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tv   Morning Joe  MSNBC  June 27, 2017 3:00am-6:01am PDT

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starts right now. >> i am going to take care of everybody. i don't care if it costs me votes or not. >> i'm not going to cut social security like everybody other republican. i'm not going to cut medicare or medicaid. >> save medicare and medicaid without cuts. have to do it. >> we're going to have social security that's far less expensive. >> yes, premiums will be coming down. deductibles will be coming down. >> there are promises and then there's the math. the cbo is out with its analysis. and it's a far cry from -- >> pretty close actually.
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>> of course. we have a lot to get to this morning. good morning, everyone, it's tuesday, june 27th. with us we have mike barnicle. >> mike, it's not even close. >> no. >> it's hideous. >> it's like he didn't tell the truth on the campaign trail. >> i know you're shocked by t t that. >> somebody tried to sell you an apartment. >> this has the potential to be a defining moment in the senate. that vote on this bill is going to be a test of conscience and character for these senators. >> if by defining you mean any senator who votes for it is going to lose for the rest of their life. >> if only we had someone who could break down the numbers. >> steve rattner is with us. and kasie hunt joins us as well.
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wooe we've got a lot to get to. last night the white house put out an ominous and unspexpected warning to syria, concerning another possible chemical weapons attack. the united states has identified preparations for another chemical weapons attack by the assad regime that, would likely amount in the mass murder of civilians, including children. as we have previously stated, the united states is in syria to eliminate of islamic state of iraq and syria. if mr. assad conducts another mass murder attack using chemical weapons, he and his military will pay a heavy price. and nikki haley said any further attacks done to the peep of sop
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syria will be blamed on assad. a centcon official tells buzz feed he has no idea about the origin and the "new york times" reports that unnamed military officials say they were caught off guard by the announcement, although it unclear how tightly guarded the intelligence is. the u.s. conducted air strikes back on april 6th in retaliation of sorts for using chemical weapons against syrians, which left more and 80 civilians dead, including dozens of churn. joining us from washington, national security analyst jeremy bass, former chief of staff at the cia and department of defense. what's going on? >> it looks like some in the dod
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and some in centcom were caught offguard, predicting a military attacks by the united states. >> usually these statements are vetted by the intelligence community, by the dod, by the state department. it remains to be seen this morning whether this was done. in terms of the content of this statement, it says assad and his military will pay a heavy price. that's clearly laying the groundwork for a military strike, not just on one airfield, not just the 59 tomahawk cruise missiles down in the april counterattack but something potentially more serious involving u.s. aircraft. this is really complicated now because what happened last sunday was after a u.s. navy f-18 downed a syrian fighter, russia effectively declared a no-fly zone of its on in western part of syria saying if the u.s. aircraft comes up in the air in the west of the you've frats and
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syria, the russians are going to shoot it down. so it's unclear hour we would conduct this attack without pushing russia out of the way and if this morning, joe and mika, that's kind of the big question, is this president willing to push vladimir putin out of the way so we co potentially go against the regime in syria. >> president trump now accusing president obama of colluding with praush and is demanding an apology, though it unclr from whom. he wrote from twitter yesterday -- >> he's not well. >> say that a little loud are and with, quite frankly, concern. the real story is that president obama did nothing after being informed in august about russian meddling adding with four months looking at a russia under a magnifying glass, they have zero
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tapes of people colluding, no obstruction, i should be given an apology. this is our president tweeting yesterday. earlier he tweeted the reason that president obama did nothing about russia after being notified by the cia of meddling is that he expected clinton would win and did not want to rock the boat. he didn't choke opinion he colluded and obstruct nd and it did the dems and crooked hillary, no good. this is the president. and an off camera, that's just a question within itself, audio only news brief yesterday. san surprise are defended the al gag that his predecessor colluded with russia. >> what evidence does he have -- >> they've within playing this card about trump and russia and
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ak acore if they downtack any action, does at that mack this many come myself it. >> why was that off camera in why would the press do that? >> nbc kristen welker pressed spicer, pointing to one of his infamous comments from the campaign trail. >> this was president trump on the campaign trail, russia, if you're listening, i hope you're able to find the 30,000 e-mails that are missing. i think you will probably be rewarded mightily by our press. how can you accuse president obama of obstructing when he was egging russia on? >> he was joking at the time. >> and let see if he was joking. >> it's just a total deflection, this whole thing with russia. by the way, they hacked. they probably have her 33,000 e-mails. i hope they do. they probably have her 33,000 e-mails that she lost and
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deleted. bus you'd see some beauties there. so let's see. it would be interesting to see. i will tell you this, russia, if you're listening, i hope you're able to find the 30,000 e-mails that are missing. i think you will probably be rewarded mightily by our press. let's see if that happens. >> do you have any qualms about asking a foreign government, russia, china, anybody, to interfere, to hack into a system of anybody's in this country's -- >> it's up to the president -- >> no, no, you just called for it a moment ago, you should the russians -- >> he has no respect. up. >> said i welcome them to find those 30,000 -- >> they probably have them. >> does that not give you toss? >> no, gives me no pause. hey, you know what gives me more pause? that a person in our government,
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crooked hillary clinton -- >> i know you want to save her. that a person in our government, katie, would delete or get rid of 33,000 e-mails. that gives me a problem. after she gets a subpoena. that gives me a problem. now, if russia or china or any other country has those e-mails, to be honest with you, i'd love to see them. >> shortly after that press conference, trump tweeted in russia or any other country or person has hillary clinton's 33,000 illegally deleted e-mails, perhaps they should share them with the fbi. >> where do we begin, willie? and sean spicer saying he was joking. he's not joking. they're accusing barack obama of colluding. this guy now under investigation by bob mueller has brought everything on himself. and the deeper he gets in it,
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the more he digs, the more destructive he becomes to himself. >> well, they're all over the place. he in particular are all over the place in their explanation for what happened. he said maybe they meddled, maybe it's china. and then sean spicer said i haven't spoken to the president. then in the tweet about president obama, while he thought implicating president obama admitted there was meddling in the election. now he's saying it's president obama who was obstructing and colluding. the story has taken so many twists and turns but he's going off that "washington post" story of last week, which said, as we reported on this show through "the washington post" that the white house, the obama administration soft pedalled russia because they didn't want to be seen as put thumb on the scale of that campaign that, election. that's the mileage president trump thinks he's getting out of this and he thinks he's got the winning argument bass of that piece in the "washington post." >> and now saying barack obama colluded. >> mike barnicle, what's going
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on in. >> i don't want to throw this thing off the trolley tracks but i think the larger story here is it involves russia as well is the statement jeremy bash was talking about at the top of the hour, basically here we come in syria. i mean, tempting russia it do something, two planes flying within 15, 20 feet within one another, this is dangerous stuff. >> jeremy? >> well, it's not unheard of to kind of issue a warning like this from the white house in conjunction with other statements from principals. the way the president had an event in rose garden with the endian prime minister. you put a topper on the speech and say there's an important development in the middle east, i want to as command are in chief address the nation, address the world and talk about
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the severity of this and then you leave the plolitical snark o sean spicer. they have this in reverse. it's totally upside down. >> jeremy bash, we appreciate your coming on this morning. we need to move now to health care and the cbo's assessment of the senate health care's plan that is making it that much harder for republicans to push it through. the nonpartisan group found that over the next decade 22 million people -- fewer people would be ensured compared to obamacare. and that deficit savings would largely come on the back of cuts in medicaid spending, $772 billion. of the 15 million people who would no longer be on medicaid as a result of the law, the cbo forecast would not purchase private coverage since the senate bill would encourage many
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purchase pla and the end they would reduce the deficit by by $320. by 2026 premiums could be 20% lower compared to obamacare. that doesn't account for reductions in coverage, for out of pocket costs or changes in subsidies. their premiums would have spiked. >> you know what, i call -- >> history of -- >> i called of democrats when they trashed the cbo because it didn't fit their political plans and republicans should likewise be trashed. it just outrageous.
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mike barnicle, there are senators like susan collins in maine, there is no way they can support this bill. there is no way that heller in nevada can support this bill. >> rob portman. >> is no way rob portman can support this bill. it's just -- it would be devastating, especially for seniors, lower income, middle-income seniors. also donald trump, a man that says he's not going to cut medicaid? what do we have here? $775 billion in cuts? >> basically the outlines of it bill as have been provided and it has much more informing than we all have, the people that need health and carend the most, the eld, poor, the treule ill, are going to be without health care product. >> i don't know that they have a
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vote, joe. you know better than i do. >> how could they? >> it's not just a mitch mcconnell has made it difficult for peep to say yes, they made it easy to say no. susan collins can say i have one in five people on medicaid. i simply did k not vote for it, it 20% of my state. you have all the people who voted for the medicare expanse, to take it away from that many people in those states, it's easy to say no. >> first, casey, do they have the votes? >> not right now, no. the way things are shaping up here, susan collins came out with those tweets, it's looking like we may never get as far as the process a talking about. it may commonwealth down to mcmcconnell say i've been trying
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to wrap my head around what is the strategy here for mcconnell? he does want to give some of his members an opportunity to say, hey, i voted against obamacare, like i said i would, but he doesn't want to drag this out into a lengthy process in a would require or difficult votes on this. >> does anybody believe this is going to pass? you have republican senators doing what this never do, winning in statements like wisconsin and pennsylvania and ohio and in presidential election years. that doesn't happen that much these days. how could those senators, along with susan collins of maine, vote for a bill like this? >> i honestly, joe, the as soon as is growing that they can't. and i think starting from 24 hours agriculture, would vietnam books every thousand this was it
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was more lookly than not. this could be completely different by 35:00 afternoonand point you make about the president and what he campaigned on the on thing that would be worse than roo pealing blake is doing the wrong this evening and this is not what president ob a obamai think the question is whether this gets big enough that it runs away from the majority leader. >> do you remember the tweet saying mike huckabee stole it from me, i'm the one who said i will never cut medicaid, medicare. $750 billion. even donald trump should be able to fill that just try the
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voters. just try them. >> i think nm by the way, we said it yesterday, url health care had be and of a be aed, you live out in the country, you think it's no, sir did. what is going to happen, funding is going to dry up units, a going done, for your mom, many because you're getting a $775 billion it will have a huge impact. rural health care will be devastated by this bill.
