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tv   Hardball With Chris Matthews  MSNBC  June 26, 2017 11:30pm-12:01am PDT

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it's being called a partial win for president trump today from the supreme court. the court has largely agreed to let the travel ban take effect while agreeing to hear the cases in the fall. this, after two lower courts, federal courts ruled against it. the atlantic had this great reality check on what happened today. quote, the victory was limited in a way that anyone who has
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ever been 12 years old will understand. the court didn't say the government could never have a pony, but it didn't say the government could have a pony either. instead, it said if you still want a pony next october, we'll see. with us tonight, richard painter, chief ethics lawyer to former president george w. bush who now teaches law at the university of minnesota when he is not out in l.a. hanging out with bill mayer. and msnbc's chief legal correspondent, welcome to you both, counselors. ari, you get the math question up top. where did the president get his math on a 9-0 decision in his favor. and how many people, actual people will this end up affecting from now to october? >> i think he got his math from the most creative lawyer you
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could get from the court which doesn't have a head count, which says nobody was actually dissenting from, so i'm going to call it unanimous. the actual vote will come later on the merits. how many people? well, we ballpark normally from 150,000 people that would be let in. initially this blocked the travel ban for all of them. and now immigration experts tell us about half may satisfy this new test that the court put out today. meaning that somewhere around you know, 75,000-plus people may still get through, while the other half are now blocked by the partially instated travel ban. >> and just check me on this, the court has today met a standard that says you just have to have somebody, a person, perhaps a church group, definitely a job, a school that has accepted you. you have to have a real connection to the united states, from these countries, to come to
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the united states, it's those of you who don't that we're not going to allow in the united states? >> that is right, to put it in a sentence the court said you can still enforce the travel ban against foreign nationals with no link to the u.s. so they're out of the game but people who have as you just describe those kind of links can still appeal and thus be still in the game. >> so richard painter, let's fast forward to october, the court takes on this subject in chief. but the travel ban will have expired by the time they get their hands dirty in the case. what happens? >> well, if the president wants to continue with the travel ban he can issue a new travel ban and presumably it would be the same travel ban. the problem is the president has been tweeting that he really wants a different travel ban. the one that he originally had. and that this is just the
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watered down version. if the president plays that game, he changes the travel ban between now and october to put it back where it was before at the beginning of the administration, i think the supreme court is going to get quite annoyed. they're not going to want to be looking at a moving target here. they need to be told exactly what the travel ban is that the president wants to implement and then make a decision. all we had today was a preliminary decision about what they're going to allow between ann now and when they make a final decision. there is no decision from the court yet. the president has created a very bad record here in this case by running all over the country talking about a muslim ban. and calling it a travel ban, and then the lawyers in the justice department tried to avoid the term travel ban. the president tweeted out it is a travel ban in all caps. this is a very messy case.
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and the supreme court is going to have a lot of work to do between now and october to figure out what the law really is. is this constitutional or is it not? that is going to be a very challenging decision for the supreme court. and i don't think we ought to be trying to read too many tea leaves today from what happened today. >> ari, you and richard have been so good today not using any terms like per curiam. what did the supreme court find notable? what virtue did they find that other federal courts did not? >> well, the other federal courts dug into what mr. painter just talked believabili. the history, right? how do you ignore that when somebody talks so openly about religious discrimination. this court basically didn't go down that road at all. it looked at the who, not the
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why. it is likely that lawyers will continue to push the why and say you have to look at this statement and behind the curtain of the bare text of the order. the other point i'll make during the vietnam era, there was the discussion maybe you just declare victory and leave. it's the possibility that when the 90-day deadline runs, the trump administration said we did it for 90 days, we got a victory, and close up shop. >> two in the meantime lawysmary glad they're on our team. thank you very much. still ahead, what spies around the world can learn from the president's twitter feed. also he served as defense secretary, white house chief of staff, cia director and then some. leon panetta with us when "the 11th hour" continues. you can embrace the chance of completely clear skin with taltz. taltz is proven to give you a chance at completely clear skin.
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welcome back to the monday night edition of our broadcast.
