpier plans with higher deductibles. while obamacare redribbled billions from the rich to the poor and sick, the house health
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bills redistrict from the poor and sick to the rich. even arguing the bill would recommend the largest transfer of resources from poor to rich in american history. that is the bill president trump supports despite all his promises. the president tweeting late today to make it full. i am very supportive of the senate health care bill. look forward to making it really special. he then added falsely, remember, obamacare is dead. >> at the capitol, police arrested 43 from the disability rights, they staged what they call the die-in in the russell senate office building. >> what the republicans and the senate are trying to do now is to put us back in nursing homes institutions. i am just the same person i was before i became disabled. if you were born with a disability, you still have the right to live. and to be free. and to be able to enjoy life.
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>> the former president obamaer the sharpest on any issue saying it is not a health care bill. sill reply put if there's a chance you might get sick, get old or start a family, this bill will do you harm. under the guise of making these bills easier to stomach, cannot change the fundamental meanness at the core of the legislation. >> these cuts are blood money. people will die. let's be very clear. senate republicans are paying for tax cuts for the wealthy. with american lives of will. >> the bill was drafted without input from democrats or many stake holders, like the aarp and the american hospital association which all lambasted the proposal. the architect of the bill plans to hold a vote on it next week after the release of the cbo score and before the senate goes
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on recess. that would mean there would be at most eight days for the senate to consider a bill drafted entirely if secret that would remake 1/6 of the economy. the house passed the bill which has the same basic underlying structure. a new nbc news "wall street journal" poll finds just 16% of americans believe the bill is a good idea. 48%, three times as many, say it is a bad idea. there are 52 republicans in the senate with democrats united in opposition to the bill. they can only lose or two or three votes and still get to it pass. alaska senator lisa murkowski who complained this morning that she hadn't seen the bill text because she isn't a reporter or a lobbyist said she needed more time to digest it. >> i'm not going to tell you
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what i'm going to do before i know what i'm going to do. i think it is incumbent upon me to do my due diligence. that's what the folks expect me to do. >> i am joined by the former head of the task force. your reaction to the senate? >> i think you summed it up pretty well. it is very similar to the house bill. they moved to it a little to the left to get some of the moderates in the senate. we'll see how it scores. it will probably be at least 20 million, maybe more, losing insurance. the basic concept. this is a mass transit of about a trillion dollars from the poor and sick to the rich. >> that part of it, i think, it is really key to me that folks understand. there is a different independent thing that don't have to be together but are. there are the exchanges which they set up and all this attention paid to. and then there's medicaid and how it is funded and how big it
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is. those don't have to be connected. right? >> a couple points. they don't have to be connected. number two, you could fix the problems of exchanges. which are legitimate. much more. there are two parts to the medicaid cuts. there's cutting the and packs that was part of the aca but also massive cuts for traditional medicaid that were part of the plan. when you add it up, the house bill plus the trump budget would cut in it half over what it would be over the next ten years. >> what do you say to people, michael burgess, a doctor, a republican lawmaker. who says, oh, it's not a cut. we're just changing the rate of growth. >> you play with numbers. it's true that medicaid spending would go up. but medical inflation is faster than general inflation. more and more people need it.
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fewer and fewer people would be covered. remember, it's not the just for the poor. medicaid is the single biggest health program we have in this country. it is responsible for half the babies in this country are paid for by medicaid. we've never unraveled a social program of this magnitude in our history. >> and he was talking about something he dreamed about at college keg parties. this kind of change to medicaid. that says that that can't be about the ac $a. because it didn't exist when he was in college. that's a vision independence of it. >> he is determined to change the entitlements. he want to put all these programs. trump won't let him put it in a box yet. what he wants is to put it all in a box so there's a limited at of resources.