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off the coast of maine will be did have stated. the middle of the country will be devastated. kasie, i know want o come in. it's not going to even be close. people representing rural districts have to be concerned about that. are that's what use sean collins said. it's broader than even what you're saying. people doesn't realize and this is a policy point of this but people don't realize that medicaid pays for so many costs for nursing home. say you're a middle class-family, you are can but you have a parent you need to maybe ethat is all at risk potentially under this bill and that impacts. >> so everything we've said over the last several minute has been
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prelude to the trat thrnl beare care for by medicaid. but anyway, let break down some of these numbers a little bit more and show you just how ugly this actually is. the head line the. medicaid. when you look at people under the subsidies, the it slightly worse. the the house bill would have cost 3 million people employer insurance for fairly obscure reasons i won't get into right now but aren't actually that important. but then on the savings and the tax cut side, you can see there's $760 billion of tax cuts, going almost inirand such
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the like. and thea over $1 trillion. now, if you're looking for a way that mrk mmm being you'llly. one point is this deficit. >> what i don't understand, say you're in alabama and you're a conservative and you can go back and bag be hey, we can impacted by thos cuts. i know about alabama. this will hurt state like al bam and mississippi and west virginia the most. politically doesn't it cut both ways where you have some of trump's strongest supporting states will be the ones most devastated by these cuts? >> there's no question.
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affects american at the poor er of he could teak a couple month to do something to tuesday sup on uninsured in this country. can you see obamacare brought the uninsured rate all the way down from oaf 18% to under 10% and what both the senate and the house bill would do would be to bring it right back up given to the 18% range, right back up to roughly where it was before obamacare and amongst the highest it's been since back before we had medicare in and -- >> and if stays at 10%.
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>> it stays at 10. that's mps. -- i'm sorry, if you have a 26,3,500 income and you're of 3 yoors old. under blake you are, you would have paid $16,000 for your coverage. . senate does bring that down to 1,500. it it will 5 sh 8in of they'd be paying $16 thuts under the house pill. paid they'd be paying 20,500 under the -- >> so 40% of their income. >> who and get every angle
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possible. that really crystal identifies it coming up, law professor jonathan tur lirr says you may not like the. >> there also with us members of the two intel committee, from the senate side ainge us conditioning senator chris coons reacts to the new developments in syria and form are chief of staff to bush 43, andy card joins the same about the i pacts of tu-- impacts of these massiv cuts. we'll be right back. ♪ take the long way home they limit where you can earn bonus cash back to a few places
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so, mike, other than your keen observation if this coon bill passes, grandpa's coming home? >> gand pa and grandma are coming home to live on couch down stars. >> what does it man that my heart has gotten to this stage and that are just devastating. there's no attempt to hide the fact that donald trump is making every promise he made and that they will have as did pro porgate impact hurting older, middle-income americans. >> what's the rationale politically hrt is it and they all pull together to say first time in a lo who said something
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like "watch out fellas, we're going to pass anything to got to the tax reform bill plan." here, yeah, pass the whatever and get to tax reform act 2017 is in trouble! is that not it? because you talked bsh i'm going to say what this are. >> they go, oh, we got to get to the tax bill do, this, first. >> le sta that lowers corporate rates. i want corp prabut the pass the trum tax pran is just for the rich. we're going to be having this same conversations in three months about the tax bill and about how unbalanced it is
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cameras kept out of the briefing room, the president tweeting against a former president again randomly and out of control really and you have the and i can tell you the biggest picture for middle-in come if this bill passes, that issing about issue for person. >> and encredibly what trump has done is is he's made obamacare popular. obamacare is over 50% popular because people now understand the difference. >> do you know who else he's made popular? "w." have you soon that? "w"'s approval ratings are up with barack obama's now. he's making everybody popular. >> and now to this -- the u.s.
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supreme court has partially reinstated president trump's travel ban from six predominantly muslim countries, granting temporary entry to the country for those under certain qualifications, including people who have a close relative who is a u.s.cy specific and people who have job offers from are krourts have gone too far. they would have lef the company pleat been be president trump tweeted that is is very grateful -- >> oh, so he likes him now. let's bring in jonathan hurley. we talked about this before when there was fear and loathing and thumbing at the mouth and this was a muck limb ban, et cetera et cetera, et cetera.
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because of the way they redrafted this the second time, of course what donald trump hated, but they drafted it it in such a way where the supreme court and woof said this before, you've been saying it all long. they had no choice for the most part. this is despite donald trump's stupid tweets. the constitution gives the president more leeway on protecting boreds are and immigration than any other area. i would be shocked if this isn't a 6-3 or 7-2 decision when they come back in the fall. what about you? >> the court makes reference to what we discussed in the past they, he homosexual dprn it led to the three justices peel off pu.
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an exception your own, which is hardly deference but you kout really did say what you would have expected the lower courts to say, which is we don't second guess the president on national security issues of this kind. they could ultimately rule against hem what i think is rahal interesting is john roberts, both in this case and some other cases, you know, he was swiping pb and on this one he came up with kennedyin this of us are looking at heim because if condition that swng vote role will shift slightly it the right to john rob prrn jonathan, it willie. this is a skapd, you can be in
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the united states. so if they. what it will look like, the version we have right here? >> probably. and one of the interesting thanksgiving about the way this set out is there a curiosity in the order where the court said there was no. there pr so they did commence ten againing of the october terp. but the 90-day order will, pier september 27th, about five days from the beginning of the term. it's like planned obsolescence. they could have pushed and kasie hunt on the hill, any prize.
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trump does that republicans mott ainge shuts to at that about. i didn't spack to any senator directly where they stand on this but i think you're going to see a fairly typical breakdown of rab who say this may be something that woo need but others who say the reality is thank you very much. >> thank you. come. reasons next in the must reed pan pchb "morning joe" is coming right back.
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that was president ronald reagan speaking in 1982.
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but our next guest says reagan was mistaken and god knows the gop needs help now. let's bring in historian and senior fellow henry olsen. and also withes us pulitzer prize column u.s. and associate editor for "the washington post," eugene robinson. reagan connected with working class americans, it changed everything as far as the fdr coalition. what do you say that reagan could teach republicans now? >> he could teach republicans how to do all over again, that what you need to do is reach out to the sons and daughters of the fdr coalition and present a vision of government that includes an active support for a safety net. that's something that reagan always talked about. he talked about on the people
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who through no fault their own would deserve support, would get it. and we don't talk about that. >> right, we don't talk about that. conservatives always complained and david stockman wrote in his great book "the triumph of toll tiks -- politics," he said what aggravated us is how someone could go to reagan with a sad story and reagan said we're not going to do it. >> that was part of reagan's philosophy from the beginning, stockman said he's a conservative, he hates government and he always changes his mind. from the time reagan got involved in politics, he was a compassionate conservative. he said in 1961 no one should go without health care because of lack of funds. can you believe -- >> whoa, whoa, but he was against medicare. he thought it was socialized medicine. >> the reason is he said it went
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too far. he said there's what legitimate humanitarian need, 10% to 20% of soon why are citizens need help with health insurance, let's give it to them and he supported an alternative that did that. he opposed medicare because it gave the same benefits to the rich and poor alike. he supported federal aid and told afront friend he thought people should be put up if needed. >> in part you write "throughout his life reagan always cared more about saving lives than saving money. if he were convinced as senate bi bill critics argue that it would keep people from getting the care that they need, reagan would surely have found a solution. republicans have long suffered from the self-inflicted wound of misunderstanding ronald reagan.
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they have hindered their ability to govern when they did. the current debacle over health care reform is the latest example of there three-decade trend. >> it looks like republicans right now are following their own leaders in donald trump into the minority. i don't know how the house ever survives this. >> yeah, i don't see any republicans leaders right now who are of ronald reagan stature. and that's a fascinating point about reagan's views and what's missing right now is that element of humanity and compass that you're just not hearing, you're just not hearing from -- you didn't hear it in the house,
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you're not hearing it in the senate. and it's going to cost them. it's really going to cost them in 2018 if they don't cut this out. you know, you're always supposed to be acolytes of ronald reagan. >> this bill does shrink the size of government, which is one of the things that ronald reagan talked about, tax cuts and things like that. what do you think he would say if he were sitting in the oval office right now, if he were in donald trump's position, how would he be counseling mitch mcconnell to get this through? >> i think reagan would have taken a different approach from the outset. he would have led rather than followed and made sure the people that needed help got it first. he always talked about saving money as the second priority. the house and senate have done it exactly backwards. >> he would have led medicaid out of the conversation?
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>> he would have tried to cover people who need it. he would not have made this a budget cut billnd the gui under of health care. >> we do know that medicaid and medicare are not self-sustainable and there has to be a reform. so what type -- what does that reform look like? >> well, for medicare you could means test it, meaning right now to your point medicare covers all older people regardless of their income with the same coverage, you could have wealthier people not get as much coverage, you could raise taxes and fees in order to fully fund it, medicare is not fully funded. so there are fixes that you could make. you have to at some point address the overall cost of health care, how much they spend on it but that affects people up and down the income scale. but i guess my question to you is what's wrong with obamacare? it sound lis like it does exact
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what ronald reagan wanted, was it covered people who needed it. >> it put a one size fits all program in terms of what could be offered for all 50 states and then put a one size fits all program through other board that were meant to change how health care was delivered. reagan would never have supported that. >> that was designed to give people minimum health care, if you needed -- >> people weren't running around and they were trying to direct a federally directed health care system, which was what he opposed but what would ronald reagan would have supported is giving funds to the 50 states. >> it's not that he disagrees
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that obamacare needs a lot of improvemen improvements. >> obamacare was a clunky solution. what it's aiming at being is more like the situation system, which is similar to obamacare but, you know, switzerland is a bit different. the mandate to have insurance is much more strictly enforced and it's fine with swiss people, it's less fine with americans. ultimately we are going to get to a health systems that what universal coverage by it's a long and winding and painful road and meanwhile there are studies that indicate that it's costing lives. it does cost lives. it's very difficult to -- you can't do just a randomized trial and assign this group to have insurance and this group not to havin insurance, that'sin ethical. but the studies that have been
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conducted going back to 2009 pretty much indicate that people are dying from lack of insurance and that's just a scandalous situation for the united states of america. >> eugene robinson, we'll be reading your piece "is the gop trying to repeal and replace itself"? >> yes, it is. >> and we'll talk to independent senator angus king who is hearing directly from his voters. he joins us straight ahead on "morning joe."
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joe." casey hunt, talk about today if you can. we heard this is going to be a big week for health care. where are we right now on tuesday?