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earlier tonight i spoke with leon panetta, long-time member of congress in the democratic party of california. former white house chief of staff to bill clinton, former secretary of defense, and former director of the cia. i started out by asking him about something that president trump wrote on twitter. quote, the reason that president obama did nothing about russia after being notified by the cia of meddling is he expected clinton would win, he didn't choke, he colluded or obstructed. what is your response? >> well, i think the president will take away any attention from what the president not only did during the election but the threat they represent in the
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future. i just don't see a lot of credibility by someone who has called the russian interference a hoax, a witch hunt. has blamed it on hackers, has blamed it on the chinese. and i think has used every diversion to try to take attention away from it. and i think this is what the attack is with regards to president obama. just another diversion. >> mr. secretary, what do you think is happening to our image overseas, especially among allies? what do you fear is happening to our image overseas? >> well, i worry a great deal about it. because i have always -- i've always felt that the united states, since world war ii, has represented strong leadership in the world. and has been an important factor in terms of not only working with our allies but working to
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try to preserve the peace in our times. and i think that as our allies look to the united states, as other countries look to the united states they're not quite sure whether that leadership is really going to be there when they need it. and i think there is a great deal of concern, a great deal of nervousness and a lot of questions about whether or not the united states will continue to provide world leadership instead of just retreating intor o intore -- into fortress america. >> one of the kinder things you said, in your view, how far off the normal plum line of administrations are they, do they remain, still? >> well, i worry about it a great deal. look, president trump won the election. he is president of the united states. i think all of us believe that
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the presidents of the united states ought to succeed in office, because we all depend on a president being able to do that. but what i sense is a tremendous amount of disorganization within the white house in terms of the ability to provide the commanding control support system that needs to be provided to the president. i think there are too many centers of power. too much competition. too many people who are running around, who do not have specific responsibilities in terms of their jobs. i think the president has to get a stronger chain of command in the white house if he is ever going to be able to succeed as president. >> finally, a question about health care, mostly because you were a member of congress for so long and you know very well the human toll it can take at the other end. what do you make of the senate
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plan today, what we're hearing about it? what the cbo has said about it. and what we know of the house plan and what we're likely to see in this effort to repeal and replace obamacare? >> in my experience in the congress, any time a major piece of legislation is rushed to judgment it usually winds up failing. and not accomplishing what it is intended to do. i think they're rushing to judgment on a major piece of legislation. we just found out that 22 million people will lose their health insurance as a result of this bill. that is unacceptable. and it's going to create a tremendous amount of pressure on those members who represent people, ordinary people who will lose their health coverage. so i just don't understand the rush to judgment here. because this is a major issue
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affecting every american in this country. they ought to take their time and do it right. >> joining us from the leon panetta institute, former congressman, former cia director, former secretary of defense, leon panetta thank you so much for being with us. >> thank you, brian. >> and up next here as we take one more break from twitter with love. what the president's tweets are telling spies across the world. when "the 11th hour" continues.
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welcome back to our broadcast, as we mentioned another busy day for the president on twitter. but americans are not the only ones watching what he says in that medium. "the washington post" piece says, quote, this is what foreign spies see when they read president trump's tweets. it goes on, trump's twitter feed is a gold mine for every foreign intelligence agency.
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the president's unfiltered thoughts are available night and day, broadcast to his 32.7 million twitter followers immediately and without much obvious mediation by diplomats, strategists or handlers. the author of this piece is a former cia analyst with us tonight. s thank you so much for being with us. the first question for those who have yet to read your piece, what are we americans not seeing that could be damaging or revealing, and what are people in your line of work reading those tweets looking for? >> so more than anything, an intelligence analyst looks for information on world leaders that adds to the information that they are collecting through classified means. so what is so different about trump's tweets and the advantage
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that it gives to foreign intelligence agencies is that he is doing this in an unfiltered way and openly in a public forum. now typically, intelligence agencies collect information and they do it covertally a covertl sometimes they're risking their lives to give this information. but this is very unusual as far as a world leader. >> so your problem is not that he is tweeting about being in florida, or new jersey, or at the white house. most days -- lately he has been relitigating the russia case. he has gone after his predecessor in office. what are the examples of how the trained eye, of how what he says on twitter is saving our opponents and enemies work? >> so what it does is expose his priorities. it tells us what news programs
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he is watching and listening to. what is he reading? what is top of mind for the president at any given hour? and in addition it also tells us his vulnerablevulnerabilities, instance, he is so worried about the russia investigation, his deleted tweets also give a little insight to how infiltered his tweets. the majority are deleted because of his spelling errors. >> so if i assigned you to put a binder on my table with a personality profile, some of the information, some of where you would start, you already gained through public domain, doing what we already do reading what he says on twitter every morning?
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>> yes, absolutely. his lag of timing of tweets, for instance, also gives some insight into what is it he is distracted by or finding a priority. if there is a u.s. military action is he tweeting about it right away or sending condolences if there is an accident like the uss fitzgerald. how long does he take an action to do that. and the official potus account is insightful, because that tends to be more formal with the presidents. >> endlessly interesting tonight, written by our guest, thank you, nada bakos, thank you for coming eon our show. and finally, coming up, ivanka and the west wing of the
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white house when we continue.
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and one last thing before we go here tonight. with first daughter and assistant to the president, ivanka trump working on key issues in the west wing, she said something interest about her role in the west wing during an interview with "fox & friends," the president's favorite morning show. >> you are the adviser to the president of the united states. what do you advise your father on? >> i advise my father on a plethora of things. i give him my open and candid
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feedback, sometimes we agree, sometimes we disagree. >> what do you look at in regards to the tweets? >> you know, i try to stay out of politics. his political instincts are tonight on "all in." >> what's going to happen? people will die by the thousands. >> the clock is ticking on the senate health care bill. as the cbo estimates 22 million people will lose their insurance. >> the plan in its entirety will absolutely bring premiums down. >> no one loses coverage. >> these are not cuts to medicate. >> tonight, the lies being used to rush the bill through the senate, and the chances of it actually passing this week.


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