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whatever is spent is spent and that's it. >> if the country, one of the things that's important to note, we have had a long expansion we have not had to encounter what it looks like since then. and needs changes during those periods of time. budgets contract and you can set yourself up for some ugly choices. >> needs change. but also, remember, we have massive changes in income equality. so while equality as a whole has expanded, it has actually gotten worse. so people having basic health care. >> thank you. i'm joined by the health care adviser to mitt romney's campaign, saying that if it passes, it would be a great achievement in my lifetime. and fired from that position after suggesting the trump administration was sabotaging
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obamacare. let me start with you. i was somewhat surprised that you said that about this bill. and i want to start on the tax side. >> so i understand of anything it is doing, the exchanges and the individual market. i think people have a hard time saying why $600 million. if you're making a million dollars, you will see $50,000 more a year. why is that so central? what is the rationale? >> if you're reducing federal spending over a long period of time, it is worth while to reduce tax burden. that leads the growth and jobs for a lot of people. >> we don't know if that's true. but if it is so concentrated, you could really reduce the tax burden in a much more widespread way. you didn't just have to cut it for millionaires and
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billionaires. the richest households, it just seems a little hard to stomach. the vast majority of taxes are paid by rich people. if you reduce taxes just by math, those tax reductions will fall on upper income people. but that doesn't mean they're bad from a policy standpoint. on the other side, the tax credits that will be offered to the uninsured are substantially improved from what the house bill did. as you know, i have a harsh critic of the house bill. it had this tax credit in which people who were really poor and people with six-figure incomes would get the same amount. it is income based. not sgluft income based. in a place like texas, it will add millions more people with
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health insurance than do today. >> that seems impossible. >> how so? when you have a state that didn't expand medicaid. where now the tax credits will apply to all those individuals that would have gotten the medicaid expansion, you will see a massive influx of coverage in places like texas and florida. >> there's not enough to make it work into the long term. you can't have more coverage. and doctor, maybe you can respond here. do you think it is incredible, a person who ran the insurance coil, that you'll have more coverage over, say, a ten-ee window? >> in a state like texas or florida where you did not have expansion in medicaid, there will be a small increase in coverage. but remember overall across the country, tens of millions of people are going to lose their insurance. so to give a tax cut to 3 million people, we're going to take insurance away from 20 million people? that doesn't sound like an
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american concept to me. >> and that's interesting. there are interesting geographical distributions, are to the point of the president today saying obamacare is dead. this is something when you look at the arguments being made on behalf of this bill, they seem to be about the fact the status quo is dead, dying. is that true? >> no. i think the affordable care act has provided a lot of insurance for a lot of people. the instability in the marketplace has been generated by republican actions. especially the issues around the cost sharing reductions. these things could be fixed. and i agree with the previous speaker. we need to fix the exchanges. what we'll do is we'll gut medicaid. for 50 years congress has had a
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pact with the american people that we will be your safety net if you need it. and that's going away. that's a huge change. so for a vocal minority about premiums in the marketplace, millions will lose their coverage. this bill is even worse than the house bill. if the house bill was mean, this bill is cruel and heartless. >> let me ask you this. >> if you have the exchanges in the individual markets, you have medicaid and how it's funded and you have tax cuts, you could do stuff about the individual markets. and just deep taxes to keep funding medicaid. right? they don't have to go together. this is an affirmative choice because majority ofs don't like people on medicaid. so by replacing the aca's medicaid and xiang, what are we
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do? it had state sanctioned monopolies to run programs in certain states. they won't have that. they'll have to compete with blue cross to compete for those customers who will get to choose which insurance plan they wanted. just like people on the obamacare exchanges can do today. that's progress. it will expand choice, improve the quality. >> you actually think that the net effect will be over the course of the country, more people insured? the cbo will not say that. >> the cbo will not say it. the reason is they believe the individual mandate. they believe it will reduce by 18 million people. that's wrong. no one believes 18 fewer people have health insurance. >> do you think fewer people will have health insurance say ten years from now if this bill passes? >> i think fewer people will
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have health insurance ten years from now i think they'll have fewer choices. if you remove the individual mandate and still require insurance companies the insure people, it is like saying you can wait until your roof is on fire until you get homeowners insurance. you will see the market fall party. this happened in washington years ago and i think most of them left the market. i think this will be a death spiral. it won't be obamacare that will be in a spiral, it will be this new bill. >> there is an equilibrium. you start getting waivers on the health benefits, you could end one a sub prime nshls market. you have the government subsidizing something west saw it with for profit colleges. there's very little regulation. and we saw an entire basically scam market of for profit
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colleges rise up to say, oh, yeah, come give us your pell grants. it looks like you can create the seeds of that if you're not very careful with how you implement something like the. >> you first. >> i'm worried that with the loss of the essential health benefits, the changes in the tax credit. the value proposition will be crappy care at a convenient cost. >> right. >> totally disagree with that. i think you will see premiums go down relative to prior law. you will see deductibles go down, more choice, more competition and more stable markets. which will be very important for the long term. >> i would say, if this thing were to pass, lord, would i hope that his vision is correct. i hope if he's wrong, people will pay a price.