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what are you looking for today, and is it possible we may know by the end of the day that the republican health care plan is dead? >> i think that's the main question. i'm trying to figure out if by the close of business today, is there still a health care bill we're talking act. you know as well as anybody these things can die a thousand deaths and still come back to life. i'm curious to see if that will happen this week. i also think based on the reaction from the cbo score, unless there's a major shift here, i think this could by wednesday, we could know that this bill is not going forward. >> who are the two to three senators to look at? >> people that we're still -- there's people who have said they're right now going to vote against what's called the motion to proceed. that's the procedural vote to start debate on the bill. that's the language to look for over the course of the next day or so. the people we haven't heard from that a critical, lisa murkowski
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and ted cruz and mike lee. they seem to be currently willing to talk. if that were to change, if you were to see them come out and say no way. ben sass is another person. there's a couple conservatives that have been invited to have dinner with mike pence's residence. that is correct potentially shift it. coming up, senator angus king and a congressman who sit on intelligence committees on capitol hill. plus, senator chris kuntz and andy card. "morning joe" is coming right back. ♪ if you have moderate to severe plaque psoriasis,... isn't it time to let the real you shine through? maybe it's time for otezla (apremilast). otezla is not an injection or a cream.
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offer amendments, i would move to strike that. >> if the house bill was going to mean at 23 million, what's the senate bill? >> if you count on the president tov yo tov your back, you need to watch it. if you're looking from the political cover for the white house, i'm not sure they're going to give it to you. >> my goodness. >> be thrown under the bus. >> president trump celebrated the house health care bill before pub pickly slamming it. senator lindsey graham warning his colleagues the same thing could happen in the senate. of course it could. welcome back to "morning joe." >> we're looking at all of this happening in public. this is the republican party that has gotten a majority. they own washington. they own the house, the senate, the white house, they own the supreme court, and here you have one of the most important issues for americans being played out in public in the ugliest most unprofessional way, and one republican senator after another saying i don't think so.
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i was just telling willie in the break, this is the political equivalent of pickets charge. >> there seems to be an effort to hurt the party more than anything, but i don't understand where these -- they don't see. do they read? do they see what this president is doing? do they really trust him at this point? >> no. they don't. and as lindsey graham said, if you're expecting this guy to have your back, watch out. >> who would? >> especially after making the house members jump off the cliff on a bill that had a 14% favorable rating and then the president calls it mean to senators and then brags about it being mean and saying well, now, wait, barack obama said it was mean. i'm the one who said it was mean. i'm the one responsible for calling the house bill i forced everybody to vote for to be mean. if you're a senator, you'd be a fool to trust this guy. >> it's tuesday, june 27th. with us is mike barnicle, steve
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rattner, and andy card and yamiche alcindor. great to have you all on board this morning. andy, before we jump into health care, this ominous warning put out by the white house unexpectedly about syria, what questions do you have about that? >> have the state department, the defense department, the intelligence community been engaged in this for a little while? or is this the first time they're hearing about this as well? >> we have reports of the dod that no. >> that's the bizarre thing. this is a call to action or a threat of action without understanding if there's an underlying cause. >> there was a report yet that sitcom on the tip of the spear was caught off card by this. >> i find it bizarre, and i
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can't imagine that a statement like this would have gone out without having been cleared by defense, state, and the intelligence community. >> clearly it wasn't. >> are we hearing there is any possibility that anybody cleared it? >> i haven't heard. >> the argument from the white house after the fact when they were pushed on this, it said there's a deterrent. they say if it stops asaad, we've done our job. >> it's naive. it doesn't allow for an underlying sense of credibility that the problem even exists. it might be self stated. we're going in, and we should know and our allies should expect better from us. >> especially, this is coming from an administration where the president, both his candidate and president would repeatedly attack the obama administration for announcement of troop withdrawals. i'm not telling the enemy what
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we're doing. i like surprises. i want to keep them on their toes, and this basically, as you said, is we're coming. >> it's also unfair to the american people, because now our expectations are raised that something is going to happen. and there may be no justification for anything happening. >> talk to your secretary of defense first, mika. talk to james mattis first. let him talk to sitcom. let them come up with a plan and find out what you can say and what you cannot say. >> i think this is going to have consequences in a big way, especially with our allies. let's get to health care. but with time grinding down, the cbo's -- >> can we offer congratulations to andy? >> andy? >> well, andy did a lot of work. it's like the chinese. you ask the chinese, like a couple years ago how the french revolution was. was it good or bad thing? too early to tell.
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right? andy card was like johnny apple seed. he was just laying the seeds, doing the policy work. you know what i'm getting to. >> yeah. >> right now george w. bush is popular as barack obama. do you think that would have ever happened if andy wasn't just waiting patiently? what about that. george w. bush -- >> he's a good person, and he has demonstrated the capacity to lead during tough situations and is being recognized for it. and yes, i saw president bush the first, number 41, and he's doing great. >> that's fantastic. >> 4 3 is doing well. the bush family is just a great example of what it means to answer the call of noble service. >> you know why i think he's up in the polls? the painting. he's a good painter. >> okay. let's talk about the cbo's assessment of the senate health care plan. it's making it a lot harder for republicans to push it through. the white house wasted no time
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in the defense of the plan. tweeting out nearly two hours before the cbo score was released, quote, fact. when obama care was signed cbo estimated 23 million would be covered in 2017. they were off by 100%. only 10.3 million people are covered. for the record, we should put an x on that. if the estimates were off by 100%, then 0 people would be covered. 55% was the number they were looking for, but who cares about the truth when you're making a statement from the white house. >> the cbo found 22 million people fewer people would be covered. >> it would come back to $772 billion. the cbo forecast would not purchase private coverage since the senate bill would encourage
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them to purchase plans whose premiums and deductibles are too high. in the end the plan would reduce the deficit by about $320 billion. the senate majority whip said procedures could come as early as this afternoon. then a marathon vote on amendments could begin as early as thursday with final passage late that night. >> steve ratten, you tooks through charts that showed the cbo pointing out that it is older americans, middle income older americans that are going to be disproportionately hurt by this, and they're going to have to pay up to 40% of their salaries for health care. >> yeah. every american is going to be hurt. some of them worse than others, as you can see on this chart. lower income americans would go from $1700 to $6500. a middle income american going
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from $6800 to over 20$,000. as you say, joe, literally 40% of their income they would have to pay on health care. >> yamiche, talk about the challenge for republicans who vote for this. >> the challenge for republicans who vote for this is they come from states where people need this coverage. we're not talking about just people going to the doctor. we're talking about nursing homes and drug treatment centers and special needs children who use medicaid for -- to get services, and these are coming from states where people are very poor. you think about the most conservative states, i came back from mississippi and ohio, they're going to have to face voter who is will no early on who took away their health care. when we talk about the 15 million people not having health care next year, that's largely constituents of republicans saying how did you do this to me? i'm now lost on my health
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insurance and by the way, my family now who might be struggling with drug issues or might be dealing with special needs issues, we now are paying more for that. >> steve, this plan, the senate plan reduces medicaid spending by $772 billion over a decade. we've asked senator of senator in support plan what happens to the people covered by medicaid in a state like ohio when it's rolled back. the answer is they'll have more access to plans. we're going to create a marketplace where they have access. maybe that's true in the long term. in the short term, what happens to these people on medicaid? >> it's not true in the long term either. what happens is they lose their coverage. 15 million people lose their coverage under this medicaid proposal. what people like kasich, reasonable people have said as well, the states will have to come up with other ideas and ways to cover people. maybe they will a little bit. you're talking about a massive loss of funds.
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on top of all this, the trump budget proposes another cut in regular medicaid on top of this. they've been trying to walk that back a little and saying some of it's in here. if you took them at their word, they would cut total medicate spending by 50% over the next ten years. >> andy, when you were chief of staff, all of these issues and problems would be on your desk in terms of traffic into the oval office to see the president. you belong to a president that they've had seven years to come up with a potential replacement for obama care. what do you think your reaction would be today if you were sitting there trying to control traffic into the oval office about this horrendous day after day issue? >> first of all, the reality is obama care is not working as people thought it would. especially in a hand full of states where the exchanges have disappeared. there's no competition. part of obama care is not working, and you can't go back to obama care. >> why?
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>> can you repeal it? no. do you need to replace it? yes. but the work of -- >> or fix it in. >> or fix it. well, when it's fixed, it'll look very different. >> not necessarily -- no. >> unless you just put the subsidies in. >> no. you could fix obama care relatively easy. not enough healthy young people are signing up because there aren't strong enough penalties for them not to. if you got them into the pools, people would offer insurance. obama care could be fixed but there's no political consensus at the moment -- >> i'm criticizes both parties. the democrats haven't been willing to work to fix balm care, and the republicans haven't been working to replace obama care. they both want to do the same thing. they want to have a better system than obama care. somehow they have to find a way to find a room and play pick it. get locked in the room.
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nobody leaves until the white smoke goes up the chimney. >> you're schooled in this clearly. if you talk to doctors on the line, and nurses on the line every day in hospitals, costs, something that we've been talking about with regard to the legislation, is second to them. access to health care is first to them. what does this potential bill in the senate do for the elderly, the poor, and the truly ill in terms of access to health care? >> well, obviously it reduces it normal enormously. the people that come off, that's loss of access. they don't have the money to buy it. the medicaid money isn't available to pay for it, so they lose access. i think to the question of getting people in the room. the problem is the two parties are at polar opposites of what they think a health care plan should look like. and the problem in the democratic party at the moment is they're likely to adopt a single payer model as their
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standard bearer for the next cycle, and that's even further out in this direction. so we're very far apart between the parties. >> but they've also prevented the laboratories of democracy, the states from having the flexibility to address this problem with some kinds of incentives to see what would work. >> john thune told "the new york times" this is the best we can do to try to satisfy all the different perspectives in our conference. it's time to fish or cut bait. and there's another problem down the road. freedom caucus chairman mark meadows reportedly says the senate health care bill would not pass the house right now. losing significant conservatives for a number of organizations are weighing in on the senate gop health care legislation. anthem, one of the largest health insurers in the country is endorsing the bill. the medical association is criticizing the plan.
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mitch mcconnell, the ceo of the ama writes medicine has long operated under the reseptember of first do no harm. the draft legislation violates that. an organization says in part, this moment cannot pass without comment. the loss of affordable access for millions of people is simply unacceptable. these are real families who need and deserve health care. yamiche, i just wonder, i don't understand how anybody in washington can look at this with a straight face and vote for it. >> well, they can vote for it, because republicans understand that they can't just throw up their hands and say oh, we couldn't figure out how to do this, especially i would add because the republicans have been operating in a mode where they're republicans by name but they have so many differing ideals, you have on one side super conservatives that say we just need to repeal the entire
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thing. let's get rid of it and go back to what it was like before obama passes, and then we have more moderates like the two senators from -- the senator from alaska and senator from maine who are saying look, people need health care. it's part of their rights. we need to take care of our people, and all of this is issue and together they're all republicans. when you're thinking act how this bill is going to pass, you have people on both sides. as a reporter who has been out there in the states talking to people who don't have running water, talking to people who don't have e lick tristy or people who have sick kids, i don't understand how you're going to go back to your constituents and go into town halls and say, look, the government can't give your sick child health care. i'm sorry your nursing home had to close, but that's the way the government works. it's incredible to me that the republicans would be able to do this, but they also were voted in with the idea that they were going to repeal obama care. i mean, republicans took the house and the senate and then the presidency telling people
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they were taking away their health insurance. so in some ways they have a promise they've made to people. >> there's the moral question going back to voter who is benefit from it. imagine the political side if you're on the fence and you're a republican. the president is saying it's, quote, mean, you have the cbo saying 22 million people will be removed. the medical association says it's a violation of the creed and bishops saying it's unacceptable. that's what you're up against when you take the vote. >> why is this politically unfeasible to vote against? >> it's not. this is one of the easier bills to vote against. if you're a conservative, you can pick your reasons to vote against it and say it wasn't conservative enough. if you're a moderate republican you can into back to maine and alaska and say this bill was mean and it wasn't even conservative yrvand you have a president that as lindsey graham said, is not going to have your
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back. he bludgeoned the house members. sent steve bannon up to threaten the house members, vote for this or else. they jumped off the cliff and voted for it private sli saying they didn't think it was a good bill but they had to do it for the president, and now the president is saying it was a mean bill. why would any senator vote for this bill? >> you know better than most that leadership does not come from congress. leadership comes from the white house. and if the president is not leading and leading such that we will have their back, nothing is going to happen. and that's the situation we're in. people don't see the president as leading them and allowing them to make a tough vote. >> how would you -- >> therefore -- i think they have got to send something to a conference committee. i would favor the senate passing this bill having the house maybe
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not pass it. it then goes to a conference committee, and that's what people sit around a table and make things happen. >> they're talking about sending the bill to the house floor. >> i don't think they have the vote to do that. >> there's one other piece that we shouldn't lose sight of. all the cuts we've been talking about are being give tn to rich people as tax cuts. if you make 1 million you get a tax cut of $17,000. that's what a 64-year-old pays for his insurance. >> even if you want to take the morality part of it away, which i can't do, and i think most of us around the table can't do. even if you look at it cynically politically, it's one thing for donald trump to lie in tweets, and it's another thing for donald trump to lie about the size crowds. it's another thing for donald trump to attack nato allies. for most people in middle america, whatever, i don't care.
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i care about my health care. i care about getting my kids into a community college. you can lie about all those things. the one thing i don't think he can escape is saying i will not cut medicaid. i will make your health insurance better. that's the one thing they're going to see in the thirty-second commercials. i won't do it. i'm the only one up here. he said, i am the only republican up here who promised to never cut your medicaid, and now we're talking about 50% cuts if you look at this bill plus the overall budget. that's over $1 trillion. again, i have to underline this. if you live in a rural community and you think oh, it's only the poor and middle class people that are going to be impacted, i'm not going to be impacted here on my farm, yeah, you are. because hospice -- the hospice centers will be trashed. wings of hospitals in rural -- my brother worked in consulting
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hospitals just recently, and he said they were struggling already. >> the hospitals are struggling right now because obama care is not working well. so the status quo is not viable. >> let's say this too. health care is not working well. >> health care is not working. >> we spend more money per person than any country in the world. and we don't get the results back. >> and on the republican side, they're saying everyone should have more choices. is there a way to create more choices that are more affordable. >> yamiche, jump in. >> i think that -- what i'm struck by is the idea that republicans don't want to fix obama care. even the conversation we're having when you say obama care isn't working, at this point the republicans are the ones in charge. the republicans are the ones who for a couple years have said they didn't want to deal with
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this bill. they wanted to replace it, and now it seems as though the democrats and -- the republicans are turning to the democrats and saying you're not helping. the american people put republicans in charge and they're not doing what they said they were going to do. i think if they fail to pass health care and if they fail to fix health care, then republicans really have lost a lot of credibility with their voters. people are expecting republicans to not go onto tax reforms and not go onto infrastructure. they want new health care. >> i think that's right. >> i agree. the only thing worse than republicans not passing this health care reform bill is republicans passing this health care reform bill. because it becomes very real, and people are going to be locked out of their doctor's offices. you're going to see rural health care services slashed in the middle of what people call trumpland. it will be pretty devastating? >> it will be real. if people want the difference between facts and fiction, which i think the president himself has huge problems with, people
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will see the facts. andy card, yamiche alcindor, thank you. >> still ahead, we'll show you which claim made by president trump during the campaign that the white house now says was all just a big joke. that could be one of many. kristen welker grilled shawn pricer abo spicer about it. next, angus king joins us here on "morning joe." we'll be right back. a millie dresselhaus doll! happy birthday, sweetie! oh, millies. trick or treat! we're so glad to have you here. ♪ what if we treated great female scientists like they were stars?
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the future isn't silver suits anit's right now.s, think about it. we can push buttons and make cars appear out of thin air. find love anywhere. he's cute. and buy things from, well, everywhere. how? because our phones have evolved. so isn't it time our networks did too? introducing america's largest, most reliable 4g lte combined with the most wifi hotspots. it's a new kind of network. xfinity mobile. joining us from capitol hill, member of the senate intelligence committee independent senator angus king of maine. >> great to have you with us. a lot of concern about this bill
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from democrats. republicans seem to be having misgivings. you had a town hall meeting last night. what did you learn? >> i had the town hall meeting by phone sponsored by aarp. they tell me there were 10,000 people on the phone at one point. it was amazing. what i got was an outpouring of concern, will this affect me? how will this affect me? i have a disabled child, or i have a mom in a nursing home. unfortunately the answers i had to give them was it's not good news. >> answer that for us. why don't you tell our audience what we've been talking about which is how rural health care especially is going to be savaged if this bill passes. >> there's no question. maine is a largely rural state. i've met with a bunch of hospitals, and here's an important fact, and i'm sure this is true in many rural states. in eight of our 16 counties, the hospital is the largest
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employer. so that's number one. there are huge economic development or job implications of this. they all told me, number one, they're already hurting, and number two, this is going to be devastating. they're either going to have to shrink or close, and that's just the reality, and if you're an hour and a half or an hour from another hospital, that's a tremendous loss to the local community, and that's one of the risks that we have here. >> so from your perspective in washington, how would you describe the president's leadership on this? >> well, i think he's sort of stood on the sidelines and let these bills develop. he celebrated the house bill and then said it was mean. i don't think he's getting into the details of what these bills actually do, and somebody asked me the other day, what's your position on health care? i said it's like the president. i want everybody covered. i want low deductibles and no preexisting conditions. the problem is the bills he's supporting do none of those
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things, and this can't -- this is hard -- i think one of your commentators, i think andy card said it's hard to do something like this without presidential leadership. here's an interesting thing about this bill. have you seen a single person come out on the air on your program or anywhere else saying this is a good bill? >> no. >> it's total silence. there's nobody saying this is a good idea. >> senator king, it's willie geist. donald trump did pretty well in your state. it was close with hillary clinton. are you finding as you talk to people who voted for donald trump in maine that they're surprised or disappointed by the bill that's been put forward that's going to affect so many of their lives? >> i don't think so. it's often been observed that his support is so solid, it's so sort of visceral, that people aren't sort of -- they aren't saying well, because he didn't come through on that bill, we're not going to support him anymore. they identify with him that they feel that any attack on him is an attack on them. it's going to come through, because the other example is
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people think of medicaid as a kind of welfare program. 70% of the people in nursing homes in maine are on medicaid. i mean, that's -- we're talking about people bringing their parents home. and the states are going to have to make agonizing decisions between tax increases which really aren't sustainable in a rural state, or cutting off either children disabled people or the elderly. >> senator, to underline that, something else we've been saying this morning, can you explain to the viewers if you're middle class or upper middle class and you think medicaid cuts aren't going to impact you. can you explain how wrong that thinking is about how everybody's parents that are going to nursing homes, or everybody's children that need help in a local hospital are going to be hurt by this? >> well, absolutely. there are a lot of ways. number one, if the hospitals have to eat a lot of what they call uncompensated care, that gets translated into everyone else's insurance costs. that's number one.
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number two, if you have a disabled child, you may well be a middle income person, but your disabled child needs enormous support, and that's going to be under medicaid. the final piece is nursing homes. as i said, 70% of the people in nursing homes in maine are on medicaid, and about 50% of them have some level of dementia, and so we're talking about problems that strike families at all kinds of the income scale. so this is not just oh, those people over there are going to be cut, not me. >> senator, you mentioned that eight out of 16 counties in maine the hospitals, local hospitals are the biggest employers. if you're not driving wood down the road, you're working at a hospital. this is nearly universal, is it not in greater boston has a huge number of hospitals, huge number of people ployed in the hospitals. could you explain the threat to hospitals and the threat to access to care is posed by the
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current bill? >> well, the hospital administrators i've met, and i've had round tables at a bunch of rural hospitals as i mentioned. by the way, a lot of the local boards are republicans. but they've come forward and said this is going to be devastating. they just basically said we're going to have two choices. we're either going to have to shrink, provide less services or in some cases close. and in a rural state, again, when a local hospital closes, even if it's a small one, that means for virtually any kind of care, you're going to have to drive a long way. it's just the distances are very large. so it's a real -- it's going to be a significant loss of access and also jobs in the community. >> senator, steve rattner. let's turn for a second to the politics of all this. we talked a bit about the president, but you're going to have several dozen republican senators who are going to vote for this, whether it passes or not. you had a majority of house republicans who voted for this.