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thank you, both. still to come, the president campaigning on saving medicaid and lowering premiums and so far it is 0-3. the high stakes bait-and-switch after the two-minute break. ♪ i've got some real estate here in my bag ♪ ♪ so i looked at the scenery. ♪ she read her magazine... the all-new volkswagen atlas. covered from coast to coast with america's best bumper-to-bumper limited warranty. whattwo servings of veggies? v8 or a powdered drink? ready, go. ahhhhhhhh! shake! shake! shake! shake! shake!
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still yes! you can get it too. welcome to the party. introducing gig-speed internet from xfinity. finally, gig for your neighborhood too. the senate health care bill is a repudiation of nearly every promise the president made. no cuts to medicaid, very explicit on that, lower premiums and deductibles and insurance coverage for everyone. >> i'm not going to cut social security like every other republican and i'm not going to cut medicaid or medicare. save medicaid, medicare and social security without cuts. >> we're going to have a health care that is far less expensive and far better. >> yes, premiums will be coming down. yes, deductibles will be coming down. >> everybody has to be covered.
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i don't care if it costs me votes or not. much better than they're taken care of now. >> i've been talking about a plan with heart. i said add some money to it. a plan with heart. >> strictly speaking the bill doesn't even fulfill the president's promise to repeal the affordable care act. it merely amends the aca. the deputy white house press secretary was asked specifically about the president's medicaid promise. >> so if cutting medicaid was wrong when he was a candidate, why is it right in the new republican senate bill? >> i don't believe the president has specifically said that it is right to cut medicaid. >> does the president still believe that there should be no cuts? >> i do know that he wants to protect as much as possible. >> but there has been an update. the new position is, i like cutting medicaid so much, i'll going to throw a party in the rose garden with house republicans. on tv in front of the whole
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country while we all watched. if there was any doubt, the president just tweeted, i am very supportive of the senate health care bill. i'm joined by the editor-in-chief. this was your summation. poor people pay more for worse insurance. i find the bait-and-switch here pretty remarkable given the way the president he separated himself in the primary and the promise ts that he made. >> this is a really bad day in american politics. it isn't supposed to work like this. there is this line that you're hearing when you talk to republicans about this bill. got to pass it. what they promised to do was repeal and replace. they have to keep their promise. they made a promise to people and you heard it. they understood what people didn't like about oklahoma. it left a lot of people uncovered. mitch mcconnell said about 25 million people uncoveredful premiums were too high, co-pays
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too high, people ended up with insurance they couldn't afford to use. so they said they would repeal and replace obamacare something that fix these problems. this makes everyone of them worse. higher deductibles, higher premiums. higher co-pays, fewer people covered. you're supposed to be able to trust that people want to go in the direction they told you. maybe they're saying it will do more than they say. the basic direction. that's not what this is. they're going the exact opposite. >> part of this comes back to this. the distributional impact of the medicaid cuts. it was 48% of the people in expansion medicaid there. to me this is such a tell of wll they talked about what they're doing take. a liberty. >> so medicaid.