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given the 14% approval rating this bill has among the public, given the wreckage that is going to ensue, what are these people thinking politically? >> i don't understand it except that they want to check the box of we eliminated obama care. i think that's the political message, and i think their base, particularly in the gerrymandered districts where the primary is essentially the election, i think that's the message. and also we cut taxes. when you dig into it and find out whose taxes are being cut, they're not the working class people that generally have been supporting republicans in these past elections. so politically, i don't understand it, frankly. politically i think you're just handing the democrats a weapon to hit you over the head with, and a lot of it, the interesting thing about the congressional budget office report yesterday,
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15 million people will lose their coverage next year. this is not eight years from now, but next year. 15 million. and those people are going to be around to vote in 2018. >> senator, different topic. i want to ask you about the statement the white house put out yesterday suggesting that an attack by syria chemical attack on its own people was imminent. you sit on intel and armed services. did the white house talk to you or anyone in the senate before putting this statement out? >> certainly not to me. i don't know whether they were in touch with the leadership of the intelligence committees. they might have been, but i have not heard anything along those lines. we have an intelligence committee that is meeting this afternoon. i have no information on that. i do know from president obama's experience, you have to be careful when you draw red lines, and you have to be prepared to
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back it up. that was one of the things that undermine's president obama's credibility in the middle east. >> what should we read into that statement from the white house? what was the point of the statement? >> at the end, i recall it said if they do this, they'll pay a heavy price. that sounds like a red line, and it sounds like they're preparing to take action. a month or so august they did take action with a strike on the airport. that's a possibility, but syria is one of the most complicated situations. there are 12 00 opposition groups to asaad, and who is on which side? who do we want, and what happens if asaad goes? these are complicated situations. plus asaad has one of the best air defense systems in the world, so it's not like we can just fly in to syria and do something and not have some results or consequences. you got the russian air force there.
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it's a very dangerous situation. >> now, i think this story is going to get bigger. senator angus king, thank you very much. >> he brings up a great point. donald trump is drawing a red line. so barack obama had his red line. >> not just for syria. >> now donald trump has drawn a red line. if asaad does something, he has to act. >> it doesn't look like a lot of people were prepared for the statement. i think that's problematic. coming up a number of democrats are taking the obama administration to task for not doing enough against russia after the 2016 election. we'll ask congressman jim hines how he would punish moscow. he joins us just ahead. ♪
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still ahead this morning, senator chris coons says the president's travel ban -- >> guess what. >> yeah? >> erik bowling has a new book out. it's a great book. i haven't read it yet, but i'm going to. erik is a great guy. he was at the event the other night. >> yes.
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>> i danced with him. >> how did that go? >> i was outnumbered. >> hold on. do we have the tweet? >> what? >> we've got a surprise tweet about erik bowling eegs book nch. we'll show it to you when we come back. ♪ (vo) you can pass down a subaru forester. (dad) she's all yours. (vo) but you get to keep the memories. love. it's what makes a subaru, a subaru.
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leading the way to discover... to innovate... and to protect. hewlett packard enterprise. a national asset in supercomputing. yeah, and i can watch thee bgame with directv now.? oh, sorry, most broadcast and sports channels aren't included. and you can only stream on two devices at once. this is fun, we're having fun. yeah, we are. no, you're not jimmy. don't let directv now limit your entertainment.
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xfinity gives you more to stream to more screens. the media, to the american people, and to the indian people that the prime minister and i are world leaders in social media. we're believers. giving the citizens of our countries the opportunity to hear directly from their elected officials, and for us to hear directly from them. i guess it's worked very well in both cases. >> that was the president yesterday speaking alongside india's prime minister. joining us now, nbc news white house correspondent christkrist
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welker. connect the dots for us. >> i was there with him in the rose garden when we made the statements. a bit of a quip, but, it has serious koconsequences. his love were twitter has been on full display. he made a warning to bashar al assad on twitter. but mr. trump has been tweeting about everything else including arguing that democrats and his predecessor are responsible for not doing more to stop russia's mettling in the election. this morning the russia probe coming into more criticism. first reported from the washington post page gave five interviews with the fbi in march denying he acted as an intermediary between russia and the trump campaign. page says the fbi acknowledged
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he's a loyal american veteran slamming the clinton obama comey regime. page concedes he's never met the president. a potential question for the fbi. page has admitted to meeting russia's ambassador, kislyak. >> i'm not going to deny i talked with him. >> reporter: nbc confirmed kislyak will be leaving his post later this summer. u.s. officials say the move is unrelated to his meeting with trump aides during the campaign. this morning president trump trying to shift the focus back to his predecessor. >> if he had the information, why didn't he do something about it. >> reporter: unleashing a new tweet storm slamming president obama for not doing more and demanding an apology. this after one former official told "the washington post" the previous administration choked when it came to dealing with the russia cyber attacks. trump said president obama didn't choke, he colluded or
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obstructed. his accusation almost a year after then candidate trump egged russia on urging the country to find clinton clinton's e-mails? >> russia, if you're listening, i hope you're able to find the 30,000 e-mails that are missing. >> reporter: the white house is now trying to brush that aside. >> how can you accuse president obama of obstructing when he was egging russia on? >> he was joking at the time. >> reporter: and meanwhile president trump's son-in-law and top adviser has hired a high-powered criminal defense attorney to represent him in the russia probe. the move underscores the seriousness of this situation. lowell has represented john edwards and currently represents the new jersey senator in his corruption trial. we have a lot of questions about all of this. right now the briefing, no details about it. we're expected to learn more an it at 9:00 a.m. today according to public schedule.
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>> is there going to be a press briefing today, and what was the deal with the one yesterday with no cameras allowed no what's going on? >> it's a good question. in terms of today, the public schedule says more information about the briefing to come by 9:00 a.m. your guess is as good as mine. in terms of yesterday, no cameras were allowed. this is becoming the norm here at the white house. a lot of these briefings are off camera. sometimes we can use the audio. sometimes we can't. but this is a real break from tradition here at the white house. of course, these press briefings usually take place on a daily basis. they are usually on camera, and all on the record. and what has been so different about these briefings is they have been off camera. we can use the content and in some cases use the audio. president trump said he was going to be more transparent than president obama, and not having these briefings on camera certainly isn't a step toward more transparency.
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>> kristen welker, thank you. joining us from capitol hill, member of the select committee on intelligence. jim hines of connecticut, thank you for good morning. >> we can start with the russia investigation and the president's tweets. this is bizarre. i am feeling like there are dots that could be connected on a much higher level in terms of how this president is leading or dictating how he does his business. what's your biggest concern? >> well, i think my biggest concern is that he is out there with the prime minister of india talking about how important social media is. in the world of foreign policy, having a clear well thought out voice is really, really important, and, you know, we just have examples every day of how his tweeting -- remember his tweets on qatar. qatar is a country promoting terrorism. i'm not even sure he knew at the time. we have 11,000 service people in qatar at an air base that's
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pretty critical to us there. the secretary of state has a totally different message. now, you know, we wake up to this charge that president obama colluded, that he did nothing, which is completely false. this is certainly in the realm of foreign policy it's a very, very dangerous thing. especially as you guys were talking about earlier, at a time when the president has laid down a threat, has drawn a red line for military activity in syria. are we to believe the department of defense, or are we to believe tweets? i'm not sure the world knows. >> congressman, have you or to your knowledge have any member of the house intelligence committee received a heads-up on that notification that came out? >> i don't think so. i certainly did not. i read about it in the press like everybody else did late last night. i can't speak for my colleagues, but i don't think anybody around here knew that that was coming out. this is really critical because the president of the united states threatened a war, and as a member of congress, it is really, really important that the american people be reminded quite apart from the wisdom of drawing a red line in syria.
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we've seen that movie before. the american people be reminded that the president of the united states cannot go to war without congressional authorization unless we have been attacked, and we need to watch very, very carefully what happens in the coming days here because the president threatened to do just that. >> what can you tell us about the day to day operations within syria with regard to the united states forces given the fact that the russians have said that they're going to employ a no fly zone of their own? >> well, it really highlights how very dangerous the syrian battlefield is. for a couple of reasons. number one, as has been widely reported, we've got a lot of troops on the ground there now. actually engaged in combat as the press has report. apparently they're shooting down iranian drones, have shot down a syrian aircraft. who is behind the syrian aircraft? the russians are. quite apart from the fact that if you have people on the ground, one of them could get captured. we could see that individual in an orange jumpsuit, heaven forbid. number two, you know, we could find ourselves face-to-face gun
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to gun against the russians, and, you know, maybe that's the right decision, but it's not the right decision if congress hasn't deliberated it, if we haven't thought it through, if this is the product of the president's indigestion in an early morning tweet. it is too serious for it to happen that way. >> it's willie geist. you mentioned there is no evidence that president obama colluded with russia, as president trump accused him of in that tweet. there is in the washington post last week evidence that many people inside the obama administration thought that not enough was done. there's the famous now quote that we kind of choked coming from one unnamed official. are you disappointed in the reaction from the obama administration to russian meddling? >> well, i mean, let's dispense with this idea of collusion. >> no. >> that's just absurd. >> of not doing enough? >> i agree with that. the president tried. he mobilized the intelligence community. he reached out to putin. john brennan, head of the cia, called up to his counterpart in
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russia. there were the sanctions that were taken. >> but he didn't do enough, congressman, did he? >> in my opinion he didn't do enough. you know, putin is like a school yard bully. every once in a while that guy needs to get knocked down to understand that particularly in a realm in which we are better than he is and, by the way, that's most realms, but in the cyber realm, we are better than he is, and i always felt that, you know, guided by the idea of proportionality, which means that you hit back about as hard as roughly you've been hit, that we should have done more, and that could have taken a lot of forums. sadly, what i think russia sees today is a slap on the wrist and an unwillingness on the part of the united states to use is offensive capability to make sure anyone that attacks us as they did prior to election day is going to pay a pretty significant price for doing so. >> all right. congressman jim himes, thank you very much for coming on the show this morning. >> thank you. >> by the way, your dancing partner, eric, here's a tweet that donald trump actually -- >> he is a good dancer.
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>> donald trump retweeted this. the swamp out today. president trump has a copy. get yours here. the swamp. >> donald trump has been tweeting all morning. retweeting fox and friends. >> he is running the social media efforts for "fox and friends." four are auto five retweets. >> is your new social media director? >> it appears so. >> i'm glad he has a day job that keeps him busy. >> eric may run for senate in 2020 in the state of new jersey. >> come on now. >> still ahead, much more on the president seemingly drawing the red line on syria's use of chemical weapons. where have we heard that before? the white house is warning that apparently it caught many in the intel community caught on guard. >> now that they appear to be votes short of even bringing their health care overhaul plan to the senate floor, what do republicans think? we have our 8:00 a.m. our straight ahead.
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and far better. >> yes, premiums will be coming down. yes, deductibles will be coming down. >> you know, i have been talking about a plan with heart. i said add some money to it. a plan with heart. >> so there are promises, and then there's the math, and the cbo is out with its analysis of the senate health care plan, and it's a far cry from what the president pledged. >> i can't believe that. >> we'll get to all of that straight ahead. we have a lot to get to this morning. good morning, everyone. it's tuesday, june 27th. with us we have veteran columnist and msnbc contributor mike barnacle. >> it's not even close. >> no. >> it's like -- >> it's hideous. >> it's like he didn't -- >> let's steal his words. >> -- tell the truth on the campaign trail. >> you are shocked by that, but somebody -- >> somebody tried to sell you an apartment. >> this is one thing about -- he says the potential to be a defining moment in the senate because that vote on this bill
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if there is a vote on this bill will be a test of conscience and character for these senators. >> if by defining you mean any republican who votes for it a swing state is going to lose for the rest of their life. yes. >> morning joe economic analyst steve ratner is with us. >> if only we had someone that could break down the numbers. >> i'm going out looking for that person during the break. >> if only. >> nbc news capitol hill correspondent casey hunt joins us as well. this morning the cbo's assessment of the senate health care plan is making it that much harder for republicans to push it through. the non-partisan group found that over the next decade 22 million people fewer would be insured compared to obama care. that deficit savings with largely come on the back of medicaid and medicare spending. on the 15 million people who would no longer be on medicaid as a result of the law, the cbo
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forecast would not purchase private coverage since the senate bill would encourage them to purchase plans whose premiums and deductibles are too high or be attractive options to them. in the end the plan would reduce the deficit by about $320 billion. at first the cbo estimates premiums would go up, but by 2026 premiums could be 20% lower compared to obama care. still, that doesn't account for reductions in coverage for out of pocket costs and changes to subsidies. the report concluded that the senate plan would disproportionately impact older americans. their premiums would spike while increases would not be as bad for the middle aged. the white house responded by stating in part, "the cbo has kibtly proven it cannot accurately predict how health care legislation will impact insurance coverage." >> i call -- >> this is -- >> i call out the democrats when they -- when they trash the cbo
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because it didn't fit their political plans, and republicans should likewise be trashed. it's just outrageous. mike barnacle, there are senators like susan collins in maine. there's no way they can support this. there is no way that heller in nevada can support this. there is no way rob portman can support this bill. it's just -- it's -- it's -- it would be devastating. especially for seniors, lower income, middle income seniors. also donald trump just -- i mean, a man that says he is not going to cut medicaid? what do we have here? what, 775 billion dollars in cuts? >> basically. the outlines of this bill as have been provided and steve, of course, has much more information than we all have, but the people who need health care the most, the elderly, the poor, the truly ill are going to
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be without health care, without health care policies. i mean, that's the way it looks. this bill is basically immoral in its foundation, and i don't know that they have a vote, joe. you know better about that than i do. i don't know that this constitutes a vote. >> it's not just the mitch mcconnell has made it difficult for people to say yes. they've made it easy to say no. susan collins said i have one in five people in my state on medicaid. i simply cannot vote for that. that's 20% of my state. other people are negatively impacted by it as well. if you get two, three, four, five, all the people that benefitted from the medicaid expansion, which has its financial problems. it's there now where, to take it away from that many people in those stailtes -- >> first case, do they have the votes? >> not right now, no. look, the way things are shaping up here, and i think after the score came out later today, susan collins came out with those tweets, it's looking like we may never get to the process.
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mitch mcconnell may decide he wants to do a procedural vote to essentially say, hey, i want to pri th bring this up for a debate, and that may fail. i've been trying to wrap my head around what is the strategy here for mcconnell. there seems to be a sense that he does want to give some of his members an opportunity to say, hey, i voted against obama care. i voted to repeal obama care, like i promisesed that i would, but he doesn't necessarily want to drag this out into a lengthy process that would require them to take all kinds of other difficult votes on this. >> casey, does anybody believe that this is going to pass? i mean, you've got republican senators doing what they never do. winning in states like wisconsin and pennsylvania and ohio in presidential election years. i mean, that doesn't happen that much these days. how could those senators along with susan collins of maine vote for a bill like this? >> i honestly, joe, the sense is growing that they can't. i think starting, you know, from 24 hours ago i would have given you better odds that this bill
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was likely to pass. i think when it first came out, everybody thought it was more likely than not that mitch mcconnell was going to find a way. i think now the sense on capitol hill -- and i'm saying this today. this could be completely different, you know, by 5:00 this afternoon. it is much less likely that this is going to go through than it was to have gone through 24 hours ago. look, the point you make about the president and what he campaigned on still remains true, and mike huckabee was out there yesterday saying that the only thing that would be worse than not repeeling obama care is doing the wrong thing, and that this is not what president trump campaigned on. i think all of those factors are colliding. i think the question is just does this snow ball get big enough that it runs away from the majority leader? >> do you remember that tweet that donald trump had the middle of the campaign saying, oh, mike huckabee stole it from me. i'm the one that said i would never cut medicaid, never cut medicare. $750 billion. even donald trump should be able to figure that out. does he think -- if he thinks he
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can get away with a $750 billion lie, just try the voters. just try them. they will -- >> i think that's what might be where they draw the line. >> their health care? $750 billion? by the way, we said it yesterday, rural health care will be savaged. if you are rich and you live out in the country and you think that it's not going to impact you and your family, you're dead wrong because what's going to happen is funding is going to dry up so much outside of big cities and rural hospitals and rural communities that your hospitals are going to close wings. if you have nicu units, they're going down. hospice for your mom and your dad, your grandmother and grandfather. a lot of those centers are going to dry up, go away because you're getting a $775 billion cut in medicaid funding. that doesn't just impact the poor. if you are too selfish to worry about that, then worry about your own children and your own
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parents because it will have a huge impact on you too. rural health care will be devastated by this bill. off the coast of maine will be devastated. the middle of the country will be devastated, and casey, i know you want to comment, it's not even going to be close. the rural, i would guess people representing rural districts have to be concerned about that. >> that's what susan collins said. it's also broader than even what you are saying. people don't realize -- this is policy point of this, but people don't realize that medicaid pays for so many costs for nursing homes. any families -- say you're a middle class family, and you have your own premiums, but you have a parent who you need to take care of in a nursing home, the chances that those costs will be covered by medicaid because, you know, your elderly parent is no longer able to work. yes, maybe they get medicare that would take care of their everyday health costs, but if you have to have them take care of in a nursing home facility, that is all at risk potentially under this bill, and that
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impacts a much broader section of america than just what we're talking about. >> all right. everything we've said over the last several minutes has been prelude to the ratner charts. >> something like two-thirds of all nursing home costs are paid for by medicaid. 50% of all child births in america are paid for by medicaid. >> you said two-thirds? >> two-thirds of nursing home bills are paid for by medicaid. let's break down some of the numbers a little bit more and show you just how ugly this actually is. so, in fact, the headline number that the senate bill would cover -- it costs $22 million. when you look at medicaid and then look at the people under the subsidies, it actually is slightly worse than the house bill. the house bill would have cut 20 million people off the roles. the senate bill would cut the first 22 million. the difference is the house bill would have cost 3 million people, employer insurance, for fairly obscure reasons. they aren't actually that important. then on the savings and the tax
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cut side, you can see that there is $760 billion of tax cuts. these are going almost entirely to the rich by eliminating things like excess taxes on investment income and such like, and then the spending cuts in the senate bill are actually larger than they were on the house bill. they're over $1 trillion. almost $1.1 trillion. if you are looking for a way that mitch mcconnell has some maneuvering room here, actually, one point is this deficit. they're going to reduce the deficit by $321 billion. >> you know what i don't understand, though. let's say you are in alabama and you can go back and brag, hey, you know what, we cut the deficit $321 billion. states like alabama, states like west virginia, they're disproportionately impacted by those cuts. i know about alabama. disproportionately this will hurt states like alabama and mississippi and west virginia the most. politically doesn't it cut both ways where you have some of
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trump's strongest supporting states will be the ones most devastated by these cuts. >> there's no question. this affects typically poorer americans at the lower end of the income scale who are disproportionately located in trump states. the point i wanted make about the deficit is mcconnell has some maneuvering room. he could take a couple of hundred million dollars of that deficit reduction and try to do something for the moderates, try to do something for susan collins and, in effect, buy them off. let's take a look at the overall impact on uninsured in this country. you can see on this chart that obama care brought the uninsured rate all the way down from over 18% to under 10%. with both the senate and the house bill would do to bring it right back up again to the 18% range right back up to roughly where it was before obama care and amongst the highest it's been since back before we had medicaid and medicare fully in effect. it would be an unprecedented
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reversal of a social -- >> the dot line there, if it's cbo, it says it stays in effect. it stays at 10%. >> it stays at 10%. if obama care stays in effect. then lastly, you mentioned premiums for older people. let's take a look at what happens here. so if you are a younger person -- sorry. if you have a $26,500 income and you are 64 years old, under obama care you would have paid $1,700 for your coverage. under the house bill you would have paid $16,000 for your coverage. the senate bill does bring that down to $6,500. that's still four times what it would have been under the house bill. here's what happens to somebody who has a middle income. now, $56,800 is a middle income person. they would be paying $1,600 under obama care. they would be paying $16,000 under the house bill. they would need $20,000 -- 20,500 under the -- >> he would this be paying 40% of their income would go to
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health care. >> still ahead on "morning joe" republicans often cite ronald reagan in their push to reform health care, but the president was far more interested in saving lives than money. that's next on "morning i donjo" in the future, a nation's technology will determine its power. in its economy, in medicine, in science and in national security. one company designs and builds more supercomputers than any other. an american company. hewlett packard enterprise. leading the way to discover... to innovate... and to protect. hewlett packard enterprise. a national asset in supercomputing. somewhere along of self-discovery: a breakthrough. ♪ it's in our nature to need each other. ♪
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winning columnist, eugene robinson. you know reagan connected. you know this. with working class americans. it was one of the big paradigm shifts in modern american politics. it changed -- well, it changed everything as far as the fdr coalition. what do you say that reagan could teach republicans now? >> he could teach republicans how to do it all over again. what you need to do is reach out to the sons and daughters of the fdr coalition and present a vision of government that includes an active support for a safety net. that's something that reagan always talked about. he talked about only the people who through no fault of their own would deserve support. >> and -- >> we don't talk about that. >> we don't talk about that. conservatives always complained, and david stockman wrote in his great book "the triumph of politics" he said what always irritated us is somebody could go with reagan with a sad story about how a bill would impact an
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individual, and reagan would say, okay, well, we're not going to do it. let's work our way around it. >> stockman never understood that that was part of reagan's philosophy from the beginning. stockman said, oh, he is a conservative. he hates government, but he always changes his mind. in fact, from the minute reagan got involved in politics, he was a compassionate conservative. he said in 1961 that no one should go without health care for lack of funds. 1961. can you believe somebody in washington, a republican, saying that? >> whoa. but he was against medicare. he thought medicare was socialized medicine. that was 1965. >> the reason he was against medicare was he says it went too far. you go back, and you listen to his speeches like i did, and he said there's a legitimate humanitarian need. 10% to 20% of senior citizens need health insurance. let's give to it them. he supported an alternative that did that. he opposed medicare because it was going to give the same benefits to the rich and the poor alike, people who didn't need it were going to get it. he want supported federal aid,
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and he thought more money should be put up if it was needed to fund medical care for the people. >> you write in the washington post, here's how ronald reagan would fix the gop's health care mess. in part, you write this. throughout his life reagan always cared more about saving lives than saving money. if you were convinced as senate bill critics argue that this bill's medicaid changes will keep people from getting the care they need, reagan would surely have worked to find a solution. republicans have long suffered from the self-inflicted wound of misunderstanding ronald reagan by adopting the liberal character tour of him as an anti-government zellot. they have hindered their ability to govern when they did. the debacle over health care reform is the latest example of this three-decade trend. the gop should use the coming debate over an obama care replacement to finally rid themselves of this false idol and follow the real reagan into the promise land. >> it looks like republicans
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right now are following their own leaders and donald trump into the minority. i don't know how the house ever survives this. >> i don't see any republican leaders right now who are ronald reagan who are of ronald reagan's stature. you know, that's a fascinating point about reagan's views and what's missing right now is that element of humanity and compassion that you are just not hearing. you're just not hearing from -- you didn't hear it in the house. you're not hearing it in the senate. and it's going to cost them. it's about really going to cost them in 2018. if they don't cut this out and, you know, you're all supposed to be fans of ronald reagan. go back and read what he said and look at what he did. >> coming up on "morning joe" the white house catches multiple
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u.s. military officials off guard with its ominous warning on syria. >> it's not a good idea. >> no, it's not. >> talk to your secretary of defense. let's do that. >> things don't smell right. we'll talk to senator chris coons. "morning joe" is coming right back. we, the tv loving people, roooooaaar!!! want our whole house to be filled with entertainment. easy boy! but we don't want annual contracts and hardware. you scoundrel! we just want to stream live tv. and we want it for 10 dollars a month. (batman:raspy) wow. i'd like that in my house. it's a very big house. yeah, mine too. look at us. just two bros with sick houses. high five.