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sending it back to the states. dapg growth rate. we've been dreaming of this since you and i were drinking out of a keg. >> i was thinking about something else. i was thinking about reforming medicaid. >> i was. i've been thinking about it for a long time of the until that shows what you this is really about. which is nothing to do with the aca. >> there is a consistent vision every where in this bill. and what it is, is that poor people should pay more for less care. i heard it before. a lot was getting alighted. there are states that have refused to expand medicaid by choice. they don't want poor people to have that. if you move all the people who could get medicaid on to these private plans and the. cheaper plans, what they get is health insurance much worse. they have to pay quite a bit more for it.
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there is this piece that people won't report this much on it. it is really important. the affordable care act ties subsidies to health insurance plans that covers 70% of your costs. this moves it to 58%. you're looking at a 7,000 deductible. if you wanted to encampus late it. you move from health insurance, a 7,000 or more deductible. and subsidies, that's all you can get it for. it is a really pro found change. >> they've been essentially ostensibly publicly neutral on this. and part of what is insidious about this, what you're pointing to. this sort of shos a lot of money toward the insurance companies to keep them neutral. >> if you look at the affordable care act, they try to put healthy people into the insurance markets. in this iteration of the bill,
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there is nothing that replaces the mandate. the house bill had something called continuous coverage. it was a shot. this has nothing. i asked people, how will you keep insurance markets stable? and they have this multi-billion dollar fund. it is not a bailout. it is a payoff. >> all right. thank you for breaking down. i appreciate it. >> coming up next, the brazen bluff that landed the president and the special investigation. and ahead, eric swalwell on what the director of national intelligence told the committee. [ intense music playing ] it's here, but it's going by fast. the opportunity of the year is back: the mercedes-benz summer event. get to your dealer today for incredible once-a-season offers, and start firing up those grilles.
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president trump confirmed that what anyone paying attention had concluded which is that there are no tapes of his quofrgss then fbi director james comey. the president tweeting today, with all the recently reported electronics surveillance, intercepts, unmasking, i have no idea whether there are tapes of my conversations with james comey. but i he did not make and do not have any such recordings. it was an attempt to intimidate a witness. the president's he initial threat, james comey better hope there are no tapes of our conversations before he starts leake to the press also proved to be remarkably destruck i have the. because that was the threat that precipitated james comey to leak his conversations with the express purpose of triggering the appointment of a special
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counsel. >> the president tweeted on friday, after i got fired, that i'd better hope there are not tapes. so i asked a friend of mine to share the content of the memo with a reporter. i thought that might prompt the appointment of a special counsel. >> so president trump managed to tweet himself into a special counsel. now the investigation involves special counsel mueller interviewing dan coats and mike rogers about what the president asked them to do. coats said that president trump was obsessed with the russia probe. names of my grandparents first. i got a leaf right away. a leaf is a hint that is connected to each person in your family tree. i learned that my ten times great grandmother is george washington's aunt. within a few days i went from knowing almost nothing to holy crow, i'm related to george washington.
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we've now learned that president trump wanted director of national intelligence dan coats and mike rogers to state publicly the president was not under investigation for collusion with public officials. they said that he seemed obsessed with the russia investigation and repeatedly asked coats to say publicly there was no evidence of collusion. the u.s. official familiar with the conversation told nbc news. joining me now, eric swalwell, member of the intelligence committee. if it was the case the president had been assured privately by james comey that he was not personally under investigation at that time, why is it so wrong of him to go around to everybody he could find in his government to try to get them to say that in public? >> good evening.