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>> last night the press secretary said the united states has identified potential preparations for another chemical weapons attack by the assad regime that would likely result in the mass murder of civilians, including innocent children. the activities are similar to preparations the regime made before its april 4th, 2017, chemical weapons attack. as we have previously stated, the united states is in syria to eliminate the islamic state of iraq and syria. if, however, mr. assad conducts another mass murder attack using chemical weapons, he and his military will pay a heavy price.
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u.n. ambassador nikki haley went further in a tweet saying "any further actions done to the people of syria will be blamed on assad, but also on russia and iran who supports him killing his own people. an administration official tells nbc news that the statement would not have been released if it wasn't believed that a chemical attack was imminent, but five u.s. defense military and intelligence officials told nbc news that they were caught off guard by the white house statement and could not even guess what a possible target would be. joining us now from capitol hill member of the foreign relations and judiciary committees, democratic senator chris coons of delaware. senator, what do you make of this? >> this was a surprising development, and i haven't been briefed on it, but it's a reminder of the ongoing turmoil and challenges in the middle east. we've got american forces on the grouped and in the air in the campaign against isis in the
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raka area and continuing operations against isis in mosul, in iraq. frankly, this threat of renewed action against assad for his potential use of chemical weapons again against his own people is a reminder that we are still waiting for a strategy from president trump about how we're going to conduct both the war against isis and whether he will conduct any further strikes against assad. >> mike. >> senator, given the fact that we know that the president of the united states is more or less removed himself from the chain of command about troop movements in afghanistan, handing them over to the discretion of secretary mattis and the military, what do we know if anything, about the chain of command behind this statement issued late last night? >> right. >> mike, i don't know where this statement exactly came from and where the decision to threaten assad with an additional attack came from. i did support the previous strike against assad's regime. after years of brutality against
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his own people, in violation of international norms, the continued use of chemical weapons. i'll remind you, shows that russia's actions in which they said they guaranteed that assad had given up all of his chemical weapons were not fully truthful. assad continues to brutalize and murder his own people with the support of sclad mere putin's russia and iran, but if we're going to take another action against assad, we need to know who is responsible for it. at the end of the day, mike, trump is the commander in chief, and he can't simply outsource important national security decisions like taking a strike that might release chemical weapons against an entire community. >> senator, it's willie geist. when the president of the united states says that syria will pay a heavy price if they launch this chemical attack, that sounds to most people like a red line, the kind that he criticized president obama for drawing and then once it was crossed, not doing anything about. what should an american reading that statement this morning believe? what should they think? is there an attack imminent from
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syria? >> do you believe that? >> well, it certainly suggests to me that they are preparing for another strike against assad and that this was designed to be a red line statement. that's exactly the sort of thing that can be irresponsible or even dangerous if you make a very bright line statement without having laid out a strategy for backing it up and without consulting with congressional leaders. i do think president trump would get support from many members of congress for striking assad's chemical weapons forces, but to do so would require careful planning and a clear strategy. i'll remind you, if you strike the bunkers where chemical weapons are stored, you risk releasing them into the whole atmosphere in the area and causing more harm than good. assad is obviously strongly backed by russia and we risk escalating the conflict in syria by taking a strike without the understanding and support of the american people. >> you just said a second ago, senator, that sounds to you like
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they're preparing for some kind of a launch, that the white house is preparing some some kind of an attack on syria. is that based on intelligence you have are auto just your reading of the statement? >> that's just my reading of the staemt. i have received no other briefing of any kind. >> are you comfortable with this statement, and nikki haley's tweet? >> imauto -- i continue to be uncomfortable with foreign policy decisions made by tweet, and frankly, candidate trump said that he would be unpredictable in foreign affairs, and president trump has certainly delivered on that. when i've gauchb to regional security conferences with the north atlantic community, i just returned from one with senator mccain in the asia pacific, i hear that our allies and our opponents are deeply unsettled by the unpredictability of you president trump. we here in congress are focused this week, especially in the senate, on the health care bill. this is a reminder that there's lots of other developments in the outside world, but this is the week where we either are or are not going to see republicans move forward. the bill that they developed in
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secret that would take away health care from 22 million americans. i suspect most americans watching this show this morning aren't expecting an escalation in the conflict in syria. >> senator, back to our policy in afghanistan. are you or any of your colleagues bothered by the president's apparent recusal from being the commander in chief over our afghanistan policy? >> yes. the commander in chief is responsible for making important strategic decisions. i understand a desire to allow combatant commanders to make week by week decisions, tactical decisions, but a decision that changes our trajectory in afghanistan by reinserting thousands of american troops and asking our vital nato allies to continue to shoulder the burden along side us of fighting in afghanistan, that's a commander in chief decision. we in the foreign relations committee both democrats and republicans have been asking for an administration witness to come forward and testify about
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their strategy in afghanistan and isis. that's the president's responsibility. >> so, senator, let's talk about something you just touched on that concerns a lot of people. millions of them in your state. that is this health care bill that's being cobbled together by republicans in the senate. based on what you know of it, based on what you have read and seen -- >> we're trying to get health care through the exchange where the affordable care act made it possible for them to get a quality affordable care for the first time. they would be at risk of losing access to health care. more importantly, the hundreds of thousands of delawareans who get their health insurance through their employer might face the loss of the consumer protections, the essential health benefits that are guaranteed through the aca. across the country, 150 million americans have higher quality insurance because of the aca.
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i think we don't talk about that enough. the preexisting condition protection, the ban on lifetime caps, the ban on discrimination based on gender, keeping your kids on health care through 26. that affects 150 million americans, and those would be swept away through a series of state waivers in the senate republican bill. >> senator, i want to play for you senator herono of hawaii speaking in the well of the senate last night. take a listen. >> my moment of reckoning came two months ago during a routine physical my doctor told me i have kidney cancer. it's a moment everyone dreads. tomorrow i'm going in for surgery to remove the lesion i have on my rib, but i'm going to be back as quickly as i can to keep up the fight against this mean, ugly bill. >> very stark personal terms, but the bill, it just -- i still come back to the fact that i don't understand how anybody could vote for this with a
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straight face. what is your kind of, i guess, mindset of the state of affairs on capitol hill right now? >> you know, i'm someone who tries very hard to be bipartisan, to work across the aisle, to move forward legislation. this is very hard. it is very hard. i sat on the floor behind senator herrono, a close friend, as she gave that speech yesterday. it's hard to look this right in the face and not be angry at my republican colleagues. i have an extended family member, my cousin's brother, who has been a quadriplegic for most of his adult life. his family could never afford his care. medicaid has made his care possible, has sustained his life for decades, and has given him a quality of life that could be impossible otherwise. every day i am mindful of the delawareans, of people i know across this country who rely on medicaid. the idea that we are going to see a bill come to the floor here in the senate that would
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cut hundreds of billions of dollars out of medicaid over the next decade when president trump promised on the campaign trail that he would not cut medicaid, this is a very important moment for the values of this country. who do we value? what do we value? that's what's on the floor this week. >> it's going to be a vote of conscience for everyone concerned, senator. on another issue before we let you go, the supreme court ruling yesterday allowing the president's travel ban to go forward in part. what is your take on that? >> well, i think it reflects the supreme court's long deference to the executive branch in matters of national security and immigration. i'm troubled by a number of the decisions that were released yesterday showing a conservative trend in the court, but i think on this particular issue we'll have to wait until oral argument and a full decision in the fall. >> all right. senator coons, thank you for being on the show this morning. appreciate it. >> thank you. still ahead this morning, it
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wasn't just the travel ban before the supreme court. there was another important ruling involving the separation of church and state. our legal analyst will explain that for us just ahead. first, her work meetings involve sitting down with the taliban, isis, and al qaeda. our fascinating conversation with the washington post journalist who for decades has covered the world's most dangerous terror groups and her new book details her mother harrowing moments. why she does it, and what she's learned along the way is next.
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>> she's covered the world's most dangerous terror groups. her new book details her more harrowing moments. i was told to come alone, the journey behind the lines of jihad. it's very, very good to have you on the show. >> thank you for being with us. the "new york times" says that
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your book explains what drives young people into the hands of isis recruiters, recruiters for other terrorist organizations. how so? >> i do speak to actually the isis recruiters, isis commanders, and even al qaeda or taliban recruiters and commanders, which gives me an inside view into how think work, what kind of messages they spread. >> what is the gist of their -- what is their leverage over these young souls? >> so when we talk about young souls we have to kwish -- we have to separate if we talk about people in the west or people in north africa or the middle east. the messaging is different depending on who they want to reach. >> how about the middle east? >> if he with talk about the middle east, they will talk about look how the west is planning to hand over the arab world to iranians, shia
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militias. they point out what happened in iraq after the fall of saddam hussein that shia militias ka imin and took ov-- came over an. i think they focus on what politicians say. if people call the travel ban a muslim ban, then that's something that isis or al qaeda are using in order to reach out to young men and women who grow up in the west. >> this is part reporting, part memoir. you actually said you wrote this to better understand yourself, your own identity. explain. >> what i was looking for answers as well after 9/11 when i met the wife of a firefighter. her husband died during the attacks, skps she asked why do they hate us so much? why did nobody explain to us that there are people out there who are hating us so much? you have to also not forget three of the four 9/11 pilots were radicalized in hamburg, germany.
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i had no idea how this could happen. >> also, middle class for the most part. well off. not struggling. that's what we in the west always say in our leaders will go, oh, these poor, poor young men have no opportunities. when you look at the hijackers that inflicted the -- most of them came from comfortable backgrounds. >> not only this, joe. i spoke to isis commanders who grew up in europe and who studied and spoke five laingsz fluently, so it's not -- it's absolutely right what you say. it's -- we would draw the wrong picture if we say those are all just poor people and they're drawn into the message because they're poor and they have no other chance. no. actually, what is happening very often and especially when i speak to people who came from a european or even american background is they talk about politics. the first couple of minutes they don't talk about religion at all. i realized and this was actually what i'm also explaining in the book that they are radicalizing religion. they use islam to excuse their
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gruesome, you know, crimes and killing, but i'm also trying to explain to people in the west that just because we are dropping bombs on raka at the moment, isis is not going to disappear. we have to actually focus much more on what is going on in that country. >> to that point and to the point that you were told to come alone, we are, the mainstream media, is now under assault in this country from this administration. your reporting, along with my friend don vanada, in being traing down and interviewing el masri, could you talk about the intri intricate asnd secretive web tht we're talking about here? >> they are using all kinds of social media as well. they are very strong on social media. in fact, if we look at the messaging isis is sending out at the moment, it's a totally
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different view that the different insights they are giving us from the so-called calafate. it makes it look like it's still fully functioning. that's one very big strength with which we should not underestimate. >> the danger to you as a reporter -- >> well, the danger to me as a reporter is, of course, there are no guarantees. when i'm told to come alone to this meeting, i mean, frankly speaking, i don't know if i will make it out alive. there's always a chance. i mentioned the meeting with the isis recruiter or the isis commander. there's always a chance that you ask the wrong question. they don't trust any of us fully. they see us as -- to a certain extent, also fake news. i mean, it's to a certain extent funny when i see that president trump is using the same kind of description for us as mainstream media as isis or al qaeda is doing because they also believe we are fake news.
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once -- >> i would like to emphasize what you just said because that's really important. >> it is very sad. it is very sad because, you know, once i convince them to grant interview, there's still no guarantee that i will make it out alive, but i wrote this book, and i took the risks because the wife of this firefighter actually said we have to tell the readers why people are hating them, and this is the only way of trying to find solutions. >> well, you chose to report this book in an effort to get the truth out there at a great personal risk, and for that i think that we all owe you such a debt for doing this kind of journalism that really matters. i read the epilog to the book, and your family story hit home with the terror attack in munich. could you talk a little bit about that? >> well, this was certainly one of those moments. you know, i was saying as a
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reporter -- everybody thought maybe it's somehow inspired by isis. >> parents or -- husband during
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9/11. i could feel the pain of the mothers in iraq who were telling me they lost their kids. it was certainly one of the moments where i understood why our reporting is also so important. that's why i emphasize -- the president said a lot of things about it, and we should not underestimate that those words are being used by isis. >> one of the things that we're very skilled at as a nation is killing. we're really good at it. less so killing an ideology. ten years from now will we still be at this at the level we're at it now? your estimation? >> i'm afraid so, yes. you know, there's bin laden's son that's coming up as a new and rising star inside al qaeda,
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and isis understood from the beginning. it's one of the chamters -- it's mentioned in one of the chapters, this isis commander said we know there will be a time when they will hit us with fire, but we will hit them fire but we will hit them back with fire. and the problem is they already have spread. they have cells not only i mean in ear ya and iraq but also in libya and other places. the so-called arab spring has opened up a totally new universe for them in order to place people in there and to recruit more people. but also in europe or in the u.s., unfortunately, they are trying to target disenfranchised young men and women who believe that they no longer belong to a society, which also has to do with how politicians talk about islam. >> i would argue this is one of the most important interviews we've ever done on "morning joe," if you listen to every word and you should listen again online and get the book. "i was told to come alone: my journey behind the lines of
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jihad." thank you so much for coming on the show this morning. thank you for what you do. >> thank you. >> "morning joe" is coming right back. and it's also a story about people. people who rely on us every day to deliver their dreams they're handing us more than mail they're handing us their business and while we make more e-commerce deliveries to homes than anyone else in the country, we never forget... that your business is our business the united states postal service. priority: you ♪ can we at least analyze customer can we push the offer online? legacy technology can handcuff any company. but "yes" is here. you're saying the new app will go live monday? yeah. with help from hpe, we can finally work the way we want to. with the right mix of hybrid it, everything computes. "how to win at business." step one: point decisively with the arm of your glasses. abracadabra. the stage is yours. step two: choose la quinta.
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...stop further joint damage in many adults. humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal infections and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened, as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure. before treatment, get tested for tb. tell your doctor if you've been to areas... ...where certain fungal infections are common and if you've had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections, or have flulike symptoms or sores. don't start humira if you have an infection. talk to your doctor and visit humira.com this is humira at work. so the war in syria, our dod may not know about it but very exciting news, donald trump, president of the united states, has a new job. he's now working at news. >> well, he's really deeply, deeply engrossed in the comings
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and goings of cable news. his latest tweet, "so they caught fake news cnn cold, but what about nbc, cbs, and abc? what about the failing "new york times" and "washington post"? they are all fake news!" >> actually, they're not. >> one of nine tweets this morning. >> nine tweets, all media tweets. >> from the statement the white house put out last night? it doesn't seem like the same person. >> di his own red line. >> malt facetted personality. >> can you believe any other president would -- if you put out a threatening remark about syria this morning everybody -- >> red line. >> -- the d o d over there. >> this guy is tweeting about kale news. >> that's a very small person. >> i work in cable news and i can tell you that's sad, pathetic. think bigger. >> almost might be whipping votes on the defining health care legislation. >> destroying the lives of the base.
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>> the worst health care strategy ever and he's talking about -- >> keep on being small. word -- s now, msnbc legal >> tiny. really little by doing this. >> it's small thinking. >> little. little. did you see that "saturday night live" kristin wave where she had the -- >> from the lawrence welk show. >> one of the greatest skits ever. i couldn't breathe. >> i'm not sure he's comfortable being here anymore. >> tiny little hands. >> ari is here. ari melber. >> what happened in the supreme court yesterday? >> start with the travel ban. go. >> the supreme court basically said part of the travel ban will still be blocked but they lifted the blockage on the other part with regard to foreign nationals. >> you're not surprised, are you? >> we've said many times the immigration power is second only to the war making power for the president. it was always expected that the supreme court would take a hard look at this. i think they have tried to split the baby. you see the standard there, if you have a close relative who is
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a citizen or involved with a college or pab have a job offer, this ban does not apply to you. but if you're abroad you have no other rights. >> they'll rehear it next year. the president's probably going to get his way. can't even damage his own -- >> travel ban. >> he's got so much power in that area. some church and state issues, including the whole wedding cake issue is going to be heard by the court. >> one, they took this wedding cake case. they had put this off ten times. i don't know if you guys ever have a conversation that you're not looking forward to and you sort of just delay, put it off. >> yes. >> anyone. >> all of us. okay. i'm sorry. that was uncomfortable. go ahead. >> over ten different times they put off whether they were going to take this case. obviously there was some tension on the court. yesterday, the last day, they said we'll take it. in colorado, a baker said i don't want to bake a cake for someone getting same sex
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married. the couple said this is all right to participate in the marketplace and other arenas if you say you don't want to serve someone because of their race or gender that doesn't cut much ice each if it is a religious view. this goes to a deeper question. you like deep questions. >> deep thoughts. >> we talk about our corporation's people, this goes to that other question. do corporations have a soul and do we want to go down this road. religious views are very important and we respect them, but corporations can say because of their soul they fete exempt from rules otherwise they have to follow. >> the separation of church and state issue they tried to address in the playground case. >> missouri. >> this is a great case. trinity lutheran basically is a church that got a subsidy through government money to repurpose the flooring of a playground that kids play on. and the question was can they get that government money or not. and it had been knocked down to lower court. >> all kids can play on this playground or just the church? >> that's a great question. i think the church would say
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they're pretty open although i think primarily the benefit was for their own church members. but basically the court said 7-2, so a wide majority, hey, you don't want to be funding proselytizing but this is okay, the government money here is for kids to play on a playground. let's not overdo the line of church and state. as with all legal questions, it becomes a question about church and state, do you go too far, a slippery slope. but good example, we have so many divisive issues in washington, a large majority of the court said we can have a commonsense thing where the government doesn't buy bibles but if everyone was going to get this benefit, redoing the playground, why not the church too? >> real quick. is justice kennedy going to retire? >> i haven't heard any indication he's going anywhere. >> all right, ari melber. >> the most interesting thing is gorsuch was on the hard power, pro trump executive dissent in the travel ban case. >> thank you very much. >> that strong handshake where he yanked him, the elbow.
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>> had tommy john surgery. >> he did. first guy ever getting on the supreme court that had to take a couple -- had to go to dr. andrews, on disabled list right away. tommy john surgery. >> presidential power is body language. >> that's overcompensating. that does it for thus morning. >> like one of moez hummers. the guys that would -- >> that's what i was alluding to but i was trying not to get that specific. i think they get the point. stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage. right now. >> thanks so much, mika. good morning. i'm stephanie ruhle with a lot to tackle. first off, life support. opposition to the health care bill hardening among republicans. >> obviously, it's not food news. >> it makes me more concerned. >> after the nonpartisan cbo says 22 million americans will lose health care with their bill.

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