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the problem is that james comey had told congress march 20th, that the president's campaign was under criminal intelligence investigation. so you can deduct that the president knew or maybe in the administration were being investigated. so the president, i think, had a duty to really distance himself from that investigation. and it looks like from what jim comey said, he was doing the opposite. >> in terms of of his conversations, there was also reporting indicating that he was essentially trying to get them to have comey back off. that they declined that. what does that say to you terms the possibility of obstruction? >> right now what we want to have the public hear is what the president said to coats and rogers and whether that corroborates that the room was cleared that shows intent. and whether or not other people
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had the same conversation. to be fair, an innocent explanation could be that the president just wanted it to be out there that he was not under investigation. another explanation could also be that the president was probing individuals like james comey to find out what they had on people on his team. and i think most above board individuals, once they found out their team was under investigation, would back off and be as cooperative as necessary. >> as a former prosecutor, what do you make of the president essentially admitting that he dbl have any tapes and he was bluffing in an attempt on influence fundamentally the testimony under oath of james comey? >> if he does not have tapes, then it looks line he was trying on bill is date james comey by suggesting that the conversations mabel recorded and then hoping that james comey wouldn't come forward. the problem is comey did come forward and that makes him even more believable that he testified that anything he said
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to the president at the time could have been recorded and contradicted by what he was saying to congress and then risking that he could be committing perjury. so now that there are no tapes, there is no other point of view. there is nothing else about what happened and that leaves it to the president. it is in his corner. >> the president today saying in a series of statements from twitter about, he called this all a hoax yet again. he said if russia actually hacked -- it seems like when we talk about what happened, intelligence agencies all agree that vladimir putin directed russian intelligence agents to criminally sabotage computers, and servers, and to go affect election, the president does not accept that. >> he doesn't. and yesterday we had jay johnson and i asked him who attacked us? he said russia. was it our democracy attacked? he said yes. i said why doesn't the president
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accept this? and he said he doesn't know. there is only one steering wheel in the car. it doesn't matter if public servants like dan coats and michael rogers and director pompeo all believe russia did this if the person driving the car isn't listening to them and is steering us closer to russia, there is nothing we can do about it. we need him to semiit. >> in terms of steering, there's reporting that behind the scenes they're attempting to water it down. in many ways, policywise, the u.s. just shot down an assad fighter jet in retaliation. it is not as if this president has taken a line in a policy standpoint that has been particularly friendly to russia. >> and i would attribute that almost entirely to the light we have shined through our investigations. if we were not, if we were not as, i think, determined to get to the bottom of what happened.
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if we have not really illuminated the president's ties to russia, i'm afraid that you would have seen the sanctions lifted already. the president would have diminished the role of nato even more than he already has. that more secrets to the russians and the oval office would have been conveyed. >> all right. thank you for your time. >> my pleasure. still ahead, the newly unveiled republican health care bill neat so-called jimmy kimmel test? remember our special night?
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>> i'm not going to play much golf. there is a lot of work to be done. i'm be working for you. i won't have time to golf. golf, golf, golf. more, more, learning how to chip, learning how to hit the drive, learning how to putt. i want more. >> when he got into office, things changed. in the 153 days of his presidency, he has spent 42 days in his own pros including 29 days at his golf profits. most recently at his golf club in new jersey where amenities are the finest and the chance of running into the president himself as he drives his golf cart across the green. starts a chain reaction... ...that's heard throughout the connected business world. at&t network security helps protect business, from the largest financial markets to the smallest transactions, by sensing cyber-attacks in near real time and automatically deploying countermeasures. keeping the world of business connected and protected.
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that's the power of and. tech: when you schedule with safelite autoglass, you get a text when we're on our way. you can see exactly when we'll arrive. i'm micah with safelite. customer: thanks for coming, it's right over here. tech: giving you a few more minutes for what matters most. take care. kids singing: safelite® repair, safelite® replace. an unusual sight greeted those fortunate enough to be at the golf club in new jersey a few weeks ago. >> how great is that? that's the only place you can drive on the green, right? your own golf cart.
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that's mine. i'm going to need it. thank you! how are you? how are you doing? what's happening? everything is great. i feel very safe, thank you. more security in the history of golf. >> hey, prez! that wasn't all he did during his weekend. he also crashed a wedding party congratulating the delighted couple the of seemingly spontaneous actions of the university who has visited a full quarter of his presidency visiting trump properties. it has been an enormous boone to the trump foundation's bottom line. after years of declining fortunes, they're now flourishing and his income reported from palm beach and others has doubled to $191
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million since he was elected president. eric trump who overseies it, i think the brand is the hottest it has ever been. it's here, but it's going by fast. the opportunity of the year is back: the mercedes-benz summer event. get to your dealer today for incredible once-a-season offers, and start firing up those grilles. lease the gle350 for $579 a month at your local mercedes-benz dealer. mercedes-benz. the best or nothing.
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we were brought up to believe that we live in the greatest country in the world. but until a few years ago, millions and millions of us had no access to health insurance at all. before 2014, if you were born with congenital heart disease like my son was, there was a good chance you would never be able to get health insurance because you had a pre-existing condition. you were born with a pre-existing condition if your parents didn't have health insurance, you might not live long enough to even get denied. if your baby is going to die and it doesn't have to, it shouldn't matter how much money you make. i think that's something that whether you're a republican or a democrat or something else, we all agree on that, right? we do. >> a little more than a month
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ago, late night host jimmy kimmel told a story about his are newborn baby's heart condition. how lucky he is to afford decent health care. and bill cassidy saw that and coined it the jimmy kimmel test. a week after that, cassidy joined him on the show and seemed reluctant to agree with the test as kimmel himself pointed out. >> since i am jilly kimmel, i'll say no, family should be denied medical care insurance or otherwise because they cannot afford it. can that be the test? is that a way of simplifying it? >> you're another right track. if that's as close as we get, we have to be able to pay for it. that's the challenge. >> so now that the senators released their draft of the health care bill, it seems it will leave millions more without
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coverage. people who can find themselves without insurance. in other words, it sounds like this bill doesn't quite meet the jimmy kimmel test. dearthere's no other way to say this. it's over. i've found a permanent escape from monotony. together, we are perfectly balanced. our senses awake. our hearts racing as one. i know this is sudden, but they say...if you love something
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set it free. see you around, giulia a cockroach can survive submergede guy. underwater for 30 minutes. wow. yeah, wow. not getting in today.
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today republican snasht bill cassidy of louisiana, after coining the jimmy kimmel test in may was asked whether the new bill meets the bar. >> i think it begins to address the jimmy kimmel test. a child who is terribly ill or
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any loved one would both have coverage but also a way to keep the coverage affordable. now everything i'm saying -- i've not read the bill -- this is just the presentation. >> a cautious answer. but other so-called moderates are signaling they could want more out of the bill before they sign on. that includes shelley moore capi capito. nevada, legislators passed a medicaid bill this month to see the law vetoed by the republican winner. telling chucked to today she had major reservations about the bill so far. >> i can't support a bill that's going to greatly increase premiums for our older americans, out of pocket costs for those who aren't quite old enough for medicare yet.
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i cannot support a bill that is going to result in tens of millions of people losing their health insurance. and i cannot support a bill that's going to make such deep cuts in medicaid. >> from the right putting out a joint statement against the bill today was ted cruz of texas, mike lee of urt urt, ron johnson and kentucky senator rand paul who said today the bill doesn't go far enough for him. >> to my mind we promised to repeal obamacare. the current bill looks like we're keeping larm parts of obamacare. we're keeping the subsidies. we're boosting the subsidies for stabilization or risk pools and i think it looks a lot like obamacare now. >> joan walsh and jennifer rubin, which gop senators will walk the plank.
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that's a good yquestion. i want to just start with the basic suspicion i've had that this is a little bit of kabuki theater. all of the senators saying i haven't seen the bill. i don't like the process. the bill comet out today and ted cruz has had a little bit of a chance. >> he's not somebody i would count as a solid no. he's bargaining. rand paul could be a solid no. susan collins could be a solid no. listening to chuck today the three things she laid out are not going to get better with this bill. it's always going to cut million of people off. it's always going to do dramatic horrible things to medicaid. those are the two i feel the most comfortable with. i cannot believe that people take bill cassie seriously and
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he comes out saying this is going to pass the kimmel test when 76% of children are covered by some some of medicaid, whether it's the c.h.i.p. expansion or traditional medica medicaid. lots of children are not going to get care for a congenital heart disease or anything else. >> jennifer, you referred to walk the plank. you've got the folks, collinss, fur c murkowski -- alaska has high health care costs and the question of whether the subsidies are enough when they're properly indexed there matters a lot. joan is right that rand paul could take one of those two slots and you can also see collins taking one. and to me the big question is heller. heller is the only senator who represents a state that hillary won who is a republican who is up in 2018. he's also has medicaid expansion.
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how could his political calculation be to vote for this bill? >> i don't see how it can be. what's worse is the governor of nevada came out against the bill pretty hard today, as did john kasich who said he had serious concerns putting really the pressure on to rob portman who is another one who i think in the end will find it very hard to vote for the bill. this bill managed to find the sweet spot, the point at which no one likes it. the moderates don't like it for the reasons that susan collins was outlining. the hard liners don't like it because it's a chitsier version of obama ca0 boobamacare. and then there's a transfer of wealth from poorer americans to richer americans. there's a lot for everyone to hate. the problem with trying to split the difference is that you wind up with something that really does please no one. >> here's why i think the odds -- i don't think this is a done deal at all.
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but my feeling, folks i've talked to, the odds are they will get the votes. here's why. they're going to play with the knobs and give people little wins. they're going to give the conservatives wins. rob portman is going to triple the money for opioid addiction. >> we're going to get $10 billion and send out a press release and tell our constituents we really got something from mcconnell. >> or heller does something on medicaid expansion, on the phaseout or the cost that they're using. i mean doesn't it seem to you, jennifer, that they've essentially set it up so they can dial a bunch of knobs and give people these public wins that they need to get to the 50 votes? >> well, you're talking about sort of normal senators i would say yes. but i think you have some people in the senate who are really i'd logically dead set against the federal government subsidizing health care.
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that's the four people who said they wouldn't voted for it right up front. i think it's hard for those people to walk back because you're going to change the structure of the bill. the second problem, and i think susan collins tipped her hand whp when the cbo does their scoring, and it's not going to be all that different than the house bill, that's going to be the signal for the moderates. so i think you can only turn the knobs and screws so much before you break them. and my theory has been all along that frankly mitch mcconnell just want to get a vote and get past this. if they vote it down or get tripped up so be it. he can put this behind him and get on to something rehe likes, which is giving tax break to rich people. >> that's interesting. i think one of the things to really watch here, of those four conservatives, the one that i really do think would do it is rand paul. i think he's the most
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untethered. obviously the home state senator of mitch mcconnell so that comp cat complicates things. and if paul grabs one of those slots, there's only one card yet to give away. >> to heller. they would love to give that card to heller. but if susan collins grabs the other or murkowski or portman. >> with more seniority. that's where things can get difficult. the other thing i've heard is there's a rumbling that they're not going to do conference committee. they're going topaz it right back to the house and have the house pass it word for word which is of course happened after the death of ted kennedy. all of the sudden you're making the republicans walk the plank again. >> i can see that happening but that's crazy. the so-called moderates over there to eat this kind of medicaid expansion and the restructuring of traditional medicaid, are they really going to go along with that?
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>> there is a window here for the public to have the debate it hasn't had. hopefully that will happen. people with talk to their represents. jennifer rubin, joan walsh, thank you for joining me. that is all in this evening. the rachel maddow show starts right now. thank you for joining us this hour. july 4th is a tuesday this year, which means some people who have generous bosses will get an extra extra long weekend for independence day because you'll get the 4th of july off on tuesday, but maybe db depending on how you boss feels about it, maybe you will also get the monday off on july 3rd as well. that said, even if you've got a good boss who is giving you july 3rd, unless you've got a particularly great boss, even if you get the 3rd and the 4th off, you will probably be coming back to work on july


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